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Seeker-of-ilm
12-14-2006, 04:17 PM
:sl:
Big salam to everyone...its my first post so everyone please, be gentle...:)
Just wanted to relate to you some things that I have noticed being a Muslim in Australia, I was wondering if anyone can relate out there.
hamdulilah, the brothers I hang with come from diverse backgrounds and ethnicities but some points I have noticed that are common to nearlly all of
them :
1. slandering muslim rulers: Its become almost 'in vogue'..do people think that the serious punishments of backbiting, slander don't apply wen we r talking about rulers?? Its also amazing that when this subject is broached, no one has time for the many hadiths concerning this subject..

2. islamic rule will fix everything: Really?? if we get the islamic state we all hope for tomorow by some miracle will things really change? will ppl start making salat 5 times a day in the mosque, never miss fajr again, sisters will all wear hijab, etc. Most likely if we get this state tomorow it will be MUSLIMS, who don't know their deen who tear it back down....(remember the lesson of Islam in spain).. the case of hijab in tunis, morroco, turkey is sufficient evidence

3.Iconic/cultural islam: E.g. I gave a brother a book on the Prophet (alihi al salat wal salm) as a eid present this year...this brother, may Allah preserve him and guide us all, was nervous about putting it in his bag (it was a bit dirty) as a mark of respect to the Prophets name..when he said this to me i just cracked up laughin and said to him "Brother ur worried about that wen u just told me that u didnt fast HALF of ramadan?? subhanallah...wallah ajib!" It was a bit rude to react like that i admit, but i couldn't help it... I can give u many more examples but i think this one rams home my point...

A brother i never met befor said something to me this ramadan at salat taraweh that has stuck with me for its simplicity and truthfulness...As we were trying to leave the masjid amongst the HUGE number of people he said "mashallah...where ar all this peopl wen it is salat al fajr? walahi, if we get this much people coming to fajr here regularly there will be no Israel tomrow!"

thanks for letting me share... salam
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Skillganon
12-14-2006, 08:17 PM
Brother everyone has shorcoming. So over look their faults.
Our Job is to encourage them to do good and forbid the bad without trying to hit a home round everytime we do it or make ourselve feel good by exposing someone fault's.
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Umar001
12-14-2006, 08:29 PM
Part of something I've been reading:

And we have mentioned - and I am trying to summarize my words as much as possible - many times that what has befallen the Muslims today, this humiliation and abasement/ignominy that has not been known in the history of Islaam at all, is that the Muslims have misapplied, at the very least, one verse of the Qur'ân....and that is the saying of Allaah: "If you help Allaah, Allaah will Help you."

And there is no doubt that this Help of the Muslims from Allaah, is Help in making the Laws of the Sharee'ah an observable reality, and this unfortunately is not realized in the majority of the Islamic lands, or in the Muslim individuals. And those amongst the Muslim lands that do have some remnants of ruling by the Law of Allaah have not, up till now proclaimed the call to Jihaad.

.................................


And due to this we mention now, that it is upon the Muslim youth as individuals and groups and sects that they spread the correct Islamic awareness in the lands firstly, and then in the rulers secondly - and that (correct understanding) is that all of these people rule by what Allaah (Subhaanawata'ãlaa) has revealed.

- The ruler, that he rules by what Allaah has revealed and ordered.

- The individual that he rules by what Allaah has revealed...

I know that today many of the individuals, and groups and sects, throw the responsibility (of the state of affairs) onto the rulers only, while in my certain belief the responsibility equally falls upon these individuals, groups and sects, as it falls upon these rulers!

This is because these governments arose from the lands of these Muslims.....these Muslims who were addressed by two Ahaadeeth from the Messenger Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam)... the first his (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) saying,
"When you deal with interest, and hold fast to the tail of the cow, and become contented with agriculture, and you leave Jihaad in the Way of Allaah, Allaah will permit your humiliation and will not lift it from you until you return to your Deen."

And the second Ahaadeeth, his (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) saying, "The nations summon each other upon you as you call guests to eat from a plate of food", They said , "will we be few in number on that day O Messenger of Allaah?" He (sallallaahu` alaihiwa sallam) said, "No, rather you will be many on that day, but you will be like the foam on the ocean. And Allaah will remove the fear in the hearts of your enemies and place in your hearts al-wahn". They said, "what is al-wahn O Messenger of Allaah?" He said, "Love of this world and hatred of death."

And these occurrences which are mentioned by the Messenger Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) in this Ahaadeeth have now occurred in every Muslim society, and they are from the clear afflictions that necessitate the descent of this humiliation upon the Muslims until the hearts of the rulers, and individuals become totally covered in black (due to their sins).

Emphasis Mine.
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IbnAbdulHakim
12-14-2006, 08:33 PM
:salamext:

Does the backbiting rule apply to corrupt leaders who openly expose their corrupt ways? im just wondering because i dont knowd honestly.

Bro i understand what you mean about the ramadan thing, they notice the ant and miss the elephant. SubhanAllaah
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Al_Imaan
12-14-2006, 08:38 PM
:sl:
u know Seeker-of-Ilm...my dad has been eating his brain cells out by saying that masjids r filled with people when its friday prayers and tarawih...no one ever listens to him...i guess hearin it from u made me realize that...i guess there isn't sufficient brotherhood
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Umar001
12-14-2006, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
:sl:
u know Seeker-of-Ilm...my dad has been eating his brain cells out by saying that masjids r filled with people when its friday prayers and tarawih...no one ever listens to him...i guess hearin it from u made me realize that...i guess there isn't sufficient brotherhood
Lol tell your dad he's got my sympathy, I find it so annoying the whoe masjid empty thing. Argh
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FBI
12-14-2006, 09:43 PM
:sl:

slandering muslim rulers: Its become almost 'in vogue'..do people think that the serious punishments of backbiting, slander don't apply wen we r talking about rulers?? Its also amazing that when this subject is broached, no one has time for the many hadiths concerning this subject..
It's permissable to warn follow muslims of devient ideologies, It's the duty of a muslim to speak out against such rulers but a muslim should keep it cival and choose his words carefully.
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Al_Imaan
12-15-2006, 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Lol tell your dad he's got my sympathy, I find it so annoying the whoe masjid empty thing. Argh
:sl:
u know Al Habeshi...i dont realize y the whole masjid empty thing @ fajr is so big...is it a fardh for muslims(i guess only men) to go to the masjid to pray fajr? ..or can they pray it at home...and if u ask me...u cant pray Friday prayers @ home so obviously u wont find the masjid empty on fridays...and tarawih is also easier to pray in masjids rather than praying it @ home by urself...but fajr (like all the other prayers) can be prayed at home..rite?

:w:
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Umar001
12-15-2006, 12:34 AM
Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
:sl:
u know Al Habeshi...i dont realize y the whole masjid empty thing @ fajr is so big...is it a fardh for muslims(i guess only men) to go to the masjid to pray fajr? ..or can they pray it at home...and if u ask me...u cant pray Friday prayers @ home so obviously u wont find the masjid empty on fridays...and tarawih is also easier to pray in masjids rather than praying it @ home by urself...but fajr (like all the other prayers) can be prayed at home..rite?

:w:

Ok, well two things:

1. Fajr, well I have read Fajr and Isha are meanto be prayed in the masjid, some people don't have to but I have read that those escuse are those that live a certain distance that might be too far to travel, but anyhow, Fajr and Isha, aparently theres something about hippocrates finding it hard to pray in the masjid. So its important, very. But please check that out dont take my word for it.

2. It is not just about it being fard, for me personally, when I see people come to the masjid it in alot of cases indicates that a person's mind or heart is in the right place, I don't mean that everyone who comes masjid does not go home and sin or that people who don't come masjid are at home sinning, thats not what I mean, but you see, when someone builds their life around their prayers and comes to the masjid for them, it kind of indicates that this person has the masjid as a second home, I don't know if that makes sense, its hard to explain.
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Seeker-of-ilm
12-15-2006, 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
:sl:
...but fajr (like all the other prayers) can be prayed at home..rite?

:w:
From my investigations on this matter it is only obligatory to pray in the masjid for one who can hear the call (i.e. adhan), otherwise it is just highly recommended. Jum'a on the other hand is definately obligatory no matter if u hear the call or not.
"Prayer in congregation is obligatory for every able-bodied man who hears the call....What is meant by hearing the call is that a person can hear the adhaan if it is given at a normal volume without loudspeakers"
Some evidence : It was narrated that Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari said: “Whoever hears the muezzin and does not respond with no excuse, his prayer is not valid.”

It was narrated that ‘Ali said: “There is no prayer for a neighbour of the mosque except in the mosque.” It was said, “Who is the neighbour of the mosque?” He said, “Whoever can hear the muezzin.”

From Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him): The basic principle is that you should attend prayers in congregation in the mosque with the people if you are in a place where you can hear the adhaan without a loudspeaker because you are near the mosque. If you are in a far place where you cannot hear the call to prayer even with a loudspeaker, then pray in congregation where you are.
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chacha_jalebi
12-15-2006, 02:43 AM
lol the last bit is funny :p if this much people attend the mosque there will be no israel :p :D erm whats israel got to do with ppl goin mosque :p,

if people undastood the deen, they would know that killin innocents 1st of all is a big massive sin :D :p so the last point although funny, is a bit dum :p

point 2 is really good bro :D its true, we cant jus say if theres islamic rules tings will be kool, no they wont! people have to fix themselfs 1st, as it says in hadiths in bukhari, wen u stretch ur hand towards Allah (swt) he stretches his arms to you! so the more closer we get to Allah (swt) the more close he will get 2 us:D, we have to fix ourselfs, den automaticaly a islamic environment will appear inshallah :D

good post though :D
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Umar001
12-15-2006, 02:48 AM
Originally Posted by Seeker-of-ilm
From my investigations on this matter it is only obligatory to pray in the masjid for one who can hear the call (i.e. adhan), otherwise it is just highly recommended. Jum'a on the other hand is definately obligatory no matter if u hear the call or not.
"Prayer in congregation is obligatory for every able-bodied man who hears the call....What is meant by hearing the call is that a person can hear the adhaan if it is given at a normal volume without loudspeakers"
Some evidence : It was narrated that Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari said: “Whoever hears the muezzin and does not respond with no excuse, his prayer is not valid.”

It was narrated that ‘Ali said: “There is no prayer for a neighbour of the mosque except in the mosque.” It was said, “Who is the neighbour of the mosque?” He said, “Whoever can hear the muezzin.”

From Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him): The basic principle is that you should attend prayers in congregation in the mosque with the people if you are in a place where you can hear the adhaan without a loudspeaker because you are near the mosque. If you are in a far place where you cannot hear the call to prayer even with a loudspeaker, then pray in congregation where you are.

That's what I had read, but could not remember where lol. What's the source bro.
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Malaikah
12-15-2006, 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by Seeker-of-ilm
1. slandering muslim rulers: Its become almost 'in vogue'..do people think that the serious punishments of backbiting, slander don't apply wen we r talking about rulers?? Its also amazing that when this subject is broached, no one has time for the many hadiths concerning this subject..
Can you provide these hadiths then?
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Seeker-of-ilm
12-15-2006, 03:26 AM
Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=39054&ln=eng
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=21498&ln=eng

Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
lol the last bit is funny :p if this much people attend the mosque there will be no israel :p :D erm whats israel got to do with ppl goin mosque :p,

.. we cant jus say if theres islamic rules tings will be kool, no they wont! people have to fix themselfs 1st, as it says in hadiths in bukhari, wen u stretch ur hand towards Allah (swt) he stretches his arms to you! so the more closer we get to Allah (swt) the more close he will get 2 us:D, we have to fix ourselfs, den automaticaly a islamic environment will appear inshallah :D

good post though :D
Brother u just answered your own question without realising it...lol The point the brother was making is if we go back to our deen then Allah will lift the miserable condition we are in
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Al_Imaan
12-15-2006, 03:28 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

Ok, well two things:

1. Fajr, well I have read Fajr and Isha are meanto be prayed in the masjid, some people don't have to but I have read that those escuse are those that live a certain distance that might be too far to travel, but anyhow, Fajr and Isha, aparently theres something about hippocrates finding it hard to pray in the masjid. So its important, very. But please check that out dont take my word for it.

2. It is not just about it being fard, for me personally, when I see people come to the masjid it in alot of cases indicates that a person's mind or heart is in the right place, I don't mean that everyone who comes masjid does not go home and sin or that people who don't come masjid are at home sinning, thats not what I mean, but you see, when someone builds their life around their prayers and comes to the masjid for them, it kind of indicates that this person has the masjid as a second home, I don't know if that makes sense, its hard to explain.
:sl:
thanx for the info...i like ur second suggestion. and it does make sense..but i guess for the first suggestion..i gotta get more info cuz im seriously confused, since i hear this at home alot(as well as this thread) when it comes to talking about prayers and the masjid..etc..anyway..thanx to all
:w:
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Seeker-of-ilm
12-15-2006, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Can you provide these hadiths then?
:sl:
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “The best among your Imams (rulers) are those whom you love and they love you, pray (make supplication) for you and you pray for them, and the worst of your rulers are those whom you hate and they hate you and you curse them and they curse you.”

Someone asked: “O Messenger of Allah! Shall we confront them with swords?

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “No, as long as they hold prayers among you. If you see from your rulers what you hate, hate the action they do but do not rebel against them.” [Sahîh Muslim]

There are many hadiths about this topic...i think u can find a lengthy answer under one of the threads concerning saudi arabia in the 'world affairs' forum.
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