Live8

[minaz]

Hey everyone sign up to the live8list! Show your support in putting an end to poverty!
http://www.live8live.com

[Mr. Baldy]

aslaam alykum,

im sorry, but how is a bunch of people dancing and singing gonna end poverty. this just seems to me another oppurtunity for kafir to do haram with an 'excuse'. ok they might make a few million pounds, but africa is not just in economic crisis it is in a social and political crisis, giving money is not going to make thesse problems go away, its just gonna make kaffir sleep easy. the only system that can get rid of poverty is islam, these kafir just keep on exploiting the poor african people, yeah tony bLiar might cancel third world debt, but he'll just find a new way to exploit the african population.

wa alykum aslaam

[minaz]

Go to the website and read what it says, by the way they aren't asking for money just human support

[S_87]

:sl:

bunch of junk

we shouldnt support their method..if only we as an ummah were united, to show them the REAL way :'(

Allah SWT gave us zakah as a pillar and sadaqah as a means of giving money, and also gaining reward.
we dont need half naked singers *raising awareness*


just my op anyway :D

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[minaz]

Valid opinion, and you're right in that "if only we as an ummah were united" - we are not. Live8 is not just about the music which is just a part of raising the awareness, live8 is part of the Make Poverty History campaign. It's not all about "naked singers" (lol it would be illegal if they were naked!). It's uniting all types of people and groups in its cause including Islamic Relief, who infact were very active yesterday in distributing much material including posters, leaflets etc.
http://www.islamic-relief.com/

[Genius]

aslaam alykum,

im sorry, but how is a bunch of people dancing and singing gonna end poverty. this just seems to me another oppurtunity for kafir to do haram with an 'excuse'. ok they might make a few million pounds, but africa is not just in economic crisis it is in a social and political crisis, giving money is not going to make thesse problems go away, its just gonna make kaffir sleep easy. the only system that can get rid of poverty is islam, these kafir just keep on exploiting the poor african people, yeah tony bLiar might cancel third world debt, but he'll just find a new way to exploit the african population.

wa alykum aslaam

You obviously have a very good understanding of how the world works and should be made President of the Universe.

[Mr. Baldy]

aslaam alykum,

so whats your soloution 'genius', would you rather have the islamic system or bow down to the currnet kuffar system?

wa alykum aslaam

[Genius]

aslaam alykum,

so whats your soloution 'genius', would you rather have the islamic system or bow down to the currnet kuffar system?

wa alykum aslaam

My soloution (sic) is to end poverty, the rest of your question is rather irrelevent and has nothing to do with the topic.

ws

[Mr. Baldy]

aslaam alykum,

it has everything to with the question, please can you explain the way the kuffar want to abolish poverty?

wa alykum aslaam

[minaz]

Mr Baldy how would YOU get rid of poverty? Or should I really ask how you are helping to get rid of it?

[Genius]

aslaam alykum,

it has everything to with the question, please can you explain the way the kuffar want to abolish poverty?

wa alykum aslaam

If i explained you probably wouldn't change your view, so what's the point in wasting both our time.

And the 'kuffar' are not a monolithic bloc, but again thats a concept you'd probably struggle with.

[Mr. Baldy]

aslaam alykum,

in reply to minaz.
i am working for islam.

wa alykum aslaam

[minaz]

these kafir just keep on exploiting the poor african people,

I wouldn't say that's working for Islam mate

[Mr. Baldy]

If i explained you probably wouldn't change your view, so what's the point in wasting both our time.

And the 'kuffar' are not a monolithic bloc, but again thats a concept you'd probably struggle with.

im sorry but all i have to say is that there is the islamic way, and then there is haram.

wa alykum aslaam

[Genius]

aslaam alykum,

i am working for islam.

wa alykum aslaam

And what a job you're doing, you've won a special star



Print it out and stick it on your chest, make sure an adult supervises you.

[Mr. Baldy]

I wouldn't say that's working for Islam mate

what do u meen??

[Mr. Baldy]

im sorry, but whats your soloution?

or dont you have one?

[minaz]

Mr. Baldy, saying things like what you stated

these kafir just keep on exploiting the poor african people,

Is not the way in working for Islam, it gives out the message as Genius pointed out of the mentality of monolithics. Instead of working for islam saying such things are working for the real Kafir.

[S_87]

:sl:
trying to raise awareness of something with baatil is good? or bad?

al-Tirmidhi (2212) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Among this ummah, people will be transformed into monkeys and pigs, swallowed up in the earth, and pelted with stones.” A man among the Muslims said, “O Messenger of Allaah, when will that be?” He said, “When singing-girls and musical instruments become widespread and wine is drunk.” (Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1802).

[Mr. Baldy]

Mr. Baldy, saying things like what you stated
Is not the way in working for Islam, it gives out the message as Genius pointed out of the mentality of monolithics. Instead of working for islam saying such things are working for the real Kafir.

so wait, saying kaffir are bad, is helping there image, how does that work?

[minaz]

That's my point exactly you are saying all the people who support make poverty history are kaffirs. And you say you are working for islam, so when the kaffir hears you say things like this they think all muslims have your mentality.

[Mr. Baldy]

aslaama lykum,

ermmmmmmmm kaffir/kuffar means non-believer, and seeing as these people dont believe, they are kaffir/kuffar. whats ur point?

[Far7an]

Assaalmu 'alaikum

I hope you dont mind be butting in, and giving my view on this :)

By supporting this organisation, I am supporting what they do...

The music, dancing, the entertainment..

All of which I am strongly against.

They want to end poverty? Im sure if all those famous individuals involved in this campaign came together they could afford to end poverty.

[S_87]

:sl:
rightly so far7an..but doing this concert boosts their ratings not end poverty. how many will remember the real purpose?

[Mr. Baldy]

Assaalmu 'alaikum

I hope you dont mind be butting in, and giving my view on this :)

By supporting this organisation, I am supporting what they do...

The music, dancing, the entertainment..

All of which I am strongly against.

They want to end poverty? Im sure if all those famous individuals involved in this campaign came together they could afford to end poverty.

ok, but what is it exactly that they do? islam has its own system for dealing with this problem, it is called zakat, a tax which the caliph collects for the poor and needy, NOT by mascerading naked women and men singing about haram and acting in a haram way. Islam is the only system that can make poverty history.

wa alykum aslaam

[Nakisai]

I have read a lot of your post and they don't help the view of islam in no musilm worlds. they just make Islam seem like a world of hate wahts worng with helping people who is half Islamic anyway? I mean being mad is not going to slove anything we are to paceful people but all I have heard on this Thread is two brothers :argue: and :sorry: I feel like they are our :brother: and :sister: and we should help in the name of allah. do we forget that he sees us no matter what? they are humans and we should care a bout them. put your self in there shoes would you want to eat from the hands of your sisthers or from the hands who will only later try to take that food out your soul ?

so wait, saying kaffir are bad, is helping there image, how does that work?

[Nakisai]

why so much :mad: chill out

ok, but what is it exactly that they do? islam has its own system for dealing with this problem, it is called zakat, a tax which the caliph collects for the poor and needy, NOT by mascerading naked women and men singing about haram and acting in a haram way. Islam is the only system that can make poverty history.

wa alykum aslaam

[Far7an]

Assalamu 'alaikum

ok, but what is it exactly that they do? islam has its own system for dealing with this problem, it is called zakat, a tax which the caliph collects for the poor and needy, NOT by mascerading naked women and men singing about haram and acting in a haram way. Islam is the only system that can make poverty history.

wa alykum aslaam

akhee, I strongly suggest you study more before you make these points..

Did you know we can donate to kuffar in some circumstances? I am not reffering to this.

But I strongly urge everyone against making points without knowledge.

We talk about the ummah? one of the main problems is people talking without knowledge

[minaz]

lol i think the problem here is that one may assume that it's all about the music etc. Sorry if i aint made it clear between the difference of make poverty history and the concert in Hyde park yesterday. Live8 was the ploy to get those who aren't as politicaly aware than others, therefore live8 is a branch of the make poverty history campaign. The website I posted earlier takes you to the make poverty histroy site, so to end further confrontations here is the site to sign up to http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/

[Mr. Baldy]

aslaam alykum,

does islam permit us to enjoin kaffir in haram actions?

wa alykum aslaam

[minaz]

look bro, no one is saying go to the concert (which was yesterday), we (well ok I) am saying is that i've signed up to the make poverty history campaign and if anyone else wants to then good, if you are narrow minded then don't.
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/

[Nakisai]

and a agin WHY leave our :brother: and :sister: inthe hands ? do you think that they would get a fair teatment ????? if we don't help :wilted_ro

Assaalmu 'alaikum

I hope you dont mind be butting in, and giving my view on this :)

By supporting this organisation, I am supporting what they do...

The music, dancing, the entertainment..

All of which I am strongly against.

They want to end poverty? Im sure if all those famous individuals involved in this campaign came together they could afford to end poverty.

[Mr. Baldy]

well see how far this make poverty history campaign goes, and well see if anything changes in the next 10 years, do you even know why africa is so poor?

let me give u a lil history lesson. at the start africa was a wealthy country with an abundance of resources, gold, diamonds, tobacco e.t.c, the western goverments (yes the same goverments that claim they want to help now) went and raped africa taking black slaves who they sed were inferior species. they stlole resources from africa, crippling its economy. later when slavery was abolished racism still lurked, and the emergence of groups such as KKK.

now, in the 70's the IMF loaned money to the african nations, pormising low interest rates and long period of time to pay back. a decade later, the IMF shot up interst rates which then crippled the africans even more, and they wanted the money quickly.

now these governments claim they want to help the african people. let me ask you this would you give the nazis money because they promised they would help the jews?

wa alykum aslaam

[minaz]

let me ask you this would you give the nazis money because they promised they would help the jews?

That's uncalled for

[Mr. Baldy]

its the same thing, apart from compared to the west the nazis seem fair

[minaz]

and i thought you were the one giving us a "history lesson"

[Mr. Baldy]

oh believe me i know my history

[minaz]

Yeh and I saw a dinosaur today

[Mr. Baldy]

ive only studied it for 5 yers at a higher level, at skool and privately, i think i know.

[Nakisai]

I live in the west and I care about every one and my family who happens to be non musilms do too the help islamic and non islamic so it no the same. :thumbs_do :mad:

its the same thing, apart from compared to the west the nazis seem fair

[junna1]

:sl:

Brothers please don't argue no more.:( It's not getting anyone anywhere. I think that who ever wants to sign up can sign up and who ever doesn't want to then don't. Sorry if I sound rude, don't mean to be. I'm just saying let's remember Allah and calm down a little. :D

:w:

[Muezzin]

well see how far this make poverty history campaign goes, and well see if anything changes in the next 10 years, do you even know why africa is so poor?

let me give u a lil history lesson. at the start africa was a wealthy country with an abundance of resources, gold, diamonds, tobacco e.t.c, the western goverments (yes the same goverments that claim they want to help now) went and raped africa taking black slaves who they sed were inferior species. they stlole resources from africa, crippling its economy. later when slavery was abolished racism still lurked, and the emergence of groups such as KKK.

Don't play the race card that easily friend. It has a habit of blowing up in your face. Look, slavery was abhorrent and inhuman, but the West were not the only ones to use it. The Arab states used it earlier (Bilal r.a. being a famous slave). So your logic of calling the West evil for advocating slavery in the past backfires.

now, in the 70's the IMF loaned money to the african nations, pormising low interest rates and long period of time to pay back. a decade later, the IMF shot up interst rates which then crippled the africans even more, and they wanted the money quickly.

And this affects the giving of charity by individuals, how exactly? By your logic, if one government oppresses another country, then citizens of the first country are forbidden to help the oppressed people. That's crazy-talk!

now these governments claim they want to help the african people. let me ask you this would you give the nazis money because they promised they would help the jews?

Eh?

[Mr. Baldy]

yeah but did u find the arabs being raist even after they converted to islam?

democracy my freind, the government is a reflection of the people

an analogy, the same principle can be applied

[Nakisai]

Than you should know that. it was closed minded poeple who trun the jews away and send them back to their death. and you should know that it has been more musilms in the part of th world dieing every day. and the usa is the only one who trys to help no matter what their reason was


{QUOTE=Mr. Baldy]ive only studied it for 5 yers at a higher level, at skool and privately, i think i know.[/QUOTE]

[Muezzin]

yeah but did u find the arabs being raist even after they converted to islam?

democracy my freind, the government is a reflection of the people

And people right now want to give charity and aid. What's wrong with that?

[Mr. Baldy]

Than you should know that. it was closed minded poeple who trun the jews away and send them back to their death. and you should know that it has been more musilms in the part of th world dieing every day. and the usa is the only one who trys to help no matter what their reason was


{QUOTE=Mr. Baldy]ive only studied it for 5 yers at a higher level, at skool and privately, i think i know.

[/QUOTE]

are u trying to tell me that the USA wants to help muslims????????????????????

right ok.

giving charity and aid is fine, if given in a halal way and with halal intentions.

[Muezzin]

are u trying to tell me that the USA wants to help muslims????????????????????

right ok.

giving charity and aid is fine, if given in a halal way and with halal intentions.

Please define 'halal way' and 'halal intentions' to clarify, so that we're all on the same page.

[Nakisai]

you can judge all by one if that was case that you are what they call you
and yes the USA is trying to help some musilms here. you act as if you are a person who see things in your way and only in your way. there are a lot of goverment is working with musilm that need houing and clothing (islamica) jobs and more :applaud:



are u trying to tell me that the USA wants to help muslims????????????????????

right ok.

giving charity and aid is fine, if given in a halal way and with halal intentions.[/QUOTE]

[Abubakar]

:sl: Brothers and Sisters

It would be nice and possibly even correct to act a little less rudely towards each other.

The supposed aim of '8' is to raise consciousness of the plight of the poor in Africa.

This in itself is a good thing, educating people especially about this sort of subject is very important.

If anyone seriously thinks a bunch of multi-millionaires singing and dancing to thousands of intoxicated people is going to do that then you are very optamistic.

We know the answers, cancel all the debt, tear up all the restrictive trade practices and stop chanelling aid through corupt systems.

The last time we had a great, 'we are going to cancell billions of dollars of third world debt' announcement, everyone was happy, we thought at last these ***** have finally started to do something propperly. The result 3 years later less than 1% of the announced debt has been cancelled.

I suggest we come back to this in 6 months and see how many ageing rock stars have had hit albums on the back of this.

Then in 1 year to see if there has actually been any difference for the African poor.

:w:

[Mr. Baldy]

halal way- NOT making a show and dance about it, you should be modest and give as much as you can, you should give so that the right hand does not know what the left hand has given and vice versa.

halal intentions- give for allahs pleasure and mercy, not becaause of peer presure or coz its the cool thing to do.

[Muezzin]

:sl: Brothers and Sisters

It would be nice and possibly even correct to act a little less rudely towards each other.

The supposed aim of '8' is to raise consciousness of the plight of the poor in Africa.

This in itself is a good thing, educating people especially about this sort of subject is very important.

If anyone seriously thinks a bunch of multi-millionaires singing and dancing to thousands of intoxicated people is going to do that then you are very optamistic.

We know the answers, cancel all the debt, tear up all the restrictive trade practices and stop chanelling aid through corupt systems.

The last time we had a great, 'we are going to cancell billions of dollars of third world debt' announcement, everyone was happy, we thought at last these ***** have finally started to do something propperly. The result 3 years later less than 1% of the announced debt has been cancelled.

I suggest we come back to this in 6 months and see how many ageing rock stars have had hit albums on the back of this.

Then in 1 year to see if there has actually been any difference for the African poor.

:w:

Good points, brother.

halal way- NOT making a show and dance about it, you should be modest and give as much as you can, you should give so that the right hand does not know what the left hand has given and vice versa.

Okay. But the Western people are notoriously tight (even cheaper than a bunch of Asians in Asda on a Saturday :p), so it's sort of necessary evil to give them incentive. I don't agree with making a big song and dance out of it either, and I don't think Muslims should make a big deal out of it, but this is how the West raise awareness. This is just an observation.

halal intentions- give for allahs pleasure and mercy, not becaause of peer presure or coz its the cool thing to do.

Very true.

[Mr. Baldy]

right, and the way they raise awarness is haram, and anyway, it is haram to give, coz they take fees for handelling and stuff, and islam says 100% of ur zakat/charity must go to the cause.

i must go now, but if u want to discuss this or anything else, my MSN is daddi_jan@hotmail.com (long time ago)

wa alykum aslaam

[Muezzin]

right, and the way they raise awarness is haram, and anyway, it is haram to give, coz they take fees for handelling and stuff, and islam says 100% of ur zakat/charity must go to the cause.

Of course. What I'm saying is, if (Western) people choose to give charity this way, then can we please let them without pouncing on them? Islam promotes peaceful coexistence, and say what you like about the West's downfalls, Muslims are for the most part allowed to live in peace in the West. I'm not forcing people to donate to this charity if they feel it's dodgy - but if people (not necessarily Muslims) chose to donate, let them. Seriously, the typical Joe West is too miserly otherwise.

[Nakisai]

http://www.geocities.com/zahidtg2/Africa/

but the #'s will be a lil unreal now do you feel the same about it ??
this is my last post

[Bittersteel]

.These people have atleast instead of sitting in their chairs or sleeping in their beds are trying to raise money and awareness for people living in poverty.It is moronic to make criticsm of their efforts.its not corruption.its not pornography ,etc.

[aamirsaab]

FINALLY, someone else who understands!
Ok, it is not exactly the most halaal thing to do, but at least they ARE doing something to end poverty! Come on guys (and gals) you gotta give them some respect - at least they are tryin'.

[Bittersteel]

yeah and they trying to save the lives of innocent people.

[Abdul Fattah]

I tend to disagrea aamirsaab, how will this end poverty, or how will this even create awareness? People are already aware but simply ignore. Giving them a free concert might draw lot's of people but they just take the "awareness" part as the price then. To think of it is as a tool to give a sign to the goverments is also quite idealistic. I really doubt any western politician to take a whole lot of people showing up at a free concert as a cerious sign there's something wrong!

[Nakisai]

I tend to disagrea aamirsaab, how will this end poverty, or how will this even create awareness? People are already aware but simply ignore. Giving them a free concert might draw lot's of people but they just take the "awareness" part as the price then. To think of it is as a tool to give a sign to the goverments is also quite idealistic. I really doubt any western politician to take a whole lot of people showing up at a free concert as a cerious sign there's something wrong!

you say that "people are already aware but simply ignore".

Is that what you are doing?
would you help? would you raise money to help? would you holds that little girl hand who has aids and mother was taking by a man who had nothing better to do? would take your back becasue that not Islamic ? :wilted_ro

[Halima]

:sl:


Just because some of you people might be against the "concert" which includes dancing/singing it wouldn't hurt to sign up for it. Nobody is forcing anyone to go to the concert. Just by sighning up is a big difference.



:w:

[aamirsaab]

I tend to disagrea aamirsaab, how will this end poverty, or how will this even create awareness? People are already aware but simply ignore. Giving them a free concert might draw lot's of people but they just take the "awareness" part as the price then. To think of it is as a tool to give a sign to the goverments is also quite idealistic. I really doubt any western politician to take a whole lot of people showing up at a free concert as a cerious sign there's something wrong!

You have a good point steve. However, you must realise that it is already difficult for many westerners to get off their lazy butt's and give charity. This concert gets them off their butts. so it is a start. It won't end poverty over night - but what can?

But at least it keeps the people aware and at least something is being done. This is why I support it - at least they are trying. The concert is used in conjunction with the poverty ending scheme. I do understand your points steve, but atleast try and be supportive for this event.

[imaad_udeen]

You obviously have a very good understanding of how the world works and should be made President of the Universe.

;D

:)

[imaad_udeen]

are u trying to tell me that the USA wants to help muslims????????????????????

Which country do you think has donated the most money to tsunami relief?

Which country do you think pours the most money into Africa to help fight AIDs there?

[Muezzin]

I tend to disagrea aamirsaab, how will this end poverty, or how will this even create awareness? People are already aware but simply ignore. Giving them a free concert might draw lot's of people but they just take the "awareness" part as the price then. To think of it is as a tool to give a sign to the goverments is also quite idealistic. I really doubt any western politician to take a whole lot of people showing up at a free concert as a cerious sign there's something wrong!

The concert was not 'free' strictly speaking. People had to pay for the tickets, and the proceeds went to charity. The performers were not paid, so it's free in that sense.

And Western Politicians take nothing seriously. When so many people marched through London against the war in Iraq, it had absolutely no effect whatsoever. At least giving charity is something the politicians can have no sway over - if people want to give it, they can.

[minaz]

Thanks to all of you who have signed up on the Make Poverty History website - you are making a difference no matter what some of these conservative ppl may think :)

[Abubakar]

Thanks to all of you who have signed up on the Make Poverty History website - you are making a difference no matter what some of these conservative ppl may think :)

:sl: Sister

What difference are they making?

'Conservative', well there is a first time I've been called that!

Peace

[Abubakar]

Which country do you think has donated the most money to tsunami relief?

Which country do you think pours the most money into Africa to help fight AIDs there?

:sl: Brother

Which western country gives the lowest percentage of gdp in foreign aid?

Which western country has the highest percentage of aid tied into trade contracts?

Peace

[S_87]

:sl: Sister

What difference are they making?



Peace

:sl:

good question

[Muezzin]

:sl: Sister

What difference are they making?

'Conservative', well there is a first time I've been called that!

Peace

Minaz is a brother ;)

[Abubakar]

Minaz is a brother ;)

:sl: Brother

Sorry Brother Minaz, it was not intentional.

:-[ :-[ :-[

Peace

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
I may have missed it (I didn't read the whole thread), but could someone tell me how this organization intends to eliminate poverty?

:w:

[Muezzin]

:sl:
I may have missed it (I didn't read the whole thread), but could someone tell me how this organization intends to eliminate poverty?

:w:

By chucking money at it until it disappears of course ;)

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
How do they plan on getting the money?

[Uthman]

:sl:

Make Poverty History band that you put on your wrist thingies! Is that what we're on about?

:w: