Pakistan To Give Up Over Kashmir?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has suggested Pakistan would give up its claim over disputed Kashmir - Is this acceptable??

What would the reaction be by the pakistanis or the Kashmiris?

Should india have claim over it? or should pakistan stick to thier guns (as it were) Personally i think india should give in!!

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has suggested Pakistan would give up its claim over disputed Kashmir if India accepted his peace proposals.
Gen Musharraf called for a phased withdrawal of troops in the region and self-governance for Kashmiris.

India responded, saying its position was that the map could not be redrawn but borders could be made irrelevant.

Both nations claim Kashmir in its entirety. It has sparked two of their three wars since independence in 1947.

Gen Musharraf told NDTV that he had a "four-point solution" to ending the impasse in the disputed region

Soure BBC website

[Karimeldib]

Even if Musharaf and all of Pakistan gave up on Kashmir, the rest of the Muslim world can't not. Muslim land is Muslim land and we will not give up until the last one of us dies protecting it..

[chacha_jalebi]

personally i think kashmir isnt neither pakistans or indias, the kashmiri people should set up their own country :D and that way there will be another pakistani country in the world :p

but knowin india they will not give up kashmir, god knows why, because its a muslim state, the majority of people wanna be with pakistan or be free, but india still wants to hold on, the same thing india did with the sikhs in panjab!

india knows that if they give kashmir to the muslims, then the sikhs are gona say give us panjab, then the tamils gona say giv us tamil land :p so india knows it will jus split up :p so thats why probly they dont wan giv it up! but inshallah 1 day if they dont giv it up willingly, then inshallah they will be forced to give it up :D:D:D:D:D

[IzakHalevas]

Muslim land is Muslim land

What makes Kashmir muslim land? Please elaborate on how the area known as "Kashmir" is Muslim land. Kashmir was once a Buddhist seat of learning, perhaps with the Sarvāstivādan school dominating. East and Central Asian Buddhist monks are recorded as having visited the kingdom. Islam first began to become a dominant religion in the region in the 13th century, which was around the same time the Crusaders were occuring, therefore, if the land became "muslim land" because Islam entered kashmir in the 13th century, then are you not infering that if the crusaders still resided in Jerusalem today, since the 13th century, then the land would be considered "christian land"?

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[chacha_jalebi]

^^ well the majority of people there are muslim, so its a muslim land, :D so it is a muslim land

[IzakHalevas]

^^ well the majority of people there are muslim, so its a muslim land, :D so it is a muslim land

Alright then, so by that logic are you saying that since the majority of people in Israel are Jewish that it is by your definition "Jewish Land". I will happily agree with that. Also, by your logic do you define the city of Jerusalem, who since 1840 has had a majority Jewish population, "Jewish Land" as well. Not to mention the significant Jewish presence in the land that had existed before Mohammad was born, and the Quran written.

But I am getting way off topic, so I should probably steer away from this, and recognize that you have made a good point by saying that Kashmir is "Muslim Land", but I just ask you to take into account that it would be hypocritical to not hold that opinion in other realms of politics and conflict.

Peace be upon you.

[chacha_jalebi]

Alright then, so by that logic are you saying that since the majority of people in Israel are Jewish that it is by your definition "Jewish Land". I will happily agree with that. Also, by your logic do you define the city of Jerusalem, who since 1840 has had a majority Jewish population, "Jewish Land" as well. Not to mention the significant Jewish presence in the land that had existed before Mohammad was born, and the Quran written.

But I am getting way off topic, so I should probably steer away from this, and recognize that you have made a good point by saying that Kashmir is "Muslim Land", but I just ask you to take into account that it would be hypocritical to not hold that opinion in other realms of politics and conflict.

Peace be upon you.

woo hoo, i never was being hypocritical :D, the majority of people in US & UK are christians, thus in my view its a christian land, and the same for israel, currently the majority are jewish so its a jewish land :D


whereas jerusalem i would say is currently a muslim land, nevertheless all the lands belong to Allah (swt) :D

[AvarAllahNoor]

What makes Kashmir muslim land? Please elaborate on how the area known as "Kashmir" is Muslim land. Kashmir was once a Buddhist seat of learning, perhaps with the Sarvāstivādan school dominating. East and Central Asian Buddhist monks are recorded as having visited the kingdom. Islam first began to become a dominant religion in the region in the 13th century, which was around the same time the Crusaders were occuring, therefore, if the land became "muslim land" because Islam entered kashmir in the 13th century, then are you not infering that if the crusaders still resided in Jerusalem today, since the 13th century, then the land would be considered "christian land"?

Jammu and Kashmir contain an approximately 70% Muslim majority. The rest of the population are Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu, and a very small number of Jews to the north, said to be descended from Israelites who migrated along the Silk Route.

The state of Jammu and Kashmir was one of a number of Indian states that recognised British paramountcy. Prior to the withdrawal of the British from India, the state came under pressure from both India and Pakistan to join them. The Maharaja of Kashmir, Hari Singh wanted to remain independent and tried to delay the issue. However at the time of British withdrawal the state was invaded by a concentrated force of Pro-Pakistan Tribals from North West Frontier Province (NWFP) and regular Pakistani soldiers. This forced him to accede Kashmir to India who promptly rushed into Kashmir and thus the war had started. The accession is still questioned by the Pakistanis. The Pakistani claim is that since the majority of the Kashmiri population is Muslim, the princely state should have been given to Pakistan. The Indian claim arises from both Maharaja Hari Singh's accession, as had happened with all of the other Indian states, and also that 48% of Kashmir was Sikh, Buddhist and Hindu.

Just as the Panjab once belonged to Buddhists, after hindus decided to bring them into the fold of Hinduism, they left. So in theory what Chaca says is correct. If Pakistan gets Kashmir, it would open the door to Sikhs getting Khalistan (Panjab) which rightfully belongs to the Sikhs, as that is OUR homeland which the indians refuse to return!!:grumbling

[IzakHalevas]

whereas jerusalem i would say is currently a muslim land

Why? According to your logic it is Jewish. Jerusalem as of May 2006 census is 65% Jewish 32% Muslim, and 3% Christian.

But we are off topic.

Jammu and Kashmir contain an approximately 70% Muslim majority. The rest of the population are Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu, and a very small number of Jews to the north, said to be descended from Israelites who migrated along the Silk Route.

The state of Jammu and Kashmir was one of a number of Indian states that recognised British paramountcy. Prior to the withdrawal of the British from India, the state came under pressure from both India and Pakistan to join them. The Maharaja of Kashmir, Hari Singh wanted to remain independent and tried to delay the issue. However at the time of British withdrawal the state was invaded by a concentrated force of Pro-Pakistan Tribals from North West Frontier Province (NWFP) and regular Pakistani soldiers. This forced him to accede Kashmir to India who promptly rushed into Kashmir and thus the war had started. The accession is still questioned by the Pakistanis. The Pakistani claim is that since the majority of the Kashmiri population is Muslim, the princely state should have been given to Pakistan. The Indian claim arises from both Maharaja Hari Singh's accession, as had happened with all of the other Indian states, and also that 48% of Kashmir was Sikh, Buddhist and Hindu.

Just as the Panjab once belonged to Buddhists, after hindus decided to bring them into the fold of Hinduism, they left. So in theory what Chaca says is correct. If Pakistan gets Kashmir, it would open the door to Sikhs getting Khalistan (Panjab) which rightfully belongs to the Sikhs, as that is OUR homeland which the indians refuse to return!!

Good point. If India gave up Kashmir, then many parts of their country with religious minorities would begin claiming there need for an independant nation.

[snakelegs]

i think if i were kashmiri i would not want to be part of either pakistan or india.
frankly, i don't think either side will let go. both countries have people that would love to be independent and break away, so if kashir got independence, this would bolster these movements.
also, most importantly kashmir is a Water Issue and i don't think either side would willingly let go.
but i would love to be wrong. just think of what all pakistan and india could do with even some of the money they waste on this nonesense.....
actually, i see no reason why the 2 countries cannot just put kashmir on hold and go ahead and soften their borders for mutual benefit - establish a sort of defacto peace.
well, i'm dreaming again....

[Goku]

Salam

What is Musarraf thinking? He is letting the Muslims of Kashmir down. India has no claim to Kashmir, India got about 75% of the divided land in 1947, Pakistan got about 25%.

Kashmir is majority Muslim. I think Kashmir should either be a part of Pakistan wholly, or it should be an independant state. As far as I know, the Muslims of Kashmir wish to join Pakistan, and the majority are Muslim. Dont waste the Muslim blood of Lashkar-e-Toba and Jash-e-Muhammad and other freedom fighters fighting for the people of Kashmir against Indian military rule.

May Allah SWT bless the people of Kashmir and join the entire Kashmiri region with Pakistan in Muslim Brotherhood, Ameen.

[Trumble]

[B]Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has suggested Pakistan would give up its claim over disputed Kashmir - Is this acceptable??

I think it needs to be put in context first.

NEW DELHI Dec 5, 2006 (AP)— Pakistan President Gen. Pervez Musharraf said Tuesday he is willing to give up its claim to all of Kashmir if India agrees that the disputed Himalayan region should become self-governing and largely autonomous.

Musharraf's office later sought to clarify the president's remarks, saying his offer was not unilateral but contingent on India doing the same. It also claimed Musharraf's remarks had been "twisted" out of context.

Musharraf said Pakistan would agree to predominantly Muslim Kashmir becoming an autonomous region, still technically divided between the two countries but with a porous border, and loosely administered by both nations, independent NDTV reported. His proposal also includes a staggered withdrawal of troops from the heavily militarized region, NDTV said.

Asked by NDTV, "So you are prepared to give up your claim to Kashmir?" Musharraf responded: "We will have to, yes, if this solution comes up."

ABC

Musharraf is offering to abandon the Pakistani claim if India does the same, with Kashmir becoming, to all intents and purposes, self-governing. I would have thought most Kashmiris (as opposed to just muslims) would consider that an acceptable solution?

I agree that talk of 'muslim land' is nonsense (other people live there, too, minority or not), but even if you accept that idea there is a big difference between 'muslim land' and 'Pakistani land'.

[chacha_jalebi]

Why? According to your logic it is Jewish. Jerusalem as of May 2006 census is 65% Jewish 32% Muslim, and 3% Christian.

oh :D so currently its jewish then :D:D:D

[Woodrow]

I may have overlooked something. But, does anybody know what the People of Kashmir want? Perhaps that should be the first thing to consider before deciding what we think should be done.

[AvarAllahNoor]

I may have overlooked something. But, does anybody know what the People of Kashmir want? Perhaps that should be the first thing to consider before deciding what we think should be done.

They want independence from both pakistan and india - It should be granted.

By no means is india a democratic country as it claims to be so on the world stage! :heated:

[AHMED_GUREY]

a Region will not develop when multiple armies roam the streets for a long period of time

there around a million soldiers (Indian and Pakistani combined) in or around Kashmir

i hope the Kashmiri muslim brothers and sisters and non muslims there get the space to breath and prosper insha-allah

[IzakHalevas]

May I ask what will happen to the 30% non-Muslim "idol worshipers" in Indian Kashmir if it becomes a country.

I'm just curious and I pass no judgments.

[AvarAllahNoor]

May I ask what will happen to the 30% non-Muslim "idol worshipers" in Indian Kashmir if it becomes a country.

I'm just curious and I pass no judgments.

They live in peace and don't want either country to govern them - The trouble is caused by both factions and not the Kashmiri people!

Gur Fateh:)

[Bittersteel]

Kashmiris wanted to be with Pakistan(being Muslism and all ) but its Hindu Raja swore allegiance to the Union of India.hence it became divided into two.

If I was Musharraf I would have never given up Kashmir or ever thought about it.

[Goku]

I may have overlooked something. But, does anybody know what the People of Kashmir want? Perhaps that should be the first thing to consider before deciding what we think should be done.

:sl:

Apparently, the Kashmiri people were to vote on what happens to their state after the creation of Pakistan and India. But the Indians didnt allow that to happen, on 2 occasions, that is because the people of Kashmir would've voted to either join Pakistan or be independant.

Emir Aziz:

Kashmiris wanted to be with Pakistan(being Muslism and all ) but its Hindu Raja swore allegiance to the Union of India.hence it became divided into two.

If I was Musharraf I would have never given up Kashmir or ever thought about it.

:sl:

According to the latter article, Musharraf is ready to give up claims to Kashmir only if India is ready to do the same, which is much better than letting India have free way into Kashmir and thus wreak havoc on innocent Kashmiri lives. Kashmir as an independant state is a good idea, there will be another Muslim State in the region. Either that, or join Pakistan with Azad Kashmir. Azad Kashmir, which means free Kashmir (freedom from Indian rule :) ), is the name given to Pakistan controlled Kashmir.

[Sis786]

Im not up for war and all that but this is just DISGUCTING. I mean after all those lives that have been taken due to India's and Pakistans stubborness over a piece of land Mushraf says "we will give it up" I mean for goodness sakes think about the number of people that have died and then he makes it look like a game.

If he does the war will always continue whetehr it is betwen the Hindus and Muslims or the Pakistani side of Kashmir and Indian Side.

To resolve this Kashmir should be a seperate state and not under Indias or Pakistans control

[Rabiyal]

interesting issue, and a nice thread!!! truely a great response from every religion's side.

But I don't think it really matter what we will say or think. I am married to a Kashmiri, but he doesn't care what happens to it. Since he's not living there.

Simply put, If you don't live there in Kashmir, then you don't have a right to an opinion. Only because you are not the ones who are suffering. If Musharuf said what he said, I am sure there's reason for it. All I know whatever decision he has made in past has ALWAYS benefited Pakistan. So am sure this decision of his will also be good for PAKISTAN.

Plus I don't know if you guys have been watching, there's something going on between China and Pakistan, something big, who knows what it is, but I am sure Kashmir has something to do with it also......maybe!!!

neways lets focus on something else here rather than claiming whats our and what's not. When we are not the ones suffering from the desicion. :)

[AbdulHassanAmir]

May I ask what will happen to the 30% non-Muslim "idol worshipers" in Indian Kashmir if it becomes a country.

I'm just curious and I pass no judgments.

The same thing that happen to the 80% non-jewish people of palestine.

[IzakHalevas]

The same thing that happen to the 80% non-jewish people of palestine.

The 80% non-Jews who lived there as a result of the Muslims Christian and Pagan conquerers who attacked Israel and expeled the Jews and limited our freedom to worship when Jews now allow Muslims that freedom 100x more than they allowed of Jews?

[AvarAllahNoor]

The 80% non-Jews who lived there as a result of the Muslims Christian and Pagan conquerers who attacked Israel and expeled the Jews and limited our freedom to worship when Jews now allow Muslims that freedom 100x more than they allowed of Jews?

Sat Shri Akal (God is Truth)

That's great and long may it continue. But Kashmir will be independent and they won't want to cause hostilty amongst the civilians, by what i think you're implying of restrictions on idol worshipers etc.

[IzakHalevas]

Sat Shri Akal (God is Truth)

That's great and long may it continue. But Kashmir will be independent and they won't want to cause hostilty amongst the civilians, by what i think you're implying of restrictions on idol worshipers etc.

In a Shairah run country of course their would be restrictions on idol worshipers such as Hindu's. If I am not mistaken, they do not even enjoy the lowly "dhimmi" status.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

[QUOTE=IzakHalevas;588388]Why? According to your logic it is Jewish. Jerusalem as of May 2006 census is 65% Jewish 32% Muslim, and 3% Christian.



:sl: brothers and sisters.
yeah, the only reason why there are more jews than muslims in Jerusalem is because all the jews slaughtered them (muslims)

[snakelegs]

what happened to pakistan and the kashmir issue?

[AvarAllahNoor]

what happened to pakistan and the kashmir issue?

We're trying to resolve it:giggling:

[AvarAllahNoor]

In a Shairah run country of course their would be restrictions on idol worshipers such as Hindu's. If I am not mistaken, they do not even enjoy the lowly "dhimmi" status.

It's not shariah run at the moment and i don't think it'll be in the future - Correct me if i'm worng anyone!

And the Dhimmi status is for the following.....People of the Book i.e. Jews and Christians, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Mandeans