Local Councils in Britain to spy on Muslims

[sonz]

The British government is launching a new controversial scheme, said to be costing pnds 5 million, to help local authorities spy on Muslims in what it describes as a new campaign to root out extremism, The Daily Mirror reported.

“Council staff will be asked to establish systems to share potential risks or concerns at the local level with councils and staff acting as the eyes and ears for police in countering threats,” the paper said.

British Communities Secretary Ruth Kelly, the architect of Prime Minister Tony Blair’s so-called diversity and integration policy told The Mirror, one of UK’s top tabloids that supports the ruling Labour Party, that the package will “enable us to harness the long-established expertise of local authorities in developing deep insights into their areas in order to meet the challenge of tackling violent extremism”.

"Extremism is an issue for all of us. Local authorities must rise to the challenge too," Kelly said.

The move is not the first in a list of radical policies adopted by the British government following last year’s alleged terror plot to bomb planes bound for major U.S. cities.

Representatives of the British Muslim Community warn that such moves, that include racial and faith profiling of Muslims would backfire and hamper efforts to integrate them into the British society, something the government has long claimed it’s trying to inculcate.

Similar concerns were raised by local council trade unions who described Kelly’s plan as a threat against the council staff as they could be targeted by “extremists”.

Many members of Parliament in the Labour Party’s own ranks, as well as opposition politicians and Muslim groups and individuals such as the Muslim Council of Britain, the British Muslim Forum and Lord Nazir Ahmed, the Labour peer, blame the British foreign policy, especially its involvement in the U.S-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, for radicalizing young Muslims in UK.

-- AJP and Agencies

[England]

Well something must be done. Muslim extremism is there and needs rooting out. The worst thing that you could do is nothing and wait until after more innocent people have died to find out who these extremists are. The MI5 are spying on them as we speak so it's nothing new.

If you're innocent then you have nothing to hide and nothing to worry about. If you are an extremist planning out attacks then this is blow to you.

We cannot rely on muslims to pinpoint the bad ones out to the police. This was tried and simply didn't work. Noone reported them which has led to surveillance in the muslim community.

[Sabbir_1]

why is it only the muslims, why not the other terrorist groups..

Muslim extremism is there and needs rooting out

blame the British foreign policy, especially its involvement in the U.S-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, for radicalizing young Muslims in UK.

We cannot rely on muslims to pinpoint the bad ones out to the police. This was tried and simply didn't work. Noone reported them which has led to surveillance in the muslim community.

u think there that stupid, they will tell there muslim bro's/ sis about there terrorists activities..i wouldnt anyway..

[England]

why is it only the muslims, why not the other terrorist groups..

The only terrorist organisation that are a threat to our people are the muslim extremists.

blame the British foreign policy, especially its involvement in the U.S-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, for radicalizing young Muslims in UK.

I don't believe we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan or any other country that doesn't pose a threat to British interests. Our troops should be brought back to protect the British Isles. Even so muslim community should be under surveillance for any extremists because there is a threat within that community.

u think there that stupid, they will tell there muslim bro's/ sis about there terrorists activities..i wouldnt anyway..

Telling your "muslim bros/sisters" about terrorist activities within the community is incorrect. The 1st you should report to is the POLICE. The people that can actually prevent such activities taking place.

What do you mean by "I wouldn't anyway?" Are you saying you wouldn't report terrorist activities? You wouldn't report them to the police and let little children die and innocent men and women. If this is what you are saying then you have proved my point of why there should surveillance within the muslim community.
Again if this is what you are saying and that you would let innocent men, women and children die then you will not do God proud, I promise you that.

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[Trumble]

why is it only the muslims, why not the other terrorist groups..

I don't like this either, but I have to ask.. now the Provos have given up and gone home WHAT other terrorist groups?

[Sabbir_1]

What do you mean by "I wouldn't anyway?" Are you saying you wouldn't report terrorist activities? You wouldn't report them to the police and let little children die and innocent men and women. If this is what you are saying then you have proved my point of why there should surveillance within the muslim community.
Again if this is what you are saying and that you would let innocent men, women and children die then you will not do God proud, I promise you that.

I should of explained myself clearer. im saying that if i was a terrorist (which im not) , i would'nt tell others what i would do.. i dont think any terrorist would

i am against terrorism, i dont support terrorism.. but think about it.. before the war in afghanistan and iraq.. there was no threat or terrorist attack in the uk.. but now after the war in iraq and afghanistan how many terrorists attacks have u had from the muslims . 1.
7/7 thats all .im not surprised that there aint been more..

i hope there aint anymore.. but i wont be surprised if there.. are more attacks in the uk...

Again if this is what you are saying and that you would let innocent men, women and children die then you will not do God proud, I promise you that.

Tell that to bush and blair the christian fanatics who have killed hundreds and thusands of innoncent iraqis.... there the biggest terrorists in the world....

[England]

I should of explained myself clearer. im saying that if i was a terrorist (which im not) , i would'nt tell others what i would do.. i dont think any terrorist would

i am against terrorism, i dont support terrorism.. but think about it.. before the war in afghanistan and iraq.. there was no threat or terrorist attack in the uk.. but now after the war in iraq and afghanistan how many terrorists attacks have u had from the muslims . 1.
7/7 thats all .im not surprised that there aint been more..

i hope there aint anymore.. but i wont be surprised if there.. are more attacks in the uk...

There was a threat of terrorism before Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S was attacked on September 11th but there was no war going off. Britain came out and condemned the terrorists and by standing with the Americans which is what we should always do we then became under threat.
What about Bali? They're not fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan yet they got bombed by muslim extremists and so did Turkey.

Tell that to bush and blair the christian fanatics who have killed hundreds and thusands of innoncent iraqis.... there the biggest terrorists in the world....

I wouldn't say he was a Christian fanatic at all. I would say he's quite the opposite. He's too politically correct. Political correction is crap. I want Blair and Labour out. They're destroying the country.

[Sabbir_1]

There was a threat of terrorism before Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S was attacked on September 11th but there was no war going off.

Just cuz there was no war in iraq or afghanistan when 9/11 happened. dont mean that there was war in other countries..involving american and british soldiers.. I personally believe the american govermant was behind 9/11 themselves.. u probably dont believethat. thats fine.. but if osama bin laden did do it. then it was probably becasue of what was happening in palestine and the otr muslim countries where ameican soldiers are.

Britain came out and condemned the terrorists and by standing with the Americans which is what we should always do we then became under threat.

it was'nt only britain that stood wid da americans, other countried did to. but they didnt get attacked why is that? because they didnt go to war in iraq and afhanistan.

What about Bali? They're not fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan yet they got bombed by muslim extremists and so did Turkey.

Becasue there are western people in those muslim countries, and i gues they didnt like there presence. and so they bombed them..

wouldn't say he was a Christian fanatic at all. I would say he's quite the opposite. He's too politically correct. Political correction is crap. I want Blair and Labour out. They're destroying the country.

He is, bush is definently anyway saying god told me togo to war.. what a fool..

[Trumble]

but if osama bin laden did do it. then it was probably becasue of what was happening in palestine and the otr muslim countries where ameican soldiers are.

Conspiracy fantasies aside, which countries were they in, and what were they doing there that justified murdering thousands of innocent people?

it was'nt only britain that stood wid da americans, other countried did to. but they didnt get attacked why is that? because they didnt go to war in iraq and afhanistan

That may well be true, but although I have always oppose involvement in Iraq (Afghanistan was inevitable.. the Taliban should have handed over bin Laden) I have no wish to see British foreign policy determined by the sort of people who

Becasue there are western people in those muslim countries, and i gues they didnt like there presence. and so they bombed them..

Charming. So does that mean those people who don't like muslims being somewhere are at liberty to bomb them as well?

He is, bush is definently anyway saying god told me togo to war.. what a fool..

I agree, but then I don't believe in God. As you do, how is that justication any more foolish than that of Islamic extremists?

[Sabbir_1]

which countries were they in, and what were they doing there that justified murdering thousands of innocent people?

saudi arabia....stealing the muslim oil.. giving weapons to israel to kill palestinians..

how is that justication any more foolish than that of Islamic extremists?

there aint no justification for it, there both wrong.. Its wrong to kill innoncent people.. Those terrorists have there own interpretation of the quran... they just read the verse kill all disbelievers wherever u ifnd them.. and think its wright to go and kill innoncent people..

Charming. So does that mean those people who don't like muslims being somewhere are at liberty to bomb them as well?

No. There are other reasons why bali or turkey where bombed..

Becasue there are western people in those muslim countries, and i gues they didnt like there presence. and so they bombed them..

that was just my opinion..

[Maarya]

can i just say, a couple of attacks have been done by people who 'call themselves muslims' and all of a sudden the whole world is saying Muslim Terrorists, bt what about a few years ago between ireland and uk, when the unionists (irish protestants) were bombing uk, nobody said irish terrorists or protestant terrorists then did they?
why does the religion make a difference? they're all terrorists and they are certainly not muslim coz its totally against our beleifs.

[England]

can i just say, a couple of attacks have been done by people who 'call themselves muslims' and all of a sudden the whole world is saying Muslim Terrorists, bt what about a few years ago between ireland and uk, when the unionists (irish protestants) were bombing uk, nobody said irish terrorists or protestant terrorists then did they?
why does the religion make a difference? they're all terrorists and they are certainly not muslim coz its totally against our beleifs.

That's funny. Now you're generalising. "The whole world is saying Muslim Terrorists." Why criticise people for that when you're doing the exact same thing?

We're going off topic anyway.

[Maarya]

That's funny. Now you're generalising. "The whole world is saying Muslim Terrorists." Why criticise people for that when you're doing the exact same thing?

We're going off topic anyway.

u get wt i'm tryin to say tho

[FBI]

:sl:

not muslim

Sister that's not grounds for takfir.

[FBI]

edit

[England]

:sl:

Huh? so she's a terrorist, just beacuse she's a muslim.

Huh? :uuh:

[Trumble]

saudi arabia....stealing the muslim oil..

Nonsense. How were they supposed to be 'stealing' the stuff, exactly.. do you have anything to support that? Oil is useless to the Saudis unless they sell it, and they DO sell it; that's the basis of their whole economy. They also have a huge influence on the cartel (OPEC) price for which it is sold, and have had for nearly half a century.

[FBI]

Huh? :uuh:

:sl:

got the wrong end of the stick I apoligies :-[

[Fishman]

The only terrorist organisation that are a threat to our people are the muslim extremists.

:sl:
Wrong. The BNP has recently been investigated for having huge amounts of explosives. Or are black and asian people not 'our people'?

If I was elected to become PM I would sort Islamist terrorists out. I would just stop all the stupid wars, quit the US alliance thing until they behave properly, punish bad people and governments regardless of wether they are western or eastern, and work to get rid of discrimination against all people and races, including Muslims. If Muslims were teated better, then they would not commit terrorist attacks. You cannot possibly expect the country to be safe from these fanatics until the situation is better for all Muslims.
Putting restrictive measures such as surveylance in place may decrease the number of successful attacks, but the number of attempted ones would probably soar.
:w:

[Maarya]

:sl:

Sister that's not grounds for takfir.

i dnt understand wt u mean :-[

[Skillganon]

i dnt understand wt u mean :-[

He mean's post 11. Saying that they are "not muslim"

Making Takfir is calling others desblievers.
It is not part of Islam for muslim to make such claim so freely and it is prohibited to a certain extent.
Check out other threads on takfeer (takfir), or ask in the basic section so you are more aware.

Don't worry sis, we understood what you was trying to say and the point you where trying to get across. :)

[England]

:sl:
Wrong. The BNP has recently been investigated for having huge amounts of explosives. Or are black and asian people not 'our people'?

If I was elected to become PM I would sort Islamist terrorists out. I would just stop all the stupid wars, quit the US alliance thing until they behave properly, punish bad people and governments regardless of wether they are western or eastern, and work to get rid of discrimination against all people and races, including Muslims. If Muslims were teated better, then they would not commit terrorist attacks. You cannot possibly expect the country to be safe from these fanatics until the situation is better for all Muslims.
Putting restrictive measures such as surveylance in place may decrease the number of successful attacks, but the number of attempted ones would probably soar.
:w:

Muslims are treated better by the government than us non-muslims. The Christians get the thick of it. Our government bends over backwards for muslims. "This would be offensive to muslims, let's ban it. Oh and that too. Christmas decorations too."
When you say "punish bad people" would that include non-muslims that don't follow Islam? Would that include on how women dress themselves? Would you ban music, the St. George flag? You know what I mean. Anything that you would regard as "haram" would you ban non-muslims from it?

[FBI]

Muslims are treated better by the government than us non-muslims. The Christians get the thick of it. Our government bends over backwards for muslims. "This would be offensive to muslims, let's ban it. Oh and that too. Christmas decorations too."
When you say "punish bad people" would that include non-muslims that don't follow Islam? Would that include on how women dress themselves? Would you ban music, the St. George flag? You know what I mean. Anything that you would regard as "haram" would you ban non-muslims from it?

Yeah, were given 5 star treatment don't we, if we mention Palastine and the word Jihad togvether we have MI5 breathing down our necks, and as for your rant about banning stuff u do know it wasn't muslims who suggested that.

[England]

Yeah, were given 5 star treatment don't we, if we mention Palastine and the word Jihad togvether we have MI5 breathing down our necks, and as for your rant about banning stuff u do know it wasn't muslims who suggested that.

I wasn't saying it was muslims that were saying that although there have been muslims that have tried to sue because they offended them which is why some things are banned in some places. The fact is that the government is trying not to offend muslims but they couldn't give a rats ar.. if they offend Christians.

[Skillganon]

Muslims are treated better by the government than us non-muslims. The Christians get the thick of it. Our government bends over backwards for muslims. "This would be offensive to muslims, let's ban it. Oh and that too. Christmas decorations too."
When you say "punish bad people" would that include non-muslims that don't follow Islam? Would that include on how women dress themselves? Would you ban music, the St. George flag? You know what I mean. Anything that you would regard as "haram" would you ban non-muslims from it?

How are muslim banning all this thing when we have not the authority.
It's the current goverment you have problem with and so does many muslim.

[FBI]

I wasn't saying it was muslims that were saying that although there have been muslims that have tried to sue because they offended them which is why some things are banned in some places. The fact is that the government is trying not to offend muslims but they couldn't give a rats ar.. if they offend Christians.

:sl:

And thats our fault how, your problem is with the goverment's attitude towards Christmas not the muslims, we never put those perposals through it was the goverment.

[England]

How are muslim banning all this thing when we have not the authority.
It's the current goverment you have problem with and so does many muslim.

Um.. I think that's what I've said in my last post?

[England]

:sl:

And thats our fault how, your problem is with the goverment's attitude towards Christmas not the muslims, we never put those perposals through it was the goverment.

We are talking about how the government is putting muslims as a priority? It's not just Christmas the government has fiddled with. I've heard the National flag is banned in Blackburn? "It could offend muslims."

[FBI]

We are talking about how the government is putting muslims as a priority? It's not just Christmas the government has fiddled with. I've heard the National flag is banned in Blackburn? "It could offend muslims."

But again u seem to be blamming this on us when we don't ask or this, go to the man who introduced the banning of the flag.

[Skillganon]

We are talking about how the government is putting muslims as a priority? It's not just Christmas the government has fiddled with. I've heard the National flag is banned in Blackburn? "It could offend muslims."

Are you sure this is what they sad, and this is what happened. Please verify it.

If that is the case, than just for be aware they are not doing it for muslims.

[England]

But again u seem to be blamming this on us when we don't ask or this, go to the man who introduced the banning of the flag.

Not at all. What this stemmed from was that someone said that the government treats muslims bad, but the government treats Christians and non muslims alot worst.

[England]

Are you sure this is what they sad, and this is what happened. Please verify it.

If that is the case, than just for be aware they are not doing it for muslims.

I cannot google it but it is what I learned from my uncle who lives in Blackburn.

[Maarya]

^^^
thanx

[Duhaa]

Not at all. What this stemmed from was that someone said that the government treats muslims bad, but the government treats Christians and non muslims alot worst.

Naa, you gotta experience being a Muslim before you say that...:rollseyes

But on the subject of spies and all these things against Muslims, to quote a community leader off the bbc,

"It would be nice to wake up to find that all of a sudden everyone thinks my faith is banal, rather than something to panic about."

Source (at the bottom)

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
You know, if you're a clever muslim, like, say me, you can so easily turn this "negative" into a positive. Look at it this way: the council wants to spy on muslims, so let us show them the true definition of Islam and muslims by following the Quran and sunnah.

Though, to be honest, only clever muslims would understand what I've just written.

:statisfie

[Sabbir_1]

bro sahiob. ur right . mashallah we need more cleaver muslims like u on this forum..

[Fishman]

:sl:

Muslims are treated better by the government than us non-muslims. The Christians get the thick of it. Our government bends over backwards for muslims. "This would be offensive to muslims, let's ban it. Oh and that too. Christmas decorations too."

The Christmas decorations are not offensive to Muslims. If I was PM I would allow them. It's not about discrimination against non-Muslims, it's about insanely over the op political correctness from people who don't want to be sued to pieces because they accidentally offended somebody.

As somebody else said, you have had no experience of being a Muslim, and therfore cannot possibly know what it is like. Muslims commonly get stopped and detained at airports for no reason other than that they are Muslims, who are 'possible terrorists' in the eyes of the current leaders. Some Muslims are forced to change their names in order to get jobs. I've been spat at and had abuse shouted at me from across the street. Does this stuff often happen to white Christians? No, of course not.

When you say "punish bad people" would that include non-muslims that don't follow Islam? Would that include on how women dress themselves? Would you ban music, the St. George flag? You know what I mean. Anything that you would regard as "haram" would you ban non-muslims from it?

No. When I said bad people, I meant people who commit crimes, but who are too powerful to be sorted out by police, such as leaders of nations. What I mean here is human rights abusers and opressors, such as Syria, Iran, Egypt, Lybia, USA, Israel, China, Russia etc. I don't like despots, whether they are 'Islamic' or not, whether they are Western or not. I also don't like neo-Nazis and racists, and if I was PM I would do everything possible to keep them from commiting their crimes.
:w:

[England]

:sl:


The Christmas decorations are not offensive to Muslims. If I was PM I would allow them. It's not about discrimination against non-Muslims, it's about insanely over the op political correctness from people who don't want to be sued to pieces because they accidentally offended somebody.

As somebody else said, you have had no experience of being a Muslim, and therfore cannot possibly know what it is like. Muslims commonly get stopped and detained at airports for no reason other than that they are Muslims, who are 'possible terrorists' in the eyes of the current leaders. Some Muslims are forced to change their names in order to get jobs. I've been spat at and had abuse shouted at me from across the street. Does this stuff often happen to white Christians? No, of course not.


No. When I said bad people, I meant people who commit crimes, but who are too powerful to be sorted out by police, such as leaders of nations. What I mean here is human rights abusers and opressors, such as Syria, Iran, Egypt, Lybia, USA, Israel, China, Russia etc. I don't like despots, whether they are 'Islamic' or not, whether they are Western or not. I also don't like neo-Nazis and racists, and if I was PM I would do everything possible to keep them from commiting their crimes.
:w:

Good response. Fishman for PM anyone? :)

Aside, I don't know whether the above is partially answered but I want to know how muslims minds think. If you, being muslim, became Prime Minister would you scrap the national flag as, admit it, isn't to your liking? The same with music, it's "haram," ban booze, it's "haram?" Or would you be happy to live in a multicultural society where everyone can do as they please as long as it isn't a crime?

[cihad]

doesn't matter who spies on you

Allah is always watching