/* */

PDA

View Full Version : SOMALIA: full and open war declared



mohammed farah
12-22-2006, 08:02 AM
NAIROBI, 21 December (IRIN) - The number of people fleeing the southern Somalia towns of Baidoa and Buur Hakaba swelled on Thursday as fighting between forces of the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) and the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) entered a second day, sources told IRIN.

"Yesterday [Wednesday] we had people coming from the Daynuunay area [epicenter of the fighting]. Today, many Buur residents are leaving their homes," Mukhtar Atosh, a resident of Buur Hakaba, said.

A source in Baidoa said that "people were leaving before, but the numbers were not that big. Today [Thursday] and yesterday [Wednesday] we are seeing more people leaving, including business people."

A civil society source told IRIN that the people were "leaving fearing more fighting."

"Many of the people fleeing are agro-pastoralists, who would [normally] be tending their farms and livestock, but will now be IDPs (internally displaced persons)," Abdullahi Shirwa of the Civil Society in Action, a coalition of civil-society groups, said. "If fighting continues, I am afraid we are looking a humanitarian disaster."

The fighting began on Tuesday, a day before the arrival of the European Commissioner (EC) for Development and Humanitarian Aid, Louis Michel, who was in the country to mediate between the two sides.

Michel led an EC delegation to Baidoa, where the TFG is based, for talks with President Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed and Prime Minister Ali Mohamed Gedi. He later travelled to the capital, Mogadishu, for discussions with the UIC, Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys, the chairman of the UIC Consultative Council, and other leaders.

"I am very happy to inform you all that the mission can be considered as a full success because both parties - and this is very important - reiterated their commitment to the Khartoum dialogue process, and political solution to the Somali crisis. This is the first principle that is shared by both parties," Michel told reporters on Wednesday evening in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi, on his return from Somalia.

The UIC described their meeting with Michel as positive. "We have given our commitment to attend the peace talks in Khartoum," Sheikh Abdirahman Janaqow, the UIC first vice-chairman, who attended the meeting, told IRIN on Thursday.

The TFG said their side of the talks had been open. "We had candid and frank discussions with Commissioner Michel. We have given him our views on the situation in the country and the way forward," Ali Jama Jangali, Minster of Information said.

The fighting which began in Iidale village, 55 km south of Baidoa and Buulo Jadid, 23 km north of Baidoa, spread on Thursday to the Daynunay area, 23 km north of Baidoa, according to a local resident in Buur Hakaba, 60 km north of Baidoa.

Although the fighting subsided on Wednesday evening, "it resumed with a vengeance at midnight", the Buur Hakaba resident said. He added that the southern front was "quiet early Thursday, but picked up late morning.

"Both sides, he added, were mobilising forces and seemed to be gearing up for an escalation in violence, in which both sides are claiming to have the upper hand.

Death toll rises

Medical sources told IRIN that the "death toll on both sides could be as high as 50".

"Both sides are not bringing their dead to hospitals, but the number of wounded which we estimate to be between 150 to 200, indicate that there is a high number of fatalities on both sides," said a doctor in Mogadishu currently in touch with medical personnel in Buur Hakaba and Baidoa.

The UIC are keeping their wounded in Buur Hakaba, and the TFG are taking their wounded to Baidoa, said the Doctor.

The TFG was installed in late 2004 in an effort to bring peace and security to the Horn of Africa country which has been without an effective government for 16 years. In June this year, the UIC defeated the warlords who had controlled Mogadishu since 1991, after the collapse of the regime led by Muhammad Siyad Barre. The UIC has since extended its authority to large areas in the south and central regions of the country.

ah/jm

[IRIN has produced a new film, "Somalia: A State of Need" (18 mins), which takes a balanced look at the country, the current humanitarian situation and the social impact of the Islamic Courts. The film includes rare footage of life in Mogadishu and the rural south. It is viewable online at: http://www.irinnews.org/film/.IRIN is looking at new techniques to distribute its films online in a higher-resolution format. As a trial of one technology option, we are offering a Bit Torrent download of the film at 640×480 size in MPG format. The file is about 450 MB. Please contact irinfilms@irinnews.org if you are interested.]

IRIN news
__________________
Al-Quran (8:24)
O ye who believe! give your response to Allah and His Messenger, when He calleth you to that which will give you life; and know that Allah cometh in between a man and his heart, and that it is He to Whom ye shall (all) be gathered.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
north_malaysian
12-22-2006, 08:27 AM
Why Somalis reject the Transitional Federal Government (TFG)?
Reply

mohammed farah
12-22-2006, 08:48 AM
dunno they probably prefer the law the Islamic Courts Union put in place (sharia law)
Reply

Dahir
12-22-2006, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Why Somalis reject the Transitional Federal Government (TFG)?
Lack of action, period.

Somalia has a no-standing tradition; meaning that if you make a promise, you stick to your words, even if it makes you stubborn.

And when you enter power, people want to see your actions.

The Islamic Courts have opened seized ports, new schools, markets, mosques, and they've managed to clean up Mogadishu, a task the United States could not take on!

Its much like the sitaution in Lebanon and Palestine. There is a government, trasitional or official, but they show very little effort in reaching out to the poeple, they just talk and look good for the cameras. But in those nations, Hamas and Hezbollah have shown their people the love they have; with action and fulfilled promises.

That's the case there on the cover, but the real politics is a bit deeper...
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
abhisham
12-23-2006, 04:43 AM
May Allah help our brothers there to raise the word of Allah and implement His rulings. Ameen
Reply

Karimeldib
12-23-2006, 09:40 AM
(7-96 If the people of the towns had but believed and feared Allah, We should indeed have opened out to them (all kinds of) blessings from heaven and earth;)
Fear of a good lashing or having one's head shaved is keeping drivers in Somalia's capital on the straight and narrow.
A few months ago, Mogadishu's chaotic roads were ruled by red-eyed, open-shirted militia, speeding along in their technicals - the open vehicles with anti-aircraft guns mounted on the back - weaving from one side to the other to avoid the potholes.
Today, one of the world's most dangerous cities has been tamed: law-abiding men and women motor along without a gun at their side, keeping steadily to the speed limit, and not daring to swerve for craters.
This transformation is down to the rule of the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC), which took control of Mogadishu in June and much of southern Somalia since then.
They have imposed Sharia law and are at lengths to show that no-one, no matter their clan or influence, is above God's law.
Trials are swift and punishments public: publicity is their policeman.
Applause
Most are astounded by the changes - restaurants are opening, business is booming - and people are proud to show off to visitors their new-found security.
But with reports that Ethiopian troops are in the country backing the beleaguered interim government in Baidoa and peace talks deadlocked in Khartoum, the calls for jihad grow.
It is talk that may win approval amongst the young at rallies after Friday prayers, yet behind the rhetoric the city's residents are sick and tired of the 16 years of fighting Somalia has experienced since the fall of Siad Barre.
"Jihad will mean more deaths. Why can't we use our brains to solve the political stalemate instead of fighting?" a female student recently had the temerity to ask UIC chairman Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed in a debate broadcast on the BBC Somali Service.
The 400-strong audience burst into applause before Mr Ahmed had a chance to respond.
Questions then flowed thick and fast from other women.
"Will you allow women to work in the media? Are you the Taleban?"
A known moderate, Mr Ahmed sought to allay their fears: the Islamists, he said, did not want to stop women working.
"Actually, I am happy a woman is asking this question - at a university campus," he said.
Yet it is this uncertainty about the UIC's intentions that marks life in the capital.
For now, Somalis are basking in the novelty of moving about freely, the novelty of seeing a woman behind the wheel, the novelty of militiamen greeting them politely at checkpoints, the novelty of leaving their guns at home. ( Yusuf Garaad, BBC Somali Service editor, Mogadishu)
As most of us have heard that this sense of secutrity has not been given the chance to florish. The neighboring Ethiopian government, who have stated several times that they are not willing to accept an Islamic ruled state in Somalia, and the US are supporting the removed interim government and encouraging to attack the UIC.
May Allah bless our brothers and sisters in Somalia, grant them security, and help them defeat anyone who tries to occupy their land.
Reply

rav
12-25-2006, 09:34 PM
hopefully, civilian casualties will be limited.
Reply

Trumble
12-25-2006, 10:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
hopefully, civilian casualties will be limited.
Indeed, but what appears to be more-or-less indiscriminate bombing of ICU held towns by Ethiopian planes doesn't exactly hold out much hope.

Those who have invited Ethopian involvement, such as this Mohamed Omar Habeb, are playing a very dangerous game, as are those who seek Eritrean support. Neither country has the slightest interest in Somalia or in furthering Islam (or indeed Christianity or secularism) other than what they can extort from the country; Somalia will just become a battleground for somebody else's war.
Reply

Woodrow
12-25-2006, 10:35 PM
Quite true. Sadly in most wars the invited parties only come so they can wage war against anybody they choose with no need to worry about damage to their homeland. Wars are not fought to liberate the oppressed they are fought to strengthen the strong.
Reply

Dahir
12-25-2006, 10:52 PM
I think the interim government is digging itself a hole by inviting excess amounts of Ethiopian troops and hardware. How will the interim government ever be able to speak on its own behalf if its master has boats in its own backyard.
Reply

Zulkiflim
12-26-2006, 02:46 AM
Salaam,

Ethiopia and the exiled goverment of Somalia have already shown wiht whom they bed..

Among the former warlords was Mohamed Omar Habeb ‘Mohamed Dhere’ who is with the Ethiopians and wants to recapture his Jowhar Township some 90km north of the capital.
They lust for power and greed ,,they dont care for the somalis,they only want position.

Inshallah,may they be losers in this life and the next...
Reply

north_malaysian
12-26-2006, 02:53 AM
Is it true that Eritrea sent thousands of army to help the Islamic Court?
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 03:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Is it true that Eritrea sent thousands of army to help the Islamic Court?
Probably true, but they're most likely in reserves because right now the only non-Somali militia fighting alongside the Islamic Courts are Pakistani, Afghani, and Iranian.
Reply

north_malaysian
12-26-2006, 03:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
and Iranian.
Iranians are Shiites, right? Why they are helping the Sunni Somalis?
Reply

Woodrow
12-26-2006, 03:50 AM
I was thinking the same and why aren't the Afghans helping their own people first?
Reply

rav
12-26-2006, 03:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Iranians are Shiites, right? Why they are helping the Sunni Somalis?
i thought the iranians were all in sadr city right now. :-[
Reply

north_malaysian
12-26-2006, 03:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I was thinking the same and why aren't the Afghans helping their own people first?
Good point... they have their own war.... why should they go to other country...
Reply

north_malaysian
12-26-2006, 03:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
i thought the iranians were all in sadr city right now. :-[
well...... might be..

But why Ethiopia want to wage war to Islamic Court... dont they ever think that, they might offend the Ethiopian Muslims (who constitutes 45% -50% of the population)
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 03:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

They lust for power and greed ,,they dont care for the somalis,they only want position.

Inshallah,may they be losers in this life and the next...
Of course!

Abdullahi Yusuf, the interim president, had a comfortable position as president of the semi-autonomous and historically wealthy region of Puntland, but he gave up his seat short of his term ending, and chased a bigger catch; president of Somalia.

Its all about power in the end.
Reply

north_malaysian
12-26-2006, 03:58 AM
would it be a regional war? Like Eritrea and Sudan supporting ICU.
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 04:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
well...... might be..

But why Ethiopia want to wage war to Islamic Court... dont they ever think that, they might offend the Ethiopian Muslims (who constitutes 45% -50% of the population)
Ethiopia has three large Ethnic groups:

50% are Oromo (entirely Muslim population, live in squalors in the desert regions)
35% are Amhara (historically Orthodox population)
12% are Tigre (allied to Amharas, hold power in the country, Orthodox)

The Muslim population is nearly inexistent; they have a short history of war and are extremely powerless; that's why you never hear about prominent Ethiopian Muslims.
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 04:03 AM
NM,

The Iranians are Shi'ites, but several of their soldiers were found there, although they could've just been Afghanis that were mistaken.

The Afghanis who were found are mercenaries left over from the 1980s conflicts; mostly guerilla technicians and squadron leaders.

There is also a major Sudanese general among the ranks who is eluding the eyes of Western intelligence in Somalia at the moment. He is also alongside another prominent Afghani general.
Reply

north_malaysian
12-26-2006, 04:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
Ethiopia has three large Ethnic groups:

50% are Oromo (entirely Muslim population, live in squalors in the desert regions)
35% are Amhara (historically Orthodox population)
12% are Tigre (allied to Amharas, hold power in the country, Orthodox)

The Muslim population is nearly inexistent; they have a short history of war and are extremely powerless; that's why you never hear about prominent Ethiopian Muslims.
In the last Ramadhan, a local Malaysian tv network went to Addis Ababa for a documentary on Muslims in Addis Ababa... it was shocking... the 1,000,000 Muslims living in poverty and mostly are homeless...:cry:
Reply

north_malaysian
12-26-2006, 04:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
NM,

The Iranians are Shi'ites, but several of their soldiers were found there, although they could've just been Afghanis that were mistaken.

.
Maybe the IRanians belong to Sunni ethnic groups like the Kurds, Turkmens or Baluchis...
Reply

Islamicboy
12-26-2006, 04:46 AM
Now muslims have to agree this is an attack on islam. The reason west and speically america is ignoring this because Shariah was coming. American even openly rejected the idea of somalia getting Shariah. Well then agian some muslims might make up a reason for that. Just like when george bush said this crusade muslims helped him out in what he actully meant.
Reply

SilentObserver
12-26-2006, 04:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
Now muslims have to agree this is an attack on islam. The reason west and speically america is ignoring this because Shariah was coming. American even openly rejected the idea of somalia getting Shariah. Well then agian some muslims might make up a reason for that. Just like when george bush said this crusade muslims helped him out in what he actully meant.
Oh boy, here we go again. Westernophobia.
Reply

Islamicboy
12-26-2006, 04:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Oh boy, here we go again. Westernophobia.
I don't hate the west nor do I even hate America. I just hate the American Government and the neo cons who follow the government blindly.
Reply

SilentObserver
12-26-2006, 04:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
I don't hate the west nor do I even hate America. I just hate the American Government and the neo cons who follow the government blindly.
My comment was not about hating the west. It was about the fear and/or paranoia that many muslims have of the west, that parallels 'islamophobia'. Everything that happens in the world is connected to the US and thier evil plan. Geesh.
Reply

Bittersteel
12-26-2006, 05:38 AM
haha I liked the Ethiopian PM's comments.**** the Somalias have fought well despite the fact they are inferior.they inflicted quite a lot of casualties.
the UIC have achieved a lot.They have actually worked with western forces to capture pirates,establish some law and order.you can google about that.
Reply

Israfil
12-26-2006, 06:03 AM
How the hell does Ethiopia have planes?
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 06:56 AM
Its over, its all over...

MOGADISHU, Somalia - Islamic fighters attempting to wrest power from Somalia's internationally recognized government retreated from the main front line early Tuesday, witnesses said, a day after Ethiopian fighter jets bombed the country's two main international airports.

Troops loyal to the Council of Islamic Courts withdrew more than 30 miles to the southeast from Daynuney, a town just south of Baidoa, the government headquarters.

The Islamic forces also abandoned their main stronghold in Bur Haqaba and were forming convoys headed toward the capital, Mogadishu, residents in villages along the road told The Associated Press by telephone.

"We woke up from our sleep this morning and the town was empty of troops, not a single Islamic fighter," Ibrahim Mohamed Aden, a resident of Bur Haqaba said.

On the northern front, government and Ethiopian troops entered the town of Bulo Barde, where just two weeks ago an Islamic cleric said anyone who did not pray five times a day would be executed.

"We have withdrawn as part of our military strategy," said Sheik Mohamoud Ibrahim Suley, an official with the Islamic council in Mogadishu.
The Ethiopian and Puntland military are headed to Kismayo and when that happens, the show will be capped off.

Either the Islamists are regrouping in Mogadishu to push back harder than before, or they're slowly putting away their munitions and giving their good bye speeches.

My heart fell to the floor when I got confirmation from a friend living overseas that it was all over on the central front in Jowhar.
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 07:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Israfil
How the hell does Ethiopia have planes?
You know, those 'save Africa' commercials don't really tell the whole story, I mean, even the Taliban had a few MiGs in their early days.

:rollseyes


would it be a regional war? Like Eritrea and Sudan supporting ICU.
Sudan really isn't playing a huge hand in this affair, its not playing ANY role. Why the heck do people make the 'Sudan' connection? Sudan is a North African regional nation and has no interest or similarity with Somalia. It puzzles me sometimes how these conclusions are made...

The major regional players will be Uganda, Kenya, Ethiopia, Djibouti, Eritrea, and Tanzania to a very small extent if the Islamists gain such power.
Reply

Trumble
12-26-2006, 11:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
Now muslims have to agree this is an attack on islam. The reason west and speically america is ignoring this because Shariah was coming. American even openly rejected the idea of somalia getting Shariah.
America will 'ignore' this because even Bush isn't stupid enough to get the US involved with Somalia again considering what happened last time. As for everybody else, the political situation is complex, not least because it was continuing aggression by the UIC in trying to expand their area of influence that gave the Ethopians the excuse they needed. Add to that the fact that the African Union has now backed the Ethiopians and the obvious policy for the likes of the US, China, Russia and the EU is to stay as far away as possible.

It is not an 'attack on islam'... although it no doubt suits the UIC to pretend it is. The Ethopians couldn't care less about who is muslim and who isn't, and who has Shariah and who doesn't - let alone go to war about about it. It's about political power, who has control, what they intend to do with it and what Ethiopia and Eritrea can get out of it.
Reply

Wahid
12-26-2006, 11:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Israfil
How the hell does Ethiopia have planes?
I say its a good opportunity to end their small stockpile of planes, i am sure the courts have some stingers or a soviet made ones with them
Reply

Trumble
12-26-2006, 12:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Wahid
I say its a good opportunity to end their small stockpile of planes, i am sure the courts have some stingers or a soviet made ones with them
It's actually one of the largest airforces in Africa, albeit of varying vintage.
Reply

Dawud_uk
12-26-2006, 06:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
Its over, its all over...



The Ethiopian and Puntland military are headed to Kismayo and when that happens, the show will be capped off.

Either the Islamists are regrouping in Mogadishu to push back harder than before, or they're slowly putting away their munitions and giving their good bye speeches.

My heart fell to the floor when I got confirmation from a friend living overseas that it was all over on the central front in Jowhar.
subhanallah there are people here who would give up after one victory for the enemies of Allah!?!?!?!

is the war all won for the kuffar and over with in afghanistan or are the mujahadeen pushing back and fighting hard and making it almost impossible for the kuffar and their apostate allies to control anything more than the towns and cities they have troops?

do the mujahadeen in iraq not have most british and US troops frightened to leave their bases and have they not also siezed towns and then lost them? did they say o' well lets all go home then, we lost falluja, it was all for nothing'

no of-course not. they recognise that victory comes from Allah, and that the reward of the one who travels in the path of Allah is two, either victory or martrydom.

sometimes people are tested but we should not give up after one major battle or if we did islam would never have got where it is today.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 06:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
subhanallah there are people here who would give up after one victory for the enemies of Allah!?!?!?!

is the war all won for the kuffar and over with in afghanistan or are the mujahadeen pushing back and fighting hard and making it almost impossible for the kuffar and their apostate allies to control anything more than the towns and cities they have troops?

do the mujahadeen in iraq not have most british and US troops frightened to leave their bases and have they not also siezed towns and then lost them? did they say o' well lets all go home then, we lost falluja, it was all for nothing'

no of-course not. they recognise that victory comes from Allah, and that the reward of the one who travels in the path of Allah is two, either victory or martrydom.

sometimes people are tested but we should not give up after one major battle or if we did islam would never have got where it is today.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Very true. I was shocked this morning to see the heartbreaking headlines. You are correct, it is not yet over. The Islamists have said they are digging in for a war of attrition, and hopefully they come out on it.

I, furthermore, believe the Islamists were betrayed by their Muslim allies; no real help came from Eritrea, Iran, Pakistan, or Egypt!
Reply

Dawud_uk
12-26-2006, 08:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
Very true. I was shocked this morning to see the heartbreaking headlines. You are correct, it is not yet over. The Islamists have said they are digging in for a war of attrition, and hopefully they come out on it.

I, furthermore, believe the Islamists were betrayed by their Muslim allies; no real help came from Eritrea, Iran, Pakistan, or Egypt!
some of them might have been muslim, but none of them are nations fighting for islam.

i think this will be a hard lesson for the islamic courts, just as other islamic movements had to learn simular hard lessons not to rely on secularistics or believe the old saying of my enemies enemy is my friend as such friendships are never trustworthy or last.
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 08:18 PM
Even worse news; the secular Somali government wants to make Khat LEGAL!! :laugh:


LINK

Hurreh, the Somali foreign minister, said Somalis will embrace the fall of the Islamic militias. Their severe interpretation of Islam is reminiscent, to some, of Afghanistan's Taliban regime — ousted by a U.S.-led campaign in 2001 for harboring Osama bin Laden.

"A lot of people in Mogadishu will be very happy to chew some qat and have the Islamic courts out of their way," Hurreh said, referring to the narcotic leaf banned by many of the Islamic courts.
SICK SICK SICK!!!
Reply

Dawud_uk
12-26-2006, 08:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
Even worse news; the secular Somali government wants to make Khat LEGAL!! :laugh:


LINK



SICK SICK SICK!!!
most of their fighters are addicted to this stuff, how could they maintain the ban?

even the western media is reporting that the so called govt forces are actually a mixture of ethiopian troops and the warlords militia who escaped to ethiopia a few months before, all of them qat addicts.

the islamic courts were too merciful, those who refused to surrender then should have been killed to the last man, insha'allah they dont make the same mistake again.

saying that, in the somalia 2006 report it showed former warlord militia being reformed in camps so if they surrender then yes let them be reformed but if not then kill them so they cant come back again.
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 08:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Why? The UIC prolonged the suffering of the people. If the transistional government had not been opposed by these troublemakers, the life of the Somaliis could have been made alot better by now.
Lets see what the Ethiopian troops and Transitional gov't did for Somali people and towns:

Link

After the Islamist withdrawal, residents and local militiamen looted Buur Hakaba, 30 km (20 miles) east of Baidoa, stealing boxes of food and medicine, witnesses said.

"The town is in total chaos," said resident Adan Hassan.
Thanks a lot, Western-backed hand of justice, you've done it again!

Thanks a lot for Iraq #2! +o(
Reply

Dawud_uk
12-26-2006, 08:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Why? The UIC prolonged the suffering of the people. If the transistional government had not been opposed by these troublemakers, the life of the Somaliis could have been made alot better by now.
silentobserver,

the transitional govt are the warlords that ruined somalia, except now in fancy western suits. Abdullahi Yusuf is a warlord, his men are his militia.

just check out his biog on wiki if you dont believe me. but he is a crook, a criminal, a man responsible for running a hoard of men hooked on qat who use violence, murder and rape to keep order and loot everything that isnt nailed down and even then they will loot it still and the nails as well.

check the headlines in the western media, the towns 'liberated' from the Islamic courts are already being looted.

Abu Abdullah
Reply

SilentObserver
12-26-2006, 08:39 PM
It is expected that things are going to be chaotic for a while. The country has been in turmoil for decades. Given a chance things would be made better. But that is the problem, "given a chance". This won't be allowed to happen because the troublemakers will see to it that it fails, and then say "see, thier way doesn't work!".
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
It is expected that things are going to be chaotic for a while. The country has been in turmoil for decades. Given a chance things would be made better. But that is the problem, "given a chance". This won't be allowed to happen because the troublemakers will see to it that it fails, and then say "see, thier way doesn't work!".
Such chaos wasn't witnessed when the Islamic Courts seized power in the towns they held.

This was the basis of the Islamic Courts; have courts in place, then seize town.

This is the basis of the lawless gov't; seize town, then exit.

No strategy for the people, its just about power to the gov't.
Reply

SilentObserver
12-26-2006, 08:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
Such chaos wasn't witnessed when the Islamic Courts seized power in the towns they held.
.
Of course not. Do as we do, do as we say, pray as we pray, or we will kill you. That is not freedom, it is oppression. And certainly is not happiness for the people.
I repeat this statement because it is important and true:
Given a chance things would be made better. But that is the problem, "given a chance". This won't be allowed to happen because the troublemakers will see to it that it fails, and then say "see, thier way doesn't work!".
Reply

Dahir
12-26-2006, 09:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Of course not. Do as we do, do as we say, pray as we pray, or we will kill you. That is not freedom, it is oppression. And certainly is not happiness for the people.
I repeat this statement because it is important and true:
So, legalizing drugs is good for the populace?

You see, you know NOTHING about Somalia.

Somalia needs CONTROL, not freedom.

The Somali people have had far too much freedom, and people have taken advantage of those freedoms.

Somalia is in dire need of control; once control is established, then we can talk; but if you can't establish control, what is there?

Are you totally misguided, what do you think this war is about?? Its about controlling the warring populations, drugs, heresy, and conflict!!

Somalia, above ANYTHING else, is in need of CONTROL -- I can't emphasize that enough!!

When gunmen are running the streets and people are being killed en masse, does music matter; do sensuous clothes matter, does alcohol matter?? NO!!
Reply

Dawud_uk
12-26-2006, 09:13 PM
deleted post
i dont have any issue with executing of male prisoners of war, in islam it is upto the general or amir of the state if he is available to make the decision on whether to release them to show mercy, to kill them or to enslave them.

what i have an issue with is the terrible way that the west treats women and children in war. this i have an issue with, not the killing of men in battle or after it.
Reply

SilentObserver
12-26-2006, 09:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

sad to say i am close to agreeing with you, certain non-muslims on this board have made my ignore list as obvious trouble makers and this guy is close to being the latest member of it.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
I'm sorry you feel that way. But why would that be? Is it that any person that has a different opinion than you is a troublemaker? Isn't the end result of what we both want the same? That is the end of suffering for the people in Somalia?
I would not put you on my ignore list for disagreeing. I think it is rather intolerant of you to want to label a person a troublemaker for simply thinking differently. This forum would be boring with nothing to talk about if we all were drones thinking the same way.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
12-26-2006, 09:21 PM
I think that the power and popularity of the UIC amongst the Somali people has been greatly exaggerated by the media. First of all, they don't control as much territory as the media claims and their military strength is hugely overrated.

As for their popularity, compliance because of brute force does not mean they are liked. If the UIC really claims to have popular support, let them contest in a free and fair UN monitored elections rather than force people to accept them at gun point.
Reply

SilentObserver
12-26-2006, 09:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
[ If the UIC really claims to have popular support, let them contest in a free and fair UN monitored elections rather than force people to accept them at gun point.[/B]
Exactly.
Reply

aqonsi
12-26-2006, 09:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I think that the power and popularity of the UIC amongst the Somali people has been greatly exaggerated by the media. First of all, they don't control as much territory as the media claims and their military strength is hugely overrated.

As for their popularity, compliance because of brute force does not mean they are liked. If the UIC really claims to have popular support, let them contest in a free and fair UN monitored elections rather than force people to accept them at gun point.
------

the nature of somalis situation is one about power. people have had freedom for way to long and law and order has long eroded, now these people want law and order andjustice for the people, and everyone is against them, and want a dictatorship to return to somalia.

------

may allah bring us peace and justice.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
12-26-2006, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aqonsi
------


the nature of somalis situation is one about power. people have had freedom for way to long and law and order has long eroded, now these people want law and order andjustice for the people, and everyone is against them, and want a dictatorship to return to somalia.

------


may allah bring us peace and justice.
LOL - Calm down brother. Yes i'm aware of the decades of civul war in the region. Has the UIC really brought stability to Somalia?
Reply

aqonsi
12-26-2006, 09:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
LOL - Calm down brother. Yes i'm aware of the decades of civul war in the region. Has the UIC really brought stability to Somalia?
ok :statisfie

yes as much as they could have done, no one is perfect. but everyone wanted them to get back some form of order, something we have been lacking for a long time.
Reply

- Qatada -
12-26-2006, 09:33 PM
Thread Closed.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 12-21-2011, 05:39 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-02-2010, 05:13 PM
  3. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-25-2009, 01:24 AM
  4. Replies: 145
    Last Post: 09-29-2008, 04:24 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-2007, 06:05 AM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!