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iqbal_soofi
01-11-2007, 01:38 AM
I don't know much about other Muslim countries but in Pakistan the trend of teaching religious fundamentals and attequetes to children is growing fast these days. Parents don't bother about feeding their children with money earned through unfair means, but they're very concerned about teaching religious fundamentals to their children. They believe that making money is different and religious fundamentals are different.

:D
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Rabiyal
01-11-2007, 07:05 AM
I completely agree. And that's the reason I plan to move back to Pakistan for my kids education!!! I am not saying that it's a perfect place, now in colleges they also celebrate valentines...but at the same time those same kids know how to pray five times a day, have finished Quraan more than twice, have memorized Ayaats, and don't waste time in stupid stuff like Job, or even Money. We as Pakistani believe He giveth and He taketh so, we leave everything to Allah and enjoy being muslims and Living life that satisfies our souls and Allhumdulilah our After Life also, InshAllah....

Iqbal Nice topic.........but what do you believe??? is it a good way to go?
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Skillganon
01-11-2007, 07:24 AM
Sis, your children do need jobs and money, only to spend in the way of Allah(s.w.t)
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north_malaysian
01-11-2007, 07:30 AM
In Malaysia, we're taught (by the teachers) to be exam-oriented. We must excel in all kind of exams to obtain good places in the universities.

Nowadays, even 3-year-old kids are sent to the kindergartens... and they have homeworks and exams too...
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iqbal_soofi
01-11-2007, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
Sis, your children do need jobs and money, only to spend in the way of Allah(s.w.t)

I agree 100%.

Everyone should teach their children how to make honest money. Unfortunately, some parents do all kinds of things to make money for their children. They don't want their children to learn the honest ways of making money. They want them to learn only the fundamentals of Islam. They forget that their prayers wouldn't be accepted if they make money through any kind of unfair means. Some parents go to western countries to make honest money for their children but talk bad about the systems of those countries and don't want their children to live in those systems. I don't know who they want to cheat with.
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Dawud_uk
01-11-2007, 05:14 PM
assalaamu alaykum,

i listened to a biyan before jummah salaat last Friday by imam of Masjid Ali in leicester, imam Sa'eed, who is the brother of Sheikh Riadul Haqq,

he was talking of the relationship between the words abd and ibadah, both coming from the same root meaning and how if we understand this relationship we would not take ibadah as meaning only doing your prayers and so on, the fundementals of islam.

this is because it is ibadah because we are in a state of slavehood to Allah, we are the slaves of Allah, so knowing our status we therefore perform ibadah in this state of mind knowing our place as slaves and Allah as our master and creator.

so five pillars are not enough unless it is in a complete state of submission to Allah. because if someone does salaat, looking at it like a duty not because he is in a complete state of slavehood and submission to Allah then it might not be accepted of him or be accepted fully.

so we should remember this and remember our place below the creator and then remember all he has done for us, and then carry out our duties in this state of mind and then we will be good slaves of Allah and insha'allah our deeds will be accepted.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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Umar001
01-11-2007, 05:38 PM
This thread is so contradictory, bro Iqbal, you say,

Parents don't bother about feeding their children with money earned through unfair means, but they're very concerned about teaching religious fundamentals to their children. They believe that making money is different and religious fundamentals are different.

If parents are teaching religious fundamentals and ettiquettes then this would include not doing haram things. Maybe you mean that they teach a crooked version of what they think Islam is??

You again said,


They don't want their children to learn the honest ways of making money. They want them to learn only the fundamentals of Islam.

Your again stating things as if making an honest bunch of money is a different thing not to dowith fundamentals of Islam. If the parents are teaching kids the fundamentals of Islam then that would include making an honest living.

Muslims are becoming abit too much fixated with money, I understand the need of making sure that money is made in a halal way, I could not agree more, but too many people think that Muslims need degrees and become doctors, accountants and so forth.
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iqbal_soofi
01-11-2007, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
This thread is so contradictory, bro Iqbal, you say,

Parents don't bother about feeding their children with money earned through unfair means, but they're very concerned about teaching religious fundamentals to their children. They believe that making money is different and religious fundamentals are different.

If parents are teaching religious fundamentals and ettiquettes then this would include not doing haram things. Maybe you mean that they teach a crooked version of what they think Islam is??

You again said,


They don't want their children to learn the honest ways of making money. They want them to learn only the fundamentals of Islam.

Your again stating things as if making an honest bunch of money is a different thing not to dowith fundamentals of Islam. If the parents are teaching kids the fundamentals of Islam then that would include making an honest living.

Muslims are becoming abit too much fixated with money, I understand the need of making sure that money is made in a halal way, I could not agree more, but too many people think that Muslims need degrees and become doctors, accountants and so forth.
Maybe you didn't try to understand my point right. You confused the teachings of Islam with the fundamentals or the rituals. Fundamentals or the the rituals are just one part. Making an honest money is the other part. Both are important. My point is that majority of Muslim parents these days neglect the more important part which is making the honest earnings. They only emphasize on the other part.
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Rabiyal
01-12-2007, 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
Sis, your children do need jobs and money, only to spend in the way of Allah(s.w.t)
I got MashaAllah 3 girls, and women's job is at home. hence my comment above.
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Umar001
01-12-2007, 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Maybe you didn't try to understand my point right.
Assalamu Aleykum Bro, I did try, I came on and I didnt understand I left it then I still didnt get it so I commented from what I did get. Sorry about the confusion.


Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
You confused the teachings of Islam with the fundamentals or the rituals. Fundamentals or the the rituals are just one part. Making an honest money is the other part. Both are important. My point is that majority of Muslim parents these days neglect the more important part which is making the honest earnings. They only emphasize on the other part.

So the fundamentals are things like: believing in Allah and that Allah is one, Rituals are like: Prayers, Fasting and so forth.

Other stuff is like not eating haram and sleeping around, not cheating people and so forth.

Now, which is more important?? I think it is wrong to only teach our kids part of Islam, but if the choice came down to it, between having a kid who Believes in Allah and does not make shirk, the fundamentals, and prays, i.e. ritual, but he does not do the 'other' stuff, and maybe he steals and so forth.
And a child who, does not believe in Allah nor prays but earns a good living through Halal means. I would pick the first. So for your saying:


My point is that majority of Muslim parents these days neglect the more important part which is making the honest earnings.


Then I have to disagree, the 'fundamentals' and rituals are more important in m y view. If I had it my way they should be taught Islam properly, as both me and you agree :)
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iqbal_soofi
01-12-2007, 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
[B]

My point is that majority of Muslim parents these days neglect the more important part which is making the honest earnings.


Then I have to disagree, the 'fundamentals' and rituals are more important in m y view. If I had it my way they should be taught Islam properly, as both me and you agree :)
Fundamentals or prayers are not accepted by Allah when done by people who make dishonest earnings. There's a Hadith that your namaz will not be accepted if one out of nine yards of the cloth you're wearing is from haram income. Therefore, honesty comes first, then the rituals.
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Dawud_uk
01-12-2007, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Fundamentals or prayers are not accepted by Allah when done by people who make dishonest earnings. There's a Hadith that your namaz will not be accepted if one out of nine yards of the cloth you're wearing is from haram income. Therefore, honesty comes first, then the rituals.
assalaamu alaykum,

this is not so, a person with a haram income may be a fasiq, but a person who doesnt pray has a general ruling in islam against him / her that they are a kaffir.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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iqbal_soofi
01-12-2007, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

this is not so, a person with a haram income may be a fasiq, but a person who doesnt pray has a general ruling in islam against him / her that they are a kaffir.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
So you justify the dishonest people who pray but make money by cheating. They're already growing very fast in our society only because of this kind of justifications.
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Dawud_uk
01-12-2007, 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
So you justify the dishonest people who pray but make money by cheating. They're already growing very fast in our society only because of this kind of justifications.
not at all,

i am just saying a person who prays and sins such as having a haram income is better than a person who doesnt pray but doesnt commit any other sins.

wa alaykumus salaam,
Abu Abdullah
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^..sTr!vEr..^
01-12-2007, 05:48 PM
Assalamualaikum
lol...well, not every house is lyk this...n paki seems to be very goody-goody but its not..and loads n loads of muslim parents dun care a bit abt teaching this kinda stuff..
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iqbal_soofi
01-12-2007, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by ^..sTr!vEr..^
Assalamualaikum
lol...well, not every house is lyk this...n paki seems to be very goody-goody but its not..and loads n loads of muslim parents dun care a bit abt teaching this kinda stuff..
Please don't use "paki" for Pakistanis. "Paki" is a dragatory term which is used to humiliate someone. You can use "Pak" for a Pakistani if you wish to use some abbreviation. Thank you.
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snakelegs
01-12-2007, 09:47 PM
are you trying to say that you think parents are emphasizing religious studies and neglecting to at the same time provide their kids with the tools necessary to make a living? i am under the impression that this is indeed sometimes the case in countries like pakistan. but it doesn't have to be. why not give your children the best religious tools you possibly can as well as the best technical/educational tools to live in the modern world? i see no basic incompatibility here.
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