Worshipping together?

[glo]

I was reading the thread about Cordoba's Cathedral in the World Affairs section, which made me wonder about this question.
Rather than putting it into the thread there, I decided to start a new thread here.

My question is:
Has anybody been to a place of worship, where Muslims and Christians worship side by side? (At least Eric and Dawud_uk have made references to having participated in this kind of joint worship)
If so, what is that like?
Do people think it is beneficial? Or should it be avoided?
Has it been interesting/helpful/distracting/annoying to watch others worship the same God in different ways?

Thank you. :)

Peace

[Dawud_uk]

peace glo,

in islam we do not believe the worship of the christians to be valid as they are associating partners with Allah with their trinity concepts and worshipping the prophet Isa (jesus) peace be upon him along with Allah and what you term the holy spirit.

however a christian or indeed anyone should be welcomed if they come to the masjid and if they do they are allowed to stand in prayer with us, and take part and we wouldnt turn them away from the masjid unless they started to try to preach their faith to us.

peace,
Abu Abdullah

[glo]

peace glo,

in islam we do not believe the worship of the christians to be valid as they are associating partners with Allah with their trinity concepts and worshipping the prophet Isa (jesus) peace be upon him along with Allah and what you term the holy spirit.

however a christian or indeed anyone should be welcomed if they come to the masjid and if they do they are allowed to stand in prayer with us, and take part and we wouldnt turn them away from the masjid unless they started to try to preach their faith to us.

peace,
Abu Abdullah

Greetings, Abu Abdullah

So from your point of view it is a case of 'we can only worship together if you worship our way'?

What if Christians come to your mosque to stand in prayer with you, but you know that in their hearts they believe Jesus to be divine (even if they don't speak of it in your presence)?

Peace

[Dawud_uk]

Greetings, Abu Abdullah

So from your point of view it is a case of 'we can only worship together if you worship our way'?

What if Christians come to your mosque to stand in prayer with you, but you know that in their hearts they believe Jesus to be divine (even if they don't speak of it in your presence)?

Peace

to answer your first point, yes that is correct. i do not believe your prayers or methods of prayer to be valid in the sight of God as i know it from the light of the Quran and the example left to us from Muhammad saws. therefore i cannot accept your's as a valid method of reaching God, hope this doesnt offend you but as you know i dont lie this is just me being honest here.

and to answer your 2nd point,
they can believe what they want in their hearts and maybe them being there surrounded by good polite nice people will change their hearts for the better or at least make them more sympathetic towards the muslims in the uk so in my masjid we welcome them and have had people praying with us before, in fact i was going to the masjid to pray with the muslims but i decided that that night i would revert instead.

peace,
Abu Abdullah

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[glo]

Thank you, Abu Abdullah :)

[Keltoi]

Using Dawud's logic, isn't that a hypocritical stance to take in the context of the Cordoba issue?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Can i poke my nose in here too? You know i can't help myself. :D

We do have a place where Sikhs and Muslims pray together, so it's safe to say we can all unite to pray to God under one banner be it Christian, Jew, Hindu Jain etc etc without trying to kill each other or trying to convert.

Guru Ki Maseet. (Mosque of the Guru)

http://www.info-sikh.com/MassPage1.html

[- Qatada -]

Hey.


The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) allowed the Christians of Najraan to pray in his mosque, facing towards their “qiblah” (direction of prayer).

End quote from Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah, 2/819-823.

Extracted from IslamQA

[glo]

Can i poke my nose in here too? You know i can't help myself. :D

We do have a place where Sikhs and Muslims pray together, so it's safe to say we can all unite to pray to God under one banner be it Christian, Jew, Hindu Jain etc etc without trying to kill each other or trying to convert.

Guru Ki Maseet. (Mosque of the Guru)

http://www.info-sikh.com/MassPage1.html

Thanks, AvarAllahNoor

Permission to post granted! :D

So what is it like when people of different faiths pray together?
Or do different faiths take it 'in turn'? (There is a picture in your link of Sikhs watching Muslims pray.)
Presumaby, when prayer is organised in a certain ritual/routine, you cannot easily have different groups praying together ...? :?
(I mean, for example, you couldn't have hundreds of Muslims standing in orderly lines, praying, and a bunch of pentecostal Christians jumping around and shaking tambourines ... :uuh: :giggling:)

How does it work in practice?
Have you yourself participated in joint worship?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

thats so cool! Sikhs sitting their watchin and Muslims praying. Neato i say :D

And to glo...^^LOL. u cracked me up :)

[glo]

thats so cool! Sikhs sitting their watchin and Muslims praying. Neato i say :D

And to glo...^^LOL. u cracked me up :)

Greetings, Tayyaba

Well, I can shake a tambourine with the best of them :D ... although often I choose other, more gentle ways to worship the Lord.

Peace

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ which by the way is the correct way, in my opinion. with silence not noise. with focus not distraction...:)

[glo]

^^ which by the way is the correct way, in my opinion. with silence not noise. with focus not distraction...:)

Yes, I know what you mean, Tayyaba. :)
But I suppose it is personal preference - God himself looks at the heart and at the intention behind our worship. I don't think he minds just how we worship him, as long as we are sincere.

And David is reported to have sung and danced before the Lord, and he wrote many of the Psalms ... so dancing, singing and making music are all approriate ways of worship for most Christians.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Thanks, AvarAllahNoor

Permission to post granted! :D

So what is it like when people of different faiths pray together?
Or do different faiths take it 'in turn'? (There is a picture in your link of Sikhs watching Muslims pray.)

Presumaby, when prayer is organised in a certain ritual/routine, you cannot easily have different groups praying together ...? :?

(I mean, for example, you couldn't have hundreds of Muslims standing in orderly lines, praying, and a bunch of pentecostal Christians jumping around and shaking tambourines ... :uuh: :giggling:)

How does it work in practice?

Have you yourself participated in joint worship?

Well how i see it is you can't have a muslim bowing down and the christian banging his tamborine. You need to focus. - The Mosque is used by Muslims only, but Sikhs will pray there too. (We don't need anything to focus on or any particular direction) It's like using a shared community centre. You'd have your own ways but coming together to do it! - Bringing humanity together just as the Creator wants.

Hallelujah Praise The Lord! :statisfie :)

[glo]

Well how i see it is you can't have a muslim bowing down and the christian banging his tamborine. You need to focus. - The Mosque is used by Muslims only, but Sikhs will pray there too. (We don't need anything to focus on or any particular direction) It's like using a shared community centre. You'd have your own ways but coming together to do it! - Bringing humanity together just as the Creator wants.

Sounds good to me, AvarAllahNoor. :)

Hallelujah Praise The Lord! :statisfie :)

Amen, brother!! *shakes her tambourine ...* :D

peace

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yes, I know what you mean, Tayyaba. :)
But I suppose it is personal preference - God himself looks at the heart and at the intention behind our worship. I don't think he minds just how we worship him, as long as we are sincere.

And David is reported to have sung and danced before the Lord, and he wrote many of the Psalms ... so dancing, singing and making music are all approriate ways of worship for most Christians.

We do this alot. But it's not like Gospel singers. A harmonuim is used to sing from the SGGS! Nothing else is allowed. It's very very peaceful. It does not make you want to get up and strut your stuff. it's the opposite. Very calm and uplifting.

http://www.mrsikhnet.com/hello/13282...6-19.21.04.jpg

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you glo, and thanks for starting this thorny subject; I have to confess I feel greatly troubled at times. In many ways I feel that I am committing a spiritual suicide in the way that I seem to go against the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I was brought up a Catholic in the 1950’s and I can remember that we looked on Anglicans as heretics. We could not go to an Anglican Church for a family wedding unless we got permission from the priest and only in very special circumstances. We talked about Anglicans in a derogatory way. I could not reconcile how the church on the one hand preached love your neighbour and love and pray for your enemy, yet openly seemed to act in an opposite way. I left the church as a teenager and did not return until I was fifty.

Now my beliefs continue to bring me into conflict with most people in faith, I have this disturbing belief that we should all be able to pray together and to pray for each other that people of all faiths achieve salvation.

A couple of years a go I went to a Churches together gathering where around 250 people mostly in a leadership capacity from about twenty denominations met together. A Catholic cardinal was there giving a speech on the stage, as soon as he finished I got up and said;

I am a Catholic and I feel the presence of Christ working amongst all these people here. I have a need to share communion with them in a shared service here tomorrow.

To any non- Christians here; sharing communion with non- Catholics is about the most confrontational thing I could say to a Cardinal

The Cardinal said nothing in reply which was the greatest thing he could do as a head of the church. If he said yes or no he would offend many people and it would have far reaching consequences.

The moment I sat down I realised I had forgotten to say the most important thing, and the next pause in the cardinals speech I stood up again. But there was a Baroness on the stage with the cardinal and she said you have already spoken please sit down, I continued to speak and someone handed me a microphone,

I said again that I am a Catholic, and have a need to share communion with everyone here in a shared service here tomorrow. I would ask the Cardinal to forgive me, and I would ask everyone else to forgive me if I have offended you in any way. The cardinal said nothing again.

The following morning there was a Catholic service and an Anglican one, a Catholic priest said that he expects to see me in the Catholic service. I went and shared communion with the Anglicans.

Did I do the right thing in going against the teachings and the leadership of the church? At some point I shall have to answer to God and I do not know for sure, I can only say that I seem driven towards Christian Unity and interfaith friendship. I have this great need inside of me that says people of all faiths are all chosen by God, somehow we need to pray for each other that we may all achieve salvation despite our differences.

I have family and friends who are atheists, and of other faiths to mine, I pray that they may all find salvation. I would have no problems praying with and for people of other faiths, history tells me that they are unlikely to change their beliefs. So I pray that they will find salvation as they are.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

[glo]

I love how much of yourself you pour into your posts, Eric.
Thank you for sharing.
And thank you for daring to be different. I know that God sees your desire for peace and harmony amongst his creation, and I pray that he will look favourably upon you! :)

Peace

[snakelegs]

We do this alot. But it's not like Gospel singers. A harmonuim is used to sing from the SGGS! Nothing else is allowed. It's very very peaceful. It does not make you want to get up and strut your stuff. it's the opposite. Very calm and uplifting.

http://www.mrsikhnet.com/hello/13282...6-19.21.04.jpg

this isn't true. some use sarangi, which i like very much, and, as far as i know, there is always tabla. the link you posted shows someone playing guitar, tho i have never heard that and don't think i'd like it.
but you're right, the music is very calm and grounding, without being at all blah. i listen to it the 2nd most after qawwali.
from what i've read, it is not that unusual for sikhs and muslims (and sometimes hindus as well) to worship together - for example at shrines.

[AvarAllahNoor]

this isn't true. some use sarangi, which i like very much, and, as far as i know, there is always tabla. the link you posted shows someone playing guitar, tho i have never heard that and don't think i'd like it.
but you're right, the music is very calm and grounding, without being at all blah. i listen to it the 2nd most after qawwali.
from what i've read, it is not that unusual for sikhs and muslims (and sometimes hindus as well) to worship together - for example at shrines.

The sarangi is used by the Dhadi - Those wou tell the sories of the Gurus It's never used for Kirtan.

lol You don't like the guitar!

[snakelegs]

i get confused - how is kirtan different from gurbani?
i like the guitar very much, but have never heard it in gurbani, and don't think i'd like it - i like the traditional style - have never checked out the western style.
bhai avtar singh (who died recently) used sarangi - he is from a generation which has been singing gurbani since the time of the gurus and still sings in the style it was done then.
here's a link:
http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/news....257234006F0867
you can also listen to his music on that site.
i don't understand where you get the idea that anything but the harmonium is forbidden - it is not even a native instrument. i like the harmonium (it is also widely used in qawwali), but certainly have heard sarangi - and tabla is always there. the advantage of harmonium is that unlike the hindustani instruments, it does not need to be tuned forever and it is more convenient.

[AvarAllahNoor]

i get confused - how is kirtan different from gurbani?
i like the guitar very much, but have never heard it in gurbani, and don't think i'd like it - i like the traditional style - have never checked out the western style.
bhai avtar singh (who died recently) used sarangi - he is from a generation which has been singing gurbani since the time of the gurus and still sings in the style it was done then.
here's a link:
http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/news....257234006F0867
you can also listen to his music on that site.
i don't understand where you get the idea that anything but the harmonium is forbidden - it is not even a native instrument. i like the harmonium (it is also widely used in qawwali), but certainly have heard sarangi - and tabla is always there. the advantage of harmonium is that unlike the hindustani instruments, it does not need to be tuned forever and it is more convenient.

Did i say forbidden? It's just you only see the tabla, harmonuim, and the chemta (large tabourine thingy but long)

[snakelegs]

Did i say forbidden? It's just you only see the tabla, harmonuim, and the chemta (large tabourine thingy but long)

yep. actually you did. that's why you had me confused, cuz that was big news to me.

[A harmonuim is used to sing from the SGGS! Nothing else is allowed.

anyway, we have no argument about the merits of sikh devotional music - it is indeed very beautiful, spiritual music.