U.S. Launches Attack on Suspected Al Qaeda Members in Somalia

[AntonK]

United States forces have launched a strike against suspected Al Qaeda members in Somalia, a senior U.S. official tells FOX News.

A U.S. Air Force AC-130 gunship carried out the attack as part of an ongoing operation. The official reports casualties on the ground, but is not sure if they are suspected terrorists.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242460,00.html

[AntonK]

(CBS/AP) A U.S. Air Force gunship has conducted a strike against suspected members of al Qaeda in Somalia, CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports exclusively.

The targets included the senior al Qaeda leader in East Africa and an al Qaeda operative wanted for his involvement in the 1998 bombings of two American embassies in Africa, Martin reports. Those terror attacks killed more than 200 people.

The AC-130 gunship is capable of firing thousands of rounds per second, and sources say a lot of bodies were seen on the ground after the strike, but there is as yet, no confirmation of the identities.

The gunship flew from its base in Dijibouti down to the southern tip of Somalia, Martin reports, where the al Qaeda operatives had fled after being chased out of the capital of Mogadishu by Ethiopian troops backed by the United States.

Once they started moving, the al Qaeda operatives became easier to track, and the U.S. military started preparing for an air strike, using unmanned aerial drones to keep them under surveillance and moving the aircraft carrier Eisenhower out of the Persian Gulf toward Somalia. But when the order was given, the mission was assigned to the AC-130 gunship operated by the U.S. Special Operations command.

If the attack got the operatives it was aimed at, reports Martin, it would deal a major blow to al Qaeda in East Africa.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2335451.shtml

[Goku]

What a terrible situation for the Somali people.

As if the Afghan and Iraq wars wernt enough, now that bush administration is starting another war in Africa. Somalia, a poor nation, can hardly fight back. This is a bully attack by the US.

May God bring peace in Somalia, Ameen.

[Warthog]

What a terrible situation for the Somali people.

As if the Afghan and Iraq wars wernt enough, now that bush administration is starting another war in Africa. Somalia, a poor nation, can hardly fight back. This is a bully attack by the US.

May God bring peace in Somalia, Ameen.

Yawn, oink.......if you are going to complain about the many evils of the U.S., at least complain about the true ones. They are not attacking the somali people or even somalia. They are attacking terrorists.

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[snakelegs]

the u.s. can attack anybody, any time. all it has to do is say "suspected al qaeda"

[Kswiss]

I am not really surprised that America bombed Somalia.

Afghanistan is poor.
Iraq is poor.
Somalia is poor.

:cry:

[Woodrow]

Up Date from another news agency,

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. gunship has conducted a strike against two suspected al Qaeda operatives in southern Somalia, but it was not known whether the mission was successful, U.S. news networks reported on Monday.

The U.S. Air Force plane, operated by the Special Operations Command, flew from its base in Djibouti to the southern tip of Somalia, where the al Qaeda suspects were believed to have fled from the capital Mogadishu, U.S. networks reported.

Pentagon spokesman said he had no information on the reports.

The two suspected al Qaeda operatives were not named but CBS News said one was a suspect in the car bomb attacks on the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 and the other was the Islamist group's senior leader in East Africa.

The report said many bodies were seen on the ground after the attack by the AC-130 gunship, but the identities of the dead were not confirmed.

The al Qaeda suspects fled Mogadishu after Ethiopian troops invaded on December 28 and were tracked with unmanned aerial drones as they moved south, CBS said.

NBC News reported that U.S. officials said Ethiopian forces, which had conducted raids in Somalia, had gathered intelligence on three potential al Qaeda leaders believed responsible for the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Tanzania.

NBC reported that the airstrikes were part of an ongoing operation and that the U.S. aircraft carrier Eisenhower was moving from the North Arabian Sea toward Somalia to support the operation.

Source: http://www.banadir.com/US_targeted_a...pects_in.shtml

[Keltoi]

If the intel is good I say go for it.

[AHMED_GUREY]

this is the third time in one month that the US illegally attacked my people under the disguise of the terrorist label

"I understand there are so many dead bodies and animals in the village," the senior source told Reuters.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L09911049.htm

dead animals+dead bodies = innocent Farmers or innocent Nomads

but i'm aware of the US airforces track record in other muslim countries and it's blind onslaught on the innocent ones so this doesn't suprise me at all

the residents of Mogadishu said last month that the war planes that hit the airport came from the Sea, after these cowardly acts on a small village it's very easy to figure out who they were.

and what's with these Somali leaders today from Somalia to Djibouti what a cowards

how dare they aaarggghhhhhhhhh may they burn in hell :anger:

[~*~Serene~*~]

If the intel is good I say go for it.

^ how reliable is the US intel? pshhh. when will people stop follow media hype? Didn't the US make false claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Now the US is claiming SOMALIS have al qaeda members ?

How are Somalis even linked to al qaeda?:? None of this makes sense at all. Where is the proof? Why are people not asking more questions?

[north_malaysian]

the u.s. can attack anybody, any time. all it has to do is say "suspected al qaeda"

LOL!!!!

I wonder, if US already attacked every single Muslim nations, erased all of us Muslims from this world - WORLD MUST BE A BETTER PLACE, right?:exhausted

[Trumble]

^ how reliable is the US intel?
How are Somalis even linked to al qaeda?

I suspect very reliable in this case if particular individuals had been visually tracked by drones all the way from Mogadishu. There seems no real reason to doubt that Somali Islamists were sheltering al Qaeda operatives, either. They are and have been active in East Africa, where else would they be based other than in Somalia?

The question here is whether the US action was proportionate. There is no evidence more than one building was attacked (there was no 'bombing' BTW, the Spectre is a gunship not a bomber), but it's hardly the most subtle weapon in the world and it was highly likely innocent civilians would be killed. How many were, if any, we don't know... if the Islamists were with the al Qaeda types you can hardly qualify them as 'innocent' in that context - the Americans certainly wouldn't. It's too early to judge until we know exactly who was killed.

the residents of Mogadishu said last month that the war planes that hit the airport came from the Sea, after these cowardly acts on a small village it's very easy to figure out who they were.

"Easy", but almost certainly wrong. The direction from which a bombing run is made rarely has much to do with where the planes may have taken off from. The obvious low level approach to the airport in order to remain undetected as long as possible is 'from the sea' wherever the planes were based; go look at a map of the city. The Ethiopians have plenty of planes to do that job, so no need to conjour up the boogie-man in that instance.

[Skillganon]

I suspect very reliable in this case if particular individuals had been visually tracked by drones all the way from Mogadishu. There seems no real reason to doubt that Somali Islamists were sheltering al Qaeda operatives, either. They are and have been active in East Africa, where else would they be based other than in Somalia?

Actually by thei line of reasoning majority if the members here are al-qaeda now. Since we all oppose the U.S gov and see it now (gathering of what they are doing) an open enemy and legitimate target for those who seek retaliation.

The question here is whether the US action was proportionate. There is no evidence more than one building was attacked (there was no 'bombing' BTW, the Spectre is a gunship not a bomber), but it's hardly the most subtle weapon in the world and it was highly likely innocent civilians would be killed. How many were, if any, we don't know... if the Islamists were with the al Qaeda types you can hardly qualify them as 'innocent' in that context - the Americans certainly wouldn't. It's too early to judge until we know exactly who was killed.

.

The question was wheter the U.S action is legal if any if it action has gone to shown they are not. They have proven the muslim they are open enemy. Don't be dumfounded by their speech of "democracy".
Just a mere amusement.

Who cares if was a spectre or a al-qaeda homing missile. They are fully aware of the capabilites and destruction of the weapon. The target was intended, bear in mind that if you any muslim was their even members from here will be targeted for you strict conformity to Islam and their desire to govern by it, even if al-qaeda was their or not.
Their has many previous post by members here concerning this. It just proves the point.

[AHMED_GUREY]

"Easy", but almost certainly wrong. The direction from which a bombing run is made rarely has much to do with where the planes may have taken off from. The obvious low level approach to the airport in order to remain undetected as long as possible is 'from the sea' wherever the planes were based; go look at a map of the city. The Ethiopians have plenty of planes to do that job, so no need to conjour up the boogie-man in that instance.

that's a lame comeback the habashi's don't have a navy and their airforce base is in Bilate and that's in Afariland

if the habashi's had the right planes as you claim then why didn't they carry out today's attack instead of the US?

[Skillganon]

Oyeah I forgot another one. These Warlords are terrorist and by U.S support and abeting of terrorist they are deemed a legit target for war.
Sister Mariam has provided you a very good answer.

[Trumble]

that's a lame comeback the habashi's don't have a navy and their airforce base is in Bilate and that's in Afariland

Try actually reading what I posted. Let me repeat for you;

The obvious low level approach to the airport in order to remain undetected as long as possible is 'from the sea' wherever the planes were based

Ethiopian pilots would also probably approach from the sea. There is no requirement that an attack run be made from the direction of a warplane's base, and usually circumstances (air defences, chance of being detected, etc) will suggest the attack be made from a totally different direction. BTW, there were no US carriers in range of Somalia at that time, so any US attack would have been from land based planes, anyway.

if the habashi's had the right planes as you claim then why didn't they carry out today's attack instead of the US?

First reason, bombing a runway is a totally different mission from attacking a specific two-man target in one building. Second, and primary, reason, American drones tracked al Qaeda operatives suspected of terrorist attacks against Americans, and they were subsequently hit by an American plane. The operation had nothing to do with Ethiopia, hence, obviously, Ethiopian planes would not be used.

[classicalislam]

Asalamu Alaikum

This has become a classical line for the US of America ”suspect al Qaeda” by saying this no one in the world raises a single eye brows thus gives the USA license to kill innocents. Incredible

“Suspect” means… think, believe, suppose, expect, imagine, guess, assume, presume, have a sneaking suspicion… so…on… and…so…on…the… list goes on.

[Trumble]

Oyeah I forgot another one. These Warlords are terrorist and by U.S support and abeting of terrorist they are deemed a legit target for war.

'Deemed' by who, exactly?

[Skillganon]

Try actually reading what I posted. Let me repeat for you;

Ethiopian pilots would also probably approach from the sea. There is no requirement that an attack run be made from the direction of a warplane's base, and usually circumstances (air defences, chance of being detected, etc) will suggest the attack be made from a totally different direction. BTW, there were no US carriers in range of Somalia at that time, so any US attack would have been from land based planes, anyway.

First reason, bombing a runway is a totally different mission from attacking a specific two-man target in one building. Second, and primary, reason, American drones tracked al Qaeda operatives suspected of terrorist attacks against Americans, and they were subsequently hit by an American plane. The operation had nothing to do with Ethiopia, hence, obviously, Ethiopian planes would not be used.

Actually ethopian invasion has everything got to do with U.S so it does not matter either way. Secondly U.S suppose intelligent is no credible reason to attack somalia or based any attack as such. Also "suspected", "if" or gut feeling does not come to play for a war or any such attack even if such absurd notion is justifiable.

Secondly this is got to do with a Islamic orientated goverment less freindly to the U.S and their interest in the middle east and africa.

Lastly a country that is in constant violation of U.N regulation, not to mention illegal war, lies e.t.c (forget their desire for downfall of Islam and the muslims) has no credibility and nothing comes from them is good.

[Keltoi]

According to a news report I just heard, one of the captured or killed was a man linked to the east Africa embassy bombings. The Somali government has reportedly confirmed many more Al-Qaeda members killed in the attack. It also stated that the U.S. is moving an aircraft carrier into the region to make sure none of the targets will escape. From the sound of things, this operation was well planned and the targets clearly identified.

[brenton]

I just heard the President of Somalia pipe in on CBC and say that the US were good to attack the "terrorists."

[Ar-RaYYan]

I just heard the President of Somalia pipe in on CBC and say that the US were good to attack the "terrorists."

Of course he would say that wouldn't he!! He thinks every somali is 'terroists' if they are against his government. What a habashi lover!!

[Ar-RaYYan]

Yawn, oink.......if you are going to complain about the many evils of the U.S., at least complain about the true ones. They are not attacking the somali people or even somalia. They are attacking terrorists.

Actually I don't calll someone 'terroists' if they are bringing peace to their country and thats is exactly what the Islamic court is doing. and we have seen the proof by looking at what they did in the last 6 months when they had the power.

[FBI]

I just heard the President of Somalia pipe in on CBC and say that the US were good to attack the "terrorists."

:sl:

Please explain how there are terrorist in somalia.

[Woodrow]

Here is a related News coming in from Kenya. I am pasting the entire story as you need to be registered on the site to read it there. However here is a link to the news site for those who wish to register.

Source: http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgindex.asp

Border may be reopened

Story by DAVID OKWEMBAH
Publication Date: 1/9/2007
Kenya will hold a meeting with the Somalia Transitional Government this week with a view to re-opening their common border.


Kenya Army personnel view the wreckage of a vehicle belonging to Somali Islamic militia, destroyed in the latest battle between the militia and Ethiopian backed government forces. Photo/ William Oeri
Special Programmes minister John Munyes said in Dadaab yesterday that the meeting will result in allowing into Kenya Somalis seeking refugee status.

The minister, who did not give the exact day of the meeting, was on a tour of refugee camps and the World Food Programme (WFP) projects in North Eastern Province.

Mr Munyes, who was in the company of the visiting WFP deputy director, Ms Sheila Sisulu, said Kenya was concerned about the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Somalia but the country’s security was paramount.

Thoroughly vetted first

He said Kenya will ensure that those allowed into the country are thoroughly vetted first.

“We hope to resolve the border crisis this week to end the human suffering,” Mr Munyes said.

The minister is the first senior government official to visit the province since the situation in Somalia deteriorated after the Ethiopian forces forced out the Islamic Courts Union (ICU) militia men.

It was followed by the forcible eviction of about 400 Somalis, who had fled to Kenya to seek refugee status.

The minister said the country was anticipating more refugees from Somalia when the border re-opens.

“We are gearing up for another influx of refugees when the border is reopened”, he added.

Mr Munyes who toured the Ifo refugee camp in Dadaab, said UNHCR and WFP had provided the necessary support to the more than 280,000 refugees from Ethiopia, Sudan and Somalia in Kenya.

The minister, however, steered clear of the raging war of words between the Government and UNHCR over the repatriation of an estimated 400 refugees from Somalia in Liboi last week.

While UNHCR and other humanitarian bodies complained about the forced repatriation of the refugees, the Government, through the minister for Foreign Affairs Raphael Tuju, held its ground saying it was concerned about the security of Kenyans.

And the UNHCR’s senior emergency and response officer, Mr Geoff Wordley, confirmed that his organisation was ready to dialogue with the Government regarding the humanitarian situation in Somalia.

He said UNHCR respected the security concerns raised by the Government.

Influx of refugees

The UNHCR is ready to dialogue with the Government to end the suffering by the Somalia people,” he added.

Mr Wordley and Ms Sisulu, said the refugees UNHCR expected an influx of refugees from Somalia once the border situation is resolved.

[Woodrow]

:sl:

Please explain how there are terrorist in somalia.

Here is a link to the story behind that: http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynati...1&newsid=89210


Here are the pertainent parts of the story:

"Many dead" after US attacks Somalia village


Publication Date: 1/9/2007
A US attack plane killed many people with barrages of gunfire in a remote Somali village occupied by Islamists thought to be hiding at least one al Qaeda suspect, a Somali government source said on Tuesday.


US intelligence believes Abu Talha al-Sudani, identified in grand jury testimony against Osama bin Laden as an explosives expert from Sudan, is the leader of east Africa's al Qaeda cell and has been in and out of Somalia for over a decade.

"The Americans are saying an al Qaeda member heading operations in east Africa is among the Islamists there," the source said. He did not know the man's name or whether he died.

US., Ethiopian and Kenyan intelligence officials say some Islamists have provided shelter to a handful of al Qaeda members, including suspects in the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania and a 2002 hotel bombing on the Kenyan coast.

Besides al-Sudani, Washington has named Comorian Fazul Abdullah Mohammed and Kenyan Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan among the al Qaeda members in Somalia.

The Washington Post, quoting unnamed military sources, said al-Sudani was one target of the raid.

Ethiopian and Somali troops have chased al-Sudani since he was leading Islamist fighters near Buur Hakaba, close to the government base Baidoa, in the early days of a war which began around Christmas, Somali government officials told Reuters.


Though many have suspected an American hand in the Somali conflict, this attack is the first solid evidence of it and is in line with previous U.S. attacks targeting al Qaeda members.

[sameer]

really just a way for the US to more involved this time with gun ships to kill of the freedom fighters.


Do they have only muslim freedom fighters or non muslims as well?

[brenton]

:sl:

Please explain how there are terrorist in somalia.

How am I supposed to explain it? The Somalian President of Somalia said it.:?

There are terrorists in Canada. Why wouldn't there be terrorists in Somalia?

But just because it is statistically probable there are terrorists in Somalia doesn't mean American planes should bomb areas, IMHO. I think the US has lost the trust of the world and shouldn't be doing these kinds of things, unless the Somolian government (not just the President) asked for the help.

[Woodrow]

Another intereting related story coming from Kenya through Eritrea:

Posted on Mon, Jan. 08, 2007email thisprint this
Interim leader rejects U.S. approach in Somalia
By Shashank Bengali
McClatchy Newspapers


NAIROBI, Kenya - In a rebuff to the United States, Somalia's interim president, Abdullahi Yusuf, on Monday rejected U.S. requests to bring moderate Islamists into his weak transitional government.


Negotiations with Islamists "will not happen," he told Al Jazeera television before flying to Mogadishu, Somalia's lawless seaside capital. "We will crack down on the terrorists in any place around the nation."

Source: http://www.dehai.org/

[FBI]

:sl:

Abdullahi Yusuf

May allah either guide this man or give him a painful downfall.

[Woodrow]

:sl:

Please explain how there are terrorist in somalia.

The leader of al-Qaida's East Africa cell is named Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, NBC’s Robert Windrem reported.


It is not known if Mohammed, 31, was the target of the attack, but he has been the most targeted al-Qaida operative in Africa for nearly a decade. He is most commonly known as Harun Fazul. He is fluent in English, French, Arabic and Swahili.



Mohammed has been indicted in the United States in connection with the Aug. 6, 1998, embassy bombings.


The United States has established a reward of $5 million for information leading to his capture.

Source: http://www.dehai.org/


I would suspect that somebody in Somalia is $5 Million richer today.

[Keltoi]

I'm sure we will have a tentative body indentification by the end of the day tomorrow, maybe even today. The last report I saw had conflicting body count numbers, one said 10 and the other said 20. Hopefully they did get the E Africa Al-Qaeda leader.

[KAding]

:sl:

Please explain how there are terrorist in somalia.

This has everything to do with the 1998 Nairobi and Dar es salaam bombings of US embassies, in which 256 people were killed and more than 4000 wounded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_U.S._embassy_bombings

Apparently, the US believes at least one of the perpetrators was in the Southern Somali village: Fazul Abdullah Mohammed

Now according to the US indictment by UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK. The indictment can be found here:
http://jya.com/usa-v-laden+5.htm

According to that document:

Beginning in or about early spring 1993, al-Qaeda members, including the defendants MUHAMMED ATEF, a/k/a "Abu Hafs el Masry," FAZUL ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, a/k/a "Harun Fazhl," a/k/a "Fazhl Abdullah," a/k/a "Fazhl Khan," and MOHAMED SADEEK ODEH, a/k/a "Abu Moath," a/k/a "Noureldine," a/k/a "Marwan," a/k/a "Hydar," along with "Abu Ubaidah al Banshiri," a co-conspirator not named herein as a defendant, provided military training and assistance to Somali tribes opposed to the United Nations' intervention in Somalia;

In or about the spring of 1996, the defendants WADIH EL HAGE, a/k/a "Abdus Sabbur," a/k/a "Abd al Sabbur," "Norman," a/k/a "Wa'da Norman," and FAZUL ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, a/k/a "Harun Fazhl," a/k/a "Fazhl Abdullah," a/k/a "Fazhl Khan," went to Lake Victoria to investigate the circumstances of the drowning of "Abu Ubaidah al Banshiri" and to report back to defendant USAMA BIN LADEN;

Preparation for the Bombings of United States Embassies

ad. In or about May 1998, the defendant FAZUL ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, a/k/a "Harun Fazhl," a/k/a "Fazhl Abdullah," a/k/a "Fazhl Khan," rented a villa located at 43 Rundu Estates in Nairobi, Kenya;

...

During the first week of August 1998, the FAZUL ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, a/k/a "Harun Fazhl," a/k/a Abdullah," a/k/a "Fazhl Khan," and MOHAMED RASHED DAOUD a/k/a "Khalid Salim Saleh Bin Rashed," a/k/a "Moath," "Abdul Jabbar Ali Abdel-Latif," together with "Azzam" and members of al Qaeda, met at a villa located at number 43 Estates in Nairobi, Kenya, to make final preparations for bombing of the United States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya;

...

On August 7, 1998, beginning at approximately 9:30 a.m., the defendant FAZUL ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, a/k/a "Harun Fazhl," a/k/a "Fazhl Abdullah," a/k/a "Fazhl Khan," drove a pick-up truck from the villa located at 43 Rundu Estates to the vicinity of the United States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, while the defendant MOHAMED RASHED DAOUD AL-'OWHALI, a/k/a "Khalid Salim Saleh Bin Rashed," a/k/a "Moath," a/k/a "Abdul Jabbar Ali Abdel-Latif," rode in another vehicle containing a large bomb driven by "Azzam" (the "Nairobi Bomb Truck") to the United States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya. The defendant MOHAMED RASHED DAOUD AL-'OWHALI, a/k/a "Khalid Salim Saleh Bin Rashed," a/k/a "Moath," a/k/a "Abdul Jabbar Ali Abdel-Latif," possessed four stun-grenade type devices, a handgun and keys to the padlocks on the Nairobi Bomb Truck;

...

On August 7, 1998, at approximately 10:30 a.m., "Azzam" detonated the explosive device contained in the Nairobi Bomb Truck at a location near the rear of the Embassy building, demolishing a multi-story secretarial college and severely damaging the United States Embassy building and the Cooperative Bank Building, causing a total of more than 213 deaths, as well as injuries to more than 4,500 people, including citizens of Kenya and the United States;

Now apparently, the US has reason to believe these terrorists have been active in Somalia, where they already fought in the early 1990's. Apparently, the US saw a chance to take them out. Lets see if his body is found and identified.

[brenton]

:sl:

Please explain how there are terrorist in somalia.

Another intereting related story coming from Kenya through Eritrea:




Source: http://www.dehai.org/

Why does Islamist=Terrorist for the Somalian President? Some Islamist (not Islamic) policies are normal competing ideologies with no more than the normal amount of violence.

[FBI]

:sl:

Shoot first ask questions later, who's the terrorist now?

[KAding]

:sl:

Shoot first ask questions later, who's the terrorist now?

How so? They claim to have been tracking the alleged perpetrators for years now. How is that 'shoot first, ask questions later'?

[Islamicboy]

If people are going to justify Somalian attacks by america then 911 can be justified. This is probably why most of the world hates america.

[KAding]

[QUOTE=Islamicboy;621168]If people are going to justify Somalian attacks by america then 911 can be justified.[/quuote]

I disagree. The target of 911 was civilians, the target for this attack was combatants. Comparing it to, say, the attack on the USS Cole makes more sense. Except of course that the US is an international recognized country, while those who attacked the USS Cole were private individuals. And of course, the internationally recognized Somali government approved the attack.

This is probably why most of the world hates america.

Thats probably true. But keep in mind, there is probably only one group that is hated more. Muslims. They are not very popular either anywhere. You share that with the US, maybe the US and Muslims you should start a support group/conference or something. "Why are we hated and what to do about it" :D.

[MTAFFI]

Thats probably true. But keep in mind, there is probably only one group that is hated more. Muslims. They are not very popular either anywhere. You share that with the US, maybe the US and Muslims you should start a support group/conference or something. "Why are we hated and what to do about it" :D.

:giggling: :haha: :lol: :clever: :sunny:

That is hilarious but so incredibly true, i cant believe i didnt think of it before.

[Sami Zaatari]

its not that bad, its good, usa will now lose in afghan, iraq, and somalia, a trinity of losses for them. their already losing in afghanistan, losing badly in iraq, and they will also lose in somalia as they did in the 90's somalia may be poor, but they arent weak and know how to fight against those yankee cowboys. i dont see it as a negative thing if usa attacks us, because i see change, i see muslims rising up and fighting usa and eventually setting up an islamic state like their doing in iraq, and will do in afghan, and will do again in somalia, and that just makes a united islamic front :)

[Islamicboy]

its not that bad, its good, usa will now lose in afghan, iraq, and somalia, a trinity of losses for them. their already losing in afghanistan, losing badly in iraq, and they will also lose in somalia as they did in the 90's somalia may be poor, but they arent weak and know how to fight against those yankee cowboys. i dont see it as a negative thing if usa attacks us, because i see change, i see muslims rising up and fighting usa and eventually setting up an islamic state like their doing in iraq, and will do in afghan, and will do again in somalia, and that just makes a united islamic front :)

I agree with that Iraq was a very secular nation until america attacked it now they are fighting for shariah.

[Trumble]

I agree with that Iraq was a very secular nation until america attacked it now they are fighting for shariah.

A couple of questions for both you and Sami Zaatari;

Who do you believe is "fighting for Sharia" in Iraq, as opposed to fighting for any other reason, and;

Who do you believe the US will "lose in Iraq" to ?

[Woodrow]

A couple of questions for both you and Sami Zaatari;

Who do you believe is "fighting for Sharia" in Iraq, as opposed to fighting for any other reason, and;

Who do you believe the US will "lose in Iraq" to ?

We will eventualy loose Iraq to Iran. After many years of helping Iraq defend itself against Iran we are in essence, handing Iraq to Iran.

Facts and truth, Iraq and Iran - One outcome of the American invasion is that it has generated a much more uncompromising "fundamentalist" politico-ideological constellation in Iraq. This has led to a predominance of the pro-Iranian political forces there — the intervention basically delivered Iraq to Iranian influence. One can imagine how, if President George W. Bush were to be court-martialed by a Stalinist judge, he would be instantly condemned as an "Iranian agent." -IHT 1/6/07

Source: http://www.netnative.com/news/

[AvarAllahNoor]

HAHA Keitol, what did i say to you in the other thread??

U.S ARE INVOLVED ALL THE WAY. You said 'No it's all Ethiopia' lol.

May God grant victory to the mujahdeen if they are righteous.

[Keltoi]

HAHA Keitol, what did i say to you in the other thread??

U.S ARE INVOLVED ALL THE WAY. You said 'No it's all Ethiopia' lol.

May God grant victory to the mujahdeen if they are righteous.

This is really two different things. The U.S. has been hunting for these Al-Qaeda members for a long time, since the embassy bombings. This is hardly a sign that the U.S. is behind the actions of Ethiopia. May God grant victory to the righteous indeed...on that we agree.

[sudais1]

na'ala american kan, wadnka ka baha

curse, Ethiopia, America, get out of Somalia, there was more peace with the Islamic Court

allahuma iqwannal Mujahideen fe Somal :amin:

[Islamicboy]

A couple of questions for both you and Sami Zaatari;

Who do you believe is "fighting for Sharia" in Iraq, as opposed to fighting for any other reason, and;

Who do you believe the US will "lose in Iraq" to ?

Mujahideen are fighting for Shariah. America will lose Iraq to the mujahideen inshallah who follow Quran and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammed S.A.W

[Chuck]

Who do you believe the US will "lose in Iraq" to ?

More or less, Iran is running the show in Iraq.

[Woodrow]

It is difficult for us here far away from Somalia to say what is best. The news stories of course will be biased. But here are a few stories from around the world. Perhaps the truth is in them some place.

From Somalia's neighbor Kenya:

Our policy on Somalia left a lot to be desired

Story by MACHARIA GAITHO
Publication Date: 1/9/2007
The jury is still out on what will unfold in Somalia following capture of Mogadishu by the Ethiopian-backed transitional government. Maybe the once-hapless administration will gradually impose its rule on the capital and the rest of the country.

Or maybe the Islamic Courts Union forces that melted away with the advance of the Ethiopian troops will regroup and launch an insurgency that will remind the Ethiopians of that painful lesson yet to be digested by the American occupiers in Iraq.

But one thing that nobody can doubt is that while Kenya dithered and hee-hawed, Ethiopia moved bravely and decisively once it determined that the spectre of a Somali Taliban on its front door posed grave threats to its security and strategic interests.

The installation of an administration in Somalia that consorted with international terrorists posed even more of a danger to Kenya.

Our democratic and liberal traditions also make Kenya much less security conscious than Ethiopia, which still retains elements of its rigid totalitarian-military-communist past. We have twice been hit by bombers with a Somali connection that can find a rich array of targets in Kenya.

The Islamists extended their tentacles in Somalia issuing blood-curdling threats of Jihad and reducing to impotence the transitional government we helped install.

An ill-fated American intervention – funding the warlords responsible for Somalia’s mess in the first place – was a downright embarrassment.

While the Ethiopians moved in to back the transitional government, Kenya sat with its arms folded, feigning neutrality, while secretly welcoming the intervention. It was the well-established Kenyan foreign policy: Wait and see.

We waited and saw, and only after the Ethiopians had done the dirty work do we now hear tough talk from our Foreign minister Raphael Tuju in support of the Somali transitional government.

Kenya is now signalling that it is taking action against Islamist supporters who might be wanting to use Kenya as a base while they plot their counter-attacks.

One must wonder, however, why that clear resolve was missing all along until after the Islamists had fled Mogadishu.

Source: http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynati...5&newsid=89180


From Eritrea:

Egypt's Mubarak, Eritrea's Afwerki discuss stabilizing Somalia


The Associated PressPublished: January 9, 2007






SHARM EL-SHEIK, Egypt: The Egyptian and Eritrean presidents emphasized Tuesday the need to stabilize war-torn Somalia and the entire Horn of Africa region.


Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's spokesman told journalists following the talks with Eritrean President Isaias Afwerki, "We are working toward achieving calm in order to avert further deterioration in Somalia."


"This should prevent the war lords from returning and clear the way for African Union peace keeping forces be sent (to Somalia)," said Suleiman Awad, the Egyptian spokesman after the leaders met in the Egyptian Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheik.


Awad said Egypt is also in contacts with other parties to try to resolve the conflict in Somalia.


"This will provide the chance and create the climate for the Ethiopian troops to withdraw," he said.


Somalia has not had an effective government since warlords overthrew longtime dictator Mohammed Siad Barre in 1991, plunging the country into years of anarchy and civil war.


Ethiopian forces invaded Somalia last month to counter an Islamic movement that had challenged the weak, but internationally recognized government in Mogadishu.


The government was formed with the help of the U.N. in 2004 to serve as a transitional body to help the country emerge from war, but it has struggled to assert its authority.


Somalia accuses Eritrea of meddling in its affairs by supporting the Islamic group because of Eritrea's hostility toward Ethiopia, which supports the struggling Somalian government.

Source: http://www.dehai.org/


From Djibouti:

Somalia: Djibouti Urges Ethiopia to Pull Its Troops Out


Shabelle Media Network (Mogadishu)

January 8, 2007
Posted to the web January 8, 2007

Aweys Osman Yusuf
Mogadishu

Djibouti, a country in the Horn of Africa and a base for US task force, has revealed on Monday that it would never allow a long period presence of Ethiopian troops in its neighboring Somalia.

Mohamood Ali Yusuf, Djibouti's foreign minister, has told Asharqalawsat, an Arabic newspaper based in Britain, that the dire situation and the Ethiopian military presence in Somalia could escalate the tense state in the strife-torn country.


He said his government was concerned that the insecurity and instability in Somalia could spread into the entire Horn of Africa.

He denied that the American Task Force based in his country of Djibouti were involved in the Ethiopian military operations in Somalia.

Asked if any of the Islamist leaders sought a refuge in his country, the minister said, "We gave no asylum to any Islamist and there was no one who asked my government any political asylum".

Source: http://allafrica.com/stories/200701080493.html

[amirah_87]

As Salaamu ALaykum,

SubhanAllah!! :heated:

This Angers me soo much!! :grumbling

[Trumble]

Mujahideen are fighting for Shariah. America will lose Iraq to the mujahideen inshallah who follow Quran and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammed S.A.W

Sorry, which side are these 'mujahideen' supposed to be on? Are they the Shi'a killing the Sunnis or the Sunnis killing the Shi'a? Are they those Iraqis who supported Saddam or those that cheered his death? Or are they anybody who might kill Americans regardless of who else they might kill if they get the chance?

[Sunflower]

Sorry, which side are these 'mujahideen' supposed to be on? Are they the Shi'a killing the Sunnis or the Sunnis killing the Shi'a? Are they those Iraqis who supported Saddam or those that cheered his death? Or are they anybody who might kill Americans regardless of who else they might kill if they get the chance?

I thought this threat was about somalia. Theres no sectarian issues between happening from there. The situation is completely different so lets try to keep Saddam, Iraq and other off topic things out of it.

[Sami Zaatari]

well i always knew somalia would be next on the list for US, and its happening in the exact way i knew it would, there would be a civil fight between somali puppet goverment against the Islamic forces, and eventually USA would step in to help out, but see at the same time my prediction for all of this is that when the US eventually sends troops in this will make another black hawk down episode for america in somalia, not only that i believe many foreign fighters will also flock to somalia as soon as they hear that usa enters somalia, and this will eventually lead to a loss for USA and the puppet somali goverment and an establishment of an Islamic state and a new base for the Islamic forces in the future. history just repeats itself.

[Sami Zaatari]

in 10-15 more years all u see happening now will happen again, USA will be attacked again, yet this time the base were Islamic fighters will be at will not be afghanistan but somalia, and usa will make 'war on terror' like they are doing now only now the scene will be somalia and sudan etc, this is prob gonna happen in the next decade, its all a script, a show, all set up i mean the fact you can predict all this stuff so easily and it comes to pass proves it, this is all a show being made by some top ppl who want control and power, war=money, money=power, power= domination, and these ppl want all that. the 'real war' hasnt begun yet folks, what u see is a scripted war, the real war will begin when we all realize that all we see is a show and events that are being set up, and when we realize that thats when the real war will begin.

[Woodrow]

A little more news about Somalia.

Yemen and U.S. support Somalia's stability
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yemen Times Staff




ADEN, Jan. 7 — Jendayi Frazer, Assistant US Secretary of State for African Affairs, urged Yemeni authorities on Saturday to support the Somali people and utilize the best means for achieving that end.

President Saleh in his meeting with Frazer discussed the situation in Somalia and stressed the importance of helping Somali people.

Before her departure and in a press conference held by Foreign Minister Abu Baker Al-Qirbi, Frazer declared she discussed with the Yemeni side how to help Somali people and provide solutions to ensure Somalia's stability via peaceful dialogue between all Somali parties.

She further noted she is for holding talks with Islamic Courts and other parties to make use of their expertise and announced her government decided to grant funding for the Somali government to support peace and stability in Somalia.

Source:http://yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=1014&p=local&a=2

Ethiopians are our natural neighbour but not our natural enemy.

By Ali Osman Samatar




Soon after the collapse of the Dictatorial Military regime in Somalia, Somali people went through a historical anarchic and painful agony which was lead by clan based warlords mainly in the south of Somalia. That period was terminated by so-called Islamic courts that managed a miracle and brought back a remarkable peaceful environment for the people in the major Somali terrible city Mogadishu. However, weeks after the Warlords were expelled from the ex-Somali capital, the Islamists started a holly war against peaceful towns and villages in the South and that reminded me General Adiided’s disastrous crusade operations in many towns in South Somalia like Baidao the city of death. Apart from defeating the warlords in Mogadishu, it is all know to us that the Islmaists couldn’t even manage to establish at least a functioning administration in Mogadishu. They only opened the Airport and the Seaport of Mogadishu in order to cover their financial needs for a holly war from Somalia.

Source: http://www.hiiraan.com/op2/2007/jan/...al_enemy_.aspx

[Sami Zaatari]

as you can see also they are now wanting to bring UN into sudan etc etc, its all a script for the next 'war on terror' which they will do on somalia and sudan as they do now on iraq and afghanistan, probaly in 10 years you could say who knows, but it will most likely happen.

[AHMED_GUREY]

Try actually reading what I posted. Let me repeat for you;



Ethiopian pilots would also probably approach from the sea. There is no requirement that an attack run be made from the direction of a warplane's base, and usually circumstances (air defences, chance of being detected, etc) will suggest the attack be made from a totally different direction. BTW, there were no US carriers in range of Somalia at that time, so any US attack would have been from land based planes, anyway.

Point taken!

First reason, bombing a runway is a totally different mission from attacking a specific two-man target in one building. Second, and primary, reason, American drones tracked al Qaeda operatives suspected of terrorist attacks against Americans, and they were subsequently hit by an American plane. The operation had nothing to do with Ethiopia, hence, obviously, Ethiopian planes would not be used.

who was the fool that programmed them disgusting things that stalked innocent mothers and farmers and eventually got them killed?

Al jazeera reporters claimed 70 civilians died in those cowardly air-attacks by these terrorists

that's more deaths than 7/7

United States of Terrorists keep pushing my people in the Islamist direction and the ICU will return more powerfull than ever and with concrete support from across the Somali lands in all corners of East Africa

[AHMED_GUREY]

It is difficult for us here far away from Somalia to say what is best. The news stories of course will be biased. But here are a few stories from around the world. Perhaps the truth is in them some place.

From Somalia's neighbor Kenya:



Source: http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynati...5&newsid=89180

Lol half of Kenya is Somali land wich the british illegally handed to the Kenyans half a century ago and wich was under Ajuuraan rule for centuries how dare they claim they have the right to send refugees running away from munafiiqs and Kafiir bombings

look at everybody kicking us when were down, this is a good lesson for all Somali people that none of these neighbours are our friends but only puppets on the paycheck of Uncle Sam and need to be destroyed as soon as we get on our feets and since there is no Soviet Empire to save them we will those son of a {..bleep..}

Somali refugees are the best thing that happend to Kenya's corrupt invested Economy

Eastleigh businesses have also brought tremendous competition to the market place,which has had a negative effect on many of the Asian businesses in particular. The Asian community has hitherto controlled most of the retail business in Kenya, yet the owners of these businesses can now be seen purchasing their wholesale merchandise from Somalis.According to Narayan Mehta, owner of a city centre hardware store,

Most Asians don’t like to admit it, but the Somalis are really cutting into our businesses. They are willing to live and work in Eastlands areas where most Asians won’t even visit -Narayan Mehta

The cornerstone of this development, the famous ‘Garissa Lodge,’ serves today as asymbol of refugee businesses in Eastleigh. Many Somalis resided in this former guesthouse before its transformation into a modern retail shopping mall, officially renamed Little Dubai but popularly referred to as ‘Garissa.’ From small scale ‘black market’trading in hotel rooms, today Garissa houses 58 stalls in which everything from designer clothing to electronics is sold at incredibly cheap prices. Compare the price of, for instance, a ‘real’ Sony radio (be sure, there are many fakes). At Garissa Lodge the goingrate is 350 Ksh. An identical radio sold in the city centre goes for 500 Ksh. In the commercial centre of Westlands, a wealthy suburb, the same radio is sold for 600 Ksh.While this is only one example, the table below shows the price differential of many staple goods and services consumed by the majority of people

Throughout the 1990s Eastleigh was transformed, largely by Somali businessmen,from a residential community to the commercial centre of Eastlands, and increasingly much of Nairobi.

the Somalis have also created work for local Kenyans, many of whom are hired as low-wage, unskilled labourers. More lucrative jobs include working on Somali-owned matatus and as mechanics. With the general infusion of capital in the area, Kenyan residents of the larger Eastlands area, of which Eastleigh is the commercial centre,increasingly turn toward this refugee-dominated section of the city to seek out a meager living. For many, chances to earn a day’s wage are higher in Eastleigh—the informal economy—than the city centre. In fact, most of the large-scale commercial businesses in Eastleigh are now part and parcel of Nairobi’s formal economy, where greater numbers of the city’s residents are increasingly turning for access to cheap goods and livelihood opportunities


Source

today i couldn't even think straight in class the frustration and anger is getting to me i think it's better i take a step back before i say something i will regret

[SATalha]

well i always knew somalia would be next on the list for US, and its happening in the exact way i knew it would, there would be a civil fight between somali puppet goverment against the Islamic forces, and eventually USA would step in to help out, but see at the same time my prediction for all of this is that when the US eventually sends troops in this will make another black hawk down episode for america in somalia, not only that i believe many foreign fighters will also flock to somalia as soon as they hear that usa enters somalia, and this will eventually lead to a loss for USA and the puppet somali goverment and an establishment of an Islamic state and a new base for the Islamic forces in the future. history just repeats itself.

Inshallah bro,

[Jayda]

hola,

i do not like to talk about politics... but i do think maybe i should say this much... i think bombing people in somolia or afghanistan because of terrorism is wrong and maybe arrogant is not the right word but something like arrogance done in ignorance...

what i mean is that i think if we really think about why the terrorists hate us enough to do 911 maybe there is another answer and we could rethink the things we do in the world that make people feel like this... we intervene with our military in their lives very often and sometimes for ignoble and selfish reasons... and i think that this kind of thing is something america could stop doing and would be much better than bombing them wherever we find them...

i think we should think more about how we can be kinder in the world instead of how we can have revenge... and i think maybe revenge is an illusion always but especially with 911... the people responsible killed themselves... except bin laden who hides behind innocent people as human shields... i think maybe we should think about whether bombing innocent people and taking that bait so that we can have revenge is truly better than accepting we will never have our pound of flesh and should do the right thing and promote peace instead of war...

gracias, Dios te bendiga

[_Mujahida]

Yawn, oink.......if you are going to complain about the many evils of the U.S., at least complain about the true ones. They are not attacking the somali people or even somalia. They are attacking terrorists.

what terrorists? we muslim are all terroris

[KAding]

what terrorists? we muslim are all terroris

Don't be silly.

People who blow up civilian targets are terrorists, those who do not are not.

[_Mujahida]

So u think that the family that the US blow up in somaila are terrorists

[MTAFFI]

So u think that the family that the US blow up in somaila are terrorists

perhaps, definitely some of the people around them were and you know what they say

"You are who you associate with"

[MTAFFI]

na'ala american kan, wadnka ka baha

curse, Ethiopia, America, get out of Somalia, there was more peace with the Islamic Court

allahuma iqwannal Mujahideen fe Somal :amin:

yeah once they killed everyone opposed to it

[KAding]

So u think that the family that the US blow up in somaila are terrorists

I don't know yet.

[FBI]

I don't know yet.

Wow Just great I'm sure the US also probably don't know yet, And they have the nerve to call people terrorist when they kill innocents aswell.

[_Mujahida]

but u kw all about the so call terrorists that they killing

[MTAFFI]

in 10-15 more years all u see happening now will happen again, USA will be attacked again, yet this time the base were Islamic fighters will be at will not be afghanistan but somalia, and usa will make 'war on terror' like they are doing now only now the scene will be somalia and sudan etc, this is prob gonna happen in the next decade, its all a script, a show,

Are you crazy? Who is the show being run by, the extremist? What do you expect to happen when someone attacks another country and says "We are waging a Holy war against you"

all set up i mean the fact you can predict all this stuff so easily and it comes to pass proves it, this is all a show being made by some top ppl who want control and power, war=money, money=power, power= domination,

War=less money less money= less power less power= less domination
You logic is flawed

the 'real war' hasnt begun yet folks, what u see is a scripted war, the real war will begin when we all realize that all we see is a show and events that are being set up, and when we realize that thats when the real war will begin.

What would a real war be to you exactly, my friend? Do you think any of these countries would defeat the US in a "real" war? How about NO, it would take a matter of days to make those countries no more than holes in the ground, for lack of a better analogy it would be a mouse fighting a bull. The US doesnt do this because there are some good people there that want nothing more than peace. That is what makes this "War on Terror" such a pain, because the people that we fight against are cowards who hide in civilian clothes. Do you think that these countries are going to stand up and say "Lets fight the US because some idiots live in our country who want everyone to comform to their beliefs", no it is a blessing that the US helps these people. These islamic radicals want a government their way or no way and that isnt an Islamic State it is a dictatorship. I hope these countries do come together and say "Lets be an Islamic state" as long as it is the will of ALL the people and not just a few.

All that said, the area that was the target was believe to be, after extensive research and intelligence gathering, a hideout for someone who bombed the US embassies. I pray that the main target was hit in this operation. Isnt it funny, I bet the guy thought he was safe just like bin Laden probably will 10 years from now.

[starfortress]

:sl:

Lawmaker Abdirashid Mohamed Hidig said after touring the region in an Ethiopian helicopter that at least 50 people were killed by U.S. and Ethiopian air strikes.

The government source said four new U.S. strikes hit areas near Ras Kamboni, a coastal village close to the Kenyan border long thought by Western and east African intelligence agencies to be a hideout and training camp for Islamic militants.

"As we speak now, the area is being bombarded by the American air force," said the source, talking to Reuters on condition of anonymity.

Continued...

:sl:

Bush didn't bring those responsible to justice. He simply led The U.S on a war that had nothing to do with justice. And as we find out day by day, it had far more to do with injustice than justice,like a villages were struck only because they believe where the suspects were thought to be hiding.

Those action were criticized by new U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon, France, the European Union, former colonial power Italy, Egypt and the Arab League,but got supported from Blair and Somali President:exhausted .I wonder if Palau,Iceland etc would be on the list.:-[

If im asked the rational behind these actions,i'll says The U.S had lost their credibility in the eyes of world(Muslim ) since the first day they have launched a war against Iraq(2003 invasion of Iraq) surprisingly they can lies on that,why not on these.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

[Woodrow]

Oyeah I forgot another one. These Warlords are terrorist and by U.S support and abeting of terrorist they are deemed a legit target for war.

Have to agree with you there.


The question I have is who does the majority of the Somolians support. It is not a question of are the majority right or wrong it is a question of what does Somalia want.

For myself I am finding conflicting stories as to who is who. The only thing anybody can agree on is the warlords were/are terrorists at least to the Somalians. I can not find any unified agreement about the IC.

I do know that for a long time many people in Somalia were very much in favor of things like drugs, alcohol and Pornography and the IC did stop that. The problem is did they stop it by force or through support of the people?

Do we have a right to force people to accept the laws of Islam if they do not want to fully follow Islam?

[Islamicboy]

Do we have a right to force people to accept the laws of Islam if they do not want to fully follow Islam?

Every country has laws that people dont want to follow. For example majority of the people disagree with the drinking age in Canada. Yet the age is still the same and the laws still apply. Is this not force that a 16 year old cannot walk into a bar and get a drink? For some reason whenever its islamic law people start to wonder if the residents who probably make minority of the population do not want the laws. If the people don't like the islamic laws and prefer to be slaves of their desires (i.e. Americans) then they could always move.

[Woodrow]

Every country has laws that people dont want to follow. For example majority of the people disagree with the drinking age in Canada. Yet the age is still the same and the laws still apply. Is this not force that a 16 year old cannot walk into a bar and get a drink? For some reason whenever its islamic law people start to wonder if the residents who probably make minority of the population do not want the laws. If the people don't like the islamic laws and prefer to be slaves of their desires (i.e. Americans) then they could always move.

I can understand where you are coming from. In fact to a very large degree I agree with you.

So in essence what you are saying if the Islamic Court does come back and is successful in gaining control of the Government. Those that do not like it can either leave or live with the laws. Even if they are the majority of the population and those in agreement with the laws are a small minority.

[MTAFFI]

Every country has laws that people dont want to follow. For example majority of the people disagree with the drinking age in Canada. Yet the age is still the same and the laws still apply. Is this not force that a 16 year old cannot walk into a bar and get a drink? For some reason whenever its islamic law people start to wonder if the residents who probably make minority of the population do not want the laws. If the people don't like the islamic laws and prefer to be slaves of their desires (i.e. Americans) then they could always move.

The difference is you are forcing the law of a religion on people. Many of which do not share the same religion. In Canada no one is forcing the laws of a religion they enforce laws that cater to everyone, regardless of religion, race, etc. Why should anyone have to live under the laws of someone elses religion? If you dont believe in it, then why should you have to follow it. Tell me on law that Canada has that a follower of Islam would want to break, or that a Muslim feels is unjust. Also basic freedom under this law are at times taken away, take Irans journalists for example, if they report negatively on their government they get shut down, is that fair?

With that said, Somalia is a country whose main religion is Sunni Muslim, and if these people want an Islamic State then why do they just not vote for someone to take control of the government that could get this accomplished. They give themselves and Islam a bad name with their lack of respect for life. Many of the people these people kill are guilty of nothing, they are just bystanders. It seems Islam is making itself known throughout the world for taking countries by force, which prompts civil war, which prompts other countries to intervene.

[MTAFFI]

It looks like the main targets were not hit, special ops and other forces are after them though it looks like, I pray these pieces of terrorist garbage are taken out quickly.
:raging:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070111/ap_on_re_af/somalia

[Islamicboy]

I pray these pieces of terrorist garbage are taken out quickly.

Yes, I too hope the islamic courts takes out these invading terrorist out of their country fast.

[Islamicboy]

I can understand where you are coming from. In fact to a very large degree I agree with you.

So in essence what you are saying if the Islamic Court does come back and is successful in gaining control of the Government. Those that do not like it can either leave or live with the laws. Even if they are the majority of the population and those in agreement with the laws are a small minority.

I dont think majority of the muslims would disagree with shariah laws. I mean my family lived under shariah law in saudi arabia they never had any complains. Its the western media thats make islamic law look difficult to follow or just too much. Also as far as I know democracy and islamic system are two different systems. In democracy its by the people for the people where a president is picked by the majority of the voters. But in islam a khilafah is not picked by majority of the population living in a country the khilafah is apointed by a group of scholars who judge him on whether he is moral, religious etc.. I have to see a country which ruled by shariah and majority of the people did not like it. The only reason many muslims can stand saudi arabia some bad laws because they still have shariah in their court system.

[Islamicboy]

The difference is you are forcing the law of a religion on people. Many of which do not share the same religion. In Canada no one is forcing the laws of a religion they enforce laws that cater to everyone, regardless of religion, race, etc. Why should anyone have to live under the laws of someone elses religion? If you dont believe in it, then why should you have to follow it. Tell me on law that Canada has that a follower of Islam would want to break, or that a Muslim feels is unjust. Also basic freedom under this law are at times taken away, take Irans journalists for example, if they report negatively on their government they get shut down, is that fair?

With that said, Somalia is a country whose main religion is Sunni Muslim, and if these people want an Islamic State then why do they just not vote for someone to take control of the government that could get this accomplished. They give themselves and Islam a bad name with their lack of respect for life. Many of the people these people kill are guilty of nothing, they are just bystanders. It seems Islam is making itself known throughout the world for taking countries by force, which prompts civil war, which prompts other countries to intervene.

Under the shariah law non muslims are not forced to pray (salat)... So don't worry no one is going to force there religion on you. Iran has nothing to do with Shariah..

Islamic courts were killing people??? The reason people could not come out and vote because of the warlords in Somalia who are probably backed by USA. Also why should they have to come and vote Islamic courts were doing good everyone could see it was very plain and clear. America cannot stand stabilized muslim nations therefore they attacked Somalia.

Civil War
There are always rebels in each country even in america there are people who would start a war. But no one gives them weapons to go around killing people for there demands. Where Iran and the western countries backed Northern alliance in afganistan thus they were as powerful as the government. Iraq Sunnis are getting money and weapons from other sunni countries and shias are getting them from america and iran. There are many groups in america that would do exactly the same if they were given weapons and equipment to fight american government ofcourse they too could do that.

[MTAFFI]

Under the shariah law non muslims are not forced to pray (salat)... So don't worry no one is going to force there religion on you.

I didnt mean forced to pray but some of the laws are based on Islamic beliefs. This is what I believe causes the civil wars.

Iran has nothing to do with Shariah..

I did not know that, I know they are an Islamic State so what laws do they go by, if you dont know that is fine I will just research it.

Islamic courts were killing people???

They were actually a militia loyal to the ICU, and yes they were killing innocents who didnt agree with their cause, these werent necessarily people that sided with the warlords either.

The reason people could not come out and vote because of the warlords in Somalia who are probably backed by USA.

This is just a theory, however it is probable. On the other hand this government didnt even hold office long enough to hold formal elections.

Also why should they have to come and vote Islamic courts were doing good everyone could see it was very plain and clear. America cannot stand stabilized muslim nations therefore they attacked Somalia.

The ICU was doing no better than any other form of government, in fact they may have been worse. They say they are for the people but they wish to impose strict moral laws which many of the people disagree with (such as forbidding watching soccer in public) Somaliland and Puntland to the north are governed (not under islamic law) and are a fairly peaceful part of the country. Maybe this should be done to all of Somalia, just split it up and let each part govern itself.

Civil War
There are always rebels in each country even in america there are people who would start a war. But no one gives them weapons to go around killing people for there demands. Where Iran and the western countries backed Northern alliance in afganistan thus they were as powerful as the government. Iraq Sunnis are getting money and weapons from other sunni countries and shias are getting them from america and iran. There are many groups in america that would do exactly the same if they were given weapons and equipment to fight american government ofcourse they too could do that.

Acutually this is kind of untrue, in America no one "gives" us weapons, however you have the constitutional right to bear arms. For instance, I own a wide array of different weapons, not really so much to use (hopefully) but more because they are just like a hobby. These are not just pistols either, and not only that but anyone without a criminal record can obtain these weapons by simply filling out a permit and in some cases taking a class. The problem is (in this part you are right) these people are being supplied with weapons and have known nothing but war their whole lives, which will obviously only fuel the fire. I do not think though that this sort of thing would break out in America, most of Europe or more developed countries like these, it is just not civil. The kind of thinking these people have is very primitive in nature. God help them all, and I pray the Lord brings peace to everyone in these devastated regions.

here is a source for my facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

[Woodrow]

There are many groups in america that would do exactly the same if they were given weapons and equipment to fight american government ofcourse they too could do that.

We do have a number of militant groups that do just that. Buying many types of weapons is legal here as long as the buyer is a US citizen and has never been convicted of a feloney or any crime of violence and has not advocated the violent over throw of the government.

[Islamicboy]

I didnt mean forced to pray but some of the laws are based on Islamic beliefs. This is what I believe causes the civil wars.

I did not know that, I know they are an Islamic State so what laws do they go by, if you dont know that is fine I will just research it.

They were actually a militia loyal to the ICU, and yes they were killing innocents who didnt agree with their cause, these werent necessarily people that sided with the warlords either.

This is just a theory, however it is probable. On the other hand this government didnt even hold office long enough to hold formal elections.

The ICU was doing no better than any other form of government, in fact they may have been worse. They say they are for the people but they wish to impose strict moral laws which many of the people disagree with (such as forbidding watching soccer in public) Somaliland and Puntland to the north are governed (not under islamic law) and are a fairly peaceful part of the country. Maybe this should be done to all of Somalia, just split it up and let each part govern itself.

Acutually this is kind of untrue, in America no one "gives" us weapons, however you have the constitutional right to bear arms. For instance, I own a wide array of different weapons, not really so much to use (hopefully) but more because they are just like a hobby. These are not just pistols either, and not only that but anyone without a criminal record can obtain these weapons by simply filling out a permit and in some cases taking a class. The problem is (in this part you are right) these people are being supplied with weapons and have known nothing but war their whole lives, which will obviously only fuel the fire. I do not think though that this sort of thing would break out in America, most of Europe or more developed countries like these, it is just not civil. The kind of thinking these people have is very primitive in nature. God help them all, and I pray the Lord brings peace to everyone in these devastated regions.

here is a source for my facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

But there was never a non muslim who rose up agiasnt the islamic shariah before. In afganistan the people who fought agiasnt Taliban were muslims because they were fooled with lies and propoganda. In Somalia the people who started to fight agiasnt the islamist were the christian ethopia which should not even get involved into this in the first place. If you saying the civil wars are caused by shariah because others dont accept it. But thats not true if you go to afganistan today and ask northern alliance if they agree with shariah they will tell you yes. Majority of these civil wars happen becuase other nations get involved.

Iran claims it follows shariah just like pakistan and saudi arabia. So if you do research you will end up getting confused thinking they really do follow shariah.

As far as what you say about the islamist being this criminal. Thats untrue! Everyone knows that islamist brought peace to Somalia I even seen interviews conducted by BBC where the Somalia people themselves said they like what the islamist have done so far.

They banned television so what? America banned Child porn is that too extreme for you too??? Television leds to evils such as pornography and everyone knows this no need for a debate on this matter.

[Skillganon]

They were actually a militia loyal to the ICU, and yes they were killing innocents who didnt agree with their cause, these werent necessarily people that sided with the warlords either.

What millitia that was loyal to the ICU and killing innocent people?

This is just a theory, however it is probable. On the other hand this government didnt even hold office long enough to hold formal elections.

Muslims cannot ellect wheter they wan't to have Islamic Law upon them or not. Aslong as they are following the Quran and the sunnah, despite the upheaval any many challenge they face from their enemy and hyprocrite.

The ICU was doing no better than any other form of government, in fact they may have been worse. They say they are for the people but they wish to impose strict moral laws which many of the people disagree with (such as forbidding watching soccer in public) Somaliland and Puntland to the north are governed (not under islamic law) and are a fairly peaceful part of the country. Maybe this should be done to all of Somalia, just split it up and let each part govern itself.

As above, anyway they does not have a say on what part of Islam is strict or not. It is not a dictate of any person whim and desire. So alsong as they are trying to apply the Islamic ruling despite the challenges and mishap they face it is alright.
Soccer should be the least concern of the somalian people considering they state of the country. The decision on restriction on soccer might well be matter of fiqh due to the circumstance of the society.

here is a source for my facts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

p.s. Wikipedia is not a source of absolute fact neither truth. It is a collection of information from variouse sources itself that may have many problems of their own.

Just a note & advice never write your thesis as wikipedia as your reference, you will be sure to get a poor mark at the worse fail.

[MTAFFI]

But there was never a non muslim who rose up agiasnt the islamic shariah before. In afganistan the people who fought agiasnt Taliban were muslims because they were fooled with lies and propoganda. In Somalia the people who started to fight agiasnt the islamist were the christian ethopia which should not even get involved into this in the first place. If you saying the civil wars are caused by shariah because others dont accept it. But thats not true if you go to afganistan today and ask northern alliance if they agree with shariah they will tell you yes. Majority of these civil wars happen becuase other nations get involved.

I think that maybe I am just a firm believer in democracy and the separation of church and state. On this we must agree to disagree because there are pros and cons to each and we could go around and around all day on this. However I will agree that Ethiopia didnt really have any business in Somalia. I think they may have just feared the violence in Somalia would spill over into their country. The only thing that justifies the US doing what it did recently is the ICU sheltering the people that bombed those embassies. If they have such good intentions and only want good for their country why would they allow these people to hide out in their country? They had to know the trouble this would bring, this is what makes me and alot of other people question the ICU intentions.

Iran claims it follows shariah just like pakistan and saudi arabia. So if you do research you will end up getting confused thinking they really do follow shariah.

So what is Iran then? I did some research and they do appear to follow shariah. (I am not trying to be argumentative or anything I just would like a Muslims perspective on their rule)

As far as what you say about the islamist being this criminal. Thats untrue! Everyone knows that islamist brought peace to Somalia I even seen interviews conducted by BBC where the Somalia people themselves said they like what the islamist have done so far.

I also continued researching this and found that you are right in many cases! I think that the warlords did need to be overthrown because it seems the ICU was stopping violence in many areas. However again I must wonder about their true intentions when they harbor the known bombers of the American embassies. Also I think that it could easily work both ways there as I said look at Somaliland and Puntland, why does it have to be Islamic Rule? Why is this so important, if Muslims already live under this rule why do they need a government to enforce it? If you are letting another man (or government) decide the punishment for your sins, isnt that like someone playing God?

They banned television so what? America banned Child porn is that too extreme for you too??? Television leds to evils such as pornography and everyone knows this no need for a debate on this matter.

Banning child porn and banning soccer are two very very very different things, I was just pointing out how strict they are trying to be on their people and I know that many do not agree with this. Soccer is a big deal in Somalia, so why should these people be deprived of it? There is nothing immoral about it. Television does bring many "evils" but it also brings a lot of knowledge and entertainment, I suppose it is up to you watch and dont watch

PEACE

[Sami Zaatari]

mtaffi u prove ur a rookie.

war=MONEY, not for U, but for UR GOVERMENT, for bush, rumsfeld, cheyney, and the millitary industrial complex, do u know how much money this business makes from war? BILLIONS A DAY, so good u get it, u get poor while the ELITE get more rich, finally u get it! u will lose, not them, they are a small group, again its called MILLITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, they make billions from war, so go learn before saying my logic is flawed, ur on fox news garbage. these men will kill u if u try to make peace, because with peace they dont make money, they need war to make their billions. didnt u know rumsefly cheyney all work in millitary companies that makes billions from war? not only these 2, but bush too and many others in ur goverment

and as they keep making billions they get more powerful, and with their power they dominate. he who has money has the power, and they make billionsssss from war. this is not about U, u think they care for u? lol ur less than an ant to them, infact ur their slave, u do what they want, think what they want, they will send u to iraq, afghan all under a fake smoke-screen of fighting terror, lol ur already sucked in u say ppl are saying they wanna make holy war on us! see they already control u and brainwash u into thinking that so they can go fight their fake war on terror making ppl like u buy it.

[MTAFFI]

What millitia that was loyal to the ICU and killing innocent people?

I will have to do more research to find a name for this militia (if it even has one), I just know they were a militia loyal to the ICU and the laws the ICU wish to implement

Muslims cannot ellect wheter they wan't to have Islamic Law upon them or not. Aslong as they are following the Quran and the sunnah, despite the upheaval any many challenge they face from their enemy and hyprocrite.

So then, as I said above why is it that they need a government to enforce this for them. I will say again if you tell someone to enforce the laws of a religion isnt that like giving the power of God to them? Not only that but what if someone is wrongly accused and punished, then not only does it create a flaw in the government but in the religion as well. Since God knows all and can see all he should be the only judge and his book should be the only enforcer of any particular religion


As above, anyway they does not have a say on what part of Islam is strict or not. It is not a dictate of any person whim and desire. So alsong as they are trying to apply the Islamic ruling despite the challenges and mishap they face it is alright.

Again, I ask who are they to apply the law of ones religion? Did Allah appoint these people to judge people for him?

Soccer should be the least concern of the somalian people considering they state of the country. The decision on restriction on soccer might well be matter of fiqh due to the circumstance of the society.

I was simply giving an example of just how strict this particular group wishes to be and that many dont agree with it, which causes fights and uprising. To a degree it is almost oppression to dictate whether or not someone can watch a soccer game, do you not agree?




p.s. Wikipedia is not a source of absolute fact neither truth. It is a collection of information from variouse sources itself that may have many problems of their own.

Just a note & advice never write your thesis as wikipedia as your reference, you will be sure to get a poor mark at the worse fail.

Wikipedia has references that you can follow, each claim I made, based on the facts that I obtained from that site, can be substanciated by simply following any links and validating the source. I agree with you though that it is not always correct, but really what is? Personally I like wikipedia, some say it is biased in areas but I think it gives good evidence to support many of its claims. I see people using news articles all of the time on this site for sources and how "absolute" is that?

PEACE

[MTAFFI]

mtaffi u prove ur a rookie.

it seems you are the rookie my friend

war=MONEY, not for U, but for UR GOVERMENT, for bush, rumsfeld, cheyney, and the millitary industrial complex, do u know how much money this business
makes from war?
I would like to see a source for this claim, I have seen this conspiracy theory before but never substantiated. There are businesses that make money while rebuilding in war, however I would like to see a direct relation to the government bringing in money on this since they are the ones paying it out. I already know you are going to say "They pay it out into their own pockets" However please provide a direct link from these companies to anyone in office in Washington. Also please consider that the cost of labor is far far far less than the cost of materials. That are being provided to some of these countries out of my pocket

BILLIONS A DAY, so good u get it, u get poor while the ELITE get more rich, finally u get it!

Please know that I am very far from poor

u will lose, not them, they are a small group, again its called MILLITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX,

This is a conspiracy theory and since you are the rookie here I will remind you those are banned on this site

they make billions from war, so go learn before saying my logic is flawed, ur on fox news garbage. these men will kill u if u try to make peace, because with peace they dont make money, they need war to make their billions. didnt u know rumsefly cheyney all work in millitary companies that makes billions from war? not only these 2, but bush too and many others in ur goverment

Really? Please elaborate, tell me one company they are involved with in profiteering from this war. It is illegal and believe me, watchdog companies in the US would expose this long before someone like you would

and as they keep making billions they get more powerful, and with their power they dominate. he who has money has the power, and they make billionsssss from war.

wrong

this is not about U, u think they care for u? lol ur less than an ant to them, infact ur their slave, u do what they want, think what they want, they will send u to iraq, afghan all under a fake smoke-screen of fighting terror, lol ur already sucked in u say ppl are saying they wanna make holy war on us! see they already control u and brainwash u into thinking that so they can go fight their fake war on terror making ppl like u buy it.

it seems you are brainwashed my friend, I actually typed a long paragraph attempting to explain all of this to you but I can tell by what you have already posted that it would be pointless. Believe what you want but the only one behind a smoke screen is you, the only one brainwashed is you, and the only one who thinks and does what anyone wants is you. I pity you really

PEACE

[Islamicboy]

I think that maybe I am just a firm believer in democracy and the separation of church and state. On this we must agree to disagree because there are pros and cons to each and we could go around and around all day on this. However I will agree that Ethiopia didnt really have any business in Somalia. I think they may have just feared the violence in Somalia would spill over into their country. The only thing that justifies the US doing what it did recently is the ICU sheltering the people that bombed those embassies. If they have such good intentions and only want good for their country why would they allow these people to hide out in their country? They had to know the trouble this would bring, this is what makes me and alot of other people question the ICU intentions.

America lied on killing the so called bombers. Also Al Qaeda had said they were not responsible for those attacks.

So what is Iran then? I did some research and they do appear to follow shariah. (I am not trying to be argumentative or anything I just would like a Muslims perspective on their rule)

Iran does follow few Shariah rules but also adds alot of other laws. Because of this the shariah in Iran is not legimate and Iran adds and deletes whatever is in the best interest for the Iran leaders.

Banning child porn and banning soccer are two very very very different things, I was just pointing out how strict they are trying to be on their people and I know that many do not agree with this. Soccer is a big deal in Somalia, so why should these people be deprived of it? There is nothing immoral about it. Television does bring many "evils" but it also brings a lot of knowledge and entertainment, I suppose it is up to you watch and dont watch

Because of television the world is so immoral today. Porn is much easy to access now days. Turn on the television its practically porn or just close it and these shows in canada are called "family show". Television is responisble for the evils such as rape, adultery etc..

[Skillganon]

Hello again, I really did not notice you hade quoted me with all that blue and black.

So then, as I said above why is it that they need a government to enforce this for them. I will say again if you tell someone to enforce the laws of a religion isnt that like giving the power of God to them? Not only that but what if someone is wrongly accused and punished, then not only does it create a flaw in the government but in the religion as well. Since God knows all and can see all he should be the only judge and his book should be the only enforcer of any particular religion.

If one go to any country the Law is enforced. I never heard of a country where the law is no enforced. Incase of Islam it is the Law that Allah(s.w.t) and his messenger has basicly commanded to and no it is not upto the perpetuator to enforce the law upon himself or to dictate it to his whim and desire. The Law is applicable to everyone equally the rich and the poor the powerful and the weak. If one wan't to specify some flaws in Islamic Law than please make a seperate thread.

As above, anyway they does not have a say on what part of Islam is strict or not. It is not a dictate of any person whim and desire. So alsong as they are trying to apply the Islamic ruling despite the challenges and mishap they face it is alright.

Again, I ask who are they to apply the law of ones religion? Did Allah appoint these people to judge people for him?

I think you miss the point, the Law is Allah's Judgement and it is not the appointee's dictate and desire. So in some sense his command (Law) is his judgement.

Soccer should be the least concern of the somalian people considering they state of the country. The decision on restriction on soccer might well be matter of fiqh due to the circumstance of the society.

I was simply giving an example of just how strict this particular group wishes to be and that many dont agree with it, which causes fights and uprising. To a degree it is almost oppression to dictate whether or not someone can watch a soccer game, do you not agree?

no...because they might have seen lot of harm in it and cosidering the situation as I said it is the least thing to worry about, although it may not be exactly forbidden.... I cannot comment on the rulling or reason they have prohibited it but it is a negligble.

Wikipedia has references that you can follow, each claim I made, based on the facts that I obtained from that site, can be substanciated by simply following any links and validating the source. I agree with you though that it is not always correct, but really what is? Personally I like wikipedia, some say it is biased in areas but I think it gives good evidence to support many of its claims. I see people using news articles all of the time on this site for sources and how "absolute" is that

I agree it can be biased and no one is free from that, however I seen mis-information. One has to consider the information alway's is not neccessarily free of miss-information or ommision even the reference sources used. It may be better to get an all rounder approach. Althought Wikipedia by terms of percentage it offers more information but most are poor standard.

[MTAFFI]

America lied on killing the so called bombers. Also Al Qaeda had said they were not responsible for those attacks.

I think the Somali government said that the US killed the bombers, i made a post earlier where the US said they managed to escape but were still after them with some ground units. Also, I never said that they were Al Qaeda, just that they bombed the US embassies, this is what makes me question the ICU's intentions. Besides, I dont really put a name on terrorist such as "Al Qaeda", I think people use that too much, I think these guys had their own agenda, which is scary because who knows what there agenda might be with the Somali ICU.

Iran does follow few Shariah rules but also adds alot of other laws. Because of this the shariah in Iran is not legimate and Iran adds and deletes whatever is in the best interest for the Iran leaders.

oh ok, now i understand. I dont really like Iran to much and what is sad is they put themselves out there like they are the spokesman for the Islamic world

Because of television the world is so immoral today. Porn is much easy to access now days. Turn on the television its practically porn or just close it and these shows in canada are called "family show". Television is responisble for the evils such as rape, adultery etc..

Television can be immoral but like I said everyone has the chance to just turn the TV off or change the channel. I must admit, I watch a lot of things that Muslims would consider immoral (MTV, Late night tv, comedy shows) but to me it is just tv. Definitely nothing to live my life by or to influence me in any way

PEACE

[MTAFFI]

Hello again, I really did not notice you hade quoted me with all that blue and black.

sorry about that

If one go to any country the Law is enforced. I never heard of a country where the law is no enforced.

I think you may have misunderstood me, I am not saying that the law isnt enforced I am saying that the law is based on a religion, and that law is enforced by man, whereas I would think the only one who could enforce the laws of religion would be God himself. This is why I say it is kind of like giving the power of God the government.

I agree it can be biased and no one is free from that, however I seen mis-information. One has to consider the information alway's is not neccessarily free of miss-information or ommision even the reference sources used. It may be better to get an all rounder approach. Althought Wikipedia by terms of percentage it offers more information but most are poor standard.

I could agree with that, I have read several things on there where I had to ask myself who published the info.

PEACE

[akulion]

The saddest part is that unfortunately we Muslims do not have a state, so the law is irrelevant since if there is no legal framework and no government, then i is bound to fail.

We desperately need a Caliphate

[Saif4U]

well well.. this is nothing new of the USA... Pay the Ethiopians to help the WarLords in somalia.. and then throw a few bombs themselves for the fun of it... and oh yess lets not forget the good old Al-Qaeda threat..that basically shuts any government in the world to speak out Not that they would anyway.. but you mention Al-Qaeda .. and all of a sudden the whole world community turn a blind eye.. Although western reporters are reporting that the Islamic Courts had bought peace and security just like the Taliban did .yet the world wants the warlords to return.. What it boils down to is the west cannot see a government thats calls for Shariah to be a success, so werver they see one emerging they make sure they make it a failed state.. But they plan and Allah s.w.t plans and he is the BEST of Planners.. Allahuma ansural mujahideen fee kuli makaan..ameeen

[Trumble]

Television is responisble for the evils such as rape, adultery etc..

Which never happened before television, of course...:rollseyes

[Islamicboy]

Which never happened before television, of course...:rollseyes

Not on the level it happens now. Before television there were bad people who commited adultery, raped, etc.. But now after television people commit adutlery and are very open about it. Rape around the world specially america is on its all time high. I am not saying television is the only source to blame its more the secular culture that did this too the world.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

thats pathetic pathetic and once again pathetic. How about for one second the US stops thinking about Al Qaeda (they must really love them) and go after Ethiopia for starting the war. Gee there's a thought.

[Keltoi]

thats pathetic pathetic and once again pathetic. How about for one second the US stops thinking about Al Qaeda (they must really love them) and go after Ethiopia for starting the war. Gee there's a thought.

The U.S. should stop thinking about Al-Qaeda???? :rollseyes Yeah, I bet Al-Qaeda would agree with you.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I said for a second. Why so much thought on finding al qaeda in somalia instead of first dealing with a country that started the war? ill tell u why, cuz it aint muslim majority. i dont even care if u wouldnt accept it, but what can i say, people hate the truth. I guess Al qaeda can fly around like lil birdies and get into a Muslim country:rolleyes:

[Keltoi]

I said for a second. Why so much thought on finding al qaeda in somalia instead of first dealing with a country that started the war? ill tell u why, cuz it aint muslim majority. i dont even care if u wouldnt accept it, but what can i say, people hate the truth.

Perhaps because the U.S. isn't as concerned about who you think "started the war", they are concerned with capturing and killing Al-Qaeda members.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Exactly!!!!! who i think? how about who did. now theres a thought.

[Keltoi]

Exactly!!!!! who i think? how about who did. now theres a thought.

I fail to see your point. The U.S. military in the region were tasked with one mission, find, kill or capture members of Al-Qaeda living in Somalia. This issue of the conflict in Somalia, while important politically to the region, isn't the first priority of the United States.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Gee ur only makin my point stronger. thank you.

[Keltoi]

Gee ur only makin my point stronger. thank you.

Are you suggesting you would support U.S. military action against Ethiopia? Why is that? Because they are fighting Muslims?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Well duh, cuz they started a war wit a country thats already kinda messed up. But not just Muslims, but any innocent in a country that are vulnerable to attacks.

[Keltoi]

Well duh, cuz they started a war wit a country thats already kinda messed up.

The U.S. attempted to aid Somalia in the past. Now they are on their own. The only reason the U.S. is involved in the region at all is because Al-Qaeda have found safe haven there.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

How does the US expect to bring "peace" to the world, when they cant bring peace in their own country, or even their own homes? :rolleyes:

[Keltoi]

How does the US expect to bring "peace" to the world, when they cant bring peace in their own country, or even their own homes? :rolleyes:

I fail to see what that statement has to do with anything we have been discussing...:rollseyes

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It does...
Thats the main goal of the US isnt it? in everything they do? well "supposedly" their goal.

[Keltoi]

It does...
Thats the main goal of the US isnt it? in everything they do? well "supposedly" their goal.

The "main goal" of the U.S. is to defend and preserve peace for its own people. Many politicians in the U.S. believe that the best way to do this is to aid in the spread of democratic principles. However, the only goal of the U.S. in Somalia at this time is to kill Al-Qaeda members and affiliates.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

They should start the peace from inside their country first and work their way out. It looks kinda stupid if u dont have peace in ur own country and go out telling people to have peace.
Anways i think im wayyy off.

[Keltoi]

They should start the peace from inside their country first and work their way out. It looks kinda stupid if u dont have peace in ur own country and go out telling people to have peace.
Anways i think im wayyy off.

What peace are you talking about? A country without crime? That is fairly hard to do, especially in a country as large as the United States. However, you are right, this is way off the topic.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

They can lessen it, but its only increasing...so is rape etc..
ok neways yea back on topic :)

[AHMED_GUREY]

I fail to see your point. The U.S. military in the region were tasked with one mission, find, kill or capture members of Al-Qaeda living in Somalia.

and they neither found,killed or captured the men they claim to pursue

no!

but they did find,kill and destroy between 70/150 farmers and nomads

so the mission failed miserable indeed!

This issue of the conflict in Somalia, while important politically to the region, isn't the first priority of the United States.

Then the US should simply stay out of our business and stop arming or supporting our munafiiq terrorists who terrorize us like there is no tommorow

Idi Amin and Mugabe get scrutinized left and right but our Idi Amin's are with force returned to power but i get it , i get it!... these East African warlords and dictators might be Sons of a [..bleeps..] but in the end they are America's Sons of [..bleeps..] so the warlords and dictators are no problem to US conscience

West: ugh Ahmedinejad Taliban Taliban Veil veil Stoning stoning oehh Hamas Hizbollah regime change change change free world free world new middle east we gotta do something!!!!! yeah yeah your right your right

Habashi people: ........Meles massacres help us...

West: umm he's our friend

Habashi people: Meles zenawi is a dictator that lost the last election and fired with life ammo on his own people during demonstrations and locked up thousands as well as all the opposition parties how can he be your friend?

West: ummm which massacres??

Habashi people: the ones that happened in 2005/2006

West: ummmm...uhhh ummmm uhhhhh ummmmm??

Habashi people: the november massacre here's the link and the Aunuk massacres

West: Was Ahmedinejad involved??

Habashi people no!

West: Taliban or hizbollah??

Habashi people: no!!!

West: Any women who were wearing veils??

Habashi people: again no!!! did you even read the link??

West: wich link? i don't see any link???

Habashi people: check again!!!!!

West: ummm uhhhh ummmmmmm uhhhhh??

Habashi people Somali Muslims,Shariah Law, Islamic State

West: what what what?? Taliban?????? where's my favourite dictator Meles Zenawi where where where?? where are my favourite warlords where where where?? shoot them invade the land attack from the air and from the sea

choke them!!! don't let them establish the thing they want the most no we will force good ol western freedom and democracy into this country and let the Idi amin's reek havoc so we in the future can make a nice example of another failed dictator in the oh so poor Africa

:thumbs_up

Are you suggesting you would support U.S. military action against Ethiopia?

no military action is needed calm down

Why is that? Because they are fighting Muslims?

no because..

1 Meles Zenawi is a dictator who massacred his own people and continues to oppress them because he lost the last election and threw thousands and thousands of innocent Habashi's in jail

2 the great Habashi people themselves do not appreciate the support the TPLF is currently receiving from Washington cause it's prolonging TPLF's stay in power

3 his gross humanrights violations on the Gambella people

what happened to the ''we oppose oppressive regime'' slogan?

last time i checked a man who was hanged a month ago was toppled because he was a dictator allthough previous WMD's that were never found was the main reason of the invasion:rollseyes

The U.S. attempted to aid Somalia in the past. Now they are on their own.

What do you mean now? we were allready on our own for the last decade and many regions improved greatly, many sectors outdo neighbouring countries with a centralized government

The only reason the U.S. is involved in the region at all is because Al-Qaeda have found safe haven there.

you mean Al-Sumaal? i know i know all those Al's

it's very confusing

[MTAFFI]

They can lessen it, but its only increasing...so is rape etc..
ok neways yea back on topic :)

not to bring this back off topic, but you are actually very wrong, and many of your points arent points at all, they seem more like mindless rants to take attention away from what is really going on. Stop pointing the finger at the US for all of your problems and take a look at yourself.

here is a link that shows crime in the US since the early 90's has actually decreased. How many Muslim countries can you say that about?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

**also dont come back with "oh look how high those numbers are" because when you compare it to th number of people it isnt that bad. Also I will find a site that shows compared to the rest of the world, and I already know that the US isnt the worst. I will substantiate with a link to another site as soon as I find the figures. So please dont talk unless you know what you are talking about:D

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I didnt say it was worst...dont put words in my mouth...

[MTAFFI]

I didnt say it was worst...dont put words in my mouth...

I didnt say you did.... dont put words in my mouth:D

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^lol alright. i apologize for any wrong info. the last time i checked, they said it was increasing. so i went by that :)

[Snowflake]

It seems that one by one Bush is going to attack all muslims countries on the pretence of suspected al-qaeda members. How can he justify attacking an entire country based on suspicions? Maybe al-qaeda members wherever they are should move to a non muslim country. Then let's see if Bush attacks it or not!


Hope he dies a rabid dog's death! Zaleel! :raging: :raging: :raging: ]

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^LOL! yea...

[MTAFFI]

It seems that one by one Bush is going to attack all muslims countries on the pretence of suspected al-qaeda members. How can he justify attacking an entire country based on suspicions? May al-qaeda members wherever they are should move to a non muslim country. Then let's see if Bush attacks it or not!

First of all they werentsuspected to be there, there were there. Second the operation wasnt based on suspicion, it was based on gathered intelligence that these people were there. You should be mad at those terrorist for hiding with a group that you support and putting them in danger.

Hope he dies a rabid dog's death! Zaleel! :raging: :raging: :raging: ]

wow.. that sounds like the peace Islam talks about so often ;D

[MTAFFI]

^^lol alright. i apologize for any wrong info. the last time i checked, they said it was increasing. so i went by that :)

it is all good, I dont mean to be a jerk about it but I love my country and I am always seeing it get ripped on, on this website

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

there is NO respect for anyone who kills innocents..ever.

[MTAFFI]

there is NO respect for anyone who kills innocents..ever.

so what do you think about suicide bombers, and the people that plant ied devices and the guys who blew up that US embassy?

[starfortress]

there is NO respect for anyone who kills innocents..ever.

Of course.

Imo, there were certain things that were considered very bad for countries to do. One of them was to attack another country,group,people etc,with one exception allowed, in the case where said only if they did something that you certainly sure and equally bad to your country.Also, one should never be surprised that the consequences of doing something very bad are not good.But that’s just you having an acid flashback.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

so what do you think about suicide bombers, and the people that plant ied devices and the guys who blew up that US embassy?

How can I comment on something that I don't know anything about? I dont live there and people aren't exactly truthful these days. I don't trust the news half the time, cuz its usually a mix of lies. Incase anyone asks me for my view, you wont get one. But the only thing u will here from me is, what was the root cause? Im not saying any of it is right. Either its true or its not.


Peace

[Skillganon]

Their is a cconsiderab;e involvement of Ethopias attack on somalia. Ethopia is their proxy in this case.

Secondly one should take perspective that basicly this so called Goverment of ex-war criminals (Ironically backed by the U.S) has taken ethopia to invade it's own country and fight against muslims (which ironically more than 95% are).
Next thing to consider is their are people who take glee seeing Islam being defeated and muslim losing in the role that Allah(s.w.t) has prescribed them upon. Importantly they will try to Justify their action at all cost with common rethoric.

[Skillganon]

so what do you think about suicide bombers, and the people that plant ied devices and the guys who blew up that US embassy?

No one needs to justify Injustice.

So what do you think about those who invade other countries, bomb and kill people and cause war e.t.c with the name of democracy, who speaks crap as fast as they digest.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^LOL at ur last line..:X

[MTAFFI]

No one needs to justify Injustice.

So what do you think about those who invade other countries, bomb and kill people and cause war e.t.c with the name of democracy, who speaks crap as fast as they digest.

I dont agree with it and never will, however if someone gives you a reason to invade and bomb and kill then that is what must be done. Although in this case no one invaded and caused war, war was already going on, and I do think Ethiopia doesnt have the best intentions but also they could just be worried about it spilling into their country.

Also the crap is spoken on both sides not just one, there is just as many lies and propoganda and hypocrisy in the Muslim world as there is everywhere else.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

So they invaded over somethin that didnt happen? Invasion over assumptions?
Talk about nutty.

[MTAFFI]

How can I comment on something that I don't know anything about? I dont live there and people aren't exactly truthful these days. I don't trust the news half the time, cuz its usually a mix of lies. Incase anyone asks me for my view, you wont get one. But the only thing u will here from me is, what was the root cause? Im not saying any of it is right. Either its true or its not.


Peace

the root of the cause was the US going to Saudia Arabia (upon request of the Saudi government) to help them fight. These people wanted to help but were turned down and decided to make the US the focal point of their anger.

[MTAFFI]

So they invaded over somethin that didnt happen? Invasion over assumptions?
Talk about nutty.

it is actually called preemtive, would you want to be a Christian country next to a Muslim country that has been fighting itself for almost 20 years? that is nutty, I would want the fighting to stop if I was them too

[Snowflake]

First of all they werentsuspected to be there, there were there. Second the operation wasnt based on suspicion, it was based on gathered intelligence that these people were there. You should be mad at those terrorist for hiding with a group that you support and putting them in danger.


wow.. that sounds like the peace Islam talks about so often ;D

oh of course I forgot how the Britain and France sat back and talked about peace when Hitler declared war on Poland?

Funny how it hurts you when suicide bombers kill your innocent people but when your lot kill innocent muslims, and we protest, Islam suddenly becomes an anti-peace religion! Wow talk about double standards!

DEATH TO BUSH! Kamina! I'm not exactly wishing for the death of an innocent man, am I? But a man who has the blood of millions of innocent people.

[MTAFFI]

oh of course I forgot how the Britain and France sat back and talked about peace when Hitler declared war on Poland?

what does that have to do with anything? Hitler is dead and so is that war, try living in the present

Funny how it hurts you when suicide bombers kill your innocent people but when your lot kill innocent muslims, and we protest, Islam suddenly becomes an anti-peace religion! Wow talk about double standards!

Islam is anti-peace because it continues to show itself killing itself and everyone around it to do what? The people at the market places, the people in the trade center, the people just driving down the road. They dont even have a target, it is just whoever is around is who gets it. At least when the US attacks they have a specific target

DEATH TO BUSH! Kamina! I'm not exactly wishing for the death of an innocent man, am I? But a man who has the blood of millions of innocent people.

just shows how peaceful you really are, God will judge Bush for what he has done, so who are you to judge whether or not he is innocent. What if I said Death to Islam, since it seems to provide the reasoning for these suicide bomders, just like Bush provides the reasoning to our soldiers.


very sad these people cant see they will never win this way

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

what does that have to do with anything? Hitler is dead and so is that war, try living in the present.

sometimes bringing up the past in necessary wen ppl wana ignore stuff thats been repetitive.

[Skillganon]

I dont agree with it and never will, however if someone gives you a reason to invade and bomb and kill then that is what must be done. Although in this case no one invaded and caused war, war was already going on, and I do think Ethiopia doesnt have the best intentions but also they could just be worried about it spilling into their country.

Also the crap is spoken on both sides not just one, there is just as many lies and propoganda and hypocrisy in the Muslim world as there is everywhere else.

I agree and one of those is hyprocrisy is somalia interim goverment. Secondly if you agree that if a country gives you reason to invade and bomb and kill than you agree that is what must be done in more specifically U.S . As well as many other countries.

Secondly the U.S reason is thier justification of what they intended, and they materialise reason to justifies their crimes, regardless if those reason have legitimate basis for such an act or if it is a real justification.

Secondly someone claiming that know one invaded and caused a war, is a misnomer. Ethopia is U.S proxy and they have invaded. Regardless of the war criminals behest(Interim Gov) which is pretty much aligns with U.S intention. Of course ethopia's intention much aligns with U.S.

Secondly U.S gov is well know of it's hyprocrisy, propagnada and obvious lies, do you deny that?

[Skillganon]

Islam is anti-peace because it continues to show itself killing itself and everyone around it to do what? The people at the market places, the people in the trade center, the people just driving down the road. They dont even have a target, it is just whoever is around is who gets it. At least when the US attacks they have a specific target

Which is if you do not with them(U.S) or is it because Jesus made them do it.

p.s And thank you for you "Islam is anti-peace" rethoric.

Secondly as a said no one has to justify injustice. So using those rethoric holds no water.

just shows how peaceful you really are, God will judge Bush for what he has done, so who are you to judge whether or not he is innocent. What if I said Death to Islam, since it seems to provide the reasoning for these suicide bomders, just like Bush provides the reasoning to our soldiers.
very sad these people cant see they will never win this way

So it's ok for Bush to wage it's war against Islam and muslim who follow their religion and strive for it, bomb them and kill them, than say he is innocent because God can Judge?



Peace.

[starfortress]

Mtaffi@

At least when the US attacks they have a specific target

US involvement, with or without the support of the transitional government, is not going to contribute to stability.Or maybe they want the transitional government to fail.And al-Qaeda seems to be a code for whoever being bombed.You know what.Do we have a trust in US intelligence reports:?Of course NO....Plus The U.S have no credibility anymore. So even if there was solid proof for this action... nobody would believe it anyway.

[MTAFFI]

I agree and one of those is hyprocrisy is somalia interim goverment. Secondly if you agree that if a country gives you reason to invade and bomb and kill than you agree that is what must be done in more specifically U.S . As well as many other countries.

I agree that the Somali government is a joke, and it is a shame the US has any association (openly or not) with that.

Secondly the U.S reason is thier justification of what they intended, and they materialise reason to justifies their crimes, regardless if those reason have legitimate basis for such an act or if it is a real justification.

This could be said about anyone, but these guys were there and that is why the US had to attack. Those guys killed hundreds of people in a senseless act of violence. Not one of the people in that embassy had anything to do with Saudi Arabia, and they just killed them to kill Americans. What if people everywhere said "Well these Muslims keep attacking so lets just kill them all without discretion"? That is like ethnic cleansing which is basically what these guys and alot of these extremist are doing.

Secondly someone claiming that know one invaded and caused a war, is a misnomer. Ethopia is U.S proxy and they have invaded. Regardless of the war criminals behest(Interim Gov) which is pretty much aligns with U.S intention. Of course ethopia's intention much aligns with U.S.

It is without a doubt that Somalia has been invaded but what I was saying is that this war has been going on for what seems like forever now. I was just saying if I were in Ethiopia I would not be comfortable living next to the people of Somalia. Who knows what they may be capable of...

Secondly U.S gov is well know of it's hyprocrisy, propagnada and obvious lies, do you deny that?

I would say there is much more of it than there should be, however alot of it is perpetuated by the media, just as everything else is these days. To your point though the US government does need to clean itself up a bit though

[Snowflake]

=MTAFFI;626666]what does that have to do with anything? Hitler is dead and so is that war, try living in the present

what that has to do with it is proof that you who call Islam an anti-peace religion think it's ok for you to attack other countries for your own interests.. have done in the past and are still doin it today.

Islam is anti-peace because it continues to show itself killing itself and everyone around it to do what? The people at the market places, the people in the trade center, the people just driving down the road. They dont even have a target, it is just whoever is around is who gets it. At least when the US attacks they have a specific target

Believe what u like but lemme tell you something. If islam was anti-peace and our Quran preached terror, every muslim would be guilty of killing a non muslims. You should be grateful Islam is fair and only commands to kill oppressors. Or no other religion would have existed.

EDiT: oh and about targets? The only targets the US hit were innocent civilians. And you talk about target. Hospitals, schools, houses all fell down by themselves I suppose. Talk sense please.

just shows how peaceful you really are, God will judge Bush for what he has done, so who are you to judge whether or not he is innocent. What if I said Death to Islam, since it seems to provide the reasoning for these suicide bomders, just like Bush provides the reasoning to our soldiers.

lol u mean you haven't already said that? Or other non msulims haven't said that? We have already heard it so even if you say it makes no difference because islam will never die! And please don't be so naive to think that gives reason to suicide bombers. Their reason is that you are killing our innocent brothers and sisters, innocent children in cold blood. That is the reason.
Would you sit there and let a super power blow the crap out of your country cuz a few terrorists are hiding there? Would you let a super power blow up your people cuz of a few wanted people. Would you let them destroy your houses, your lives and everything you've achieved? Just sit there and watch your land turn red with blood then say you have no reason to retaliate? But how would you know, it's not happening to you is it!?

very sad these people cant see they will never win this way

lol thank you for proving again that all muslims are the same for you, (you already Islam is anti-peace) but for us muslims, we ONLY hate the oppressors. This is JUSTICE. This is FAIRNESS. And This is ISLAM!

[MTAFFI]

Which is if you do not with them(U.S) or is it because Jesus made them do it.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here

p.s And thank you for you "Islam is anti-peace" rethoric.

That actually came out wrong, and I apologize for that, I personally dont think Islam is anti-peace, I was referring to how many people view Islam because of the current events. Muslimah sis mentioned the anti peace thing first.

Secondly as a said no one has to justify injustice. So using those rethoric holds no water.

I am not justifying it, I am saying that those people need to be caught and brought to justice. They killed alot of people and the US will hunt them down until they die.

So it's ok for Bush to wage it's war against Islam and muslim who follow their religion and strive for it, bomb them and kill them, than say he is innocent because God can Judge?

I think this is a misconception, Bush doesnt want all of Islam and muslims to fall, just the ones that are killing so many people. If that were the case something would have to be done about the Muslims in the US and that just wont happen. The only people he is after are the people behind these attacks in the middle east. As for his "God can judge" comment, well he is an idiot and idiots say stupid things

PEACE

[Skillganon]

This could be said about anyone, but these guys were there and that is why the US had to attack. Those guys killed hundreds of people in a senseless act of violence. Not one of the people in that embassy had anything to do with Saudi Arabia, and they just killed them to kill Americans. What if people everywhere said "Well these Muslims keep attacking so lets just kill them all without discretion"? That is like ethnic cleansing which is basically what these guys and alot of these extremist are doing.

First it is said they where suspect, suspecting is not a justification and even if it was true it does not warrant an attack and support for invasion. Secondly their is more than likely that their are anti-american(bush) around their like most countries who will not work for U.S interest or comply with their wished. Still it is not a justification. Secondly U.S is at war with muslims who do not comply with them and are opposed to their war, and this does not justify killing in the name of Jesus.
Next since U.S is at war than any attack against them in primarily defensive is justified.
Also to note that U.S war with Islam and the muslim will create more attack on U.S embassy. I do not know the position of Islam on that, but it should be expected that once you go to war you will face attack.

Secondly claiming a and ambiguose term and rehtoric of "War on Terrorism" holds no water. Next he is an open Liar.

that Somalia has been invaded but what I was saying is that this war has been going on for what seems like forever now. I was just saying if I were in Ethiopia I would not be comfortable living next to the people of Somalia. Who knows what they may be capable of...

LEt's turn this around and say if I was Somalia I will not feel comfortable next to the people in Ethopia.

I would say there is much more of it than there should be, however alot of it is perpetuated by the media, just as everything else is these days. To your point though the US government does need to clean itself up a bit though

U.S goverment need to withdraw, de-militarised and move back to their country, go to court for war crime and pay compensation for the damage.

[MTAFFI]

Mtaffi@
US involvement, with or without the support of the transitional government, is not going to contribute to stability.Or maybe they want the transitional government to fail.
And al-Qaeda seems to be a code for whoever being bombed.You know what.Do we have a trust in US intelligence reports:?Of course NO....Plus The U.S have no credibility anymore. So even if there was solid proof for this action... nobody would believe it anyway.

Nobody as in the Muslims, those guys were there you can refute the truth to suit your own interest if you want but it makes you no better than the people you talk about. *Also the men involved in the embassy bombings trained with Osama, so I would say they are Al-Qaeda, why is it no one wants to accept that Al-Qaeda is behind alot of these attacks, I mean how many of these groups do you think that there are? Would it make you feel better if we made up a bunch of new names and just changed it up a bit, we just call them what they call themselves

[MTAFFI]

what that has to do with it is proof that you who call Islam an anti-peace religion think it's ok for you to attack other countries for your own interests.. have done in the past and are still doin it today.

You said anti-peace first, I was simply responding, read my other post to skillganon, I was meaning to say this is how Islam is being labeled by a lot of people, not that I think it is, I have Muslim friends and they are peace loving people

Believe what u like but lemme tell you something. If islam was anti-peace and our Quran preached terror, every muslim would be guilty of killing a non muslims. You should be grateful Islam is fair and only commands to kill oppressors. Or no other religion would have existed.

maybe but where would Islam be all of its people would have blown themselves up to get rid of everyone else

Their reason is that you are killing our innocent brothers and sisters, innocent children in cold blood. That is the reason.

right so they go and do that and they are heros and martyrs, what is the difference

Would you sit there and let a super power blow the crap out of your country cuz a few terrorists are hiding there? Would you let a super power blow up your people cuz of a few wanted people. Would you let them destroy your houses, your lives and everything you've achieved? Just sit there and watch your land turn red with blood then say you have no reason to retaliate? But how would you know, it's not happening to you is it!?

terrorist wont hide in the US because they know the US would be all over them, to bad all countries dont have that policy huh? Otherwise none of this would be going on

lol thank you for proving again that all muslims are the same for you, (you already Islam is anti-peace) but for us muslims, we ONLY hate the oppressors. This is JUSTICE. This is FAIRNESS. And This is ISLAM!

thanks for putting words in my mouth, as I said I have Muslim friends so they arent all the same to me and many are very good people, however there is a high concentration of the bad one in the mid east

[AHMED_GUREY]

I was just saying if I were in Ethiopia I would not be comfortable living next to the people of Somalia.

We have been living next to each other for millenia's in peace and we have the same ancestors so it's irrelevant what an outsider ignorant of Somali/Habashi relations thinks so your sinister comments are not needed

Who knows what they may be capable of...

Sure a booming cross border trade with the Somalis from Somalia is so scary oehh

being able to use the nr 1 port of East africa in Djibouti to export your goods is a bad thing right especially when your a landlocked country?

who would want a Somali entrepreneur starting a booming coffee company in your country? nobody right? :rollseyes despite coffee being Ethiopia's main export commodity :rollseyes

Like i said your sinister comments are irrelevant:)

[starfortress]

Nobody as in the Muslims, those guys were there you can refute the truth to suit your own interest if you want but it makes you no better than the people you talk about. *Also the men involved in the embassy bombings trained with Osama, so I would say they are Al-Qaeda, why is it no one wants to accept that Al-Qaeda is behind alot of these attacks, I mean how many of these groups do you think that there are? Would it make you feel better if we made up a bunch of new names and just changed it up a bit, we just call them what they call themselves

Then how about this words "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY":? It's sick to heard Suspects,Assumption,Guessing when it was involved with people life+o(

[Keltoi]

Then how about this words "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY":? It's sick to heard Suspects,Assumption,Guessing when it was involved with people life+o(

They didn't rob a candy store, they killed hundreds of people, mostly Africans by the way. They are militant in nature and they got and will get a militant response. Live by the sword and die by the sword.

[MTAFFI]

First it is said they where suspect, suspecting is not a justification and even if it was true it does not warrant an attack and support for invasion. Secondly their is more than likely that their are anti-american(bush) around their like most countries who will not work for U.S interest or comply with their wished.

show me where he was only "suspected" to be there, he was there and that is justification, as you say they attacked the us and any country harboring them should expect to be attacked, this is why you dont allow these people in your country unless you are prepared for the reprecussion.

Still it is not a justification. Secondly U.S is at war with muslims who do not comply with them and are opposed to their war, and this does not justify killing in the name of Jesus.

The Muslims that dont agree with the war go and fight in it so again there is justification, they shouldnt go to war if they dont expect to get fought back

Next since U.S is at war than any attack against them in primarily defensive is justified.

So you are saying that any attack should be considered a defensive attack? That is fine but who was this terrorist defending? Saudi Arabia? I dont think so he had no reason to attack in 1998.

Also to note that U.S war with Islam and the muslim will create more attack on U.S embassy. I do not know the position of Islam on that, but it should be expected that once you go to war you will face attack.

again there was no good reason for him to bomb that embassy in 1998.

Secondly claiming a and ambiguose term and rehtoric of "War on Terrorism" holds no water. Next he is an open Liar.

The war on terrorism started when the Muslim extremist group attacked the US, should there have been no response? It is a war on terrorism it just so happens that pretty much all of the terrorist are Muslim, that isnt the US's fault, if it was the japanese it would be a war on terrorism with the japs

LEt's turn this around and say if I was Somalia I will not feel comfortable next to the people in Ethopia.

Why would they be, that hadnt had conflict since the Red Terror?

U.S goverment need to withdraw, de-militarised and move back to their country, go to court for war crime and pay compensation for the damage.

And who will pay for the world trade center, and the embassies? Who will go to trial for war crimes on the other side. You must look at things on both sides to be intelligent (not saying you arent, just giving some personal advice) and to be heard. There is corruption on both sides of this war, it isnt all the US! Not only that but quite a few soldiers have faced military court for war crimes in America and believe me you dont want to be in that court. What punishment has been given out to the terrorist fighters? None because to them there are no rules of war

[starfortress]

They didn't rob a candy store, they killed hundreds of people, mostly Africans by the way. They are militant in nature and they got and will get a militant response. Live by the sword and die by the sword.

And on that airstrike: "My four-year-old boy was killed in the strike," Muhammad Mahmud Burale said by telephone. "The plane was firing at other areas in Ras Kamboni. We could see smoke from the area. We also heard 14 massive explosions."

I think that boy wasn't a militant in nature.How's about you:-[

p/s-Im not African by the way.

[MTAFFI]

We have been living next to each other for millenia's in peace and we have the same ancestors so it's irrelevant what an outsider ignorant of Somali/Habashi relations thinks so your sinister comments are not needed

I said nothing sinister?!?! and I know you have the same ancestors, but when was the last time there was a raging war in Somalia? Say what you want but I wouldnt want to live next to a country that is not only at war but having a political uprising. Especially when you are a democratic state and the uprising is an Islamic State.

Sure a booming cross border trade with the Somalis from Somalia is so scary oehh

The only thing booming in Somalia is guns and bombs....lol check out their economy and trade partners, Ethiopia isnt even on the list so what are you talking about

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/so.html

being able to use the nr 1 port of East africa in Djibouti to export your goods is a bad thing right especially when your a landlocked country?

what port do they use now?

who would want a Somali entrepreneur starting a booming coffee company in your country? nobody right? :rollseyes despite coffee being Ethiopia's main export commodity :rollseyes

As far as Ethiopia goes they make the coffee beans so why would they want a Somali to make a coffee shop? They have 80% unemployment dont you think they might need that job, and how many entrepreneurs does Somalia have anyways???:? :rollseyes

Like i said your sinister comments are irrelevant:)

it seems you have the irrelevant comments, even though I dont think irrelevant would be the correct term here

[Keltoi]

I think that boy wasn't a militant in nature.How's about you:-[

p/s-Im not African by the way.

The issue is why the United States wants to kill these people instead of taking them to trial. I brought up the point about most of the victims being African because they killed hundreds of people who had nothing to do with the United States, other than working at an embassy.

[Snowflake]

MTAFFI why have you quoted someone else's entire post in MY name? (Post 147)


BBL to this thread...

[AHMED_GUREY]

I said nothing sinister?!?! and I know you have the same ancestors, but when was the last time there was a raging war in Somalia?

who keeps arming our Warlords??

Say what you want but I wouldnt want to live next to a country that is not only at war but having a political uprising. Especially when you are a democratic state and the uprising is an Islamic State.

again it's very obvious your ignorant of TPLF's dictatorship and track record of gross human rights violations on it's own citizens or else you wouldn't have called his regime a democratic one

http://www.ethrev.com/2006/may/001Ne..._of_Meles.html

The only thing booming in Somalia is guns and bombs....

dropped by the US

it's good your aware of this it shows progress:)

lol check out their economy and trade partners, Ethiopia isnt even on the list so what are you talking about

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/so.html

LOL indeed when the statistics used in the CIA world fact book is based on government info from 88/91 before it collapsed

Statistics on Somalia's GDP, growth, per capita income, and inflation should be viewed skeptically.-CIA

:D

what port do they use now?

Port Doraleh:statisfie

As far as Ethiopia goes they make the coffee beans so why would they want a Somali to make a coffee shop?

that company is far from a simple coffeeshop

They have 80% unemployment dont you think they might need that job,

wow :D this dude created hundreds of jobs what are you talking about? :D even some of my friends relatives are working for M.O.A

and how many entrepreneurs does Somalia have anyways???:? :rollseyes

I have no idea since there is no government to check it

but let me come with an old post wich i'm force to use on this forum ad nauseam because of the fact that some members take their info from outdated sources

WORLD BANK

Somalia flourished precisely because of the "world community’s" neglect.

In Somalia, "the very absence of a government may have helped nurture an African oddity — a lean and efficient business sector that does not feed at a public trough controlled by corrupt officials," wrote Peter Maas in the May 2001 issue of The Atlantic Monthly. Tele-communications, transportation, and shipping companies were organized up to provide services to the liberated private sector. Internet cafes have sprung up in Mogadishu. Private security firms helped businessmen protect their investments and property.

A recent World Bank study grudgingly admitted: "Somalia boasts lower rates of extreme poverty and, in some cases, better infrastructure than richer countries in Africa." This is almost certainly because it is not cursed with a World Bank-subsidized central government to siphon away the nation’s wealth.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman...rticle_996.sht ml

The Answer for Africa
by Shafer Parker


According to Andrew Cockburn in the July issue of National Geographic magazine, Somalia is rising, phoenix-like, from the ashes of the 1993 war and becoming an economic powerhouse in eastern Africa precisely because anarchy has reigned ever since. Consider Cockburn’s on-the-scene assessment of what has happened since the war. "Like plants sprouting after a forest fire, Somalis have managed to survive and build on their own, in some respects with more success than developing nations on the receiving end of international aid and advice."

Significantly, the Somalis get it. They have learned through experience that less government is good, and that no government is better. Hear what telecommunications tycoon Abdirizak Ido told Mr. Cockburn: "We have been through some hard times, but the worst was when we had a government. Once there was no government, there was opportunity!"

Somali Businesses Stunted by Too-Free Enterprise

By Ian Fisher


There are five competing airlines here; three phone companies, which have some of the cheapest rates in the world; at least two pasta factories; 45 private hospitals; 55 providers of electricity; 1,500 wholesalers for imported goods; and an infinite number of guys with donkeys who will deliver 55 gallons of clean water to your house for 25 cents.

What Somalia does not have is a government, and in many ways, that makes it the world's purest laboratory for capitalism. No one collects taxes. Business is booming. Libertarians of the world, unite


It is striking that Somalia, unlike many parts of Africa, has achieved this thriving business climate on its own, without the usual aid and advice from rich nations. They have all but disengaged from Somalia since the failure of the United Nations operation here in the early 1990's. Somalis have learned that they are pretty good at making money.

"It's entrepreneurism that's doing it," said Ahmed Abdisalam Adan, director of programs for Horn Afrik, Somalia's first independent radio and television station, established last year. "It's who has more creativity. It's who is willing to take risks. Before it was the government. The government could make you rich one day and poor the next


chinese investors

http://www.puntlandpost.com/newspage.php?articleid=5176

Business Attraction in Puntland, Somalia

Bossaso city has become a magnet for foreigners who want to invest in Africa. This week alone, there are about half a dozen business people representing Chinese and South Korean corporations in the city. These representatives and others who frequent Puntland want to invest in the region and expand their business to this part of the world. Interested people include wealthy business men from the Middle East.

Puntland (North Eastern Somalia) has not been touched by the country’s civil war and has remained stable after the fall of Somalia’s central government in 1991. It lies on the tip of East Africa and borders Indian Ocean and Red Sea.

• GAROWE, Somalia July 12 (Garowe Online)

THE PUNTLAND Parliament formally ratified an exploration agreement on Wednesday presented by the Administration in a majority vote. The "Puntland Agreement" was signed in mid-2005 between the Puntland State government and Range Resources, Ltd., an Australian exploration company.

After 2 days of debate, 55 Puntland lawmakers out of a total of 66 ratified the "Agreement" – a day after President Mohamud "Adde" Muse addressed Parliament and informed them of changes to an article in the "Agreement." On Tuesday, President Adde told legislators that the "exclusive rights" article was removed from the original contract, which allows Puntland to be divided into "blocks" and that "other companies" are welcome to explore the region's rumored natural resources wealth

Communication Networks

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4020259.stm

TELCOM SOMALIA

Telcom is the largest and the leading telecommunications network operator in Somalia. Telcom is the first major privately owned company providing telecommunications in Somalia territory. Telcom principal activities include local, long distance, national and international telecommunication, mobile communications, and a wide range of data services including broadband access.

http://www.telcom-somalia.com/index.htm

STG over the years has proven to be a lucrative successful telephone business venture. STG became a vital part of Somali people socially and commercially. Customer demand did not end only for voice and fax services; currently STG telecom services include GSM Mobile services, SMS, Prepaid telecom services, high speed internet, local and international long distance services through out the entire STG Network.

NATIONLINK

Headquartered in Mogadishu, Somalia, NationLink offers a variety of
telecom services including landline telephones, faxes, data, long range
cordless telephones and Internet services. NationLink is one of three major
telecommunications companies headquartered in Mogadishu that has participated
in collaborating to form a joint Internet company -- Somali Internet Company
(SICO) to provide services throughout the region

UNIVERSITIES

1

The university is a multipurpose institution. In addition to preparing competent professionals, it aims to be a community learning centre, an idea hub, a focal point for practical and theoretical research, and a development engine that makes real difference to lives of the people in the city and beyond.


2

BU was established in Mogadishu, Somalia in September 2002. The University has now four Faculties (Medicine, Computer Science, Education and Engineering). and there are plans to add other faculties at earliest possible time.

http://www.benadiruniversity.com/

3

MU shall take a pioneering role in filling the educational gap created during the civil war so as to provide higher education opportunities for the young generations of Somalia.

MU shall give students an opportunity of higher education and specialization in various spheres of sciences and literature in response to the desperate needs of the country for educated human resources.

MU shall develop indigenous scientific knowledge through encouraging focused research programs in the priority sectors

http://www.mogadishuuniversity.com/objectives.html

Future Complex now being build

4

Amoud University is a community-owned non-governmental, national University and open to all aspiring candidates who fulfill the admission requirements without discrimination based on sex, ethnic, origin, creed or color.

Faculties

Faculty of Education
Faculty of Business and Public Administration
Faculty of Medicine of Surgery
Faculty of Natural Resources (Department of Agriculture )
Faculty of Information & Communication Technology (Online )


5 Al-Neelain University in Mogadishu, Somalia

A branch of Al-Neelain Univ. in the Sudan (Runs in Arabic)
Economics and business administration

6 Science and Technology University of Yemen in Mog. Somalia

A branch of Yemenite university in Somalia

7 Umdurman University in Mogadishu, Somalia

A branch of a Sudani University in Somalia


8 The African University

Taleh in Hodan district of Mogadishu, Somalia

Main subjects taught

Arts and literature; and Sciences

9 Al-Tiba University

Islamic studies from Sharia to Ahadith, Tafseer and Aqeedah.

10 Hamar University

Business and adiminstration; Sharia and law

11 The Indian Ocean University

Main subjects taught

Economics and administration

12 Darul Ulum University

Religious studies

13 Islamiya University,

14 Somalia University

15 Furqaan University

16 Hargeisa University (2000)

Somaliland

website

Education, law, Islamic studies, sciences, medicine, business and languages.


17 Berbera University

Somaliland

Geosciences, ecology ( University under construction stage)


18 The East African University

Puntland

website

IT, journalism, finance and English


19 Nugaal University

Puntland

website

In construction stage


College or institute

1
Somali Institute of Management & Admin. Development (SIMAD College)

website

(Teaches to a degree level in 3 years).
ICT, Business Admin; Accounting, and Language and Communication. SIMAD offers higher diploma in 2 years of study.

2
National Institute of Nursing in Somalia
Nursing for 3 years

3 The High Nursing Institute of Mogadishu
An associate of Mogadishu University
3-years nursing programme

4 The SOS nursing school
Mogadishu, Somalia
Trains students to become professional community nurses.

5 Hayat Health Training Institute
Mogadishu, Somalia
Allied health sciences, nursing, physiotherapy

6 Benadir Teacher Training Institute
Female teacher training for primary schools for 2 yrs.
www.fpens.org

7 Dhokolow’s Basic Science Institute
Mogadishu, Somalia
Secondary and pre-tertiary (college) physics, chemistry, mathematics and biology.

8
The Express English Language Institute
Mogadishu, Somalia
Fast track system of learning the English language. Uses modern audio-visual aids.

9 The Maths Institute of Shuuci
Mogadishu, somalia
Teaches maths at secondary and pre-tertiary levels. A good preparation for university entrance maths.

10 Golis College

www.golliscollege.com

Hargeisa, Somaliland
Accounting, agriculture, art and design, business, building construction, ceramics, civil engineering, criminology and police science, electronics, electronics, English, IT, health sciences, law & jurisprudence, medical lab & radiology; pre-medicine, teacher training and textile

11 Hargeisa College of applied arts and technology
www.hargeisacollege.net

Hargeisa, Somaliland
Engineering, sciences, social science and humanities, business and IT.


there are 1172 primary schools in Somalia

http://www.webometrics.info/top100_c...ont=africa.htm

it has three universities in the top 100

one surpasses Ethiopia,Sudan,Ghana and the other 2 are higher ranked than Djibouti and Eritrea

DIASPORA

Dahabshiil has 75 agents in the UK and over 400 branches and agents world-wide

The quality of service differentiates Dahabshiil from its competitors. Dahabshiil is now recognised as the most reputable commercial enterprise in the sector. Customers call it trustworthy, reliable, cost-effective and efficient.

The company's long-term strategy is to remain the first choice of money transfer services for migrants from the Horn of Africa. Our mission is to be an innovative, customer-oriented company that consistently exceeds customers' expectations of service.


The diaspora anually pumps 2/3 billion into somalia

It may surprise you that we have been around for over 12 years. The company has grown from humble beginning with one Cessna aircraft in 1991, to become one of the largest flights network in Africa. Daallo Airlines is nominated as one of the show case success stories in Africa by Mr. Fick, David S, in his book of "Entrepreneurship in Africa: A study of Success".

The Brand New JUBBA Airways is now more user-friendly! You will find some welcome additional features and everything there is to make your visit to our site a pleasant experience. Promises are what we offer and will strive to deliver be it our flights to all Jubba destinations Dubai, Mogadishu, Djibouti or Jeddah or the excellent in-flight service on board.

The moment you step on board you will find the difference with our flight attendants welcoming you with a smile and making every possible effort to make your flight as happy as possible. There are also Special Offers which we will be offering our valued passengers from time to time. As the Umra and Hajj season are both fast approaching, be sure to book your tickets in advance.

NO AIDS PANDEMIC

By STEPHANIE NOLEN
Monday, July 25, 2005

XUDDUR, SOMALIA -- They have posters. They have training manuals. They have wipe-off markers. The only thing that the earnest band of AIDS educators in this Somali town don't have is, well, any people with AIDS.

At least none they know of.

The breadth of the AIDS pandemic has led to the idea in the West that the entire continent is ravaged by the disease. But Somalia -- isolated for 14 years since the civil war began and populated by devout Muslims -- has an infection rate of perhaps only 1.5 or 2 per cent of the adult population.

Its isolation has helped to keep the infection rate one of the lowest in Africa at a time when countries to the south are reporting infection rates of 40 per cent of the adult population

CURRENCY

SoSh (Somali shilling)

the SoSh's stability is reflected by the fact that in parts of neighboring Ethiopia the SoSh is more extensivly used than Ethiopia's own currency (:2003 :144) In fact prior to the last large monetary injection in Somalia in march 1999 and in 2000 the SoSh showed greater stability than the currencies of Ethiopia and Kenya from 1996 february to 1999 the SoSh depreciated against the US$ only 12.14% Between 1996-1999 the Kenyan shilling lost 32.55% against the US$ and the Ethiopian birr depreciated against the dollar 26.58% -Peter Leeson "better of stateless"

Berbera of somaliland and bossaso of Puntland ports

LIVE STOCK TRADE

Tharwa Net-Watch

From the chaos, it's a business boom in somalia

Import and export is a booming business. Traders are doing whatever they can to get hold of useful stuff that can sell abroad. Neither traditional nor non-traditional commodities are spared. Even markets for scrap metals that litter all over the place are to be found, especially old military gear and other devices wrecked during the civil war.

The import sector is the most interesting. Town dwellers all over Somalia cannot complain of a shortage of commodities as adroit traders have managed to fill stores with all sorts of goods. Sugar from Brazil, toys from Thailand, trinkets from India and even shotguns from Ukraine all compete for buyers in Mogadishu and elsewhere.

Trade between Somalia and other countries has multiplied. Some people even estimate that the trade volume is so huge that it could be considered one of the biggest in the Horn of Africa, outdoing more politically stable countries such as Kenya and Ethiopia.

Sceptics say Somali traders have become so profit driven as to compromise all values. Environmental and public health concerns have been raised, especially due to deforestation. The prevalence of strange diseases is assumed to be due to consumption of substandard, imported foods and drugs.

In the absence of law enforcing institutions to safeguard investor rights, joint ventures have been founded based on trust. It seems unimaginable that as many as 600 investors could pool their capital in order to initiate and run a single or a chain of businesses. It is not unusual to hear radio announcements calling shareholders for a meeting or news of a company management declaring payment of dividends. But beneficiaries tend to hide their huge income, fearing kidnappers.

Minarets of mosques generally greet visitors to Somalia's urban areas, but in these days the sight of communication transmitters of the shape of Paris's Eiffel Tower is becoming quite common. They are the product of intense competition among telecommunications and media companies who want to send and receive signals through the airwaves.

The recent opening of a Coca Cola plant in Mogadishu is an indication of how multinationals are beginning to expand their franchises to previously risky areas. It is a sign that more investors will follow suit, creating jobs and generating more locally made products.

http://www.tharwaproject.com/index.p...=1006&Itemid=0

SOMALILAND

Somaliland secures large German industry investments

Awdal News Network / afrol News,

The government of the breakaway republic Somaliland today signed a joint venture agreement with Germany's Sougueta Engineering AG on establishing a cement factory, coal powered electricity plant and a gypsum factory at the cost of US$ 250-300 million.

PUNTLAND

Business Attraction in Puntland, Somalia

Bossaso city has become a magnet for foreigners who want to invest in Africa. This week alone, there are about half a dozen business people representing Chinese and South Korean corporations in the city. These representatives and others who frequent Puntland want to invest in the region and expand their business to this part of the world. Interested people include wealthy business men from the Middle East.

Puntland (North Eastern Somalia) has not been touched by the country’s civil war and has remained stable after the fall of Somalia’s central government in 1991. It lies on the tip of East Africa and borders Indian Ocean and Red Sea.

SOUTH

After the islamic take over the people are experiencing a booming business with no roadblocks or militia's everything is going smooth

The stabilisation of Mogadishu after Islamist leaders ousted US-backed warlords has dealt a blow to pirates and given a boost to business in the Horn of Africa nation, a prominent Somali businessman said.

"We never had business like this before," Abdulkadir Nur, who manages the strategic El Maan port just north of the Somali capital, said as six ships from Dubai unloaded wood, sugar and cooking oil on the beach behind him.

A bustling, natural port with 10,000 workers and an annual discharge of some 300,000 tonnes of food, El Maan’s facilities are an object lesson in Somali ingenuity. A single, floating pipe offloads oil from a tanker just a few hundred metres offshore. Further down the beach, barges bulging with wood, sacks of sugar, and cooking oil containers ferry backwards and forwards from waiting ships.

FISHING INDUSTRY OF SOMALIA

Puntland International

Farah Awosman

Bosaso 944 2132+47 9062 0916 +47 2236 0923

puntlandinternational@hotmail.com

- We are a fishing company located on the coast of Somalia. We deal in all sorts of fish like Grouper, Red Snapper, King fish, shark fins, lobster, sea cucumber etc.

Ridwan Seafoods Ltd

Ahmed Ali

Kismayo 515 8118 - yareahmed@hotmail.com

http://www.ridwan.com

A company based in Kenya, somalia and also Dubai. We do handling exporting and local supply of frozen and live lobsters from lower Jubba especially Burgao, Kuda, Kamboni, Gobwain and Kismayo. We export 5000 frozen lobster to overseas each month by air.


Sanaag Fisheries Company

Ali Jama

Sanaag 754 6369 754 6541

sanaagfisheries@yahoo.com

Exporting mainly on hamour fillet, tuna and lobsters. We also have a legal permission from the Somaliland government so that any investor who is willing, a joint venture in this industry is welcome.

Siiste - Royal Seafood Inc.

Maxamed Said

Sanaag, Somaliland 7 213 456 7 514 654

Sevenseas_world@yahoo.com

We are one of the biggest export & import companies in the East African countries. Products include grouper, red snapper, king fish, tuna, shrimps, lobster. Also: dried fishes such as shark fins, shark bones, sea cucumbers, fish maws, dried shark meat and dried shrimps.

Somafish International Company

Abshir H. Osman

Mogadishu 1 635 272 1 635 272

abshrlee@emirates.net.ae

We are exporters/wholesalers of seafood. Our facility in Somalia is very modern, it includes a new 100mt freezer capacity. Our products include Snapper, Grouper, Kingfish, Tuna and in addition we would be able to supply other species that are available in the Indian Ocean.
4/11 SomFish Ltd Said Ali
Sadiq Shire Bosaaso +971 50 348 4160 +971 4 227 8611 saidarrale@hotmail.com

HILAAC REAL ESTATE AND CONSTRUCTIONS

Bosasso 1 | 91 houses - almost completed
Bosasso 2 | 80 houses - started september 30 2005
Gaalkacyo 1 | 300 houses - started september 30 2005
Laascaanood | 250 houses - planned to start in 2005
Gaalkacyo 2 | 300 houses - planned to start in 2006
Garowe | 150 houses - planned to start in 2006
Carmo | 100 houses - planned to start in 2006

http://www.hilaac.net/

DARYEEL CONSTRUCTION COMPANY

http://www.daryeel.com/aboutus.htm

Dayeel is locally owned Somaliland Constructions company employing around 400 staff across Somaliland and with completion of approximately 100 of constructions annually.

DCC is highly respected and well-established contracting company, with professional builders and surveyors supported by an experienced administrative team. We provide a complete range of construction and program management services in all in the segments of residential and business building market.

ALLA-AAMIN CONSTRUCTION COMPANY

http://www.alla-aamin.com/

LUCK STAR CONTRUCTION LTD COMPANY

http://www.lstarconstruction.com/home.html

UNIVERSAL & ENGINEERING CONSULTANT CO.

http://unieco.co.uk/default.asp

CHINA CIVIL ENGINEERING CORP

http://www.sbconline.net/news.php?page=newspage&id=6443

they build schools,houses,hospitals and roads

yeah my country and my people were in Anarchy but we made the best of it quite amazing since we were without a government all this time:thumbs_up

and lookie here Zimbabwean white farmers that were evicted by that nutcase Mugabe are accepting Somaliland's offer:)

:exhausted

[MTAFFI]

MTAFFI why have you quoted someone else's entire post in MY name? (Post 147)


BBL to this thread...

sorry bout that sis, i fixed it

[MTAFFI]

who keeps arming our Warlords??

who armed them 20 years ago, not the US and do you have proof they armed them recently?

again it's very obvious your ignorant of TPLF's dictatorship and track record of gross human rights violations on it's own citizens or else you wouldn't have called his regime a democratic one

I am not talking about what has been done to those people I am saying if you were a Christian "democratic" country would you want this as your neighbor, if you are going to quote me stay on subject, do not try to divert attention

http://www.ethrev.com/2006/may/001Ne..._of_Meles.html

dropped by the US

it's good your aware of this it shows progress:)

oh thats right the us made one attack on known terrorist who killed hundreds and now we are the bad ones right..:rollseyes we should never retaliate huh? then it is the evil west

it is sad to see you will probably never make progress:D

LOL indeed when the statistics used in the CIA world fact book is based on government info from 88/91 before it collapsed

Statistics on Somalia's GDP, growth, per capita income, and inflation should be viewed skeptically.-CIA

are you saying that isnt a reliable source, and are you saying that the economy is booming?? hahaha i would hate to think someone would be that ignorant

I have no idea since there is no government to check it

but let me come with an old post wich i'm force to use on this forum ad nauseam because of the fact that some members take their info from outdated sources

I see a lot about Somaliland and Puntland there which do have an established government (not internationally recognized) and these are not the people I am talking about, it is south of there. These are also not the people who were attacked recently and I dont think anyone worries about them as their neighbors

yeah my country and my people were in Anarchy but we made the best of it quite amazing since we were without a government all this time:thumbs_up

thumbs up indeed, they did better than Iraq that is for sure, the only real mistake was harboring known terrorist, had they not done that they may be in even better shape:thumbs_up

[MTAFFI]

oh and one more thing you brought up all this extra garbage, i dont care about somalias economy or people, in fact the only thing I have really been talking about is why the terrorist were there and why they got fired on. I dont claim to be a knowledge base for somalia and I never will be, however I do know a thing or two about world affairs. So how about ending this pointless talk unless you want to talk about why al-qaeda members were hiding with the ICU in the southern part of Somalia. Other than that I dont care and wont respond.:)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Too bad half of it is bogus :X

[MTAFFI]

:laugh: , i didnt want to say because like i said above, i dont have much knowledge of the economic affairs of Somalia...lol

Too bad half of it is bogus :X

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^LOL. i didnt see that one comin :X

[AHMED_GUREY]

who armed them 20 years ago, not the US and do you have proof they armed them recently?

:D the US after the Ogaden war was the biggest contributor of military and economic aid to Somalia they should have put pressure on Siyaad barre and his henchmen wich resemble today's Meles Zenawi's regime

I am not talking about what has been done to those people I am saying if you were a Christian "democratic" country

that statement is a classic oxymoron, let me get this straight..

i show you attrocities commited by the TPLF coming from a habashi source who's families were victims of his terror and you still have the nerve to call his regime a democratic one? evendo he stole the last election?

that's corrupt!

would you want this as your neighbor,

what do you mean with ''this''? listen i don't care what type of ill feelings you have towards my people but i appreciated it if you came out of the closet directly instead releasing your hidden feelings piece by piece

be direct!

if you are going to quote me stay on subject, do not try to divert attention

no red herrings here!

oh thats right the us made one attack on known terrorist who killed hundreds and now we are the bad ones right..:rollseyes we should never retaliate huh? then it is the evil west

ugh poor poor west people always blame them, the Iraqies, the Afghans, the Somalis, and maybe in future also the Persians why o why? poor poor west i bet these people blame the west because they have to much time on their hands :rollseyes it can't be because we drop bombs on their civilians because we want to catch 2/3 people or accuse them of having nukes no that can't be the reason it can't because we invade them with brute force or use proxies no noway:omg:

ugh poor poor west i feel your pain

Sarc/off

it is sad to see you will probably never make progress:D

life is good masha-allah but i appreciate your concerns:D

are you saying that isnt a reliable source, and are you saying that the economy is booming?? hahaha i would hate to think someone would be that ignorant

reread my previous long post Somalia made unbelieveable progress and many sectors outdo neighbouring countries that's what i was saying it's to bad you fail to process it!

I see a lot about Somaliland and Puntland there which do have an established government (not internationally recognized) and these are not the people I am talking about, it is south of there. These are also not the people who were attacked recently and I dont think anyone worries about them as their neighbors

my people are my people doesn't matter wich region they live in

the fact of the matter is when the Islamists took over many from the Diaspora and neighbouring countries returned to invest and it was going the right direction

thumbs up indeed, they did better than Iraq that is for sure,

i don't have time for your divide, praise and diss tactics but this is all have left to say Iraq would be doing a lot better today if the UN didn't strangle them for a decade and the US brutally invaded them on lies in 2003

the only real mistake was harboring known terrorist,

wich were never found :thumbs_up

[AHMED_GUREY]

Too bad half of it is bogus :X

elaborate..

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

i was referrin to MTAFFI's post.
Stuff comin from the ignorant media...

[AHMED_GUREY]

sorry sis my bad!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ its okie :D

[Nuseyba bintkab]

i just fell sorry for somalia only allah can help them now

[Snowflake]

MTAFFI;626737]You said anti-peace first, I was simply responding, read my other post to skillganon, I was meaning to say this is how Islam is being labeled by a lot of people, not that I think it is, I have Muslim friends and they are peace loving people

These are your words - right? I rest my case.

Islam is anti-peace because it continues to show itself killing itself and everyone around it to do what? The people at the market places, the people in the trade center, the people just driving down the road. They dont even have a target, it is just whoever is around is who gets it. At least when the US attacks they have a specific target

Btw does this look like the US hit their targets? They don't even know if the casualties are terrorists. Pffft!

Original post: A U.S. Air Force AC-130 gunship carried out the attack as part of an ongoing operation. The official reports casualties on the ground, but is not sure if they are suspected terrorists.

maybe but where would Islam be all of its people would have blown themselves up to get rid of everyone else

You misunderstand. If Islam preached wiping out all non-muslims, it would've happened long before bombs were made. Yes, before suicide bombers came into existence. So there' would've been no oppression that gave bith to suicide bombers in the first place.

right so they go and do that and they are heros and martyrs, what is the difference

Did I say that? You said they have no reason, so I gave you one.

terrorist wont hide in the US because they know the US would be all over them, to bad all countries dont have that policy huh? Otherwise none of this would be going on

Again, you misunderstood. By your country, I meant if terrorists were hiding in a non muslim country, would Bush attack it? I think we all know the answer to that - unless he wanted to start WW3.

If the US would be all over them, then Al-Qaeda would've been finished a long time ago - considering the US blames Al-Qaeda for 11 Sept attacks they're still at large.

thanks for putting words in my mouth, as I said I have Muslim friends so they arent all the same to me and many are very good people, however there is a high concentration of the bad one in the mid east

Oh yes! They aren't all the same but we're not talking about them. We are talking about Islam, which in your own words, you've already said is anti-peace. I wonder what your friends think about your views on their religion?

[MTAFFI]

Oh yes! They aren't all the same but we're not talking about them. We are talking about Islam, which in your own words, you've already said is anti-peace. I wonder what your friends think about your views on their religion?

they know how i feel about the people that share your views

[Snowflake]

they know how i feel about the people that share your views

Your third misunderstanding so far. They are not my views, but the reason for terrorism.

[MTAFFI]

Your third misunderstanding so far. They are not my views, but the reason for terrorism.

yeah everything is something else right? Or you just bend what you say to conform to the next statement. I do not wish to continue speaking to you in this post or any other. You have your views and I have mine, I make no reasons for terrorism and you do. You comments are arrogant and close minded. You can talk and put up your one liners all you want but you are ignorant to what is really going on, may God help you.

[MTAFFI]

what do you mean with ''this''? listen i don't care what type of ill feelings you have towards my people but i appreciated it if you came out of the closet directly instead releasing your hidden feelings piece by piece

be direct!

"this" as in anarchy and war, I have no ill feelings towards islam, only those who exploit it for their own ill intentions

ugh poor poor west people always blame them, the Iraqies, the Afghans, the Somalis, and maybe in future also the Persians why o why? poor poor west i bet these people blame the west because they have to much time on their hands :rollseyes it can't be because we drop bombs on their civilians because we want to catch 2/3 people or accuse them of having nukes no that can't be the reason it can't because we invade them with brute force or use proxies no noway:omg:

ugh poor poor west i feel your pain

RIGHT
you may know something about where you live but let see what you know of the others you speak of.
Afghans
oh poor afghans helped by the US to fight the Soviets, then go into civil war and then helped by the US to topple the Taliban regime. Tell me, how do you feel about the Taliban?

Iraqis
Helped by the US to fight Iran, ruled by a ruthless dictator, US captures dictator and free them from the oppression. Now the US is fighting against those who wish to rule in Saddams fashion, yet I would bet you say that we just want the oil. Try this, maybe we just dont want another Saddam.

and then my personal favorite POOR IRAN
these wonderful Persians who chant "death to america" but we shouldnt worry about them. A leader trying desperately to acquire nuclear weapons, but we shouldnt worry he has a real peaceful track record. A country that oppresses its people, no dont worry. Oh and a country that has called for another to be wiped off the map, no worries just take it with a grain of salt right?

Somalia

Yeah I actually do feel sorry for these people, however not for those who were harboring those terrorist. They knew the risk and they took it, it is their fault.

reread my previous long post Somalia made unbelieveable progress and many sectors outdo neighbouring countries that's what i was saying it's to bad you fail to process it!

as i said i really dont know much about Somalias economics, so good for them if the facts in your post are all true.

i don't have time for your divide, praise and diss tactics but this is all have left to say Iraq would be doing a lot better today if the UN didn't strangle them for a decade and the US brutally invaded them on lies in 2003

yeah they would be doing great under a murderer/dictator who killed everyone who didnt like him, they were doing wonderful.

wich were never found :thumbs_up

yeah that is a real thumbs up, I guess you are another peace lover huh?

[Skillganon]

Their is a programmed on "Islam Channel" called Ummah Talk which is talking about Somalia.

Started at 3:00pm

[Snowflake]

MTAFFI;627541]yeah everything is something else right? Or you just bend what you say to conform to the next statement.

For some who misunderstood what I said many a time, it is no surprise that my statements seem bent to you. In future learn to distinguish the difference of when a person is stating their own views or the views that lead to something you disagree with. I am not afraid of you to have to bend what I say. If I was pro-terrorism I said it loud and clear. Maybe it's your understanding of what someone means that is warped.


I do not wish to continue speaking to you in this post or any other.
Oh, good! The feeling's mutual then.

You have your views and I have mine, I make no reasons for terrorism and you do.

There you go again. For the fourth time. Like I said before if I was pro-terrorist I'd say it. Do you think I'm scared? I gave you the reasons for terrorism, not because I agree with killing innocent non muslims but because those are the reasons behind terrorist acts. How hard is that to understand?

You comments are arrogant and close minded. You can talk and put up your one liners all you want but you are ignorant to what is really going on, may God help you.

My comments reflect facts. Maybe you are not broad-minded enough acknowledge people will do anything out of desperation e.g terrorism. At least, I can acknowledge why they're doin it without condoning it. Furthermore, what hope have I that you will understand simple one-liners when you had difficulty understanding things I'd spelt out so clearly?!

Peace.

[AHMED_GUREY]

RIGHT
you may know something about where you live but let see what you know of the others you speak of.
Afghans
oh poor afghans helped by the US to fight the Soviets, then go into civil war and then helped by the US to topple the Taliban regime. Tell me, how do you feel about the Taliban?
Iraqis
Helped by the US to fight Iran, ruled by a ruthless dictator, US captures dictator and free them from the oppression. Now the US is fighting against those who wish to rule in Saddams fashion, yet I would bet you say that we just want the oil. Try this, maybe we just dont want another Saddam.

you paint the picture of the US being anti-Dictatorships why aren't they freeing the Habashi people from oppression? why are they supporting warlords that are oppressing the Somali people? you might not like the governing style of the Taliban or Saddam but in reality there no different from Meles Zenawi and his onslaught on the Aunuks or Abdullahi Yusuf's warlord history.

and then my personal favorite POOR IRAN
these wonderful Persians who chant "death to america" but we shouldnt worry about them. A leader trying desperately to acquire nuclear weapons, but we shouldnt worry he has a real peaceful track record. A country that oppresses its people, no dont worry. Oh and a country that has called for another to be wiped off the map, no worries just take it with a grain of salt right?

Last time i checked Kim was doing actual nuke tests i think the West has bigger things to worry about than Iran

Somalia

Yeah I actually do feel sorry for these people, however not for those who were harboring those terrorist. They knew the risk and they took it, it is their fault.

they are a only fraction of the wider population that got bombed or gunned down by that crazy airplane you could be socializing with terrorists from any background without knowing it wether your going to the gym or going to college or work you simply can't tell, i don't think these farmers that were killed really paid attention to these characters that were suposibly there

yeah they would be doing great under a murderer/dictator who killed everyone who didnt like him, they were doing wonderful.

1 million died from the UN sanctions and from Jan 06 to Dec 06 alone 34/36 000 died from violence

yeah that is a real thumbs up, I guess you are another peace lover huh?

70 dead civilians to apprehend 2 guys(who were never catched) is a real thumbs up indeed

[MTAFFI]

For some who misunderstood what I said many a time, it is no surprise that my statements seem bent to you. In future learn to distinguish the difference of when a person is stating their own views or the views that lead to something you disagree with. I am not afraid of you to have to bend what I say. If I was pro-terrorism I said it loud and clear. Maybe it's your understanding of what someone means that is warped.


I do not wish to continue speaking to you in this post or any other.
Oh, good! The feeling's mutual then.



There you go again. For the fourth time. Like I said before if I was pro-terrorist I'd say it. Do you think I'm scared? I gave you the reasons for terrorism, not because I agree with killing innocent non muslims but because those are the reasons behind terrorist acts. How hard is that to understand?


My comments reflect facts. Maybe you are not broad-minded enough acknowledge people will do anything out of desperation e.g terrorism. At least, I can acknowledge why they're doin it without condoning it. Furthermore, what hope have I that you will understand simple one-liners when you had difficulty understanding things I'd spelt out so clearly?!

Peace.

sure whatever you say!:D I dont understand anything and you understand everything. If only I could be as educated as yourself to understand why anyone would think it is ok to commit these atrocities! To be honest I would rather not understand their logic being as flawed and corrupted as it is.

ps read your post a #132, you are actually the one who brought up Islam being anti peace, I just forgot to point this out earlier. I simply gave you a reason some may view it that way. Also let me point out in that post, you admitted that the suicide bombers kill innocent people. These are the people that you can understand? and not directly stick up for but make excuses for their behavior? You may not come out and say that you agree with their behavior but you sure do project it that way

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

She said the word anti peace. She didnt say Islam was! She said so many people think that way, she wasnt referring to herself. There's a difference in bringing it up and really meaning it! Which u did by the way.

[MTAFFI]

She said the word anti peace. She didnt say Islam was! She said so many people think that way, she wasnt referring to herself. There's a difference in bringing it up and really meaning it! Which u did by the way.

well tayyaba I am glad you can tell me what i really meant! Although you must not have read further down in the post where I apologized and explained that was not what I meant. Please also notice that I never said that she said Islam was anti peace only that she used the term first, which is why it was on my post.

[MTAFFI]

you paint the picture of the US being anti-Dictatorships why aren't they freeing the Habashi people from oppression? why are they supporting warlords that are oppressing the Somali people? you might not like the governing style of the Taliban or Saddam but in reality there no different from Meles Zenawi and his onslaught on the Aunuks or Abdullahi Yusuf's warlord history.

Then he should be stopped as well, but then again if the US were to help we would probably be told we are invading a country, didnt belong there and be attacked by its people once that ruthless man was taken down.

Last time i checked Kim was doing actual nuke tests i think the West has bigger things to worry about than Iran

are you suggesting the US doesnt have its eye on Kim? Last I checked his country was in shambles because of the economic sanctions the US implemented. So I guess since they already have one madman to watch out for they should allow the other to get into that position so the US and the rest of the world have to watch out from them too??

they are a only fraction of the wider population that got bombed or gunned down by that crazy airplane you could be socializing with terrorists from any background without knowing it wether your going to the gym or going to college or work you simply can't tell, i don't think these farmers that were killed really paid attention to these characters that were suposibly there

who really knows if they did or not? I feel bad for them but someone knew who these guys were and they allowed them in their country. They put their own people in danger

1 million died from the UN sanctions and from Jan 06 to Dec 06 alone 34/36 000 died from violence

what sanctions? please provide a source I am not sure what country or sanctions you are talking about

70 dead civilians to apprehend 2 guys(who were never catched) is a real thumbs up indeed

I am not sure if you are joking or what but I was being sarcastic as I hope you are

[MTAFFI]

you paint the picture of the US being anti-Dictatorships why aren't they freeing the Habashi people from oppression? why are they supporting warlords that are oppressing the Somali people? you might not like the governing style of the Taliban or Saddam but in reality there no different from Meles Zenawi and his onslaught on the Aunuks or Abdullahi Yusuf's warlord history.

I did some research on Meles Zenawi and I found that he isnt the man you make him out to be. From what I understand he saved the Ethiopians from the Derg ruler Colonel Lieutenant Mengistu Hailemariam, who was not only communist but committed genocide against his own people. Both the Arab world and the West helped Zenawi come to power, and while he may not be perfect because of the killing he allowed of the Aunuks, you must remember what shape the country was in before he came to power, he may just be trying to maintain peace.

here is a list of awards he has recieved since in office

Prime Minister Meles Zenawi, despite running a 3rd world country, has received various international awards for setting up a good foundation for the development of Ethiopia.

The World Peace Prize for PM Meles Zenawi's contributions for global peace and his effort to stabilize the Horn of Africa through cooperation with Inter-Governmental Authority for Development(IGAD).[44]

Tabor 100, an African American entrepreneur’s organization, honored PM. Meles Zenawi for his big contribution toward economic and social transformation in Africa with its prestigious Crystal Eagle International Leadership Award in April 2005.[45]

Tabor 100, a U.S.-based nongovernmental organization, calling Meles Zenawi “International leader of the year 2005”, also honored the efforts of the Ethiopian government in general for war on poverty and backwardness.[46]

PM Meles Zenawi was also awarded the “Good Governance Award of the Global coalition for Africa” in respect for leading Ethiopia in a democratic path during the challenging period of transition.[47]

PM Meles Zenawi received the 2005 Yara Prize for Green Revolution for initiating a good foundation for economic progress in Ethiopia, particularly on the agricultural sector for the poor country that has doubled its food production. During the award ceremony held in the Norwegian capital of Oslo on September 3, the director of the UN project for Africa said, "With our support, Ethiopia can lift itself from poverty and hunger. Under Prime Minister Meles the country has created the grass roots structure to enable this to happen.” This award was presented by Yara International, a major Norwegian fertilizer producer that was awarded important contracts in Ethiopia shortly thereafter. The award was considered tantamount to corruption in the Norwegian press, and produced widespread criticism and condemnations[48], including a refusal by Norwegian government officials to participate in the award ceremony[49]. Yara's CEO, Thorleif Enger, later admitted that the Yara prize "is no environment [...] nor human-rights prize, but an agriculture prize"[50].

[AHMED_GUREY]

I did some research on Meles Zenawi and I found that he isnt the man you make him out to be.

:D Mugabe won the international Civil Courage Prize what are you saying?? we should continue to praise his rule despite him displacing a million of his own citizens?

From what I understand he saved the Ethiopians from the Derg ruler Colonel Lieutenant Mengistu Hailemariam, who was not only communist but committed genocide against his own people. Both the Arab world and the West helped Zenawi come to power

looooool and which passport was he using to get support from the International community? who provided him with an office and all expense account? Mengistu was enemy nr 1 and hundreds of thousand of innocent habashi civilians took shelter in Somalia if it wasn't for the critical support we gave Ethiopia, Mengistu would continue with his red terror both the West(excluding the US), the African Union and the Arab League ignored the Eritrean people and Ethiopian peoples plight for a long long time

and while he may not be perfect because of the killing he allowed of the Aunuks, you must remember what shape the country was in before he came to power, he may just be trying to maintain peace.

Iraq was also in a better state under Saddam than it's today

Meles Zenawi started an unjustified war on Eritrea leaving 80 000 people death on both sides and now he's massacring his own citizens plus collaborating with our Warlord President he's a nutcase

[MTAFFI]

looooool and which passport was he using to get support from the International community? who provided him with an office and all expense account? Mengistu was enemy nr 1 and hundreds of thousand of innocent habashi civilians took shelter in Somalia if it wasn't for the critical support we gave Ethiopia, Mengistu would continue with his red terror both the West(excluding the US), the African Union and the Arab League ignored the Eritrean people and Ethiopian peoples plight for a long long time

I am not saying Somalia didnt help I am saying they are better off now than they were under Mengistu's rule. Do you not agree? It seems all of your replys are so negative why is that? The world is not perfect, bad things happen, but this guy is doing the best he can, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean everyone else doesnt either. Try to look on the brighter side of things sometime, it might make you a happier person.

[AHMED_GUREY]

I am not saying Somalia didnt help I am saying they are better off now than they were under Mengistu's rule. Do you not agree?

Mengistu was nicknamed the butcher of Addis Ababa today Meles zenawi has been dubbed as the ''Other butcher of Addis Ababa that says alot about his rule if you look at Mengistu's trackrecord

It seems all of your replys are so negative why is that?

the World affairs section is the synonym of negativity

didn't you know? it's makes people sad and ill:cry: because of the bad news

The world is not perfect, bad things happen, but this guy is doing the best he can, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean everyone else doesnt either.

there will always be people that disagree on some sort of issue's out there but one should not depict one Dictator as the evil mad man because he was not so close to the west and depict another Dictator as a goodie goodie character because he was close to the west that's not fair and not right

Try to look on the brighter side of things sometime, it might make you a happier person.

I'm a happy person but i might be perceived as a negative one when i project my stand on the forum simply because the issue's we are discussing about are far away from the things that fall under the happiness and joy category :)

[MTAFFI]

Mengistu was nicknamed the butcher of Addis Ababa today Meles zenawi has been dubbed as the ''Other butcher of Addis Ababa that says alot about his rule if you look at Mengistu's trackrecord

this is interesting, although I am not sure of the credibility of the author

the World affairs section is the synonym of negativity

didn't you know? it's makes people sad and ill:cry: because of the bad news

I guess it is how you look at things

there will always be people that disagree on some sort of issue's out there but one should not depict one Dictator as the evil mad man because he was not so close to the west and depict another Dictator as a goodie goodie character because he was close to the west that's not fair and not right

i am not trying to depict him as anything, i prefaced my post with "I have been doing research" and i will continue to do so, so that i may get my facts straight. If he is then he is and i will not argue it if he is, but I will research and find the truth no matter if it makes the west look bad or not, i always look for two sides to a story and then go with whatever seems to be the truth to me. I can see though by reading your post that you are kind of one sided, you obviously dislike the west and no matter what i would be willing to bet you would find something wrong with even the good things that come from the west.

I'm a happy person but i might be perceived as a negative one when i project my stand on the forum simply because the issue's we are discussing about are far away from the things that fall under the happiness and joy category :)

true

[AHMED_GUREY]

this is interesting, although I am not sure of the credibility of the author

Channel4: The hideous personality behind the name "Meles Zenawi"

i am not trying to depict him as anything, i prefaced my post with "I have been doing research" and i will continue to do so, so that i may get my facts straight. If he is then he is and i will not argue it if he is, but I will research and find the truth no matter if it makes the west look bad or not, i always look for two sides to a story and then go with whatever seems to be the truth to me.

that's good!

I can see though by reading your post that you are kind of one sided, you obviously dislike the west

really?

and no matter what i would be willing to bet you would find something wrong with even the good things that come from the west.

I don't dislike the ordinary citizen living in the West i hate the current Bush&Blair administrations and i have the right to do so!

[Akil]

I am not gonna get to involved n this because there is a lot of heavy words being thrown around but the conflict as a whole I think America should stay away from.

If they had the exact location of suspected terrorists they should have sent in direct action Special Forces to take them out on the ground. I don’t like the use of gunships, they are too inaccurate and allow for to much “collateral damage”

Also believing in al jezeera, is almost as stupid as be believing in fox news.

Lastly remember that the actions of the US government don’t necessarily reflect on the citizens of America or even the soldiers who carry them out. We’re just another brick in the wall.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^true.

[Snowflake]

=MTAFFI;627645]sure whatever you say!:D I dont understand anything and you understand everything. If only I could be as educated as yourself to understand why anyone would think it is ok to commit these atrocities! To be honest I would rather not understand their logic being as flawed and corrupted as it is.

:rollseyes to understand why someone does something doesn't mean that one necessarily agrees with it. Psychologists can understand why people commit heinous crimes but does that mean they condone it? No, it just means that they know the workings of these people's minds. And that's what I am saying when I say I understand their reason. Which is irrational to us, but to them its justification stems from desperation. There is a lot of difference between understanding someone's actions and actually agreeing with them. I think we are looking at the word 'understand in different context.

ps read your post a #132, you are actually the one who brought up Islam being anti peace, I just forgot to point this out earlier. I simply gave you a reason some may view it that way.

Yes, I did bring up the word 'anti-peace' first. But that was because you said this....

wow.. that sounds like the peace Islam talks about so often ;D

Now to me that sounds like sarcasm insinuating that Islam is anti-peace. Note you mentioned Islam and not 'some people' as you now are saying. But if that isn't what you meant then I accept your clarification.

Also let me point out in that post, you admitted that the suicide bombers kill innocent people. These are the people that you can understand? and not directly stick up for but make excuses for their behavior? You may not come out and say that you agree with their behavior but you sure do project it that way

Of course I admit suicide bombers kill innocent people. It's a fact. The fact that I use the word 'innocent' implies that these people are wrongly killed. Why would I call them innocent if I thought they deserved to be killed? :?
If I strongly believed in something I wouldn't mince my words but come right out with it. I've already explained in which context I used the word 'understand'.

peace.

[Skillganon]

I am not gonna get to involved n this because there is a lot of heavy words being thrown around but the conflict as a whole I think America should stay away from.

I think it is to late, the current American goverment.

If they had the exact location of suspected terrorists they should have sent in direct action Special Forces to take them out on the ground. I don’t like the use of gunships, they are too inaccurate and allow for to much “collateral damage”

Well I don't have the location of "suspected" terrorist but the location of confirmed terrorist and that is in washington DC, you can guess the members.

Lastly remember that the actions of the US government don’t necessarily reflect on the citizens of America or even the soldiers who carry them out. We’re just another brick in the wall.

Duely noted and I think members of this forum to take note of that, but also one should take note that when america props up in discussions it is because of the goverment and not neccessarily the american people in general.

[muslima06]

asalamu aleykum brothers and sister in islam,
there is too many sad things going on over the muslim world so may allah have mecry on us. if we really are good muslims our countries wouldn't have been destroyed. when a community has taqwa, allah bestows his favors upon them and when they go astray allah punishes them. so lets evaluate ourselves where we stand, the change can only came within us.may Allah forgive us all and may peace prevail on earth.
''verily with every dificutly, there is a releive''(quran)
wasalmu aleykum,
ur sis in islam,

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ i agree with u sis.

[MTAFFI]

Channel4: The hideous personality behind the name "Meles Zenawi"

sad

[
really?

not necessarily hate, and not necessarily the all the people but definitely the government. The US does do good things throughout the world, however I can understand your dislike of the administration considering the region you live in.

[
I don't dislike the ordinary citizen living in the West i hate the current Bush&Blair administrations and i have the right to do so!

you sure do!

[MTAFFI]

:rollseyes to understand why someone does something doesn't mean that one necessarily agrees with it. Psychologists can understand why people commit heinous crimes but does that mean they condone it? No, it just means that they know the workings of these people's minds. And that's what I am saying when I say I understand their reason. Which is irrational to us, but to them its justification stems from desperation. There is a lot of difference between understanding someone's actions and actually agreeing with them. I think we are looking at the word 'understand in different context.

are you a psychologist? They go to school for 6 to 8 years to do what they do, or to understand people and their actions, it would be awfully pompous of you to assume you could do the same without that degree

:
Yes, I did bring up the word 'anti-peace' first. But that was because you said this....

Now to me that sounds like sarcasm insinuating that Islam is anti-peace. Note you mentioned Islam and not 'some people' as you now are saying. But if that isn't what you meant then I accept your clarification.

I was referring to your comment about death to Bush. My comment was filled with sarcasm, however it was sarcasm towards you being a Muslim, or a person of Islam, and at the same time chanting death to another person. Not all Muslims do that, just some and usually the ones who can understand why suicide bombers do what they do.

Sis I also want you to know that it is not my intention to frustrate, prove you wrong, argue or do anything negative to you, it is just that I have seen a lot of people die from these bombs some of which were friends, who had nothing to do with the things that are going on today, so I get very touchy about it. I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else reading these posts.

[Akil]

just some and usually the ones who can understand why suicide bombers do what they do

Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death

[MTAFFI]

Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death ----> Loss ----> Anger ----> Hate ----> Violence ----> Death

what a sick cycle

what if the world worked like this

Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love


To bad huh?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

oh come on, what next? suspects in iran/saudi what other muslim countries are lefT?

i really have high hopes for somalia...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

what a sick cycle

what if the world worked like this

Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love


To bad huh?

lol thats nice :), but punishment should be served for justice :D so we cant just forget everything, although it would have been nice to :)

[Akil]

At some point we might have to accept that justice in unattainable. Maybe it doesn’t really exist. Maybe at some point we should decide to leave punishment to God and seek peace in this world.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

At some point we might have to accept that justice in unattainable. Maybe it doesn’t really exist. Maybe at some point we should decide to leave punishment to God and seek peace in this world.

thats what ghandi tried and he got shot :uuh:

[MTAFFI]

thats what ghandi tried and he got shot :uuh:

so what would be justice to you?

[Snowflake]

=MTAFFI;628574]are you a psychologist? They go to school for 6 to 8 years to do what they do, or to understand people and their actions, it would be awfully pompous of you to assume you could do the same without that degree

I don't think it's being pompous to state that one has an understanding of someone's emotional state. Have you never been in the position where you've understood why someone acted how they did, even though you disagreed with it? Psychologists only study people's minds in depth, that does not mean that the rest of us are unable to comprehend the emotional state of others.

I was referring to your comment about death to Bush. My comment was filled with sarcasm, however it was sarcasm towards you being a Muslim, or a person of Islam, and at the same time chanting death to another person. Not all Muslims do that, just some and usually the ones who can understand why suicide bombers do what they do.

Actually, wanting Bush dead has got nothing to do with understanding suicide bombers. A lot of muslims disagree with terrorism aimed at innocent people but still want Bush to be wiped off the face of the earth - unless he stops killing muslims that is. And I openly admit that I want Bush to stop or die. If I didn't, I'd be in the same class as those who supported Hitler's atrocities against the Jews. And what kind of person would I be if I remained unaffected by the death's of innocent muslims???

Sis I also want you to know that it is not my intention to frustrate, prove you wrong, argue or do anything negative to you, it is just that I have seen a lot of people die from these bombs some of which were friends, who had nothing to do with the things that are going on today, so I get very touchy about it. I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else reading these posts.

I am sorry to hear of the loss of your friends and I was also truly saddened by the deaths of those who had nothing to do with harming muslims. Why would I wish harm to them and the like? Never! If you have muslim friends, I too have non muslims ones-who are very dear to me.

But Bush is not a friend, nor innocent. He is 'The Enemy' for whom my heart holds no compassion for as long as he continues to be behind the loss of muslim life. If Bush was to attack Britain, I'd still chant death to him, not as a muslim but as a briton in support of my country.

As far as I know suicide bombing doesn't conform to the islamic strategy of Jihad. Therefore, I don't condone it. Even if it were valid, I wouldn't think of it as impressive retaliation. What is the point of killing one-self, when you can live to kill thousands more!? No, instead I wish they'd train as snipers and eliminate the enemy by vindictive retribution. :thumbs_up

I would also like to offer my apologies, If anything I said offended you.

peace

[muslima06]

what a sick cycle

what if the world worked like this

Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love --->Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love ---> Forgive ---> Forget ---> Tolerence ---> Embrace ---> Love


To bad huh?

it would have been nice.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

so what would be justice to you?

i know you expect this but to follow the quran in its entirety would be justice, but pure justice isnt always found here, then we wait for the judgement of our lord :) with patience

[budda]

I really do not think this was an attack on the Somali people... If Bush had the intention of killing people at random he would not be using surgical strikes. You may not want to believe the news from fox but is the Somali propaganda really any better? According to them every bullet ever fired hit a woman/child/hospital. It is really no different than the propaganda released by Hanoi Jane in Vietnam or the Chinese propaganda prior to the invasion of Tibet. I would really take any report from that area of the world with a grain of salt unless it is from Al Jazeera or some other reputable source.