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IbnAbdulHakim
12-08-2006, 10:58 AM
:salamext:

i heard from sheikh abu usama that in the bible theres a story of jacob (or one of the prophets) wrestling with God and defeating him and then Allah asking for his name (like he doesnt kno it??) and then naming the prophet Israil (which apparently means "THE ONE WHO OVERPOWERED GOD"???"

btw this lecturer is brilliant mashaAllah, so i thought perhaps its true :eek:
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IzakHalevas
12-08-2006, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
:salamext:

i heard from sheikh abu usama that in the bible theres a story of jacob (or one of the prophets) wrestling with God and defeating him and then Allah asking for his name (like he doesnt kno it??) and then naming the prophet Israil (which apparently means "THE ONE WHO OVERPOWERED GOD"???"

btw this lecturer is brilliant mashaAllah, so i thought perhaps its true :eek:
The Name of "Israel" or in hebrew "yisrael" means one who has struggled with G-d. Not "overpower", so your brilliant lecturer was basically wrong.

"Yisra" in Hebrew means "to struggle with" and the last two letters "el" are one of G-d's names.

יִשְׂרָאֵל
Yisrael
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IbnAbdulHakim
12-08-2006, 08:07 PM
thanks so much for clearing that up :).

can you please explain how does one struggle with God?
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
12-08-2006, 08:09 PM
i was gona ask da same question :-S
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Abu Ibraheem
12-08-2006, 08:22 PM
Still its important to know that Israel is actually a Biblical personality and not a state.
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IzakHalevas
12-08-2006, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thanks so much for clearing that up :).

can you please explain how does one struggle with God?
Jews are always struggling with G-d in a way, but the context and connotations of what it means in english may be different then in Hebrew.

It signifies that Jacob struggled but in the end accepted G-d as the supreme being. All people struggle with G-d at one point in their life, and to conquer there doubts and continue to belief is the greatest victory. Therefore, to "struggle with G-d" means that Jacobs struggle and triumph in the face of overwhelming odds in this story is actually a meaning of "G-d is superior".
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Abu Ibraheem
12-08-2006, 08:27 PM
theres evidence to suggest that Jacob submitted himsel to G-d before that.
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IzakHalevas
12-08-2006, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Abu Ibraheem
theres evidence to suggest that Jacob submitted himsel to G-d before that.
He had doubts however at a certain points. He overcame them however, which is the whole point.

I must go now, any questions can be asked in the Judaism Q/A thread however.
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IbnAbdulHakim
12-08-2006, 08:31 PM
hmm i thought i made it clear that i meant "in christianity" when i said "the bible". lol but thanks anyway :)
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ManchesterFolk
12-08-2006, 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
hmm i thought i made it clear that i meant "in christianity" when i said "the bible". lol but thanks anyway :)
It is irrelevant what religion it is from. Anyone who knows hebrew would know what it means. The lecturer (i will try to be as respectful as possible) either was lying or has no clue what he talking about.
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