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Al_Imaan
01-01-2007, 05:57 AM
:sl:
I was thinking that many people are happy that the Taliban were driven out of Afghanistan while many other think the Taliban can bring peace there.
I'm Afghan-American and from my point of view, I'm happy that the Taliban are no longer there. The afghans went through enough torture.

What does everyone here think?
:w:
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Skillganon
01-01-2007, 07:12 AM
Well in some sense they where better than rubbing shoulders with america.

Study Islam first.
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habiibti
01-01-2007, 07:32 AM
Assalamu aleikum

i was hoping to see an oh yeah option on da poll.I dont see why anyone muslim would oppose to be ruled by Allahs sharia.Yeah maybe da taliban werent perfect but look at afghanistan now?
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habiibti
01-01-2007, 08:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yaqub Sulayman
And how were the Taliban better?? Cutting hands when people steal??
yes exactly.

In case u didnt know,da quran says da thieves hands to be cut so they were following da sharia of Allah by cutting da thieves hands.
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Yaqub Sulayman
01-01-2007, 08:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by habiibti
yes exactly.

In case u didnt know,da quran says da thieves hands to be cut so they were following da sharia of Allah by cutting da thieves hands.
Salaam,

Sister you are mistaken. Brother Ansar explains this issue excellently:

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al'-Adl
A couple of points to note on the punishment of amputation for theft:
a-the punishment will not be applied if there is any doubt as to the guilt of the suspect
b-the punishment will not be applied if the value of the stolen goods is below something of great value -> determined by 'urf (customs of society)
c-the punishment will not be applied if the thief stole out of need/poverty
d-the punishment will not be applied if the goods weren't in proper storage (al-hirz) -> also determined by 'urf (customs of society)
e-the punishment will not be applied if the thief returns the goods and seeks forgiveness of the victim of the theft, before the case enters the judicial system
f-the punishment will not be applied if the culprit is not a sane adult and the crime was not committed under duress
g-the punishment will not be applied if the goods were not legally owned
h-the punishment will not be applied if it is a child stealing from parents or parents stealing from children or one spuse from another according to the opinion of all jurists except Imaam Malik.
i-the punishment will not be applied if the person is permitted to enter the place from where he stole because in such a case there is no proper custody (al-hirz)
j-according to Imaam Abu Hanifa the punishment is not applied to the non-muslim living in the muslim state, however Imaam Shafi', Imaam Maalik and Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal have said that it is.

If the theft passes these restrictions, then it recieves the hadd punishment of hand amputation. Any theft that does not meet these restrictions recieves ta'azir (discretionary punishment). In such cases the Islamic society would most likely follow case/common law by rule of precedent where like cases are treated alike.

Coming to the scenario where amputation is applied in theft, it is interesting to note the effect this has on society. I'd like to quote some parts of a discussion at a conference of the Saudi scholars:
At this point Dr. Dawalbi made a comment:
"I have been in this country for seven years", he said, "and I never saw of heard of, any amputation of the hand for stealing. This is because the crime is extremely rare. So, all that remains of that punishment is its harshness, which has made it possible for those who are tempted to steal, to keep their hands whole. Formerly, when these regions were ruled by the french-inspired Penal Code, under the Ottoman Empire, pilgrims travelling between the two Holy Cities - Mecca and Medina, could not feel secure for their purse or their life, unless they had a strong escort.
But when this country became the Saudi Kingdom, the Qur'anic Law was enforced, crime immediately disappeared. A traveller, then, could journey, not only between the Holy Cities, but even from Al-Dahran on the Gulf to Jeddah on the Red Sea, and traverse a distance of more than one thousand and five hundred kilometres across the desert all alone in his private car, without harbouring any fear or worry about his life or property, be it worth millions of dollars, and he be a complete foreigner."
The Saudi Delegation resumed:
"In this manner, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, where Islamic law is enforced, state money is transferred from one town to another, from one bank to another, in an ordinary car, without any escort or protection, but the car driver. Tell me, Gentlemen: in any of your Western States, would you be ready to transfer money from one bank to another, in any of your capitals without the protection of a strong police force and the necessary number of armoured cars?
...Only here, Gentlemen, in this country where Islamic Law is enforced, the American Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. William Rogers, during his visit last year, could, he and his suit, dispense with the armoured cars, which had been carried in by special planes, and which accompanied them in their tour of more than ten countries. Only here, Gentlemen, did the Government of the Kingdom not allow its visitors to go around in these cars. Eventually, Mr. Rogers spontaneously declined the guard of honour usually placed by the Government at the disposal of their foreign guests; he walked through the soulks by himself, and confessed that, in this Kingdom, and in this Kingdom alone, one had such a feeling of security that one had no more need of a gurad.
...Stealing is almost unknown in our Kingdom, when people, in the great Capitals of Western countries under secular regimes, have no more security for their luves of their possessions.
(Doi, Shari'ah: The Islamic Law, Ta Ha Publishers 1984, pp. 260-261)
Personally, I know many people who have lived for ten or twenty years in Saudi Arabia and they have testified that they have never come across such a case of amputation for theft. When you implement such a balanced code, theft becomes un heard of.

Callum, I want you to look at this UN survey of burglaries between 1998-2000. Tell me who is at the bottom of the list? Who is at the top?

1. United States 2,099,700 burglaries (1999)
2. United Kingdom 836,027 burglaries (2000)
.
.
.
54. Saudi Arabia 11 (2000)!!!!

Which law is more successful?


These are concrete statistics here, Callum. There is no doubt when the UN conducts a survey and the country implementing Islamic law has the fewest burglaries, it demonstrates which is the most successful law is this regard.
This is a good example of how the Taliban is conducting Shariah erroneously.
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Malaikah
01-01-2007, 09:10 AM
:sl:

^Ansar is basically saying that yes, the thief has his hand cut off. :D Do you still insist otherwise? I do not see how that supports your point.
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Skillganon
01-01-2007, 07:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yaqub Sulayman
Studying Islam first??

Brother the Taliban were un-Islamic people. They beat their wives and punished people for carrying balloons. They were extreme and intolerant. They are hypocrites who made haraam money. The Americans helped the Afghans. Girls can finally go to school now. Women are treated more fairly.
That's what you read mostly. For example an idiots does something wrong and it becomes the taliban. You have to ask yourself is it better to choose between the believers than the unbelievers. For sure the america (western allies) by far as their intent shows they are open enemy to Islam. They did not do it for the sake of Allah or Islam or for the love of muslim or their desire to implement Islam.

Is it better to chose and help the believers who for the sake of Alah are trying to rule and live by Islam (eventhough they are making mistakes on the way) than to take the dis-believers as allies against them, to kill them.
You are worried about school's and I don't know exactly the specification or reason behind it, but as far as I am concerned afghan is piece of rubbles in the first place. If you can't bring law and order(i.e. Islam) in the first place than what is the point of cryin over schools. Far as I am aware their is no real school infracstructure in the first place to send people to school let alone women.

That is why I said it is better, and please refrain from using the same rethoric of the western media, oirientalist that use against Islam.

Go back to studying Islam read the Quran first, read the seerah of our prophets & shahabah and you will get a better Idea.
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Keltoi
01-01-2007, 07:02 PM
I notice that most people who seem to think the Taliban were so good for Afghanistan live in the West and have never lived under a medieval fundamentalist regime such as the Taliban. I based my vote on what the people of Afghanistan believe, and they overwhelmingly oppose any return to a Taliban like state of affairs. Of course the situation isn't perfect, and many Afghans have voiced their concerns that Afghanistan is more dangerous for people than it was in the past, but of course it is the Taliban who have made it so.
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SATalha
01-01-2007, 07:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
That's what you read mostly. For example an idiots does something wrong and it becomes the taliban. You have to ask yourself is it better to choose between the believers that the unbelievers. For sure the america (western allies) by far as their intent shows they are open enemy to Islam. They did not do it for the sake of Allah or Islam or for the love of muslim or their desire to implement Islam.

Go back to studying Islam read the Quran first, read the seerah of our prophets & shahabah and you will get a better Idea.
Tru bro. These are the days of Jahilliya. Untrust worthy people will be trusted and trust worthy people will be untrusted. Thats what the Prophet said. Listen dont believe everything in the media. Yes they might of not been perfect but at least they where trying to Implement Allahs law. And who can debate against the Law of God! You need to be objective and see the long term benefits of Shariah. If implemented with correctly thant Shariah works. But if you do not have the structure (e.g saudi) than shariah will not work. The Taliban atleast tried to implement it. That is what the West are scared of, our past glory is all due to Allahs Law and the Sunnah. It will return!
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Fishman
01-01-2007, 07:17 PM
:sl:
Do I think the Taliban are the best choice for Afganistan? No. Do I think that they are better than the current government? I don't know.
:w:
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Keltoi
01-01-2007, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Tru bro. These are the days of Jahilliya. Untrust worthy people will be trusted and trust worthy people will be untrusted. Thats what the Prophet said. Listen dont believe everything in the media. Yes they might of not been perfect but at least they where trying to Implement Allahs law. And who can debate against the Law of God! You need to be objective and see the long term benefits of Shariah. If implemented with correctly thant Shariah works. But if you do not have the structure (e.g saudi) than shariah will not work. The Taliban atleast tried to implement it. That is what the West are scared of, our past glory is all due to Allahs Law and the Sunnah. It will return!
The "West" is scared of a medieval ideology based on the beating of women and the destruction of historical treasures? Perhaps, but probably not for the reasons you would like to believe.
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SATalha
01-01-2007, 07:21 PM
The Historical tresures what benefits will they bring you. They are jsut idol worshipping. Pointless. Research the Quran and realise the buety of Gods words.
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Trumble
01-01-2007, 07:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
The Historical tresures what benefits will they bring you. They are jsut idol worshipping. Pointless. Research the Quran and realise the buety of Gods words.
It is destruction of something that can never be replaced for no reason that is 'pointless'.

It is only 'idol worshipping' if people worship them, and even then it should be their choice. It was just mindless destruction by the Taliban.. and anyone capable of that isn't capable of appreciating the beauty of anything.
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Skillganon
01-01-2007, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
It is destruction of something that can never be replaced for no reason that is 'pointless'.

It is only 'idol worshipping' if people worship them, and even then it should be their choice. It was just mindless destruction by the Taliban.. and anyone capable of that isn't capable of appreciating the beauty of anything.
Not really. People after a time take it as a place of worship and slowly affiliate it with worship.
Similar stuff happened after our prophet times, and their was way's the companions of the prophet dealt with it.
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SilentObserver
01-01-2007, 08:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
The Historical tresures what benefits will they bring you. They are jsut idol worshipping. Pointless. Research the Quran and realise the buety of Gods words.
The real point is that the actions of destruction were not islamic actions. They were the opposite of islamic, if islam is what I've been told it is. Islam teaches muslims to respect other religions, does it not?
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Skillganon
01-01-2007, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
The real point is that the actions of destruction were not islamic actions. They were the opposite of islamic, if islam is what I've been told it is. Islam teaches muslims to respect other religions, does it not?
If muslims are following shirk than by Islam it is permissable to destroy this objects of shirk, Idols e.t.c. Respect and leniency goes so far.
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chacha_jalebi
01-01-2007, 08:57 PM
salaam

well if we look @ the present status of afghanistan, then i would say its better to have the taliban in power, mullah omars views were far different from the ones the taliban imposed, he promoted segragated schools for girls and boys, and he said no one should be outside with a non mahram, but sum followers of the taliban, jus didnt let women leave the house, and i think this was a propa misinterpretation of what mullah omar really wanted!

so for the present situation of, someone doing a suicide bomb and killin innocents, i think the taliban would have be better for afghanistan currently!

the same goes for iraq, its involved in sectarian killings and all sorts of crap, atleast saddam had some sort of control over the country!!!!:D
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SilentObserver
01-01-2007, 10:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
If muslims are following shirk than by Islam it is permissable to destroy this objects of shirk, Idols e.t.c. Respect and leniency goes so far.
How many muslims do you think would worship a statue? My estimation is zero. Muslims don't worship buddist statues, it's not even a concern. I don't think shirk was a problem. Especially with the Taliban as leaders, nobody would be that stupid. The truth is, the taliban were simply being intolerant of the existance of the statues of a different religion.
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Hijrah
01-01-2007, 10:06 PM
Taalibaan indeed indulges in soofiyah and numerous other innovations, I think this is a wonderful post on another forum made about Taalibaan and many other groups some love today:

as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
i need to add this: our objection to al-qa`idah of ibn laden, whether it exists in iraq, algeria, palestine, lebanon or afghanistan, and the other similar groups like taliban and hamas, is not merely because of their methods, which indeed have corrupted the proper meaning of jihad and its goals and methods, but also because of their methodology and the way they understand iman and kufr, tauheed and shirk, and the fact that they resurrected the methodology of the khawarij and, in the case of taliban, sufism and, in the case of hamas, preferring political reform to reforming the creed and practices of muslims by claiming that there is no time to waste.....in the end, they did not establish the khilafah, or reform politics, or free muslim lands, or reform the creed and practices of muslims, but instead wasted tens of years trying to earn victory from allah without establishing the true islam in their hearts and life as the prophet of allah and his companions did......as a consequence, muslims now live in a far worse situation than they were even ten years ago: civil wars, backward economies, division, bidah, lack of safety, sects, nationalistic ideas, etc., which really brings grief to muslims and trouble to their lands.....in comparison, the prophet's blessed jihad and his companions' continuation of it led to the conquering of many lands, including palestine, iraq and afghanisatn: kabul was conqeured by an army that included some of the sahaba, and do not forget who conquered india and who delivered al-quds from the hands of the european christians, it is the same salaf that people today ridicule: i just received an email from a moron who takes osama abdallah as his teacher, attacking the salaf by calling them a sect, so i responded by saying that my sect is the sahab, what is your sect?.....
the salaf: they open and we close, they conquer and we surrender and lose, they succeed and we fail, they establish the religion and we divide in it, they earn allah's forgivness and we do not know how and where we will end if we continue defying them and contradicting the sunnah, we do not practice islam or its faith as they did but we wish to receive glory and might even more than that they received.....al-albani's advice is a golden advice, if muslims but listen and obey, that the young men and women of today should shun all these sects and concentrate on building their islamic faith and practicing it the way the salaf did that one day soon they may see al-quds the same way salah ad-deen saw it after around 200 years of bloody crusader presence......
as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
jalal abualrub
I read a fatwa somewhere by Shaykh Saalih Al-Uthaymeen condemning them as well.
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FBI
01-01-2007, 10:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
How many muslims do you think would worship a statue? My estimation is zero. Muslims don't worship buddist statues, it's not even a concern. I don't think shirk was a problem. Especially with the Taliban as leaders, nobody would be that stupid. The truth is, the taliban were simply being intolerant of the existance of the statues of a different religion.
:sl:

I went to Mekkah recently and I can tell u some of the stuff some people were doing was shirk, kissing the kaba , making dua to the prophet ect, insulting the Sahaba ect? Some people are lost religion wise so I can see the wisdom in this.
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Skillganon
01-01-2007, 10:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
How many muslims do you think would worship a statue? My estimation is zero. Muslims don't worship buddist statues, it's not even a concern. I don't think shirk was a problem. Especially with the Taliban as leaders, nobody would be that stupid. The truth is, the taliban was simply being intolerant of the existance of the statues of a different religion.
In Islam their is no room for statue's and monuments of those kind. These things leads to shirk, and many people fall into it by things of allurement.

I really do not care about the statue's (something that is done and dusted).

Anyway Abraham and muhammad (pbut) destroyed statues. Will you call them intolerant aswell?
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SilentObserver
01-01-2007, 10:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
In Islam their is no room for statue's and monuments of those kind. These things leads to shirk, and many people fall into it by things of allurement.

I really do not care about the statue's (something that is done and dusted).

Anyway Abraham and muhammad (pbut) destroyed statues. Will you call them intolerant aswell?
Statues that were actively being worshipped. That is a different situation.
In Islam their is no room for statue's and monuments of those kind.
Islam claims to be tolerant. The prophet would not have expected the statues to be destroyed just to be intolerant. The actions of the taliban were intolerant, therefore, unislamic.
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Skillganon
01-01-2007, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Statues that were actively being worshipped. That is a different situation.
1. Worship mean's quite different in Islam. You can worship something without calling it a God.

Secondly if they are not being worshipped than one should not cry about destroying a statue where people thought it will lead to shirk.
It was only a bad move by them.
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SilentObserver
01-01-2007, 10:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
It was only a bad move by them.
Isn't that what is being said? A bad move because it is intolerant. Because it is unislamic.
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FBI
01-01-2007, 10:28 PM
:sl:

The prophet would not have expected the statues to be destroyed just to be intolerant. The actions of the taliban were intolerant, therefore, unislamic.
Now why do I get the feeling u just made that up?
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SilentObserver
01-01-2007, 10:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FBI
:sl:

Now why do I get the feeling u just made that up?
Made what up?
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Trumble
01-01-2007, 10:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Islam teaches muslims to respect other religions, does it not?
I think that may well be limited to monotheistic ones rather than those that 'deny God', although as can be seen from these forums clearly different muslims have different attitudes. Certainly this sort of contempt for both the religion, and indeed the simple importance of the statues in historical and indeed aethetic terms seems unique to the Taliban.


format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Respect and leniency goes so far.
Obviously, in this case, nowhere near enough.

Again, I'm amazed that people seem to have so little faith in Islam they think the continued existence of such things lead to 'shirk' and 'allurement'. Is Islam really so feeble in Afghanistan this is a genuine excuse for such vandalism?
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FBI
01-01-2007, 10:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Made what up?
what I qouted u one, provide a refrence please.
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Skillganon
01-01-2007, 10:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hijrah
Taalibaan indeed indulges in soofiyah and numerous other innovations, I think this is a wonderful post on another forum made about Taalibaan and many other groups some love today:

I read a fatwa somewhere by Shaykh Saalih Al-Uthaymeen condemning them as well.
Thank's for your post bro, I do think that their maybe problem in general amongst the talibans concerning Islam. However I do not think as the article points out to take the crusaders as Lords and Protectors and start killing them (for the strategic purpose) is the advice Islam give's. It would of been somewhat better to help the Taliban towards Islam, help them enjoin good and forbid them from wrong, dialogue and more involvement from the one's on the salaf.
Obviousely I do not expect anywhere for any countries to bring about correct and perfect islamic legislation in a day without making mistake or starting in the wrong methodology. One has to start from somewhere and be more progressive in bringing about it. As far as I am concerned some of the west backed goverment in afghanistan has bartered gone in the other direction.

Ask them have they any interest in applying Islamic Law on the land, and stop serving their allies interest.
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SilentObserver
01-01-2007, 10:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
I think that may well be limited to monotheistic ones rather than those that 'deny God', although as can be seen from these forums clearly different muslims have different attitudes. Certainly this sort of contempt for both the religion, and indeed the simple importance of the statues in historical and indeed aethetic terms seems unique to the Taliban.
While I agree with the first part of your post, I disagree with the part in bold. I think that the contempt that you mention is more common than that, and is evident right here.
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AvarAllahNoor
01-01-2007, 10:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FBI
what I qouted u one, provide a refrence please.
That was his opinion
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SilentObserver
01-01-2007, 10:43 PM
The prophet would not have expected the statues to be destroyed just to be intolerant. The actions of the taliban were intolerant, therefore, unislamic.
format_quote Originally Posted by FBI
what I qouted u one, provide a refrence please.
You want a link to what the prophet would have thought about the buddist statues in Afghanistan? Or that the prophet taught tolerance and peaceful existance with other religions? There are no links to the first one, but there are plenty of threads about peaceful existence right here on this forum by brother Ansar.
Or do you want a link to the fact that the taliban were intolerant? That is common knowledge, and a general opinion. No link required.
If you want a link that intolerance is unislamic, I direct you to again to brother Ansar's threads in 'Basics of Islam' section.
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Al_Imaan
01-02-2007, 01:29 AM
If muslims are following shirk than by Islam it is permissable to destroy this objects of shirk, Idols e.t.c. Respect and leniency goes so far.
Isn't it stated in the Quran in surah Kafirun,
"For you is your religion and for me is my religion."(Surah Kafirun, Ayah 6)
so why interfere in something that doesn't concern you?
ok..ok...let's put the cutting the hands issue aside...is it right in islam to kill a mother in front of her children?..Allah has sworn by the pen in surah Iqra...which shows that knowledge is extremely important in Islam, Was it right for the Taliban to close schools and other ways of learning on the poor afghan people?...is this what you call the Islamic shariah?....I don't think so...Whatever the Taliban did to the afghans, it was all wrong. First, they would hang the afghan men for whatever reason it was, I won't question why. But then they would tie their dead bodies to the back of cars, is that humane?...I don't know from what prospective some of the brothers and sisters here are talking from....

originally: by chacha_jalebi
well if we look @ the present status of afghanistan, then i would say its better to have the taliban in power, mullah omars views were far different from the ones the taliban imposed, he promoted segragated schools for girls and boys, and he said no one should be outside with a non mahram, but sum followers of the taliban, jus didnt let women leave the house, and i think this was a propa misinterpretation of what mullah omar really wanted!
mullah omar was the leader, right? if he wanted all this that you have said, couldn't he accomplish it? u should watch the afghan channel on satellite...the pakistani singers come on the screen with inappropriate scenes, they make music videos and have them broadcasted through the afghan channel....and while this was taking place, the taliban were concerned about bringing the shariah in Afghanistan....couldn't they have taken care of Pakistan, their own homeland, first?...it's like preaching Islam to others and not acting upon it yourself....so what else do you have to say?
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Woodrow
01-02-2007, 02:53 AM
I answered "I don't know". I do not live in Afghanistan and I have never lived under the Taliban. I would not say one way or the other without personal experience.
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Skillganon
01-02-2007, 04:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Isn't it stated in the Quran in surah Kafirun,
"For you is your religion and for me is my religion."(Surah Kafirun, Ayah 6)
so why interfere in something that doesn't concern you?
ok..ok...let's put the cutting the hands issue aside...is it right in islam to kill a mother in front of her children?..Allah has sworn by the pen in surah Iqra...which shows that knowledge is extremely important in Islam, Was it right for the Taliban to close schools and other ways of learning on the poor afghan people?...is this what you call the Islamic shariah?....I don't think so...Whatever the Taliban did to the afghans, it was all wrong. First, they would hang the afghan men for whatever reason it was, I won't question why. But then they would tie their dead bodies to the back of cars, is that humane?...I don't know from what prospective some of the brothers and sisters here are talking from....
Sis, I did mention their was some problem with the afghan, but don't believe everything you hear and see.
Read my previouse posts.
Do you dine with your enemies and serve their interest? That's what they inivetably did?
They did not go to afghan for the interest of Islam. Is killing the believers (even though the where some errors) and taking the open enemy as Lords and protectors Islam?
Taliban did not have full control everywhere or tabs on exactly who did what?

Let's see if the aghanistani goverment will implement Islam or have any desire towards meeting that end, than we see how truthfull they are to their claim.

EDIT:

Let's put the chocie like this.
Are the American the right choice for afghanistan?
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Warthog
01-02-2007, 07:35 AM
The taliban were brutal bullies, terrorizing people into doing exactly as the wished. They oppressed the population, and prevented females from getting an education. They should be made to rule themselves in a prison block.
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SATalha
01-02-2007, 12:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Sis, I did mention their was some problem with the afghan, but don't believe everything you hear and see.
Thats what I am trying to tell people. The Taliban might be alot of things, but somethings are just blown out of porportion. The Taliban did not get things right the first time round. If they did things like deny women education than that is wrong. Wake up to the reality!
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Al_Imaan
01-02-2007, 04:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Sis, I did mention their was some problem with the afghan, but don't believe everything you hear and see.
Read my previouse posts.
Do you dine with your enemies and serve their interest? That's what they inivetably did?
They did not go to afghan for the interest of Islam. Is killing the believers (even though the where some errors) and taking the open enemy as Lords and protectors Islam?
Taliban did not have full control everywhere or tabs on exactly who did what?

Let's see if the aghanistani goverment will implement Islam or have any desire towards meeting that end, than we see how truthfull they are to their claim.

EDIT:

Let's put the chocie like this.
Are the American the right choice for afghanistan?
brother, you need to make out your points clearly. I started this thread cuz of all the things that my family has experienced. I didn't make out all this from the back of my head. I'm not saying that the Americans are the right choice for Afghanistan. I don't think neither Taliban nor America are right for Afghanistan. They should leave the poor country alone to itself. The Taliban were there to capture the land, but they fooled people by saying that Afghans weren't following the shariah and that they were intending to straighten things out. It is none of their business. LEAVE THE COUNTRY ALONE. Is that so hard? And once again, I'm very happy that Afghanistan is free from the Taliban's torture. I just hope that there will be a day where America can leave them alone to.

And one more thing bro, have u seen or witnessed anything?, cuz if you did then it will let us know that your talking from experience. If you have not then why bother arguing about it.

Originally Posted by Skillganon
Sis, I did mention their was some problem with the afghan, but don't believe everything you hear and see.
For your info, I don't believe everything I hear or see. Your backing up the same people who are working against in Islam. You should have opened your eyes back then when the Taliban were in control.
Reply

...
01-02-2007, 04:59 PM
You never really know what they are like unless like brother woodrow said you live under their rule. As for what the meda portrays do you really believe it :mmokay:
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-02-2007, 05:36 PM
I don't think anyone here understands that I am talking from the experience that my family has been through. They have seen and witnessed everything. Is that so hard to understand?
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
01-02-2007, 06:07 PM
I saw a clip on youtube of a man beating an afghani woman with a rod, she was dressed in the blue burkha. I'm not easily shocked but seeing this saddened me. Nobody deserves to beaten for trivial things.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-02-2007, 07:20 PM
^^ i saw that too. And i cant say anything since God knows who did what. Like bro Woodrow said, i wasnt there. So i cant vote either way.
Reply

Skillganon
01-02-2007, 08:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
brother, you need to make out your points clearly. I started this thread cuz of all the things that my family has experienced. I didn't make out all this from the back of my head. I'm not saying that the Americans are the right choice for Afghanistan. I don't think neither Taliban nor America are right for Afghanistan. They should leave the poor country alone to itself. The Taliban were there to capture the land, but they fooled people by saying that Afghans weren't following the shariah and that they were intending to straighten things out. It is none of their business. LEAVE THE COUNTRY ALONE. Is that so hard? And once again, I'm very happy that Afghanistan is free from the Taliban's torture. I just hope that there will be a day where America can leave them alone to.

And one more thing bro, have u seen or witnessed anything?, cuz if you did then it will let us know that your talking from experience. If you have not then why bother arguing about it.
Point taken. I have no affiliation with afghan, nor care about a piece of Land but I do care about muslim and Islam. Bear in mind that taking the america as their freind, considering their past and current interest in the middle-east and nearly most muslim majority country, is a bad and poor choice. a choice that will not take well with other muslims.

As far as I am concerned the current goverment is one of them and they have fooled you too, I am sure they will serve their interest willingly.
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-02-2007, 11:38 PM
I am not saying that America is a good choice for Afghanistan. I'm just saying that I'm happy that the Taliban are no longer there cuz of the torture, but I am not at all happy about the fact that America is now there. But a country has a right to govern itself, whether their governing by the Islamic shariah or not. If Allah does not will, even all the Muslim countries put together can't make them govern by the shariah. But if Allah does want Afghanistan to be governed by the shariah, it will happen in a way in which will be beyond our knowledge.

my question, since the first post, was, "Were the Taliban the right choice for Afghanistan, and Why?". I just wanted to know what the other member's opinions are and why they taught that specific way. This thread is going a different way, and let's not include America in here cuz it's causing us to talk about 2 things at a time and making it difficult to state out points. Let's just resolve the first question right now.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
01-03-2007, 12:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
If Allah does not will, even all the Muslim countries put together can't make them govern by the shariah. But if Allah does want Afghanistan to be governed by the shariah, it will happen in a way in which will be beyond our knowledge.

.
Hear Hear!

Hukemè Ander Sab ko Bahar Hukam Na Koè. (Guru Nanak)

(Everything is subject to His Command; Nothing is beyond His Command)
Reply

rav
01-03-2007, 02:15 PM
All the women here voting yes should remember that if they were living under the Taliban they would not even be able to communicate on this forum because the Taliban outlawed females going to school, and therefore, all you women would not know how to write, read or do anything except serve men.
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-03-2007, 04:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
All the women here voting yes should remember that if they were living under the Taliban they would not even be able to communicate on this forum because the Taliban outlawed females going to school, and therefore, all you women would not know how to write, read or do anything except serve men.
at least someone understands....some of our brothers here need to go over the Islamic shariah, find out what type of people the Taliban really were, and then come back to the forum and state your new thoughts on this matter (if your thoughts do change)
Reply

Erundur
01-03-2007, 05:16 PM
Skillgannon
Study Islam first.
Agreed, since this is a Islamic website, take out a pen and paper and start studying brother.

habiibti
I dont see why anyone muslim would oppose to be ruled by Allahs sharia.
I do not believe that any would Muslim would not mind to live by Allah (swt) rule, I would, but again I would also like to have a ruler who knows what he's reciting while he's praying, and also know what he's doing by his actions.

habiibti
Yeah maybe da taliban werent perfect but look at afghanistan now?
Yeah, "da" Taliban were not perfect, but look at Afghanistan back then, when they were in power, how they rule?by fear, the same way Saddam did, and if you looked at them...well, one can only imagine.

Skillgannon
That's what you read mostly. For example an idiots does something wrong and it becomes the taliban. You have to ask yourself is it better to choose between the believers than the unbelievers.

How so? There have been testimonies from people who have lived
there, and know what its like. From a person who lives in the west gets his education in the west, then by all means, pack up and leave. What difference would it make from the leaders in the M.E.? the only thing would be of there faith, that they are muslims, what about the house of Saud? Musharraf in pakistan? Mobarak in Egypt? the Secularists in Turkey? U.A.E? Jordan?.
Skillgannon
Go back to studying Islam read the Quran first, read the seerah of our prophets & shahabah and you will get a better Idea.

I hope your learning a whole lot.

Keltoi
I notice that most people who seem to think the Taliban were so good for Afghanistan live in the West and have never lived under a medieval fundamentalist regime such as the Taliban.
Agreed, I mean you really can't blame them, they've never really been there and they take the word of others who most likely have never been there.

keltoi
I based my vote on what the people of Afghanistan believe, and they overwhelmingly oppose any return to a Taliban like state of affairs.
Having a Shariah based system of Law is not the problem the Taliban poorly executed it to the extent of sheer stupidity.


keltoi
Of course the situation isn't perfect, and many Afghans have voiced their concerns that Afghanistan is more dangerous for people than it was in the past, but of course it is the Taliban who have made it so.
And thanks to the many Mullahs in Eastern pakistan and to its government for funding them...


Skillgannon
I have no affiliation with afghan, nor care about a piece of Land

Then why is it that you like to speak for them as if they do not know?


skillgannon
but I do care about muslim and Islam.
I hear that the Chechens, Fatah, Hamas, Talibs, and Al-Qaeda who also care for Muslims and Islam and are hiring, the pay ain't bad either, just think about it as a career option...

skillgannon
Bear in mind that taking the america as their freind, considering their past and current interest in the middle-east and nearly most muslim majority country, is a bad and poor choice.
See above repsonse.

Skillgannon
a choice that will not take well with other muslims.
Maybe if they stopped slaving for the Dollar, but of course, Muslims should worry about other muslims fighting within themselves, of course this has been happening for centuries.

skillgannon
As far as I am concerned the current goverment is one of them and they have fooled you too, I am sure they will serve their interest willingly.
okay wait, wait, wait, watch how I spin this...


skillgannon
As far as I am concerned the former goverment is one of them and they have fooled you too, I am sure they will serve their interest willingly.
No one is saying the current government is their savior, if anybody knows anything about UNOCAL and the lot then they know.



I voted No. I do not wish to have Tribal rule, with a side of Shariah, and a enormous amount of Hypocrasy on top.

I'll say this again since the last two times I've said it, I haven't gotten a response for it, where in Shariah laws is it permissable to tie up a body behind a moving vehicle while chanting "Allahu Akbar" where is this justifiable in Shariah Law?



"The policy of the Taliban is to
exterminate the Hazaras"
Maulawi Mohammed Hanif, Taliban
Commander
Announcing their policy to a crowd of 300
people summoned to a mosque [after killing
15,000 Hazaras people in a day]


" Hazaras are not Muslim. You can kill them.
It is not a sin."
Mullah Manon Niazi
Governor of Mazar-e Sharif
Speaking to a crowd in a mosque after the
fall of mazar city

" We do not need women to work. What
positive roles can they play in the
society? What is the impact of their roles? We do
not need women. They should stay in
their houses"

Mullah Manon Niazi.
Taliban leader and appointed
Governor of Mazar-e Sharif

"The use of opium is wrong, but the selling
is not wrong according to Islamic law"
Mullah Omar - the Taliban Supreme Leader
[ In reality, Islam forbids both the use of
and selling of any type of illegal drugs,
including opium ]





MASJID AL-EJABAH
This is situated near Ansar Hospital. As mentioned in Muslim, the Prophet (SAS) and his Companions offered two rakat salat in this Masjid.The Prophet (SAS) made a very long supplication or dua after salat. The Prophet (SAS) said to his Companions,
“I requested three things from Allah (SWT) during this dua. First two are granted and the third one is rejected.
First of all, I requested Allah (SWT) not to destroy my Ummah with famine or draught. Secondly, please do not destroy my Ummah by drowning.
Thirdly, my Ummah be saved from fighting among themselves."
Reply

Hijrah
01-03-2007, 05:29 PM
"The policy of the Taliban is to
exterminate the Hazaras"
Maulawi Mohammed Hanif, Taliban
Commander
Announcing their policy to a crowd of 300
people summoned to a mosque [after killing
15,000 Hazaras people in a day]


" Hazaras are not Muslim. You can kill them.
It is not a sin."
Mullah Manon Niazi
Governor of Mazar-e Sharif
Speaking to a crowd in a mosque after the
fall of mazar city

" We do not need women to work. What
positive roles can they play in the
society? What is the impact of their roles? We do
not need women. They should stay in
their houses"

Mullah Manon Niazi.
Taliban leader and appointed
Governor of Mazar-e Sharif

"The use of opium is wrong, but the selling
is not wrong according to Islamic law"
Mullah Omar - the Taliban Supreme Leader
[ In reality, Islam forbids both the use of
and selling of any type of illegal drugs,
including opium ]
Did they really say that, wow, where did you get this exactly?! SMH @ the idea that Hazaras can not be Muslim, the last one is very shocking as well, it is well known that the buying, selling or use of anything haraam is illegal by Islamic law
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Erundur
01-03-2007, 05:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hijrah
the last one is very shocking as well, it is well known that the buying, selling or use of anything haraam is illegal by Islamic law
No its not, Mullah Omar is the Supreme Ruler, thus making it Halal, dear brother you do not know Shariah by making such statements.




:rollseyes
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Al_Imaan
01-03-2007, 10:18 PM
Erundur
No its not, Mullah Omar is the Supreme Ruler, thus making it Halal, dear brother you do not know Shariah by making such statements.
lol..nice way of putting it...

Erundur
I'll say this again since the last two times I've said it, I haven't gotten a response for it, where in Shariah laws is it permissable to tie up a body behind a moving vehicle while chanting "Allahu Akbar" where is this justifiable in Shariah Law?
This is what I have been trying to say, brother Erundur, and some of the members who have voted yes, they keep going on with their side of the story. In Islam, it is haram to judge from one side. Were there any advantages when the Taliban were ruling?
Answer: No. And if there are (which I doubt), please mention them.

No matter how much some of the members here, like brother skillgannon, repeat that the Taliban ruled under the Islamic shariah, it's not true. After I said so much in my other posts, Brother Erundur finally gave good examples. I don't know how to show you the proof of all that my family has been through, but all I know is that everything that has happened to them and all the other afghans are true. I just wish those who are voting yes could actually give us some good points and proofs of how the Taliban were good rulers who were following the Islamic shariah.
Reply

Islamicboy
01-03-2007, 10:38 PM
"The use of opium is wrong, but the selling
is not wrong according to Islamic law"
Mullah Omar - the Taliban Supreme Leader
[ In reality, Islam forbids both the use of
and selling of any type of illegal drugs,
including opium ]

Was it not Mullah Omar and taliban that destoryed all the drugs in afganistan?? Where did you get these statements from???? I refuse to take your word unless proven.
Reply

Skillganon
01-03-2007, 11:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
No matter how much some of the members here, like brother skillgannon, repeat that the Taliban ruled under the Islamic shariah, it's not true. After I said so much in my other posts, Brother Erundur finally gave good examples. I don't know how to show you the proof of all that my family has been through, but all I know is that everything that has happened to them and all the other afghans are true. I just wish those who are voting yes could actually give us some good points and proofs of how the Taliban were good rulers who were following the Islamic shariah.
Sis, when did I said that the Taliban where ruling wholely and correctly under shariah? (if indeed they were trying implement something as such)
Please do not attribute something to me so willingly.

Now can the current afghan gov are willingly to implement shariah, and take the advice of the Quran in the worldy relation?

My problem does not come because the afghan rejected the Taliban, but what they embraced.
It's a poor choice.

Now don't complain about the poll, when you put a yes/no option with little choice. People might very well voted Yes because you limited their option (choice).
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-04-2007, 12:45 AM
Skillganon
Now don't complain about the poll, when you put a yes/no option with little choice. People might very well voted Yes because you limited their option (choice).
If you haven't noticed brother, there is a "I don't know" choice also.
And you keep saying that it's better to have the Taliban there than the Americans because the Taliban were Muslim and could have, more or less, been following the shariah. The Taliban didn't follow the shariah for any matter. If you think they did, then please state some examples so we can all know.

The only reason they embraced the coming of the Americans was because they were free from the Taliban's unjust rules.
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 01:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
"The use of opium is wrong, but the selling
is not wrong according to Islamic law"
Mullah Omar - the Taliban Supreme Leader
[ In reality, Islam forbids both the use of
and selling of any type of illegal drugs,
including opium ]

Was it not Mullah Omar and taliban that destoryed all the drugs in afganistan?? Where did you get these statements from???? I refuse to take your word unless proven.
Okay.

Taliban and Drugs
Despite its remote location and relatively small population of 23 million, Afghanistan is a major producer and exporter of heroin and is strategically important to countries such as Russia, Iran, Pakistan and the United States. CNN news sources estimates an annual export of $80 billion worth of heroin from Afghanistan where the Taliban are virtually controlling about 95% of Afghanistan. The United States government has cast a blind eye in response to the massacre of ethnic minorities in Afghanistan by the Taliban. One of the main reason being that the US government has struggled to resist a massive heroin influx from Afghanistan, and the Taliban have been less hostile to the U.S. then the preceding Afghan governments.


UNDCP conducts, with the approval of the local authorities, an annual ground-based survey, during which surveyors visit all the areas where opium poppy cultivation has been reported. Using a census methodology, they record the extent of opium grown in each region, opium yields and farmgate prices.

For more information contact: Sandro Tucci, Spokesperson, ODCCP Vienna; Telephone: 0043-1-26060 ext. 5629/4116/Fax: 0043-1-26060 ext.5875

UNDCP survey of drugs in Afghanistan - 1999
  • Afghanistan's total production of raw opium for 1999 was estimated to be a record 4,600 metric tons, according to the findings of the United Nations International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP) Annual Opium Survey. This is more than double the estimated production of 2,100 metric tons for 1998.
  • areas under cultivation increased by 43 per cent from 64,000 hectares in 1998 to some 91,000 hectares in 1999; 97 per cent of cultivation in 1999 occurred in Taliban-controlled areas.
  • Cultivation of opium poppy was reported for the first time in the Jawzjan and Kunduz provinces bringing the total number of provinces where opium is grown to 18 out of the 31 in Afghanistan. The number of districts where opium was grown in 1999 increased to 104 from 73 in 1998; 80 per cent of the districts surveyed during the previous growing season experienced an increase in opium poppy cultivation this year.
  • Lower opium production was recorded in the Maiwand and Ghorak districts where the UNDCP is actively engaged in implementing an alternative development project. In these districts, as well as in the district of Khakrez, local authorities had reportedly eradicated 400 hectares of opium poppy in early June, following an agreement reached with UNDCP.
  • The total estimated production of illicit opium for 1999 was about 6,000 metric tons, an increase of some 60 per cent over the total of 3,750 metric tons recorded in 1998. Afghanistan's share in 1999 accounts for 75 per cent of global output, an increase of almost 25 per cent with respect to 1998.


UNDCP survey of drugs in Afghanistan - 1996
  • In a Survey done by Vienna-based United Nations International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP), points out that Afghanistan's current yield of 2,200 to 2,300 (3,400 tones in 1994 dropped down because of bad weather, and falling prices) tonnes of dry opium is almost equal to the combined estimated opium production in the "Golden Triangle" (Lao's People's Democratic Republic, Myanmar (former Burma) and Thailand). The continuing sizable production in both sub regions is seen as having a significant impact on the worldwide abuse and trafficking of heroin.
  • Afghanistan has 55,000 to 58,000 hectares of opium poppy fields, with the provinces of Helmand and Nagarhar accounting for 73 % of the production. The estimated yield varies between 12 kilograms per hectare on rain-fed fields and 68 kilograms per hectare on the best irrigated fields, with a national average of 39.6 kilograms per hectare.
  • The Taliban control nearly 95% of the area under opium poppy cultivation.

Times Asia
  • According to United Nations, Afghanistan is currently the world's largest producer of illicit opiates, as well as the source of about 80% of Europe's heroin market and 15% to 20% of North America's.
  • The opium and and heroin manufactured from opium is officially taxed by Taliban, and generates at least $20 million a year in revenue (note. from tax only). Taliban officials argue, poppy cultivation is an economic necessity for the war-ravaged country's desperately poor farmers.
  • In 1997 the poppy cultivation increased to 28,000 , an increase of 29% more than in 1996.

Afghanistan Online
  • The leader of the Taliban, Mullah Omar (whom the Taliban call "Amir-ul Momineen" – the supreme leader of all the faithful in the world e.g. like the Pope in Catholicism), stated that the use of opium is wrong, but the selling is not wrong according to Islamic law. In reality, Islam forbids both the use of and selling of any type of illegal drugs, including opium.
  • Many of the Taliban are involved in this criminal trade. They include Haji Abdur Rahman Bakwalii from Nimroz, Mestiri Amrullah Helmandi, alias Mestiri Talib, Mullah Abdur Rahim Helmandi, Haji Bismillah Helmandi and Lal Mohammad, who serves as the Taliban commander in Nimroz province.
  • Mullah Yarana, a main Taliban official, lives in the Pakistani border town of Chaman and is involved in processing and smuggling heroin to the United States and Europe through Iran and Turkmenistan. Mullah Yarana's headquarters is basically a den of drug smugglers.


Afghanistan Drug Survey
International Narcotics Control Strategy Report, 1998
Released by the Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs,
U.S.Department of State
Washington, DC, February 1999
I hope that helps.

skillgannon
when did I said that the Taliban where ruling wholely and correctly under shariah? (if indeed they were trying implement something as such)
Please do not attribute something to me so willingly.

I remember you saying this...

Study Islam first.

and...

Go back to studying Islam read the Quran first, read the seerah of our prophets & shahabah and you will get a better Idea.

So again, maybe you should you know...not attribute something so willingly.

Now can the current afghan gov are willingly to implement shariah, and take the advice of the Quran in the worldy relation?

No they can not, like every other government besides Iran cannot thanks to the backing of western leaders and the M.E. thirst for power, don't single one out.

My problem does not come because the afghan rejected the Taliban, but what they embraced. It's a poor choice.

You speak as if every Afghan enjoyed what they did, you have two Afghans here that opposed it, unless an Afghan is willing to come out and have a opposing view points you still have ours and the only people (majority) that approved of the Talibs were Pashtuns who lived in the south.
Reply

Skillganon
01-04-2007, 01:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
If you haven't noticed brother, there is a "I don't know" choice also.
And you keep saying that it's better to have the Taliban there than the Americans because the Taliban were Muslim and could have, more or less, been following the shariah. The Taliban didn't follow the shariah for any matter. If you think they did, then please state some examples so we can all know.
Only if you can show me any state who implements the shariah fully and perfectly. This is not exactly about the Shariah, if it was just that than afghan has already failed by making the latter choice.

Why do you limit your choice between the Taliban and america?
because you percieved you have to choose between the two. No you don't have too. The Latter is worse than the former.

The only reason they embraced the coming of the Americans was because they were free from the Taliban's unjust rules.
Actually the only reason they embraced america is because you was given the choice between the two, and you choose the other because they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya (which is mainly out for their interest not yours), not to mention what they are doing in other part of the world.
You took the easy way out although it might aswell be more detrimental too the muslims.

The only way you can convince the muslims is by applying and desiring the shariah and rejecting the ones you embraced so readily out of thise geographical space called afghan.
Aslong as you embraced them as believers than you have a funny idea, that muslims in general will support them in their cause.
Reply

Islamicboy
01-04-2007, 01:59 AM
I am sorry brother i dont take that as solid prove because it comes from the infidels.
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Erundur
01-04-2007, 02:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
I am sorry brother i dont take that as solid prove because it comes from the infidels.
there are 3 or 4 different subjects that come from the Infidels in this forum that muslims are arguing for and praising but this is not solid evidence? Something that does not come as a favor is ultimately used as being false, get off your pedestal for a moment, there are numbers call'em.


whats "solid" proof then?

besides taht article came from an Afghan website.
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-04-2007, 02:37 AM
Erundur
You speak as if every Afghan enjoyed what they did, you have two Afghans here that opposed it, unless an Afghan is willing to come out and have a opposing view points you still have ours and the only people (majority) that approved of the Talibs were Pashtuns who lived in the south.
The only reason the Taliban never did anything to the pashtuns were because the majority of the pashtuns were on the Taliban's side.
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 02:37 AM
Only if you can show me any state who implements the shariah fully and perfectly. This is not exactly about the Shariah, if it was just that than afghan has already failed by making the latter choice.

really?

The only way you can convince the muslims is by applying and desiring the shariah.
Re-look at your argument.

No state has, every dynasty that Islam has built thanks to Allah (swt) had fallen because people had lost there way, but I guess its one of those things in which you have to see to believe.


The only way you can convince the muslims is by applying and desiring the shariah.

No one is denying the shariah, again its not shariah in Afghanistan but Tribal laws and customs, their Tribal laws and coustoms.

Intentions are one thing, but actions are another.
Reply

Skillganon
01-04-2007, 03:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Only if you can show me any state who implements the shariah fully and perfectly. This is not exactly about the Shariah, if it was just that than afghan has already failed by making the latter choice.
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
really?
Yes. Do you think that the america is willing to implement the shariah and advise the people to take guidance from the Quran and the sunnah?

As I said aslong as the afghan goverment or the people are willing to implement and desire to implement Islam, and carry out the advice of the Quran than their is no blame on you. Not to mention rejecting the current allies.

format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
No state has, every dynasty that Islam has built thanks to Allah (swt) had fallen because people had lost there way, but I guess its one of those things in which you have to see to believe.
It is anonymous agreed by majority of the scholars and muslims that the situation we are in is because what we wrought against ourself and by abandoning much of what is in the Quran and the sunnah.


format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Actually the only reason they embraced america is because you was given the choice between the two, and you choose the other because they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya (which is mainly out for their interest not yours), not to mention what[/B] [B]they are doing in other part of the world.
You took the easy way out although it might aswell be more detrimental too the muslims.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
The only way you can convince the muslims is by applying and desiring the shariah.
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
No one is denying the shariah, again its not shariah in Afghanistan but Tribal laws and customs.
As above in red. You don't have to deny applying and implementing Islam by the mouth for one to deny it.
Just by not desiring/applying Shariah (part of Islam) becomes a denial and rejection of Islam itself.
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 03:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Yes. Do you think that the america is willing to implement the shariah and advise the people to take guidance from the Quran and the sunnah?

No they are not willing to, I know this, I believe the U.S. government had made a smiliar statement about not allowing the Iraqi's to form a shariah based system.

As I said aslong as the afghan goverment or the people are willing to implement and desire to implement Islam, and carry out the advice of the Quran than their is no blame on you. Not to mention rejecting the current allies.


I too would like for them to Implement Islam and the Sunnah in there government in which many nations can be proud of, but the Talibs were not the ones.


It is anonymous agreed by majority of the scholars and muslims that the situation we are in is because what we wrought against ourself and by abandoning much of what is in the Quran and the sunnah.

Agreed


As above in red. You don't have to deny applying and implementing Islam by the mouth for one to deny it. Just by not desiring/applying Shariah (part of Islam) becomes a denial and rejection of Islam itself.

And you think the Talibs allowed freedom of worship? If you were a Shia or Non-Sunni you either fled to the North or left to Iran. I've given statements and evidence to back up my claim another poster had shown a fatwa condemning them. I have more of a claim then you do right about now, unless you have something else to say in favor for them in which they took the action to do Intentions are one thing, but actions are another.

Again I ask, where is it permissable to tie up a body behind a moving vehicle while chanting "Allahu Akbar"? where is this permissable, where's the justification for this?
Reply

Skillganon
01-04-2007, 03:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
No they are not willing to, I know this, I believe the U.S. government had made a smiliar statement about not allowing the Iraqi's to form a shariah based system.

format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
I too would like for them to Implement Islam and the Sunnah in there government in which many nations can be proud of, but the Talibs were not the ones.
Neither is current america or taking those who are open enemy as allies. That is what I said a poor choice, and you do agree above as in your first post.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Ultimately yes.
First they come from the counry which is not Islamic. Importantly insulting the ignorance of my parents as a personal jab at me is not our way.
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
It was not my way either, but ...
but is not our way either.

format_quote Originally Posted by skillganon
the only reason they embraced america is because you was given the choice between the two, and you choose the other because they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya (which is mainly out for their interest not yours), not to mention what[/b] [b]they are doing in other part of the world.
This is a statement and was not somekind of Jab at afghan or anything maliciouse intended. This is totally out of observational something similiar that can be observed in the past, and not to bear in mind afghan is the topic of the discussion.

format_quote Originally Posted by skillganon
[B]You said it as if everyone enjoyed it.
No I did not.

format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
I didn't take the first swing.
and I was not swinging my arm.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
As above in red. You don't have to deny applying and implementing Islam by the mouth for one to deny it. Just by not desiring/applying Shariah (part of Islam) becomes a denial and rejection of Islam itself.
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
And you think the Talibs allowed freedom of worship? If you were a Shia or Non-Sunni you either fled to the North or left to Iran.

Again I ask, where is it permissable to tie up a body behind a moving vehicle while chanting "Allahu Akbar"? where is this permissable, where's the justification for this?
Bro as in red in my previouse post. Please read.

And I was replying as above highlighted blue to this....

format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
No one is denying the shariah, again its not shariah in Afghanistan but Tribal laws and customs.
No need to bring in how bad is the taliban show in this case.
Reply

snakelegs
01-04-2007, 03:56 AM
i voted "no" for the very reasons al_imaan_786 has given. every afghan i have ever talked to, feels the way he does.
sometimes i think people just get reactionary:
u.s. = bad
u.s. = overthrew the taliban
taliban = good.
things are not this simple.
i hope afghanistan will have peace and once again become a truly sovereign nation.
Reply

Islamicboy
01-04-2007, 04:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
there are 3 or 4 different subjects that come from the Infidels in this forum that muslims are arguing for and praising but this is not solid evidence? Something that does not come as a favor is ultimately used as being false, get off your pedestal for a moment, there are numbers call'em.


whats "solid" proof then?

besides taht article came from an Afghan website.
"O you who believe! If a rebellious evil person comes to you with a news, verify it, lest you harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful to what you have done." [Al-Hujurat 49:6]

There has been many lies spread by the enemies of Allah so Taliban is discredited and muslims go agiasnt them.
If you want you can also go through this site:
http://news.worldofislam.info/index.php?page=taliban
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 04:12 AM
[quote=Skillganon;615871]
This is a statement and was not somekind of Jab at afghan or anything maliciouse intended. This is totally out of observational something similiar that can be observed in the past, and not to bear in mind afghan is the topic of the discussion.

The Comment was retracted. Please read.


No I did not.

"they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya"


and I was not swinging my arm.


Its an expression



You don't have to believe what I say which in the matter I really do not care.


Neither do you to I.



Bro, come on, you are trying to tell me what my parents education was and what they knew?

How much do you know about the Talibs? How much do you think of the shariah was in Afghanistan? and how much they knew?



As I said it does not good in persisting in this manner.
Fine.


The statement is their for everyone to see.
I left you a way open, You can retract the statement, press the edit button and delete. So I can do similiar to where I quoted you.

Already done. Please read.
.



No need to bring in how bad is the taliban show in this case.

The Case in point was the Talibs the right choice for Afghanistan I said no for the actions in which they committed, it was all in point within the discussion of this topic.
Reply

Islamicboy
01-04-2007, 04:14 AM
Achievements of Taliban

The fourth achievement that we have that is surprising to everybody is that we have eradicated 75% of world's opium cultivation. Afghanistan produced 75% of worlds opium. And last year we issued an edict asking the people to stop growing opium, and this year, the United Nations Drug Control Program, UNDCP, and their head, Mr. Barnard F. proudly announced that there was 0% of opium cultivation. Zero, zilch, none at all.


Incidentally this was not good news for UN itself because many of them lost their jobs. In the UNDCP, 700 so called experts were working there and they got their salaries and they never went into Afghanistan. So when we issued this edict, I know that they were not happy. And this year they lost their jobs.
Reply

Islamicboy
01-04-2007, 04:20 AM
U.N. drug control officers: Taliban has nearly wiped out opium production

U.N. drug control officers said the Taliban religious militia has nearly wiped out opium production in Afghanistan -- once the world's largest producer -- since banning poppy cultivation last summer.

A 12-member team from the U.N. Drug Control Program spent two weeks searching most of the nation's largest opium-producing areas and found so few poppies that they do not expect any opium to come out of Afghanistan this year.

"We are not just guessing. We have seen the proof in the fields," said Bernard Frahi, regional director for the U.N. program in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He laid out photographs of vast tracts of land cultivated with wheat alongside pictures of the same fields taken a year earlier -- a sea of blood-red poppies.

A State Department official said Thursday all the information the United States has received so far indicates the poppy crop had decreased, but he did not believe it was eliminated.

Last year, Afghanistan produced nearly 4,000 tons of opium, about 75 percent of the world's supply, U.N. officials said. Opium -- the milky substance drained from the poppy plant -- is converted into heroin and sold in Europe and North America. The 1999 output was a world record for opium production, the United Nations said -- more than all other countries combined, including the "Golden Triangle," where the borders of Thailand, Laos and Myanmar meet.

Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban's supreme leader, banned poppy growing before the November planting season and augmented it with a religious edict making it contrary to the tenets of Islam.

The Taliban, which has imposed a strict brand of Islam in the 95 percent of Afghanistan it controls, has set fire to heroin laboratories and jailed farmers until they agreed to destroy their poppy crops.

The U.N. surveyors, who completed their search this week, crisscrossed Helmand, Kandahar, Urzgan and Nangarhar provinces and parts of two others -- areas responsible for 86 percent of the opium produced in Afghanistan last year, Frahi said in an interview Wednesday. They covered 80 percent of the land in those provinces that last year had been awash in poppies.

This year they found poppies growing on barely an acre here and there, Frahi said. The rest -- about 175,000 acres -- was clean.

"We have to look at the situation with careful optimism," said Sandro Tucci of the U.N. Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention in Vienna, Austria.

He said indications are that no poppies were planted this season and that, as a result, there hasn't been any production of opium -- but that officials would keep checking.

The State Department counternarcotics official said the department would make its own estimate of the poppy crop. Information received so far suggests there will be a decrease, but how much is not yet clear, he said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"We do not think by any stretch of the imagination that poppy cultivation in Afghanistan has been eliminated. But we, like the rest of the world, welcome positive news."

The Drug Enforcement Administration declined to comment.

No U.S. government official can enter Afghanistan because of security concerns stemming from the presence of suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden.

Poppies are harvested in March and April, which is why the survey was done now. Tucci said it would have been impossible for the poppies to have been harvested already.

The areas searched by the U.N. surveyors are the most fertile lands under Taliban control. Other areas, though they are somewhat fertile, have not traditionally been poppy growing areas and farmers are struggling to raise any crops at all because of severe drought. The rest of the land held by the Taliban is mountainous or desert, where poppies could not grow.

Karim Rahimi, the U.N. drug control liaison in Jalalabad, capital of Nangarhar province, said farmers were growing wheat or onions in fields where they once grew poppies.

"It is amazing, really, when you see the fields that last year were filled with poppies and this year there is wheat," he said.

The Taliban enforced the ban by threatening to arrest village elders and mullahs who allowed poppies to be grown. Taliban soldiers patrolled in trucks armed with rocket-propelled grenade launchers. About 1,000 people in Nangarhar who tried to defy the ban were arrested and jailed until they agreed to destroy their crops.

Signs throughout Nangarhar warn against drug production and use, some calling it an "illicit phenomenon." Another reads: "Be drug free, be happy."

Last year, poppies grew on 12,600 acres of land in Nangarhar province. According to the U.N. survey, poppies were planted on only 17 acres there this season and all were destroyed by the Taliban.

"The Taliban have done their work very seriously," Frahi said.

But the ban has badly hurt farmers in one of the world's poorest countries, shattered by two decades of war and devastated by drought.

Ahmed Rehman, who shares less than three acres in Nangarhar with his three brothers, said the opium he produced last year on part of the land brought him $1,100.

This year, he says, he will be lucky to get $300 for the onions and cattle feed he planted on the entire parcel.

"Life is very bad for me this year," he said. "Last year I was able to buy meat and wheat and now this year there is nothing."

But Rehman said he never considered defying the ban.

"The Taliban were patrolling all the time. Of course I was afraid. I did not want to go to jail and lose my freedom and my dignity," he said, gesturing with dirt-caked hands.

Shams-ul-Haq Sayed, an officer of the Taliban drug control office in Jalalabad, said farmers need international aid.

"This year was the most important for us because growing poppies was part of their culture, and the first years are always the most difficult," he said.

Tucci said discussions are under way on how to help the farmers.

Western diplomats in Pakistan have suggested the Taliban is simply trying to drive up the price of opium they have stockpiled. The State Department official also said Afghanistan could do more by destroying drug stockpiles and heroin labs and arresting producers and traffickers.

Frahi dismissed that as "nonsense" and said it is drug traffickers and shopkeepers who have stockpiles. Two pounds of opium worth $35 last year are now worth as much as $360, he said.

Mullah Amir Mohammed Haqqani, the Taliban's top drug official in Nangarhar, said the ban would remain regardless of whether the Taliban received aid or international recognition.

"It is our decree that there will be no poppy cultivation. It is banned forever in this country," he said. "Whether we get assistance or not, poppy growing will never be allowed again in our country.


JALALABAD, Afghanistan February 15, 2001


American narcotics experts concluded that the taliban wiped out the world's largest opium crop


UNITED NATIONS, May 18 — The first American narcotics experts to go to Afghanistan under Taliban rule have concluded that the movement's ban on opium-poppy cultivation appears to have wiped out the world's largest crop in less than a year, officials said today.

The American findings confirm earlier reports from the United Nations drug control program that Afghanistan, which supplied about three-quarters of the world's opium and most of the heroin reaching Europe, had ended poppy planting in one season.

But the eradication of poppies has come at a terrible cost to farming families, and experts say it will not be known until the fall planting season begins whether the Taliban can continue to enforce it.

"It appears that the ban has taken effect," said Steven Casteel, assistant administrator for intelligence at the Drug Enforcement Administration in Washington.

The findings came in part from a Pakistan-based agent of the administration who was one of the two Americans on the team just returned from eight days in the poppy-growing areas of Afghanistan.



New York Times - 20 May 2001
Reply

Islamicboy
01-04-2007, 04:21 AM
http://news.worldofislam.info/index....m%20production

^ U.N. drug control officers: Taliban has nearly wiped out opium production

New York Times - 20 May 2001
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 04:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
"O you who believe! If a rebellious evil person comes to you with a news, verify it, lest you harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful to what you have done." [Al-Hujurat 49:6]

There has been many lies spread by the enemies of Allah so Taliban is discredited and muslims go agiasnt them.
If you want you can also go through this site:
http://news.worldofislam.info/index.php?page=taliban
I already know most of that stuff and the comparisons was to a weak democratic nation with civil unrest and wars between tribal leaders, the taliban brought "peace" becasue they took the majority of the land, I'm talking afterwards besides the weak government was after the fall of the soviets.
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 04:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
http://news.worldofislam.info/index....m%20production

^ U.N. drug control officers: Taliban has nearly wiped out opium production

New York Times - 20 May 2001
WAIT WAIT WAIT, why in God's name are you using a Infidel source? retract.

there are 3 or 4 different subjects that come from the Infidels in this forum that muslims are arguing for and praising but this is not solid evidence? Something that does not come as a favor is ultimately used as being false, get off your pedestal for a moment.
:rolleyes:
Reply

Islamicboy
01-04-2007, 04:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
WAIT WAIT WAIT, why in God's name are you using a Infidel source? retract. :rolleyes:
I take muslims for there word. But some muslims will not take there brothers for there word so we have to prove to them from kaffir source.
Reply

Skillganon
01-04-2007, 04:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
No I did not.
format_quote Originally Posted by skillaganon
"they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya"
Yes that is alway's what they promise. It is an observational in the past too.

format_quote Originally Posted by skillganon
You don't have to believe what I say which in the matter I really do not care.
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
Neither do you to I.
The above statement was in respect to what I said about my parents. Unless you think I am lying.

format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
How much do you know about the Talibs? How much do you think of the shariah was in Afghanistan? and how much they knew?
So ignorance is the reason for their choice in this case? Still a poor choice.
I do not think the current afghan goverment can plea ignorance.
n.


format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
No need to bring in how bad is the taliban show in this case.
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundar
The Case in point was the Talibs the right choice for Afghanistan I said no for the actions in which they committed, it was all in point within the discussion of this topic. You went off about the Americans.
It was not off-topic it was indeed relevant, because it is the choice afghan made.
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 04:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
I take muslims for there word. But some muslims will not take there brothers for there word so we have to prove to them from kaffir source.
And I don't? I have a different opinion on a matter to which I know and have family who knows and I'm consider bad?
Reply

Islamicboy
01-04-2007, 04:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
I'm consider bad?
I dont know are you?
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 04:45 AM
Yes that is alway's what they promise. It is an observational in the past too.

As I read, it was in reference to the whole (afghans), they wanted this dunya.



The above statement was in respect to what I said about my parents. Unless you think I am lying.
I can not call you a blatant liar and I have no say to do so, my comment was in referene to you not having to believe in what I say, as I too you (being for the talibs), but not in reference to the education.



So ignorance is the reason for their choice in this case? Still a poor choice. I do not think the current afghan goverment can plea ignorance.
I'm not pro-afghan government nor am I pro-talibs. What the talibs used was mainly Tribal customs mixed in with shariah. Not "Pure" shariah.

I still feel the Talibs were not the ones, I mean why then would they lose power unless Allah (swt) willed it?
Reply

Erundur
01-04-2007, 04:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
I dont know are you?
Lord, I hope not.
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Skillganon
01-04-2007, 04:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
I dont know are you?
Assalamu alaikum bro, you do not have to convince wheter the taliban was bad or not. It becomes pointless discussion as they may have been or may have not.
In this matter we only should agree "new" that we carry all our dispute to the Quran and the sunnah, and strive towards applying Islam in all matters.

...and brother Erundar and IslamicBoy, let us stop encouraging each other in this manner.
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Erundur
01-04-2007, 04:58 AM
Fine.

Reply

Al_Imaan
01-05-2007, 02:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
In this matter we only should agree "new" that we carry all our dispute to the Quran and the sunnah, and strive towards applying Islam in all matters.

...and brother Erundar and IslamicBoy, let us stop encouraging each other in this manner.
:sl:
Yes brother, we should strive towards applying Islam in all matters and that we should stop disputing over this matter. Allah(swt) is the All-Seeing and knows who has done what, where, and how. He will punish the wrong-doers and reward those who strive towards the right path.

SOBHANA RABBEKA RABBIL-IZZATE AMMA YASE-FOON, WA SALAMOON ALAL-MORSALEEN VAL-HAMDO LILLAHE RABBIL ALAMEEN.

Hallowed is thy Lord, the Lord of Majesty, far above from that which they ascribe (unto Him). And peace be upon the prophets. And all praise is God’s, the Lord of the worlds.

:w:
Reply

Warthog
01-06-2007, 04:14 AM
The taliban are not a good choice to rule over any civilians. They are oppressive and brutal. I think they would make excellent prison keepers though. Omar as the warden, and his cronies as the gaurds. I don't mind if criminals are treated bad.
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-08-2007, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
:sl:
I was thinking that many people are happy that the Taliban were driven out of Afghanistan while many other think the Taliban can bring peace there.
I'm Afghan-American and from my point of view, I'm happy that the Taliban are no longer there. The afghans went through enough torture.

What does everyone here think?
:w:
any proof that the taliban was a cause of the torture? lets see it inshaAllaah
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Al_Imaan
01-08-2007, 10:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
any proof that the taliban was a cause of the torture? lets see it inshaAllaah
:sl:
brother, I don't need to give any proof. The biggest proof ca be heard from the mouths of the afghans that were present during the Taliban rule. No one has to accept that all I believe is true. Like I said before, Allah(swt) is the All-Seeing and knows who has done what, where, and how. He will punish the wrong-doers and reward those who strive towards the right path.

ps: you can go through my other posts in the thread, it may not be much of a proof but it's what the afghans have been through.
:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
01-08-2007, 10:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
:sl:
brother, I don't need to give any proof. The biggest proof ca be heard from the mouths of the afghans that were present during the Taliban rule. No one has to accept that all I believe is true. Like I said before, Allah(swt) is the All-Seeing and knows who has done what, where, and how. He will punish the wrong-doers and reward those who strive towards the right path.

ps: you can go through my other posts in the thread, it may not be much of a proof but it's what the afghans have been through.
:w:
i see jazakAllah khair, i just dont wanna believe anything without at least a little proof inshaAllaah. i guess this is something i will have to leave Allaah to judge, inshaAllaah he will do wats best.
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Dawud_uk
01-09-2007, 04:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hijrah
Taalibaan indeed indulges in soofiyah and numerous other innovations, I think this is a wonderful post on another forum made about Taalibaan and many other groups some love today:



I read a fatwa somewhere by Shaykh Saalih Al-Uthaymeen condemning them as well.
these are lies against amir al mumineen and the leaders of the taliban by people who were never there taking stories from people who were also never there.

the taliban told the ulema if you consider us misguided, then come and live here and advice us but some just prefer their comfortable existence under the rule of tyrants and apostates.
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-09-2007, 05:08 PM
assalaamu alaykum,

you ask my opinion so here it is,

amir al mumineen Mullah Muhammad Omar was the best thing to happen to afghanistan for a long time, i think they made mistakes but over all were an overwhelmingly good thing.

yes they forced women to cover, this is in the shariah according to the fiqh of imam abu hanifa, yes they beat some women from RAWA who would incite the taliban and then film the results and so they should.

RAWA are a kufr organisation promoting 'maoism' which for those that dont know is an even more extreme form of communism that comes from china under chairman mao.

most of the negative propoganda that comes from afghanistan came from RAWA and yet you all swallow it as truth, even though they are liars and deserve far worse than was given to them.

doesnt Allah tell you to check up on the facts if a Fasiq comes to you with news or there will be problems in the land and innocent people accused?

yet you believe these lies coming from the worse of people, those who promote kufr and shirk in taking secularism as a god besides Allah.

The taliban are the best thing for afghanistan, it was a messed up land full or raping and pillaging warlords and they cleaned it up and yes they were harsh, and make mistakes but sometimes a little harshness can be forgiven if the end result is for the good of islam.

for those talafis who doubt the taliban and make excuses for their own silence whilst a muslim nation was pulled down and destroyed then please check your own iman first in following the apostate leaders who take the kuffar as their awliya,

for those doubting the validity of destroying statues then know this is the sunnah, it is how we prevent shirk not just today but tomorrow and there after.

May Allah swt bring back the taliban and let them bring victory of islam to afghanistan and its surrounding lands, ameen!!!

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Hijrah
01-09-2007, 09:30 PM
HAve u been there?!
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-09-2007, 10:07 PM
Dawud_uk
but sometimes a little harshness can be forgiven if the end result is for the good of islam.
May Allah swt bring back the taliban and let them bring victory of islam to afghanistan and its surrounding lands, ameen!!!
First of all, the Taliban didn't follow the shariah completely. There wasn't little harshness but alot...wait a minute...harshness? it's more like torture...closing schools and giving women no right is not said in the shariah, i'm not against the fact that they got women to cover themselves, but the amount of people they killed and how they killed them..that's just terrible. Some people here think that I'm happy that the Taliban are no longer in power and that I'm glad that America is in Afghanistan....I am not happy at all with America being there. The Taliban would have been fine IF they followed the Islamic shariah the way they were supposed to....I'm not sure if anyone here saw the documentary of the woman that was shot over her burqah in front of her three kids, and like it's said "don't believe what you don't see", but a family member of mine also witnessed it. Is that following the shariah?

Let's go back to what brother Erundur has said:

"I'm not pro-afghan government nor am I pro-talibs. What the talibs used was mainly Tribal customs mixed in with shariah. Not "Pure" shariah.

I still feel the Talibs were not the ones, I mean why then would they lose power unless Allah (swt) willed it?
I also believe that it was more like tribal customs, and if the Taliban had heart...they would have had mercy on the poor people.
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-10-2007, 12:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hijrah
HAve u been there?!
assalaamu alaykum,

first of all where are your salaams? you are on an islamic message board so greet your brothers and sisters with good manners.

right, no i havent, but most of my friends are from one side or the other of the afghan border as the masjid i attend most is pathan.

i have also spoken to scholars who travelled there whilst it was under taliban rule and have researched the topic extensively rather than just qouting some anti articles, i have read both sides and you say yourself they were devients and yet have you been there? have you met them? have those who you qoute been there or met them?

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-10-2007, 12:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
First of all, the Taliban didn't follow the shariah completely. There wasn't little harshness but alot...wait a minute...harshness? it's more like torture...closing schools and giving women no right is not said in the shariah, i'm not against the fact that they got women to cover themselves, but the amount of people they killed and how they killed them..that's just terrible. Some people here think that I'm happy that the Taliban are no longer in power and that I'm glad that America is in Afghanistan....I am not happy at all with America being there. The Taliban would have been fine IF they followed the Islamic shariah the way they were supposed to....I'm not sure if anyone here saw the documentary of the woman that was shot over her burqah in front of her three kids, and like it's said "don't believe what you don't see", but a family member of mine also witnessed it. Is that following the shariah?

Let's go back to what brother Erundur has said:



I also believe that it was more like tribal customs, and if the Taliban had heart...they would have had mercy on the poor people.
assalaamu alaykum,

first of all i am not ignorant of the situation in afghanistan or the people of that region, my local masjid is mostly requented by pathans and tajiks living here in the uk and all of them are pro-taliban that i have spoken to.

yes they made mistakes but overall their actions are good.

regarding the women shot in the stadium that was filmed by RAWA, a kufr organisation trying to destroy shariah i might add. what was her crime?

she had slept with men for money, then when she feared her husband finding out about her lifestyle she murdered him, then tried to blame it on her daughter and would have seen her own daughter killed for this crime but instead she was found guilty herself and so executed.

in islam the death penalty is to be put in place unless the family accept to forgive her, in this case her in-laws not suprisingly didnt accept such a thing and had her killed after a shariah based trial.

if you look at a the site posted a few posts up regarding the taliban you will see they themselves admit schools were closed, or that schools that were co-ed were made into boys only schools to be more exact.

this is not the decision i would have made but what is the result now? secularism and kufr is taught to the children of afghanistan, mixed schools are now being built by the international community to try to push their values upon the muslims.

the taliban wished to educate girls, but they said it had to be an islamic education and many schools did stay open but others were closed because they refused to teach an islamic curiculum or where co-ed.

but closing co-ed schools, destroying statues, trials and execuation for murder (all justified within islam), is this all enough to prevent your support for your brothers and sisters in the taliban?

no, you make excuses from the land of the enemies of islam for your support for them, you and your family pay your taxes to them and take them as your awliya and if you remain there and do not leave then certainly you will have to face judgement on that and may Allah swt forgive you, me and all those living in darul kufr whilst the muslim lands need our aid.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

SATalha
01-10-2007, 01:19 PM
Ameen Bro, the motive of the west is clear. Building these schools to push their thoughts and values in to our world. I keep saying at least the Taliban tries to implement Allah's law. And for that i say a big thumbs up.
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Dawud_uk
01-10-2007, 02:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Ameen Bro, the motive of the west is clear. Building these schools to push their thoughts and values in to our world. I keep saying at least the Taliban tries to implement Allah's law. And for that i say a big thumbs up.
assalaamu alaykum,

exactly, they are trying even if sometimes they dont succeed, at least they are trying unlike the other 99% of the ummah with small exceptions in a few lands.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Erundur
01-10-2007, 02:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
face judgement on that and may Allah swt forgive you, me and all those living in darul kufr whilst the muslim lands need our aid.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Yes may Allah (swt) forgive all the Muslims in Non-Muslim lands.

as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
i need to add this: our objection to al-qa`idah of ibn laden, whether it exists in iraq, algeria, palestine, lebanon or afghanistan, and the other similar groups like taliban and hamas, is not merely because of their methods, which indeed have corrupted the proper meaning of jihad and its goals and methods, but also because of their methodology and the way they understand iman and kufr, tauheed and shirk, and the fact that they resurrected the methodology of the khawarij and, in the case of taliban, sufism and, in the case of hamas, preferring political reform to reforming the creed and practices of muslims by claiming that there is no time to waste.....in the end, they did not establish the khilafah, or reform politics, or free muslim lands, or reform the creed and practices of muslims, but instead wasted tens of years trying to earn victory from allah without establishing the true islam in their hearts and life as the prophet of allah and his companions did......as a consequence, muslims now live in a far worse situation than they were even ten years ago: civil wars, backward economies, division, bidah, lack of safety, sects, nationalistic ideas, etc., which really brings grief to muslims and trouble to their lands.....in comparison, the prophet's blessed jihad and his companions' continuation of it led to the conquering of many lands, including palestine, iraq and afghanisatn: kabul was conqeured by an army that included some of the sahaba, and do not forget who conquered india and who delivered al-quds from the hands of the european christians, it is the same salaf that people today ridicule: i just received an email from a moron who takes osama abdallah as his teacher, attacking the salaf by calling them a sect, so i responded by saying that my sect is the sahab, what is your sect?.....
the salaf: they open and we close, they conquer and we surrender and lose, they succeed and we fail, they establish the religion and we divide in it, they earn allah's forgivness and we do not know how and where we will end if we continue defying them and contradicting the sunnah, we do not practice islam or its faith as they did but we wish to receive glory and might even more than that they received.....al-albani's advice is a golden advice, if muslims but listen and obey, that the young men and women of today should shun all these sects and concentrate on building their islamic faith and practicing it the way the salaf did that one day soon they may see al-quds the same way salah ad-deen saw it after around 200 years of bloody crusader presence......
as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
jalal abualrub
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-10-2007, 03:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
Yes may Allah (swt) forgive all the Muslims in Non-Muslim lands.
assalaamu alaykum,

the long article you qoute mentions the taliban, yet it is contary to what i know of them from speaking to brothers who travelled there during that time, they did purify the sunnah and arrested some of the worst innovators such as two leading sufis until they repented and agreed not to act as they had done and also destroyed the structures built over tombs of saints.

the person seems to be speaking from ignorance, may Allah forgive him and may those he has slandered forgive him for such.

these allegations seem to stem from the fact that the talibans origins is in the deobandi madrasahs and because some of the deobandi scholars are upon shirk and bidah then all must be but this is like saying all those who attend al azhar are upon the ashari aqeedah and upon the innovations of their teachers?

one ruling on the taliban made this exact point and showing how rediculous it is, especially as most of the taliban studied in madrasah in northern pakistan not in deoband in india.

the old allegation of khawarij comes up again and again against those who are fighting for tawhid and islam, but many of those who make the allegation follow leaders who kill and imprison muslims and especially the mujahadeen and leave the kuffar alone even in the lands they are forbidden to enter by non other than Rasoolullah saws which is also one of the chief characteristics of the khawarij.

so who has the characteristics of khawarij? those who attack and slander the muslims often and leave the kuffar alone and follow leaders who take the kuffar as their awliya or those who fight for islam and fight the kuffar and speak against them and try to help their brothers and sisters in islam?

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Erundur
01-10-2007, 03:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

yet it is contary to what i know of them from speaking to brothers who travelled there during that time, they did purify the sunnah and arrested some of the worst innovators such as two leading sufis until they repented and agreed not to act as they had done and also destroyed the structures built over tombs of saints.

Me too, My grandfather went there, two of my Uncles went there so yeah...

the person seems to be speaking from ignorance, may Allah forgive him and may those he has slandered forgive him for such.
I hope not, he is a Muslim leader in florida, he did a refutation against a person who was slandering Islam, www.muslimaccess.com <--- check it out is on the first page, just go down and you will see his name.

these allegations seem to stem from the fact that the talibans origins is in the deobandi madrasahs and because some of the deobandi scholars are upon shirk and bidah then all must be but this is like saying all those who attend al azhar are upon the ashari aqeedah and upon the innovations of their teachers?
Do you know any of them personally?

Here is the thing, the Shariah law was mainly based on Pashtun Culture. I believe there is an article here where an afghan made a claim that The Shariah was in direct with there culture. But it was from a non-muslim source.

one ruling on the taliban made this exact point and showing how rediculous it is, especially as most of the taliban studied in madrasah in northern pakistan not in deoband in india.
Thank you for pointing out that the Talibs originated in Pakistan and not in Afghanistan.

who kill and imprison muslims and especially the mujahadeen

Both of my Grandfathers were Mujahadeen and so was one of my Uncles against the soviets, One of my Grandfathers had passed away though (may Allah forgive him)

so who has the characteristics of khawarij? those who attack and slander the muslims often and leave the kuffar alone and follow leaders who take the kuffar as their awliya or those who fight for islam and fight the kuffar and speak against them and try to help their brothers and sisters in islam?
I help out in my local mosque:?



often and leave the kuffar alone and follow leaders who take the kuffar as their awliya or those who fight for islam and fight the kuffar and speak against them and try to help their brothers and sisters in islam?

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
:rock:
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-10-2007, 03:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
:rock:
assalaamu alaykum,

yet it is contary to what i know of them from speaking to brothers who travelled there during that time, they did purify the sunnah and arrested some of the worst innovators such as two leading sufis until they repented and agreed not to act as they had done and also destroyed the structures built over tombs of saints.
Me too, My grandfather went there, two of my Uncles went there so yeah...
May Allah swt guide you t follow them to go in the path of Allah, and may he grant us both the blessings of joining the caravan of martyrs, ameen.

the person seems to be speaking from ignorance, may Allah forgive him and may those he has slandered forgive him for such.
I hope not, he is a Muslim leader in florida, he did a refutation against a person who was slandering Islam, www.muslimaccess.com <--- check it out is on the first page, just go down and you will see his name.
Then he needs to leave Darul kufr like the rest of us then doesn’t he? and not be supporting the Kuffar with his taxes and presence. To be honest the internet is full of refutations of muslims by this brother and replies to it, and where as I might agree with some of his work he seems to be a little too keen to be saying Bidah, shirk, Kuffar and kaffir at people without establishing the evidence and I am going to stay well clear for him, he is all too typical of a certain type of muslim who claims the salafi Manhaj but who’s Adhab is anything but, but Allahu Alim I am human and could be wrong also and I am certainly no scholar or even student of knowledge but I prefer to take my knowledge from other than this man.

these allegations seem to stem from the fact that the talibans origins is in the deobandi madrasahs and because some of the deobandi scholars are upon shirk and bidah then all must be but this is like saying all those who attend al azhar are upon the ashari aqeedah and upon the innovations of their teachers?
Do you know any of them personally?
I know scholars and imams who has travelled those lands though not as Mujahadeen, only as visitors once the Taliban came to power. the scholars of the Mujahadeen have also affirmed through their personal contact the conduct of the Taliban and their strictness with the people of Bidah and shirk.

Many of my friends have family both sides of the border and all speak highly of the Taliban. Do you know anyone who went there themselves and have genuine concerns regarding their conduct?

Here is the thing, the Shariah law was mainly based on Pashtun Culture. I believe there is an article here where an afghan made a claim that The Shariah was in direct with there culture. But it was from a non-muslim source.
Exactly, there is no such source from good practicing Muslims because it is not true and is a lie and a slander and you should know better than to repeat such from the open evil doers such as the Kuffar and not repeat their lies without verification as Muslims are commanded in the Quran by Allah swt.

one ruling on the taliban made this exact point and showing how rediculous it is, especially as most of the taliban studied in madrasah in northern pakistan not in deoband in india.
Thank you for pointing out that the Talibs originated in Pakistan and not in Afghanistan.
They’re leaders are Afghanis, but they studied in Islamic universities in NWFP not in India, but even if they did it would not make them upon their Aqeedah and Manhaj, the emphasis is upon the one making it to prove it not upon the one defending the honour of his brothers and sisters to disprove it. Do you not agree? Therefore prove your allegations or withdraw them.

The Afghan-Pakistan border was drawn up by the British and is not accepted by the Muslims who live there as being valid, they all consider themselves muslims first, then their tribe and maybe somewhere down the list comes nation but to them it is not an issue, but even if all of them came from Pakistan then so what? Didn’t imam Shamil come from Uzbekistan even through his Jihad was fought in Chechnya?

so who has the characteristics of khawarij? those who attack and slander the muslims often and leave the kuffar alone and follow leaders who take the kuffar as their awliya or those who fight for islam and fight the kuffar and speak against them and try to help their brothers and sisters in islam?
I help out in my local mosque
This was not a specific allegation at yourself, but only saying it is often those scholars who support the tyrant and apostate rulers and are found at their gates who make the allegation of those who fight for Islam as being khawarij, others who follow them follow them in making this allegation and yet they follow leaders and rulers who attack and kill the Muslims and leave the Kuffar alone which is also a attribute of khawarij Muslims.

Therefore i would prefer to take my knowledge from salafi ulema who show more adhab and are not found at the gates of the rulers as we are warned against such scholars.

ps.
finally brother, please remember your salaams, this is an islamic discussion board so we should keep to islamic adhab such as using salaams for each other, especially when they are given by someone else then you should respond.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-10-2007, 05:06 PM
regarding the women shot in the stadium that was filmed by RAWA, a kufr organisation trying to destroy shariah i might add. what was her crime?

she had slept with men for money, then when she feared her husband finding out about her lifestyle she murdered him, then tried to blame it on her daughter and would have seen her own daughter killed for this crime but instead she was found guilty herself and so executed.
I know that too..but killing her in front of her kids?..what do you think of that?
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-10-2007, 05:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
I know that too..but killing her in front of her kids?..what do you think of that?
i do not know the full circumstances, but as the sources is RAWA, a kufr supporting organisation then i would not take anything they say as reliable, if they told me it was daytime i would look out of the window to check and expect it to be black outside.

even if true, it would not make them not worthy of support, remember her children are also their fathers children and yet she was convicted in a shariah court of murdering her husband, their father.

let me tell you another story of the taliban, one that shows their love for the true shariah, the shariah that brings justice to the people.

my friend and brother in islam lives in sheffield, about 2mins from where i used to live and we help each other out in dawah projects etc.

one eid he invited me straight from the masjid to eat at his house knowing i had no wife then and would have to go home and cook myself so he invited me in and they fed me biryani and sweet rice if i remember.

anyway, his brother was a labourer working in a town near khandahah as like i said before, most of my pathan friends have family either side of the border.

so anyway, whilst he was he was there a young couple, only in their early teens ran away together. you see they were from different tribes of pathans and as you are probably aware as you are from afghanistan, the pathans - especially the cultural ones will not marry outside their tribe.

so this young couple ran away together, but the two tribes being on good terms didnt fall out over it but just went in search of them and found them together in a deralict house nearby and dragged them to the qadi (islamic judge who was a talib) and asked that they be flogged for zina.

the judge asked for their witnesses, saying they needed four witnesses. they said they had over 50 witnesses who had seen them together in the disused house.

the qadi was amazed, and said 'you have over fifty witnesses that saw the pen go in the ink well?'

at this point i think the two tribes elders should have realised they were on a loser, and they denied they had seen them in the act and so therefore the judge gave them all 10 lashes for making a false allegation and freed the couple to marry.

mashallah, now is that not how the shariah should be? is that not only showing the wisdom but also the mercy of shariah as it should be practiced?

may Allah swt grant us such wisdom as he granted this qadi and may he make us firm upon the right path, ameen.

remember the taliban didnt just execute one woman, they also freed many more from forced marriages and gave them the option of stopping with their husband or leaving him and outlawed the practice of exchanging women to end disputes, and ending the practice of the brutal warlords who would send men to a girls house, if her family refused the request for 'marriage' to the warlord of one of his men the girl was usually murdered nevermind the thousands who just went missing and were kidnapped and raped.

sister, the taliban made some mistakes but over all were upon the sunnah and tawhid so pray for their guidence where they make mistakes and support them when they do a good deed such as fighting the kuffar and trying to establish the shariah and banish shirk from your homeland.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Erundur
01-10-2007, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,



May Allah swt guide you t follow them to go in the path of Allah, and may he grant us both the blessings of joining the caravan of martyrs, ameen.

assalaamu alaykum,
Agreed.



Then he needs to leave Darul kufr like the rest of us then doesn’t he? and not be supporting the Kuffar with his taxes and presence. To be honest the internet is full of refutations of muslims by this brother and replies to it, and where as I might agree with some of his work he seems to be a little too keen to be saying Bidah, shirk, Kuffar and kaffir at people without establishing the evidence and I am going to stay well clear for him, he is all too typical of a certain type of muslim who claims the salafi Manhaj but who’s Adhab is anything but, but Allahu Alim I am human and could be wrong also and I am certainly no scholar or even student of knowledge but I prefer to take my knowledge from other than this man.

I know some of his work, apparently not as much as you do, but what I had bolded, he did have a good point.



I know scholars and imams who has travelled those lands though not as Mujahadeen, only as visitors once the Taliban came to power. the scholars of the Mujahadeen have also affirmed through their personal contact the conduct of the Taliban and their strictness with the people of Bidah and shirk.

So do I...well my Father and Grandfather do.

Many of my friends have family both sides of the border and all speak highly of the Taliban. Do you know anyone who went there themselves and have genuine concerns regarding their conduct?

My Islamic teacher and the Mullah of my Masjid came from there (Afghanistan). Again the Intentions are not the concern, its the actions that many of them had used under the name of Shariah, that really is a concern. Because when you speak with some of them, most of the things that they had learned was out of mere recitation, now when say I this I'm not saying just 1 or 2 people.


Exactly, there is no such source from good practicing Muslims because it is not true and is a lie and a slander and you should know better than to repeat such from the open evil doers such as the Kuffar and not repeat their lies without verification as Muslims are commanded in the Quran by Allah swt.

Now when I had said this...

I believe there is an article here where an afghan made a claim that The Shariah was in direct with there culture. But it was from a non-muslim source.
I was not trying to use it as my jusitification as to why Shariah was being mixed in with Pashtun culture I've said it before that article came out. I know there is of no source, the source that I have are the testimonies from people who have been there. I've read the links that Islamicboy had given, the Deal UNOCAL, all of it.

And the article was for Afghans who wanted the Taliban back.



They’re leaders are Afghanis, but they studied in Islamic universities in NWFP not in India, but even if they did it would not make them upon their Aqeedah and Manhaj, the emphasis is upon the one making it to prove it not upon the one defending the honour of his brothers and sisters to disprove it. Do you not agree? Therefore prove your allegations or withdraw them.

I said they originated, I did not say that there were not leaders. I do not have his name right now, there is this one fellow from pakistan...but I will when I get home, I'm in school right now.

The Afghan-Pakistan border was drawn up by the British
I know, same thing that happened in Africa and The Middle Easter after WWI.


and is not accepted by the Muslims who live there as being valid, they all consider themselves muslims first,
Not too the ones that I've spoken too...Mainly it was there tribe first...

but even if all of them came from Pakistan then so what?
Why not help set up a complete Theocracy in Pakistan? I know there trying though.


Didn’t imam Shamil come from Uzbekistan even through his Jihad was fought in Chechnya?
I cannot comment on the situation in Chechnya as I am not really familiar with the situation except that Russians should leave and stop occupying the land for oil (all I can say is may Allah (swt) help the Muslims) nor can I google him for a quick reference. To make a quick discussion.



This was not a specific allegation at yourself, but only saying it is often those scholars who support the tyrant and apostate rulers and are found at their gates who make the allegation of those who fight for Islam as being khawarij, others who follow them follow them in making this allegation and yet they follow leaders and rulers who attack and kill the Muslims and leave the Kuffar alone which is also a attribute of khawarij Muslims.

If you makes you feel better I'm also not for the current administration either, People want a government in that region it should be done with the people in that region and not the help of foreign influence.

Therefore i would prefer to take my knowledge from salafi ulema who show more adhab and are not found at the gates of the rulers as we are warned against such scholars.

If it helps you sleep at night, then by all means:thumbs_up

ps.
finally brother, please remember your salaams, this is an islamic discussion board so we should keep to islamic adhab such as using salaams for each other, especially when they are given by someone else then you should respond.

My bad, most of the time that I am on here is while I'm in school either in between Instructional time or when my Professor is not looking:X :-[

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
:salaam:
Reply

Hijrah
01-10-2007, 07:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

first of all where are your salaams? you are on an islamic message board so greet your brothers and sisters with good manners.

right, no i havent, but most of my friends are from one side or the other of the afghan border as the masjid i attend most is pathan.

i have also spoken to scholars who travelled there whilst it was under taliban rule and have researched the topic extensively rather than just qouting some anti articles, i have read both sides and you say yourself they were devients and yet have you been there? have you met them? have those who you qoute been there or met them?

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
assalam-u-alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

i apologize for not saying this the first time but i will leave this subject it's really not worth it, Allaah knows best in the end
Reply

Keltoi
01-10-2007, 10:05 PM
Regardless of "why" the woman was executed in a soccer stadium by an AK-47 to the back of the head, in front of her children, I would hope any civilized human being would denounce this as inhuman.
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-11-2007, 01:23 AM
so this young couple ran away together, but the two tribes being on good terms didnt fall out over it but just went in search of them and found them together in a deralict house nearby and dragged them to the qadi (islamic judge who was a talib) and asked that they be flogged for zina.

the judge asked for their witnesses, saying they needed four witnesses. they said they had over 50 witnesses who had seen them together in the disused house.

the qadi was amazed, and said 'you have over fifty witnesses that saw the pen go in the ink well?'

at this point i think the two tribes elders should have realised they were on a loser, and they denied they had seen them in the act and so therefore the judge gave them all 10 lashes for making a false allegation and freed the couple to marry.

mashallah, now is that not how the shariah should be? is that not only showing the wisdom but also the mercy of shariah as it should be practiced?
:sl:
the taliban only protected and helped those who were on their side. most of the pashtuns and pathans were on the taliban side, not much of them were harmed. If they had left the country with Ahmah Shah Massoud, he would have done something about Afghanistan following the Islamic shariah for he was a religious man and wanted his country, our country, to be under the influence of the Quran, sunnah and shariah...wait a minute:? ..why would the taliban want that?...they just continued fighting against him, they like their ways of governing under a cultural basis.
:w:
Reply

Hijrah
01-11-2007, 01:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Regardless of "why" the woman was executed in a soccer stadium by an AK-47 to the back of the head, in front of her children, I would hope any civilized human being would denounce this as inhuman.
lol but that's fake just a propaganda video against the taliban haha
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
the taliban only protected and helped those who were on their side. most of the pashtuns and pathans were on the taliban side, not much of them were harmed. If they had left the country with Ahmah Shah Massoud, he would have done something about Afghanistan following the Islamic shariah for he was a religious man and wanted his country, our country, to be under the influence of the Quran, sunnah and shariah...wait a minute ..why would the taliban want that?...they just continued fighting against him, they like their ways of governing under a cultural basis.
:sl:
very good point about ahmed shah massoud, i won't aim this at the taliban but some people just wanted dissension for the purpose of getting power, ahmed shah massoud was later killed by a suicide bomber who was sent by none other than a man who was kept safe within afghanistan by the taalibaan. O yes, another thing, I realize that the normal stereotype of the taliban, are some very pious people who sacrifice so much and go live in a cave, that's interesting but one of the taalibaan leaders currently who was on geo tv by the name of anas sharif was being interviewed and his cell phone rang, i don't want to stray from the topic but strangely enough his cell was better than mine (a razor!)
Reply

Skillganon
01-11-2007, 01:55 AM
As I mentioned the current direction of the Afghan goverment and their alliance with their lords and protectors is against The Quran and the Sunnah.

When I said before refer to your argument & dispute to the Quran and the sunnah, than it is very clear on those who persist in holding to the way of of desbelievers. The Quran is littered with warning and admonishment, advice and guidance.
People do not take heed.
Reply

Malaikah
01-11-2007, 02:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Regardless of "why" the woman was executed in a soccer stadium by an AK-47 to the back of the head, in front of her children, I would hope any civilized human being would denounce this as inhuman.
I'm curious, how old were the kids, and did they choose to be there? Or were they forced to watch?:?
Reply

rav
01-11-2007, 03:19 AM
Hijra, you wrote:
lol but that's fake just a propaganda video against the taliban haha
Oh, if everyone had your mindset than there would be no "truth" or "fact" left in this entire universe.

Hello al_imaan_786, you wrote:
the taliban only protected and helped those who were on their side.
I assume there were females who were on their side, and what did they do other than not let them go to school to learn how to read or write? The Taliban ran a gender apartheid.

Therfore, if you were living under the Taliban, as a female, you couldn't post here because you would have been not aloud to learn basic qualities of life, only because of your gender.

Hello dawud_uk, you wrote:
i do not know the full circumstances, but as the sources is RAWA, a kufr supporting organisation then i would not take anything they say as reliable, if they told me it was daytime i would look out of the window to check and expect it to be black outside.
Really, does Islam teach that? If so, you have explained a lot.
Reply

Skillganon
01-11-2007, 03:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
I assume there were females who were on their side, and what did they do other than not let them go to school to learn how to read or write? The Taliban ran a gender apartheid.
Do not assume one is talking on behalf of Islamic Jurispudence.
Gender aparthied? That is a new one term to use against Islam. lol.
Their is nothing against Islam if their is segregation and it is well known by the muslim members here what that entails in accordance to Islam.

Therfore, if you were living under the Taliban, as a female, you couldn't post here because you would have been not aloud to learn basic qualities of life, only because of your gender.
That is an assumption based on no fact nor does it has credibility.
Reply

rav
01-11-2007, 04:23 AM
Gender aparthied? That is a new one term to use against Islam. lol.
The term is not meant to be used against Islam. Islam in my understanding ofthe religion does not say women should be forbiden from learning to read or write.

Therefore, the term is not anti-islam at all, but anti-taliban.

That is an assumption based on no fact nor does it has credibility.
Oh really? Well here is the situation with schools:

AFGHANISTAN'S Taliban Islamic movement announced the closure of all female private schools and vocational centres yesterday, accusing them of being un-Islamic.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...7/ai_n14151583

Taliban Ignorance Regarding Female Education


According to the recent reports a girls' school was set on fire by the Taliban rebels in Logar Province. This inhumane action is a big enmity against education and female students. Taliban who claim to be good Muslims are committing crimes which are against the Islamic thoughts because in the Islam religion it is an assumption that men and women seek knowledge, and burning schools are the biggest ignorance of the Taliban. It is their own thoughts and it is not related to the Islam religion at all. Our country needs educated males and females in order to rebuild our country. We need educated females in different life processes. We need female doctors, engineers, teachers in order to treat, teach and rebuild our country because females form half of our society and they have equal rights like males.

Some non-Muslim people think that in the Islamic religion the female education is forbidden, which is completely wrong. The Taliban follow an old culture which is not related to Islam. Taliban doesn't follow some instructions of Islam religion. For example, in the Islam religion there is freedom of speech for everyone, knowledge for males and females; Islam prohibits the killing of innocent people from any religion like Muslim, Christian, Hindu. Islam says if you save the life of a person it means you saved the lives of whole humanity and if you kill someone it means you killed the humanity. But the Taliban and Al Qaeda still kill pro-government civilians and aid workers which is completely wrong. In my opinion there is a specific organization behind this that wants to bring illiteracy to Afghan society.
http://afghanwarrior.blogspot.com/20...ng-female.html


Taliban shuts more Afghan schools

BBC News, May 18, 2001
By Afghanistan correspondent Kate Clark

Six schools run by a Turkish Islamic group have been shut down in Afghanistan. In a country where the state education system is suffering from a chronic lack of resources, the Turkish schools were rare centres of educational excellence. The group said problems emerged when the Taleban demanded control of their finances. Some 2,000 pupils attended the six Turkish schools, which were free. They had a curriculum which was strong in science and languages as well as religion and they were well resourced.
Lack of resources
Almost uniquely in Afghanistan, each school had a laboratory and a library. A representative for the schools said they had been ready to accept many of the Taleban's demands - that teachers should grow long beards, for example, and pupils wear turbans - but he said they could not agree to hand over their budget to the Taleban. He said the Taleban had wanted all the Turkish teachers to leave the country, leaving just one official who would hand the budget over to the Taleban education ministry for it to distribute. The representatives said they were faced with no choice but to close the schools. The Taleban may try to keep them running using Afghan teachers. But without proper resources they are likely to deteriorate to the level of the rest of the state education system. Parents and teachers there complain that there is hardly any funding for salaries or books and that each year the curriculum becomes more and more weighed down by religious subjects.
Expense for poor
The Taleban has also ordered all students in private English and computer courses to wear turbans, the headdress that the Taleban says is an Islamic tradition. At the start of the year, they ordered all state sector pupils beyond grade three to wear turbans, a considerable expense for poorer families. Computer and English students in Kabul said the religious police had visited their classrooms, threatening to expel students and close down any school which defied the order.
http://www.rawa.org/shut.htm
Reply

Skillganon
01-11-2007, 04:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
The term is not meant to be used against Islam. Islam in my understanding ofthe religion does not say women should be forbiden from learning to read or write.

Therefore, the term is not anti-islam at all, but anti-taliban.
and who said they forbid earning, reading and writing about Islam?

Nor does that give an excuse to invade and hunt them down in the pursuit of worldy/political gain and by means of everything that is forbidden and against Islam.
Reply

rav
01-11-2007, 04:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
and who said they forbid earning, reading and writing about Islam?

Nor does that give an excuse to invade and hunt them down in the pursuit of worlfy gaib and by means of everything that is forbidden, against Islam.
The Taliban said that.

<H2>Taliban Ignorance Regarding Female Education


According to the recent reports a girls' school was set on fire by the Taliban rebels in Logar Province. This inhumane action is a big enmity against education and female students. Taliban who claim to be good Muslims are committing crimes which are against the Islamic thoughts because in the Islam religion it is an assumption that men and women seek knowledge, and burning schools are the biggest ignorance of the Taliban. It is their own thoughts and it is not related to the Islam religion at all. Our country needs educated males and females in order to rebuild our country. We need educated females in different life processes. We need female doctors, engineers, teachers in order to treat, teach and rebuild our country because females form half of our society and they have equal rights like males.

Some non-Muslim people think that in the Islamic religion the female education is forbidden, which is completely wrong. The Taliban follow an old culture which is not related to Islam. Taliban doesn't follow some instructions of Islam religion. For example, in the Islam religion there is freedom of speech for everyone, knowledge for males and females; Islam prohibits the killing of innocent people from any religion like Muslim, Christian, Hindu. Islam says if you save the life of a person it means you saved the lives of whole humanity and if you kill someone it means you killed the humanity. But the Taliban and Al Qaeda still kill pro-government civilians and aid workers which is completely wrong. In my opinion there is a specific organization behind this that wants to bring illiteracy to Afghan society.

# posted by Waheed @ 13:26

http://afghanwarrior.blogspot.com/20...ng-female.html
</H2>
Reply

rav
01-11-2007, 04:32 AM
and who said they forbid earning, reading and writing about Islam?

Nor does that give an excuse to invade and hunt them down in the pursuit of worlfy gaib and by means of everything that is forbidden, against Islam
Your Taliban said this!!!!


A War on Schoolgirls

Unable to win on the battlefield, the Taliban are fighting to prevent half the country's children from getting an education.

Zalmai for Newsweek
Up in Flames: Taliban torched this school to stop girls from learning
By Ron Moreau and Sami Yousafzai
Newsweek


June 26, 2006 issue - Summer vacation has only begun, but as far as 12-year-old Nooria is concerned, the best thing is knowing she has a school to go back to in the fall. She couldn't be sure the place would stay open four months ago, after the Taliban tried to burn it down. Late one February night, more than a dozen masked gunmen burst into the 10-room girls' school in Nooria's village, Mandrawar, about 100 miles east of Kabul. They tied up and beat the night watchman, soaked the principal's office and the library with gasoline, set it on fire and escaped into the darkness. The townspeople, who doused the blaze before it could spread, later found written messages from the gunmen promising to cut off the nose and ears of any teacher or student who dared to return.

The threats didn't work. Within days, most of the school's 650 pupils were back to their studies. Classes were held under a grove of trees in the courtyard for several weeks, despite the winter chill, until repairs inside the one-story structure were complete. Nearby schools replaced at least some of the library's books. But the hate mail kept coming, with threats to shave the teachers' heads as well as mutilate their faces. Earlier this month, NEWSWEEK visited and talked to students and faculty on the last day of classes. Nooria, who dreams of becoming a teacher herself, expressed her determination to finish school. "I'm not afraid of getting my nose and ears cut off," she said, all dressed up in a long purple dress and headscarf. "I want to keep studying."

Schoolgirls need that kind of courage in Afghanistan. Unable to win on the battlefield, the Taliban are trying to discredit the Kabul government by blocking its efforts to raise Afghanistan out of its long dark age. They particularly want to undo one of the biggest changes of the past four years: the resumption of education for girls, which the Taliban outlawed soon after taking power in 1996. "The extremists want to show the people that the government and the international community cannot keep their promises," says Ahmad Nader Nadery of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC). Today the Ministry of Education says the country has 1,350 girls' schools, along with 2,900 other institutions that hold split sessions, with girls-only classes in the afternoon. (Coeducation is still forbidden.) More than a third of Afghanistan's 5 million schoolchildren are now girls, compared with practically none in early 1992. In the last six months, however, Taliban attacks and threats of attacks have disrupted or shut down more than 300 of those schools.

Most of the closures have been in the far south, where the Taliban are strongest, but schools are also getting hit in areas that used to be relatively safe, like the fertile river valleys of Laghman province. The rock-walled compound where Nooria attends classes is one of six schools for girls in the province that have been torched so far this year. The damage at two of them was so bad that they remain closed. In nearby Logar province, arsonists have struck 10 sister schools—all within 50 miles of Kabul. "People are extremely frightened," says Palwasha Shaheed Kakar, the AIHRC representative in neighboring Nangarhar province, where at least eight other schools have burned. "These extremists need to attack only one or two schools to send a strong message."

The girls' school in Haider Khani village, just up the main road from Mandrawar, has suffered a sharp drop in attendance since January, when masked gunmen forced their way in and torched the place. Before the attack, up to 80 percent of the families in Haider Khani were sending their daughters to school, according to the principal, Fazal Rabi. An American military Provincial Reconstruction Team quickly repaired the damage and reopened the school. Even so, the principal reckons that only 40 percent of the village's preteen girls came back, and only 10 percent of the teenagers. Parents dread what might happen on the walk to school. Teachers get scared, too. Since the Mandrawar attack, Nooria's teacher, Farida, has traveled to and from school every day wearing a burqa and escorted by a male relative. "Otherwise I fear my nose and hair will be cut off," she told NEWSWEEK.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13392086/site/newsweek/
Reply

Skillganon
01-11-2007, 04:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
The Taliban said that.

[B]</H2>
I don't believe everything that is attributed to the taliban, nor I take it as sure knowledge, nor I take it as any legitimacy of a war against them.
Reply

rav
01-11-2007, 04:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
I don't believe everything that is attributed to the taliban, nor I take it as sure knowledge, nor I take it as any legitimacy of a war against them.
Alright buddy, everything ll the proof, all your fellow muslim sisters saying the Taliban wouldnt let them learn how to read are liars... your always right... :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes
Reply

Skillganon
01-11-2007, 04:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
Alright buddy, everything ll the proof, all your fellow muslim sisters saying the Taliban wouldnt let them learn how to read are liars... your always right... :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes
I think you do not get the point. Taking the means that is against the Quran and the sunnah regardless if you are for or not for taliban is a seriouse crime.

So bringing in tidbit information on how bad was the taliban and how good now is they way of kufr does not have and credibility in Islam or amongts muslims upon the sunnah.
Nor bringing in their past blundars and not mentioning the cultural and social aspect as well as past regime.

Now if anyone goes to afghanistan and oppose the current goverment and their allies in this war, will be deemed taliban. So I give them my support aslong as it is against open kufr.
Reply

rav
01-11-2007, 04:52 AM
So bringing in tidbit information on how bad was the taliban and how good now is they way of kufr does not have and credibility in Islam or amongts muslims upon the sunnah.
Alright, so I am not a Muslim so in your opinion I have no credibility. How about the muslim girl who says she wants to go to school but the Taliban said no because of her gender?

More conspiracies?
Reply

Skillganon
01-11-2007, 05:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
Alright, so I am not a Muslim so in your opinion I have no credibility. How about the muslim girl who says she wants to go to school but the Taliban said no because of her gender?

More conspiracies?
and how about another person from the taliban say yes?

Secondly even if they said no, I really do not know why exactly the said is it related to the time, circumstance, safety and social condition?

Other thing to note is their is no exact infra-structure for education and schools. Considering the many wars and past regime they went through e.t.c

Importantly the invasion of the west in afghanistan is nothing got to do with women in afghanistan. e.t.c it is for their own political, strategical gain.

Ultimately they fear if the taliban is successful than in time they will be successful of becoming a state that is in governance of full shariah and a one that will not be so compliance towards western powers.

I really do not think that a full governance that applies Islam (shariah law which is part of it) will not come without mistakes and blundars and hardship considering many thing and most importantly ignorance or culture.

Next taking the way of the current goverment and their Lords and Protectors is against Islam. That should be enough to oppose them even if some muslims love to see anything (any governance) other than the way of Islam succeeding. They are clearly in the wrong.

A muslim's loyalty is towards Allah(s.w.t), his messenger and believers e.t.c not towards anything else.
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Dawud_uk
01-11-2007, 09:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
:sl:
the taliban only protected and helped those who were on their side. most of the pashtuns and pathans were on the taliban side, not much of them were harmed. If they had left the country with Ahmah Shah Massoud, he would have done something about Afghanistan following the Islamic shariah for he was a religious man and wanted his country, our country, to be under the influence of the Quran, sunnah and shariah...wait a minute:? ..why would the taliban want that?...they just continued fighting against him, they like their ways of governing under a cultural basis.
:w:
assalaamu alaykum sister,

ahmad shah masood was undoubtably a brave and cunning commander but one who was killed legitimately, he was offered peace numerous times by the taliban but kept refusing.

you know as far as i am aware he is the only defence minister in the history of the world to flattern whole suburbs of his own capital with artillary fire as he and other warlords fought over power?

he was also the commander of rapists and murderers who terrorised the people. the taliban were fare, if you practiced islam you were protected, even the couple of jews in kabul were protected but if you were a non practicing muslim then yes pressure would be applied to you to confirm.

a man is known by his friends and look at the friends and allies of ahmad shah masood in what the west termed the northern alliance? bandits and rapists, men who were so low like general dostrum who changed sides repeatedly depending on his interest.

ahmad shah masood is also accused by some afghanis of striking a truce with the soviets to allow free movement through the land he controlled in exchange for him and his people being left alone.

all the above are not the actions of a good muslim but a nationalist, as he refused peace and refused to allow afghanistan to be reunited under such circumstances he is a legitimate target no matter what his previous bravery in the early part of the soviet jihad.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-11-2007, 09:43 AM
Hello dawud_uk, you wrote:

Quote:
i do not know the full circumstances, but as the sources is RAWA, a kufr supporting organisation then i would not take anything they say as reliable, if they told me it was daytime i would look out of the window to check and expect it to be black outside.
Really, does Islam teach that? If so, you have explained a lot.


peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

God commands us in the Quran to varify all information that comes to us from 'Fasiqoon' meaning open evil doers.

RAWA are a maoist organisation who wish to impose their athiest idiology upon the muslim people of afghanistan, i think the taliban were too lenient with them but i have read their english website and it is clear their actions and beliefs are kufr (disbelief), but Allah Alim (God knows best) on their status before him.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-11-2007, 09:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
Alright, so I am not a Muslim so in your opinion I have no credibility. How about the muslim girl who says she wants to go to school but the Taliban said no because of her gender?

More conspiracies?
i wouldnt say you have no credability, you are a person of the book.

salah ud deen when he was liberating palastine from its previous occupation took the word of a christian women against his own muslim soldier and had him executed for rape.

but RAWA and others like them are a different matter.

Abu Abdullah
Reply

Erundur
01-11-2007, 02:28 PM
:salamext:


format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum sister,

ahmad shah masood was undoubtably a brave and cunning commander but one who was killed legitimately, he was offered peace numerous times by the taliban but kept refusing.
So a suicide attempt was a justification for his death?


you know as far as i am aware he is the only defence minister in the history of the world to flattern whole suburbs of his own capital with artillary fire as he and other warlords fought over power?
One of which were the Taliban...

he was also the commander of rapists and murderers who terrorised the people.
Evidence?

the taliban were fare, if you practiced islam you were protected, even the couple of jews in kabul were protected but if you were a non practicing muslim then yes pressure would be applied to you to confirm.
So were Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists under Massoud. There was more of a trade and daily dealings happening in the North then in the Capitol of Kabul under the Talib rule.

a man is known by his friends and look at the friends and allies of ahmad shah masood in what the west termed the northern alliance? bandits and rapists, men who were so low like general dostrum who changed sides repeatedly depending on his interest.
And the Taliban weren't Bandits and rapists? Dostum was also part of the Taliban he changed later on...

ahmad shah masood is also accused by some afghanis of striking a truce with the soviets to allow free movement through the land he controlled in exchange for him and his people being left alone.
False rumour.


assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
:sl:
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-11-2007, 03:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
:salamext:


:sl:
assalaamu alaykum brother,

you are very blinded and unfortunetely you are now just arguing from a position of ignorance of the facts.

not even the enemies of the taliban make the allegations you do, the taliban dismantled the road blocks, and the only allegations of rape against them is when they took some women as slaves after executing their men folk for rebelling against the islamic state and if you accuse them of rape for that you are accuse the sahabah also.

the taliban rose to destroy the warlords, all over afghanistan they moved to destroy those who fought over and destroyed their nation and one of these was ahmad shah masood. yet he was by far not the worst hence why he was offered peace so often but yet he refused.

so yes the killing of ahmad shah masood was justified, the means is a matter of debate but his killing was justified totally and i have no issue with it.

brother, you havent seemed to have read even the posts here nevermind done a more extensive search before trying to debate and as such i will not entertain you any longer by debating with you when you have no intention of even looking up the most basic facts for yourself and looking into this issue.

may Allah swt guide which ever of us is incorrect and keep us all upon the straight path, ameen!

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

MTAFFI
01-11-2007, 07:10 PM
interesting poll results
Reply

Hijrah
01-11-2007, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
Hijra, you wrote:


Oh, if everyone had your mindset than there would be no "truth" or "fact" left in this entire universe.

Hello al_imaan_786, you wrote:


I assume there were females who were on their side, and what did they do other than not let them go to school to learn how to read or write? The Taliban ran a gender apartheid.

Therfore, if you were living under the Taliban, as a female, you couldn't post here because you would have been not aloud to learn basic qualities of life, only because of your gender.

Hello dawud_uk, you wrote:


Really, does Islam teach that? If so, you have explained a lot.
buddy, i was being sarcastic:omg:
Reply

Erundur
01-12-2007, 03:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum brother,

may Allah swt guide which ever of us is incorrect and keep us all upon the straight path, ameen!

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
:salamext:

We both agree to disagree.


:sl:
Reply

Skillganon
01-12-2007, 06:08 AM
May Allah(s.wt) make us successful agianst from the open enemy to him and save us from the evil that comes from us. May Allah(s.w.t) make us successful against them and be victorious with our "effort", Ameen,
Astigfirullah if I made any mistake.
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-17-2007, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum sister,

ahmad shah masood was undoubtably a brave and cunning commander but one who was killed legitimately, he was offered peace numerous times by the taliban but kept refusing.


:salamext:
The Taliban wanted power...They asked Ahmad Shah Massoud for control over the Afghan troops, government positions, etc., Massoud refused cuz he couldn't just give away what belong to the government. An example of how the Taliban tried to take over Afghanistan is if a person invades your house by the name of the shariah' and controls everything you do, I'm sure no one would like that....They(meaning the afghan channel) were showing 2 women wearing a burqah in a store and one of the Talib's was beating them up in public....They also allowed many of the older women to tell their experiences under the Taliban rule, which was not a pleasant tale.

And I almost forgot, they showed one of the Taliban leaders in an interview with an Afghan host. The Talib had statues and other artifacts brought from Afghanistan. I thought they said that it was haram to keep statues, that's why they blew up the Buddha in Bamiyan....(Maybe he's opening a museum:rollseyes)....when he was asked why he kept the statues and the Buddha statue was brought up, the Talib replied, "It's not like it belongs to your dad, so why do you care?....... If I don't keep them, who will?" (Excuses)
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-18-2007, 07:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786


:salamext:
The Taliban wanted power...They asked Ahmad Shah Massoud for control over the Afghan troops, government positions, etc., Massoud refused cuz he couldn't just give away what belong to the government. An example of how the Taliban tried to take over Afghanistan is if a person invades your house by the name of the shariah' and controls everything you do, I'm sure no one would like that....They(meaning the afghan channel) were showing 2 women wearing a burqah in a store and one of the Talib's was beating them up in public....They also allowed many of the older women to tell their experiences under the Taliban rule, which was not a pleasant tale.

And I almost forgot, they showed one of the Taliban leaders in an interview with an Afghan host. The Talib had statues and other artifacts brought from Afghanistan. I thought they said that it was haram to keep statues, that's why they blew up the Buddha in Bamiyan....(Maybe he's opening a museum:rollseyes)....when he was asked why he kept the statues and the Buddha statue was brought up, the Talib replied, "It's not like it belongs to your dad, so why do you care?....... If I don't keep them, who will?" (Excuses)


assalaamu alaykum sister,

one talib goes a bit wrong and keeps a statue and you blame the whole movement? what about the thousands raped by the militia of ahmad shah masood?

why do you even call them a government army? does a militia become an army just because it now puts on a uniform one day? seems they are just the same as the afghan army today, both are responsible for setting up road blocks and robbing passerby, once this becomes common worse crimes at the road blocks and in towns and cities will be committed as they have been doing and before you know it even the non taliban afghanis will be calling for them to return and bring back shariah.

look, examine your deen in more depth, and not from the wishy washy scholars being promoted in america, i mean the real deen as taught by the companions of the prophet Muhammad saws, examine those religious movements throughout islamic history and you will see that none of them were perfect, all make mistakes.

yet the overall movement was correct in its aims, and some of them succeeded and some failed. insha'allah this one will succeed because it is certain they will not stop fighting until they do.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

hayaa__786
01-18-2007, 02:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
:sl:
I was thinking that many people are happy that the Taliban were driven out of Afghanistan while many other think the Taliban can bring peace there.
I'm Afghan-American and from my point of view, I'm happy that the Taliban are no longer there. The afghans went through enough torture.

What does everyone here think?
:w:

:sl:

tat is so true sister.. i know wat u mean... n i love u...:D

:w:
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-18-2007, 04:26 PM
Dawud_uk
what about the thousands raped by the militia of ahmad shah masood?
proof?

yet the overall movement was correct in its aims, and some of them succeeded and some failed. insha'allah this one will succeed because it is certain they will not stop fighting until they do.
Allah doesn't let the dhalim succeed.

hayaa__786
tat is so true sister.. i know wat u mean... n i love u...
what a place to say it (u could have called me up), lol....i luv u too
Reply

Skillganon
01-19-2007, 10:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786

Allah doesn't let the dhalim succeed
Assalamu alaikum sis and other brothers and sisters.

As a note:
First success & failure is decided by Allah(s.w.t), wheter they are dhalil or not.
Secondly how may battle the believers have failed? they have failed and succeeded throughtout Islamic History even during the prophet time. Victory and Failure is evident in the Quran, this is something that is decided by Allah(s.w.t).
The difference between a believer failing and those who desbelieve is one is in the hell fire and the other is in Heaven regardless of them failing and thus dying.

Secondly one must note that one cannot support and give alliance to something that is contradictory Islam especially when it is apparent. This should be a reason enough to oppose it unless I got it wrong and one wan't to tell me that afghanistan is the land of mushrikoon and should be ruled by as such.
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Akil
01-20-2007, 01:04 PM
The Taliban ruthlessly murder fellow Muslims who disagree with their politics and their fake sharia even today. I am sad for Islam that so many seem to believe these butchers should pickup their brutal repression and domination of Afghanistan where they left off.
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-20-2007, 01:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Akil
The Taliban ruthlessly murder fellow Muslims who disagree with their politics and their fake sharia even today. I am sad for Islam that so many seem to believe these butchers should pickup their brutal repression and domination of Afghanistan where they left off.
im sorry but ive heard a lot about them and i really dont think thats true. Some evidence might change my mind..
Reply

Akil
01-20-2007, 01:24 PM
Any “evidence” I give you over the internet can be easily dismissed as information from biased sources. What I know I know from people on the ground.

How teachers and students and anyone who is from or influenced by the west or doesn’t believe in the convoluted ideology of the Taliban is under siege and threat of death regardless of whether or not they are Muslim, especially in the outlaying areas not controlled by the US or the Afghani forces.

The Taliban (what is left of it) are thugs masking themselves with a pseudo-Islamic ideology. Divide and dominate, propagate ignorance and poverty and no one will have the means to resist you, survival of the fittest, that is what lies in the core beliefs of this so called Muslim group.
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-22-2007, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
im sorry but ive heard a lot about them and i really dont think thats true. Some evidence might change my mind..
what evidence would that be that can change your mind?...
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Erundur
01-22-2007, 03:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Secondly one must note that one cannot support and give alliance to something that is contradictory Islam especially when it is apparent.
:salamext:

Agreed, so I do not give alliance to the Talibs nor do I give alliance to the current government.

:sl:
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Al_Imaan
01-22-2007, 09:41 PM
^^I agree.
Reply

guyabano
01-23-2007, 09:11 AM
Are the Taliban the right choice for Afghanistan ?

Definetely NO
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
01-24-2007, 09:43 AM
I hate propaganda! this is definitly the right thread to make this statement in!
Reply

mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 06:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
:sl:
I was thinking that many people are happy that the Taliban were driven out of Afghanistan while many other think the Taliban can bring peace there.
I'm Afghan-American and from my point of view, I'm happy that the Taliban are no longer there. The afghans went through enough torture.

What does everyone here think?
:w:
You talk like you knew sister the situation of Afghanistan before the Taliban had arrived. I apologize brothers and sisters for being so late. For those of you on this board who bashed against my brothers and sisters who defended the Taliban, Bring your proof against me. I have lived in Afghanistan, i have seen the Areas before and after the Taliban.

Now lets see how you people fair against Someone who has been there.

First of All, The Taliban were the only government of this current time period to Execute TRUE Sharia based on the Quran and the Sunnah.

For the Keltoi person who worried about the Historical Treasures. The taliban repeatedly ask the Entire World for Aid, for you people to preserve their statues. Yet no country cared. Then Mullah Muhammad Omar Amir Al Mumineen Decided that these statues are Idiolatry and should be destroyed. And btw it was Saudi Arab and UAE engineers who helped destroy them.

Also for those who claim about that Ahmed Shah Masood was a Lion, May Allah swt guide you to the right path or May He Punish you severely for such a Blasphemous statement. He was a commander who sought money and help from Europe against the Sharia of Allah swt. Anyone who engages Muslims who are attempting to Establish Sharia, should be dealt with Appropriately.

And the brother who confused Ahmed Shah Masood with Dostum, And the sister who asked for Proof. My relatives were butchered under Dostums commands who led an alliance with Ahmed Shah Masood. I know Plenty and accounted many of Dostums soldiers who stated that they were ordered to rape the women and children so that they would be embarrassed and leave the land to neighboring Pakistan so the Northern Alliance can gain territory. And the Northern Alliance butchery of over 5,000 Taliban.

Back to the Statues, dont worry Keltoi im not finished with you yet. Do you care about the children of Afghanistan? No obviously not since your concerned about the statues. Look at what happened currently in Iraq, all the treasures of Baghdad lost, WHERE IS THE WORLD OUTCRY? Yet when statues are destroyed in Afghanistan, the world condemns a group for executing a group of Muslims establishing Allah swt deen.

No Brother or sister or Non-Muslims On this Board has the RIGHT or the AUDACITY to Bash or Disrespect the Taliban especially the ones that have never entered Afghanistan.

Many afghans were upset over the Invasion of Afghanistan, You think the Afghans are happy of the USA? The thousands of women and children killed because of USA Bombing that is ok? What about when the USA sent missiles to Afghanistan in 1998 that killed 19 women and children? The taliban did not attack. 1 Mumeen is worth more to me than All of the kafirs in this world.

And some say this is the punishment of Allah swt against the Taliban, La Illah a Ilallah wa Muhammadu Rasoolilah, Because of this war. The taliban now have been cleansed of their false members and now Al Hamdulillah because of this war the taliban have now realized who are true to establishing the Deen.

Where are those who bash the Taliban? Where are you hiding? Do not think you can hasten your attacks against the Taliban, Now you will recieve JUST Answers that are the truth.

Yes, A women was shot in the Soccer Stadium. Why? For killing her husband and sleeping with her son.

Yes, women were beaten in public, only a few instances and that is where women did not take specific precautions for completely clothing themselves.
Yet when one talib executes a law the kafirs and some muslims blame the Taliban? What is this? When a NYPD Officer shoots a man 50 times, Does the world know and blame the Whole United States Police force?

Yes, The Sharia of Afghanistan was set in Afghanistan. Perhaps it wasnt technologically developed, why? Because only 3 nations recognized the Taliban, and the rest of the world did not care about the women children and men butchered before the taliban had arrived. They had no money from the world, they put their trust in Allah swt. And in that trust, suddenly education started to appear for BOTH WOMEN AND MEN AND GIRLS AND BOYS, those of who say it wasnt for women BRING YOUR EVIDENCE, MY relatives who are females were being taught AND TEACHING. The taliban are not against education, they only want Sharia Education


Do Any of you people know what Afghanistan was like before the Taliban?

I kid you not, but those of you who say the Taliban are wrong for Afghanistan, May Allah swt guide you to the right path or send you to Hellfire because that is your eternal home for rejecting the Command of Allah swt to establish Sharia.

Salam Alaikam Rahmatullah Wabaraktu

And btw to any brother or sister or Kafir on this board who bash the Taliban, Ask me anything and i will refute your claims.
Reply

SilentObserver
01-30-2007, 06:55 AM
The Taliban were oppressive and it is good that they are no longer in power. Now the only thing preventing the country from seeing things get better faster is the Taliban.
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Dawud_uk
01-30-2007, 07:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
The Taliban were oppressive and it is good that they are no longer in power. Now the only thing preventing the country from seeing things get better faster is the Taliban.
i am sure the nazis said the same thing regarding the french resistence.
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Skillganon
01-30-2007, 01:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Erundur
:salamext:

Agreed, so I do not give alliance to the Talibs nor do I give alliance to the current government.

:sl:
Actually I was more pointing the finger at the current u.s backed afghani goverment, and their clear kuffar way and those who support them with their mouth and their heart.

I rather support the taliban or any resistance group (they don't neccessarily have to be called taliban) aslong as they are fighting afainst the allied troops and the client goverment.
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 01:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Actually I was more pointing the finger at the current u.s backed afghani goverment, and their clear kuffar way and those who support them with their mouth and their heart.

I rather support the taliban or any resistance group (they don't neccessarily have to be called taliban) aslong as they are fighting afainst the allied troops and the client goverment.
Regardless of their actions right?
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Skillganon
01-30-2007, 01:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Regardless of their actions right?
You can say the same for the allied troops and the current goverment.
You must also take into account the worldy affair in other muslims country. Unfortunetly we got some ill-informed muslims out their and some greedy ones.

If one person did something wrong, you don't condemn the rest or forsake the strive towards Islam
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 05:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Regardless of their actions right?
What Actions? What have the Taliban done wrong to this world? Who have they harmed? Which Nation did they attack? 9/11 was even suspected to be done by OBL, Suspected remember with no evidence except for a Videotape, in which that Videotape was clearly rebutted by those who have seen it and met with OBL.

The taliban even offered OBL to the US government in an ISLAMIC Court provided that the USA bring evidence, yet they ordered the Taliban to offer OBL. The taliban never attacked anyone, they condemned the attacks of 9/11, who did they attack? If you know your politics of the United Nations, No Government is allowed to attack a State Government provided that there is no Terrorists groups running the State Government. Taliban did not have anything to do with Al Qaeda, they're is no such thing as Al Qaeda. It is Just Arab Mujahideen and a few other incriments of Different brothers from other parts of the world, that united to create a Global Islamic front to Establish Sharia.

If you are Christian, You are so Ignorant enough to believe your Bible is the truth when it is full of contradictions. If you are not even firm on your belief, How can you challenge others on how they rule and theyre tactics?

Who drops bombs that kills Innocent people women, children and men?
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 06:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
What Actions? What have the Taliban done wrong to this world? Who have they harmed? Which Nation did they attack? 9/11 was even suspected to be done by OBL, Suspected remember with no evidence except for a Videotape, in which that Videotape was clearly rebutted by those who have seen it and met with OBL.

The taliban even offered OBL to the US government in an ISLAMIC Court provided that the USA bring evidence, yet they ordered the Taliban to offer OBL. The taliban never attacked anyone, they condemned the attacks of 9/11, who did they attack? If you know your politics of the United Nations, No Government is allowed to attack a State Government provided that there is no Terrorists groups running the State Government. Taliban did not have anything to do with Al Qaeda, they're is no such thing as Al Qaeda. It is Just Arab Mujahideen and a few other incriments of Different brothers from other parts of the world, that united to create a Global Islamic front to Establish Sharia.

If you are Christian, You are so Ignorant enough to believe your Bible is the truth when it is full of contradictions. If you are not even firm on your belief, How can you challenge others on how they rule and theyre tactics?

Who drops bombs that kills Innocent people women, children and men?
A fake videotape...no such thing as Al-Qaeda...and you call me ignorant for being a Christian? Is that all you wish to add to this discussion? Oh yes, you did have somewhat of a point to your post with the supposed UN rules that forbid a country to attack another unless terrorists run the government. Of course those who followed that situation knew quite well who was running that government and who was being sheltered there. Any nation in the world attacked by an organization being protected by a national government would have taken the same action. Take your internet jihad to the library, perhaps you will come up with something that contains a bit more substance than pointless religious attacks and conspiracy.
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Al_Imaan
01-30-2007, 06:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
If one person did something wrong, you don't condemn the rest or forsake the strive towards Islam
one person?....they all stopped Afghanistan from growing...they wanted Afghanistan so they can expand their own territory....why would someone take over a country by the name of the sharia'h and use it for other issues?...and brother mahdi.....my grandparents and uncles were at the time of the taliban too....so they have seen the areas before and after the taliban too....
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 06:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
A fake videotape...no such thing as Al-Qaeda...and you call me ignorant for being a Christian? Is that all you wish to add to this discussion? Oh yes, you did have somewhat of a point to your post with the supposed UN rules that forbid a country to attack another unless terrorists run the government. Of course those who followed that situation knew quite well who was running that government and who was being sheltered there. Any nation in the world attacked by an organization being protected by a national government would have taken the same action. Take your internet jihad to the library, perhaps you will come up with something that contains a bit more substance than pointless religious attacks and conspiracy.

Protection and Shelter are two different things. I even ask you to bring you evidence, you have brought nothing, You criticized my brothers and attacked them with your words, Now don't feel as if your Victory is Near through your ignorance of assumptions of believing what the Afghan people want or what the Taliban did. I'm not taking any Jihad, I am simply asking you to bring your evidence. And your wrong Study your laws on the United Nations, Regardless of being protecting or sheltered The Taliban was not terrorist state sponsored.

And off course i disrespect you for your belief, you have disrespected the Commands of Allah swt and what my brothers have done in Afghanistan. Who are you? Do not think i am the type of Mumeen that stands here smiling for every word you say bashing my brothers and sisters.
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 06:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
one person?....they all stopped Afghanistan from growing...they wanted Afghanistan so they can expand their own territory....why would someone take over a country by the name of the sharia'h and use it for other issues?...and brother mahdi.....my grandparents and uncles were at the time of the taliban too....so they have seen the areas before and after the taliban too....
Let them see the areas sister, What do i have to do with it? Are you a Poshtun where are you from in Afghanistan? Kabul or Kandahar?
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Kittygyal
01-30-2007, 06:14 PM
salamualikum.
i voted for NO because Afghan is a nice place, nice people Pushtons (patans) :X
Ma'assalama
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 06:16 PM
Lol Sister, the Taliban are Patans Lol
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 06:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Protection and Shelter are two different things. I even ask you to bring you evidence, you have brought nothing, You criticized my brothers and attacked them with your words, Now don't feel as if your Victory is Near through your ignorance of assumptions of believing what the Afghan people want or what the Taliban did. I'm not taking any Jihad, I am simply asking you to bring your evidence. And your wrong Study your laws on the United Nations, Regardless of being protecting or sheltered The Taliban was not terrorist state sponsored.

And off course i disrespect you for your belief, you have disrespected the Commands of Allah swt and what my brothers have done in Afghanistan. Who are you? Do not think i am the type of Mumeen that stands here smiling for every word you say bashing my brothers and sisters.
My disrespect for you grows by the post, so we will get nowhere on that line of thought. As for "evidence", what more evidence do you need than Bin Laden himself taking credit for these actions? Not to mention the money trail which led right back to Afghanistan. Of course you will dismiss all of this with your conspiracy rants. As for my disrespect for your "brothers and sisters", you are quite right. I don't respect the Taliban or anything they stand for. They adhere to a medieval ideology of death and cultural stagnation. If that is what you want, move out of Brooklyn and join your heroes in Pakistan. I'm sure you would be much happier.
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Kittygyal
01-30-2007, 06:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Lol Sister, the Taliban are Patans Lol
salamualikum.
i know that Akhi chup sha Marah :X
but the Talibans were there yonks in Afgani were't they:? :confused: better if they like stay away isn't it Mahdi...:?
Ma'assalama
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 06:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
My disrespect for you grows by the post, so we will get nowhere on that line of thought. As for "evidence", what more evidence do you need than Bin Laden himself taking credit for these actions? Not to mention the money trail which led right back to Afghanistan. Of course you will dismiss all of this with your conspiracy rants. As for my disrespect for your "brothers and sisters", you are quite right. I don't respect the Taliban or anything they stand for. They adhere to a medieval ideology of death and cultural stagnation. If that is what you want, move out of Brooklyn and join your heroes in Pakistan. I'm sure you would be much happier.
If your disrespect grows for me more, ALLAH AKBAR, then my Dawah is being correct because that is how true Dawah is spread

Oh You Muslims Remember what the Kuffar did with Ibrahim As when they threw him in the fire, but Allah swt protected him.

Remember when they attempted to crucify Isa AlayhiSalam and they Created blasphemy saying he is the Son of God, May Allah swt guide those who slander the nabii and Allah swt to the right path or send them to Hell for Such a Evil Saying

And Remember when the Oppression began against Rasoolillah sws, Yet Islam was victorious. Remember Muslim brothers and sisters, that when your Dawah is given, and the kuffar start to reject you, then your Dawah is Correct. For the believers are to be hated by the Kuffar for they're dawah.
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imaad_udeen
01-30-2007, 06:23 PM
The Taliban are bad news for Afghanistan.

http://www.rawa.org/yakw-r.htm

The Taliban allowed criminals like Al Qaeda to plot and murder innocent people from within their borders. The Taliban massacred religious minorities in Afghanistan and treated women worse than swine.
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Kittygyal
01-30-2007, 06:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Protection and Shelter are two different things. I even ask you to bring you evidence, you have brought nothing, You criticized my brothers and attacked them with your words, Now don't feel as if your Victory is Near through your ignorance of assumptions of believing what the Afghan people want or what the Taliban did. I'm not taking any Jihad, I am simply asking you to bring your evidence. And your wrong Study your laws on the United Nations, Regardless of being protecting or sheltered The Taliban was not terrorist state sponsored.

And off course i disrespect you for your belief, you have disrespected the Commands of Allah swt and what my brothers have done in Afghanistan. Who are you? Do not think i am the type of Mumeen that stands here smiling for every word you say bashing my brothers and sisters.
salamualikum.
i don't get it Marrah grr am behind.

so tell me is it good for them Talibans to come to Afghani:?
Ma'assalama
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Kittygyal
01-30-2007, 06:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
The Taliban are bad news for Afghanistan.

http://www.rawa.org/yakw-r.htm

The Taliban allowed criminals like Al Qaeda to plot and murder innocent people from within their borders. The Taliban massacred religious minorities in Afghanistan and treated women worse than swine.
salamualikum.
thats weird so basically they are bad to be visiting Afghani again:?
Ma'assalama
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 06:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kittygyal
salamualikum.
i don't get it Marrah grr am behind.

so tell me is it good for them Talibans to come to Afghani:?
Ma'assalama
Tell me Sister is it good to Establish Sharia?
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Al_Imaan
01-30-2007, 06:26 PM
mahdisoldier19
If your disrespect grows for me more, ALLAH AKBAR, then my Dawah is being correct because that is how true Dawah is spread

Oh You Muslims Remember what the Kuffar did with Ibrahim As when they threw him in the fire, but Allah swt protected him.

Remember when they attempted to crucify Isa AlayhiSalam and they Created blasphemy saying he is the Son of God, May Allah swt guide those who slander the nabii and Allah swt to the right path or send them to Hell for Such a Evil Saying

And Remember when the Oppression began against Rasoolillah sws, Yet Islam was victorious. Remember Muslim brothers and sisters, that when your Dawah is given, and the kuffar start to reject you, then your Dawah is Correct. For the believers are to be hated by the Kuffar for they're dawah.
your just sayin that to make urself happy....in this case...the talibans r the oppressor and the afghans are being oppressed.
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Kittygyal
01-30-2007, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Tell me Sister is it good to Establish Sharia?
salamualikum.
ya allah what does that mean? :embarrass
Ma'assalama
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
your just sayin that to make urself happy....in this case...the talibans r the oppressor and the afghans are being oppressed.
Are you of Afghan descent by the way?
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 06:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
your just sayin that to make urself happy....in this case...the talibans r the oppressor and the afghans are being oppressed.
So bring your evidence if you are truthful
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 06:32 PM
Why is it that virtually every Afghan that I've ever discussed this issue with feel the Taliban were an oppressive and abusive regime, but all the Westernized Muslim adolescent males hold them up to be the pinnacle of virtue? I think this also goes back to another thread on this forum about radicalism amongst Muslim youth in the West.
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Kittygyal
01-30-2007, 06:32 PM
salamualikum.
people can we like talk in a poliet manner please inshallah, where not going to get nowhere if your gonna acusse one another of liers hence stop piking on brother 'Mahdi..', it will be great if you can bring forward 'evidence' if not then inshallah just briefly some up your saying && then say 'opinion' next to it then so we know it's what you think && there's no evidence because am getting confused here :embarrassfear your lord people
Ma''assalama
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2007, 06:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Why is it that virtually every Afghan that I've ever discussed this issue with feel the Taliban were an oppressive and abusive regime, but all the Westernized Muslim adolescent males hold them up to be the pinnacle of virtue? I think this also goes back to another thread on this forum about radicalism amongst Muslim youth in the West.
Lol This is funny i Am An Afghan yet i am not a young male that is Westernized, so what does this make me?
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 06:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Lol This is funny i Am An Afghan yet i am not a young male that is Westernized, so what does this make me?
I would rather not answer that question....
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Al_Imaan
01-30-2007, 07:41 PM
yes keltoi, I am afghan....an afghan who cares about my religion as well as my homeland...
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 08:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
yes keltoi, I am afghan....an afghan who cares about my religion as well as my homeland...
I understand. It would seem some people will defend any group or any action as long as it is supposedly done in the name of Islam.
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Cognescenti
01-30-2007, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
What Actions? What have the Taliban done wrong to this world? Who have they harmed? Which Nation did they attack? 9/11 was even suspected to be done by OBL, Suspected remember with no evidence except for a Videotape, in which that Videotape was clearly rebutted by those who have seen it and met with OBL.

The taliban even offered OBL to the US government in an ISLAMIC Court provided that the USA bring evidence, yet they ordered the Taliban to offer OBL. The taliban never attacked anyone, they condemned the attacks of 9/11, who did they attack? If you know your politics of the United Nations, No Government is allowed to attack a State Government provided that there is no Terrorists groups running the State Government. Taliban did not have anything to do with Al Qaeda, they're is no such thing as Al Qaeda. It is Just Arab Mujahideen and a few other incriments of Different brothers from other parts of the world, that united to create a Global Islamic front to Establish Sharia.
When the Taliban were content to blow up a few Budhist statues, suppress a few million Afghani women, stone a few alleged adulterers and saw off a few hands in the soccer stadium....ehhh...big deal.

When they conspired to ally themselves with the nihilist, Al Quaeda international murderers, they committed a very serious strategic error. Oh well. Too bad for the Taliban. Their main problem is they were born in the wrong century..or better, the wrong millenium.
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Skillganon
01-30-2007, 09:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
your just sayin that to make urself happy....in this case...the talibans r the oppressor and the afghans are being oppressed.
Yep we all got it. Taliban's are the oppressors and Bush and theire allies (current gov) are the liberators.:rolleyes:

Anyway brother Mahdisoldier19. What happened to all the oppressorss before taliban?
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 09:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Yep we all got it. Taliban's are the oppressors and Bush and theire allies (current gov) are the liberators.:rolleyes:

Anyway brother Mahdisoldier19. What happened to all the oppressorss before taliban?
I don't think she said anything about Bush, she stated her opinion as an Afghan on the Taliban regime. Think about this honestly. Would you have rather lived in Afghanistan under the Taliban or Great Britain? Do try to answer truthfully.
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Skillganon
01-30-2007, 09:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I don't think she said anything about Bush, she stated her opinion as an Afghan on the Taliban regime. Think about this honestly. Would you have rather lived in Afghanistan under the Taliban or Great Britain? Do try to answer truthfully.
It's her opinion and not neccessarily right.

I mean someone might even say that the rightly guided caliphate was oppressive for implementing shariah.
Secondly I really do not take everything from the new's or some muslims say about each other.

Secondly she is glad that the allied has got rid of Taliban or anyone fighting for Islam and implementing Shariah. You might of tell me your are glad of the western goverment is killing muslims in other worlds, (and don't say it is different.)

It is not good to take glee in seeing a group that she may have "think" oppressive, but was actually trying to implement Islam.

For seeing a supposedly a group that is oppressive fail by taking the way of debelief is not actually being a genious in sight of Allah(sw.t).

First she has to establish it from the Quran and the sunnah. All the action against the taliban and all the methods they implement they use against them.

It's like embracing debelief to see a group that "they think" is oppressive. e.g. It's like the way media potrays Hijaab as oppressive.

Muslim are rather required to support the believers than the desbelievers, and no amount of saying I am an afghani can help.

-------------

Next strategically it is stupid to make Afghan as another kuffar client regime.

So I support the taliban, or anyone who is sincere and are trying to fight for Islam in afghan even though the desbelievers will label them with name's that supports their interest.

I frankly find any muslims who support the desbelievers and their cohorts lacking in intellect and short sighted.
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Keltoi
01-30-2007, 09:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
It's her opinion and not neccessarily right.

I mean someone might even say that the rightly guided caliphate was oppressive for implementing shariah.
Secondly I really do not take everything from the new's or some muslims say about each other.

Secondly she is glad that the allied has got rid of Taliban or anyone fighting for Islam and implementing Shariah. You might of tell me your are glad of the western goverment is killing muslims in other worlds, (and don't say it is different.)

It is not good to take glee in seeing a group that she may have "think" oppressive, but was actually trying to implement Islam.

For seeing a supposedly a group that is oppressive fail by taking the way of debelief is not actually being a genious in sight of Allah(sw.t).

First she has to establish it from the Quran and the sunnah. All the action against the taliban and all the methods they implement they use against them.

It's like embracing debelief to see a group that "they think" is oppressive. e.g. It's like the way media potrays Hijaab as oppressive.

Muslim are rather required to support the believers than the desbelievers, and no amount of saying I am an afghani can help.
What makes your opinion more valuable than hers?
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Al_Imaan
01-30-2007, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Yep we all got it. Taliban's are the oppressors and Bush and theire allies (current gov) are the liberators.:rolleyes:

Anyway brother Mahdisoldier19. What happened to all the oppressorss before taliban?
ur saying it as if im glad that Americans are in Afghanistan rite now....im not....look at all the salons they have opened and all the women are worrying about how they look in public....the afghans use their freedom wrongly...but torture isnt any better than wats going on now...the people in Afghanistan today prefer what is going on now with all the freedom than being tortured by the Taliban....but i dont accept any of them....afghans should be governed by the correct form of shariah, which excludes abusive acts and is not associated with any cultural beliefs...
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Skillganon
01-30-2007, 09:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
ur saying it as if im glad that Americans are in Afghanistan rite now....im not....look at all the salons they have opened and all the women are worrying about how they look in public....the afghans use their freedom wrongly...but torture isnt any better than wats going on now...the people in Afghanistan today prefer what is going on now with all the freedom than being tortured by the Taliban....but i dont accept any of them....afghans should be governed by the correct form of shariah, which excludes abusive acts and is not associated with any cultural beliefs...
You should be careful of all the information that comes out. I can make a monkey jump hoops and make these people believe it was a talibans.

Let's give a name to a new group (does not hold to mistakes of talibans) because it has been tarnished.
Let's call it "The muslim who believe in Islam" they srive for Islam. They fight the american allied troops out of afghan as they are commanded by Allah(s.w.t) they try to establish a shariah based rule as they are commanded.

What you will naturally expect again is the same words, they are oppressive, they are extremist. You will hear story of this group bombing innocent people e.t.c if they can somehow arrange it or get away with the story e.t.c
(Do you know why? Because I will do the same thing if I was a them, it is a good strategy)


Sis one cannot expect a shariah rule to be implemented straight away without hurdles and misshaps on the way or some mistake.

I apologies if I made you seem the other way, but strategically it's a big mistake and the kafiroon, will use it to it's advantage. You can see the result now. They are laughing at your face, and they only needed to use your voice to justify it.
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mahdisoldier19
01-31-2007, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
ur saying it as if im glad that Americans are in Afghanistan rite now....im not....look at all the salons they have opened and all the women are worrying about how they look in public....the afghans use their freedom wrongly...but torture isnt any better than wats going on now...the people in Afghanistan today prefer what is going on now with all the freedom than being tortured by the Taliban....but i dont accept any of them....afghans should be governed by the correct form of shariah, which excludes abusive acts and is not associated with any cultural beliefs...
What People? Find me these people, And please do not bring up Kabul or any Northern Areas of Afghanistan. The land of the Northern Alliance and the land of Munafiqeen.

And what is the correct form of Shariah may i ask you? Are you a Scholar? No, Do you know any Scholars that support the Taliban? If Not, Ive heard of 3 of them in Infact LEGITMATE Scholars who support the Taliban.

Sheikh. Hamud Ibn Uqla Ash-Shu”aybi
Sheikh. Sulayam Ibn Nasir Al-Ulwan
Sheikh. Ali Ibn Khudhayr Al-Khudhayr

Who all Issued Fatwas Regarding That they established True Sharia.
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lavikor201
01-31-2007, 03:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
yes keltoi, I am afghan....an afghan who cares about my religion as well as my homeland...
As was mentioned before if under the Taliban you lived, you would not be speaking to us because since your a women, the Taliban felt it was against islam or there way of life for you to learn how to write. They just wanted you like a robot who would take commands
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mahdisoldier19
01-31-2007, 03:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
As was mentioned before if under the Taliban you lived, you would not be speaking to us because since your a women, the Taliban felt it was against islam or there way of life for you to learn how to write. They just wanted you like a robot who would take commands
I know plenty of people who have relatives who are female that were being education and teaching in certain medical areas in Southern Afghanistan. Your Claim is Completely False.
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Al_Imaan
01-31-2007, 02:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
I know plenty of people who have relatives who are female that were being education and teaching in certain medical areas in Southern Afghanistan. Your Claim is Completely False.
no...his clam is not completely false...is this why they burned down the schools and later pages of the Quran were found....did the Prophet(saw) force people to become muslim or follow the religion?....everything that the Taliban did was by force...
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Dawud_uk
01-31-2007, 02:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
no...his clam is not completely false...is this why they burned down the schools and later pages of the Quran were found....did the Prophet(saw) force people to become muslim or follow the religion?....everything that the Taliban did was by force...
learn your deen sister,

go ask a scholar of hanafi fiqh, is it permissable to force a women to cover herself?

you will find the answer is yes,

is it permissable to force men to pray in jammat or place them under house arrest?

you will find the answer is yes according to hanafi fiqh,

ask it is allowable to force cinemas to close and stop the selling of haram items or items used for haram and you will find the answer is yes.

yes the taliban were a little harsh sometimes where necessary, but check your facts before accusing them of not following shariah.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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mahdisoldier19
01-31-2007, 06:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
no...his clam is not completely false...is this why they burned down the schools and later pages of the Quran were found....did the Prophet(saw) force people to become muslim or follow the religion?....everything that the Taliban did was by force...
What Schools did they burn down? Bring me one piece of Evidence that supports your claim. If you knew Your history on the situation in Afghanistan you wouldn't be talking so deeply about the educational system.

How can you have an educational system setup in less than 5 years when the world does not care about you, nor does the world give you anything? Do you expect Afghanistan to have the most perfect education in less than 5 years? Do you even know that people could not leave they're homes, females and young children were not able to leave their homes because of the stressful situation before the taliban. You start speaking about education? Sister, what talk is this? Where is your Support, even if our brothers and sisters did have errors, it is our JOBS as Muslims to ally ourselves with them rather than the kuffar. Did Muhammad sws align himself with jews before the Muslims? No he was constantly staying with the Muslims before any other group.

What do you people who bash against the Taliban do not understand?

Do you not see that women and children were not even able to leave their homes because of the danger of the situation in Afghanistan before the Taliban had arrived.

Where is your Iman? No other country attempted to Establish a Sharia like Afghanistan did by the taliban, yet you expect it to happen in less than 5 years? You expect education and everything else to flourish when no one seems to care? except for 3 states in the whole of the Muslim countries in this world?

These brothers and sisters live their life on the Sunnah and the Quran, I do not expect any Kafir to understand this because that is why they are a Kafir, the Kuffar will always have enmity against the Muslims.

Also, your claim is competely refuted again because in the center of Kandahar there were sikhs living under the Taliban regime who were not forced to become Muslim.

It took all these other superpowers Years to develop, yet everyone expects Afghanistan to develop in 5 years? From 10 years of war and 5 years of civil war? I did not even get into the planted land mines in the school grounds issue, nor the book issues of being torn.
Reply

lavikor201
01-31-2007, 08:52 PM
What Schools did they burn down? Bring me one piece of Evidence that supports your claim.
MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan -- Unable to combat the rash of arson attacks across the country, the government is enlisting the public's help to safeguard schools and children.

Mohammad Gul used to dream of becoming a teacher. The 13-year-old attended a high school in the Maarja district, in the troubled southern province of Helmand. He worked hard to get good grades so that he would be able to go to university.

That was before his school burned down last year - torched by insurgents seeking to undermine the provincial authorities.

"I do not think I will fulfill my dream," Mohammad said. "If the government rebuilds the school, the Taliban will just burn it down again. That is how we all feel. The government has provided tents for the school, but we are afraid that we will be burned along with the tents."

Mohammad Gul is just one of thousands of children whose futures are being jeopardized by the rising tide of attacks on schools in Afghanistan.

Over the past year, more than 100 schools have been burned down. This threatens to reverse one of the key achievements of President Hamid Karzai's administration.

Throughout the country, but especially in the southern provinces, schools that opened to great fanfare after the fall of the Taliban are being quietly closed because parents and pupils fear retribution from armed insurgents.

Most people blame the Taliban, citing the fundamentalists' opposition to secular schooling, especially for girls. In statements made by various spokesmen, the Taliban have denied carrying out these attacks.
http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php...4-021435-4304r

Islamic extremists burned down a school for girls south of the capital and distributed letters threatening to kill anyone working for the U.S.-backed Afghan government, a senior Afghan military official said Friday.

The Abu Sofian school, which was housed in a tent, was torched on Wednesday night in Logar province, 30 miles south of Kabul, said Gen. Hatiqulluh Luddin, a regional military commander. The school was closed for a monthlong holiday at the time and nobody was hurt.
He said authorities were still investigating the incident but blamed unnamed extremists in nearby villages.

Luddin said that another tented girls' school was burned down in a neighboring district two weeks ago.

The Abu Sofian school, which has about 250 students, will reopen as planned on Saturday. Schools across the country have been closed because of hot weather.

The former Taliban regime prohibited girls from attending school as part of its drive to establish a "pure" Islamic state, before it was ousted by a U.S.-led military force in late 2001. There is still opposition among some in Afghanistan's Pashtun ethnic majority to education for girls.

Taliban remnants and their allies have recently stepped up attacks on government targets - particularly in eastern and southern Afghanistan - in an apparent drive to undermine the administration of President Harmid Karzai.

Luddin said that in the past week, authorities in Logar have found 30 fliers - sometimes distributed by different extremist groups - threatening anyone who cooperates with his government.
One letter, claiming to be from the Taliban, said that the group was active all over the country and did not want girls' schools. It threatened to kill anyone who worked with the government.

Another letter from a group calling itself Mujahedeen Message said: "Nobody should work with the Americans. It is an infidel government, whose workings should die." Luddin echoed frequent claims made in Afghanistan and abroad that Taliban fugitives have found a haven in neighboring Pakistan, which backed the regime until the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...m=21457&Disp=4
KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN – Just after midnight on Jan. 8, four armed men jumped over the wall of the Kabael Primary School in Loyawala, just outside of Kandahar, and began to spread 40 liters of kerosene inside the classrooms that regularly host 1,350 students.

The caretakers, who were unarmed, could do nothing but watch, and shiver in the night. The masked men waited just long enough for the fires to engulf the primary school, and then they left, bringing yet another bit of terror to the lives of Afghan villagers here.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0202/p06s01-wosc.html

In a new report, “Lessons in Terror: Attacks on Education in Afghanistan,” Human Rights Watch estimates that in 2005 and the first half of 2006 there were more than 204 attacks on teachers, students and schools, mostly in the south but also in previously secure areas of northern provinces. Threatening “night letters,” warning girls against attending school, are distributed in mosques, schools and along routes taken by students and teachers. “Girls not educated today are the missing teachers, administrators and policymakers of tomorrow,” concludes the Human Rights Watch report.
http://msmagazine.com/fall2006/schoolsout.asp

More reading:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...8-1702,00.html
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-1-2006_pg7_45


It seems you are clueless of the situation!
Reply

lavikor201
01-31-2007, 08:58 PM
A War on Schoolgirls

Unable to win on the battlefield, the Taliban are fighting to prevent half the country's children from getting an education.


Zalmai for Newsweek
Up in Flames: Taliban torched this school to stop girls from learning

By Ron Moreau and Sami Yousafzai
Newsweek


June 26, 2006 issue - Summer vacation has only begun, but as far as 12-year-old Nooria is concerned, the best thing is knowing she has a school to go back to in the fall. She couldn't be sure the place would stay open four months ago, after the Taliban tried to burn it down. Late one February night, more than a dozen masked gunmen burst into the 10-room girls' school in Nooria's village, Mandrawar, about 100 miles east of Kabul. They tied up and beat the night watchman, soaked the principal's office and the library with gasoline, set it on fire and escaped into the darkness. The townspeople, who doused the blaze before it could spread, later found written messages from the gunmen promising to cut off the nose and ears of any teacher or student who dared to return.

The threats didn't work. Within days, most of the school's 650 pupils were back to their studies. Classes were held under a grove of trees in the courtyard for several weeks, despite the winter chill, until repairs inside the one-story structure were complete. Nearby schools replaced at least some of the library's books. But the hate mail kept coming, with threats to shave the teachers' heads as well as mutilate their faces. Earlier this month, NEWSWEEK visited and talked to students and faculty on the last day of classes. Nooria, who dreams of becoming a teacher herself, expressed her determination to finish school. "I'm not afraid of getting my nose and ears cut off," she said, all dressed up in a long purple dress and headscarf. "I want to keep studying."

Schoolgirls need that kind of courage in Afghanistan. Unable to win on the battlefield, the Taliban are trying to discredit the Kabul government by blocking its efforts to raise Afghanistan out of its long dark age. They particularly want to undo one of the biggest changes of the past four years: the resumption of education for girls, which the Taliban outlawed soon after taking power in 1996. "The extremists want to show the people that the government and the international community cannot keep their promises," says Ahmad Nader Nadery of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC). Today the Ministry of Education says the country has 1,350 girls' schools, along with 2,900 other institutions that hold split sessions, with girls-only classes in the afternoon. (Coeducation is still forbidden.) More than a third of Afghanistan's 5 million schoolchildren are now girls, compared with practically none in early 1992. In the last six months, however, Taliban attacks and threats of attacks have disrupted or shut down more than 300 of those schools.

Most of the closures have been in the far south, where the Taliban are strongest, but schools are also getting hit in areas that used to be relatively safe, like the fertile river valleys of Laghman province. The rock-walled compound where Nooria attends classes is one of six schools for girls in the province that have been torched so far this year. The damage at two of them was so bad that they remain closed. In nearby Logar province, arsonists have struck 10 sister schools—all within 50 miles of Kabul. "People are extremely frightened," says Palwasha Shaheed Kakar, the AIHRC representative in neighboring Nangarhar province, where at least eight other schools have burned. "These extremists need to attack only one or two schools to send a strong message."

The girls' school in Haider Khani village, just up the main road from Mandrawar, has suffered a sharp drop in attendance since January, when masked gunmen forced their way in and torched the place. Before the attack, up to 80 percent of the families in Haider Khani were sending their daughters to school, according to the principal, Fazal Rabi. An American military Provincial Reconstruction Team quickly repaired the damage and reopened the school. Even so, the principal reckons that only 40 percent of the village's preteen girls came back, and only 10 percent of the teenagers. Parents dread what might happen on the walk to school. Teachers get scared, too. Since the Mandrawar attack, Nooria's teacher, Farida, has traveled to and from school every day wearing a burqa and escorted by a male relative. "Otherwise I fear my nose and hair will be cut off," she told NEWSWEEK.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13392086/site/newsweek/
Reply

MTAFFI
01-31-2007, 09:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19

Where is your Support, even if our brothers and sisters did have errors, it is our JOBS as Muslims to ally ourselves with them rather than the kuffar. Did Muhammad sws align himself with jews before the Muslims? No he was constantly staying with the Muslims before any other group.


These brothers and sisters live their life on the Sunnah and the Quran, I do not expect any Kafir to understand this because that is why they are a Kafir, the Kuffar will always have enmity against the Muslims.
Tell me, who are the Kuffar to you? The people who do not believe in God or the people that are not Muslim?
Reply

Cognescenti
01-31-2007, 09:21 PM
Wow..Lavikor. I would say you pretty convincingly refuted his claim. Of course, it is possbile the night watchman fell asleep and burned the school down with his cigarette...then tied himself up just to cover his tracks.



Mahdisoldier:


Here is hoping you weren't singed too badly in Lavikor's barrage.
Reply

SilentObserver
02-01-2007, 05:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
What Schools did they burn down? Bring me one piece of Evidence that supports your claim.
Insurgents torch newly-built refugee school
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...8-1702,00.html

Taliban burn down three Afghan schools
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-1-2006_pg7_45

Afghan schools face torch
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0202/p06s01-wosc.html

Taliban use beheadings and beatings to keep Afghanistan's schools closed
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle1171369.ece

Taliban Burn Girls' School
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/020656.htm

Afghanistan: Militants Are Targeting Schools
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle...416d865f3.html

Afghanistan's hidden war
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5220514.stm

Taliban continue to sow fear
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/28/news/kabul.php

Taliban's efforts to get girls out of school
http://www.ungei.org/infobycountry/index_828.html
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-01-2007, 05:10 AM
Assalam Alaikam

Ya Ahu Al Ladeena Amanu, again the kuffar attempt to Lie against your fellow Mujahideen.

Afghan schools face torch
Attackers tried to burn a girls' school Monday in the latest attack on education.
By Scott Baldauf | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN – Just after midnight on Jan. 8, four armed men jumped over the wall of the Kabael Primary School in Loyawala, just outside of Kandahar, and began to spread 40 liters of kerosene inside the classrooms that regularly host 1,350 students.

The caretakers, who were unarmed, could do nothing but watch, and shiver in the night. The masked men waited just long enough for the fires to engulf the primary school, and then they left, bringing yet another bit of terror to the lives of Afghan villagers here.
(Photograph)
'This is our country; these children are from our soil. If we don't help them learn, who will?' - Mohammad Sadeq, school caretaker
SCOTT BALDAUF
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"For 30 years ,we have been burned by these flames, this fighting," says one of the caretakers, Mohammad Sadeq, himself a former resistance fighter against the Soviets. "But this is our country; these children are from our soil. If we don't help them learn, who will?"

Across southern Afghanistan, night raids like the one in Loyawala are eroding one of the few solid gains that Afghanistan has made since the fall of the Taliban: education. By threatening or killing teachers and principals, and burning down schools, insurgents have found a method for bringing the war home to ordinary Afghans, and to weaken their faith in a government that appears unable to protect them and their children. The repercussions are just now being felt.

"The reason they attack schools is that they are a soft target," says Engineer Abdul Quadar Noorzai, regional manager of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission in Kandahar. "They get a lot of attention when they burn a school. The news goes up to the sky. The sad thing is that we didn't have good schools before this happened. Now it is like putting salt in our wounds."

Kandahar is certainly not the only Afghan province where such tactics are being used. Monday night, six armed people tried to burn a girls school in Laghman Province, but the village awoke and the attackers fled. Three primary schools were burned in Helmand Province on Friday.

But with eight schools burned in the current school year, Kandahar is the center of antigovernment activity. Government officials blame the Taliban for the attacks, something that Taliban spokesmen deny. But no matter who the culprit is, the government is struggling to stop the burnings.

"All over the world, there is no protective police force for schools," says Gov. Asadullah Khalid, the new governor of Kandahar. "This is an easy target for them. We have taken some measures, but I can tell you we expect the people to feel responsible and to take further steps themselves" to protect their schools.

Hayatullah Rifiqi, the education chief for Kandahar Province, says that Kabul has been cooperative in adding police to districts where attacks have taken place. Currently, his main task is getting the far-flung district of Maruf to open up its 42 schools, which currently remain shut because of threats.

"Before and after Eid [an Islamic feast day in January], some schools were burned, some leaflets were distributed in schools, some principals were killed, guards and caretakers were killed, and people have been threatened," says Mr. Rifiqi. "But even now, in remote districts, teachers are teaching. They tell me 'The only thing that will take Afghanistan out of its troubles is education, and whatever price we pay, we have to do it.' "

Taliban spokesman Mohammad Hanif denies that the Taliban are behind the attacks on schools.

"The Taliban are supporters of education and learning," says Dr. Hanif, speaking to the Monitor by mobile phone from an undisclosed location in Afghanistan. "The people who are doing this are enemies of Islam, and we condemn them. Burning schools is not allowed under Islam."

New Afghan plan

In a five-year blueprint released Wednesday, Afghanistan - working with foreign donors - pledged to:

• Reduce the number of people living on less than $1 per day by 3% each year.

• Shut down all armed militias by 2007.

• Provide electricity to 25% of rural homes and 65% of urban homes.

• Reduce infant and maternal mortality by 20% and 15% respectively by 2010.

Source: The Associated Press

In the village of Loyawala, the burned school has gotten a fresh coat of paint, and new chairs and desks for the students. UNICEF has donated large tents for classrooms to replace the tents burned by the insurgents.

Some teachers in Loyawala say they doubt the Taliban were behind the attack. Instead, they blame the government of Pakistan for taking advantage of Afghanistan's weakness.

Noting that the arsonists didn't allow caretakers to take copies of the Koran out of the classrooms before burning them, Loyawala principal Abdul Nazir says, "I don't think this was the Taliban, they don't burn Koran. Actually you have a lot of Pakistanis arrested with explosives these days. This is what they do. It's not coming from anywhere else but from Pakistan."

Abdul Aziz, the headmaster, agrees. "Pakistan doesn't want Afghanistan's education to go higher," he says, arguing that Pakistan relies on Afghans as laborers and consumers. "They want us to remain poor, illiterate, and dependent."

In the Arghandab district, east of Kandahar city, six schools have been burnt and two of these remain shut down because of insecurity. But the district head of education, Maiwand Khan, says that he is working with tribal elders to reopen the schools, and to get villagers to take more responsibility.

"It's difficult even if the government helps us out," says Mr. Khan. "But unless we persuade the people in the village that they should send their children to school, and that teachers should go back to work, and the villagers need to protect the schools themselves, then no student and no teacher will dare to go there."

Again the Kaffir who posted information that the taliban deny education by stating it was men "MASKED", First of all the taliban do not wear masks.




Layeha (book of rules) for the MujahideenFrom the highest leader of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan.

Every Mujahid must abide by the following rules:

1) A Taliban commander is permitted to extend an invitation to all Afghans who support infidels so that they may convert to the true Islam.

2) We guarantee to any man who turns his back on infidels, personal security and the security of his possessions. But if he becomes involved in a dispute, or someone accuses him of something, he must submit to our judiciary.

3) Mujahideen who protect new Taliban recruits must inform their commander.

4) A convert to the Taliban, who does not behave loyally and becomes a traitor, forfeits our protection. He will be given no second chance.

5) A Mujahid who kills a new Taliban recruit forfeits our protection and will be punished according to Islamic law.

6) If a Taliban fighter wants to move to another district, he is permitted to do so, but he must first acquire the permission of his group leader.

7) A Mujahid who takes a foreign infidel as prisoner with the consent of a group leader may not exchange him for other prisoners or money.

8) A provincial, district or regional commander may not sign a contract to work for anon-governmental organization or accept money from an NGO. The Shura (the highest Taliban council) alone may determine all dealings with NGOs.

9) Taliban may not use Jihad equipment or property for personal ends.

10) Every Talib is accountable to his superiors in matters of money spending and equipment usage.

11) Mujadideen may not sell equipment, unless the provincial commander permits him to do so.

12) A group of Mujahideen may not take in Mujahideen from another group to increase their own power. This is only allowed when there are good reasons for it, such as a lack of fighters in one particular group. Then written permission must be given and the weapons of the new members must stay with their old group.

13) Weapons and equipment taken from infidels or their allies must be fairly distributed among the Mujahideen.

14) If someone who works with infidels wants to cooperate with Mujahideen, he should not be killed. If he is killed, his murderer must stand before an Islamic court.

15) A Mujahid or leader who torments an innocent person [I would like to see their definition of "innocence"; I'll wager it's pretty narrow--P] must be warned by his superiors. If he does not change his behaviour he must be thrown out of the Taliban movement.

16) It is strictly forbidden to search houses or confiscate weapons without the permission of a district or provincial commander.

17) Mujahideen have no right to confiscate money or personal possessions of civilians.

18) Mujahideen should refrain from smoking cigarettes.

19) Mujahideen are not allowed to take young boys with no facial hair onto the battlefield or into their private quarters [No mention of goats? Why is this rule necessary? Is the practice so widespread? Rather confirms some stereotypes--P].

20) If members of the opposition or the civil government wish to be loyal to the Taliban, we may take their conditions into consideration. A final decision must be made by the military council.

21) Anyone with a bad reputation or who has killed civilians during the Jihad may not be accepted into the Taliban movement. If the highest leader has personally forgiven him, he will remain at home in the future.

22) If a Mujahid is found guilty of a crime and his commander has barred him from the group, no other group may take him in. If he wishes to resume contact with the Taliban, he must ask forgiveness from his former group.

23) If a Mujahid is faced with a problem that is not described in this book, his commander must find a solution in consultation with the group.

24) It is forbidden to work as a teacher under the current puppet regime, because this strengthens the system of the infidels. True Muslims should apply to study with a religiously trained teacher and study in a Mosque or similar institution. Textbooks must come from the period of the Jihad or from the Taliban regime.

25) Anyone who works as a teacher for the current puppet regime must recieve a warning. If he nevertheless refuses to give up his job, he must be beaten. If the teacher still continues to instruct contrary to the principles of Islam, the district commander or a group leader must kill him.

26) Those NGOs that come to the country under the rule of the infidels must be treated as the government is treated. They have come under the guise of helping people but in fact are part of the regime. Thus we tolerate none of their activities, whether it be building of streets, bridges, clinics, schools, madrases (schools for Koran study) or other works. If a school fails to heed a warning to close, it must be burned. But all religious books must be secured beforehand.

27) As long as a person has not been convicted of espionage and punished for it, no one may take up the issue on their own. Only the district commander is in charge. Witnesses who testify in a procedure must be in good psychological condition, possess an untarnished religious reputation, and not have committed any major crime. The punishment may take place only after the conclusion of the trial.

28) No lower-level commander may interfere with contention among the populace. If an argument cannot be resolved, the district or regional commander must step in to handle the matter. The case should be discussed by religious experts (Ulema) or a council of elders (Jirga). If they find no solution, the case must be referred to well-known religious authorities.

29) Every Mujahid must post a watch, day and night.

30) The above 29 rules are obligatory. Anyone who offends this code must be judged according to the laws of the Islamic Emirates.

This Book of Rules is intended for the Mujahideen who dedicate their lives to Islam and the almighty Allah. This is a complete guidebook for the progress of Jihad, and every Mujahid must keep these rules; it is the duty of every Jihadist and true believer.Signed by the highest leader of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan (Editor's note: this Book of Rules was distributed initially to the 33 members of the Shura, the highest Taliban council, at their meeting during Ramadan 2006.)

That is what the Taliban do.

Taliban Says it Will Open Schools in Afghanistan
21 January 2007 | 13:58 | FOCUS News Agency
Article Link

Kandahar. The Taliban movement said Sunday it will open schools in areas under its control, despite waging an insurgency that last year saw scores of attacks on Afghanistan's students.
A spokesman told AFP the schools would open this year and follow a curriculum used during the 1996-2001 rule of the Taliban government.
"From March to July this year, the Taliban movement will open all the schools in the districts under their control," the man identifying himself as Taliban political spokesman Abdul Hai Mutmayn said in a statement read over the telephone.
"In the schools, all the textbooks and subjects which were being taught under the Taliban government will be taught. This will cost one million dollars and the Taliban movement will pay for that."
The spokesman did not say which districts were involved. "There are lots of districts in southern and southeastern Afghanistan where the government has no presence and we are in control," he said.
Taliban claims to control certain far-flung areas of Afghanistan are dismissed by military officials, who say they are only able to assert a presence for brief periods before being removed.
The movement regularly uses propaganda and threats in its campaign.
The Taliban government destroyed Afghanistan's already war-shattered education system.
It prevented girls from going to school and women from working, which meant most teachers had to give up their jobs.
Lessons were focused on the Taliban's extremist version of Islam.
Since it was toppled, the group has launched scores of bomb and arson attacks on schools, destroying many.
Education Minister Mohammad Hanif Atmar said in August suspected Taliban attacks had killed at least 41 teachers and students in the previous 12 months, and security concerns had forced 208 schools to close.
Educating Afghanistan's mostly illiterate population is a priority for the new government, but not for many rural Afghans struggling to get by, especially where girls are concerned.


Look at a Mujahids view of this war,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ogfXlp3Gf...elated&search=

Also what about the President Hamid Karzai in which his brother who is the biggest drug dealer in southern Afghanistan.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=b2F6FxOV2...elated&search=
( The truth about the Who really burn the Schools, burned by Karzais Government in which he states the Mujahideen do not burn schools)
Reply

SilentObserver
02-01-2007, 07:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
What do you people who bash against the Taliban do not understand?

Do you not see that women and children were not even able to leave their homes because of the danger of the situation in Afghanistan before the Taliban had arrived.
So, the Taliban were advocates of women's rights and girls right to an education I guess.

format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
again the kuffar attempt to Lie against your fellow Mujahideen
Actually, the reports most often are the accounts of afghan witnesses.
Don't like the news reports? Ok.
You seem to elude to the conspiracy theory that it is all an elaborate propaganda scheme against the taliban to maintain support for the ousting of the taliban.
So let's look at the Taliban through the eyes of women of Afghanistan.

Take note that the date of this writing is March 20, 2001, this evidence that the women were not happy before the taliban was ran off, and before the western media would have been engaged in any hypothetical anti-taliban propaganda.

'The Taliban do not accept women as a part of society'

The members of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) are struggling against vast odds, often risking their own lives for a democratic, non-fundamentalist and women-friendly regime in Afghanistan. In an exclusive interview with V K Shashikumar, Mehmooda of RAWA talks about the almost pathological misogyny of the Taliban, and of RAWA's struggle to survive

Women's rights have moved rapidly backwards into the unknown in Afghanistan under the Taliban militia's horrifically stringent rule. The ravages of three decades of continuous conflict, drought and disease has turned this hardy land into a nation of refugees, single mothers and orphans. Together, they make up a large portion of the country's considerable refugee population.

Women and children comprise a large percentage of the estimated 170,000 refugees who have poured into the poorly-equipped and overcrowded refugee camps in neighbouring Pakistan, since September last year. RAWA, based in Quetta, has been in the forefront of the women's movement in Afghanistan. It calls itself the only feminist anti-fundamentalist organisation of Afghan women".

Mehmooda outlines the reasons behind the almost pathological misogyny that underlies much of the Taliban's actions. "Most of the Taliban (cadres) have experienced sexual abuses by their seniors during their youth in the religious schools (madrasas). It may have created a kind of complex in them, which has made them so bestial towards women. It must be clear that these vale “Champions of Islam” are accustomed to raping young boys to satisfy their criminal lust."

What are the living conditions of women and children in Afghanistan today?

Life for women under fundamentalist regimes like the Taliban is terrible. The fundamentalists do not accept women as a part of society. Afghanistan is now a ghost country, and due to the heavy fighting and rising crime rates, women in the country are little more than zombies. They are not allowed to go for treatment, get education, or enjoy any entertainment. They are lashed on the streets for the strangest reasons and their hands and feet are cut off if they were to steal a loaf of bread.
The extremists have formed a state were women are seen as subhuman creatures, whose role is to satisfy men's sexual needs, procreate, and handle domestic affairs. Women are altogether deprived of an education, the right to work, and cannot leave the house without a male escort (usually a close relative). No woman can be treated or operated on by a male physician. They are forced to wear shapeless bags called burqas, in pale colours only, to completely cover their bodies. Not even their ankles or wrists may show. No make-up, heels that make a clicking sound, singing or laughing aloud is tolerated. These restrictions are imposed, because anything female is seen as tempting a man to depart from his duties to God. In their extreme dishonouring of Islam, even the windows of all homes have been painted, so that women cannot be seen from the outside. Women are not allowed to be photographed or filmed or printed in newspapers. These are just a rundown of their despotic limitations.

Women and female children are being killed in the name of honour, sold as cattle, forced into marriage, dying because of lack of basic healthcare, and doomed to a life of humiliation, servitude, ignorance and misery. Their potential is withering away in this dismal state. Quite frankly, instead of creating a pure, religious state, the Taliban is turning the people of Afghanistan into beggars.
How different were the lives of Afghan women before Taliban came to power?

In our opinion, there is not a big difference between the living conditions of women before and after the Taliban rule, and this is because of the fanatic and misogynistic nature of both the jihadis and the Taliban. All of them are enemies of women, democracy, education and progress. After the tragedy of April 28,1992, when the jihadi beasts perpetrated their aggression on Kabul and other cities, their depravity focused on raping women, girls and children. Leaders of different warring factions appear to treat the rape of women from vanquished populace as reward for their own "Islamic" soldiers. Some armed guards target women from ethnic minorities they regard as enemies. Several Afghan women have committed suicide to avoid being raped. Scores of Afghan women have been abducted and detained by Mujahideen groups and commanders and then used for sexual purposes or sold into prostitution. Young girls have suffered the same fate. Women and girls were not safe.
Why does the Taliban want to suppress and oppress women?

They think that by brutal treatment and intimidation, they can get rid of half our population. The Taliban are mostly illiterate. They are not taught social and natural sciences in religious schools. They only know how to exploit the verses of the Koran to justify their terrible atrocities. They are awfully backward, uncultured, uncivilised and completely alien to the good norms, values and achievements of the present era.

Most of the Taliban have experienced sexual abuses by their seniors during their youth in the religious schools. It may have created a kind of complex in them, which have made them so bestial towards women. It should be added that homosexuality is very much common among these "champions of Islam".

If religion is the cover for their suppression and oppression, then does Islam really sanction this?

The criminal Taliban and jihadis have their own interpretation of the tenets of Islam and, therefore, they could simply cover their brutalities by their desirable propagation of religion, which may not be sanctioned in Islam. (basically, islam does not support this)

If Islam does not sanction Taliban's brutal behaviour, could you please highlight the progressive ideas on women and their emancipation in Islam?

Religion should be regarded as a private and personal issue. Those who try to seek the resolution of everything, especially complicated social problems, through religion, are, in fact, misusing religion for their political end.

No doubt, there are many issues in Islam, particularly in connection with women, that are quite controversial. This may not make ordinary Muslims convert from Islam to any other religion. But when fundamentalists want to make laws on those points and then impose the laws through force and sword, people will resist it. It should be said here that in no time in their history have the Afghans been so disillusioned of religion since the coming to power of the criminal jihadis and Taliban.

The Taliban venomously attacks the image of modern woman. Just to disprove their point, name 10 highly successful women of Afghanistan, who have left a mark on your nation's contemporary history.

Meena, the founding leader of RAWA is the first conscious woman of Afghanistan who laid down her life for her ideals. Obviously, she is our inspiring heroine. Apart from some schoolgirls who were killed by the pro-Soviet puppet regime, there are many women in our ranks, who despite hardships have not given up and are staunchly fighting against all types of fundamentalists, for democracy…in my opinion, there are many who have left a mark, though not very visible, on our contemporary history. However, they are busy with anti-fundamentalist politics and it would not be safe to name them.

After all, men across all religions and in all countries and communities use scriptures, sacred texts and traditions to suppress women's empowerment. Why are the Talibs afraid of allowing women their rights? Do you think that the Talib are afraid that the women will be able to bring about a consciousness in the society to fight the evils of fundamentalism, which might then affect their rule?

That is right. The Taliban know that by suppressing and silencing women, they will get rid of half our population. Yes, the Taliban are afraid that our women will make miraculous initiatives if they are unchained.

We can also easily gauge the fundamentalists' fear of women's struggle from their cheap, vulgar and ridiculous attacks on RAWA. They cannot come up with any other ''reasoning'' towards us except reiterating that "RAWA is Maoist", "a group of prostitutes", "anti-Islam" and so on.

They have declared all RAWA members as enemies of the "Islamic emirate" and to be arrested wherever found out. Anybody found with (a copy of) Payam-e-Zan (Women's Message, a publication of RAWA) is enough for the conviction of the person, and she or he will be severely persecuted and will undergo torture

How has RAWA helped organise women in Afghanistan?

As an underground organisation struggling under the most barbaric fundamentalist regime in the world, RAWA is forced to further all its activities to raise political awareness of the women and get them organised, secretly. Even our social work is not open in Afghanistan. But as most of our women have experienced the bloody oppression of the jihadis and the Taliban, they understand our message easily; and despite harsh conditions, they are willing to resist. However, one of the greatest obstacles in their way is their terrible economic situation, which diminishes their burning will to fight.

The Taliban have drawn lessons from the fascist and criminal experiences of the KHAD (the Afghan secret service under the Soviet puppet regime), as well as jihadis, regarding suppression and controlling people. Therefore, fighting them is not an easy task, especially for the women.

Nevertheless, we are proud to be the only women's organisation that has not given up its engagement in organising our bereaved women.

What are the activities of RAWA inside and outside Afghanistan?

During the Soviet occupation, we were distributing anti-Soviet and anti-puppets leaflets, staging demonstrations and strikes in schools and universities, instigating the women to contribute in resistance war in any possible way, despite opposition from fundamentalists, running schools, a hospital, etcetera, for refugees, publishing and distributing Payam-e-Zan and so on.

It was in the course of such activities that a number of our activists were arrested in Kabul and underwent horrible tortures and some of them languished for about eight years in notorious prisons. Our founding leader, Meena, and her two aides were murdered at the hands of the KHAD agents and their fundamentalist accomplices in 1987.

After the fall of the puppet government and the invasion of the fundamentalist bands into Kabul, RAWA's focus has increasingly been on women's rights, human rights and exposition of the fundamentalists barbaric actions. (see RAWA activities: anti-fundamentalist defiance)

How is RAWA funded? Do expatriate Afghans help by giving donations?

The membership fee of our members, and donations from supporters in and outside Afghanistan is a major source of finance. We also generate some funds through selling carpets and other traditional handicrafts. The income from our publications, cassettes etc is also a source of income. In short, as an organisation deprived of any help from any government or non-governmental organisations (NGOs), RAWA is in a critical financial situation. The donation we have so far received is nothing in comparison to the great need for funds in and outside Afghanistan to run our projects in education, healthcare and income-generation fields.

How does RAWA generate public opinion in influential countries in the West?

Thanks to the Internet, we have succeeded to build a rather vast network in many Western countries and are very proud of our supporters in North America, Europe, and Australia, who are making a wonderful contribution to our cause.

We have also made trips to the USA, some European and South Asian countries to spread the word and talk about the crimes committed by the jihadis and Taliban.

What has the role of Pakistan been in helping Taliban?

It is an open secret that Taliban are a creation of Pakistan and the US, just as the jihadis are dependent on Russia, Central Asian Republics (CAR), Iran and India. However, we have always concentrated on exposing the real nature of all these fundamentalist bands that, in fact, have invited foreign powers to interfere and keep them alive. When there is a government based on democratic values in Kabul, no country will dare interfere.

What do the Pakistani women think of the Pakistani government's covert and overt help to Pakistan?


As far as our limited contacts show, almost all women are very critical of the Pakistani government's help to the fundamentalists in Afghanistan.

How do you involve Pakistani women in your programmes and activities, in order to pressurise the government of Pakistan?


We have been trying our best to keep in touch with Pakistani women's organisations, invite them to our events and participate in theirs. But, unfortunately, they are not in a position to pressurise the government of Pakistan to change its policies. They have their own colossal problems. They are victims of "honour killing", as the women of India are suffering from being killed for dowry. We understand their difficulties.

Are there any prominent Pakistani personalities who support your endeavours?

Fortunately, there are several Pakistani personalities, who support our endeavours among them: Asma Jehangir, Hina Jelani, Professor Mubarak Ali, Ahmed Bashir, Afrasiab Khattak, Marshal Asghar Khan, Syeda Abida Hussain, Mariana Babar, Neghat Said Khan, Mahnaz Rafi, to name some.

Despite the Taliban restrictions, RAWA still manages to run schools and bakeries and help in the upliftment of women. How do you manage to do that?


As an organisation with over 20 years of experience of underground work, RAWA is quite able to run its numerous home-based classes, literacy courses, some mobile teams, income generation projects, etc, in Afghanistan. The fascist conditions prevailing, especially in the recent two decades, have educated us to live and continue the hard struggle, even under a theocratic rule more criminal than, say, the terrorist regime of Iran.

How can Indian women's groups help RAWA's activities?

First and foremost, their uncompromising fight against their own fundamentalist forces would be a great help to RAWA. But specifically, they should create and strengthen their relationships with us, invite our representatives for speaking tours, cover our activities, write about the horrible situation in our country, collect funds and supplies for us. More importantly, they should try to pressurise the Indian government to withdraw its shameful recognition of the Rabbani-Masood and Co "government".

Any country claiming to be democratic should by no means support a handful of criminals, who were the starters of the religious fascist domination after the fall of the puppet regime.

Do you envisage at any point in time, the return of democracy and a unified government in Afghanistan?

It'll be difficult to predict something exactly. However, we have no doubt that Taliban's days are numbered. And if their foreign masters do not install their jihadi brothers, Afghanistan will have no option but to resort to democracy.

How have the women of Afghanistan ensured that the Taliban gets the message that there are pockets of courageous women who are resisting their efforts to reduce women to a status "worse than that of animals"?

I think they get the message through our voice in Pakistan and the world printing and electronic media, Payam-e-Zan and other publications, as well as our awareness efforts among the women. Also as mentioned, when we see wild and childish attacks on RAWA in the Taliban's newspapers (The Shariat and others), we know that they have heard RAWA's message.

http://www.rawa.org/tehelka.htm

and due to the heavy fighting and rising crime rates
Remember, this was under the taliban's rule. Wasn't it supposed to be better?
Reply

SilentObserver
02-01-2007, 07:24 AM
Lifting The Veil On Taliban Sex Slavery


Widow Shah Jan sits in an icy room with mud walls in a snowfield on the edge of Kabul. She wipes her tears with the edge of her grimy sweater as she recalls the day in August 1999 when the Taliban set fire to her home in the vineyards of the Shomali Plain and kidnapped her best friend, Nafiza. "The Taliban burst in with their guns and torches," says Shah Jan. "None of us even had time to put on our veils."

With the women stripped of their burkas, it was a simple task for the Taliban invaders to cull the young beauties. Nafiza was one of them. Green-eyed, with raven-black hair that grazed her waist, Nafiza had rushed to help Shah Jan get her three kids out of the burning house. A Taliban fighter spotted the woman with the emerald eyes. She was his prize. With the butt of his AK-47 rifle, he slammed Nafiza into the dust and dragged her, crying and pleading, to the highway. There, Arabs and Pakistanis of al-Qaeda joined the Taliban to sort out the young women from the other villagers. One girl preferred suicide to slavery; she threw herself down a well. Nafiza and women from surrounding villages, numbering in the hundreds, were herded into trucks and buses. They were never seen again.

Only now, two months after the Taliban's fall, are the dirtiest secrets of their persecution of Afghan women coming to light. The Taliban often argued that the brutal restrictions they placed on women were actually a way of revering and protecting the opposite sex. The behavior of the Taliban during the six years they expanded their rule in Afghanistan made a mockery of that claim. The United Nations and relief agencies picked up warning signals of these abuses from women refugees fleeing the conquering Taliban. Now it is clear from the testimony of witnesses and officials of the new government that the ruling clerics systematically abducted women from the Tajik, Uzbek, Hazara and other ethnic minorities they defeated. Stolen women were a reward for victorious battle. And in the cities of Kabul, Mazar-i-Sharif, Jalalabad and Khost, women victims tell of being forced to wed Taliban soldiers and Pakistani and Arab fighters of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, who later abandoned them. These marriages were tantamount to legalized rape. "They sold these girls," says Ahmad Jan, the Kabul police chief. "The girls were dishonored and then discarded."

In the mud-fortress villages above the Shomali vineyards, more than 600 women vanished in the 1999 Taliban offensive. Yet these abductions are considered such a great dishonor that the victims' families almost never mention them. Says Qadria Yasdon Parast, leader of Freedom Messengers, a Kabul women's rights group: "If you ask about the missing, they'll say, 'Our daughter's dead,' or that she's off married in Pakistan." Many of the women probably did end up in Pakistan--but were sold to brothels or kept as virtual slaves inside homes, say officials from relief agencies. None have come back. Even if they could escape, these women would probably calculate that their families would no longer welcome them.

The trail of the missing Shomali women leads to Jalalabad, not far from the Pakistan border. There, according to eyewitnesses, the women were penned up inside Sar Shahi camp in the desert. The more desirable among them were selected and taken away. Some were trucked to Peshawar with the apparent complicity of Pakistani border guards. Others were taken to Khost, where bin Laden had several training camps. The al-Qaeda Arabs had a hard time finding voluntary brides among the Afghan women, but they did have money. One Arab in Khost spent $10,000 on a teenage Afghan beauty, says Ahmad Jan, but abandoned her a week later, when the U.S. air strikes began.

Orders to abduct women came from the Taliban leaders, say the Kabul police, but not all commanders obeyed. In the Shomali Plain, Taliban commander Nuruludah says, he saw women being forced onto trucks by Pakistani members of al-Qaeda, so he gathered 10 men, ambushed the trucks and released the women. In Jalalabad too, a few local Taliban eventually stormed the camp and freed the women who remained there. These were the heroic exceptions. For others, apparently, the profound degradation of women seemed perfectly tolerable.

With reporting by Hannah Bloch/Islamabad

http://www.rawa.org/time.htm
The last paragraph shows that there were some heroic exceptions in the taliban that opposed this behaviour.
Reply

waji
02-01-2007, 07:38 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
What has the role of Pakistan been in helping Taliban?

It is an open secret that Taliban are a creation of Pakistan and the US, just as the jihadis are dependent on Russia, Central Asian Republics (CAR), Iran and India.
[B]
This information is wrong
Pakistani people do supported them and some still do
but Pakistan Government or people didn't created Taliban
Yes i can say that people helped them when whole world left them alone
but they didn't created them

:w:
Reply

Dawud_uk
02-01-2007, 09:32 AM
silent observer,

RAWA, means revolutionary association of the women of afghanistan.

they are a maoist organisation aiming to bring in a strict maoist state to afghanistan and are almost entirely made up of women who lost their western privilages when the communists lost power or their newer recruits who have been recruited to their kuffar idiology.

they lie repeatedly, for example you know the pictures of the women being wheeled out of hospital and stories of women being thrown out of mixed wards? that came from RAWA. the truth was they were being moved to newer single sex hospitals but heay why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

these people are liars, not even worthy to be taken as slaves, clear open apostates who deny the law of Allah and so should be executed when they are found unless they repent and then should be monitored and watched, not trusted more than a snake because they are far less trustworthy than snakes.

Abu Abdullah
Reply

MTAFFI
02-01-2007, 03:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
silent observer,

RAWA, means revolutionary association of the women of afghanistan.

they are a maoist organisation aiming to bring in a strict maoist state to afghanistan and are almost entirely made up of women who lost their western privilages when the communists lost power or their newer recruits who have been recruited to their kuffar idiology.

they lie repeatedly, for example you know the pictures of the women being wheeled out of hospital and stories of women being thrown out of mixed wards? that came from RAWA. the truth was they were being moved to newer single sex hospitals but heay why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

these people are liars, not even worthy to be taken as slaves, clear open apostates who deny the law of Allah and so should be executed when they are found unless they repent and then should be monitored and watched, not trusted more than a snake because they are far less trustworthy than snakes.

Abu Abdullah
funny how these women are liars but if you post an american doing this to someone it is automatically the truth and americans are the bad guys... interesting how one sided a group of people can be

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...e-cwies-9.html
Reply

Dawud_uk
02-01-2007, 03:57 PM
peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

mtaffi,

it wasnt their allegations of taking slaves after a town refused to accept islamic law and rule that i disputed, i know that happened in afghanistan and is in accordance with islamic law.

but many of their other allegations are either untrue or exagerations at best.

i am pointing out they lie and have lied many times so everything they say should be varified to establish the truth. someone from RAWA tells me it is day i would look out of the window expecting it to be dark and be suprised if it wasnt.

peace,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

MTAFFI
02-01-2007, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

but many of their other allegations are either untrue or exagerations at best.

peace,
Abu Abdullah
i could say the same of many islamic militant groups
Reply

Dawud_uk
02-01-2007, 04:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
i could say the same of many islamic militant groups
you could indeed, and if you ever do i will ask you to prove your allegations.

but in this particular case i now i am right, as i have made an extensive research on this topic and almost all anti taliban stories used in the west come from RAWA and their credability is zero in my eyes.

Abu Abdullah
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MTAFFI
02-01-2007, 04:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
their credability is zero in my eyes.

Abu Abdullah

again i could say the same of islamic militant groups, what makes RAWA's credibility so bad? Have you met these women personally?
Reply

Dawud_uk
02-01-2007, 04:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
again i could say the same of islamic militant groups, what makes RAWA's credibility so bad? Have you met these women personally?
they promote kufr, disbelief. look at their own english website. they believe in secular democracy, or say they do. maoists will tend to say anything until they get in power and then they differ very little from other communists.

Allah tells the believers in the Quran, that if a open sinner comes to you with news to varify it.

now too many muslims have accepted the lies of RAWA without question but they are certainly Fasiq's, open sinners because their whole idiology is disbelief in Islam and seeking to neuter islam as a way of life.

so this is why to me their credibility is so bad, even if several of their lies hadnt been pointed out to me in the past, still i would question them.

Abu Abdullah
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-01-2007, 07:19 PM
Ya Muslims , These kafirs who bring these Allegations have no basis and have no true knowledge of who the Taliban are. Do not debate over senseless topics because whether or not you present the truth they will not believe you. They dont believe the Quran so how can they believe the Sharia?
Reply

SilentObserver
02-02-2007, 02:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
silent observer,

RAWA, means revolutionary association of the women of afghanistan.

they are a maoist organisation aiming to bring in a strict maoist state to afghanistan and are almost entirely made up of women who lost their western privilages when the communists lost power or their newer recruits who have been recruited to their kuffar idiology.

they lie repeatedly, for example you know the pictures of the women being wheeled out of hospital and stories of women being thrown out of mixed wards? that came from RAWA. the truth was they were being moved to newer single sex hospitals but heay why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

these people are liars, not even worthy to be taken as slaves, clear open apostates who deny the law of Allah and so should be executed when they are found unless they repent and then should be monitored and watched, not trusted more than a snake because they are far less trustworthy than snakes.

Abu Abdullah
Proof please. At this point there is no reason to believe what you say. Personally I think it is a lie to cover for the taliban.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
you could indeed, and if you ever do i will ask you to prove your allegations.
By your own words. Proof please.
Reply

SilentObserver
02-02-2007, 02:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
they promote kufr, disbelief. look at their own english website. they believe in secular democracy, or say they do. maoists will tend to say anything until they get in power and then they differ very little from other communists.

Allah tells the believers in the Quran, that if a open sinner comes to you with news to varify it.

now too many muslims have accepted the lies of RAWA without question but they are certainly Fasiq's, open sinners because their whole idiology is disbelief in Islam and seeking to neuter islam as a way of life.

so this is why to me their credibility is so bad, even if several of their lies hadnt been pointed out to me in the past, still i would question them.

Abu Abdullah
It is taught in islam to never say that a person that claims to be muslim is not a muslim.
Reply

SilentObserver
02-02-2007, 02:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Ya Muslims , These kafirs who bring these Allegations have no basis and have no true knowledge of who the Taliban are. Do not debate over senseless topics because whether or not you present the truth they will not believe you. They dont believe the Quran so how can they believe the Sharia?
What do you say about what the women of RAWA have to say.

On August 24, 1998, a young man named Firouz Ahmad from Barahan in Heart was going home after doing some shopping for his wedding. A few Talibs with long hair and mustache stopped him and pulled him over. One was touching his face, saying, "You're beard is short," and the other saying, "Look at his hair," while all were laughing. Then they grabbed his hair and wanted to cut it with scissors. The young man was shouting, "For God's sake, don't cut my hair; tonight is my wedding night." But the Talibs laughed loudly and said, "Your lady won't accept you if you don't have hair?" The young man started begging them to let him go; finally, he said, "I'll buy my hair from you." "How much?" said one of the Talibs. "A hundred thousand Afghanis," said the young man. The Talibs said, "It's not enough." "How much then?" the young man asked. "Half a million Afghanis," the Talibs replied. The young man swore that he had only three hundred thousand Afghanis to do the rest of his wedding shopping. Finally, he had to pay that amount to rid himself of the Talibs.
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-02-2007, 03:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
What do you say about what the women of RAWA have to say.
Lol, Whoever you are, you obviously have never been to Pakistan or Afghanistan. You obviously do not know the people and how they're trickery is with robbery. There are thousands of people who claim to be talibs and go around robbing people, otherwise if they did not pretend to be like talibs how far would they get in Afghanistan?

And like i said even if the allegation was against a talib, why do you blame the whole of taliban?
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SilentObserver
02-02-2007, 03:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Lol, Whoever you are, you obviously have never been to Pakistan or Afghanistan. You obviously do not know the people and how they're trickery is with robbery. There are thousands of people who claim to be talibs and go around robbing people, otherwise if they did not pretend to be like talibs how far would they get in Afghanistan?

And like i said even if the allegation was against a talib, why do you blame the whole of taliban?
And like i said even if the allegation was against a talib, why do you blame the whole of taliban?
This is commonly what is done here when one US soldier commits a crime, all westerners are to blame.


I blame the taliban for the following;
It was nine in the morning when the appalling voice of the Taliban's religious police started announcing in loudspeakers that, "All citizens are invited to witness the execution of two thieves at 2 PM in the Heart stadium." I set out for the stadium with a few friends in the afternoon. When we entered, we decided to sit in the shade, but a Talib came to us running and started hitting us with his stick and said, "Sit down there, why don’t you understand me?" The Taliban were treating everyone like animals and pushing people from one side to another, like a herd of sheep. At the middle of the field, there was crane to hang the suspects. One Mullah (religious scholar), who couldn't speak Persian well, started speaking and said, "Fellow citizens, it is a pleasure to see that the religious rules are being implemented in our country. Today, the Taliban's high court is punishing two criminals who wanted to fight the Taliban. They are bandits, etc." After him, another Mullah, who is the chief of the criminal division, started explaining the crimes of these two people. Then two cars entered the stadium. We saw a body being thrown out of one of the cars. They fastened the rope around his neck and lifted him with the crane. It was obvious that he had been beaten to death on the way and they wanted to hang his body just for the show. The body did not move at all; his legs and hands were stiff like a stick; and half of his body was covered by dried-up blood.

Then, they brought the second suspect. They threw him out of the truck and started kicking him and beating him with their guns and batons. They put the rope around his neck and lifted him with the crane and kept him suspended in the air until he died. Then a Mullah spoke up and broke the silence; but he had barely spoken for a minute when everyone stood up and started to exit the stadium. The Talibs were furious and asked the people to wait and listen to the Mullah; and they didn't let people leave using their guns and batons, but people refused to sit down. By the time they took the bodies out of the stadium, everybody had already left.
It was obvious that he had been beaten to death on the way and they wanted to hang his body just for the show
Is this true sharia? What benefit is there to beating him to death if you are going to hang him anyway? The only benefit was to sadisfy the sadistic urges of those that beat him.
Reply

arabiyyah
02-02-2007, 04:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
A War on Schoolgirls

Unable to win on the battlefield, the Taliban are fighting to prevent half the country's children from getting an education.


Zalmai for Newsweek
Up in Flames: Taliban torched this school to stop girls from learning

By Ron Moreau and Sami Yousafzai
Newsweek


June 26, 2006 issue - Summer vacation has only begun, but as far as 12-year-old Nooria is concerned, the best thing is knowing she has a school to go back to in the fall. She couldn't be sure the place would stay open four months ago, after the Taliban tried to burn it down. Late one February night, more than a dozen masked gunmen burst into the 10-room girls' school in Nooria's village, Mandrawar, about 100 miles east of Kabul. They tied up and beat the night watchman, soaked the principal's office and the library with gasoline, set it on fire and escaped into the darkness. The townspeople, who doused the blaze before it could spread, later found written messages from the gunmen promising to cut off the nose and ears of any teacher or student who dared to return.

The threats didn't work. Within days, most of the school's 650 pupils were back to their studies. Classes were held under a grove of trees in the courtyard for several weeks, despite the winter chill, until repairs inside the one-story structure were complete. Nearby schools replaced at least some of the library's books. But the hate mail kept coming, with threats to shave the teachers' heads as well as mutilate their faces. Earlier this month, NEWSWEEK visited and talked to students and faculty on the last day of classes. Nooria, who dreams of becoming a teacher herself, expressed her determination to finish school. "I'm not afraid of getting my nose and ears cut off," she said, all dressed up in a long purple dress and headscarf. "I want to keep studying."

Schoolgirls need that kind of courage in Afghanistan. Unable to win on the battlefield, the Taliban are trying to discredit the Kabul government by blocking its efforts to raise Afghanistan out of its long dark age. They particularly want to undo one of the biggest changes of the past four years: the resumption of education for girls, which the Taliban outlawed soon after taking power in 1996. "The extremists want to show the people that the government and the international community cannot keep their promises," says Ahmad Nader Nadery of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC). Today the Ministry of Education says the country has 1,350 girls' schools, along with 2,900 other institutions that hold split sessions, with girls-only classes in the afternoon. (Coeducation is still forbidden.) More than a third of Afghanistan's 5 million schoolchildren are now girls, compared with practically none in early 1992. In the last six months, however, Taliban attacks and threats of attacks have disrupted or shut down more than 300 of those schools.

Most of the closures have been in the far south, where the Taliban are strongest, but schools are also getting hit in areas that used to be relatively safe, like the fertile river valleys of Laghman province. The rock-walled compound where Nooria attends classes is one of six schools for girls in the province that have been torched so far this year. The damage at two of them was so bad that they remain closed. In nearby Logar province, arsonists have struck 10 sister schools—all within 50 miles of Kabul. "People are extremely frightened," says Palwasha Shaheed Kakar, the AIHRC representative in neighboring Nangarhar province, where at least eight other schools have burned. "These extremists need to attack only one or two schools to send a strong message."

The girls' school in Haider Khani village, just up the main road from Mandrawar, has suffered a sharp drop in attendance since January, when masked gunmen forced their way in and torched the place. Before the attack, up to 80 percent of the families in Haider Khani were sending their daughters to school, according to the principal, Fazal Rabi. An American military Provincial Reconstruction Team quickly repaired the damage and reopened the school. Even so, the principal reckons that only 40 percent of the village's preteen girls came back, and only 10 percent of the teenagers. Parents dread what might happen on the walk to school. Teachers get scared, too. Since the Mandrawar attack, Nooria's teacher, Farida, has traveled to and from school every day wearing a burqa and escorted by a male relative. "Otherwise I fear my nose and hair will be cut off," she told NEWSWEEK.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13392086/site/newsweek/
that stinks, the taliban were pretty cruel.
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-02-2007, 06:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
This is commonly what is done here when one US soldier commits a crime, all westerners are to blame.


I blame the taliban for the following;


Is this true sharia? What benefit is there to beating him to death if you are going to hang him anyway? The only benefit was to sadisfy the sadistic urges of those that beat him.

First of all to the first comment i said even IF the taliban were blamed, In the indication i gave, you can see that those men were not Real Taliban

This is true sharia, One must hang his body in Public view for 3 days, this is The Sunnah so the public can view the crime that one has committed and the punishment.
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mahdisoldier19
02-02-2007, 06:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by arabiyyah
that stinks, the taliban were pretty cruel.
Ya Muslim, Do you believe the lies of those who have tortured 5,000 of your muslim brothers and raped countless number of your sisters who attempted to enjoy a pure islamic life based on establishing sharia?
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SilentObserver
02-02-2007, 07:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
First of all to the first comment i said even IF the taliban were blamed, In the indication i gave, you can see that those men were not Real Taliban

This is true sharia, One must hang his body in Public view for 3 days, this is The Sunnah so the public can view the crime that one has committed and the punishment.
In the indication i gave, you can see that those men were not Real Taliban
And in the indications I gave they were real taliban.
This is true sharia, One must hang his body in Public view for 3 days, this is The Sunnah so the public can view the crime that one has committed and the punishment.
You missed the point. If he is to be hanged anyway, why the beating? Is that islamic teaching? I doubt it.

More taliban;
On Jan. 1, 1999, two members of the Taliban's religious police went to Leilami street in Herat and started beating the shopkeepers and street vendors, and then two old workers named Abdollatif and Abdolhadi, who were working on an exploratory well, asking them why they hadn't attended the prayers. The people were witnessing a 17-year-old thug beating and insulting an old and respectable 70-year-old man.
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Dawud_uk
02-02-2007, 08:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
It is taught in islam to never say that a person that claims to be muslim is not a muslim.
sorry if i dont take my religion from a non muslim.

that is not exactly correct. if i meet someone and he claims islam then fine i would accept that from him at face value but if he begins to act against islam then the scholars will call a spade a spade and first advice him to stop and might even reach the point of declaring takfir against them, declaring them non muslims.

simularly some whole groups claim islam, such as the druze, alawiyyah, ahmadiyyah etc and yet the scholars have looked at the beliefs of these sects and call them kaffirs because claiming islam is not enough, you have to follow it through with actions and beliefs.

Abu Abdullah
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Dawud_uk
02-02-2007, 08:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
What do you say about what the women of RAWA have to say.
lol,

taliban with mustashes, really is funny. they dont even make their lies believable.

if this story is true they would not be taliban who are very strict on such matters and in islam we should trim the mustashe very short and keep the beard long but here we have a group of taliban with mustashes.

Abu Abdullah
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Dawud_uk
02-02-2007, 08:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by arabiyyah
that stinks, the taliban were pretty cruel.
you take your news from kaffir news sources, did you varify this story sister?

yes the taliban have destroyed some schools, did you ask why?
but many others were destroyed by ignorant people but ask why the taliban destroyed the schools they destroyed.

they have themselves just said they want to set up schools in the areas they control so it cannot be they are anti education full stop so why destroy a school?

they have said they wish to educate girls, but that boys must earn a living but havent prevented others from setting up girls schools as long as not mixed and as long as curriculum is islamic.

could it be what is being taught in the schools destroyed is against islam and promoting disbelief in shariah?

check the story behind the story before condemning so easily and follow Allah's command and varify news if a fasiq brings it to you.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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Dawud_uk
02-02-2007, 08:40 AM
hi silent observer,

if this story is true, and you dont post a link to be able to check it out, but if true... how is a man who didnt pray respectable in the sight of Allah and of muslims?

Abu Abdullah
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rav
02-02-2007, 11:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
lol,

taliban with mustashes, really is funny. they dont even make their lies believable.

if this story is true they would not be taliban who are very strict on such matters and in islam we should trim the mustashe very short and keep the beard long but here we have a group of taliban with mustashes.

Abu Abdullah
Wow, I wish I could deny everything people say about Israel here and tell people "the goyam will lie" with a straight face. I bet I would get severly critisized for that though. :rolleyes:
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Dawud_uk
02-02-2007, 11:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
Wow, I wish I could deny everything people say about Israel here and tell people "the goyam will lie" with a straight face. I bet I would get severly critisized for that though. :rolleyes:
rav,

would you not take the word of a practicing strict jew over a non jew?

or at least expect the non jew to come with some bias that might colour their opinion and at the very least mean you should check up what they bring and make sure it is trustworthy and from a good source?

Abu Abdullah
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Al_Imaan
02-02-2007, 02:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
you take your news from kaffir news sources, did you varify this story sister?

yes the taliban have destroyed some schools, did you ask why?
but many others were destroyed by ignorant people but ask why the taliban destroyed the schools they destroyed.

they have themselves just said they want to set up schools in the areas they control so it cannot be they are anti education full stop so why destroy a school?

they have said they wish to educate girls, but that boys must earn a living but havent prevented others from setting up girls schools as long as not mixed and as long as curriculum is islamic.

could it be what is being taught in the schools destroyed is against islam and promoting disbelief in shariah?

check the story behind the story before condemning so easily and follow Allah's command and varify news if a fasiq brings it to you.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
when my parents were in school back in Afghanistan....the boys and girls were seperated....that was before the Taliban....all their classes had been associated with islam....so i dont know what ur talkin' about.....
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Dawud_uk
02-02-2007, 02:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
when my parents were in school back in Afghanistan....the boys and girls were seperated....that was before the Taliban....all their classes had been associated with islam....so i dont know what ur talkin' about.....
so it was before the taliban, so what is your argument exactly?

i would ask you to look at what the taliban have said, much of which has been posted on this thread. that they warn schools that are either mixed or teaching a secular curriculum and if they refuse to stop teaching these things then yes they have attacked schools and teachers.

but they have also just announed their own plans to set up islamic schools in the areas they control in the south.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

Al_Imaan
02-02-2007, 03:06 PM
wat im tryin to say is that the boys and girls weren't mixed in schools b4 the Taliban....so y did they burn down the schools...i know that they r planning to build schools...this is because they caused already caused so much damage.....and r trying to hide it all....u dont have to agree to wat i say...just because i cant show u proof doesnt mean im sayin' all this out of the back of my head.....i dont get proof from articles posted on the internet cuz that's all part of media.....im talking from the point of view of the afghans i know who have been through alot....
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Dawud_uk
02-02-2007, 03:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
wat im tryin to say is that the boys and girls weren't mixed in schools b4 the Taliban....so y did they burn down the schools...i know that they r planning to build schools...this is because they caused already caused so much damage.....and r trying to hide it all....u dont have to agree to wat i say...just because i cant show u proof doesnt mean im sayin' all this out of the back of my head.....i dont get proof from articles posted on the internet cuz that's all part of media.....im talking from the point of view of the afghans i know who have been through alot....
would it be correct to date two people and then say therefore everything else was the same? no it would not. you see that is just the views and experiences of two people, not the whole nation.

many of the schools run by the communists were mixed, many of the schools promoted by the foreign NGO's were mixed.

i am also going to people who were there, during the times of the taliban and before so guess we are both talking to people with completely different sets of experience

so until the taliban come back again in afghanistan, which is highly likely - then really neither of us can prove the other wrong when referring to the intentions of the mujahadeen there.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

MTAFFI
02-02-2007, 04:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
would it be correct to date two people and then say therefore everything else was the same? no it would not. you see that is just the views and experiences of two people, not the whole nation.

many of the schools run by the communists were mixed, many of the schools promoted by the foreign NGO's were mixed.

i am also going to people who were there, during the times of the taliban and before so guess we are both talking to people with completely different sets of experience

so until the taliban come back again in afghanistan, which is highly likely - then really neither of us can prove the other wrong when referring to the intentions of the mujahadeen there.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Dawud

why do you sympathize with the Taliban? It isnt like Afghanistan was a wonderful place to live before the US toppled this oppressive regime, not only that but werent they supposed to be a "true" Islamic state, and if that were the case then why would Allah have let them be taken over? The US trained many of the fighters in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, they didnt mind US presence then did they? Now they do because they have become exactly what they did not want, an oppressive radical regime. No rights for women and extreme punishment for crimes, that is why they will not get back into power because no one wants them to be
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arabiyyah
02-02-2007, 08:09 PM
you take your news from kaffir news sources, did you varify this story sister?
ive heard plenty of stories from muslims news people about taliban burning down girls schools. now where in islam does it teach that girls cannot learn?
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Keltoi
02-02-2007, 08:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by arabiyyah
ive heard plenty of stories from muslims news people about taliban burning down girls schools. now where in islam does it teach that girls cannot learn?
You believe kuffar news sources...in other words, you don't believe what Mullah Omar tells you. I wouldn't worry about justifying your position to everyone. There are plenty of Muslims who know the truth of what the Taliban regime represented.
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wilberhum
02-02-2007, 09:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by arabiyyah
ive heard plenty of stories from muslims news people about taliban burning down girls schools. now where in islam does it teach that girls cannot learn?
What makes you think the Taliban was a ideal Islamic group? :hiding:
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mahdisoldier19
02-03-2007, 03:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
wat im tryin to say is that the boys and girls weren't mixed in schools b4 the Taliban....so y did they burn down the schools...i know that they r planning to build schools...this is because they caused already caused so much damage.....and r trying to hide it all....u dont have to agree to wat i say...just because i cant show u proof doesnt mean im sayin' all this out of the back of my head.....i dont get proof from articles posted on the internet cuz that's all part of media.....im talking from the point of view of the afghans i know who have been through alot....

What Damage? You plan to go to the Akhirah and succeed when you follow what the kafirs had done in Afghanistan to your fellow muslim brothers and sisters? You have committed an act of Kuffar with Siding with the Kafirs against your Muslim brothers and sisters.

What Damage have the Taliban have caused? And you are speaking from the point of the afghans? No you are speaking from the Northern Alliance view, the view of the hypocrites.
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mahdisoldier19
02-03-2007, 03:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Dawud

why do you sympathize with the Taliban? It isnt like Afghanistan was a wonderful place to live before the US toppled this oppressive regime, not only that but werent they supposed to be a "true" Islamic state, and if that were the case then why would Allah have let them be taken over? The US trained many of the fighters in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, they didnt mind US presence then did they? Now they do because they have become exactly what they did not want, an oppressive radical regime. No rights for women and extreme punishment for crimes, that is why they will not get back into power because no one wants them to be
And look at your stupidity the taliban have captured over 14 provinces rapidly, and plan on gaining more territory, each year the fighting continues, more munafiqs(hypocrites) leave the taliban, cleansing them. No rights for women? What are you talking about? Extreme Punishment for crimes? The united states carried out more executions than the Taliban did. Oh i apologize if its not for the public to view the crime and punishment. Also to conclude the taliban have regained power, this time they plan on not just staying in Afghanistan, but to build the Islamic Empire again.
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mahdisoldier19
02-03-2007, 03:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
What makes you think the Taliban was a ideal Islamic group? :hiding:
What makes you think they arent?
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mahdisoldier19
02-03-2007, 03:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by arabiyyah
ive heard plenty of stories from muslims news people about taliban burning down girls schools. now where in islam does it teach that girls cannot learn?
And did you verify those stories? Look on through the posts that i have made Sister and learn your Deen
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mahdisoldier19
02-03-2007, 03:24 AM
I also ask the Moderators to close this thread, because the Insufficiency of the Kafirs producing their own opinion of television rather than knowing the truth about the existence and the truth about the Sunni Taliban Movement

I am glad however for this thread, now i can see the Hypocrite's on this board amongst the sisters and brothers who continuously support the kafirs against their brothers and sisters in Islam, yet i am not surprised from the kaffir side, they will always bash on the Muslims.
Reply

Woodrow
02-03-2007, 05:16 AM
this has gone on for 16 pages now. I believe evryone has formed opinions now and nothing more is going to change any thoughts.





:threadclo
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