Hamas' betrayal of Muslim brothers and sisters

[Chechnya]

Hamas prefer their kafir friends to an islamic nation that is being wiped out by their good friend Putin.
To them the slow genocide in Chechnya is an "internal russian problem" as said by Khalid Meshal in is visit to Russia:

The leader of radical Palestinian group Hamas said Friday that the conflict in breakaway Chechnya was Russia's internal problem, provoking a protest from the Chechen rebels.

"It is Russia's internal problem. We do not interfere in other states' internal problems," Hamas political chief Khaled Mashaal said after talks in Moscow.

Chechnya, a mainly Muslim province in southern Russia, has been wracked by two conflicts in the past decade between Russian troops and Chechen separatists.

Although large-scale fighting has ended, regular skirmishes and rebel land mine attacks continue. Human rights activists accuse Russian forces and their local Chechen allies of major abuses against civilians, including kidnapping and extra-judicial executions.

Chechen rebel envoy Akhmed Zakayev, who has been granted political asylum in Britain, said the Hamas statement was a betrayal but not unexpected.

"We did not expect there to be any difference between Hamas and Yasser Arafat," Zakayev told The Associated Press by telephone from London, referring to the late Palestinian leader. "They have put the interests of the Russian government above that of religious solidarity with Chechen Muslims."

Russia's invitation to Hamas, extended by President Vladimir Putin, was the first crack in an international front against the group, which has sent dozens of suicide bombers to Israel and does not recognize the right of the Jewish state to exist.

Hamas won parliamentary elections in January and is working to form a government.

Another Hamas quote on Chechnya:

"They are crafty with fibs, and one shouldn't believe it," Meshaal was quoted as saying. "The Palestinian problem has absolutely nothing in common with the Chechen problem, nor with any other [problem]." The Hamas leader accused Israel of wanting to "put Russia, a great country, in an embarrassing situation." Russia "has taken a brave position and, I think, will not fall for this blackmail," Meshaal said, adding that Russia "acts in its own interests and in the interest of peace in the Middle East" and "does not need the Israelis' poisonous advice."

[Woodrow]

Please post a link to the source

[ManchesterFolk]

Nice article, Hamas are a bunch of thug terrorists.

[Trumble]

They are pragmatists, certainly. That said, in their position I'm not at all sure they can afford not to be.

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[Chechen]

I'm not surprised they betrayed us. I've always considered them as cowards. They do nothing to fight back and once someone is killed they run in the streets with guns in their hands protesting and then everybody goes home. How can they go against Russia? They should maybe start by fighting their own enemy.

[Hashim_507]

If Russia wants peace in middle east, why not start peace with chechniyans? Inviting Hamas to Moscow is all political stunt for Putin support of his government. Putin wants Russia to expend there interest through out the world including muslim world. His first stunt is to invite Hamas to his country and make himself look angel to the muslim world.

If Chechniyans was invited to Israel by Olmert and his government and Chechniyans authority go against palestinians by saying "Chechniyans got nothing do with palestinians". The whole arab world would wage war against Chechnya.

[Chechen]

^ Very true. Also Palestinians want everyone to support them and their cause so they say to everyone: you are our muslim brothers you must help us and when it comes up to them to help they say oh no sorry we have nothing to do with you. And Russia of course is trying to make friends in the middle east because they're not very popular there because of the war in Chechnya.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Jazaak Allaah khayr, i thought we were one ummah - not simply palestine, or chechnya or iraq or kashmir.

If the leaders are still supporting nationalism, why should we attack them? Inshaa'Allaah we should do something about it. This is what the enemies want - they want us to attack each other and never unite, because once the believers unite - its a threat to them.


We can only unite if we work to unite instead of simply attacking others for not doing so.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Thread Re-opened on request.

[SATalha]

Yes we are one Ummah Chechen or Palestinian, My thoughts and Dwas are with both the Nations. Come one do we need this!

[Chechnya]

jazakallah khair bro Fi_Sabilillah

Yes we are one Ummah Chechen or Palestinian, My thoughts and Dwas are with both the Nations. Come one do we need this!

i agree that we are on ummah and all nationalism should be discarded.

this is what makes this issue important. what should be the muslim response to this act?

when any muslim nation either opens relations with israel or talks about the possibility of doing so, they are immediately hated and condemned - and rightly so.

however when hamas did the same to the chechen brothers and sisters, there was mainly a big silence - its almost as if no-one cared.

if - as bro hashim said - it was the chechens that betrayed the palestinians - the whole arab world would have been up in arms about it.
are hamas an arab nationalist group or an islamic one?

[SATalha]

Yes Bro, this betryal should be met with disgust. If this is True than my opinion of Hammas has decreased. The Chechens bros and sis that have suffred dont need this from a Party that has defied the western world. I hope he appologise to the people.

[Chechen]

The Arabs aren't acting like they want an Islamic Union they're acting like they want an Arabic Union. The Arabs are always shouting loudly about Iraq or Palestine but they don't want to say a word about Chechnya. It's as if they don't care about Chechens. It's like they only want to help eachother as Arabs. The Chechens have asked many western countries to help them in their struggle but they of course turned their backs. And when the Chechens turned to their muslim brothers who were their last hope their muslim brothers turned their backs aswell. That's when we understood that we and our struggle were unimportant to everyone and everyone had closed their eyes on us and we were alone and only had ourselves to help eachother.

[SATalha]

The Arabs aren't acting like they want an Islamic Union they're acting like they want an Arabic Union. The Arabs are always shouting loudly about Iraq or Palestine but they don't want to say a word about Chechnya. It's as if they don't care about Chechens. It's like they only want to help eachother as Arabs. The Chechens have asked many western countries to help them in their struggle but they of course turned their backs. And when the Chechens turned to their muslim brothers who were their last hope their muslim brothers turned their backs aswell. That's when we understood that we and our struggle were unimportant to everyone and everyone had closed their eyes on us and we were alone and only had ourselves to help eachother.

Nah bro your struggle is my struggle, remember that. Trust me although it may seem that you are alone, your not the Arab world might not be showing their concern but they are not the voice of the people. I live in London and our thoughts and preyers are always with you. I have heard what the russian scumbags do and it breaks my heart that you do not get enough attention. Please dont feel that no one cares coz we do trust me.

[Chechen]

Nah bro your struggle is my struggle, remember that. Trust me although it may seem that you are alone, your not the Arab world might not be showing their concern but they are not the voice of the people. I live in London and our thoughts and preyers are always with you. I have heard what the russian scumbags do and it breaks my heart that you do not get enough attention. Please dont feel that no one cares coz we do trust me.

Thanks a lot bro. You don't imagine how important words like that are to me. Because I feel so sad that there are so many people that don't care about us I mean I don't understand why so many people hate us we never asked for anything more than just our freedom. But anyways thanks for your support and prayers. Insha Allah one day all muslim people will be able to live in peace and not have to suffer war.

[SATalha]

Inshallah. Jus remember you have bros and sis in London that do care.

[Chechnya]

bro chechen

i think one of the reasons the arab world has betrayed the chechen cause is because of a lack of information - many muslims dont know what is happening, so its up to those of us that do know to raise awareness of the situation in any way we can.

having said that i wouldnt trust many psuedo-islamic groups like hamas or even the muslim brotherhood (of which hamas is an off-shoot) - as you rightly said all they will talk about is arab issues and ignore non-arabs.

my mom is from kashmir - there is alot of suffering there too under the indian occupation , rapes and murder on large-scale - most of the arab world ignores what happens in kashmir and even befriends India which murders and rapes muslims just like russia.

but like bro SATalha says many muslims support our brothers in chechnya - groups like hamas or the muslim brotherhood are not representatives of us.

[SATalha]

Thank you, Kashmir is something that I am debating as well, my parents are from Bangladesh and they are always saying "when will those Indians leave Kashmir alone".

[Chechen]

bro chechen

i think one of the reasons the arab world has betrayed the chechen cause is because of a lack of information - many muslims dont know what is happening, so its up to those of us that do know to raise awareness of the situation in any way we can.

having said that i wouldnt trust many psuedo-islamic groups like hamas or even the muslim brotherhood (of which hamas is an off-shoot) - as you rightly said all they will talk about is arab issues and ignore non-arabs.

my mom is from kashmir - there is alot of suffering there too under the indian occupation , rapes and murder on large-scale - most of the arab world ignores what happens in kashmir and even befriends India which murders and rapes muslims just like russia.

but like bro SATalha says many muslims support our brothers in chechnya - groups like hamas or the muslim brotherhood are not representatives of us.

I truly understand the people of Kashmir. Their situation is exactly like ours. They suffer and the world stays silent. I just can't understand that. The worst is that people aren't ashamed of just ignoring them like that. I hope Allah stops their suffering Insha Allah. And may Allah help us muslims unite whether Arab or non- Arab and go against the kaffir so they leave us once and for all.

[SATalha]

Ameen. I think that the Arabs need to wake up and realise that there are oher muslims out there. I went to Morroco and when we where greeted they always said Namaste like we where Hindu and when we said no we are muslims they would give a wierd look. Its not fare that certin places are ignored because they are not in the middle east. dont wory we will unite one day, when the great general comes.

[Chechen]

I hope I'll be alive to see Islam triumph in front of the whole world Insha Allah

[SATalha]

Inshallah It will happen. Once the borders of the countries in the middle east are droped its a stright from Afganistan to Al-quds.

[Chechen]

Yes Insha Allah we'll be united one day. Because I live in France and there are muslim Arabs here who don't even know who Chechens are, where Chechnya is or even that there's a war there.

[SATalha]

Thats all to do with coverage. The western media is so important to us but they chose what should be showed and what shoudnt.forgive thier ignorance.

[Skillganon]

bro chechen

i think one of the reasons the arab world has betrayed the chechen cause is because of a lack of information - many muslims dont know what is happening, so its up to those of us that do know to raise awareness of the situation in any way we can.

having said that i wouldnt trust many psuedo-islamic groups like hamas or even the muslim brotherhood (of which hamas is an off-shoot) - as you rightly said all they will talk about is arab issues and ignore non-arabs.

my mom is from kashmir - there is alot of suffering there too under the indian occupation , rapes and murder on large-scale - most of the arab world ignores what happens in kashmir and even befriends India which murders and rapes muslims just like russia.

but like bro SATalha says many muslims support our brothers in chechnya - groups like hamas or the muslim brotherhood are not representatives of us.

Lack of Info is one cause, especially about Chechnya and Kashmir. Their are others.
Inshallah everyone will wake up to what's happening in those places.

[Chechen]

No I don't blame them. I understand them. The western media is controlled and made so that they have the people believe what they want them to believe.

[Chechen]

Lack of Info is one cause, especially about Chechnya and Kashmir. Their are others.
Inshallah everyone will wake up to what's happening in those places.

There's also the oil and gas problem. If any country dares say a word against Russia then they're in deep trouble.

[SATalha]

Is Chechnia a oil rich place?

[Skillganon]

There's also the oil and gas problem. If any country dares say a word against Russia then they're in deep trouble.

True, politics play a big role. I just wanna see where Hamas is leading with this.

Trust me I even was not so aware of chechan or Kashmir. I was watching "Islam Channel" and they brought those issue's up.

[Chechen]

True, politics play a big role. I just wanna see where Hamas is leading with this.

Trust me I even was not so aware of chechan or Kashmir. I was watching "Islam Channel" and they brought those issue's up.

Yeah that's a big problem most people don't even know those places exist. But I seriously can't believe Hamas thinks they're going to get any help from Russia. Russians have always been lying and betraying. You just have to look at their history.

[rav]

If Russia wants peace in middle east, why not start peace with chechniyans? Inviting Hamas to Moscow is all political stunt for Putin support of his government. Putin wants Russia to expend there interest through out the world including muslim world. His first stunt is to invite Hamas to his country and make himself look angel to the muslim world.

If Chechniyans was invited to Israel by Olmert and his government and Chechniyans authority go against palestinians by saying "Chechniyans got nothing do with palestinians". The whole arab world would wage war against Chechnya.

That is because the Muslim world does not care about th Chechnyans unless it suits them. Before 1967, when the Arab world attacked Israel and were utterly defeated again by a Jewish army half their size, tha is when the Arab world began to care for the Palestinians.

[SATalha]

The guvernments and officails might not care but they are not the people. The muslim world does care about the chechens its just there isnt coverage about the war thats why. But word of mouth is stronger and we are spreading the news and making people aware of the struggle that the Chechens go through.

[Skillganon]

The guvernments and officails might not care but they are not the people. The muslim world does care about the chechens its just there isnt coverage about the war thats why. But word of mouth is stronger and we are spreading the news and making people aware of the struggle that the Chechens go through.

Inshallah the chechen, plestinian and Kashmir will be successful.

[SATalha]

We have monthly meetings discussing these issues and how we can help i know that Interpal help the Palestinians but is there a specific charity that helps the Chechens?

[sister_fatimah]

:sl:

Ihavent read this posts before , i wonder how can we help our bro and sis from chechnya ...ther are always in my dua'as , i love them by Allah but what else can I do ? :cry:
bro chechen, can u talk about the situation od the sisters ? I ve read terrible things :cry:

[Nisrin]

Salaam wa alaikoem

Hamas are not terrorists, but freedomfighters....
They stand up for the rights of the palestinian and the injustice that has been done to them !! Maybe you don't agree whith what Khalid Meshaal have said, but don't judge Hamas.
Speccialy WE as Muslims have to unite and to stand up for the rights of the Palestinian !!
They have been to long ignored...

But this is just my opinion, nobody have to agree with me or to attack me. Just an opinion ;)

Wa alaikoem salaam

[afriend]

I'm not surprised they betrayed us. I've always considered them as cowards. They do nothing to fight back and once someone is killed they run in the streets with guns in their hands protesting and then everybody goes home. How can they go against Russia? They should maybe start by fighting their own enemy.

If you gave them a chance. Their economy is in tatters, order in the country is terrible, schools are not functioning.

Chechnya is in trouble, a country devastated by war. And now searching for some desperate help from other Islamic countries.

My advice to you and your people would be to ponder over this ayah of the Quran:

"Or do you think that you would enter the garden while yet the state of those who have passed away before you has not come upon you; distress and affliction befell them and they were shaken violently, so that the Apostle and those who believed with him said: When will the help of Allah come? Now surely the help of Allah is nigh!" (2:214)

That ayah, is one in its kind, if only you knew.

[Chechnya]

Hamas are not terrorists, but freedomfighters....
They stand up for the rights of the palestinian and the injustice that has been done to them !! Maybe you don't agree whith what Khalid Meshaal have said, but don't judge Hamas.
Speccialy WE as Muslims have to unite and to stand up for the rights of the Palestinian !!
They have been to long ignored...

But this is just my opinion, nobody have to agree with me or to attack me. Just an opinion

salam bro

the palestinians havent been helped in they way we might have liked - but they certainly have not be ignored.

there is no excuse for what hamas did with russia - it is a betrayal.

if the shoe was on the other foot, hamas and everyone else would be furious but apparently its one rule for them and another for everyone else.

[sister_fatimah]

[QUOTE=Chechnya;619660]salam bro

the palestinians havent been helped in they way we might have liked - but they certainly have not be ignored.

yep I agree , how many people or muslims know about the situation in chechnya ? or actually , with somalia? here in the west , the media never published no talk ...

[Chechnya]

yep I agree , how many people or muslims know about the situation in chechnya ? or actually , with somalia? here in the west , the media never published no talk ...

in chechnya all independant journalists are banned - some journalists who exposed the rape and murder carried out by the russians have now been killed by them.

[Skillganon]

I do not agree with the statement of Hamas concerning Chechnya. However I do agree with the struggle of the palestianian and chechen people.

[Sami Zaatari]

its called being smart, guys this is war u know? to win war u need tactics and as the prophet said war is deception. the hamas leader said that because it will help them out, because the russians will fund them and give them back door weapons to use against israel. whats the use of hamas saying u russians are so badddddddd down with u!!!!!!!!! it wud be of no use, instead it wud now make usa, israel, and russia vs hamas. getting the russians on their side is very good for the way things are, first take care of israel, then take care of the rest. the only reason arabs are stuck is because of israel, how the hell u expect to let Islam win when ur holy lands are occupied and stuck? first free the holy places then get to the rest, like how the prophet did, free Makkah, then move on and take care of the persians and romans in persia and jerusalem.

[Chechnya]

its called being smart, guys this is war u know? to win war u need tactics and as the prophet said war is deception. the hamas leader said that because it will help them out, because the russians will fund them and give them back door weapons to use against israel. whats the use of hamas saying u russians are so badddddddd down with u!!!!!!!!! it wud be of no use, instead it wud now make usa, israel, and russia vs hamas. getting the russians on their side is very good for the way things are, first take care of israel, then take care of the rest. the only reason arabs are stuck is because of israel, how the hell u expect to let Islam win when ur holy lands are occupied and stuck? first free the holy places then get to the rest, like how the prophet did, free Makkah, then move on and take care of the persians and romans in persia and jerusalem.

yes very smart, you just betray a nation that is being slaughtered, join with their enemies and tormenters and you call that "smart".

if that is "smart" i hate to imagine what "stupid" is.

btw do you realise you are just justifying all muslim countries recognising Israel and having friendly relations with israel?

they could also argue that having israel a close ally is helping them sort their own problems out - but something tells me you wont be so keen to see the palestinians betrayed as you are seeing the chechens betrayed...

as for the arab lands - theyre NOT more important than non-arab lands or people.

what you are suggesting is that all muslim nation betray each other if they can get a personal gain from it rather than stay united - i dont think you,ve thought your plan through very carefully

salam

[Woodrow]

The simple fact is that we as Muslims have let Chechnya down. Not only Chechnya but many if not all Muslims in what was formerly USSR terretory. we did not do it out of malice, we did it out of failure to learn and to study what has happened.

Many people are not even aware that at one time Russia and the former Soviet States had a very large Muslim Population. But, there has been Genocide beyond anything the world has imagined. All dating back to the 1800s.

How many people know what happened to the Circassians? How many people even know who the Circassians are and who they once were?

Summary: The genocide committed against the Circassian nation by Czarist Russia in the 1800s was the biggest genocide of the nineteenth century. Yet it has been almost entirely forgotten by later history, while everyone knows the later Jewish Holocaust and many have heard about the Armenian genocide. "Rather than of separate, selectively researched genocides, we should speak of a general genocidal tendency that affected many – both Muslim and Christian – people on a wide scene between 1856 and 1956, continuing in post-Soviet Russia until today", writes Antero Leitzinger. This article was originally published in "Turkistan News".

Source: http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/issue2/circass.htm

Russia has probably been guilty of murdering more Muslims than any other group in history. With the possible exception of the Genocide of nearly the entire Muslim population in China also in the 1800s.

The reduction in Muslim population has been drastic during the communist regime of China. So far all the communist governments have seen Muslims as threat and they have killed more than half million Muslims during the communist party rule. The ethnic cleansing of Muslims is continuously going on in China for the last fifty years. Muslims can not worship openly. The areas of Muslim majority have been kept undeveloped and when a Muslim wants to improve his / her standard of living he /she has no choice but to leave the area. When he / she arrives in the developed areas of China they are no more allowed to practice their religion openly.

Source: http://www.themodernreligion.com/rac...holocaust.html

Under the pretext of unification of national education, Islamic schools were closed and their students transferred to other schools which taught only Marxism and Maoism. Other outrages included the closing of over 29,000 mosques, the widespread torture of imams, and executions of over 360,000 Muslims. Aside from the physical annihilation, Muslims have been subjected to a constant attack on their Islamic identity especially during the so-called Cultural Revolution (1966-76). For instance, posters which appeared in Peking (later to be called Beijing) in 1966, openly called for the abolition of Islamic practices. Muslims were also barred from learning their written language which incorporated the Arabic script and was influenced by Arabic, Turkish and Farsi. This change was critical as it distanced Muslims from the Arabic language, the language of the Qur'an and their Islamic aspirations. During this era many Mosques were closed down and waqf properties were confiscated. (Yusuf Abdur Rahman)

Source: http://www.islamicpopulation.com/china_muslim.html

Perhaps it is not a very wise move to align with Communist and former Communist nations.

[Sami Zaatari]

i never said arab lands did i? i said HOLY LAND so learn how to read instead of putting words in my mouth. Makkah, Madina, and Al-Aqsa are FAR ABOVE chechnya on priority lists so get over it if you dont like it, i sense NATIONALISM comming in your tone. secondly, again, you couldnt refute me, tell me what good would it do if hamas so russia your so baddddddd, go on tell me. what will you say, ohhhh it shows unity? and, what the heck would that do for us in the long term? NOTHING. so no i suggest you think your plan out. secondly go read Islamic history, did you forget the treaty of hudaybiya? the prophet gave muslims back to the pagans as part of the agreement, many were angry and upset, but in the end it was for the best because it eventually led to victory, so this should teach you that in war sometimes hard decisions must be made for the bigger picture. so same in the case, many are angry and upset by these words of khaled, but in the end its for the good when you look at the big picture, YOUR plan does NOTHING for us, and again i tell you to bring me one good thing that would have happened had hamas said russia urrrrrrrr so bad, plz bring me one realistic good thing that would have resulted from it, you wont find any. secondly, go learn history, us palestinians have been betrayed so many times i lost count, by egypt, jordan, and on and on. oh yeah and syria, so plz dont tell me about betrayl buddy we knowwwww all about it, to this day palestinians are getting betrayed by their arab 'brethren'!

last but not least, hamas didnt betray you AT ALL, words mean nothing, did hamas put a gun in their hand and go killing chechens? NOPE. however so syrians, jordanians, and even lebanease put guns in their hands and killed palestinians, so again go learn some history of the middle-east conflict and then come talk about betrayl of palestinians. and as for arab countries recognizing israel, your already late, they all already do, secretly that is. the only country i dont know which has trade and financial exchanges with israel is syria. and the difference is is that these arab goverments arent doing it for the 'greater' good, their doing it for money and power to keep their own corrupt necks to rule over the arabs thats all.

[Sami Zaatari]

and you know, can you tell me what chechens have done for palestinian muslims? i may be ignorant, but i dont recall a single thing you have done, why dont you send hundreds of fighters to palestine? nah, you send hundreds of chechens to fight in afghanistan and uzbekistan instead!!!!!!!!! so you know thats really funny to me, you have neverrrrrrrr done anything for palis, you talk about unity, helping each other, and yet chechen fighters go fight in afghanistan instead. and hey im not saying you should go fight in palestine, you do what you want, but dont come nag on us when you have never done anything for us, including that chechen rebel you quoted.

[SATalha]

ood post Woodrow. I didnt know about this, thanks for informming us.

[SATalha]

and you know, can you tell me what chechens have done for palestinian muslims? i may be ignorant, but i dont recall a single thing you have done, why dont you send hundreds of fighters to palestine? nah, you send hundreds of chechens to fight in afghanistan and uzbekistan instead!!!!!!!!! so you know thats really funny to me, you have neverrrrrrrr done anything for palis, you talk about unity, helping each other, and yet chechen fighters go fight in afghanistan instead. and hey im not saying you should go fight in palestine, you do what you want, but dont come nag on us when you have never done anything for us, including that chechen rebel you quoted.

Calm down bro, i understand your tone but your speeking to a brother not a kufar. We know that the Palestinian people have been betrayed on and on. I think the brother was jus saying that you are recieving more coverage than they are.

But it doesnt matter about coverage, we should feel each other pain, we are one body remember. Although the Hammas leader did this for tactical purpose i still dont think that he should of made those comments and made the Chechens feel that they are not important. Thats all we are debating. Inshallah in the long run what Hammas is trying to do will be successfull and we will see the liberation of Al-quds and than the other Muslim lands. Jus take it easy Bros we shouldnt have negativity towards each other :D

[Chechnya]

i never said arab lands did i? i said HOLY LAND so learn how to read instead of putting words in my mouth. Makkah, Madina, and Al-Aqsa are FAR ABOVE chechnya on priority lists so get over it if you dont like it, i sense

Sorry to burst your bubble but no it is NOT more important.
The prophet (saw) said:

“The Blood of a Muslim is worth more than the Ka’aba.”

in Chechnya the blood of Muslims is being shed in vast amounts over the last 12 years - 25% of the nation has been wiped out, including 40,000 children.

So your little statement here contradicts what the prophet (saw) taught us - i advise you have a re-think.

NATIONALISM comming in your tone

Im not chechen nor palestinian so how am i being a nationalist? :rollseyes

secondly, again, you couldnt refute me, tell me what good would it do if hamas so russia your so baddddddd, go on tell me. what will you say, ohhhh it shows unity? and, what the heck would that do for us in the long term? NOTHING.

On the contrary - i did refute you. By your logic, it is now permisable for every muslim nation to betray the palestinians and open friendly relations with israel as long it benefits them.

Yes - thats how stupid your logic is.

NOTHING. so no i suggest you think your plan out. secondly go read Islamic history, did you forget the treaty of hudaybiya? the prophet gave muslims back to the pagans as part of the agreement, many were angry and upset, but in the end it was for the best because it eventually led to victory, so this should teach you that in war sometimes hard decisions must be made for the bigger picture. so same in the case, many are angry and upset by these words of khaled, but in the end its for the good when you look at the big picture, YOUR plan does NOTHING for us, and again i tell you to bring me one good thing that would have happened had hamas said russia urrrrrrrr so bad, plz bring me one realistic good thing that would have resulted from it, you wont find any.

Bro , you are missing the main point of the treaty! The treaty was signed so Muslims as well as non-muslims could live in security without fear for their lives.

It was only after the Quraish attacked the allies of the Muslims and blood was shed that the Prophet (saw) announced that the treaty was then void!

So how does that compare to what Hamas did. Did they sign a treaty for the protection of Muslims? No.

Did they even acknowledge their suffering Muslim brothers and sisters? No.

The suffering of Muslims in Chechnya is an "internal affair" according to Hamas.


So your analagy is incorrect and bears little relevance to this situation.

secondly, go learn history, us palestinians have been betrayed so many times i lost count, by egypt, jordan, and on and on. oh yeah and syria, so plz dont tell me about betrayl buddy we knowwwww all about it, to this day palestinians are getting betrayed by their arab 'brethren'

!

So your response is to betray other Muslims in return? Great thinking.

Tell me do you support all Muslims recognising Israel, having friendly relations with Israel, calling palestinian suffering an "internal affair" and calling Israel a great country?

Sounds like you do.

last but not least, hamas didnt betray you AT ALL, words mean nothing, did hamas put a gun in their hand and go killing chechens? NOPE. however so syrians, jordanians, and even lebanease put guns in their hands and killed palestinians, so again go learn some history of the middle-east conflict and then come talk about betrayl of palestinians. and as for arab countries recognizing israel, your already late, they all already do, secretly that is. the only country i dont know which has trade and financial exchanges with israel is syria. and the difference is is that these arab goverments arent doing it for the 'greater' good, their doing it for money and power to keep their own corrupt necks to rule over the arabs thats all.

Again, you miss the point.

All these regimes in the Muslim world are corrupt with little care for Muslims. The difference is the Mujahideen in Chechnya and Hamas and similar groups are supposedly Islamic groups.
One has come tp expect betray from some dodgy arab nationalist government but NOT from supposed Islamic groups. If all the islamic brother start betraying each other then there is nothing left for the Muslims.

You keep speaking of all the corrupt arab regimes who betrayed palestine - and i agree with you - yet you fail to realise now Hamas is doing the exact same thing and for some reason you support it when Hamas do it but get angry when other governments do it?

Again doesnt make much sense to me.

and you know, can you tell me what chechens have done for palestinian muslims? i may be ignorant, but i dont recall a single thing you have done, why dont you send hundreds of fighters to palestine?

May be you are a little ignorant on this matter.
At the start of the second intifada, Chechen commander Shamil Basayev offered to send 150 fighters to Palestine to help - Sheikh Ahmed Yassin at the time said there was no need since Chechnya needed the fighters itself as the second war had just started and the Russians were advncing all over Chechnya

nah, you send hundreds of chechens to fight in afghanistan and uzbekistan instead!!!!!!!!! so you know thats really funny to me, you have neverrrrrrrr done anything for palis, you talk about unity, helping each other, and yet chechen fighters go fight in afghanistan instead. and hey im not saying you should go fight in palestine, you do what you want, but dont come nag on us when you have never done anything for us, including that chechen rebel you quoted.

Wow

Finally you have me convinced that you and Hamas are just Arab nationalists.

So some Chechen brothers leave to help brothers and sisters in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan and you try to make it as if its something bad! Subhanallah.

Chechen fighters made their offer to send fighters to Palestine - they made the offer when they were in trouble themselves but still offered to send the fighters - the offer was refused like i explained above.

Your posts are seething with arab nationalism - you dont seem to understand the concept of Ummah.
You think that helping Muslims in afghanistan or uzbekistan isnt as important as going to palestine, even when they dont want you.

Do you even know what is happening to our brothers and sisters in Uzbekistan and all the suffering that is happening there?? How can you dismiss that so easily just like Hamas dismissed the suffering of Chechens so easily?
You complain when you feel Arab goverments have betrayed Palestine yet you support it when Hamas do the same.

[Nisrin]

its called being smart, guys this is war u know? to win war u need tactics and as the prophet said war is deception. the hamas leader said that because it will help them out, because the russians will fund them and give them back door weapons to use against israel. whats the use of hamas saying u russians are so badddddddd down with u!!!!!!!!! it wud be of no use, instead it wud now make usa, israel, and russia vs hamas. getting the russians on their side is very good for the way things are, first take care of israel, then take care of the rest. the only reason arabs are stuck is because of israel, how the hell u expect to let Islam win when ur holy lands are occupied and stuck? first free the holy places then get to the rest, like how the prophet did, free Makkah, then move on and take care of the persians and romans in persia and jerusalem.

Salaam wa alaikoem

I agree with you, that is also what i thought at the beginning...

And by the way chechny.....I am a woman not a man, so why do you call me bro:-[ But doesn;t matter...

Hamas haven't betrayed chechaneyen people...ok you feel that way, but they just didn;t....and they have to think first about the palestinian by the way on the moment....

I know a bit about the checheneyen people, cause my grandmother have a checheneyen woman as neighbour and i have talked with her a few times.
But sometimes you have to help yourself, before you can help others.
Sorry...:-[

wa alaikoem salaam

[Woodrow]

Sadly because they are not being killed by Americans or Jews, the Deaths of Muslims in Russia do not count. It is of no concern that in the past 250 years more Muslims have died in Russia and China then the total population of the World's Arab nations.

There has been an ongoing genocide of Muslims in Russia and China that makes the Jewish Holocaust look small by comparesion. It has been going on for at least 250 years non-stop and still continues. About the only remnants left of Islam in Russia are the remaining Chechnyans and few surviving Tatars. Gone are The Circassians, Gone are most of the vast Tatar tribes, gone are the People who built great Masjids from Moscow to Minsk and all that remains today are the onion top domes of Christian cathedrals that were once proud mosques or copied after the destroyed mosques.

Now it is true that Muslims do make up about 25 million Russians today. But that is only because their homelands were annexed by Russia. Many of them do not choose to be Russian.

We have abandoned the Chechnyans and then slapped their face by aligning with the Russians.

[Chechnya]

Salaam wa alaikoem

I agree with you, that is also what i thought at the beginning...

And by the way chechny.....I am a woman not a man, so why do you call me bro But doesn;t matter...

Hamas haven't betrayed chechaneyen people...ok you feel that way, but they just didn;t....and they have to think first about the palestinian by the way on the moment....

I know a bit about the checheneyen people, cause my grandmother have a checheneyen woman as neighbour and i have talked with her a few times.
But sometimes you have to help yourself, before you can help others.
Sorry...

wa alaikoem salaam

Salam

Sorry - i didnt realise you were a sis

what do you mean they havent betrayed them?

if muslim countries recognise israel, become friends with israel, call israel a great country, dismiss palestinian suffering as an "internal israeli affair", then that would be a betrayal dont you think?


Chechen representives themselves have condemned what Hamas did and said that groups who support the people slaughtering Muslims in Chechnya are not friends or allies.

putting ones head in the sand doesnt change reality

[Chechen]

:sl:

Ihavent read this posts before , i wonder how can we help our bro and sis from chechnya ...ther are always in my dua'as , i love them by Allah but what else can I do ? :cry:
bro chechen, can u talk about the situation od the sisters ? I ve read terrible things :cry:

Salam sister

Well where I live here in France there are some organizations that are meant to collect money and send it to Chechnya but it ends up in their pockets or gets stolen on the way. There isn't really much you can do to help us just pray and ask Allah to grant us a quick victory as well as every other muslim in need.

Chechnya is Hell on Earth. That's the description everyone gives it. Even on the road entering Grozny(capital city) there is a huge sign that says : Welcome to Hell. 80% of the city is destroyed. 300 000 people in which 42 000 are children have died as a result of these 2 last wars. Men pick up arms and join the Jihad against Russia. The ones that don't leave for war are usually kidnapped, savagely tortured and then killed and buried somewhere in the forest or in the basement of the concentration camp. And yes there are concentration camps in Chechnya which are impossible to get into. Rare are the ones that come out of there alive. Women are also taken away and tortured and often raped. The tortures these people go through are unimaginable. I can tell you some if you want but they are really brutal. Children aren't excluded from the horrors. Children are also killed, tortured and there have also been cases of child rape and even once when a baby got raped. Children are also tricked by being given toys which actually are bombs. And there is so much more going on there. Things you would have never imagined...

[Chechen]

Sadly because they are not being killed by Americans or Jews, the Deaths of Muslims in Russia do not count. It is of no concern that in the past 250 years more Muslims have died in Russia and China then the total population of the World's Arab nations.

There has been an ongoing genocide of Muslims in Russia and China that makes the Jewish Holocaust look small by comparesion. It has been going on for at least 250 years non-stop and still continues. About the only remnants left of Islam in Russia are the remaining Chechnyans and few surviving Tatars. Gone are The Circassians, Gone are most of the vast Tatar tribes, gone are the People who built great Masjids from Moscow to Minsk and all that remains today are the onion top domes of Christian cathedrals that were once proud mosques or copied after the destroyed mosques.

Now it is true that Muslims do make up about 25 million Russians today. But that is only because their homelands were annexed by Russia. Many of them do not choose to be Russian.

We have abandoned the Chechnyans and then slapped their face by aligning with the Russians.

Yeah we've been fighting the Russians for 400 years now and we have gone through everything and don't fear anything now. Don't get me wrong. We aren't losing the war we aren't letting the Russians breathe for a single second. The Russians suffer heavy losses and just a few days ago 10 Russian soldiers were killed and had a BMP destroyed. Just if instead of ignoring us and acting like we weren't there, the Muslim world helped us we would win faster. Don't worry we will finish by winning this war. We always do. Just if the rest of the muslim world helped us we could finish this war before more innocent lives are taken away.

[AvarAllahNoor]

The ummah is divided. Palestine need to concentrate on building itself a better country to live in. The current government are rivals, this will not help them whatsoever.

As for Chechnya i have no comments!

[Nisrin]

Salam

Sorry - i didnt realise you were a sis

what do you mean they havent betrayed them?

if muslim countries recognise israel, become friends with israel, call israel a great country, dismiss palestinian suffering as an "internal israeli affair", then that would be a betrayal dont you think?


Chechen representives themselves have condemned what Hamas did and said that groups who support the people slaughtering Muslims in Chechnya are not friends or allies.

putting ones head in the sand doesnt change reality

Doesn;t matter :-[

You've got a point...

[rav]

I don't think most of you get the point the Chechen is trying to make.

How mad would you all be if the Chechens talked with the Israeli's? Would yoh be angry if Israel started supporting them with weapons? Would you mad if the Chechens and Israeli's became buddies?

If so, then why the souble standard with Hamas, unless we get to the truth, getting rid of all those Jews in Israel is more important to you all than fighting for a patch of dirt with a bunch of Chechens who you all really couldn't care about.

[Chechen]

People don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that I hate Palestinians or that I don't support them for their struggle. I support their cause which is a good one. I just want to say that Hamas have betrayed us and that I have lost all respect for them and that I no longer see them as allies aswell as every Chechen now. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that.

[Jayda]

hola chechen,

i am sorry if i offend you with my question but what is a chechen? there is another user here with a similar name "chechnya" are you related or is this a denomination of islam?

gracias

[Woodrow]

See a short history of the Chechnya Republic. An independant country that has been fighting for freedom from Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya

[Sami Zaatari]

i still support hamas :), they are following the rules of the game, war is deception, they will get funding and weapons through back door channels to use against israel which will free al-aqsa, that is far better than saying **** u russiansssssssssssss what wud that do? NOTHING, so plz ppl be real instead of always usinng ur emotions, to win a war u use ur head, not ur emotion because that will get u killed and defeated.

[Sami Zaatari]

and notice how chechnya cant bring us ONE REALISTIC BENEFIT that wud happen had hamas condemned russia, NOT ONE, hence i rest my case. chechnya u dont know how to fight a war so i suggest u just sit on the side-lines because u offer nothing but nothing. when u can bring me one realistic benefit from hamas' condemnation of russia then respond back, because thats what im asking for. so can u or what? and i know u cant and u know u cant.

[Sami Zaatari]

chechnya expects hamas to fight israel, usa, AND russia. wowwwwwww man ur really good on tactics for war seriously.

[Sami Zaatari]

also another chechen said u dont see hamas as allies anymore, no offense us palestinians never saw u chechens as allies EVER, u never did anything for the palestinian muslims now u come crying foul play, no offense it sounds like cry babying to me. i dont say this to be mean, whats an ally? a person who can protect and defend and fight with u, chechnya is non of that for palestine, see you guys really dont know war seriously, yes we are an ummah but not an allied one, muslims cant protect each other, hence no such thing as allies if u cant offer protection. like i wud call hezbollah an ally of palestinian muslims, because they can protect muslims in palestine and fight with them, now offcourse u can never protect someone 100% but having some protection is better than 0% protection which is what chechens are to palestinian. and hey i wud be saying non of this, but when u chechens start becomming arrogant and ignorant i will expose the facts, your not angels as you try to seem. u want to complain on palis, but what have u done for them? NOTHING, oooo u offered 150 fighters? lol wow lets be serious, and bring a source to confirm that plz. and u will say heyyyyyyyyyy 150 fighters for chechens is alot seeing that their not so strong, but there are more than 150 chechens fighting in afghanistan and uzbekistan, and again im not saying its not good to send fighters there, send 10,000 even. just dont come complaining to palestinians when u have done nothing for them, ok? plz stop mis-interpeting what i say, AGAIN I SAY IT, ITS NOT BAD TO SEND FIGHTERS TO AFGHAN, UZBEK, AND EVEN INDONESIA! send 10,000 if u can, just dont complain on palis saying oooooooo why u do this why u betray us etc etc when u have never done anything for them.

[Goku]

I think Hamas saying Chechnya is an internal problem of Russia is more a political game.

Russia was the first country to invite Hamas to its country. Russia, along with China, also opposed sanctions against Iran and had them diluted. China has deepened already good relations with Pakistan. The Muslim World should be working with Russia and China in a friendly manner, but also stress their concern at the plight of Chechans. Insha'Allah, Chechnya will be free as they deserve to be.

[Chechnya]

Before i answer some of your points - i just wanna say you have answered NONE of my questions or points yet you seem to demand that i answer yours :rollseyes

Dont ask others to do what you cant do yourself

Back to some of you rather childish posts -

Allah (swt) will not change the condition of a people unless they change themselves.
How can you expect victory over our enemies when you cannot even stay loyal to your own brothers?

No-one wants Hamas to fight Russia, India or China - however everyone expects so-called "Islamic" groups to act in a manner that is not hypcritical - Hamas have shown they cannot do that.

As for benefits of showing solidarity with brothers in Chechnyas rather than befriending the murderer of the Chechen people - the Prophet (saw) said:

The Muslim is a brother to the Muslim. He does not do wrong to him, does not forsake him, and. does not betray him

Now tell me, are you trying to contradict the prophets (saw) commandments where he tells Muslims not to betray one another???

And rather than ignoring my questions please answer - if muslim countries recognise israel, become friends with israel, call israel a great country, dismiss palestinian suffering as an "internal israeli affair", then that would be a betrayal dont you think?

And if Chechens did that to the Palestinians, i would be as critical of them as i am of Hamas.
All islamic groups should be united in their struggle, even if its only vocal and moral support of each other - Hamas have shown that they are more an arab nationalist movement rather than an islamic one.

You also seem to demand that Chechen do something for Palestine - well they made their offer and it was refused but at least they made the offer which is more than can be said of arab nationalists of Hamas.
Btw you dont know how many Chechens there in Afghansitan or Uzbeksiatan so stop pretending you do :rollseyes

From a neutral point of view the offer of 150 fighters made is quite interesting since Chechen Mujahideen actually FIGHT - 99% of Chechen operations are against military targets - NOT like hamas operations against cafes or restaurants where they are brave enough to attack anyone but israelis soldiers lol
Just a thought...

My only advice to you can be - nationalism is wretched , leave it as soon as possible. It is not nationalism that will get us victory - you should learn that!

Salam

[Chechnya]

I think Hamas saying Chechnya is an internal problem of Russia is more a political game.

Russia was the first country to invite Hamas to its country. Russia, along with China, also opposed sanctions against Iran and had them diluted. China has deepened already good relations with Pakistan. The Muslim World should be working with Russia and China in a friendly manner, but also stress their concern at the plight of Chechans. Insha'Allah, Chechnya will be free as they deserve to be.

In that case why shouldnt some Muslim countries be working with Israel and calling it a friend and ally if they can personally derive benefit from it?

[Goku]

In that case why shouldnt some Muslim countries be working with Israel and calling it a friend and ally if they can personally derive benefit from it?

Salam Brother Chechnya.

I dont mean to say that the Chechan people should be ignored. Certainly not, they are our brothers and sisters and part of the Ummah. However, when the US was trying to isolate Iran, Russia and China vetoed against that. As friends, the Muslim nations should diplomatically work with Chechnya and Russia to end Russian invasion which is clearly a breach of human rights. That would probably lead to better results than a confrontation, which may escalate the human rights abuses in Chechnya.

[Sami Zaatari]

you see i didnt ignore your points, u ask Q's again, as for arab goverments they already betrayed palestine, so no use there.

secondly u dont follow along, u havent been betrayed, hamas simply said that to get weapons and funding to fight zionists in palestine, and once defeating those zionists hamas can one day help chechnya and all, but now they cant. so they just said that for the bigger picture, which is what i said over and over, if u dont agree FINE, but dont lie and act like an idiot repeating urself as if i said nothing.

thirdly, i asked u the Q first, and u still didnt reply, u cant bring one useful thing that will happen if hamas did that so thanks.

ur last point is funny when u say hamas attack cafes and so on, u are dumb really, last i checked wasnt it chechen rebels who held a school of KIDS hostage? the prophet said dont kill women and children did he not? so why did they intentionally take kids 5 YEAR OLDS and so on as hostages?

now ur not smart again, in israel theres no such thing as innocent civillians, why? BECAUSE ALL ISRAELIS from 18 and above until up to 50 or something like that are SIGNED IN THE ARMY AS RESERVES, so they are all soldiers, so hence when hamas bombs cafes, busses, they are not bombing innocent civillians in town, they are hitting reserve soldiers, now kids and elders have been killed, but hey, what can hamas do? u dont take kids and old ppl beside soldiers now do u? so no hamas doesnt target innocent civillians as u made it out to be, and hamas has conducted many many operations against IDF soldiers, u prove ur stupidity by such comments.

[Sami Zaatari]

i just checked, the maximum age of an israeli being told to serve in army will be 49

[Sami Zaatari]

anyway i have no time for ur childish rants, uve been responded to and exposed im gonna go sleep. vivaaaaaaaaaaa hamas!

[Chechnya]

you see i didnt ignore your points, u ask Q's again, as for arab goverments they already betrayed palestine, so no use there.

Corrupt arab goverments will btray everyone, palestine, chechnya, kashmir, afghansitan - its not surprising any more.

secondly u dont follow along, u havent been betrayed, hamas simply said that to get weapons and funding to fight zionists in palestine, and once defeating those zionists hamas can one day help chechnya and all, but now they cant. so they just said that for the bigger picture, which is what i said over and over, if u dont agree FINE, but dont lie and act like an idiot repeating urself as if i said nothing.

thirdly, i asked u the Q first, and u still didnt reply, u cant bring one useful thing that will happen if hamas did that so thanks.

actually i already answered it but your arab nationalist mind cant seem to get its head around it:
the Prophet (saw) said:

The Muslim is a brother to the Muslim. He does not do wrong to him, does not forsake him, and. does not betray him

if you are betraying basic islamic tenets, how do you expect victory to come to you - THAT is why it is essential for ALL islamic orgs to be on the haqq.
Do you thinking dancing on the graves of 40,000 dead muslim children by joining russia is going to give you victory? lol i cant begin to say how messed up that is

ur last point is funny when u say hamas attack cafes and so on, u are dumb really, last i checked wasnt it chechen rebels who held a school of KIDS hostage? the prophet said dont kill women and children did he not? so why did they intentionally take kids 5 YEAR OLDS and so on as hostages?

My point was spot on and seems to have rattled you :D

If you read it again i said 99% of operations are against military operations - not 100% :rollseyes

the beslan and moscow seige and acts like that are very rare and count for the 1% i mentioned. you can probably count those type of acts on the fingers of two hands.

needless to say the ISLAMIC leadership of Chechnya has many many times CONDEMNED such attacks and all such attacks against women and children whereas Hamas proudly BOASTS of blowing up women and children in cafes and restaurants :rollseyes

LOL do you understand the diffference now?

now ur not smart again, in israel theres no such thing as innocent civillians, why? BECAUSE ALL ISRAELIS from 18 and above until up to 50 or something like that are SIGNED IN THE ARMY AS RESERVES, so they are all soldiers, so hence when hamas bombs cafes, busses, they are not bombing innocent civillians in town, they are hitting reserve soldiers, now kids and elders have been killed, but hey, what can hamas do? u dont take kids and old ppl beside soldiers now do u? so no hamas doesnt target innocent civillians as u made it out to be, and hamas has conducted many many operations against IDF soldiers, u prove ur stupidity by such comments.

the Russian army is also a conscript army, that doesnt mean you can go around killing anyone.

Women and children and the elderly in cafes and restaurants are NOT legitimate targets regardless of what Hamas may tell you.
If Hamas stuck to only targetting active soldiers esp in the occupied areas, it would get more support from people who are otherwise disgusted by their acts.
If you look at Mujahideen in places Kashmir and Chechnya - 99% of the time they fight soldier of the occupation and no-one else.

[Erundur]

Women and children and the elderly in cafes and restaurants are NOT legitimate targets regardless of what Hamas may tell you.
If Hamas stuck to only targetting active soldiers esp in the occupied areas, it would get more support from people who are otherwise disgusted by their acts.
If you look at Mujahideen in places Kashmir and Chechnya - 99% of the time they fight soldier of the occupation and no-one else.

Interesting thought, I know people who would be disgusted if innocents were to be lost, its one thing targeting women and children its another for soldiers.

[Trumble]

now ur not smart again, in israel theres no such thing as innocent civillians, why? BECAUSE ALL ISRAELIS from 18 and above until up to 50 or something like that are SIGNED IN THE ARMY AS RESERVES, so they are all soldiers, so hence when hamas bombs cafes, busses, they are not bombing innocent civillians in town, they are hitting reserve soldiers, now kids and elders have been killed, but hey, what can hamas do? u dont take kids and old ppl beside soldiers now do u? so no hamas doesnt target innocent civillians as u made it out to be, and hamas has conducted many many operations against IDF soldiers, u prove ur stupidity by such comments.

'Stupidity'? You are hardly one to talk, that's perhaps the most pathetic excuse for murdering innocent people I have ever seen.

[SATalha]

Look Brothers and Sisters, what Hammas did was a negative point, but i can see what brother Sami is saying about the long term benefits. Lets hope that their are benefits from this deal or what ever they are doing with the russians. The brothers and sisters in Chechnya i feel are neglected because they are not Arab? Is that an overstatment, correct me if I am wrong Brother Sami. Your question to Brother Chechen about what the Chechens did for the Palestinians was answered, they offered men like the Bro said.

Look we dont need disagreements between each other. As members of this forrum let unite in ourr cuase whether that be for the people of Palestine or Chechnya or Kashmir or Afganistan. I am with all the brothers and sisters in my Ummah! We should all be for our brothers and sisters in the Ummah! Stop the debating on whos cause is more just and whos cause is more important and realise that there is only one cause, the cause of Allah SWT.

Wassalm

[Skillganon]

Look Brothers and Sisters, what Hammas did was a negative point, but i can see what brother Sami is saying about the long term benefits. Lets hope that their are benefits from this deal or what ever they are doing with the russians. The brothers and sisters in Chechnya i feel are neglected because they are not Arab? Is that an overstatment, correct me if I am wrong Brother Sami. Your question to Brother Chechen about what the Chechens did for the Palestinians was answered, they offered men like the Bro said.

Look we dont need disagreements between each other. As members of this forrum let unite in ourr cuase whether that be for the people of Palestine or Chechnya or Kashmir or Afganistan. I am with all the brothers and sisters in my Ummah! We should all be for our brothers and sisters in the Ummah! Stop the debating on whos cause is more just and whos cause is more important and realise that there is only one cause, the cause of Allah SWT.

Wassalm

Good, your observant.I agree let's not lose perspective. Don't forget somalia, Iraq (and afghanistan to an extent.)

[Sami Zaatari]

actually who knows if they offered anything, he has provided no links or sources, and i dont trust him since he is always wrong. and hes a coward who cant answer my Q yet of what good would it do had hamas said **** u russia! he keeps barking around the bush repeating himself over and over again.

and he gets busted for lying saying hamas targets innocent ppl, yet those israelis arent innocent, they are reserves in the israeli army, you know how many lebanease ppl were killed by such reservists in the lebanease war? these israeli reservists bombed the hell out of lebanon and ur saying these ppl are innocent? so mr buddhist i think the idiot is u for trying to make these ppl out to be innocent, yeah u think its ok for them to sit in cafes and then go load a shell to bomb a pali or lebanease house! get real thats not an innocent civillian!

so again kids and elders who get killed in bombings, well thats too bad isnt it u dont take familly on trips with soldiers, thats israels problem theyre all soldiers they made it that way so they have to live with it.

[Truefacts]

Yes, I am completely disagree with Khalid Opinion about Chechen Mujahedien,but Hamas itself is far better than Al Fatah, who basically betrayal Muslims of Palestine. Hamas victory is the output of their corruption.

Think why USA, BRITAIN, EGYPT & ISRAIEL supporting Alfatah & providing arms against Hamas. Because, Hamas brings revolution without any foreign support. They proceed in the field of education, health & social support. Hamas leadership belongs to Palestine & have strong commitment to their cause.

Where as Alfatah is not more than a group of jealous persons & coward people, who face shocked after clear & immense victory of Hamas, they can't accept the reality & involved in conspiracies against Hamas from the first day of election results.

[SATalha]

Yeah bro thanks we musnt forget any of the lands of the Ummah. Include them in ur Dwas everyday Inshallah. Do we have consensus?

[SATalha]

actually who knows if they offered anything, he has provided no links or sources, and i dont trust him since he is always wrong. and hes a coward who cant answer my Q yet of what good would it do had hamas said **** u russia! he keeps barking around the bush repeating himself over and over again.

and he gets busted for lying saying hamas targets innocent ppl, yet those israelis arent innocent, they are reserves in the israeli army, you know how many lebanease ppl were killed by such reservists in the lebanease war? these israeli reservists bombed the hell out of lebanon and ur saying these ppl are innocent? so mr buddhist i think the idiot is u for trying to make these ppl out to be innocent, yeah u think its ok for them to sit in cafes and then go load a shell to bomb a pali or lebanease house! get real thats not an innocent civillian!

so again kids and elders who get killed in bombings, well thats too bad isnt it u dont take familly on trips with soldiers, thats israels problem theyre all soldiers they made it that way so they have to live with it.

Brother Sami your missing the point. forget who is right and who is wrong. like i said we dont need disagreements between us. That is the biggest problem in the Ummah today, Disagreements. If he says that the Chechen leader offered men than I believe him coz he is my bro just as u are my bro. I feel the anger that lies in you and its not helathy, trust me i know. I have been filled with anger for may years as well. however no good actians come out of anger.

So calm down and lets have consensus in the Ummah. for the sake of Allah SWT.

[Skillganon]

Yeah bro thanks we musnt forget any of the lands of the Ummah. Include them in ur Dwas everyday Inshallah. Do we have consensus?

You have one with me,

[Truefacts]

Brother Talha,

Alhamdollilah, we are ONE, any place where Muslims are in problem, I believe that I am in problem, From Kashmir to Chechnya, from Somalia to Palestine, from Afghanistan to Iraq, every where my blood is shedding, I am killing & I am facing problem.

But I am against all those so called Muslims who are getting support from USA alligned forces, who claimed themselves as Liberal or Modernist.

[SATalha]

No doubt bro so am i. If we can get some form of unity in our world than it will be very good. Thats why i dont like the debate that is going on here, it pointless no one is more important than anyone else.

[sameer]

No doubt bro so am i. If we can get some form of unity in our world than it will be very good. Thats why i dont like the debate that is going on here, it pointless no one is more important than anyone else.

I agree..
all this bickering just leads to muslims making musims the enemies.

[Chechen]

Hamas has made a big mistake. They're not going to get any help from Russia I'm sure and if they do then it will somehow turn against them.

And what's this stuff about Chechen fighters in afghanistan and stuff?? Think about it, why would Chechnya send fighters to any other country when they don't have enough for themselves?? And also you say you Palestianians don't see why you should help us cause we never helped you. No that's not right. People should help their brothers when they can and have the possibility. Did Khattab say no I won't help you because Chechnya never did anything for Saudi Arabia? Did Abu Hafs say no I won't help you because Chechnya never did anything for Jordan? No they helped because they don't have a war in their country so they went to help their brothers who are in need. That's how it works and should work and not say no I won't help you because you never helped us. But whatever I'm not trying to say Palestine should send their fighters to Chechnya I'm just saying that what you said is wrong. And we Chechens always supported Palestinians. Don't think we never did we were always worried for them. Just that now Chechens don't have as much respect for them as before. Sure you may have the "support" of Russia an open enemy of Islam but you have lost the support of your Chechen brothers. And the worst is that you're proud of that.

[Chechen]

hola chechen,

i am sorry if i offend you with my question but what is a chechen? there is another user here with a similar name "chechnya" are you related or is this a denomination of islam?

gracias

No offence taken. I understand that you don't know of Chechnya, most people in the west don't. Basically Chechnya is a muslim country that has been at war with Russia for 400 years to get their independance. And a Chechen is someone who comes from Chechnya.

[Woodrow]

No doubt bro so am i. If we can get some form of unity in our world than it will be very good. Thats why i dont like the debate that is going on here, it pointless no one is more important than anyone else.

Excellent Point. We have too much division as it is. I believe this thread has made it's point about Chechnya having been overlooked by much of the world along with many other Muslims in Russia and China.

Some of us do believe Hamas made an error in chosing to align itself with Russia. But, only history will eventualy prove if that is error or wisdom. In either case it is not to our benefit to dismiss Hamas or the Palestinians.

I am closing the thread, but not deleting it. It will remain available for viewing by any interested members. However, there is no good to come from leaving it open for further alienation among ourselves.


Arguement among ourselves only serves shaytan and does no good for the Ummah.


:threadclo