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View Full Version : Religious minorities in Europe.. in trouble again?!?!



rav
01-05-2007, 04:18 PM
The Jews use to be the largest religious minority in Europe, and then of course the Holocaust happened, but this was only after years of discrimination, their rights being torn away, being forced to live in ghetto's, and the whole separation between a people that had a way of life like the Jews who had to keep kosher (no pork ect) and had to pray and study the holy books all day, and the non-Jews who basically did not care much for religion or did not have any way of life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom


porgroms against jews


jews forced to wear badges

Of course the Jews were really violent and were always taught pacifism as an approach, but still, it was a situation similar.

You see before the Holocaust in the early 1900's and well before that there are thousands of "pogroms", which were raids on Jewish villages to kill, steal and loot, and people always viewed the high birth rate of the Jews because traditional Jews had many kids, as a threat.

I look back on this, and with the banning of veils and religious items in Europe again, and with a new minority in Europe, is this trend about to happen again?

I seriously doubt it because of the Internet and human rights groups etc now, and because Muslims in Europe have a support base in the Middle East, something the Jews did not have, but still let me ask one question because I just keep jabbering, and keep talking:

Has Europe learned anything about religious tolerance since they last discriminated and killed so many Jews?

Are the new religious minorities that refuse to assimilate into European culture (like the Jews did from the Mideval times until the Holocaust in the 1940's) suffering from religious intolerance?

Now of course we cannot compare the hatred Europe had for the Jews and now they are more tolerant towards Muslims, but still... Are they tolerant enough after there last stunt which left millions dead?
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brenton
01-05-2007, 05:14 PM
Hey Rav. I taught a course on antisemitism last semester at UPEI (called "Anguish of the Jews"). At the end of the semester, I asked students if violent antisemitism could return. They were split, but most agreed that 1) it would return in some form; and 2) it wouldn't be as bad as Shoah.

As a Christian, I feel it was Christians (and people using Christianity for their benefit) who caused much of the suffering of Jews over that last millennium or so. Still, when the "Christian" roots of Europe were burnt out, there was initial emancipation of Jews, but no foundation for a longterm inclusion of Judaism or any religious minority.

I'm not sure that Shoah was possible under a Christian regime (before the French Revolution, under Christendom), but I also don't think that Jewish emancipation was possible--at least not as early as the 19th c. Christians caused much pain, but they also had limits that Hitler or Mussolini did not have.

I don't trust post-Christian Europe any more than Christian Europe, and I fear for Muslims.
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rav
01-05-2007, 07:12 PM
I don't trust post-Christian Europe any more than Christian Europe, and I fear for Muslims.
The one difference is post Christian Europe is more secular, and liberal so maybe the liberals who ceased to exist and stand up for the Jews will stand up for the Muslims.
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brenton
01-05-2007, 09:16 PM
Perhaps. But France is the most "liberal" place, and look at the issues there with Muslims. And Germany was the most intellectual, cosmopolitan country of Western Europe in 1932.
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skhalid
01-05-2007, 09:22 PM
As they say...here we go again!!!
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Pygoscelis
01-06-2007, 01:01 AM
Originally Posted by rav
The one difference is post Christian Europe is more secular, and liberal so maybe the liberals who ceased to exist and stand up for the Jews will stand up for the Muslims.
I'm not so sure about this.

Isn't Islam an ultraconservative ideology?

I think the christian conservatives have more in common with the muslims than the liberals do.

Then again, maybe that just polarizes things.

Where I'm at is very liberal, women are allowed to go topless, marry each other, and smoke pot if they want (few do), but we still have lots of Muslims who seem to be getting on ok.

I dunno about this one.
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ManchesterFolk
01-06-2007, 04:30 AM
Originally Posted by brenton
Perhaps. But France is the most "liberal" place, and look at the issues there with Muslims. And Germany was the most intellectual, cosmopolitan country of Western Europe in 1932.
Those are good points.
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