This will cause some anger....RIDICULOUS!

[England]

Too Scared For Christmas
Updated: 16:12, Tuesday December 05, 2006

Nearly three-quarters of British firms are banning Christmas decorations in the workplace for fear of being sued, research has shown.

A new survey found most bosses are scared to put up festive tinsel and Christmas trees because they might offend non-Christian workers.

Law firm Peninsula said the workplace was becoming caught up in the "wave" of political correctness.

"Christmas trees and decorations may well be a thing of the past in many workplaces this Christmas as political correctness culture has spread to the workplace," managing director Peter Done said.

"Although employers who are enforcing the ban are sceptical and dismayed by this trend, they feel they have little choice in the matter due to the threat of litigation, as they have to protect themselves, their reputation and their livelihood."

Office workers at Tower Hamlets council and the Royal Bank of Scotland have also been banned from hanging up Christmas decorations at work - in case they got hurt.

Staff were barred via email from climbing on office furniture to put up decorations in case they fell off, hurt themselves and sued.

Recently, workplace dispute reconciliation advisors ACAS attracted criticism for warning bosses they had to be politically correct at office parties.

A set of guidelines issued by the service warned against running raffles at end-of-year shindigs, because they might offend Muslims, and against playing too much modern music, because it might offend older members of staff.

[arabiyyah]

interesting. i would like to read others opinions because in my head i am debating this issue looking at all sides.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

they put up decorations in my work place, and everytime i look at that fat jolly santa i cant stop laughing lol

[- Qatada -]

I think the only reason they doing it is to cause anti-religion everywhere, and they know that if they can ban other faiths - they can ban islaam too. And obviously islaam is the most practical religion so if they can ban stuff like this, they got an easy excuse to ban islaam too. And Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.

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[Woodrow]

The Christmas decorations do not offend me. I am not compelled to believe in the symbolism of them. I do not feel anyone is trying to force a religious belief upon me. In fact in my view the decorations are so secular that I see them as an advertisement for a seasonal sale with no religious significance.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

now if they tried forcing me to join my hands and say "oh lord jesus" there might be problems, but a jolly fat man wiv a green tree , lol no problem

[Umar001]

I know of at least one work place who keeps decorations, they had some for Divali and Eid and they have some for Christmas

[Muhammad]

:sl: and Greetings,

I agree with Woodrow, I am not offended by the decorations. Here, they put up decorations for Diwali, Vasaikhi and Eid as well as Christmas, and they will put them up in places where there are a majority of the respective religion.

[England]

I think it's disgusting. We have tinsel around the computer screens at our workplace and as the month draws further there will Christmas posters, invitations and card put up. No-one should be allowed to stop this. It is Christmas. Does the government ban parts of other religious festivals? What about Muslim festivals, Sikh, Judaism? It's the Christians that are being discriminated against. Christians are being discriminated against because of our tolerance. If we went out causing riots, trying to enter the parliament building, killing non-Christians, attempted to assasinate the prime minister then they wouldn't even dream of doing this. It makes me sick and this is what is ruining "Great" Britain. This is something that Spain does not tolerate.

[Skillganon]

I lived in England for a long time. Since birth and I do fid this kind of new's quite perplexing.

This articles seem to make it look like it's my fault by being a muslim.

[England]

I lived in England for a long time. Since birth and I do fid this kind of new's quite perplexing.

This articles seem to make it look like it's my fault by being a muslim.

You get the few muslims complaining about being offended by Christmas decorations. Obviously to rake in some money, which would be greed.

[- Qatada -]

Hi England.


So you're blaming the muslims because the article says so? Can't we say that about any person? What about the guy who attacked the veil? If he's christian, should we start stereotyping all christians to be like that?


Just think about it.



Peace.

[Durrah]

I think it's disgusting. We have tinsel around the computer screens at our workplace and as the month draws further there will Christmas posters, invitations and card put up. No-one should be allowed to stop this. It is Christmas. Does the government ban parts of other religious festivals? What about Muslim festivals, Sikh, Judaism? It's the Christians that are being discriminated against. Christians are being discriminated against because of our tolerance. If we went out causing riots, trying to enter the parliament building, killing non-Christians, attempted to assasinate the prime minister then they wouldn't even dream of doing this. It makes me sick and this is what is ruining "Great" Britain. This is something that Spain does not tolerate.

again mate, its the bleeding liberal hearts! This has got nothing to do with other religious minority groups. I can ssure you, most if not all muslim really dont give a hoot what xmas decor you put up, where you hang it and what you celebrate at xmas (even if we disagree with the theological aspects of christinaity or xmas)

Its these silly goverment minisiters, civil servents (again, often english themselves) who take it upon themselves to 'speak' on behalf of the minorties and introduce stupid policies on matters which are completly non issue to minorities.

I understand your anger, but make sure you direct it at the right group of people (the goverment) and not your avergae Sandeep, Mohammed or Benjahmin.

[England]

Hi England.


So you're blaming the muslims because the article says so? Can't we say that about any person? What about the guy who attacked the veil? If he's christian, should we start stereotyping all christians to be like that?


Just think about it.



Peace.

I believe I said ***** But my parents are blaming ALL muslims for complaining and the government for discriminating against us. They listen to the media. I'm sure there are more like them. These dipsy left-wingers are causing trouble.

[Woodrow]

You get the few muslims complaining about being offended by Christmas decorations. Obviously to rake in some money, which would be greed.

As long as all people are treated equaly and there is no compulsion to put up decorations nor compolsion to stop others from putting up decorations that they choose at the time of the year they choose, there should be no problem. Political correctness can be over done and the desire to prevent the show of any religion becomes an enforced show of no religion.

[Cheb]

I think it's disgusting. We have tinsel around the computer screens at our workplace and as the month draws further there will Christmas posters, invitations and card put up. No-one should be allowed to stop this. It is Christmas. Does the government ban parts of other religious festivals? What about Muslim festivals, Sikh, Judaism? It's the Christians that are being discriminated against. Christians are being discriminated against because of our tolerance. If we went out causing riots, trying to enter the parliament building, killing non-Christians, attempted to assasinate the prime minister then they wouldn't even dream of doing this. It makes me sick and this is what is ruining "Great" Britain. This is something that Spain does not tolerate.

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like you are indirectly blaming Muslims in this post. I believe the problem is somewhere else. Besides I think Christmas ornaments is more of a 'traditional' thing than 'religious'. I dont believe it should offend anyone. Even if it is considered religious, I don’t think people should have a problem with it either.
These things actually create more hostility between different cultures. If they really were thinking of supporting Muslim beliefs witht his ban, they are actually doing the exact opposite. This thread supports what im saying too.

[Durrah]

I believe I said But my parents are blaming ALL muslims for complaining and the government for discriminating against us. They listen to the media. I'm sure there are more like them. These dipsy left-wingers are causing trouble.

itrs your job to inform your parents that muslims are not responsible for these actions and not too get sucked into media progandada.

Like i said before, you'd find it very difficult to find a muslim who actually was actively taking steps to ban xmas in the workplace. We many not agree with the whole xmas shebang, but none of us care what you get upto and how you choose to celebrate that.

I remember the Express last year ran this story about how Southwark Council (or Lambeth, cant remember which one) dicthed street xmas lights. Now the Express went into all gung-ho about how this was down to muslims, blach blach blach, but in actual fact that was revealed the council just didnt want to spend the money to put them up- had nothing to do with muslims. Obviosuly though, maximum damage had already been done and many anti muslim sentiments were said, by both press and public- when muslims had no part in it.

So, dont fall into the trap mate and dont let your parents neither.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Peace,


England it also sounds like your getting a bit "sucked uP" as they say by the media. I hope no-one at work takes the same attitude as you or they may act unhappy towards me.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Hi England,

I understand this is angering you, but please mind the language :)

[England]

itrs your job to inform your parents that muslims are not responsible for these actions and not too get sucked into media progandada.

Like i said before, you'd find it very difficult to find a muslim who actually was actively taking steps to ban xmas in the workplace. We many not agree with the whole xmas shebang, but none of us care what you get upto and how you choose to celebrate that.

I remember the Express last year ran this story about how Southwark Council (or Lambeth, cant remember which one) dicthed street xmas lights. Now the Express went into all gung-ho about how this was down to muslims, blach blach blach, but in actual fact that was revealed the council just didnt want to spend the money to put them up- had nothing to do with muslims. Obviosuly though, maximum damage had already been done and many anti muslim sentiments were said, by both press and public- when muslims had no part in it.

So, dont fall into the trap mate and dont let your parents neither.

I've had a little discussion with them about things like this mostly since I started coming to this forum. They just say "how come this, how come that.." and I basically don't have answers to convince them.
A few weeks ago I went to watch Manchester Utd v Chelsea with a muslim from work and they knew this. Their words were "be careful, don't go anywhere alone with him." They're paranoid about it and I'm not lying, I swear to God.

[Durrah]

I've had a little discussion with them about things like this mostly since I started coming to this forum. They just say "how come this, how come that.." and I basically don't have answers to convince them.
A few weeks ago I went to watch Manchester Utd v Chelsea with a muslim from work and they knew this. Their words were "be careful, don't go anywhere alone with him." They're paranoid about it and I'm not lying, I swear to God.

Sorry to hear that mate.

I guess the best you can do is continue to talk with them. Maybe you should invite your muslim mate round down your house one day? I know i was like proabably the only muslim friend for some of my english mates and i knew all of their parents and admittidly some had their sterotypes or resverations about muslims- even though few actually knew any, but because i actually got to know them and stuff i was able to break down those 'barriers' if you like and my mates would then tell me how their parents changed in their views. They werent malicious or nasty people, just ordinary folk, but they just didnt know any muslims really and only based their opinions on what they heard.

sometimes a good example of something can make all the difference to people's perceptions.

[zanjabeela]

:sl:
I think that is sad, stupid, and ridiculous beyond belief. Let them have their decorations--and let us keep our veils. I wonder, also, if this is leading up to a domino effect kind of thing with all religious symbolsim, or if it really is just political correctness.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Is it just me, or are people going really psycho:? lol

[Woodrow]

I would suspect a domino effect. The lose of any religious symbol results in a lose of all of them.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:

I've found personally that the best form of dawah is to actually be a living imbodiment of islam and show what islam is about through your everyday life.

Most people i've known, ie. friends and stuff, hated been bogged down with too much literature, questioning, not taking 'no' for an answer etc- its one of the reasons that most of them disliked jehowah witnesses.

However many of them would comment upon my actions pubclially and privately and i relaised that what i said, the way i behaved and acted becamse reference point of islam for many friends, their families etc..

So, inshallah we should make sure as muslims first that we are practising our deen proerply. Then you'll see that we wont nessacarly have to go upto anyone becase they will naturally come to you.

:salamext:

thats correct and sis i noticed that those who dont follow islam are treated lik kaafirs. For example there maybe a brother who drinks etc so no-one would ever ask him about islaam or even recognize his islaam but those who practise the deen will be asked and subhanAllah the responces recieved are amazing. And the only way to recognize someone who practices the deen if by acting it out,

"whats the beard?
why do you pray?
FIVE TIMES A DAY??
why do you wear that hat?
you muslims dont believe in evolution :eek:?"

and it carries on.

[rubiesand]

Hi England,

Could you maybe show your parents this article from the Telegraph newspaper? I think it will help them see things from a new perspective.
I'll copy it below, with emphasis by me.


"Leave Christmas alone, say Muslims
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent
Last Updated: 1:56am GMT 15/11/2006



Muslim leaders joined their Christian counterparts yesterday to launch a powerful attack on politicians and town halls that play down Christmas.

They warned that attempts to remove religion from the festival were fuelling Right-wing extremism.

A number of town halls have tried to excise references to Christianity from Christmas, in one case by renaming their municipal celebrations "Winterval".

They have often justified their actions by saying Britain is now a multi-faith society and they are anxious to avoid offending minority groups.

But the Muslim leaders said they honoured Christmas and that local authorities were playing into the hands of extremists who were able to blame Muslim communities for undermining Britain's Christian culture.

The unprecedented broadside was delivered by the Christian Muslim Forum, which was launched this year by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, with the support of Tony Blair.

The forum's reaction reflects growing anger among Christians and other faiths about the efforts of secularists to push religion to the margins of public life.

In 1998 Birmingham renamed its celebrations "Winterval", and in 2001 Luton described its Christmas lights as "luminos", taken from Harry Potter.

Last week, the Church of England criticised Royal Mail for issuing Christmas stamps with no Christian theme.

The forum, which draws half its membership from senior members of the Muslim community, said in a statement that "as Muslims and Christians together" it was "wholeheartedly committed" to the religious recognition of Christian festivals.

"Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus and we wish this significant part of the Christian heritage of this country to remain an acknowledged part of national life.

"The desire to secularise religious festivals is offensive to both of our communities."

The statement, signed by the forum's chairman, the Bishop of Bolton, the Rt Rev David Gillett, and its vice-chairman, Dr Ataullah Siddiqui, urged society to promote religious freedom.

"Those who use the fact of religious pluralism as an excuse to de-Christianise British society unthinkingly become recruiting agents for the extreme Right. They provoke antagonism towards Muslims and others by foisting on them an anti-Christian agenda they do not hold."
Bishop Gillett said in a separate article that it was strange that so many public bodies were nervous or dismissive about Christmas when 72 per cent of Britons described themselves as Christian in the 2001 Census.

Any repetition by councils to rename Christmas so as not to offend other faith communities will "backfire badly" on the Muslim community, he said. "Sadly it is they who get the blame — and for something they are not saying."

[Keltoi]

I believe the problem in the West in terms of the increasing anti-Christian mindset is caused by the need to feel like a rebel. It started in the 1960's and has just increased from there. That leads to academic institutions, most of them highly liberalized, to look upon Christianity as the old barrier to self-expression and individualism. It is sort of a strange mixture of liberal idealism and leftist hostility to the "old ways." It is ridiculous, but I think it will get worse before it gets better.

[Muezzin]

I heard about this the other day. In the law firm I've had experience at, there is only one Christian - the rest of the employees are either Muslim, Sikh or Hindu - and they still put up decorations. I'm not offended at the sight of tinsel or Christmas trees. What a ridiculous thing to take offence to.

[Karimeldib]

dear england,
i think muslims have much more important things to fight against that tinsel and christmas trees...
for example the right for a veiled woman to teach or work or go to school. the right to go out for friday prayers, etc etc...
and as to the remark about getting people to convert...every person who believes in a religion usually wants everyone else to join that religion! right or wrong? if u believe in christianity and u believe it is the best way of life wouldnt you want everyone to join? its the same with muslims we believe its the most efficient, fulfilling way of life so to us we want people to be muslims and for the muslims to follow the religion correctly...

[FBI]

:sl:

I see what the goverment are trying to do, simple. they wan't people to resent islam and in the intrest of fairness any anti-islamic stances they might introduce might not be concieved as anti-islamic.

[TheRightPathI]

:sl:

I see what the goverment are trying to do, simple. they wan't people to resent islam and in the intrest of fairness any anti-islamic stances they might introduce might not be concieved as anti-islamic.

:salamext: Bingo.

Is it just me or does this seem like they are just trying to suppress religion until there will be no more religion in the workplace or other places?
:wasalamex

[Woodrow]

:salamext: Bingo.

Is it just me or does this seem like they are just trying to suppress religion until there will be no more religion in the workplace or other places?
:wasalamex

In my opinion that is what is being done.

However, I do not view it as a Western influence problem. I see it as a business problem and too many businesses world wide placing emphasis on profit above human needs and rights. This happens not only among non-Muslim businesses but among Muslim businesses were the owners should know better.

How many Muslim business owners do you know that laugh and brag about getting rich off of the vices of non-Muslims by selling haram products to non-Muslims?

These attitudes contribute to the decline of ALL public acknowledgement of ALL religions.

[snakelegs]

who is behind this - the BNP?
sounds like somethng cooked up to make more people hate muslims.....
actually, this would be a great opportunity for some PR work. like muslim organizations in UK issuing press releases saying that this is nonesense and muslims have no objections, etc.

[-Shakirah-]

it wasn't exactly an article, I read this in the mail newspaper. It was a few do's and dont's at the office partly! From a paper thats totally biased!

[-Shakirah-]

And btw I don't lnow a single Muslim that has a problem with Christmas, in fact some of the celebrate the festive season more then the christians themselves!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

And btw I don't lnow a single Muslim that has a problem with Christmas, in fact some of the celebrate the festive season more then the christians themselves!

whohoooah!! sis no we dont, we only celebrate islamic stuff lol.

[Trumble]

I understand your anger, but make sure you direct it at the right group of people (the goverment)

You should follow your own advice!

This has nothing to do with government or civil servants, and there is no ban on Christmas decorations in any government department.

It's partly those who like to think they are acting in the interests of 'minorities' without actually bothering to consult them, but mainly fear of an insane legal system where people can be sued for just about anything, no matter how trivial. The sad end result is that this sort of nonsense just increases resentment and increases tensions.

Is it just me or does this seem like they are just trying to suppress religion until there will be no more religion in the workplace or other places?

In reality Christmas decorations in offices have absolutely nothing to do with religion! This certainly has nothing to do with suppressing it. It's probably hard for devout muslims to understand but in many so-called Christian countries, including the UK, Christmas really doesn't have much to do with religion any more. It's just a sort of big national occasion for chilling and letting off steam once a year, be it spending more time with the kids, partying or just sitting in front of the TV.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you England,

I don’t think anyone who sees Christmas decorations thinks, oh yes I must go to church and become a Christian.

Where is the message of Christ in Christmas decorations?

In the spirit of seeking Christ at Christmas

Eric.

[Abdul Fattah]

Well I think this is sad and even though I don't really care for these kind of things I do consider this bad news. This is another affirmation that these days many people seem to think that in order to be religiously-neutral one has to be anti-religious, which obviously is ridiculous. I mean come on, not putting up symbolic items as a part of being political correct? How are symbols politically incorrect? the only way I could consider this an issue of political correctness is when some symbols would and other wouldn't be allowed. In that case it would be political incorrect, But as I understand so far there has been no such bans on any religious symbols in offices in England right?

[AvarAllahNoor]

To be fair has ANYONE heard a person of non-christain faith say they are offended by anything Christmassy?? I've not, some people are just out to cause more intolerance...like we don't already have that.

[glo]

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like you are indirectly blaming Muslims in this post. I believe the problem is somewhere else. Besides I think Christmas ornaments is more of a 'traditional' thing than 'religious'. I dont believe it should offend anyone. Even if it is considered religious, I don’t think people should have a problem with it either.
These things actually create more hostility between different cultures. If they really were thinking of supporting Muslim beliefs witht his ban, they are actually doing the exact opposite. This thread supports what im saying too.

Greetings

I read in the news a few days back that a Muslim group here in Britain spoke out against the banning of Christmas decorations for exactly that reason: they fear it will add to already existing tensions.

Unfortunately I cannot find any web links for this ... :rollseyes

Personally, I have no overly strong feelings about Christmas decorations.
The true meaning of Christmas should be reflected in the hearts and attitude of Christians.
It is a time when Christians remember

1. The promises of Jesus' birth in the Old Testament
2. The birth, life and ultimate sacrifice of Jesus
3. The promise of his second coming

Peace

[Pygoscelis]

I see this and I just think "ho hum".

I've never objected to christmas decorations. They don't bother me at all. But I won't miss them if they go away.

[KAding]

Hmm, I have a few questions:
1. What does the government have to do with this? They aren't enforcing this, the private companies are.
2. Did anyone actually ever sue over a Christmas tree at the workplace?

[soulsociety]

No Muslims complained about Christmas decorations. Just some non-Muslims think they know best and trying to be politically correct, when in fact they are making things worse.

[soulsociety]

I think the real reason is bosses don't want their workers to start slacking off. So they try and kill the festive mood, banning decorations and such.