Morocco jails German for trying to convert Muslims

[Lina]

:sl:

Reuters
Wednesday, November 29, 2006; 12:40 PM


RABAT (Reuters) - A Moroccan court jailed a German tourist for six months for attempting to convert Muslims in the southern resort of Agadir, officials said on Wednesday.

The court in Agadir, Morocco's main tourist destination, found the 64-year-old man guilty of trying to "shake the faith of a Muslim," they added.


The court also fined him 500 dirhams ($60) in its verdict issued late on Tuesday.

Court officials named the German of Egyptian origin as Sadek Noshi Yassa, who was arrested last week as he was distributing books and CDs about the Christian faith to young Muslim Moroccans in the street, the officials said.

Under Moroccan law "anyone who employs incitements to shake the faith of a Muslim or to convert him to another religion" can be jailed for up to six months and fined.

The verdict came after local media reports that some Christians had launched a clandestine campaign to convert thousands of Muslim Moroccans to Christianity.

There are about 20,000 expatriate Christians in Morocco, most of them living in Rabat and Casablanca, according to estimates by European diplomats.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112900931.html

[Keltoi]

Not surprising.

[MTAFFI]

I wonder if it is illegal to convert a Christian to a Muslim there?:? Probably not, imagine if a Muslim were jailed for this in the West, wow

[zanjabeela]

:sl:
^ Good question. I wonder how many incidents we can find of Muslims attempting to convert people to Islam?

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[Keltoi]

I also find the charge about "shaking the faith of a Muslim" to be quite strange. Is a Muslim's faith that weak that a law is needed to stop the temptation to convert to another faith?

[IzakHalevas]

I also find the charge about "shaking the faith of a Muslim" to be quite strange. Is a Muslim's faith that weak that a law is needed to stop the temptation to convert to another faith?

I wonder how many riots we would see if an Imaam was locked up for converting a Christian. They would obviously attack the west on their lack of 'freedom'... :heated:

[Muezzin]

Abide by the laws of the land, change them, or move, as I say, repeatedly, in many circumstances involving people of all religions.

[Hawa]

I also find the charge about "shaking the faith of a Muslim" to be quite strange. Is a Muslim's faith that weak that a law is needed to stop the temptation to convert to another faith?

lol you couldnt resist...


is this the same Morrocco that banned hijabs? :?

[shariq_0189]

I also find the charge about "shaking the faith of a Muslim" to be quite strange. Is a Muslim's faith that weak that a law is needed to stop the temptation to convert to another faith?

Peace
your reffering to A "Muslim" as all of the Muslims..some muslims might have weak faith or strong faith. And so what if they have a law about that, whats so wrong about it.

Peace. bye

[Keltoi]

Peace
your reffering to A "Muslim" as all of the Muslims..some muslims might have weak faith or strong faith. And so what if they have a law about that, whats so wrong about it.

Peace. bye

The point is compulsion in religion. I say "Muslims" because the law was obviously intended to protect "Muslims" from being converted.

[zanjabeela]

I wonder how many riots we would see if an Imaam was locked up for converting a Christian. They would obviously attack the west on their lack of 'freedom'... :heated:

Once again, it really would be interesting to see the cases of a Muslim, Imaam or not, attempting to convert anyone in the West...leave aside whether or not he would be jailed for doing so.

[Dawud_uk]

:sl:

Reuters
Wednesday, November 29, 2006; 12:40 PM


RABAT (Reuters) - A Moroccan court jailed a German tourist for six months for attempting to convert Muslims in the southern resort of Agadir, officials said on Wednesday.

The court in Agadir, Morocco's main tourist destination, found the 64-year-old man guilty of trying to "shake the faith of a Muslim," they added.


The court also fined him 500 dirhams ($60) in its verdict issued late on Tuesday.

Court officials named the German of Egyptian origin as Sadek Noshi Yassa, who was arrested last week as he was distributing books and CDs about the Christian faith to young Muslim Moroccans in the street, the officials said.

Under Moroccan law "anyone who employs incitements to shake the faith of a Muslim or to convert him to another religion" can be jailed for up to six months and fined.

The verdict came after local media reports that some Christians had launched a clandestine campaign to convert thousands of Muslim Moroccans to Christianity.

There are about 20,000 expatriate Christians in Morocco, most of them living in Rabat and Casablanca, according to estimates by European diplomats.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112900931.html

assalaamu alaykum,

another report showing how far from being a true islamic state is morocco, why do people point to this place as being a good example of islam?

seriously, i have only heard bad things about it even from moroccans who are living here.

these people are like the turks who committed kufr by removing the huddud and replacing it with fines and such like.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Keltoi]

Once again, it really would be interesting to see the cases of anyone, Imaam or not, attempting to convert anyone...leave aside whether or not he would be jailed for doing so.

Why in many Muslim countries are people now allowed to convert to another religion? Which is worse? Sharing a different message with an individual, or refusing to allow that message to be heard? I would assume most on this board would say the former was the worst. The real issue behind all of this is the double standard in the way Muslims want their religion respected in non-Muslim countries and the respect given to other faiths in Muslim countries.

[Umar001]

Lucky guy, 6 months and a 60 dollar fine, could have been stoned in some cases.

As Muezzin said, obey or change 'em or leave.

Why in many Muslim countries are people now allowed to convert to another religion? Which is worse? Sharing a different message with an individual, or refusing to allow that message to be heard? I would assume most on this board would say the former was the worst. The real issue behind all of this is the double standard in the way Muslims want their religion respected in non-Muslim countries and the respect given to other faiths in Muslim countries.

Not all of us! ;)

assalaamu alaykum,

another report showing how far from being a true islamic state is morocco, why do people point to this place as being a good example of islam?

seriously, i have only heard bad things about it even from moroccans who are living here.

these people are like the turks who committed kufr by removing the huddud and replacing it with fines and such like.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Wa Aleykum salam bro,

What would an Islamic state have done?

[Ismile]

Not suprising to me.

[Keltoi]

Lucky guy, 6 months and a 60 dollar fine, could have been stoned in some cases.

As Muezzin said, obey or change 'em or leave.



Not all of us! ;)




Wa Aleykum salam bro,

What would an Islamic state have done?

I say "Muslims" not to include every individual Muslim, but as a general description of the people I'm talking about. Wasn't intended to over-generalize.

[zanjabeela]

I wonder if it is illegal to convert a Christian to a Muslim there?:? Probably not, imagine if a Muslim were jailed for this in the West, wow

I wonder how many riots we would see if an Imaam was locked up for converting a Christian. They would obviously attack the west on their lack of 'freedom'... :heated:

Why in many Muslim countries are people now allowed to convert to another religion? Which is worse? Sharing a different message with an individual, or refusing to allow that message to be heard? I would assume most on this board would say the former was the worst. The real issue behind all of this is the double standard in the way Muslims want their religion respected in non-Muslim countries and the respect given to other faiths in Muslim countries.

Sharing a different message with the intent to convert, if somebody did not ask for the information, to deviate them from the Truth, is wrong. Definitely. And refusing to allow the message to be heard is also wrong. If somebody wishes to obtain that information, I believe they should. If this man in Morocco, a guest in the country, has to go around pushing his faith into the faces of everybody around him, then what did he really expect to happen? Did he expect the Moroccans to turn a blind eye? Why did he expect that? Given that the entire world surely knows how "intolerant" Muslims are, it does not make sense.

As for the issue of the respect non-Muslim countries give to other faiths--thats a great thing. For the most part, we as Muslims reciprocate by not asking anybody to convert. Most Muslims share information regarding our faith only when we are asked. We don't send missionaries door-to-door; we don't send missionaries in the guise of tourists to "save" people. We don't stand around distributing literature telling you how wrong and misguided you are. We let our faith speak for itself...most of us anyhow. You might be dying to ask if our faith is speaking for itself when people riot over ignorant, racist, and vile cartoons--but I think we all know that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The riots are not the best reaction--but neither were the cartoons were not the best action. The riots did not come out of nowhere, for no reason, out of a vaccuum.

So please, put the riot thing to proper perspective, rather than using it as pointless sarcasm in a completely unrelated case. Thanks!

[Agnostic]

Why in many Muslim countries are people now allowed to convert to another religion? Which is worse? Sharing a different message with an individual, or refusing to allow that message to be heard? I would assume most on this board would say the former was the worst. The real issue behind all of this is the double standard in the way Muslims want their religion respected in non-Muslim countries and the respect given to other faiths in Muslim countries.

You must remember that leaving Islam is punishable by death so its probably for there own good to discourage people from converting

[north_malaysian]

In Malaysia:

"Proselytizing of Muslims by members of other religions is STRICTLY PROHIBITED, although proselytizing of Non Muslims faces no similar obstacle. The Government restricts the distribution in peninsular Malaysia of Malay-Language translations of the bible, Christian tapes, and other printed materials. In 2005, Prime Minister declared that copies of the Malay-Language Bibles must have the words "NOT FOR MUSLIMS" printed on the front and could be distributed only in churches and Christian Bookshops.

On April 2005, two foreign Christian missionaries were arrested after distributing religious materials in front of a mosque in Putrajaya and were charged with "DISTURBING THE PEACE IN RELIGIOUS MANNER." After 10 days, the Government dismissed the charges against the two men and release them."

Source: U.S Dept. of State, Int'l Religious Freedom Report 2005.

[north_malaysian]

Also from the same source:

Greece

The Constitution establishes the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ as the prevailing religion, and provides for freedom of religion. The Constitution PROHIBITS proselytizing and stipulated that no rite of worship may disturb public order or offend moral principles

The Orthodox Church, Judaism and Islam are THE ONLY groups considered to be "LEGAL PERSONS OF PUBLIC LAW."

[Umar001]

Well I guess it does make sense, if you believe that a faith is true then you wouldn't really want others coming and fooling people to join another faith.

[Malaikah]

:sl:

^Exaclty.

I also find the charge about "shaking the faith of a Muslim" to be quite strange. Is a Muslim's faith that weak that a law is needed to stop the temptation to convert to another faith?

The people have a right over the Islamic government to protect them, and that includes protecting their faith. It would be foolish to assume that every Muslim is strong in faith. Many of them are not but many of them try to become stronger in faith. We don't want people trying to convert us to different religions while we are in that state of weak faith, it is something we will be grateful for when our faith strengthens.

There is no need to assume that everyone is perfect (in this case, perfect in faith), because the reality is they are not, and it is up to the government to help protect them.

(Not that morroco is doing a good job, but my reply was in general anyway)

[Malaikah]

The real issue behind all of this is the double standard in the way Muslims want their religion respected in non-Muslim countries and the respect given to other faiths in Muslim countries.

No, that is not a double standard. Most non-Muslim countries are secular states so what right do they have to single out anyone based on their religion?? If you claim to be a free secular country then you better act like one! Their countries are not ruled by any specific religion, so they cant make these kind of rules. If they prohibit the spread of anyone religion then they have to apply the same rule to all religions.

On the other hand the Muslim countries are ruled by Islamic law (not really but lets just assume it is so), so the government is not separate from religion, so then you have to expect that the laws will be religion-specific. The same goes for any country ruled by a religious, non-secular system.

[Dawud_uk]

Why in many Muslim countries are people now allowed to convert to another religion? Which is worse? Sharing a different message with an individual, or refusing to allow that message to be heard? I would assume most on this board would say the former was the worst. The real issue behind all of this is the double standard in the way Muslims want their religion respected in non-Muslim countries and the respect given to other faiths in Muslim countries.

keltoi,

if the uk wishes to make dawah to islam illegial that is there business, whilst it isnt i will use it. however in islam it is illegial, this is the shariah and is our law coming directly from God and we dont compromise it or say God might have been right in the past but is wrong now and so that we know better than God and his prophet (peace be upon him).

i respect your laws here in the lands of disbelief, and live by them. you should do the same in the lands of islam and so should the missionaries, i.e dont go there because what you are doing is illegial.

Abu Abdullah

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

imagine if a Muslim were jailed for this in the West, wow

Nah we just get capped. Or deported to gitmo - whichever is more convenient in the way of the "war on terror" and all that :p.

[Agnostic]

:sl:

Nah we just get capped. Or deported to gitmo - whichever is more convenient in the way of the "war on terror" and all that :p.

I don't believe Ive ever heard of anyone being killed or jailed in the west or at least the USA for spreading the word of Islam

[aamirsaab]

I don't believe Ive ever heard of anyone being killed or jailed in the west or at least the USA for spreading the word of Islam

I meant, muslims get shot before even thinking about, let alone converting anyone to Islam. All in the name of terror and so on and so forth.

[MTAFFI]

i will say if the laws say dont do it, then dont do it, however i dont agree with the laws, the man did violate them and is dealt with accordingly

[Lina]

:sl:

Well,

They even hand out 'conversion kits' to morrocan muslims at the spanish border.

Also, there's a high number of moroccan muslims converting to Christianity in Morocco.

Rabat - Morocco’s Islamic leaders are concerned with the increase in the number of Moroccans who are converting to Christianity: these now number 1,000 compared to some 400 a decade ago. Many of the converts have joined Protestant and Evangelical churches whose missionaries are active in the overwhelmingly Muslim North African country, according to a report by pan-Arab satellite TV station al-Arabiya. “We’re more than 1,000 and we have some 50 churches present in towns and cities throughout the country,” Abdel Halim, a 57-year-old physician who converted to the Evangelical faith 16 years ago, told al-Arabiya.




Feshkel...

[Bittersteel]

evangelism of any religion should be banned.and I mean any religion.
answering questions about religion and trying to convert are different things.

[Keltoi]

I believe conversion to be fine, regardless of the faith, as long as it is done without compulsion of any kind. I get slightly annoyed with missionaries in South America and elsewhere who go among the indigenous population, who are terrified and confused about the strange world that is growing around them, and promise them safety and the like if they convert to Christianity. However, conversion based only on faith is completely natural.

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

In this case it is clear cut would you not say..

The christian are trying DESPITE the law.

If you go a coutnry do you follow its laws?Yes or No

In Asia we drive on the right,,should we do that in coutnries that drive on the left?

In Malay we have a saying,,Di mana kaki pijak,di situ langit di junjung..

Respect where you are,do not break the laws..
Respect the people...
Respect the community.

I am very sure that some westerner say,hey then can muslim convert christians..
Well first thing,,Dakwah is done for those who asks,,,,not seeked.

I chat with a white caucasian and he said,you are trying to covnert the world to Islam..

and i said,,I dont care about you not your decision to enter ****ation or salvation,it is your choice.
You care about your self i shall care for me and mine,.,,so there...


I hope the westerner lose their ego thinking that muslim make it an article of faith to get converts..LOL

[Lina]

I believe conversion to be fine, regardless of the faith, as long as it is done without compulsion of any kind. I get slightly annoyed with missionaries in South America and elsewhere who go among the indigenous population, who are terrified and confused about the strange world that is growing around them, and promise them safety and the like if they convert to Christianity. However, conversion based only on faith is completely natural.

Yes,

That also happened in Nigeria.

It was said by a sheikh (forgot his name) who visited Nigeria last year and was told by Nigerians that missionaries in Nigeria offered them aid for conversion to Christianity in return.

(Don't have that lecture right now, will find it Insha'Allah/God willing)

[Pietro]

Yes,

That also happened in Nigeria.

It was said by a sheikh (forgot his name) who visited Nigeria last year and was told by Nigerians that missionaries in Nigeria offered them aid for conversion to Christianity in return.

(Don't have that lecture right now, will find it Insha'Allah/God willing)

My church does a lot of mission work in Africa and this is what happens. They set up camp in a village and they hand out food for the week. At the end of the week they post that they are gonna have a church revival normally on Friday. They don't force anyone to convert now do they withhold food from anyone. Missionaries are under strict rules not to preach to the villagers unless they come to them first in fear that people my think that the food is based on conversion. My church don't expect anything out of it except to help people. It's their own decision if they come to Christ