Save al Aqsa

[sudais1]

ya Ikhwan

Al aqsa is crying for help, it needs to be freed, The zionist regime kill thousands of muslims daily and the world let alone other muslim coutries stay quiet.:cry: :cry: :cry:

Morraco a muslim country have taken verses from the quran that make woman wear hijab. Al aqsa is under seige and needs help :laugh: :laugh: . We stay quiet, why? We must fight the Zionist regime. Jihad is the only awnser to free our great mosque. We cannot stay quiet. The zionist have taken the land of muslims, killed them, plan to destroy al aqsa and build a temple :raging: :raging: :raging: :raging:

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.as...en&DSNO=936656

save al aqsa

[KAding]

ya Ikhwan

Al aqsa is crying for help, it needs to be freed, The zionist regime kill thousands of muslims daily and the world let alone other muslim coutries stay quiet.:cry: :cry: :cry:

Thousands a day killed by the zionists? Where?

Morraco a muslim country have taken verses from the quran that make woman wear hijab. Al aqsa is under seige and needs help :laugh: :laugh: . We stay quiet, why?

You stay quiet? No offense, but Israel is about the biggest obsession the Muslim world has! Muslims frequently act as if it is the biggest conflict in the history of mankind, while in reality compared to conflicts like currently Iraq, Sudan, Chechnya it is pretty insignificant. Although the conflict is hyped often, in reality the amount of actual combat is very limited, as are the number of casualties on both sides.

We must fight the Zionist regime. Jihad is the only awnser to free our great mosque. We cannot stay quiet. The zionist have taken the land of muslims, killed them, plan to destroy al aqsa and build a temple :raging: :raging: :raging: :raging:

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.as...en&DSNO=936656

save al aqsa[/QUOTE]

I'd personally suggest another approach, since the one of conflict has been quite unsatisfactory for Muslims so far. Perhaps a pacifist approach like that of Ghandi would have more success?

[sudais1]

I guess u are blind, I do agree that there other greater conflicts, but when Isreal take our land, kill our people , set al aqsa on fire like 20 years ago, an isreali man also came in and shot randomly, When the world supports Isreal calling palestinans terrorits because they use motor bombs, thats all they have and thats what they fight with, Imagine f16 jets attacking u, and later Isreal saying were "Investigating" the situation when they are hiding the fact they sent it. The UN are doing nothing to stop this problem. Al Aqsa is the thrid holiest mosque in Islam. It is being attack and we Muslims cant stay quiet. Al Aqsa is Great in Islam. Isreal is the biggest oppseision is the Muslim world because they took land thats not theirs let alone the Holy land. The problem wouldnt be as big as it is if Isreal didn't occupy Jerusalem. But they took it from us, and They attack our Great Mosque. So obviously We must Fight, yet nobody let alone the arab league and the muslim world do nothing other than talking and threatning, We need action

[sudais1]

okay not thousand s but alot

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[ManchesterFolk]

but when Isreal take our land,

When did Israel become Muslim land? Do you realize the Jewish and Christian religions considered this place holy and were living there centuries before the Quran and your prophet...

Do you think Arabs genetically connected to tribes from Saudi Arabia just poped out of the ground one day?

okay not thousand s but alot

For every 3 Muslims in this confict dead, a Jew is to... remember that. "Massacres" are usally much more one sided.

Al Aqsa is the thrid holiest mosque in Islam.

And the Jews giove you full control over it! Even though Muslims refused to allow control of Jewish holy sites like the wall when Jersualem was under Islamic control!

We must Fight

Right? Fighting is always the answer... NOT!

I can't bame Israel for mnot making peace with you guys, all you want to do is fight.

[sudais1]

we dont want to fight, just simply give us our land back. we were so nice to the Jews like when The muslims conqured spain the jews lived therin because we treated them well. when the christians took over the follwed the muslims to i belive turkey because the christians were torturing them. When were thrown in a corner a critized by the western media daily, Didnt every come to ur mind that if u got off our lands well stop "wanting to fight". I would never make peace with Isreal because i do not recongnize them just like the True Jews dont and. Jerusalem was part of Palestine Untill the Arab-Isreali Conflict when most of Palestian lands were given to the newly formed Isreal without Palestinan approval. Meaning Palestianas let alone Muslims want their land. Jerusalem is obviously holiest of cities but we conquered it last and it was added to another part of a country unfairly. People like u dont really see whats being done to Muslims all u see is Islam from Fox or BBC. Its was our land last and it will remain our land. Know theis fighting can stop when u simply give our land back. seem easy enough

you say we love to fight, we dont we fight when we have too, like now, We want whats ares

[Trumble]

we dont want to fight, just simply give us our land back.

The problem is that there are several million people living there who believe it to be 'their' land, and who have already on several occasions demonstrated just as much willingness to fight for it as any previous occupier. Nobody is going to 'give it back'; there is no way of identifying previous 'owners' anyway. Why 'us'? Are you Palestinian? Israel is no more 'muslim' land than Jewish or Christian land.. a religion doesn't occupy land, people do. For most of the history of the Arab/Israeli conflict (note that's 'Arab', not 'muslim') it wasn't even the major issue - the PLO was essentially a secular, socialist organisation, as were most of the Arab governments that got involved in the war that lost East Jerusalem to the Israelis in the first place.

we were so nice to the Jews like when The muslims conqured spain the jews lived therin because we treated them well.

Jerusalem is obviously holiest of cities but we conquered it last and it was added to another part of a country unfairly.

There seems to have been an awful lot of 'conquering' going on. With that in mind, where does 'unfairness' come in when somebody else does it? The Israelis 'conquered' Jerusalem last, surely..? Or doesn't that count?

Meaning Palestianas let alone Muslims want their land.

As far as most muslims are concerned, the conflict has little to do with them... no more than the general humanitarian concerns the rest of us share. Historically, those in the region treated the Palestinians (particularly refugees) worse than the Israelis did.

Failing to 'recognise' Israel is utterly pointless. The State of Israel is there, it is a fact, and its people aren't going anywhere. Neither are they turning their land over to anybody. The real way to peace, and to make life better for the Palestinians is to do everything we can to establish a genuine, independent, successful Palestine in Gaza and the West Bank. That's what most Palestinians want, too.. not another attempt to destroy Israel which will cause them even more misery than previous efforts. They understand that wishful thinking gets them nowhere.. most don't even remember the land that is supposed to be 'theirs'. The Arabs had two real chances to destroy Israel, in 1948 and 1967. They failed. Now, to obtain peace, it is necessary to deal with the world as-is, not with a fantasy.

By the way, this stuff about the Israelis planning to destroy the al Aqsa mosque and rebuild the Temple crops up every few years or so; there was no truth in it before and is none now. A (very) few Zionist extremists/nutters once floated the idea but it has never had any mainstream support in Israel at all (not least because they are perfectly well aware of the consequences). It's just a scare story.

[sudais1]

I am palestinain number one. Why is this so hard to understand. Jerusalem is not Holy by Isreal if it is they wouldnt Hold Gay parades. Jerusalem in underseige by degrading it. It simply needs to be freed of the Zionist, returned to it's Owners

http://www.sedmoykanal.com/data/imag...ne-map-420.jpg

as you can see The Newley Formed State of Isreal took our lands. Wouldnt u fight for ur land? The true Jews won't even go to Isreal as they were Exiled off the Land by God. As we Saw in New York The mass demostraion of Jews against Isreal. Why Should we stay quiet when Isreali's are taking land they were cursed off? Does this make sense. Its like giving a class one exam and no appeals ,




Prime Minister Olmert's Grandfather is not Isreali he's palestianin. Does that give u a clue who's land it was

[lavikor201]

Jerusalem is not Holy by Isreal if it is they wouldnt Hold Gay parades.

Oh so if Jerusalem was under Arab control then gays would not only be denied there basic human rights, but would be denied any type of freedom of speech. That is good to know then, that Jerusalem will not be under Arab control.

And by the way tons of Orthodox Jews protested it with riots so they had to move it to a stadium, but they were never denied freedom of speech.

It simply needs to be freed of the Zionist, returned to it's Owners

I hope you are not suggesting Muslims! You do realize there was church and Temple before Mosques there.

Muslims are relative newcomers to the Holy Land.

Prime Minister Olmert's Grandfather is not Isreali he's palestianin. Does that give u a clue who's land it was

"Palestinian" was what everyone was named when it was a mandate. To give you a history lesson there has never been a country called "Palestine" and there has never been a history or movement for the people. The movement called the "PLO" never even wanted a state until an Arab instigated war lost Arab land and the Arab world needed a reason to keep Arab interest in getting the land they lost because the Jews outnumbered destroyed them in battle.

The true Jews won't even go to Isreal as they were Exiled off the Land by God.

Since your the self proclaimed expert on this, where in the Talmud does it discuss the exile?

Can you tell me what the exile conditions were?

Are you knowledgable about the oaths?

If not, then I suggest you do not talk because there are a lot of smart Jewish people here that will call your BS.

Peace.

[Fishman]

:sl:
I tend to regard the idea that al-Aqsa is being undermined and destroyed intentionally as a conspiracy theory, because there are very similar things going around that the Palestinians are trying to undermine and collapse the Western Wall. If there are two things that are very similar like this, then the chances are that at least one story is fake.

But I do agree that there are groups trying to destroy al-Aqsa. One of them wants the Masjid torn down and moved to Makkah (Mecca), which is pointless since it commemorates the place where the Prophet (pbuh) ascended into paradise. I think we should not be like children and argue about who got their first, because this goes back thousands of years. Instead we should remember that the Temple Mount is very sacred to Jews, Christians and Muslims, and therefore all of these groups should be entitled to ownership of their respective parts of the Rock. Jews should get the Wall and the Mount itself, along with other Hebrew-era relics near the formation, Muslims should control al-Aqsa, the Dome of the Rock and all the Masjids nearby, and Christians should have the Churches in the area. I also think the whole Jerusalem area should be controlled by a kind of tri-faith council, so that there is as little conflict as possible.

As for the rest of Israel, I think that is certainly necessary for Jews to have a state somewhere, otherwise they would have nowhere that is safe from persecution. But at the same time, the Arabs who now live in Palestine should have their own country. So, prehaps a Palestinian state should be formed from the Gaza Strip and the west bank. The state should also incorperate the Negev region, to provide the Arabs with more land, and so that no enclaves and exclaves are formed.
One problem with simply having a Palestinian state composed of the current areas of Gaza and the West Bank is because these areas are not physically connected to each other, which would mean that Israel would be able to control movement in between these areas, which would mean more babies dying at checkpoints. But if these areas were connected together by a thin strip of land, two problems would occur:
1. Israel would be separated into two areas, and Israeli babies would now be dying at Palestinian checkpoints
2. Israel could bomb the strip in order to prevent access along it, which would mean more hardship for Palestinian civilians

So, instead, the whole Negev should be incorperated into Palestine, which would mean a good future for both Israel and palestine.
:w:

[lavikor201]

I also think the whole Jerusalem area should be controlled by a kind of tri-faith council, so that there is as little conflict as possible.

That was what is was suppose to be in 1948, but Arab armies conquered it and destroyed the Jewish Quarter and prevented freedom of worship.

[Fishman]

That was what is was suppose to be in 1948, but Arab armies conquered it and destroyed the Jewish Quarter and prevented freedom of worship.

:sl:
How is that going to help? Wouldn't it be much more productive if we thought about solutions to the conflict, rather than goint through all this ''your fault! Your fault!'' business? Loads of people are to blame for the Israeli Palestinian issue. The zionists, the Palestinian militias, the other Arab countries, the USA, colonial Britain, the USSR, Hezbollah, the list goes on!

And if I wanted to counter your argument, I could say that in 1915 the British declared that they would establish an Arab-ruled state in their Palestinian Mandate, but then went back on their words with the Balfour Declaration. But as I said before, it's childish to play the blame game.
:sl:

[Skillganon]

Listen: On Israel and Palestine. Media Matters. December 3, 2006.

Note: Need RealPlayer to listen or any application that play's ".rm" files.

[Fishman]

:sl:
Here's a map of my two-state solution:

I decided to let Saudi Arabia have the Negev, since it is a large area, and Israelis may think that they are loosing out in land if it is all Palestinian. The green bit is the tri-faith council's area.
:w:

[lavikor201]

How is that going to help? Wouldn't it be much more productive if we thought about solutions to the conflict, rather than goint through all this ''your fault! Your fault!'' business?

I am just saying that history repeats itself, and right now, currently freedom of worship is granted to all under Israeli sovereignty.

decided to let Saudi Arabia have the Negev

Saudi Arabia does not need more desert. :p

Plus, why should Israel give any land when they know many Muslims will continue to not want peace and fight Israel as long as they exist. Why give up land, that will put you at risk defensivly when you know peace will not occur.

As long as Israel exists there are members of this forum that will never accept her! Let alone the who Islamic world!!!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Plus, why should Israel give any land when they know many Muslims will continue to not want peace and fight Israel as long as they exist. Why give up land, that will put you at risk defensivly when you know peace will not occur.

Oh please! it goes both ways.

[Fishman]

Plus, why should Israel give any land when they know many Muslims will continue to not want peace and fight Israel as long as they exist. Why give up land, that will put you at risk defensivly when you know peace will not occur.

:sl:
How do you know peace will not occur? How can you be sure that the Arabs won't be satified?

Anyway, this plan is temporary. Israel will become a Muslim country again, but through the choice of the people. When Isa (pbuh) returns, with the Mahdi at his side, all bu the most evil people will be convinced of the truth of Islam, even the Israelis...

The best tactic in this fight is peace.
:w:

[Woodrow]

Frustrating situation. I see no end outside of continued bloodshed.

I pray that I will live long enough to see Peace in the region.


May Al-Aqsa be freed of any thought of destrution by human hands.

[starfortress]

:sl:

plan to destroy al aqsa and build a temple

Any guarantee from Jewish or Zionist that this nightmare will not going to happen?Yes or Not.If no bodies would be able to say yes,that's means it's better for the Israelis,Jewish,Zionist,Westerner or whatever sided to them to think more wisely and justly insteads creates a stories and pretends like you are the only one being victimize.

Gay Right,Free Speech.+o(

I wonder what kinds of rights and frees they will claims in the future:rollseyes

[lavikor201]

How do you know peace will not occur? How can you be sure that the Arabs won't be satified?

Because I can name at least a dozen on this message board that would not think of peace if that occured! And there are millions with them that will continue to fund violence.

wonder what kinds of rights and frees they will claims in the future

I'm not fan of homosexuality, but I wish you would spend more time condemning people who blow buses up, then attacking gays who did nothing to you.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Because I can name at least a dozen on this message board that would not think of peace if that occured! And there are millions with them that will continue to fund violence.

Thats ur misrepresentation. That would be the first thing we want, especially to help our Muslim brothers and sisters. If we could help, we wouldnt be sitting here!

[starfortress]

:sl:

but I wish you would spend more time condemning people who blow buses up

Yes i am indeeds condems both suicide bombers and IDF personnels.
Suicide bombers and IDF missiles,where were the differents,besides both killing the civilians and innocents.

[AvarAllahNoor]

When did Israel become Muslim land? Do you realize the Jewish and Christian religions considered this place holy and were living there centuries before the Quran and your prophet...

Do you think Arabs genetically connected to tribes from Saudi Arabia just poped out of the ground one day?



For every 3 Muslims in this confict dead, a Jew is to... remember that. "Massacres" are usally much more one sided.



And the Jews giove you full control over it! Even though Muslims refused to allow control of Jewish holy sites like the wall when Jersualem was under Islamic control!


Right? Fighting is always the answer... NOT!

I can't bame Israel for mnot making peace with you guys, all you want to do is fight.

Land land land is all i hear!! - Jews have a right to it. Let them live in peace!

[Woodrow]

How did this go from a thread about Al-Aqsa to a discussion of gay rights?

[rav]

How did this go from a thread about Al-Aqsa to a discussion of gay rights?

one of the points somone tried to make was that al-asqa must be in their mind 'liberated' because of a gay march that took place near there, which actually ended up in a football stadium not in the old city.

[Woodrow]

Now let us all return to the Topic

[Ninth_Scribe]

And the Jews giove you full control over it! Even though Muslims refused to allow control of Jewish holy sites like the wall when Jersualem was under Islamic control!

I've heard that complaint before on this forum. It was devoid of specifics, but it caught my attention none the less. Basically, any complaint that is made from either side is of interest to me. It's become something of a quest as of late. I guess this is just my taking the scenic route. So, I'll dare the question.

Can you name at least three incidents in which the Judeans were prevented from worship in lands that were under Islamic control?

I'm not worried about Al Aqsa. It falls under religious law and it is well protected by both (Laws of Israel and Islam). The taking of what was the entire state of Israel... that was weird, but I doubt there is a single Jewish rabbi who would sanction a move for the Temple mount. One reason King David could not raise the Temple. Too much bloodshed on the hands...

Avodah Zarah: "You would kill for a... person... a place.. or a thing"?

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

How did this go from a thread about Al-Aqsa to a discussion of gay rights?

Beats the hell out of me :omg:

Ninth Scribe

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I hate when someone lies about something, thinking they can get away with it, like we cant reserach history! just so they can feed their lies.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Frustrating situation. I see no end outside of continued bloodshed.

No, there is another way. We have to gather up the religious scholars of these three and make them deal with each other. As an incentive, we'll lock them up together and we won't let them out to see the light of day or their families again until they work out the collection of grievences they've made against each other. Stop this crap from spilling out onto the streets, infecting everyone. They made the accusations against each other... they should dealing with it.

OMG! Sorry for the venting, but really! They are the reason the people can't unite.

Ninth Scribe

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It is the word affairs section :) lol
It gets to everyone....

[rav]

It is the word affairs section :) lol
It gets to everyone....

the blood boils here... lol.

we all have to calm down and realize that nothing will change no matter how much you all argue.

[north_malaysian]

How could we Muslims help the Palestinians if they're killing each others...

[AmarFaisal]

Lets read a little about this sacred land that combines n brings together the 3 largest religions of the world:

(Quoted from "Stories of the Prophets (Peace Be Upon Them) by Ibn Khatir)
The people of the book have mentioned that when Isaac married Rifqa (Rebekah), daughter of Behuel, he was forty years old. She was barren, so Isaac prayed for her . She got pregnant and gave birth to twin boys (Bible, Genensis 24). The name of the first child was Esau, whom Arabs called as Al-'Ais from whom Romans descended. The second son was Jacob whom the Children of Israel are related to.

It is said that Isaac loved Esau more than Jacob, bacause he was his firstborn son.However, Rebekah loved Jacob more than his brother . beacause he was the younger.

They have also mentioned that when Isaac grew old and his eyesight was too weak to see, he expressed his desire for tasty food to his son Esau, and asked him to go out and hunt him some wild animal and then cook it for him. And so Isaac could give him his blessing and pray for him. Esau was a hunter , so he went off to catch animal.

However, Rebekah overheard Isaac, and yold Jacob abt what his father said to Esau, and asked him to go out to his flock and bring her two well chosen young goats, so that she could prepare some tatsy food for his father, as he desired it, before his brother could come back. So Jacob went out, got a healthy goat, and slaughtered it and then brought it to his mother, and she prepared the food the way his father desired it. Rebekah than took the best clothes of Esau , and put them on her younger son Jacob. Esau had hairy skin and Jacob had smooth skin, so she covered his hands and the smooth parts of his neck with the goat skin.

When Jacob brought the food to his father, he asked him :" who are you?" he answered:" your son" so he asked him to come closer to him, and he touched him and said "The voice is that of Jacob but the hands are the hands of Esau". When he ate the food, he supplicated for him that he be the more honorable among his brothers, may his authority extend upon all nations, and that he may get abundance of provisions"(This story is mentioned in Bible Genensis 27)

As Jacob left his father after his blessings, Esau came in hunting. He prepared some tatsy food and brought it to his father, his father asked him "what is this, my son?" Esau replied " This is the food you desired for" Isaac replied "Didn't you come to me a little while ago (with food) and I ate from it and blessed you?" Esau said " by Allah, it wasn't me", And he kenw that his brother has deceitfully took his blessings. Esau held now a grudge against his brother , and threatened to kill him if their father died. Esau asked his father for another supplication, so he supplicated for him (with another request), that his progeny will be the rugged of the earth, and that they will have abundance of provisions and fruits.

When Rebekah , their mother , heard of this threat of Esau for Jacob, she asked Jacob to leave at once and go to her brother Laban in Haran, and sty there until his brother's fury subsides. She also asked him to marry one of his daughters, and asked hre huband Isaac to tell him to do this. Isaac called for JAcob and blessed him and commanded him to do so. So he did.

Jacob left at the end of the day and when he reached a certain place he stopped for the night . He took one of the stones there and put it under his head and la to sleep. He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth with its top reaching to heaven. Angels were ascendding and decending on it. There above it stood the Lord and said to him:"I am the Lord, I will give you and your descendants the land on which your are lying" He also blessed him , and promised that his children will spread out all over the world.

When Jacob awoke his sleep , he felt happy with his dream. He then made a vow saying that if he returend safely to his father's house, he would build a house for the worship of Allah at that place, and that whatever Allah would give him, he would give away of it one-tenth for Him. Then he took the stone and poured oil on top of it, so that he could recognise it. He called that place Bethel, meaning the House of Allah. This is the same place where bait-ul-Maqdis is situated now, which was built by him later on.

[Ninth_Scribe]

the blood boils here... lol.

we all have to calm down and realize that nothing will change no matter how much you all argue.

My apologies, but my last statement stands. These are not supposed to be our arguments and I'm sick of finding myself in the cross-fire. You should hear some of these arguments. Quite a number of them aren't even worth the paper they're written on. Others, that are honest ones, are becoming twisted beyond recognition - one day, they probably won't even be able to recall what they were even fighting for.

Blood boils? More like a dose of Spiritual PMS :Evil:

Ninth Scribe

[New_Muslim]

Palestine is Muslim land before it is anyone else's. Muslim have a right to fight for it and to defend al-Aqsa.

[Ninth_Scribe]

You have to be the single-most irritating poster on here, and that includes the kids who type in mobile phone txt talk. Surely I cannot be the only one who thinks that...

You're not ~ I even irritate the Jews and Christians... but this isn't a beauty pageant or a popularity contest. You're the logistical type, so I'm sure you'll find a way to deal with the strain :)

Ninth Scribe

[cihad]

first of all its not anybodys land , its Allahs land.

second of all please don't say PEACE at the end of your message if you don't mean it (coz i know you don't)

and thirdly a two state solution will never work. the only solution is a 1 state solution where the palestineans rule and the pals and israelies live with each other. of course there will be hatred at first but I believe this is the solution

My country South Africa is the perfect example of how the holy lands can be tranformed into a peaceful abode once more.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Oh cool, just what I always wanted, another thread dedicated to Israel and palestinian conflict.

To those members who wish to "take arms against the kufar in order to prevent massacres", here's a new method. Why not help preserve life via donating through charities, sponsoring orphans, looking after the elderly, donating money to palestine etc. This method involves no killing, no haram and it is perfectly legal.

This is the real world, not an action movie, you can't just go around killing people and hoping it will solve all your problems. Besides, do you honestly think one extra soldier placed on the battlefield on either side of this conflict will change the outcome? This is not how wars or any conflicts of any kind are stopped. Think it through logically : you kill them, they kill you and sooner or later everyone dies.

[SATalha]

The land of palestine was handed By Prophet Abreham to his two sons and the Muslims are decendants of one of the sons. So we have the right for this land! The Zionist have clears aims and objectives about the Masjid and they want it destroyed bad! But they will fail (although they have these underground tunnels built). They are killing the Palestinians not only with bullets, but by depriving them of basic needs like water. Isreal controls all water that goes in to for example Hebron where there is a massive Muslim and Christian population. But they only recieve 15% of the water, but the Jewish community recieve 85% of the water. This is total CRAZYNESS! there are more Muslims in Hebron the Jews so are they deprived of basic sanitation. Not to mention all the prisoners that they are holding with out charge. The Palestinians are modern day Davids, throwing stones at the Isreali Galiath. Yes there are other Major conflicts out there, but ask yourself one question who do they involve, yes its the U.S. I'll tell you why its because the US needs a war every decade to sustain their economy they cant live without it. People who dont want war like JFK get shot and killed.

[dishdash]

The Zionist have clears aims and objectives about the Masjid and they want it destroyed bad!

No they don't. Please show us your daleel for this claim.

But they will fail (although they have these underground tunnels built).

Alhamdulilah...

[SATalha]

No they don't. Please show us your daleel for this claim.



Alhamdulilah...

You dont need daleel to know that the destruction of Masjid al Aqsa is what the aim is, so that they can build the temple of Soleman (PBUH).

[SATalha]

[QUOTE=aamirsaab;609529]:sl:
To those members who wish to "take arms against the kufar in order to prevent massacres", here's a new method. Why not help preserve life via donating through charities, sponsoring orphans, looking after the elderly, donating money to palestine etc. This method involves no killing, no haram and it is perfectly legal.

Yes This is what we should be doing helping the Palestinians, Ever heard of Interpal?

[IzakHalevas]

You dont need daleel to know that the destruction of Masjid al Aqsa is what the aim is, so that they can build the temple of Soleman (PBUH).

Actually it is against Jewish law to rebuild the Holy Temple until the Moshiach comes. By the time the Moshiach comes, no Muslim will have a problem with the rebuilding of the Temple because all Muslims will realize it is the will of G-d. Therefore, don't worry, by the time we rebuild the Temple, you will be helping us take down the existing structure, unless your stubborn enough to reject G-d because of your own personal pride. So basically, until Moshiach comes, you won't have to worry about rebuilding our Temple. And when Moshiach comes, well you won't really care according to our belief.

donating money to palestine

If you are not careful how you donate to Palestine it can very well be used to by a gun instead of a hot meal for a starving family. You see, many corrupt Palestinians militants see it better to buy a gun to kill then provide for there ownign starving people.

[FBI]

:sl:
Oh cool, just what I always wanted, another thread dedicated to Israel and palestinian conflict.

To those members who wish to "take arms against the kufar in order to prevent massacres", here's a new method. Why not help preserve life via donating through charities, sponsoring orphans, looking after the elderly, donating money to palestine etc. This method involves no killing, no haram and it is perfectly legal.

This is the real world, not an action movie, you can't just go around killing people and hoping it will solve all your problems. Besides, do you honestly think one extra soldier placed on the battlefield on either side of this conflict will change the outcome? This is not how wars or any conflicts of any kind are stopped. Think it through logically : you kill them, they kill you and sooner or later everyone dies.

Offense is the best defense.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

Offense is the best defense.

Not if your opponent is playing by the same rule. That's how you drag a war out until everyone, including civilians, dies.

[FBI]

:sl:


Not if your opponent is playing by the same rule. That's how you drag a war out until everyone, including civilians, dies.

War isi nevitable fact of life that's why islam has sanctioned war when it's needed, allah is just we as muslims have rights and I'd personnally rather see every muslim martryed then live under oppression.

[IzakHalevas]

I'd personnally rather see every muslim martryed then live under oppression.

Well I am going to make the assumption that a majority of Muslims would call you crazy. Please answer, what is the point of life if you cannot live it?

[- Qatada -]

Well I am going to make the assumption that a majority of Muslims would call you crazy. Please answer, what is the point of life if you cannot live it?

Sacrificing for the sake of Allaah holds a huge reward. Dying for the sake of Allaah is of the best deaths anyone can recieve. Allaah will raise us back up and we will be asked about our deeds and actions. On that day we can tell Allaah [although He already knows] that we did it for His sake, and therefore He shall reward those who work hard to please Him.



Peace.

[abdmez]

Sacrificing for the sake of Allaah holds a huge reward. Dying for the sake of Allaah is of the best deaths anyone can recieve. Allaah will raise us back up and we will be asked about our deeds and actions. On that day we can tell Allaah [although He already knows] that we did it for His sake, and therefore He shall reward those who work hard to please Him.



Peace.

Do you believe Allah wants his own creations to die for his 'own sake'? I believe the sacrifices one should make for Allah have been one of the most manipulative tools of extremists that shame our religion.

[- Qatada -]

Do you believe Allah wants his own creations to die for his 'own sake'? I believe the sacrifices one should make for Allah have been one of the most manipulative tools of extremists that shame our religion.

:salamext:


All our lives are dedicated in order to serve Allaah. And the greatest sacrifice a person can make is to die for Allaah's sake.


Here's quite alot of sahih [authentic] evidence.


Virtues of the Martyrs
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=9857

[abdmez]

All our lives are dedicated in order to serve Allaah. And the greatest sacrifice a person can make is to die for Allaah's sake.

Do you really think death is the ultimate sacrifice? One can sacrifice a lot more and help a lot more being alive then dead.

[sudais1]

^^^^ ya i do^^^ Whats better than dying in the cause of Allah and then meeting allah as a martyar a word which today means terrorsit:unhappy:

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

War isi nevitable fact of life that's why islam has sanctioned war when it's needed, allah is just we as muslims have rights and I'd personnally rather see every muslim martryed then live under oppression.

You like many others seem to be forgetting the completion of the five pillars of Islam: tawheed, salat, zakat, sawm, hajj. Certain muslims, of similar mindsets, seem to want to take the easy way out: let's go die as a martyr (which, by the way still leaves palestine in its state of destruction - the very opposite of what you went there for!). You do know that you have to earn your way into Jannah - you don't just hand your birth-certificate to God and say, "Sup, G. Yeah I died as a marty, where's my houris at?"

You know, if more muslims had my mindset, we would have peace on this Earth.

Yes I know that's the most egotistical statement in the Universe that you have ever read, but it's also the undeniable truth.

[- Qatada -]

Do you really think death is the ultimate sacrifice? One can sacrifice a lot more and help a lot more being alive then dead.

:salamext:


Yes it is, because its showing that the person is prepared; not just to sacrifice his/her wealth, not just his/her family, not just what he/she loves, but instead their whole lives.


If you really don't agree, then just look at the Qur'an and the way of the prophets, and righteous.

[ManchesterFolk]

:salamext:


Yes it is, because its showing that the person is prepared; not just to sacrifice his/her wealth, not just his/her family, not just what he/she loves, but instead their whole lives.


If you really don't agree, then just look at the Qur'an and the way of the prophets, and righteous.

I would sacrifice my life for my wife and children. I hold them more dearer to me then my life. I believe the greatest sacrifice I could make is giving up my family to death and being alive to watch it, so does Islam say I would have to do that then? That makes no sense. To me death is not the biggest sacrifice, and possiby that is what the other member was hinting.

[- Qatada -]

I would sacrifice my life for my wife and children. I hold them more dearer to me then my life. I believe the greatest sacrifice I could make is giving up my family to death and being alive to watch it, so does Islam say I would have to do that then? That makes no sense. To me death is not the biggest sacrifice, and possiby that is what the other member was hinting.

The greater the trial, the greater the reward. If you were in submission to Allaah, and you were tortured, harmed, or even killed for His sake - then your reward is with Him.

If you just died for the sake of honor in this world by the people, or if you are doing it for someone else's sake besides Allaah's sake, then you will have to get your reward from that creation on the day of resurrection. Allaah may even allow you to have what you strived for, so if you strived to have honor within your family, lineage, or maybe just to be seen as a hero - Allaah may raise your honor in the sight of these people within this world, but because it was not done for the sake of Allaah, the person will not get their reward from Him.


And Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace. :)

[FBI]

:sl:

You like many others seem to be forgetting the completion of the five pillars of Islam: tawheed, salat, zakat, sawm, hajj. Certain muslims, of similar mindsets, seem to want to take the easy way out: let's go die as a martyr (which, by the way still leaves palestine in its state of destruction - the very opposite of what you went there for!). You do know that you have to earn your way into Jannah - you don't just hand your birth-certificate to God and say, "Sup, G. Yeah I died as a marty, where's my houris at?"

Can u please explain to me how I'm forgetting the five pillers, and secondly how is Jihad(Qitaal) easy? if it's so easy why arn't u and the majority of the ummah defending our lands, let me ask u this do u know why a martry isn't questioned in the grave?

[ManchesterFolk]

how is Jihad(Qitaal) easy? if it's so easy why arn't u and the majority of the ummah defending our lands, let me ask u this do u know why a martry isn't questioned in the grave?

I'm sorry I was under the impression that Jihad was not synonymous with killing someone or fighting. But anyway, what makes it so hard? Go blow yourself up and go to heaven and get some virgins. What an easy way out, especially if your a poor person with nothing in life.

The hard part is living your life, doing good deeds, and trying to actually leave this world better than when you came, instead of killing some kid on a bus for "Jihad".

[FBI]

I'm sorry I was under the impression that Jihad was not synonymous with killing someone or fighting. But anyway, what makes it so hard? Go blow yourself up and go to heaven and get some virgins. What an easy way out, especially if your a poor person with nothing in life.

The hard part is living your life, doing good deeds, and trying to actually leave this world better than when you came, instead of killing some kid on a bus for "Jihad".

:sl:

It's clear u don't understand Jihad so I won't even debate with u on it, Show me where I said blowing ur self up is Jihad please qoute me on it.

[ckerofilm]

MF i think u misunderstand the concept of JIHAD

it means 'struggle' and is not limited to fighting
in fact the best jihad is the struggle against ur own desires for God's sake

[FBI]

MF i think u misunderstand the concept of JIHAD

it means 'struggle' and is not limited to fighting
in fact the best jihad is the struggle against ur own desires for God's sake

:sl:

In fact the hadith your qouting is fabricated and a lie.

[ManchesterFolk]

:sl:

It's clear u don't understand Jihad so I won't even debate with u on it, Show me where I said blowing ur self up is Jihad please qoute me on it.

You said "qitaal" which means to fight. Please have the audacity to inform me that a way of fighting many Muslims have undertaken is not bombing something.

[ckerofilm]

(FBI's post)

I am aware of that but the 'concept' of the hadith is true
the reason it is 'weak' is because it is attributed to the prophet (saw) when it was actually probably one of the companions' statement when returning from jihad we return from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad

[ManchesterFolk]

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/insight...20000704a.html

[ckerofilm]

Don't judge Islam by the actions of some Muslims

[FBI]

You said "qitaal" which means to fight. Please have the audacity to inform me that a way of fighting many Muslims have undertaken is not bombing something.

But u directed that comment at me as if I believe that, I don't in fact I strongly oppose that method/

[Fishman]

:sl:
Jihad can mean fighting. But it can also mean building Masjids, writing polemics, founding Islamic centres of education, helping the elderly and poor (probably something more than just putting a couple of pence on a collection plate though, such as making some sort of welfare reform), or something else like that. Jihad does not literally mean fighting, literally it means 'struggling', or 'striving to purify the world around one'.
There is also Jihad of the soul, which includes fighting off evil thoughts and temptation, and many do say that this is the 'greater Jihad', though this opinion is debateable.
:w:

[ckerofilm]

Masha Allah fishman well said bro

[FBI]

(FBI's post)

I am aware of that but the 'concept' of the hadith is true
the reason it is 'weak' is because it is attributed to the prophet (saw) when it was actually probably one of the companions' statement when returning from jihad we return from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad

:sl:

La Akhi the concept is false.

[ManchesterFolk]

:sl:

La Akhi the concept is false.

So Jihad is really not a word hijacked by terrorists. Wow, who knew, I guess I will stop this myth from spreading about Jihad and "peace". Unless there are different opinions than yours of course.

[ckerofilm]

This is going a bit off-topic but there are many cases when the hadith is weak becasue of its chain of narration but the words themselves are true...

[Fishman]

:sl:

La Akhi the concept is false.

:sl:
Can you prove that? No. Neither can Ckerofilm prove his position, although he has provided more evidence for it, rather than simply asserting it. However, a scholar is able to prove their opinion on it, as they have been studying these things for years, and have books full of hadith we probably have never heard of. So ask a scholar about it, rather than trying to argue by simply saying 'it is false' over and over again.
:w:

[- Qatada -]

So Jihad is really not a word hijacked by terrorists. Wow, who knew, I guess I will stop this myth from spreading about Jihad and "peace". Unless there are different opinions than yours of course.

Where does it say that islaam is simply just a religion of peace? Yes it promotes it, but at the same time its a religion of justice. Therefore anyone who gets attacked has a right to defend themselves. We don't simply keep turning our other cheek.



Peace.

[ckerofilm]

I read about this issue in a hadith book but I don't have that with me anymore (i think it was called something like a brief introduction to the sciences of hadith darussalam publications)
according to that book the words of the hadith were supported by I think an ayah from the quran but I don't remember exactly so i cannot say....
Allahu 'alam

[Fishman]

So Jihad is really not a word hijacked by terrorists. Wow, who knew, I guess I will stop this myth from spreading about Jihad and "peace". Unless there are different opinions than yours of course.

:sl:
Even if FBI is right, that does not necessarily mean that Jihad has not been 'hijacked' by terrorists.
:w:

[FBI]

:sl:
Can you prove that? No. Neither can Ckerofilm prove his position, although he has provided more evidence for it, rather than simply asserting it. However, a scholar is able to prove their opinion on it, as they have been studying these things for years, and have books full of hadith we probably have never heard of. So ask a scholar about it, rather than trying to argue by simply saying 'it is false' over and over again.
:w:

:sl:

I can prove it, listen to imam anwar awlakis lectures, I didn't want to post lenghthy articles as it would go off-topic.

[FBI]

:sl:

Manchester Folk u have a habbit of putting words in my mouth, please in future qoute me, or don't say I believe such and such thank u.

[ManchesterFolk]

:sl:

Manchester Folk u have a habbit of putting words in my mouth, please in future qoute me, or don't say I believe such and such thank u.

Will do.

[Fishman]

Where does it say that islaam is simply just a religion of peace? Yes it promotes it, but at the same time its a religion of justice. Therefore anyone who gets attacked has a right to defend themselves. We don't simply keep turning our other cheek.



Peace.

:sl:
I don't really think this 'religion of peace' thing is really a good thing to promote, since Islam is not actually pacifist like Bhuddism or modern Christianity. 'Not pacifist' does not mean 'warlike', however, it simply means that the ideology in question simply doesn't think that war is inherently wrong. The British in WWII wanted peace, but they certainly were not pacifists.
P.S: Just because Islam believes that war is not inherently wrong does not mean that it believes that war is good, just that it is sometimes, if circumstances are dire, nessesary. The Prophet (pbuh) once told his army to be ready to fight, but not to desire to meet with the enemy.
:w:

[Fishman]

:sl:

I can prove it, listen to imam anwar awlakis lectures, I didn't want to post lenghthy articles as it would go off-topic.

:sl:
You would not be proving it, Mr. Awlaki would be proving it.
:w:

[ManchesterFolk]

it simply means that the ideology in question simply doesn't think that war is inherently wrong.

Of course war if inherently wrong though. War means killing and killing is wrong. War is the defintion of how human society is a failure, because we do not prevent war.

I'm sorry if my values differ from yours but in no way do I accept that war is nessesary or part of life.

[IceQueen~]

it also depends on the situation
some things are far worse than fighting and killing for eg fasad
so is it employing the lesser of two evils in this case...?

[Fishman]

Of course war if inherently wrong though. War means killing and killing is wrong. War is the defintion of how human society is a failure, because we do not prevent war.

I'm sorry if my values differ from yours but in no way do I accept that war is nessesary or part of life.

:sl:
I would say whether a war is wrong or not depends on the reason. I do believe it was wrong to invade Iraq, but I believe it was a good thing that the allies tried to stop the Nazis. If the allies were pacifists, then we would all be speaking German now...
:w:

[ManchesterFolk]

:sl:
I would say whether a war is wrong or not depends on the reason. I do believe it was wrong to invade Iraq, but I believe it was a good thing that the allies tried to stop the Nazis. If the allies were pacifists, then we would all be speaking German now...
:w:

True, but at the same time, Pacifism does not mean to lie down and die, it means to believe in an ideology. If my beliefs of war were held around the world, there would never have been Nazi's or there bigotry.

The problem with Pacifism is that there are so many who believe war is an okay solution, and these people will kill you if you remain a Pacifist.

What I am trying to say is if the Germans were pacifists 50 million people would not have died.

[Fishman]

True, but at the same time, Pacifism does not mean to lie down and die, it means to believe in an ideology. If my beliefs of war were held around the world, there would never have been Nazi's or there bigotry.

The problem with Pacifism is that there are so many who believe war is an okay solution, and these people will kill you if you remain a Pacifist.

What I am trying to say is if the Germans were pacifists 50 million people would not have died.

:sl:
So, basically, pacifism only works if everybody is a pacifist, which is oviously not the case. Therefore, in practice pacifism does not work.
:w:

[Muezzin]

We're really straying from the topic here.

[ManchesterFolk]

:sl:
So, basically, pacifism only works if everybody is a pacifist, which is oviously not the case. Therefore, in practice pacifism does not work.
:w:

Of course pacifism works. Other routes will soon lead us to the destruction of our species because of Nuclear weapons and other things. If a Nuclear war happens so many countries will launch them it will be the end of the world. Therefore, we are not talking about swords anymore.

[Curious girl2]

^^^^ ya i do^^^ Whats better than dying in the cause of Allah and then meeting allah as a martyar a word which today means terrorsit:unhappy:

Hmm, how about living piously, helping others, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, standing up for injustice without taking anothers life in the process..........

Peace CG

[SATalha]

:salamext:


All our lives are dedicated in order to serve Allaah. And the greatest sacrifice a person can make is to die for Allaah's sake.


Here's quite alot of sahih [authentic] evidence.


Virtues of the Martyrs
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=9857

Allhamdulillah

[FBI]

Hmm, how about living piously, helping others, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, standing up for injustice without taking anothers life in the process..........

Peace CG

:sl:

You do know the prophet(pbuh) wanted shuhadaa more then anyone and he him self participated in numerous battles.

[Curious girl2]

:sl:

You do know the prophet(pbuh) wanted shuhadaa more then anyone and he him self participated in numerous battles.

Its one thing to participate in battles, but to blow yourself up just to strike out at civilians isnt right. Yes I know neither you nor anyone else on here have suggested that suicide bombings are right. But the fact is, some people, who just happen to be muslims, misguided ones at that, think its a good idea to strap on an explosive belt, go into a civilian area and pull the cord. They think they are doing to be martyrs, they are wrong.

If anyone really wants to make a difference, try this, find a likeminded Jew, they exist, there are a few on here, find a likeminded Christian, again there are some on here. Go to Palestine, stand at a checkpoint hand in hand, together against ALL injustice and shout for NO MORE DEATHS. The crisis in Palestine/Isreal will never be solved until we all stand together shouting with one voice.

Killing is getting nowhere, neither Isreal or Palestine will win by violence. Jihad doesnt necessarily mean killing.

Peace CG

[SATalha]

Actually it is against Jewish law to rebuild the Holy Temple until the Moshiach comes. By the time the Moshiach comes, no Muslim will have a problem with the rebuilding of the Temple because all Muslims will realize it is the will of G-d. Therefore, don't worry, by the time we rebuild the Temple, you will be helping us take down the existing structure, unless your stubborn enough to reject G-d because of your own personal pride. So basically, until Moshiach comes, you won't have to worry about rebuilding our Temple. And when Moshiach comes, well you won't really care according to our belief.



If you are not careful how you donate to Palestine it can very well be used to by a gun instead of a hot meal for a starving family. You see, many corrupt Palestinians militants see it better to buy a gun to kill then provide for there ownign starving people.

Yes hear we go again, dont try to descredit Interpal they are doing a great job trying to help the Palestinians. You realy think what the Isreali guvernment is doing is Human. Man they are the most racist guvernment in the world (they did support appardtide in S. Africa remember. You call the militants corrupy but infact they are freedom fighters, look at the Isreali prisoner policies its barbaric:raging:

Look all i want is peace in the Holy land and the only way for that is if the Isreali Occupation stops and a nuetral body is placed to control the Holy Land. Isrealis dont know the meaning of comparmise so the go around boldowzing every thing and shooting at anyone. I think the army need target practice coz 9/10 a child is killed:raging: :raging: :raging:

[SATalha]

^^^^ ya i do^^^ Whats better than dying in the cause of Allah and then meeting allah as a martyar a word which today means terrorsit:unhappy:

Ameen

[arabiyyah]

Yes hear we go again, dont try to descredit Interpal they are doing a great job trying to help the Palestinians. You realy think what the Isreali guvernment is doing is Human. Man they are the most racist guvernment in the world (they did support appardtide in S. Africa remember. You call the militants corrupy but infact they are freedom fighters, look at the Isreali prisoner policies its barbaric:raging:

Look all i want is peace in the Holy land and the only way for that is if the Isreali Occupation stops and a nuetral body is placed to control the Holy Land. Isrealis dont know the meaning of comparmise so the go around boldowzing every thing and shooting at anyone. I think the army need target practice coz 9/10 a child is killed:raging: :raging: :raging:

chill out bro. your ragin.

[sudais1]

Yes hear we go again, dont try to descredit Interpal they are doing a great job trying to help the Palestinians. You realy think what the Isreali guvernment is doing is Human. Man they are the most racist guvernment in the world (they did support appardtide in S. Africa remember. You call the militants corrupy but infact they are freedom fighters, look at the Isreali prisoner policies its barbaric:raging:

Look all i want is peace in the Holy land and the only way for that is if the Isreali Occupation stops and a nuetral body is placed to control the Holy Land. Isrealis dont know the meaning of comparmise so the go around boldowzing every thing and shooting at anyone. I think the army need target practice coz 9/10 a child is killed:raging: :raging: :raging:

true, Isreal need to get there sorry butts out of the out of the Holy Land and lets establish peace, no more blow this or blow that up. From "Extermists" and Zionists.

To be Honest I beileve Jerusalem will never see lasting peace untill the Zionist regime leave and are extinct like the USSR

Long Live Palestine :amin: Long live Al Aqsa :amin:

[SATalha]

true, Isreal need to get there sorry butts out of the out of the Holy Land and lets establish peace, no more blow this or blow that up. From "Extermists" and Zionists.

To be Honest I beileve Jerusalem will never see lasting peace untill the Zionist regime leave and are extinct like the USSR

Long Live Palestine :amin: Long live Al Aqsa :amin:

Yes bro zionist need to get out. All i want is peace between the three walks of life. We can achieve it:thumbs_up

[Ninth_Scribe]

You dont need daleel to know that the destruction of Masjid al Aqsa is what the aim is, so that they can build the temple of Soleman (PBUH).

I know the 2 groups you're talking about. I came across one by accident and almost fell over when they announced they had a red heifer... but this is a group of zealots - the Israeli government has forbidden them to step foot anywhere near the Temple mount.

The Golden Rule of the Covenant is: All must stand as one man.

So, you all see the problem?

Ninth Scribe

[eagleye]

I'm not fan of homosexuality, but I wish you would spend more time condemning people who blow buses up, then attacking gays who did nothing to you.

end of violence is the first thing to be occupied.

[UmmHasan]

Its one thing to participate in battles, but to blow yourself up just to strike out at civilians isnt right. Yes I know neither you nor anyone else on here have suggested that suicide bombings are right. But the fact is, some people, who just happen to be muslims, misguided ones at that, think its a good idea to strap on an explosive belt, go into a civilian area and pull the cord. They think they are doing to be martyrs, they are wrong.

If anyone really wants to make a difference, try this, find a likeminded Jew, they exist, there are a few on here, find a likeminded Christian, again there are some on here. Go to Palestine, stand at a checkpoint hand in hand, together against ALL injustice and shout for NO MORE DEATHS. The crisis in Palestine/Isreal will never be solved until we all stand together shouting with one voice.

Killing is getting nowhere, neither Isreal or Palestine will win by violence. Jihad doesnt necessarily mean killing.

Peace CG

I agree with you sister

[Trumble]

If anyone really wants to make a difference, try this, find a likeminded Jew, they exist, there are a few on here, find a likeminded Christian, again there are some on here. Go to Palestine, stand at a checkpoint hand in hand, together against ALL injustice and shout for NO MORE DEATHS. The crisis in Palestine/Isreal will never be solved until we all stand together shouting with one voice.

Killing is getting nowhere, neither Isreal or Palestine will win by violence. Jihad doesnt necessarily mean killing.

Post of the month.

Isrealis dont know the meaning of comparmise

I'm afraid that's a lesson the Arabs taught them very well in the 25 years after the State of Israel was founded. It's a lesson the likes of Hamas and Ahmenijad, not to mention those spouting nonsense about Israel becoming "extinct" seem determined to ensure they do not forget. It's a lesson that can be unlearned, but requires good faith and trust on all sides, and at the moment, sadly, there is little on either.