/* */

PDA

View Full Version : Sign the Petition:Why we stand for immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Iraq



Muslim Woman
12-20-2006, 02:09 AM
I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)


&&&

We call on the U.S. to get out of Iraq — not in six months, not in a year, but now.

Sign the Petition:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/OutNow
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Darkseid
01-08-2007, 12:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)


&&&

We call on the U.S. to get out of Iraq — not in six months, not in a year, but now.

Sign the Petition:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/OutNow
You won't be able to make George Bush send his troops away with a petition. The best manner of sending the troops back is to help end the fighting and bombing taken place in Iraq. That way the democrats (enemies of Bush) would have no alternative other than to force Bush's troops out of Iraq.
Reply

brenton
01-08-2007, 02:23 AM
I'm not sure how the civil war in Iraq will go if the Americans leave. The first declared Democratic candidate is for leaving Iraq quickly. Americans have really screwed up the country; I'm not certaining abandoning ship is best.
Reply

Woodrow
01-08-2007, 02:48 AM
In my opinion the petition does not go far enough.

In order to do some good the petition needs to contain a contingency to prevent further chaos resulting from the withdrawal of American Forces.

Something along the line of:

The USA in addition to withdrawing from Iraq, needs to provide an acceptable Iraqi iterim government with sufficient funding equal to at least actual costs but no less than 50% of the average monthly expenses to maintain a military force for as long as it has been in Iraq. This money will be used for the pupose of paying for a peacekeeping force and reconstruction. It will remain in effect until Iraq has been restored to no less than 90% of it's pre-invasion economy.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Muslim Woman
01-11-2007, 09:01 AM
Salaam/peace;

Many more sons will die while the Democrats do nothing to stop the war

http://tinyurl.com/yydw5x


They have failed to take on the principal reason they were elected and, tragically, the US public is unlikely to force them to

By Gary Younge



"There are two who have died for all of us today," said the army chaplain, Major Timothy Mattison. "Jesus and the US soldier. Jesus died for the freedom of the soul; the US soldier died for the freedom of our land."

Days like these have become all too common in Michigan recently. As the nation marked the 3,000th military death in Iraq, eight families in the state were preparing to bury their young men.

Every day bar New Year's Day saw at least one funeral here. Last Saturday there were three.
Reply

Darkseid
01-12-2007, 01:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by brenton
I'm not sure how the civil war in Iraq will go if the Americans leave. The first declared Democratic candidate is for leaving Iraq quickly. Americans have really screwed up the country; I'm not certaining abandoning ship is best.
Well we certainly know it couldn't get that much worse than it already is. Iraq is primarily divided into three groups (actually five if you count the Iraqi Turkmen and the Assyrians) and the Americans are only allowing one group to hold power over the entire country. Plus they are also doing the very thing they fear doing, which makes no sense at all. Does it make sense of Americans to side with the Shi'a if the American's fear Iran, which is Shi'a state?

But you see, this isn't the Americans' fault. The American people really aren't in charge of what they do. They have a president who can easily do what he wants and should be placed into a facility for the mentally challenged and possibly also for the psychologically unstable. (I'm sorry if that sounded a bit too fowl) In addition, he only has a 20 or 30 percent approval rating for his actions so the vast majority of Americans hate their own president. However, the American people don't even vote in their own president. The president is voted in by the electorial college, which is elective design that favor the wealthy and successful people over the poor and discriminated.

The President has power to control the arm forces and can even counter the decisions of the legislature with a veto. And even if they succeed with an overwhelming majority refutal the president can still get in his appointed Supreme Court to declare the actions of the legislature as being unconstitutional. Things would have been a lot better for the people of the Middle East and America overall if the United States had adopted a better form of government. You can't really blame the people that much, though some of them really are to blame, because they don't have control over their own government. The great thing is that Bush can only serve as much as eight years in office and that's it. But it still doesn't change things with how the government works.

My idea was to have the Kurds, Assyrians, and Iraqi Turkmen go into their own independent states or semi-independent states, which are indepedent of Iraq as a whole. I think that would be one great idea and then at the same time create two states with one being pro-Sunni and the other pro-Shi'a. And let that be the structure of Iraq. I wish America had taken that decision, since it would have prevented them from going into a civil war during the nineteenth century.

Nevertheless, you could have a Shi'a state that encompasses Samarra and a good majority of Southeastern Iraq and you could have a Sunni state that encompasses Zubair and much of Northern Iraq with the exception of that which is given to the Kurds, Iraqi Turkmen, and Assyrians. You could make a distruct in Baghdad and have those two states. Maybe even make their be four or even more states just to have Zubair and Samarra somewhat independent of the rest of Shi'a and Sunni Iraq. Then you could have four states and would use the district of Baghdad as a tie-breaker on public decisions. You could have a federal senate encompassing an equal number of members from each of these four states and have the President of the Senate be elected from one of the loser of candidates for the presidential election. This way if the Sunni lost in an election their leader could control the flow of legislation in the Senate, while the Shi'a have control of the executive and the Popular Legislative House (national assembly or house of representatives or ect). You could have the third branch of Government (the Judicial) controlled by an equal representation of Sunnis and Shi'as and have the final member be an elected Sufi that is equally liked by both Sunni and Shi'a. This way you could have an equally and fairly assembly government that both the Sunni and Shi'a can enjoy.

You could even give each state their own state constitutions which are Pro-Sunni or Shi'a, while the country goes by the middle path. This could eventually change to a more pro-population vote. But if both communities really want peace and that's all then they should try to work together in a bi-partisanship. At least they could give America a run for its money, by showwing them that they can get along without American intervention.

Did anyone ever try to think of something like that?

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
In my opinion the petition does not go far enough.

In order to do some good the petition needs to contain a contingency to prevent further chaos resulting from the withdrawal of American Forces.

Something along the line of:

The USA in addition to withdrawing from Iraq, needs to provide an acceptable Iraqi iterim government with sufficient funding equal to at least actual costs but no less than 50% of the average monthly expenses to maintain a military force for as long as it has been in Iraq. This money will be used for the pupose of paying for a peacekeeping force and reconstruction. It will remain in effect until Iraq has been restored to no less than 90% of it's pre-invasion economy.
You want a successful government. I am quite sure I could establish a successful government for you and I am even quite sure you or anyone else here could establish a successful government. The reason why it isn't working in Iraq is because of Bush. He wants glory for himself and even if that means sacrificing hundreds of thousands of Americans.

But I don't think what you are saying is a good idea overall. You can't expect the Americans to acheive that goal with the person who is in charge right now. Do you know that Americans are spending over two-hundred and fifty million dolars a day on this conflict alone? Americans won't have the money when this is over with to do anything.

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace;

Many more sons will die while the Democrats do nothing to stop the war

http://tinyurl.com/yydw5x


They have failed to take on the principal reason they were elected and, tragically, the US public is unlikely to force them to
You can't listen to everything that the media is saying. For instance, their are democrats that urge just sending the troops back from Iraq. But they aren't the majority of people speaking. And congress can't do much of anything to stop Bush.
Reply

Muezzin
01-12-2007, 03:34 PM
The American and British governments made the current mess in Iraq; I don't think they should leave until they've cleaned it up.
Reply

Skillganon
01-12-2007, 04:35 PM
I think they should leave and pay massive compensation from their own pocket. Dividing Iraq into pockets will not achieve anything, more likely to burst.
I suggest, well not really hoping is that those two group unite on a common goal (which in some cases they have) which will be the primary goal to start pumping holes as much as possible into the american allied troops to facillitate their removal. Keep on with it and never stop until they leave beaten.

One has to realise the U.S primarily is part of the problem in Iraq so they have to be removed willingly or unwillingly (not to mention in other parts of the world).
Reply

Darkseid
01-13-2007, 03:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
The American and British governments made the current mess in Iraq; I don't think they should leave until they've cleaned it up.
It is true that you need to take responsibility for your actions. But maybe we should wait until the next president is in office to do something for Iraq. Bush, well Bush isn't really a smart guy to know what to do. In fact, he's not smart at all. However, Obama seems like the kind of guy to get things done. Obama is an African American that will probably run for presidency and if he is anything like Theodore Roosevelt (America's greatest president and possibly one of the top ten world's greatest leaders), we'll be seeing some actual progress.

The problems we are facing right now are the following:

1) The president of the United States is incompetent and not the right guy to solve problems.

2) Iran posses a threat to the United States.

3) The United States is to prideful and ashamed to back out.

4) The United States is pressured by Israel and Saudi Arabia to stay in the fight.

5) Although a good majority of Americans are very nice and respectful people, there is still a large population of Americans that are like their president or worse.

6) Americans have a 18th century government and are moving into the 21st century. Which isn't that bad considering that some countries have worse governments like Saudi Arabia and the Vatican.

:And now about Britain:

Well Britain is just full of snobs and people that want to do good, but aren't really intelligent enough to fully grasp the situation they are in. However, all people are like that in one way or another, unless they try to create or design new governments that could provide much better service for the people.

I think everyone on this planet should be trying to help, support, encourage, or be those people that are trying to make better governments for each country. And that's where the actual problem lies in at. People don't want their species to exist. People would rather have other people solve their problems or live in a life of luxioury or just wait till they are near death so they can go to supposively a better place. People just don't get it. What life's all about and what they should be doing.

They don't understand why sloth, greed, and pride are sins. They don't understand why Muhammad and other prophets encourage people to use diplomacy before war and to treat their enemies with mercy and respect. It's all about survival of our own species and no one else quite frankly wants to do anything.

We should and I think it is about time we at least try.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
I think they should leave and pay massive compensation from their own pocket.
Out of what? Americans are spending 250,000,000 dolars a day. That's a ton of money. It is enough to buy Iraq and that is being spent each and every single day for about four to three years. So what do you think Americans are going to have when this war is over with or when they finally remove their troops? Did you know that they are borrowing money from Saudi Arabia and China to pay for this war? They are innocent people that are being forced into a war, simply to profit the minority of Americans that already have everything.

Should those that had voted for Kerry suffer for what Bush has done? Do you think Bush's opponent in the 2004 election would have America in the same circumstance that it is already in?

You see, you're not thinking straight at all about this issue. There is nothing right in forcing the American peopel to spend further costs on the war when they just want the fighting to stop. You probably think all Americans are evil or something. They aren't. Americans are no different than Canadians, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Brazilians, Iranians, Egyptians, British, French, Russians, Afghanis, Jordans, Swedes, Italians, Spanish, Germans, Indians, and everyone else for that matter. They just have a dumb president, for which they didn't even voted for into office.

What I'm saying is that people are the same regardless of their religion and their location and it is wrong to just simply persecute all of them. Because then you are just persecuting all of humanity, including those innocent Iraqis.

However, you can blame it on Bush, just don't blame it out on the Americans. Trust me, if they were running their own country, then this circumstance in Iraq would have never came up in the first place.

Dividing Iraq into pockets will not achieve anything, more likely to burst.
Keeping it together would make it burst. It is like stacking books on top of each other in an unstable manner. Keeping them apart, well the correct words are: "They would just easily be swept up by Iran or someone nearby."

I suggest, well not really hoping is that those two group unite on a common goal (which in some cases they have) which will be the primary goal to start pumping holes as much as possible into the american allied troops to facillitate their removal.
I am quite certain that Muhammad as a pacifist would certainly disagree with your idea. Why? Because Muhammad is a pacifist and you are encouraging further bloodshed. So why are you encouraging further bloodshed?

No you see, the best idea is to get these two groups to stop attacking each other so that the troops will move out. And then get this into the media. Once it has been known about that the Sunnis and Shi'as, then Bush will likely be removed for not sending his troops back home. However, he may just take over like a dictator and then hopefully you'll see that it isn't the American people's fault.

And you see the Democrats have only been in office for only two weeks and I've been hearing this bad talk about them doing nothing since November of the previous year. Come on, they finally got into office since the beginning of this January (which is when they do actually get into the positions given to them) and then you want immediante results when they are just legislators. They aren't military commanders (although some of them might have been in the past) nor are they executive officials. Their power is very limited to just debudgeting the president. Who could in return just take over as a dictator and then what? America would then just be another Iraq. In fact it already has been an Iraq for quite some time as America does have its own problems. I hope you stop attacking them for once. Attack their incompetent president and stop attacking them.

They are fairly good people that are no different than your own people and I'm quite sure Muhammad would have told you the same.

Keep on with it and never stop until they leave beaten.
Geez aren't you quite the humanitarian? I can see you hate Americans. Too bad most of them are just like you.

One has to realise the U.S primarily is part of the problem in Iraq so they have to be removed willingly or unwillingly (not to mention in other parts of the world).
I've been actively supporting U.S. isolationism (a policy America had taken to stay out of the problems of the world during the early twentieth century). But I don't see you rallying onto my causes and my ideas. No, I see you supporting the very opposite.

If you want Americans to leave right now, then just force the Sunnis and the Shi'as in Iraq to get along. Then declare their peace world-wide. PBS will surely show it on TV. If you want there to be peace, then please stop supporting bloodshed. Don't you know that you should show mercy to your foes?

Let's get the war over with people. Let's get the American forces out and not have then serving another two years. You do not have to actively support further hostilities as the best solution to this problem.

And what? You think Americans are really so evil? WAKE UP! Everyone is evil or should I say everyone has evil in them. (As well as good by the way) So don't discriminate against people because of this. There is a muslim representative in the United States House of Representatives. Are you going to blame him too?

Edit: Sorry, my grammar isn't the best and wasn't fully awake while typing this post.
Reply

Skillganon
01-13-2007, 09:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Darkseid
It is true that you need to take responsibility for your actions. But maybe we should wait until the next president is in office to do something for Iraq. Bush, well Bush isn't really a smart guy to know what to do. In fact, he's not smart at all. However, Obama seems like the kind of guy to get things done. Obama is an African American that will probably run for presidency and if he is anything like Theodore Roosevelt (America's greatest president and possibly one of the top ten world's greatest leaders), we'll be seeing some actual progress.
What's with the osama and bush comparison?

I really do not think bush is an idiot he is bold and in the position to be so. Just worry about the mass.

The problems we are facing right now are the following:

1) The president of the United States is incompetent and not the right guy to solve problems.

2) Iran posses a threat to the United States.

3) The United States is to prideful and ashamed to back out.

4) The United States is pressured by Israel and Saudi Arabia to stay in the fight.

5) Although a good majority of Americans are very nice and respectful people, there is still a large population of Americans that are like their president or worse.

6) Americans have a 18th century government and are moving into the 21st century. Which isn't that bad considering that some countries have worse governments like Saudi Arabia and the Vatican.
I wonder when did one consider that bush was right to solve problem or the U.S was ever, that is if one think that they where out their for humanitarian purpose with all those tanks and bombs.


:And now about Britain:

Well Britain is just full of snobs and people that want to do good, but aren't really intelligent enough to fully grasp the situation they are in. However, all people are like that in one way or another, unless they try to create or design new governments that could provide much better service for the people.
People in people are not exactly stupid, the mistake is very much got to do with people thinking intelligent or posessing worldly knowledge is synonomous to truth and guidance and doing the right thing (and that is if they truly know).

They don't understand why sloth, greed, and pride are sins. They don't understand why Muhammad and other prophets encourage people to use diplomacy before war and to treat their enemies with mercy and respect. It's all about survival of our own species and no one else quite frankly wants to do anything.

We should and I think it is about time we at least try.
I really do not think they are really religious or it is just an identity to hold on too and taken advantage off, nothing more. Unless in tiem od distress.


Out of what? Americans are spending 250,000,000 dolars a day. That's a ton of money, enough to buy Iraq. So what do you think Americans are going to have when this is all over? Did you know that they are borrowing money from Saudi Arabia and China to pay for this war? And it isn't America's fault. It is their government's fault. Stop blaiming innocent people.
Well one can pay by percentage. The goverment was acting in the name of america and they have acted upon it supported him. I frankly think they should pay compensation for their action, and their should be people excempted from it by some criteria. The bulk of it should come out from the goverments own pocket and those private companies.

Should those that had voted for Kerry, who would have gotten America out of this war much sooner, suffer for what Bush has done?
I really don't give much credence to many politician, maybe kerry would of have done that but it maybe more to do because of a political move for vote than his actual intention, but I am not really in a position to know what his intention was so I have to take his word of it.


You see, you're not thinking straight at all about this issue. There is nothing right in forcing the spending further on the Americans citizens that just want the fighting to stop. You probably think Americans are all evil or something. They aren't. Americans are no different than Canadians, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Brazilians, Iranians, Egyptians, British, French, Russians, Afghanis, Jordans, Swedes, Italians, Spanish, Germans, Indians, and everyone else for that matter. They just have a dumb president, for which they didn't even voted into office.
I never said or think american people are all evil.

What I'm saying is that people are the same regardless of their religion and their location and it is wrong to just simply persecute all of them. Because then you are just persecuting all of humanity, including those innocent Iraqis.
Agreed.

However, you can blame it on Bush, just don't blame it out on the Americans. Trust me, if they were running their own country, then this circumstance in Iraq would have never came up in the first place.
Well some american for abeting they can't plead insanity.


Keeping it together would make it burst. Keeping them apart, well the correct words are: "They would just easily be swept up by Iran or someone nearby."
I was talking from a long term strategically and religiousely. First we need to have see that their is mainly two group but one cannot say all the people in those group hold the same views, or that predominantly they hate each other, that will be oversimplification to do so. Their are other groups in between that may share some objective, goals and understanding. So it is not exactly because it is a sunni ad Shia thing but rather this label in more ways are used as a means to a way (other reason).
Next deviding the groups into segment makes the country weaker, it is a well known policy of divide and rule tactic. Secondly deividing them will more likely to have to opposite tactic of tribalism and in the long term or in the future more suffering.


I'm am quite certain that Muhammad would definitely as a pacifist disagree with your idea. Why? Because Muhammad is a pacifist and you are encouraging further bloodshed.
The prophet Muhhammad(saw) was not exactly pacifist, their are time he fought, it is obviously something one deslike but it in a case when you are under attack it is soo. It is obvious that they attacked Iraq for their own objective and interest (whatever that maybe).

No you see, the best idea is to get this two groups to get along period so that the troops will move out. And then get this into the media. Once it has been known about that the Sunnis and Shi'as are getting along, then Bush will likely be removed for not sending his troops back home.
I agree they should get along for an common objective and that is beat the allied troop out.

They are fairly good people that are no different than your own people and I'm quite sure Muhammad would have told you the same.
Hey I am not saying their are no good american people or anything like that. I was refering to the troops in Iraq not to mention other places. This is not something that comes from hating the general american public, but mainly the action of the president and the allied troops in iraq needs to be beaten. They will not leave by their own accordance. Nothing bad intended. It is they are their and they need to be removed and aslong as they are their than it is ok, to kill them and beat them.


Geez aren't quite the humanitarian. I can see you hate Americans. Too bad most of them are just like you.
I was trying to make a point. Not feeding those while they pump bullets in your(Iraq) people.

I've been actively supporting U.S. isolationism (a policy America had taken to stay out of the problems of the world during the early twentieth century). But I don't see you rallying onto my causes and my ideas. No, I see you supporting the very opposite.
Are you sure U.S followed isolationism.

If you want Americans to leave right now, then just force the Sunnis and the Shi'as in Iraq to get along. Then make it world-wide, because PBS will surely show it on TV. If you want there to be peace, then place stop supporting bloodshed. Don't you know that you should show mercy to your foes?
So it is the fault of the sunnis and shias that america is their?
The current situation between sunni and shia actually is the fault of American Goverment. They further instigated and made the situation as possible.

Let's get the war over with people. Let's get the American forces out and not have then serving another two years, because you actively supporting further hostilities is the best solution to this problem.
Well I agree on the first part, but I am not supporting further hoostilities, I am laying it out as it is, when a country invade another country and with tanks and bombs with armed soldiers should be defended against, and driven out at all cost.


And what? You think Americans are really so evil? WAKE UP! Everyone is evil or should I say everyone has evil in them. (As well as good by the way) So don't discriminate against people, because of this. There is a muslim represenative in office. Are you going to blame him too?
I really not preacing american people generally are evil, like something out of a miedival book. I am sorry if one has miss-understood me and I apologies for it. However I do think american people in general need to wake up from their sleep.

Peace.
Reply

Darkseid
01-14-2007, 07:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
What's with the osama and bush comparison?
Well, actually anyone would make a better president than Bush. However, Obama is a senator in the United States legislation branch that is aiming to make changes that the previous presidents failed to go for. One perhaps being isolationism.

Wouldn't you support Obama if he is an isolationist? Isolationism is what everyone around the world wants Americans to consider. Because isolationism was the policy Americans had taken around the early 20th century, where they didn't do anything on a global scale and didn't involve themselves with the politics of another country.


I really do not think bush is an idiot he is bold and in the position to be so.
Oh trust me, Bush is much more than just an idiot. Bush is incompetent.

Just worry about the mass.
The mass? What do you mean by that?

I wonder when did one consider that bush was right to solve problem or the U.S was ever.
The vast majority of American's didn't approve of Bush's election into office. He became president, because of the electorial college. The electorial college is a small group of people that are supposively voted by the people to vote for them. So basically you have people voted for you and deciding for you. And these people can easily be swayed to vote for Bush just by giving each of them a tax cut and a bribe or two.

You see, you have to understand that the vast majority of Americans want to get rid of this cursive system. But until they can get someone into office that will get rid of this system and isn't pressured by big business corporations, you will never see another Theodore Roosevelt.

that is if one think that they where out there for humanitarian purpose with all those tanks and bombs.
Most Americans spend their time giving out donations to organizations that "supposively" promise to give it to the poor people in the Middle East, Central America, South America, Southeast Asia, or in Africa.

But you see those organizations are run by wealthy aristocrats that just want those innocent people's money and profit over these innocent children that aren't being taken cared for.

But you see the real problem lies in the American education system. Americans are raised and taught to think like imbeciles and have feelings just like everyone else. By doing this, the wealthy Americans can benefit from having the great teachers and providers. And at the same time, keep the poor Americans (which make up 80% of the population) from doing anything.

So you shouldn't be angry at these poor Americans that are being forced into paying for this war. You should be angry at Bush and those wealthy Americans that are benefiting off of this war.

America has its own problems that it should be focused on. Perhaps you should be preeching "help the poor Americans" rather than "kill all Americans."

It is really sad how messed up their country is and how their wealthy class citizens still benefit off of the poor.

America is suppose to be a 1st world country (at least that is the jealous tone Iran makes about it), but all of the poor Americans (80% of the people) live in a third world country like Iraq. To be honest, it is almost as bad as it is in India in a lot of ways.

People are not exactly stupid, the mistake is very much got to do with people thinking intelligent or posessing worldly knowledge is synonomous to truth and guidance and doing the right thing (and that is if they truly know).
The British don't know what the right thing is, but they are prideful enough to express their concerns as if they really do care.

But Britain has always been like this and but at least you can reason with them.

Yeah let the British do what they think is best, but advice them and enlighten them with what you think they should approach this situations they wish to be involved with.

I really do not think they are really religious or it is just an identity to hold on too and taken advantage off, nothing more. Unless in tiem od distress.
Well religion doesn't really have much to do about it. Catholics are very religious people, but they don't do anything.

The problem lies in how much they care about humanity and that is what the prophets were actually trying to provide us. They were trying to provide us with a moral sense what is right and wrong.

Most people just really aren't capable of caring about other people. George W. Bush, the king of Saudi Arabia, and many other individuals are very much the same within those regards.

Well one can pay by percentage.
How can the poor, which are the ones being forced to cough up two hundred and fifty million dollars a day be able to pay for anything?

I think just having the United States isolated and focused on its own problems without causing any more harm to the rest of the world would be the best solution. Otherwise, the extremely greedy business people from the United States are just going to mess up more countries around the world.

You think it might be allowing the Americans to get away with what they have done. But it isn't. You would be forcing the Americans to think in a manner that hurts them quite a lot. This my friend is enough punishment considering what is punishment to the Americans. Plus it will help out the suffering poor Americans and keep the greedy Americans from causing anymore harm.

The goverment was acting in the name of america and they have acted upon it supported him.
The government was thinking of the wealthy, while pretending to act for the good of America.

And not everyone in America supports their president. Alot of them of actively trying to find a means of assassinating their own president.

Trust me, they don't support him.

I frankly think they should pay compensation for their action
What action?

Should PBS be punished for openly criticizing the president?

Should MSNBC's Keith Overmann be punished for openly criticizing the president?

The United States uses its freedom of speech very actively against the president for a very long time.

The Americans are using every tactic they have to stop their president. But their president is just too incompetent. He wants to use their troops as police, instead of hunting down the actual terrorists and bringing a swift end to this conflict.

So they are 0 percent responsible for this war, except for the very wealthy and the very stupid. As a matter of fact, most Americans completely dislike any war at all ever since Vietnam. (The greatest American disappointment)

It is because of Vietnam that the neo-conservatives are able to keep their foot down onto the tirelessly protesting American majority.


and their should be people excempted from it by some criteria. The bulk of it should come out from the goverments own pocket and those private companies.
It should completely come out from the government, the private companies, and any American that ever supported the conflict. Especially anyone who is wealthy, because most Americans make less than ten dolars an hour.


I really don't give much credence to many politician, maybe kerry would of have done that but it maybe more to do because of a political move for vote than his actual intention, but I am not really in a position to know what his intention was so I have to take his word of it.
Well many politicians are liars. Bush himself is a liar. He keeps telling the American people that they are going to have victory in this conflict for about three years. So Americans are suffering about as much as the people are in Iraq.

format_quote Originally Posted by Bush's Online Biography
Time magazine named George W. Bush as its Person of the Year for 2000 and 2004, hailing him as the most influential person for these two years. Bush began his presidency with approval ratings near 50%. In the time of national crisis following the September 11 attacks, Bush enjoyed approval ratings of greater than 85% (You can thank Al Queda for that), maintaining 80–90% approval for four months after the attacks. Since then, his approval ratings and approval of handling of domestic and foreign policy issues steadily dropped. Polls conducted in early 2006 showed an average of around 40% for Bush, up slightly from the previous September, but still historically low from a President coming off his State of the Union Address, which generally provides a boost. As of November 9, 2006, an average of major polls indicated that Bush's approval rating stood at 32.0%.

At the beginning of his first term, Bush was regarded by some as lacking legitimacy due to his narrow victory in Florida and the attendant controversy surrounding his electoral college victory, which included accusations of vote suppression and tampering. Activist and filmmaker Michael Moore's 2004 movie Fahrenheit 9/11 accused Bush of using public sentiments following 9/11 for political purposes and lying about the cause for war in Iraq.

Bush enjoyed strong support among Americans holding conservative views, as well as the military and those who support a military agenda. In the 2004 elections, 95-98% of the Republican electorate approved of him. This support waned, however, due mostly to Republicans' growing frustration with Bush on the issues of spending and illegal immigration. Many Republicans began criticizing Bush on his policies in Iraq, Iran and the Palestinian Territories.

A poll taken in mid-September 2006 found that 48 percent of Americans believed the war with Iraq had made the U.S. less safe, while 41 percent believed the war had made the U.S. safer from terrorism. Another poll showed that a majority of Americans, by a margin of 61 to 35 percent, believed that the United States was not better off because of Bush's policies.

From time to time, Bush's intellectual capacities were questioned by the news media and other politicians. Detractors tended to cite the various linguistic errors made by Bush during his public speeches (colloquially known as Bushisms). Bush's habit of mispronouncing words received much ridicule in the media and in popular culture. Even as early as the 2000 presidential debates, this was the subject of a Saturday Night Live sketch (see Strategery). He is not the only American president to be criticized for this.

At the conclusion of 2006, an AP-AOL News telephone poll of 1,004 adults found President George W. Bush to be both the top villain and hero of the year. The president was followed in the villain poll by Osama bin Laden, who took in 8 percent to Bush's 25 percent, Saddam Hussein (6 percent) and Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (5 percent). In the hero poll, Bush's 13 percent was followed by: Soldiers/troops in Iraq (6 percent), Oprah Winfrey (3 percent), Barack Obama (3 percent) and Jesus Christ (3 percent).
An anti-Iraq War protester in London carries a placard calling Bush the "World's #1 Terrorist".

Bush has been widely criticized in the international community; he was targeted by the global anti-war and anti-globalization campaigns, and criticized for his foreign policy in general. Bush's policies were also the subject of heated criticism in the 2002 elections in Germany and the 2006 elections in Canada. Bush was openly condemned by current and former international leaders such as Gerhard Schröder, Jean Chrétien, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, Romano Prodi, Paul Martin, and Hugo Chavez. Later in Bush's presidency, tensions arose between himself and Vladimir Putin, which has led to a cooling of their relationship. In the same time he has good relationship with Tony Blair, Vicente Fox and some other leaders of foreign countries. Diplomatic visits made by Bush were accompanied by large-scale protests.
I never said or think american people are all evil.
Well then I appologize for that blunder. But to be fair, perhaps you should practice on not presenting argument indicating your dislike against all Americans and instead just elaborate your dislike against specific Americans (like George W. Bush or Bill Gates).


Well some americans for abeting they can't plead insanity.
Well some Americans are insane, but that's only a small minority. (1 or 2 percent)

It mostly comes from lack of unbias education. The education and healthcare for Americans is worse than it is anywhere else around the world, except for the wealthy.

I was talking from a long term strategically and religiousely. First we need to have see that their is mainly two groups but one cannot say all the people in those group hold the same views, or that predominantly they hate each other, that will be oversimplification to do so. Their are other groups in between that may share some objective, goals and understanding. So it is not exactly because it is a sunni ad Shia thing but rather this label in more ways are used as a means to a way (other reason).
Yeah the Iraqi Turkmen want to be recognized. The Assyrians want to establish a tiny little Assyrian state. The Kurds want to be independent.

But these two groups do hate each other. However, you are right to say that a good majority of Shi'as and Sunnis can get along quite well together. But if there was a means to help ease the tensions between the extremists in these groups.

Next dividing the groups into segment makes the country weaker.
No not really. That is just some false allegation.

it is a well known policy of divide and rule tactic.
Well America is divided into a federal government much as what you said would make it weak. But they are handeling it quite strongly.

So I think you are confused or you just aren't really understand politics, like you said above.

Because first of all, Iraq is a made up country and it is already divided out into states. But these states don't really represent the people and that is why you are having this civil war.

This is like making Sudan and Egypt one country and Egyptians run the show, because they have more people and therefore can win the elections.

Secondly dividing them will more likely to have to opposite tactic of tribalism and in the long term or in the future more suffering.
You are going to have to elaborate better than that. First of all the Kurds are going to have their own seperate country, no matter what.

Let them have their own country.

Let the people be happy and have what they want, which is better representation in their government.
Reply

SilentObserver
01-14-2007, 07:52 PM
Removing all troops now would be a disaster for the people. An arab force needs to be brought in to replace the US troops. Then that force should slowly withdraw as things get better.
Reply

Skillganon
01-14-2007, 07:59 PM
Darkseid, I think you have miss-understood me if you thought I was preaching Kill all American.
Reply

Darkseid
01-15-2007, 04:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Removing all troops now would be a disaster for the people.
Actually I've been told by a most assuring and reliable source that removing troops now is the only action that will cause the least number of disasters.

An arab force needs to be brought in to replace the US troops. Then that force should slowly withdraw as things get better.
I'm not so sure about that. I think putting in Chinese troops to replace US troops would make a better solution and have their actions carefully watched by Jordans and British troops would make a much better overall plan of reconstructing Iraq.

I'm quite sure that American forces being at present in Iraq is a part of the cause of this tension between the two religious groups. If the Americans were replaced with a group of people that the two extremists felt less pressured from then they may consider peace talks and such. Plus the Chinese wouldn't mind it as much to solve this problem in Iraq, no matter how long it took.

Americans are only going to mess things up more so than they have. I mean matters are getting worse as American soldiers remain in Iraq and they are only going to get worse.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Darkseid, I think you have miss-understood me if you thought I was preaching Kill all American.
No I didn't misunderstood you. I think you aren't aware of how much pride you possess.
Reply

Umm Yoosuf
01-15-2007, 05:53 PM
Such discussion should take place in the world affairs section not here.

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/

Thread closed.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-15-2009, 04:17 AM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-19-2006, 03:49 PM
  3. Replies: 44
    Last Post: 06-13-2006, 11:01 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-18-2006, 01:53 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!