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Malaikah
12-09-2006, 09:00 AM
:sl:

How do we know which cheese is halal? :?

If it doesnt say rennet but says enzyme is that like the same thing anyway? :?
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lolwatever
12-09-2006, 09:02 AM
:sl:
rn't u made out of milk :? so how can it b haram :?
:w:
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Malaikah
12-09-2006, 09:08 AM
:sl:

lol yeh but rennet is an enzyme used to make cheese and it is usually taken from the stomach of young goats/cows. So if the animal isnt slaughtered properly then it isnt halal.

I just came across a fatwa that has confused me even more:

Cheeses made with enzymes taken from animals that are not slaughtered Islamically

Question:

Is the cheese halaal if it is made from enzymes taken from haraam meat (not slaughtered according to shariah) as the enzymes still live beyond the animal's life time i.e the enzyme does not die when the animal is killed.

Answer:


Praise be to Allaah.

Before answering this question, it is important to know what rennet is.

Al-Fayroozabaadi said in al-Qaamoos al-Muheet (p. 313), under the definition of na fa ha: al-infahah and al-minfahah and al-binfahah all refer to something yellow that is extracted from the stomachs of suckling goat kids.

Infahah (rennet) was also defined in al-Mawsoo'ah al-Fiqhiyyah as follows: "It is a yellowish-white substance ([in a skin vessel] - this phrase appears not to fit here) that is extracted from the stomachs of suckling kids or lambs. When a little of this substance is added to milk, it curdles and becomes cheese. In some Arabic-speaking regions, people call this rennet mujabbinah (cheese-maker), and the stomach (from which the rennet is taken) is called kursh if the animal grazes on grass.

The Islamic ruling concerning rennet is that if it is taken from an animal that has been slaughtered according to sharee'ah, then it is pure (taahir) and can be eaten. This is according to the Hanafis, Maalikis, Shaafa'is and Hanbalis.

As regards eating rennet taken from an animal that dies naturally, or that was not slaughtered in accordance with sharee'ah, according to the apparent meaning of the opinions reported from the majority of scholars among the Maalikis, Shaafa'is and Hanbalis have said, it is impure (naajis) and should not be eaten. They base this ruling on the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): "Forbidden to you for food) are: al-maytatah (dead animals - cattle-beast not slaughtered)…" [al-Maa;idah 5:3] - the rennet becomes impure by virtue of the animal's death, and it is not possible to remove that impurity from it. [next phrase is unclear]

Imaam al-Nawawi said in al-Majmoo' (9/68): "The ummah is agreed that it is permissible to eat cheese so long as it is not mixed with anything impure, such as adding rennet from a source that is not halaal because it was not slaughtered according to sharee'ah. This ijmaa' (scholarly consensus) is the evidence for its permissibility."

The second view, which is that of Abu Haneefah and is one of two opinions narrated from Imaam Ahmad, is that rennet from dead animals or animals that were not slaughtered according to sharee'ah is still taahir (pure). This is the opinion which Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah thought most correct in al-Fataawaa (21/102), where he said: "It is more likely that their (the Zoroastrians') cheese is halaal, and that the rennet and milk of dead animals is taahir (pure)." Elsewhere in al-Fataawaa (35/154) he said: "With regard to the cheese made with their (some of the kaafir Baatini groups') rennet, there are two well-known scholarly opinions, as is the case with the rennet from animals slaughtered by the Zoroastrians and Christians, and rennet from dead animals, of whom it is said that they do not slaughter their animals properly. The schools of Abu Haneefah and Ahmad, according to the other of his two opinions, say that this cheese is halaal, because the rennet taken from dead animals is taahir (pure), according to this view, and because the (enzymes in) rennet do not die when the animal dies (so, the concept "impure containers don't cause the contents of the container to become impure by contact" ) applies. The schools of Maalik, al-Shaafa'i and Ahmad, according to the other of his two opinions, state that this cheese is naajis (impure), because the rennet is impure according to this view, as they see the milk and rennet of dead animals as impure. In cases where meat is classified as impure because it is not slaughtered properly, the meat is regarded as being the same as dead meat. Both opinions are based on reports narrated from the Sahaabah. The first group states that the Sahaabah used to eat the cheese of the Zoroastrians, while the second group state that the Sahaabah used to eat what they thought was the cheese of the Christians. With regard to this issue, the follower (ordinary Muslim) must follow an 'aalim who advises him to follow either of these two opinions.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...eng&txt=cheese

:? :rollseyes
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Malaikah
12-11-2006, 12:59 PM
:sl:

No replies? :mmokay: Someone must know something!! Do they use articifial enzymes these days by any chance?
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Muhaammad Mahdi
12-11-2006, 01:11 PM
http://www.muslimconsumergroup.com/
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IbnAbdulHakim
12-11-2006, 01:40 PM
:salamext:

This day was going quite nice and simple, and then i had to run into this thread, i would like an explenation of that fatwa
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Malaikah
12-11-2006, 01:47 PM
:sl:

^LOL youre telling me... my LIFE was going nice and simple until I felt I needed to start this thread. (Ok exaggeration, but I have never been a huge fan of cheese but now that I am keeping away from it until I find out whether it is ok or not, i have never felt more like eating cheese in my life :X)

I wish the person who wrote the article would have just given his opinion on the matter or said so and so opinion is stonger... would have made life so much easier. :hiding:
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lolwatever
12-11-2006, 10:16 PM
:sl:

but u gotta keep in mind that the problem is ours rather than the fatwa's... coz if we lived in an Islamic country this would never be an issue... its our fault for letting things be the way they are today...

Ok exaggeration, but I have never been a hug fan of cheese but now that I am keeping away from it until I find out whether it is ok or not, i have never felt more like eating cheese in my life :X)
liar :offended:

:w:
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Snowflake
12-11-2006, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
:sl:
rn't u made out of milk :? so how can it b haram :?
:w:
Lol. It can be haram..that's why certain cheeses are labelled as suitable for vegetarians. :rollseyes


No replies? Someone must know something!! Do they use articifial enzymes these days by any chance?
Vegetarian cheeses can be made using non animal rennet. Now a days most vege cheeses are made of rennet produced by fermentation of the fungus Mucor miehei. Bacteria Bacillus subtilis or Bacillus prodigiosum can also be used for rennet.
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Rabiyal
12-11-2006, 11:44 PM
well according to our Imam, cheese is okay to eat, since enzymes get destroyed in the heating process and they evaporate (not sure about spell). I am not doubting him he's a revert and has very strong Islamic believes, Allhumdulilah. But I still wasn't sure about it. In the begining I thought rennet was bad too according to my Aunts who have been living in Canada practically half their lives. So I followed that, Until our Imam pointed out now days not many cheese companies use rennet, they use enzymes, and milk. And I was surprised, cuz he was right. And according to him Enzymes evaporting theory so the cheese would be okay to eat.

Even after all this time I still eat Tufu cheese, made with only vegetable ingrediants. no animal of any kind. And cheeses suggested by my Imam is Krafts. So I don't know which type you guys eat. or if my Imam's theory is right or not?!?!?
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Rabiyal
12-11-2006, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Lol. It can be haram..that's why certain cheeses are labelled as suitable for vegetarians. :rollseyes




Vegetarian cheeses can be made using non animal rennet. Now a days most vege cheeses are made of rennet produced by fermentation of the fungus Mucor miehei. Bacteria Bacillus subtilis or Bacillus prodigiosum can also be used for rennet.

EXACTLY MY POINT^^^^^
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Malaikah
12-12-2006, 12:30 AM
:sl:

sis is kraft halal?!?! Like non-animal?? cos we have kraft cheese :?

Originally Posted by lolwatever
but u gotta keep in mind that the problem is ours rather than the fatwa's... coz if we lived in an Islamic country this would never be an issue... its our fault for letting things be the way they are today...
I know. Its my fault I never took over the cheese industry when I had the chance. imsad
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Rabiyal
12-12-2006, 05:59 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

sis is kraft halal?!?! Like non-animal?? cos we have kraft cheese :?
Well according to our Imam it is okay, since it only has enzymes and rest in Milk ingrediants. But please make sure you read the label before eating.


I know. It my fault I never took over the cheese industry when I had the chance. imsad
lol, let me know when you get a second chance we could be partners:giggling:
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Malaikah
12-12-2006, 06:40 AM
haha:p

so sis enzyemes are not derived from animals? cos the kraft thing says enzymes not rennet
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Rabiyal
12-12-2006, 06:57 AM
as I stated above according to our Imam's, enzymes are evaporated in the heating process. I told you My Imam's theory didn't make much sense, that's why I stick to cheese made with only Milk products and are Vegetable base.

so please follow your Imam, cuz I am not believing much in this theory ^^ :)
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lolwatever
12-12-2006, 07:24 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

sis is kraft halal?!?! Like non-animal?? cos we have kraft cheese :?



I know. It my fault I never took over the cheese industry when I had the chance. imsad
:sl:
not too late, u dont hav 2worry about ingredients, u can sell 100 gram packets of urself :D
:w:
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Rabiyal
12-12-2006, 02:52 PM
^^^lol watever brother ji, I dont think this came out right. It would have sounded a little different if it came from a sister, but coming from a brother, doesn't sound so "watever"
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Snowflake
12-12-2006, 03:10 PM
[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

sis is kraft halal?!?! Like non-animal?? cos we have kraft cheese :?
if it hasnt got a V sign then don't eat it. It's most likely to be haram. I usually ring the companies to ask if in doubt.

Btw, I may as well mention it here... Walls said they can't guarantee any of their products are suitable for vegeterians. Reason: Sometime the ingredients are from an animal source and sometimes not -depending on availability. That is why walls don't label there products as V even if they are. The next batch might not be.

I know. Its my fault I never took over the cheese industry when I had the chance. imsad
lol, do it now.. and stamp the cheeses with a big HALAL sign!
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...
12-12-2006, 03:15 PM
^ yeah we only get cheese with the V sign on it :) It's best to be on the safe side :)
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Malaikah
12-13-2006, 05:50 AM
:sl:

Oh no, I emailed the kraft people about this and the reply:

Thank you for contacting the Kraft Foods website with your query.

All Kraft processed cheese product (Slices, Singles, Cheddar, Cheestiks,
Cheese Wedges, Cheesy Pops & Fridge Sticks) along with our Parmesan Cheese
products contain animal rennet &/or enzymes, however, the exception is our
Philadelphia Cream Cheese products (block, tub, dips) which contain
microbial rennet (non-animal) and are suitable for vegetarians to consume.

Maybe I can find some cheese that says vegetarian on it... imsad
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syilla
12-13-2006, 05:55 AM
^^^oh my pity sis cheese...

don't worry sis cheese....maybe now you can learn to make your own cheese.

try to find the recipe....

i'm sure it'll be easy :rolleyes: i think so...
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Snowflake
12-17-2006, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Oh no, I emailed the kraft people about this and the reply:

Thank you for contacting the Kraft Foods website with your query.

All Kraft processed cheese product (Slices, Singles, Cheddar, Cheestiks,
Cheese Wedges, Cheesy Pops & Fridge Sticks) along with our Parmesan Cheese
products contain animal rennet &/or enzymes, however, the exception is our
Philadelphia Cream Cheese products (block, tub, dips) which contain
microbial rennet (non-animal) and are suitable for vegetarians to consume.

Maybe I can find some cheese that says vegetarian on it... imsad

sis I just went shopping and I checked the Kraft's singles. It says they ARE suitable for vegetarians. There's a great BIG green V sign on it. :confused:
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Woodrow
12-17-2006, 04:28 PM
Cheese making developed differently in different parts of the world. The European hard cheeses do not need to be made with rennet and the old methods did not use rennet. Also the old cottage cheeses and the Hard cheeses made with it did not use rennet.


Rennet came about from the mid-eastern Arabs where it was common practice to use the stomachs of goats as milk containers. Cheese was the result of storing milk.

Some other things that have been and are used to produce cheese are various bacteria. The bacteria Penecillium (from which we get penicillin) has long been used for making Blue and Swiss cheese.

Other sources of enzymes for cheese production are vinigar, Lemon juice and pepsin (from papayas)

So with cheese either get your cheese that is certified V or from a trusted halal market or as last resort make your own. It really is simple to make and does not require much equipment. It takes about a gallon of milk to make one pound of cheese. You just need a good recipe and a starting culture. The starting culture can be yougart or cottage cheese.

Here is a good link for cheese making supplies. Notice they sell vegetable rennet and cheese cultures. The Cultures are bacteria based and are non-rennet.

http://www.cheesesupply.com/default.php?cPath=55_56
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Malaikah
12-18-2006, 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
sis I just went shopping and I checked the Kraft's singles. It says they ARE suitable for vegetarians. There's a great BIG green V sign on it. :confused:
:sl:

No way! :eek: Must be just your country then! Why is my country so behind?! :offended:

Thanks for that info Woodrow... I think I will just stick to buying cheese with a V on it though lol
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Snowflake
12-18-2006, 10:49 AM
Which country is behind? :?
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Malaikah
12-18-2006, 11:01 AM
lol I just meant that Kraft in your country makes singles for vegetarians but they dont do that where I live... so my country is behind in that respect.
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lolwatever
12-18-2006, 11:05 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
lol I just meant that Kraft in your country makes singles for vegetarians but they dont do that where I live... so my country is behind in that respect.

:sl:
coz the cheese boss isn't doing her job properly in my country :rollseyes
:w:
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New_Muslim
12-21-2006, 06:18 AM
I didn't know any cheese was harram.
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habiibti
12-21-2006, 06:25 AM
I had no clue we had haram cheese? so nothing is safe these days eh?
I usually use kraft singles,i will go and read the label to see if it has the V sign on it,if it hasnt,does that mean i need to ge rid of it?

can u pliz tell us of brands u guys are familiar with which are haram to eat?
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Malaikah
12-21-2006, 07:17 AM
:sl:

^Well, dont get rid of it, but email the krafts people for your country to see if is halal or not... I have the feeling if it doesnt have the V it might not be halal but just check anyway inshaallah.:)

Man I keep forgetting to go cheese shopping!
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lolwatever
01-09-2007, 11:41 AM
salams
are those triangle cheese ok (2cm high sorta ones in aluminium sorta cover with lil sticker on top)?! i just realised i ate like 3 today at work n this thread clicked 2me just now :offended:
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FollowingAlhuda
01-09-2007, 11:44 AM
I always buy the Boiologycal one!!!
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Malaikah
01-09-2007, 11:44 AM
:sl:

You have to check the ingredients... if it says enzymes/rennet then just don't eat it unless it says vegetarian because it is probably animal based...

unless it says halal on it of course....
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FollowingAlhuda
01-09-2007, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

You have to check the ingredients... if it says enzymes/rennet then just don't eat it unless it says vegetarian because it is probably animal based...

unless it says halal on it of course....
Biologicall is for vegetarians!
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akulion
01-09-2007, 11:47 AM
apart from the renet it is also very important to check if the cow is legally married or was in a haram relationship with another cow :p

lol no seriously
renet is haram and stuff with them in it are also deemed as sch since they are considered impure
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lolwatever
01-09-2007, 11:48 AM
:sl:
hmm it didnt hav ingredients...most likely :hiding:

ah well i guess i totally 4got that they could be illegal :uuh: ill just avoid em insh

jzks
:w:
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FollowingAlhuda
01-09-2007, 11:50 AM
Originally Posted by akulion
apart from the renet it is also very important to check if the cow is legally married or was in a haram relationship with another cow :p

lol no seriously
renet is haram and stuff with them in it are also deemed as sch since they are considered impure
Hahaha, just see if they gave their waleema jet!
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Malaikah
01-09-2007, 11:51 AM
:sl:

What do you guys reckon about eating pizza from Muslim places? I mean, what if they don't know the cheese might be haram?!:uuh:

hmm.. if they have a halal certificate that should cover the cheese too right?:?
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lolwatever
01-09-2007, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

What do you guys reckon about eating pizza from Muslim places? I mean, what if they don't know the cheese might be haram?!:uuh:

hmm.. if they have a halal certificate that should cover the cheese too right?:?
oh y did you think of that :offended:

Halal certificate... ill ask actually


regarding home made pizza... mum uses mozarella... ne1 know nething about that ?!!?!?!? :phew
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Malaikah
01-09-2007, 11:57 AM
^lol because I had pizza a few weeks ago and didn't realise until after I finished that it had cheese on it. :uuh:

Who are you going to ask?:?

Oh, and just check the ingredients for the mozarella...
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lolwatever
01-09-2007, 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
^lol because I had pizza a few weeks ago and didn't realise until after I finished that it had cheese on it. :uuh:

Who are you going to ask?:?
someone who i think knows one of the certification ppl... i think.

but someone pls tell me sumfn abt the last line if they know....:X

oh these are hard times.
:w:
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Malaikah
01-09-2007, 12:08 PM
:sl:

By the way... you can get vegetarian cheese... if the one you get isn't halal just look for other ones...

OR... if pizza means that much too you... the article I posted showed that there are two opinions on the matter of whether rennet is halal or not...if you want, just look up into deeper to see if you think the halal opinion is worth following...
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lolwatever
01-09-2007, 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

By the way... you can get vegetarian cheese... if the one you get isn't halal just look for other ones...

OR... if pizza means that much too you... the article I posted showed that there are two opinions on the matter of whether rennet is halal or not...if you want, just look up into deeper to see if you think the halal opinion is worth following...
:sl:

oh i don't know :S, looks like i'll have to read those articles (cant rem if i ever even read em :hiding:)

i can swear i remember the farm lady made cheese straight outat cow milk infront of my eyes.... ! y cant they stick to that :offended: who cares if it takes 3 years 2 produce lol

:w:
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MinAhlilHadeeth
01-09-2007, 12:28 PM
:salamext:

How do you know if the halal certificate in any place is genuine? Even if it was genuine that would probably cover the meat, as most Muslims don't know there can be haram cheese. Better stay away from pizzerias then.:-\
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lolwatever
01-09-2007, 12:30 PM
Originally Posted by Umm 'Abdullah
:salamext:

How do you know if the halal certificate in any place is genuine? Even if it was genuine that would probably cover the meat, as most Muslims don't know there can be haram cheese. Better stay away from pizzerias then.:-\
AA sis

that's what i was thinking too... but ill ask. inshalha

salamz
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Malaikah
01-09-2007, 12:33 PM
The certificate usually has writing on the back doesn't it? With details?:?
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MinAhlilHadeeth
01-09-2007, 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
The certificate usually has writing on the back doesn't it? With details?:?
Oh right I see. I don't really trust these halal take-away places though.:X
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Malaikah
01-09-2007, 12:44 PM
:sl:

^I do, only if they are run by Muslims though. And I'm sure the certificate we have where I live is authentic.
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lolwatever
01-09-2007, 12:52 PM
^ i'll ask inshalah... all i can remember is that its got 'halal' written on it... actually thought das all there is to it till i read wat u sed :hiding:

:w:
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Malaikah
01-09-2007, 12:56 PM
^I could be wrong but. :uuh:.........
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akulion
01-09-2007, 01:35 PM
by the way renet from haram cows is haram only (meaning they were zabiha)

halal cows everything is halal - so if its a halal place enjoy the food
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Snowflake
01-09-2007, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
by the way renet from haram cows is haram only (meaning they were zabiha)

halal cows everything is halal - so if its a halal place enjoy the food
Even food from halal takeaways doesn't mean it's halal. The HALAL sign does not guarantee that all foods in the shop are halal. It is more of an enticement to pull muslim customers.


I happened to be in the kitchen of a halal takeaway once and I noticed that the fat they used looked like lard. It was a big block of white fat. The only fat I know of this description is lard (pig fat). I asked about it and they said they weren't sure what the fat is. I searched for an address etc.. on the box but there were no contact details... so I never got to find out. :-\
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Malaikah
01-10-2007, 12:39 PM
:sl:

^Sis was the place Muslim owned though?:?

See the thing about Muslims, practicing or not, whether they know much about Islam or not, they know about their halal meat. :D lol

Btw LOL at your sig!! ;D
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Snowflake
01-10-2007, 12:45 PM
yes sis my (y) husband worked there for a bit thats how I into the kitchens lol & yeah ur right not all halal food shop owners are practicing.. that's why we gotto be ultra careful *sigh*


hehe my siggy's cool na? :giggling:
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Malaikah
02-19-2007, 02:42 AM
:sl:

Yay! Pizza here I come! :D

Ruling Regarding Animal Rennet in Cheese
Sheikh Salman al-Oadah

There is no problem using the rennet extracted from animals that were slaughtered according to Islamic Law. However, there is a lot of cheese in our markets coming from non-Muslim countries containing bovine rennet. The question arises as to whether or not we as Muslims can eat this cheese.

Cheese made with rennet extracted from animals that were illegally slaughtered was deemed permissible by Imam Ahmad, as stipulated in al-Mughnî (1/3). Muslims used to eat the cheese brought from the Magians and other unbelievers.

The people of knowledge have two sayings on this matter:

The opinion of the majority is that such rennet is impure, [refer to: al-Qawânîn al-Fiqhiyyah page 121, al-Majmû`2/588, Nihâyat al-Muhtâj1/244, Sharh Muntahâ al-Iradât 1/31, al-Insâf 92/1, al-Iqnâ` 1/1]. They believed the rennet is impure because it comes from an impure source, the stomach of the illegally slaughtered animal. They say it is a liquid material that touched an impure substance and thus becomes impure. Imam al-Nawawî said: "It is part of the animal so it is impure, like all the other parts of the animal."

The other saying is that it is pure. This is the opinion of some of the Companions and successors, `Umar, Salmân al-Fârisî, Talhâ, al-Husayn b. `Ali and others. It is also the opinion of the Hanafî school of thought, one narration from Ahmad, and the opinion of Ibn Taymiyyah, [refer to: Badâ'` al-Sanâ'`1/63, al-Bahr al-Ra'q 1/112, Tabyîn al-Haqa'q 1/26, Ihkâm al-Qur'an by al-Jassâs 1/168, al-Mabsût 24/27-28, Majmû` al-Fatâwa 21/102].

In his book al-Mughnî, Ibn Qudâmah writes: "Someone asked Imam Ahmad about cheese. The Imam replied: 'You can eat it from any source.' But, when asked about the cheese made by the Magians, he said: 'I do not know, but there is an authentic hadîth through al-A`mash that `Amr b. Sharhabîl said that `Umar was asked about cheese and the rennet of illegally slaughtered animal used therein. `Umar instructed him to mention Allah's name upon it and eat it."

They offer the following for evidence:

1. The hadîth related by Ibn Abî Shaybah (5/130) and `Abd al-Razzâq (4/538) through al-A`mash, as mentioned above. The line of transmission of this hadîth is absolutely sound. Imam Ahmad said: "It is the most correct hadîth on the subject."

2. The narration of Ibn Abî Shaybah (5/131) that Talhah used to put the knife over the cheese, mention Allah's name, then cut it and eat it. This also has a sound line of transmission.

3. The narration of Ibn Abî Shaybah through Waqî` that al-Hasan B. `Ali was asked about the cheese. He said: "It is alright, just put the knife to it, mention Allah's name, and eat it." All its narrators are reliable save Jahsh b. Ziyâd.

4. The narration of al-Tirmidhî (1726) and Ibn Mâjah (3367): "We were informed by Ismâ`îl b. Mûsa al-Fazarî through Salmân that the Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked about ghee, cheese and fur. He replied: "The lawful things are the ones mentioned in Allah's book as lawful and the unlawful things are the ones which are mentioned in Allah's book as unlawful, and whatever is not mentioned there, then it is exempted". It is a weak hadîth. Ibn Abî Shaybah mentioned in his book al-Musannaf (8/98) that he was informed by Waqî' through Suwayyid, the servant of Salmân, that he said: "When we won the battle of Madâ'in, Salmân said: 'We had found a basket in which we found four pieces of fine bread, cheese and a knife. Then Salmân took the knife and cut the cheese then he said: "Pronounce Allah's name and eat".' " The line of transmission is weak.

5. They said the milk and the rennet will not become impure after death and whatever is extracted from the living animal becomes as if dead. Therefore, since milk is lawful in such cases, then rennet is lawful.

Ibn Taymiyah said:

Regarding the milk and the rennet of unlawfully slaughtered animals, there are two saying from the scholars; one that it is pure, held by Abû Hanîfah and others, including one saying of Imam Ahmad. The other saying is that it is impure which is the saying of Malik, al-Shafi`î and another opinion of Imam Ahmad.

This disagreement took place regarding the cheese brought from the Magians as their slaughtered animals are totally unlawful by consensus. Still, there are two sayings about their cheese. I believe their cheese is lawful, since the milk of the illegally slaughtered animals is lawful and because the Companions ate from their cheese after the battle of Iraq. This has been authentically narrated to us from that time.

There are some weak narrations that some people from Hijâz disliked it, but they are not reliable. The people of Iraq are more trustworthy than others in this case because they lived there and knew the Magians firsthand. Salmân al-Farisî was the Caliph `Umar's governer in that area and he considered the cheese of the Magians to be lawful.

As for the argument that a liquid will become impure when it touches an impure place, we reply that it is known from Sunnah that the liquid is pure. We also say that even if it touches an impure place that will not matter. Allah says: "From what is within their bodies between excretions and blood we produce for you a drink, milk, pure and agreeable to those who drink it." This is why it is permissible to carry a child while praying despite of what is inside his body. And Allah knows best.

On the strength of the above arguments, I hold the opinion that eating cheese is lawful even if the rennet is extracted from unlawfully slaughtered animals.

And Allah knows best.

http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...sub_cat_id=535
Reply

Snowflake
02-19-2007, 02:57 AM
well if we're gonna eat cheese from an illegally slaughtered animal then why not eat the animal too?

honestly the whole point of why illegally slaughtered animals are forbidden is because it's all haram... how can they say this & that part is ok?

`Amr b. Sharhabîl said that `Umar was asked about cheese and the rennet of illegally slaughtered animal used therein. `Umar instructed him to mention Allah's name upon it and eat it."
if mentioning Allah's name made something halal then there'd be no need for halal slaughter.

why not just use vegetarian cheeses?
Reply

Malaikah
02-19-2007, 03:08 AM
:sl:

Sis, the scholars have a pretty strong difference of opinion on the issue, however the above article shows that some of the companions of the Prophet considered it okay, the reasoning was also given. I hardly think 'Umar of all people is just going to make something up himself against the rulings of Rasulallah!

I don't think we need to try and extrapolate further about the meat, the meat is different to the fluids.

Allah knows best, but the article is good enough for me. :)

Oh and about vegetarian cheeses, I can't find any!! Can you believe it!:rant:
Reply

Snowflake
02-19-2007, 04:56 PM
[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Sis, the scholars have a pretty strong difference of opinion on the issue, however the above article shows that some of the companions of the Prophet considered it okay, the reasoning was also given. I hardly think 'Umar of all people is just going to make something up himself against the rulings of Rasulallah!
If the scholars' opinions differ why go for what is in your favour? How do you know that opinion is correct? Why not abandon doubtful matters and keep one's deen free from blame? I agree Umar (ra) would never have made his own rulings - but hadith aren't exactly 100% authentic as compared to the Quran.

Almighty Allah Taála says, "People of Imaan! Eat of the pure things (Halaal) that We have provided for you, and be grateful to Allah Taála" (Surah Baqarah 2:172)

It'd be interesting to point out that even the meat of an otherwise halal animal is deemed haram if the animal dies before halal slaughter. Then how can anything from an animal which wasn't even slaughtered by halal methods be considered halal?

In fact an animal which has been subjected to sexual intercourse by a human cannot even be slaughtered and is considered haram for consumption. Does it makes sense to then eat parts of an animal which hasn't been islamically slaughtered? If that were the case than gelatin which is not a meat, but a substance derived from bones would be halal even if it came from non-zibhad animals. You cannot rename a haram thing as halal as long as it's essence and it remains unchanged. That is the property of both gelatin and rennet - which is why they are used for the purpose they are.

Even halal food cross-contaminated with haram food (fats, oil, juices, meat etcetc) is haram. So it doesn't make sense consume a fluid from a haram source purely because it isn't a meat. :-\


I don't think we need to try and extrapolate further about the meat, the meat is different to the fluids.
Should we not extricate ourselves from matters of doubt? Islam considers it piety to avoid what is doubtful in order to stay away from doing what is haram.

Allah knows best, but the article is good enough for me. :)
I advise caution sis.

Oh and about vegetarian cheeses, I can't find any!! Can you believe it!:rant:[
lol are you sure? there must be suppliers around.. after all someone must be catering for vegetarians. At the end of the day it isn't a huge sacrifice sis to give it up if you have to. You can always make your own cheese.

Rennet acts in much the same way as other acidic liquids such as vinegar or lemon juice. In fact, a cheese called ‘paneer’, used extensively in mid-eastern cookery and reasonably easy to make at home, is prepared using only milk and lemon juice.
:D


:w:
Reply

Al_Imaan
02-19-2007, 05:06 PM
im cheese
your cheese
we're all cheese
for.........

ok back to the topic....there's haram cheese?.....i never knew that....nah, i did know:rollseyes...great articles on cheese.....
Reply

Malaikah
02-20-2007, 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
In fact an animal which has been subjected to sexual intercourse by a human cannot even be slaughtered and is considered haram for consumption.
:sl:

:eek: :uuh: :offended: +o( GROSS!!!!!!

I get what your trying to say sis, but I never realised how hard it is to live with out cheese!!! It's driving my parents crazy too, we got pizza yesterday, and my dad was off to buy pizza when my bros told him I won't eat it because of the cheese... boy did they get frustrated... not to mention a billion other foods.:rolleyes:

Anyway, that article satisfied me enough that it wasn't just people making up their own theories about why it is okay... I don't want to cause too much issues for anyone...
Reply

Snowflake
02-20-2007, 09:20 AM
sis have a go at making your own Mozzarella for home made pizza :)


http://www.leeners.com/mozzarella.html
http://homecooking.about.com/b/a/045716.htm


And why don't you write to a few cheese-makers and tell them there's a demand for vegetarian cheese? It's not hard for them to produce and if they feel it's worth the effort, they just might start doing that.
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