format_quote Originally Posted by
Pygoscelis
In other threads this argument has come up a few times so I thought it deserved its own thread.
Theists frequently state that the universe is too wonderful to have always existed or happened by chance. It must have been designed by intelligence.
This is a very well known argument known as the watchmaker argument.
The typical atheist counter to it is to ask "What created God?"
If the universe requires a creator because it is so complex and wonderful, certainly something even MORE complex and wonderful requires a creator even moreso. God is more wonderful and complex than the universe, so God requires a creator. No?
If no, then the premise is violated and wonderfulness and complexity does not necesitate creation.
Thoughts?
Ok so your question is "Who created god?"
Fair enough, we'll start with defining some important terms:
1. The Creator: somoene who creates, that is,
literally creates.
i.e.
Can create being from non being. In other words,
can bring something into existance from a state of non existance.
that is, as a consequence of the above, is
Able to defy law of conservation.
e.g. According to Quantum Cosmology, this universe came into existance from nothing, literally nothing. That is, this universe was literally created.
Baking a cake or writing a poem is
not an example of creation. It's just transferring matter from one form to another.
2. spacetime:
The four-dimensional continuum of one temporal and three spatial coordinates in which any event or physical object is located.
spacetime originated with the big bang, that is,
prior to the existance of the instanton,
there was no space or time.
instanton: "Particle" that describes the spontaneous appearance of a universe from literally nothing.
Source:
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_qc.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/spacetime
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Having defined those important terms.
We can now proceed to define a characteristic of Allah, 'The Creator',
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Definition:
"
The Creator is by definition something that
can create being from non being (our universe for example),
to suggest that 'The Creator' was created is itself a contradictory statement. On top of that,
God is time independent, so to ask how he began (or what created him) isn't a valid question to start with. Because that implies something preceeded him, which contradicts the definition."
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As a result of that definition, the answer to your question naturally is 'nothing could have created him'.
Hope that helps inshalah.
all the best
ps: the definition is not one that was invented recently to adapt to new scientific models... it's compatability with quantum cosmology just serves to make it even more credible. Especially aspects like spactime independence which was possibly confusing for previous generations, hence the hadith quoted by Malaikah below.