Israel Will Retaliate Against Rockets From Gaza

[SilentObserver]

JERUSALEM, Dec. 27 — A day after two teenage boys were badly wounded by a rocket fired from Gaza, Israel ordered the military on Wednesday to resume attacks on Palestinians firing such rockets.

The order was issued a month after a cease-fire was declared between Israel and Palestinians in Gaza. The Palestinians promised to stop rocket fire on Nov. 26, and the Israelis promised not to carry out military activities inside Gaza.

But as of Wednesday night, according to the Israeli Army, 66 rockets had been launched toward Israel since then and 52 had landed there. The ruling militant group Hamas said it was respecting the cease-fire but was doing nothing to stop other militant groups, like Islamic Jihad and Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades, which is linked to Fatah, Hamas’s rival.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel, encouraged by the United States to support the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, and to restart talks with the Palestinians, had ordered the military not to respond, but political pressure to do so was growing. Mr. Olmert was being criticized from the left by his own defense minister, Amir Peretz of the Labor Party, and from the right by Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader of Likud.

That pressure heightened overnight, when a Qassam rocket launched by Islamic Jihad hit two 14-year-old boys walking home in Sderot, an Israeli border town. The youths were taken to a hospital in Ashkelon. One, Adir Ghasad, was in critical but stable condition, peppered with shrapnel, the hospital said; the other, Matan Cohen, was in serious condition. Matan had been injured once before by Qassam shrapnel, his friends told Israeli news media.

So on Wednesday morning Mr. Olmert ordered the military, including the air force, to resume action against those firing the rockets. The military will be permitted to strike before, while or after rockets are launched.

The military will not, however, be allowed to fire shells into open areas near the border to deter rocket-launching teams from entering them. Errant Israeli shells, usually from tanks or artillery, have in the past hit houses and other populated areas, killing uninvolved civilians. Nor will the air force be allowed to bomb weapons caches or individuals not involved in rocket firing.

Mr. Olmert said in a statement that otherwise, “Israel will continue to maintain the cease-fire and work with the Palestinian Authority so that immediate steps are taken to halt the Qassam firings.”

The cease-fire was intended to break the cycle of violence, but Palestinian rocket fire continued intermittently. Islamic Jihad and Al Aksa — which supposedly is loyal to Mr. Abbas, who has opposed the rocket fire as counterproductive — say they are responding to Israeli military actions in the occupied West Bank, an area not part of the truce.

Mr. Abbas had said that he had the agreement of all Palestinian factions for the cease-fire, but Islamic Jihad, largely directed by Iran, has never respected such an agreement, and on Wednesday threatened to increase the rocket fire.

The Hamas government spokesman, Ghazi Hamad, criticized the Israeli decision as aggression, but he added, “We still believe this agreement is alive, and both sides should respect this agreement because it is in the interest of our people.”

A Labor Party minister and former defense minister, Benjamin Eliezer, told Israel Radio: “We cannot restrain ourselves anymore. It’s good that we did, because the entire world saw that we did above and beyond, but we cannot turn an entire town into a graveyard.”

Mr. Netanyahu called on the government to take over northern Gaza and occupy the areas from which rockets are fired and to take control over the border of Gaza with Egypt to stop arms smuggling.

The Egyptian foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, was in a snowy Jerusalem on Wednesday preparing for a summit meeting on Jan. 4 in Sharm el-Sheik, an Egyptian Red Sea resort, between Mr. Olmert and President Hosni Mubarak.

Egypt has been trying to advance talks with the Palestinians and to secure the release of an Israeli soldier, Cpl. Gilad Shalit, who was captured in June, in return for more than 1,000 Palestinians in Israeli jails.

“We oppose the Qassam attacks on Israel,” Mr. Aboul Gheit said. “We hope that Israel will continue to show restraint. We need to continue with the peace process because that is the way to progress.”

Mr. Abbas was in Cairo on Wednesday, where he met with Mr. Mubarak.

He said after the meeting that when he met with Mr. Olmert on Saturday night, he proposed what he described as backdoor meetings with Mr. Olmert, The Associated Press reported.

“It is the right time to talk,” Mr. Abbas told reporters. “We have the idea of a backdoor channel between us and the Israelis, with the participation of one or all members of the quartet to discuss all the issues of the final status,” he said. The quartet members are the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations, which oversee the peace efforts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/28/wo...el&oref=slogin

The Hamas government spokesman, Ghazi Hamad, criticized the Israeli decision as aggression

Oh please, self-defense is aggression? They should just smile as Qassams are launched at them?

[SilentObserver]

That pressure heightened overnight, when a Qassam rocket launched by Islamic Jihad hit two 14-year-old boys walking home in Sderot, an Israeli border town. The youths were taken to a hospital in Ashkelon. One, Adir Ghasad, was in critical but stable condition, peppered with shrapnel, the hospital said; the other, Matan Cohen, was in serious condition. Matan had been injured once before by Qassam shrapnel, his friends told Israeli news media.

Either Matan is very unlucky, or alot of Qassams are fired into his neighborhood.

[Dawud_uk]

hang on a minute...

hamas agree to a cease fire and stick to it, fatah agree to many cease fires and break them repeatedly.

so to stop this state of affairs the US and Israel as well as the rest of the West are supporting fatah against hamas because they believe this will lead to peace...

nope, doesnt make any sense to me at all.

Abu Abdullah

[SilentObserver]

hang on a minute...

hamas agree to a cease fire and stick to it, fatah agree to many cease fires and break them repeatedly.

so to stop this state of affairs the US and Israel as well as the rest of the West are supporting fatah against hamas because they believe this will lead to peace...

nope, doesnt make any sense to me at all.

Abu Abdullah

I'm not sure of what you are saying here. Are you saying fatah 'historically' broke the ceasefires repeatedly, or since the new leadership? Could you post some proof of either way please?

This time around anyway, fatah is trying to keep it together.

I am sure that you agree that Israel had the right to retaliate each time fatah repeatedly broke the ceasefire.

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[Dawud_uk]

I'm not sure of what you are saying here. Are you saying fatah 'historically' broke the ceasefires repeatedly, or since the new leadership? Could you post some proof of either way please?

This time around anyway, fatah is trying to keep it together.

I am sure that you agree that Israel had the right to retaliate each time fatah repeatedly broke the ceasefire.

they stole the land in the first place and i for one will hold a street party the day the state of israel is destroyed if i am still alive to see it.

and the evidence is in the article you posted, hamas have kept their truce, fatah have not. but the west does deals with fatah and not hamas which i find ironic.

[SilentObserver]

they stole the land in the first place and i for one will hold a street party the day the state of israel is destroyed if i am still alive to see it.

and the evidence is in the article you posted, hamas have kept their truce, fatah have not. but the west does deals with fatah and not hamas which i find ironic.

Are you going to try to convince us that hamas have 'historically' held their integrity when it came to ceasefires? The article does not say that fatah broke the ceasefire. Islamic Jihad and Al Aksa are not fatah, they usually support each other, but are not fatah.

Personally, my street party will be held when Hamas is destroyed. Palestinians will never have peace as long as Hamas exists.

[Dawud_uk]

Are you going to try to convince us that hamas have 'historically' held their integrity when it came to ceasefires? The article does not say that fatah broke the ceasefire. Islamic Jihad and Al Aksa are not fatah, they usually support each other, but are not fatah.

Personally, my street party will be held when Hamas is destroyed. Palestinians will never have peace as long as Hamas exists.

yes, hamas keep their word or have so far. like them or loath them but if they say something they mean it and will stick to their end of the bargin until the other side breaks theirs.

as muslims we dont lie, we keep our word. but fatah are secularists, they dont care for islam and dont care for keeping their word. where as fatah might say they will keep their word and have peace in truth they would break it as soon as they found it more convenient.

where as hamas have promised a long term truce, which they will keep to if israel withdraws to the 67 borders and can sign for 10, 20 or even 50 years. this was the position of their late much respected leaders and they will keep their word because they are practicing muslims unless the israelis attack them first and then they will break it as the truce will be over.

personally i think a worse deal with a group of people you know will stick to their word is better than a better deal with a group you must always guard against and cannot trust.

[SilentObserver]

double post

[SilentObserver]

yes, hamas keep their word or have so far. like them or loath them but if they say something they mean it and will stick to their end of the bargin until the other side breaks theirs.

as muslims we dont lie, we keep our word. but fatah are secularists, they dont care for islam and dont care for keeping their word. where as fatah might say they will keep their word and have peace in truth they would break it as soon as they found it more convenient.

where as hamas have promised a long term truce, which they will keep to if israel withdraws to the 67 borders and can sign for 10, 20 or even 50 years. this was the position of their late much respected leaders and they will keep their word because they are practicing muslims unless the israelis attack them first and then they will break it as the truce will be over.

personally i think a worse deal with a group of people you know will stick to their word is better than a better deal with a group you must always guard against and cannot trust.

Historically, Hamas has broken their word again and again.

as muslims we dont lie

Correction: as muslims you are not supposed to lie. I have been lied to many times by muslims, as much as by any other person.
Most people that support Hamas don't give a hoot for palestinians, they only care that they thumb thier noses at Israel. People that care for palestinians want to see the violence end, and everybody knows that Hamas will not do that.
To quote a muslim member of this forum;

Not every Palestinian is a war mongering, iranian puppet like hamas. Some actually want Palestinians to get a state like Fatah and do not want another 100 years of war and suffering so extremists can continue there "war".

they stole the land in the first place

There never was a palestinian state.

[Dawud_uk]

Historically, Hamas has broken their word again and again.
Correction: as muslims you are not supposed to lie. I have been lied to many times by muslims, as much as by any other person.
Most people that support Hamas don't give a hoot for palestinians, they only care that they thumb thier noses at Israel. People that care for palestinians want to see the violence end, and everybody knows that Hamas will not do that.
To quote a muslim member of this forum;



There never was a palestinian state.

have you ever been lied to by me?
when have hamas lied, as you often say yourself where is the evidence for that?

and you are right there was never a state called palestine, it was part of al-sham, the islamically governed region including syria and lebonon and when the kalafate returns it will most likely return to that state.

what happens to the jews when the kalafate returns is largely determined by their actions now, i would like them to pay reperations for the damage done and lives destroyed and pay jiziyah for continuing to live there but the state known of israel, a seperate entity will be gone and i have apsolute faith in that taking place.

Abu Abdullah

[SilentObserver]

have you ever been lied to by me?
when have hamas lied, as you often say yourself where is the evidence for that?

and you are right there was never a state called palestine, it was part of al-sham, the islamically governed region including syria and lebonon and when the kalafate returns it will most likely return to that state.

what happens to the jews when the kalafate returns is largely determined by their actions now, i would like them to pay reperations for the damage done and lives destroyed and pay jiziyah for continuing to live there but the state known of israel, a seperate entity will be gone and i have apsolute faith in that taking place.

Abu Abdullah

have you ever been lied to by me?

I don't know, you tell me. And your questions distracts from what you were saying. You offered that "muslims don't lie", as a supporting arguement, not "I don't lie".

when have hamas lied, as you often say yourself where is the evidence for that?

Look it up, you made no effort to back your claims when I asked. Besides, it is common knowledge. Just look up any agreement with Israel that Hamas was party to, or obligated under, and you will find them breaking their word.

and i have apsolute faith in that taking place

.
Well, good luck with that. Just don't hold your breath.

[Dawud_uk]

I don't know, you tell me. And your questions distracts from what you were saying. You offered that "muslims don't lie", as a supporting arguement, not "I don't lie".

Look it up, you made no effort to back your claims when I asked. Besides, it is common knowledge. Just look up any agreement with Israel that Hamas was party to, or obligated under, and you will find them breaking their word.
.
Well, good luck with that. Just don't hold your breath.

lol,

the crusader kingdoms were in the middle east for 150 years and you would expect the muslims to give up after a little over 50 years of zionist occupation.

we are a patient people and victory will come eventually.

[ManchesterFolk]

and the evidence is in the article you posted, hamas have kept their truce, fatah have not. but the west does deals with fatah and not hamas which i find ironic.

hamas agree to a cease fire and stick to it, fatah agree to many cease fires and break them repeatedly.

The Rockets were fired by a group that Hamas funds. Hamas has not kept the cease fire because they are funding other sub groups to fire rockets and now Israel like any country has a right to protect itself.

they stole the land in the first place and i for one will hold a street party the day the state of israel is destroyed if i am still alive to see it.

How naive and single minded. Jewish artifacts found in Israel date back farther than any Arab prescnse in the Holy Land. Do you think Arabs began living in Isral one day, or came out of the sea or something??? Of course not, Muslims have stole land/conquered land to. How do you think it came under there control in the first place???

the crusader kingdoms were in the middle east for 150 years and you would expect the muslims to give up after a little over 50 years of zionist occupation.

we are a patient people and victory will come eventually.

Did the Crusaders have a button that could launch hundreds of Nukes into the air if they were being overurn effectivly destroying or "wiping off the map" just about every "Islamic State".

Crusaders did not have the technology there are these days.

[Dawud_uk]

The Rockets were fired by a group that Hamas funds. Hamas has not kept the cease fire because they are funding other sub groups to fire rockets and now Israel like any country has a right to protect itself.



How naive and single minded. Jewish artifacts found in Israel date back farther than any Arab prescnse in the Holy Land. Do you think Arabs began living in Isral one day, or came out of the sea or something??? Of course not, Muslims have stole land/conquered land to. How do you think it came under there control in the first place???



Did the Crusaders have a button that could launch hundreds of Nukes into the air if they were being overurn effectivly destroying or "wiping off the map" just about every "Islamic State".

Crusaders did not have the technology there are these days.

you truly are ignorant, these groups are linked to fatah not hamas. tell me do all arabs look the same to you?

[Keltoi]

I hope that when another election is held in the Palestinian territories, Fatah will be put back in power. While Abbas is far from perfect, he seemed to be much more dedicated to improving the lives of Palestinians than Hamas seems to be. I also find it somewhat perplexing that Hamas fires rockets from Gaza on a routine basis, and then condemns Israel for its violent reaction to it.

[ManchesterFolk]

you truly are ignorant, these groups are linked to fatah not hamas. tell me do all arabs look the same to you?

No, but the attacks have been claimed by the group known as: "Islamic Jihad". If you did not know, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) are Islamic extremist terrorist organizations that call for the eradication of Israel. Hamas and Islamic Jihad will often work together and make statements in unison like when they both make declarations together (CLICK FOR EXAMPLE). Arafat and his Fatah party have often been against Islamic Jihad and Hamas members sometimes arresting them because of attacks on Fatah supporters as well as innocent Israeli citizens.

Correct me if I am wrong but are both not based in Syria as well? Hmmm....

[Dawud_uk]

No, but the attacks have been claimed by the group known as: "Islamic Jihad". If you did not know, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) are Islamic extremist terrorist organizations that call for the eradication of Israel. Hamas and Islamic Jihad will often work together and make statements in unison like when they both make declarations together (CLICK FOR EXAMPLE). Arafat and his Fatah party have often been against Islamic Jihad and Hamas members sometimes arresting them because of attacks on Fatah supporters as well as innocent Israeli citizens.

Correct me if I am wrong but are both not based in Syria as well? Hmmm....

yeah and the black panther movement and the kkk are both based in the US, coincidence? well some people might say so but i have my doubts.

they are two entirely seperate movements with differing goals, islamic jihad doesnt support a truce, hamas does on the correct terms.

[snakelegs]

will these people ever learn?
the palestinians kill some israelis, then the israelis kill some pals (usually many more), for which the pals kill some more israelis, then the israelis kill even more pals, so the pals kill a few more israelis which cause the israelis to kill a bunch more palestinians and destroy a bunch of houses while they're at it, for which...... and on and on and on.
it has never worked. it will never work.
where will it end?

[Yaqub Sulayman]

will these people ever learn?
the palestinians kill some israelis, then the israelis kill some pals (usually many more), for which the pals kill some more israelis, then the israelis kill even more pals, so the pals kill a few more israelis which cause the israelis to kill a bunch more palestinians and destroy a bunch of houses while they're at it, for which...... and on and on and on.
it has never worked. it will never work.
where will it end?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6215769.stm

Looks like the Israelis are the bigger problem.

[SilentObserver]

, islamic jihad doesnt support a truce, hamas does on the correct terms.

No, actually they don't. They are dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and any truce would simply be a strategic move by Hamas.

From the Hamas Charter:

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.

Seems clear.

Another one from the charter;

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.

And a few more from the charter;

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up.

After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.

The entire charter is a series of hateful statements about Israel, and to summarize calls for the creation of the Palestinian state by the destruction of Israel.
It is very clear. There is no possibility that Hamas will ever rest until Israel is destroyed.

[Yaqub Sulayman]

No, actually they don't. They are dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and any truce would simply be a strategic move by Hamas.

From the Hamas Charter:
Seems clear.

Another one from the charter;And a few more from the charter;

The entire charter is a series of hateful statements about Israel, and to summarize calls for the creation of the Palestinian state by the destruction of Israel.
It is very clear. There is no possibility that Hamas will ever rest until Israel is destroyed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6215769.stm

B'Tselem, which monitors human rights in the occupied territories, said the figure included 141 children.

At least 322 had taken no part in hostile acts, the group said.

In the same period, the number of deadly Palestinian attacks on Israelis has fallen - 23 Israelis were killed in 2006 compared with 50 last year.

Since June, Israeli troops have killed about 405 Palestinians in Gaza, including 88 children. More than half of the casualties were civilians, B'Tselem said.

As of November, 9,075 Palestinians were being held in Israeli jails. This number included 345 minors, it said.

Of these, 738 (22 minors) were being detained without trial and without knowing the charges against them, the group said.


No wonder why the Palestinians are hateful. I dont blame them a bit.

[SilentObserver]

No wonder why the Palestinians are hateful. I dont blame them a bit.

No wonder the Israelis attack, I don't blame them a bit.

[Dawud_uk]

No, actually they don't. They are dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and any truce would simply be a strategic move by Hamas.

From the Hamas Charter:
Seems clear.

Another one from the charter;And a few more from the charter;

The entire charter is a series of hateful statements about Israel, and to summarize calls for the creation of the Palestinian state by the destruction of Israel.
It is very clear. There is no possibility that Hamas will ever rest until Israel is destroyed.

check the meaning of the word 'truce' and then you might want to edit your comments.

a truce, i.e temporary not perminent settlement so that violence is stopped but that the long term settlement can wait until calmer heads reign.

[SilentObserver]

check the meaning of the word 'truce' and then you might want to edit your comments.

a truce, i.e temporary not perminent settlement so that violence is stopped but that the long term settlement can wait until calmer heads reign.

You are correct.

A truce is a waste of time with Hamas though. How long till they employ some sneak attack and then try to hide behind the truce?

I say bite the bullet of international whining, and move in and wipe them out once and for all.

[Yaqub Sulayman]

No wonder the Israelis attack, I don't blame them a bit.

LOL, you never fail to put biased assertions in place of facts and statistics.

The Israelis attack and kill because they're occupying other people's land. Obviously your hate for Muslims will just lead u to making excuses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6215769.stm

^^ That articles speaks for itself.

[Dawud_uk]

You are correct.

A truce is a waste of time with Hamas though. How long till they employ some sneak attack and then try to hide behind the truce?

I say bite the bullet of international whining, and move in and wipe them out once and for all.

hmmm a final solution, that one's not been tried before has it?

[snakelegs]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6215769.stm

Looks like the Israelis are the bigger problem.

well, they certainly kill a lot more people than the palestinians do. (as well as destroy houses, which i think is second only to killing/maiming people in degree of horrible.)
but why do both sides continue endlessly playing this bloody game - each killing only causes more killing from the other side, and on it goes...
surely neither side can actually believe that if they just blow up a few more of the enemy they will be left alone?
if there were ever proof that violence doesn't solve problems - the mideast is the prime example.

[Yaqub Sulayman]

You are correct.

A truce is a waste of time with Hamas though. How long till they employ some sneak attack and then try to hide behind the truce?

I say bite the bullet of international whining, and move in and wipe them out once and for all.

You are wrong. Truce with Israel is useless.

1.) Over half of the people they kill are innocent civilians who never engaged in hostile attacks.

2.) They're occupying other people's territory, even in the West Bank.

3.) Deaths caused by Hamas has been REDUCED since last year.

4.) Deaths caused by the IDF has TRIPLED since last year.

5.) 738 Palestinians are in Israeli jail without even knowing the charges against them.



Removed: personal bashing

[ManchesterFolk]

check the meaning of the word 'truce' and then you might want to edit your comments.

a truce, i.e temporary not perminent settlement so that violence is stopped but that the long term settlement can wait until calmer heads reign.

Yeah, I'm am positive you cannot find "but firing rockets at jewish teens are okay during truces" in your dictionary.

.) Over half of the people they kill are innocent civilians who never engaged in hostile attacks.

Human shields are an excellent way to win propaganda wars.

http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=37636
http://volokh.com/files/davidb-hezbolllah.jpg
http://volokh.com/posts/1154237903.shtml

2.) They're occupying other people's territory, even in the West Bank.

Why is that now? Maybe because of Arab agression. If their is no Arab attacks on Israel, Israel never occupies the West Bank out of its own protection because snipers made use of the high ground to kill civilians.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...x-Day_War.html

3.) Deaths caused by Hamas has been REDUCED since last year.

Really? Have you not noticed the amount of affiliated groups with Hamas has grown since they came into power. Instead of Hamas other groups with different names are doing the killing now, and Hamas can say "it was them".

4.) Deaths caused by the IDF has TRIPLED since last year.

The amount of rockets fired at Israel has increased over 20X times. Of course Israel will respond to a direct threat on them. Remember, if Hamas and Hezbollah do not kidnap soldiers, two major conflicts never occur.

5.) 738 Palestinians are in Israeli jail without even knowing the charges against them.

The charges? Firing rockets at civilians, training suicide bombers, terrorism... Do you think the Israeli's just walk in and imprison people. Why waste the space and money to feed them and jail them and gaurd them if they are no threat?

[Yaqub Sulayman]

well, they certainly kill a lot more people than the palestinians do. (as well as destroy houses, which i think is second only to killing/maiming people in degree of horrible.)
but why do both sides continue endlessly playing this bloody game - each killing only causes more killing from the other side, and on it goes...
surely neither side can actually believe that if they just blow up a few more of the enemy they will be left alone?
if there were ever proof that violence doesn't solve problems - the mideast is the prime example.

Yo want to know why?? Let me answer:

1.) Palestinians fight for survival. They lands and water have been stolen away from them. They are resisting Israeli aggression in THEIR land in the West bank and Gaza. They are unemployed. They are treated like Jews under Nazi Germany, since they have to travel with identification that they're Palestinians. The Israelis have a system of apartheid with the Palestinians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...650426,00.html

2.) Israelis attack because they are occupying land that is not their to begin with. With an increasing Jewish population the IDF needs to take up more land and resources for Jewish settlements. They are killing Arabs and stealing all this in the name of defense. Statistics and observances by human rights think tanks have debunked the lie that Israel is defending itself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6213193.stm

[SilentObserver]

LOL, you never fail to put biased assertions in place of facts and statistics.

The Israelis attack and kill because they're occupying other people's land. Obviously your hate for Muslims will just lead u to making excuses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6215769.stm

^^ That articles speaks for itself.

The Israelis attack and kill because they're occupying other people's land.

No, they occupy the land of Israel. It belongs to them.

Obviously your hate for Muslims will just lead u to making excuses.

Hate for muslims? Oh oh! what will I tell my muslim friends? None of us knew all of this time that I hated them.

Any person knows that if you shoot at me with a pistol and I have a cannon, when I shoot back there is going to be alot more damage. That pistol can still kill though. And it does. And so do the bombs, rockets, assault rifles, etc. Numbers don't mean much. One dead Israeli (or palestinian) civilian is too many. Of course they will hit back. And of course they hit back harder, because they can. It would make to sense to hit back softly.

[Yaqub Sulayman]

Yeah, I'm am positive you cannot find "but firing rockets at jewish teens are okay during truces" in your dictionary.

Neither will you find riddling bullets at Palestinian school girls. Statistics speaks for itself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6215769.stm

As you can see, deaths caused by Hamas has decreased since last year. Deaths caused by the IDF has tripled.

[SilentObserver]

1.) Over half of the people they kill are innocent civilians who never engaged in hostile attacks.

And nearly all the people killed by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc are innocent civilians.

[ManchesterFolk]

And nearly all the people killed by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc are innocent civilians.

I think you misunderstand the ideology of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. You see... if you are a Jew living in Israel, your not innocent according to Hamas. If your a Palestinian with a bomb vest off to blow up a schoolbus then your a freedom fighter. :skeleton: :exhausted

Review:

Hamas ideology: Jew = Not innocent

[Curious girl2]

Will you guys stop and listen to each other! These threads go round and round saying exactly the same thing! I've said this before on a similar thread the other week.

It doesnt matter who fired the last shot, the ones to blame are the ones firing the next shot!!!

Going round and round blaming each side acheives nothing at all. How do you armchair politicians really know what is going on in the Palestinian territories or in Isreal? Earlier today I read a post from a Palestinian himself. He is THERE, he KNOWS.

What chance is there for peace if people on here cannot get on and discuss things in a mature manner?

Stop it already!

Peace CG

[ManchesterFolk]

Will you guys stop and listen to each other! These threads go round and round saying exactly the same thing! I've said this before on a similar thread the other week.

It doesnt matter who fired the last shot, the ones to blame are the ones firing the next shot!!!

Going round and round blaming each side acheives nothing at all. How do you armchair politicians really know what is going on in the Palestinian territories or in Isreal? Earlier today I read a post from a Palestinian himself. He is THERE, he KNOWS.

What chance is there for peace if people on here cannot get on and discuss things in a mature manner?

Stop it already!

Peace CG

Nice post and true. I would rep ya but I have reped to many people today, i'll get ya tommorow with a rep, just remind me :D

[Woodrow]

Curious girl just gave some good advice.

[Yaqub Sulayman]

Hamas charter:

"For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave"

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm


Israel would not even be in the West Bank if it wasn't for Arabs attacking her, and then Israel destroying the Muslim attackers

1.) Obviously they did not mean Jews in general, they meant Zionist Jews.

2.) The other two quotes are apparently NOT anti-Semitic. The land of the Palestinians have been stolen from them and they have every right to resist occupation. I do not agree with their methodology though.

3.) They are not in the West Bank for defense. They are in the West Bank to make more Jewish settlements.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6213193.stm

The "Muslims" are being defeated because they are poor, unemployed, and unarmed. They Israelis love to prey on them.

[SilentObserver]

People that support hamas and dislike Fatah don't care about the Palestinian people. They only care that hamas thumbs their nose at Israel. They care more about that then seeing the people find peace. Real, permanent peace. Not the kind where they wait until Hamas decides they are ready for more violence.

It doesnt matter who fired the last shot, the ones to blame are the ones firing the next shot!!!

Exactly.

[Yaqub Sulayman]

I've been online too long now. I'll pick on you two when I come back :D

[Curious girl2]

This is getting to be like a cat trying to catch its tail.

Exactly. Just like the situation in Palestine. I could cry, I honestly could, when I read threads like this. NOTHING will ever come from blaming the other side. Nothing will ever come from bulldozing home, firing misiles, blowing yourself up, shooting, raids etc. Nothing, except you will make yet another mother cry.

I can remember in my teens, at the height of the cold war, there was a cartoon in the newspaper. It showed the US leader (Reagan) and the Soviet leader (Brezhnev) in a school playground blaming and threatening each other over the cold war. In the middle was a small child saying to both of them "why dont you just stop?". But the truth was, as everybody knew, neither wanted to be seen as weak. The same thing is happening here. Nobody is going to win, only more mothers will lose their sons.

Will it ever end? Will humanity ever learn?
Peace CG

[Curious girl2]

Deleted comment

Both sides are as bad as each other.

Peace CG

[ManchesterFolk]

Well I am done, see ya guys, this debate is pointless, and why should I waste my time debating someone so brainwashed.

I feel sorry when all people die, and before I came here I was a suporter of the Palestinains as a "liberal" but the ugly face of extremism has suprisingly kept me on the side of Israel because I basically see how nuts some of you are.

My goal is to keep things balanced here and balance from some peoples stand points leads me to promote some equally suprising stand points.

Later guys.

[Woodrow]

This thread has not been a debate it has been an arguement.

:threadclo