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ACC
12-27-2006, 06:38 PM
I just read on Yahoo.com that approximately 2 million people will descend upon Mecca for the required pilgrimage this year. Does 2 million seem correct? Using an analytical approach, it seems very low. Considering that it is one of the 5 requirements (I believe I am correct) of Islam, and there are over 1 billion muslims in the world, I would expect a lot more. 2 million would equal 20 million per decade.

Just seems low to me.

I assume that you are 'forgiven' if you can’t afford the trip, which can’t be cheap, which would make the number more reasonable.
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786rani
12-27-2006, 06:45 PM
i don't know but my mum, dad n gran are part of the "2 million"
rani
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Erundur
12-27-2006, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by ACC
I just read on Yahoo.com that approximately 2 million people will descend upon Mecca for the required pilgrimage this year. Does 2 million seem correct? Using an analytical approach, it seems very low. Considering that it is one of the 5 requirements (I believe I am correct) of Islam, and there are over 1 billion muslims in the world, I would expect a lot more. 2 million would equal 20 million per decade.

Just seems low to me.

I assume that you are 'forgiven' if you can’t afford the trip, which can’t be cheap, which would make the number more reasonable.
I believe they put a limit as to how many can go a year, considering todays advances in both Medecine and Technology too many people would of gone but there wouldn't be enough space to fit all of them, and considering the fact that the requirement is to only go at least once, think of how many of already gone.:?
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BlissfullyJaded
12-27-2006, 06:52 PM
Saudi Arabia has quotas set for how many people can go from each country. There are only so many people they can accomodate for in Makkah after all.
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ACC
12-27-2006, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Jawharah
Saudi Arabia has quotas set for how many people can go from each country. There are only so many people they can accomodate for in Makkah after all.
Yeah, a max would make sense because of space, sanitation, etc.
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Zulkiflim
12-28-2006, 09:41 AM
Salaam,

Yep my grandma went 10X...

Can you imagine..

And it is not that cheap for muslim from Singapore to go to Mecca..
We need to pay at least USD 6000 for a trip there,,,wonder how much do you guys pays ..
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786rani
12-28-2006, 01:22 PM
my ppl paid 2 grand each
rani
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FBI
12-28-2006, 01:30 PM
:sl:

People need to stop being so gready and go once, I know of people who have their visas rejected yet their people who go each year, it's fard once, if u been give an opertunity for someone else, if u want extra good deeds pay for someone to go to hajj then you'll recieve double the reward.
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Les_Nubian
12-28-2006, 07:26 PM
It doesn't matter if only five people go to hajj. People pilgrimaged to mecca even before Islam. It just matters that it is in their hearts to go on a spiritual pilgrimage for the sake of Allah, because it is commanded of us. :)

:D
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umm aymin
12-28-2006, 07:43 PM
salaams
for muslims to go on the pilgrimage from south africa can cost between 30 000 rands to 50 000 rands. (converted into $ +/- 5 000 - 7 000) That is really expensive, from my understanding it is among the most expensive countries from which to go on the hajj!! the quota for sa is 7500 pilgrims per hajj season. was salaam
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Trumble
12-29-2006, 01:26 PM
I read in THIS article that between two and three million people are taking part in the Hajj this year.

OK, that's a lot of people, but as I understood it each muslim is required to do this once during their lifetime? I'm no mathematician, but even allowing for the facts that there are some exceptions, and that with Islam growing rapidly there are more young muslims than older ones, those numbers don't add up. Assuming around a billion muslims in the world today and an average lifespan of seventy years or so, it would mean than less than a quarter of muslims actually ever do this?

Am I missing something? What percentage actually do go at some point?
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- Qatada -
12-29-2006, 05:13 PM
Threads Merged.
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Fishman
12-29-2006, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by ACC
I just read on Yahoo.com that approximately 2 million people will descend upon Mecca for the required pilgrimage this year. Does 2 million seem correct? Using an analytical approach, it seems very low. Considering that it is one of the 5 requirements (I believe I am correct) of Islam, and there are over 1 billion muslims in the world, I would expect a lot more. 2 million would equal 20 million per decade.

Just seems low to me.

I assume that you are 'forgiven' if you can’t afford the trip, which can’t be cheap, which would make the number more reasonable.
:sl:
You don't have to go every year, the minimum is once in your life. And yes, if He Wills Allaah (swt) will forgive us if we are not able to go.
:w:
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Pk_#2
12-29-2006, 10:38 PM
AsalamuAlaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh,

We need to go atleast once, not everyone is able to go every year due to illness, old-age, expenses etc...

May Allah forgive those who are not able to perform the hajj.

InshaAllah i'll go next year :)
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Trumble
12-30-2006, 12:26 AM
Originally Posted by Fishman
You don't have to go every year, the minimum is once in your life. And yes, if He Wills Allaah (swt) will forgive us if we are not able to go.
:w:
You don't have to; the point is that the numbers suggest not even a third even go once.


On a related issue, I have another question. If going at all seems to be somewhat flexible, why can't the timing be just as flexible? Every year we hear stories of pigrims crushed to death and such.. if the pilgrimage could be made at any time of the year it would both make it far easier to go (there would be no need for limited allocations of permits), and far easier for the Saudi authorities to keep everybody safe.

The numbers of muslims now are far greater than could even have been concieved in Mohammed's time.. surely the Qur'an could be 'interpreted' in a fashion more relevant to the 21st century?
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Yaqub Sulayman
12-30-2006, 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
You don't have to; the point is that the numbers suggest not even a third even go once.


On a related issue, I have another question. If going at all seems to be somewhat flexible, why can't the timing be just as flexible? Every year we hear stories of pigrims crushed to death and such.. if the pilgrimage could be made at any time of the year it would both make it far easier to go (there would be no need for limited allocations of permits), and far easier for the Saudi authorities to keep everybody safe.

The numbers of muslims now are far greater than could even have been concieved in Mohammed's time.. surely the Qur'an could be 'interpreted' in a fashion more relevant to the 21st century?

You are assuming that every Muslim can actually afford pilgrimage when that is obviously not the case. There is no need to re-interpretation. Muhammad (pbuh) was well aware that the majority of Muslims may not be able to afford Hajj.
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Muhammad
12-30-2006, 12:53 AM
Greetings Trumble,

Originally Posted by Trumble
On a related issue, I have another question. If going at all seems to be somewhat flexible, why can't the timing be just as flexible? Every year we hear stories of pigrims crushed to death and such.. if the pilgrimage could be made at any time of the year it would both make it far easier to go (there would be no need for limited allocations of permits), and far easier for the Saudi authorities to keep everybody safe.
The time for Hajj has been set by Allaah, just like how the five daily prayers have specific times. And Hajj is about carrying out the commands of Allaah and observing fixed rituals as an act of obedience and coming closer to Allaah. By performing various acts of worship, pilgrims are reminded of the great history of Hajj, which is the story of our father Abraham, may peace be upon him, and how he was tested greatly by Allaah in various ways. So if it was to be performed at any time of the year, it would perhaps not be as symbolic and ritual. The main point is, however, that we cannot change the command of Allaah just because we feel like it.

The numbers of muslims now are far greater than could even have been concieved in Mohammed's time.. surely the Qur'an could be 'interpreted' in a fashion more relevant to the 21st century?
Muhammad (peace be upon him) was told by Allaah that he would have the greatest number of followers than all previous Prophets, so we cannot say that this could never have been "conceived" in that time. As for the interpretation of the Qur'an, it is a book suitable for all times and places. It does not change and nor does it need to, for this would mean that it is not applicable to the whole of mankind and it would not befit its purpose. Instead, the Qur'an is interpreted upon knowledge and understanding as opposed to convenience and desire. Anyhow, I don't see how going for pilgrimage at a specific time of the year is so incompatible with the 21st century. Sure, there are many people... but it's not impossible. Hajj is a struggle and a great deed, and thus its reward is likewise immense.

Peace.
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Woodrow
12-30-2006, 01:30 AM
Just a thought about Hajj.

As Bro. Muhammad just said:
Hajj is a struggle and a great deed, and thus its reward is likewise immense.
It has been always that way and always will be. In the past there were more than sufficient accomadations in Makkah for all. There was room for the entire Muslim world to be in comfort while in Makkah for Hajj. But, the trip to get there was long, hard and full of danger. Quite often it took people years of traveling to get there and the conditions on the road were very harsh.

Today the hardship of travel is almost non-existant. It is a trip that can be made from any part of the earth in just a day or two. The trip is very easy and very safe with no real hardship. Now how can this balance out so that all people from all times will experience sacrifice and hardship to make the Hajj. Quite simple. The dificulty is now the great crowds and the monetary expense plus all of the bureaucratic hassels of leaving ones homeland. so although in different manners each person from any time has experienced the same degree of hardship, just in different forms. I would say that the Qur'an is very accurate in terms that apply to both today and 1400 years ago in regards to the Hajj.
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Fishman
12-30-2006, 08:23 PM
:sl:
Is somebody who is crushed on Hajj a Martyr?
:w:
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Abu Zakariya
12-30-2006, 09:07 PM
On a related issue, I have another question. If going at all seems to be somewhat flexible, why can't the timing be just as flexible? Every year we hear stories of pigrims crushed to death and such.. if the pilgrimage could be made at any time of the year it would both make it far easier to go (there would be no need for limited allocations of permits), and far easier for the Saudi authorities to keep everybody safe.
The Hajj is in the month of Dhul-Hijjah and the first ten days of that month are the best days of this world. The 9th day, the most important day of Hajj, is a day of 'Eid for the pilgrims. It's also the day in which the religion was perfected and Allah's Favour was completed, it is the day on which Allah took the covenant from the progeny of Adam 'alayhi-salaam:

It was reported that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah took the covenant from the loins of Adam in Na’maan, i.e., ‘Arafaah. He brought forth from his loins all his offspring and spread them before Him, then He addressed them, and said: ‘Am I not your Lord? They said, ‘Yes, we testify,’ let you should say on the Day of Resurrection: ‘Verily, we have been unaware of this.’ Or lest you should say: ‘It was only our fathers aforetime who took others as partners in worship along with Allaah, and we were (merely their) descendents after them; will You then destroy us because of the deeds of men who practised Al-Baatil (i.e., ploytheism and committing crimes and sins, invoking and worshipping others besides Allaah)?’ [al-A’raaf 7:172-173 – interpretation of the meaning].” Narrated by Ahmad and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani. And there is no greater day than this and no greater covenant than this.

The Hajj is also connected to the 'Eid, which is set to a specific date. So there is a reason for Hajj being in a certain period.

However, one can perform the 'umrah at any time.

The numbers of muslims now are far greater than could even have been concieved in Mohammed's time.. surely the Qur'an could be 'interpreted' in a fashion more relevant to the 21st century?
Muslims don't interpret the Qur'an according to their whims and desires. Especially when there's no need to. It isn't true that the number of Muslims couldn't have been conceived at the time of Muhammad sall Allahu 'aleyhi wa sallam. Here's a translation of a hadith related to this:

“Surely, this religion will reach the boundaries of the day and night and Allah will not spare a rural or an urban dwelling except that he would cause Islam to enter it by elevating some and degrading others. A glory with which Allah elevates Islam and a humiliation with which Allah degrade Kufr (disbelief).”
(Ahmad and Ibn Hibban, saheeh)


And as a brother Muhammad said, there's a hadith in which the Prophet sall Allahu 'aleyhi wa sallam explained that his Ummah will be the largest.
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aqsa1
12-31-2006, 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Is somebody who is crushed on Hajj a Martyr?
:w:
yes they are because they are in the path of Allah.
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