Is Islam a violent religion?

[MTAFFI]

Do you view Islam as a violent religion? Why or why not

[brenton]

I don't, but I am biased against violence and biased toward Islam--I choose to see Islam in the best light possible. So I could be wrong, and I am still working this out, so I appreciate the thread.
I am troubled by a couple events in the Prophet's life, but I don't see Islam as essentially violent.

[naz87]

same here. there are some things about the prophet that bothered me but everything else is good.

[axess1907]

NO! ISLAM IS NOT A VIOLENT RELIGION! THERE ARE SOME TERRORSITS, because of this silly people the people call our religion a violent religioN!

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[Jayda]

hola MTAFFI,

maybe it would be polite to ask the moderators about whether the muslims would be comfortable with this question before you post it...

Dios te bendiga

[Goku]

Islam is a religion of peace, love and brotherhood that promotes justice and righteousness and condemns oppression. See this video for a summary of Islam and Islamic values:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxIk2Wta58&eurl=

[axess1907]

Islam is a religion of peace, love and brotherhood that promotes justice and righteousness and condemns oppression. See this video for a summary of Islam and Islamic values:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxIk2Wta58&eurl=

I totally agree with you. people who say that the islam is a religion full of violence dont know anything of islam!

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Islaam is a religion of justice. :)

[FBI]

:sl:

Islam is A Religion of Peace and Militancy. We're Peaceful with those who are peaceful with us.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Islam is a religion of a lifetime Masha'Allah :)

[MTAFFI]

hola MTAFFI,

maybe it would be polite to ask the moderators about whether the muslims would be comfortable with this question before you post it...

Dios te bendiga

They will take it down if it is inappropriate, and if anyone thinks it is inappropriate I encourage you to request it be taken down. I just wanted to get the views of people. There are many threads that may not be confortable to some Christians on this site.

[MTAFFI]

:sl:

Islam is A Religion of Peace and Militancy. We're Peaceful with those who are peaceful with us.

interesting, so you are saying that in your opinion in certain cases your religion does condone violence?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Doesn't offend me. Like my view even counts :X lol

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Well if someone attacks you, are u jus gunna sit there? I kinda doubt that. I think thats what he means.

[- Qatada -]

Your right, if this thread leads to arguments - then we'll simply have to close it. :)

[MTAFFI]

Your right, if this thread leads to arguments - then we'll simply have to close it. :)

please do, that was not my intention at all when I started this one

[- Qatada -]

lol thread opened.



Peace.

[FBI]

interesting, so you are saying that in your opinion in certain cases your religion does condone violence?

Yes

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

Yes

What he means is yes in times of war; Islam is not a pacifistic religion. We're taught to defend ourselves, yes. But, violence should only be used as a last resort once all other options have been used. Peaceful resolutions are the best way of difusing most situations, but if your opponent draws his blade first, you might have to take up arms yourself. It's common sense really and basically what teachers and parents tell all their children: fighting is wrong, if someone hurts you tell the teacher. Though, this changes to "stand up for yourself" usually at the age of 10 or so, but I'm sure you can see the point.

I, myself, see Islam as a way of life as opposed to a social club etc.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Do you view Islam as a violent religion? Why or why not

ye, hands get chopped off, people get stoned. It gets violent but its not barbaric nor oppresive but completely just. You steal something and expect to get away scot free? you sleep with the wife of your neighbour thus changing the life of a whole family most probably completely destroying it and expect to get away?

LAA !!!!! islam is violent due to the meaning of violence but its most certainly not oppressive.... nor unjust !


may Allaah forgive me if im mistaken, correction will be appreciated wallah

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

i think u mean violence in certain situations in Islam is just, am i right? :X

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i think u mean violence in certain situations in Islam is just, am i right? :X

yes mashaAllaah

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

lol one line summary of ur essay ;D

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol one line summary of ur essay ;D

people will not consider violence just in any case therefore examples were given *puts in all force to resist namecalling*

bigheaded fish :X

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

who me?? LOL! :X
yea ur right lol.

[Snowflake]

Do you view Islam as a violent religion? Why or why not

No. The only time violence is desirable is in the face of oppression and in that case it is self-defence. For any other reason violence is condemmed by Allah as revealed in the Noble Quran.

"And seek not occasions for mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief" (28:77)

Even in the face of oppression muslims are taught not to transgress beyond their limits.

"If any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong themselves as well as others" (2:229)


As a community as well as an individual, a muslim is commanded to deal with all mankind justly.

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

and...

"And let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do" (5:8)

Furthermore, Islam has clear rules that forbid the killing of innocent people such as women, children and the elderly. Fleeing/injured persons cannot be persued and mutilation of dead bodies (combatants) is forbidden, as it the destruction of building and places which have no connection with the enemies of Islam (oppressors).


The Qur’an says about the one who kills an innocent person: “….it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind.” [Al-Qur’an 5:32]

I am troubled by a couple events in the Prophet's life, but I don't see Islam as essentially violent.

Would you like to share the events in question as well as the source plz?

Peace.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


One thing that i just wna throw in is that the maximum amount of people killed within the 23yrs of prophethood was 2000 - and most of these took place because the enemy attacked muslims first, compared to the mass murders (in millions) done within the world wars, and other events which involve crusades etc.

People accuse islaam of violence because some people do crimes nowadays, so their labelled as muslim terrorists, yet the terrorist attacks done by those who reject islaam are way more worse and harmful.

[Woodrow]

I believe our Member Brenton raised an excellent question it the other thread about "Is Christianity a violent Religion?"

Do these threads presume that violence is evil?

Our answers will differ on how we perceive violence is meant on this thread.

[Jayda]

hola,

gracias netprince, i would not have responded without your kind encouragement.

i think this is a very difficult question... i think i agree with many things posters are saying here... such as "i do see islam as essentially violent" and "there are some things about mohammed that bother me" and i agree that the bigger question is whether we believe violence in any situation is wrong.

i do not believe in war or killing at all... as a personal and religious philosophy. and i think violence of any kind is uncivilized... but i am married to an air force officer who comes from a family of soldiers... and i understand that many people believe some kinds of violence are necessary or even good... even though i do not believe that. even though i would never disagree with my husband in front of anyone... that is not my place...

so i think that even though i do not believe it i do not consider people evil for believing it... i think that maybe they have just not come to a point in their lives that they can understand the effect of violence...

anyway, with that said i agree with posters who are saying that islam allows for violence in certain contained situations... and i agree with woodrows comment on the other poll that the actions of people are not the same as the religion...

so... i think maybe i have an opinion somewhere in this... maybe something like respectful or understanding disagreement? i do not mean to temper the intensity of the disagreement i have with the place of violence in islam, it is something i am very put off by... but i do mean to say that i understand there are noble intentions behind even this...

one thing that does concern me... is the way muslims themselves talk about certain aspects of their history that i thought they would think was misguided extremism... this does concern me... but that is not something we should talk about.

also another thing that concerns me is the issue of mohammed himself... who i consider a separate topic from islam in some regards...

i hope nobody is insulted... i love expressing my thoughts about these sensitive issues because truthfully they are the things i am most curious about and wish i could overcome my shyness to ask... but i know that they cause many hurt feelings and i do not know how to say what i wish to say sometimes... and also i do not believe it is polite to say things that upset people... so i never know how or when to respond to these very interesting threads...

Dios te bendiga

[netprince]

Islam is neither a religion of violence nor is it a religion of pacifism.

Islam is the middle path.

[netprince]

i hope nobody is insulted... i love expressing my thoughts about these sensitive issues because truthfully they are the things i am most curious about and wish i could overcome my shyness to ask... but i know that they cause many hurt feelings and i do not know how to say what i wish to say sometimes... and also i do not believe it is polite to say things that upset people... so i never know how or when to respond to these very interesting threads...

Dios te bendiga

If you have questions i personally think it best to ask. Like i said before, if the question is asked respectfully and with good manners then i know you wont offend people. There are many knowledgeable people here who might be able to provide answers. Whether the answers are satisfactory or not, is something only you would be able to decide. Problems arise when ill-mannered and ignorant people attack someones belief, which i know your not so you wouldnt do.

[Keltoi]

My personal belief is that Islam as a religion isn't any more violent than any other religion has been or is. However, I believe there is a political component at play here,that while not necessarily a part of Islam the overall religion, does use religion for its own purposes. Many are willing to justify any act of violence by Muslims, regardless of the objectives or purpose. That is what I see as the problem. There is such a "them and us" mindset among many Muslims that the concept of basic human morality goes out the window. Just my two cents, and my intent was not to insult anyone or any religion.

[Muslim Woman]

I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)


&&&

Do you view Islam as a violent religion? Why or why not

… If someone kills another person—unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth—it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind.

Our Messengers came to them with Clear Signs, but even after that, many of them committed outrages in the earth. (Qur’an, 5:32)



free movie download:

All forms of terrorist attack are roundly condemned in Islam. In Islam, it is a great sin to kill an innocent person, and anyone who does so will suffer great torment in the Hereafter

The pdf and txt verisons of the book Islam Denounces Terrorism are also available.
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com

[dougmusr]

All forms of terrorist attack are roundly condemned in Islam. In Islam, it is a great sin to kill an innocent person, and anyone who does so will suffer great torment in the Hereafter

Please define for me the Islamic meaning of innocent. Are Christians, Jews, Buddists, etc innocent according to Islam?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Actually yes, especially if they are doing no harm. You cant harm anyone who hasnt done anything. If someone attacks we can defend ourselves, but even in war, we cannot transgress our limits. If the other side seeks peace, then we should seek peace.

[north_malaysian]

Islam and Muslim are two different things...

[Woodrow]

Islam and Muslim are two different things...

Sadly you are right.

By definition a Muslim is a person who practices Islam [Submission to Allah(swt)]

But there are those who wear the name Muslim, but do not practice Islam.

[ehmad]

Islam Means "Peace" and Muslim mean "the one who has submitted to Allah's Will" . When both these terms are very much clear then how can there be a place for violence ?

"But God doth call to the home of peace. [YA: "Salam, peace is from the same root as Islam, the religion of unity and harmony."] He doth guide whom He pleaseth to a way that is straight. To those who do right is a goodly (reward) - yea, more (than in measure)! [YA: "The reward of the righteous will be far more than in proportion to their merits. For they will have the supreme bliss of being near to God, No darkness nor shame shall cover their faces! They are companions of the garden. They will abide therein (for aye)!" (Sura 10:25,26)

[FBI]

:sl:

Islam Means "Peace"

Actually Bro "Islam" means submission it's derived from "Peace" , but the accurate translation of the word is submission.

[Skillganon]

:sl:

Actually Bro "Islam" means submission it's derived from "Peace" , but the accurate translation of the word is submission.

I think you are correct, We can ask our brother from Saudi, if he does not know than what do you expect from others? LOL. Only kidding I am sure their are other members here knowledgable especially in arabic.

[D.Y.R#7XTRUST]

See I am a Fundamentalist Christian and do believe that Islam is on the most part peaceful as long as your not a radiculist. But I also believe that the radicules take certain scriptures of the Quran and twist them to fit their anger. Also I understand that you have different penalties for specific sins, like adultery, and stealing. Thou I do disagree with such penalties.

But it seems that you guys have been given a bad name because of some losers who decided it was Allahs will to kill innocent people because America is full of Idols. I do agree that North America is full of Idols, and as a Christian in this country you really have to pray to make sure there are none in your own life. But as for them destroying the trade centers because of it, I don't agree with that. But I realize that only about 10% of Muslims carry such a mindset. I guess the problem is who is who, and thats why we are weary of such a religion. Because when you think about it 10% of over a million Muslims is a pretty large number.

[FBI]

:sl:

See I am a Fundamentalist Christian and do believe that Islam is on the most part peaceful as long as your not a radiculist. But I also believe that the radicules take certain scriptures of the Quran and twist them to fit their anger. Also I understand that you have different penalties for specific sins, like adultery, and stealing. Thou I do disagree with such penalties

This is incorrect, like I said islam is also a militant religion, it makes sanctions for war, so to say that only Radicals would be involved with any violence is incorrect, cause if u look at islam you'll see it makes sanctions for violence under specific conditions.

[Skillganon]

See I am a Fundamentalist Christian and do believe that Islam is on the most part peaceful as long as your not a radiculist. But I also believe that the radicules take certain scriptures of the Quran and twist them to fit their anger. Also I understand that you have different penalties for specific sins, like adultery, and stealing. Thou I do disagree with such penalties.

But it seems that you guys have been given a bad name because of some losers who decided it was Allahs will to kill innocent people because America is full of Idols. I do agree that North America is full of Idols, and as a Christian in this country you really have to pray to make sure there are none in your own life. But as for them destroying the trade centers because of it, I don't agree with that. But I realize that only about 10% of Muslims carry such a mindset. I guess the problem is who is who, and thats why we are weary of such a religion. Because when you think about it 10% of over a million Muslims is a pretty large number.

"some people decided Allah will to kill innocent people because America is full of Idol?", I think that is grossly incorrect. I think enough has been said about that incident.

and I hope 10% of the christian do not profess the kind of christianity of mainly Bush and Blair.

[D.Y.R#7XTRUST]

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post.

[north_malaysian]

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post.

It's your personal view and understanding... I'm not offended... some of it are true...

[D.Y.R#7XTRUST]

:sl:

This is incorrect, like I said islam is also a militant religion, it makes sanctions for war, so to say that only Radicals would be involved with any violence is incorrect, cause if u look at islam you'll see it makes sanctions for violence under specific conditions.

Well I guess my question would be what are the conditions of which one would sanction war?

But I'm not saying your a radicule if you stone a man or women caught in adultery though it looks like I said that.(I just don't agree with it, but I understand why you do) Thats a miswording mistake on my part. But I am saying your a radicule if you kill or go at war with another country just because they are against what you stand for. Sometimes we just have to accept, and even voice what we believe. But to destroy because you disagree with the way they operate would be totaly wrong in my books anyway.

[FBI]

Well I guess my question would be what are the conditions of which one would sanction war?

But I'm not saying your a radicule if you stone a man or women caught in adultery though it looks like I said that.(I just don't agree with it, but I understand why you do) Thats a miswording mistake on my part. But I am saying your a radicule if you kill or go at war with another country just because they are against what you stand for. Sometimes we just have to accept, and even voice what we believe. But to destroy because you disagree with the way they operate would be totaly wrong in my books anyway.

:sl:

I understand where your comming from.

[Dawud_uk]

Do you view Islam as a violent religion? Why or why not

in islam we are peaceful with those who are peaceful with us, if you slap me i will ask you why you slapped me? do it again and i will knock you to the floor and kick you to a pulp so you cant do it again.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Abu Abdullah

[RiMa AlI]

ISLAM is a relign of 'Peace' c i rest ma case.... lol

Ite ite frm ma xknwldge...all da terrorist actz r likely 2 b dne by Muslim which a totally disgree wiv yea... I fnk pple fnk lik dat.. needz 2 get their head sorted... Gud riddonz..:enough!: :enough!:
Durn da London crisis.... I still rememba it i was in ma History lessn..... we were decussin abt it n sum1 waz lik suggestn it waz da French pple... coz they ddnt won da olympic fng n diz idiot waz syn dat it waz da Muslimzz quotein da terrorist Omd i swear he had a piece of my mind...He had beeef blud.... lol.. Nw y wud i wnna mke maself lowa then him...
Frm ma understndn pple hu killl innocence shudn't b clled Muslims...N datz 4 a fact... Am u ryt or wrng.... :? Killn da innocence is sinfull n ALLAH almighty decide hu diez..Pple hu tkez dat action will get punished durin da day of judgemnt.... Da penalties r very servere in da aftawrld...

Pple givz us a inadequate nme.... WE live in a Karaf country... C n dat tony blaire...N Grge W Bush declarin war in afgan n Iraq... it jst rediculous... 4 nuclear weapon which they cud not locate...Omd... Destroyn Allah all mightyz creationl.. Killed dat fckn Presidnt.... Hw bad cud it get...

XxXxx:sl:xXxXxX

[FBI]

:sl:

Also a problem we have is shieks and Imams sucking upto the media, trying to protray islam as this pacafistic religion when it's not.

[lolwatever]

it's hard making a point in a thread destined to be 3252452 pages...

but put it this way... Islam is complete way of life, as far as social behaviour, ofcourse it doesnt incite violence, no one can deny it enjoins kindness between people, caring for orphans and needy, donating etc... things that eliminate need for burglery, crime and other forms of violance.

In the case that people's security is under threat, Islam also has a practical resposne, it enjoins taking up necessary security measures to ward off threats or attacks against its denizens.

so even to answer 'YES and NO' just doesnt make sense... to me atleast.

all the best!

[shible]

Lack of knowledge and Mis-guidence in the society were the reasons for transforming normal humans into terrorist.

Islam has never said everyone who knows something abt it should keep it a secret, Instead it says everyone who knows something should first verify the level of truth in that info. and then if its really foolproof then circulate it to fellow brothers ans sisters without altering the content.

this is were people lack, this mis-communication abt religion has made some to pick a specific term in Islam and make their own rules. sure Allah doesn't like these kind of things

For Example Most of us have heard this following stance" There is no God But Allah ". When you take the term till God u may say Islam say's "there is no God" .

This is how most people are Misleaded about the terms of Islam

[Dawud_uk]

Lack of knowledge and Mis-guidence in the society were the reasons for transforming normal humans into terrorist.

Islam has never said everyone who knows something abt it should keep it a secret, Instead it says everyone who knows something should first verify the level of truth in that info. and then if its really foolproof then circulate it to fellow brothers ans sisters without altering the content.

this is were people lack, this mis-communication abt religion has made some to pick a specific term in Islam and make their own rules. sure Allah doesn't like these kind of things

For Example Most of us have heard this following stance" There is no God But Allah ". When you take the term till God u may say Islam say's "there is no God" .

This is how most people are Misleaded about the terms of Islam

assalaamu alaykum,

or maybe it is due to the fact that if scholars spoke certain points of true in the west and even in the muslim lands they would be locked up, measured up for a orange boiler suit and given a one way ticket to cuba?

i do not support terrorism, but what is terrorism? it is not as cut and dried as certain scholars found at the gates of rulers would try to make out to us.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Keltoi]

assalaamu alaykum,

or maybe it is due to the fact that if scholars spoke certain points of true in the west and even in the muslim lands they would be locked up, measured up for a orange boiler suit and given a one way ticket to cuba?

i do not support terrorism, but what is terrorism? it is not as cut and dried as certain scholars found at the gates of rulers would try to make out to us.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

"I do not support terrorism, but what is terrorism?" :? That is such a cliche response. 9-11, the embassy bombings in Africa, the Bali bombings, the suicide bombings in Israel, Iraq, and Afghanistan against civilians, some of the ETA attacks, IRA attacks, Tim McVeigh in OKC, Eric Rudolph, etc...these are all examples of terrorism, pure and simple.

Whether it is committed by Muslims, Christians, athiests, etc, terrorism is easily defined.

[Dawud_uk]

"I do not support terrorism, but what is terrorism?" :? That is such a cliche response. 9-11, the embassy bombings in Africa, the Bali bombings, the suicide bombings in Israel, Iraq, and Afghanistan against civilians, some of the ETA attacks, IRA attacks, Tim McVeigh in OKC, Eric Rudolph, etc...these are all examples of terrorism, pure and simple.

Whether it is committed by Muslims, Christians, athiests, etc, terrorism is easily defined.

keltoi,

a man drives up to a military checkpoint and blows up the car killing the soldiers at the check.

another man flying a plane drops a bomb from hundreds of feet in the air onto a different checkpoint killing different soldiers.

the west calls the first terrorism, the 2nd justified war. i call the west's standard hypocrisy!

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Abu Abdullah

[Keltoi]

keltoi,

a man drives up to a military checkpoint and blows up the car killing the soldiers at the check.

another man flying a plane drops a bomb from hundreds of feet in the air onto a different checkpoint killing different soldiers.

the west calls the first terrorism, the 2nd justified war. i call the west's standard hypocrisy!

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Abu Abdullah

As I stated, intentional attacks on non-combatants is the most easily defined as terrorism. Attacks against soldiers by car bombs, while not traditional combat, can be labeled a guerilla tactic. The U.S. calls these attacks "terrorist" attacks primarily because of the tactic. It is frustrating to face an enemy who seldom stands and fights but uses suicide bombs and IED devices. That frustration comes out as labeling them "terrorist attacks". However, in the world beyond political rhetoric, terrorism is easily defined.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ;

 In Islam, it is a great sin to kill an innocent person,

dougmusr : Please define for me the Islamic meaning of innocent.  Are Christians, Jews, Buddists, etc innocent according to Islam?

Of Course .

Surah 9. Repentance, Dispensation

If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. ( verse 6 )


also , pl read post #26 of . Muslimah_Sis. Related Quranic verses are there ..... Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8) & more.


And pl. remember , permission was given to '' fight back'' after long 13 years of persecution. Even in war , Muslims were ordered to ' Escort ' enemies if they want peace. (9:6)

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Islam is a realist religion.

It deal with every life.

It support retribution and aggresion BUT only when attacked or when it is required for justice to be done.

Unlike other religon that says god is loving and what not Islam makes clear that love comes with responsibility.

Allah does not condone gays/lesbians/
Allah does not condone backstabber,does not condone backbiter,evildoers and rapist and so on.

In Islam punishment is meted out in light of the actions and reason.

I would say that many other religon fall short for they worship the a god of man,a god that they interpret his desires.


that is why Islam is submission,,not creation.

worship the Creator not creation

[Jayda]

i do not support terrorism, but what is terrorism? it is not as cut and dried as certain scholars found at the gates of rulers would try to make out to us.

hola Dawud_uk,

i agree... it is one of many reasons i do not believe in violence at all... i thinkg people can justify any kind of violence if they truly wish to make it so. as long as there is an easy solution offered by violence that allows you to escape the difficult responsibility of forgiveness, people will find a way to justify the easy solution and will choose that...

Dios te bendiga

[skhalid]

Because I am a muslim...u cud say I am biased :rollseyes
Islam is not a violent religion...it is suppose to be the opposite...a peaceful religion...that concentrate on what they know...what they have been told by God, and Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) as well as other important people who made Islam as it is today!!! Some muslims can be considered violent...due to their interpretations of th Qur-an...and the path in life that they follow...how they understood things.:raging:

[Dawud_uk]

As I stated, intentional attacks on non-combatants is the most easily defined as terrorism. Attacks against soldiers by car bombs, while not traditional combat, can be labeled a guerilla tactic. The U.S. calls these attacks "terrorist" attacks primarily because of the tactic. It is frustrating to face an enemy who seldom stands and fights but uses suicide bombs and IED devices. That frustration comes out as labeling them "terrorist attacks". However, in the world beyond political rhetoric, terrorism is easily defined.

keltoi,

so you would condemn the bombings of civilian areas by US and UK planes then? some of these attacks have almost reached the level of carpet bombing such as that in fallujah.

Abu Abdullah

[snakelegs]

i voted yes and no because there are specific cases in which the qur'an clearly calls for violence againt non-believers, but basically it is not a violent religion.

[Snowflake]

i voted yes and no because there are specific cases in which the qur'an clearly calls for violence againt non-believers, but basically it is not a violent religion.

What is the difference between any country fighting to defend their country against invaders and muslims fighting to defend their land and right to practice their religion? None.

The Quran does not call for violence but for self-defence.

[snakelegs]

What is the difference between any country fighting to defend their country against invaders and muslims fighting to defend their land and right to practice their religion? None.

The Quran does not call for violence but for self-defence.

i am on weak ground here. the qur'an does call on the believers to fight and conquer the disbelievers, doesn't it? and innitially, wasn't islam spread by the sword and this was considered ok? please note, i said specific cases.
i know islam encourages self defense, and i agree with this stance completely.

[Saif4U]

well... we muslims should not be on the defence all the time trying to please other people by ignoring part of our DEEN.. ISLAM is Peace but at the same time we are told to use force when muslims or Islam is being surpressed and we as muslims should be proud of that. because our BELOVED Prophet took part in 27 Battles himself.. that is a daleel in itself. Today we have a problem those that preach Peace are ignoring the JIhad part of Faith and those that get too excited with Jihad show NO peacefull side of Islam.. we should have a right balance.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Islam was spread by the sword and the sword was the Prophet Muhammad(saw), SubhanAllah. It was spread by his(saw) righteous character. The only time the sword was ever picked up was in self defense. This isnt the crusades.

[snakelegs]

Islam was spread by the sword and the sword was the Prophet Muhammad(saw), SubhanAllah. It was spread by his(saw) righteous character.

not even in its early days? if that's true, then obviously, i was wrong. (not a first, by any means)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Saying it was spread by the sword is saying it went through with force, which is incorrect. In the early days, the Prophet(saw) called the people together to the worshp of One True God. Slowly did he(saw) gather followers. People started to consider him(saw) to be a threat. Everyone knew him(saw) to be truthful and kind in every aspect of life. But only in this one incident, many people turned away because they refused to leave their idolatrous and barbaric lifestyle. Many of his people that came to Islam were harrassed and forced to leave their homes.

[ehmad]

:sl:

Actually Bro "Islam" means submission it's derived from "Peace" , but the accurate translation of the word is submission.

Jazakallah kahir brother.. Indeed you are right but in that context, I quoted a verse from Surah yonus, and hence I was refering to that particular verse. when you read the arabic script in which Allah Sub'hanahu wa ta'alah says:

wa laahu yad 'o ila daaris Salam wa yahdi mai yashaa'o ila siratim mustaqeem.
And Allah summoneth to the abode of peace, and leadeth whom he will to a straight path. (10:25)

Here brother, the term abode of peace stands for ISLAM, and hence I quoted the Verse.

Jazakullahu khair, and I am sorry if I have offended you in anyway, my intention was just to clarify myself afterall we are here to learn from each other.

[Malaikah]

not even in its early days? if that's true, then obviously, i was wrong. (not a first, by any means)

You seem to be confused, the early days is when most of the self-defence happened!

Well it depends on what you mean by early days. The first ten years involved no war, the Muslims were too weak and they were basically oppressed and tortured by the rulers of the area they lived in.

After that wars began in self-defence, first against the people who oppressed the Muslims and who continued to oppress some Muslims, and then in defense of many, many tribes who tried to invade and take over the Muslims, and because of broken treaties (broken by the non-Muslims). Some of the wars that were not in self-defence involved those were the rulers of certain tribes refused to negotiate with the Muslims and therefore did not all the people of those tribes to hear and learn about Islam, so they fought against them to and conquered them.

[Snowflake]

i am on weak ground here. the qur'an does call on the believers to fight and conquer the disbelievers, doesn't it? and innitially, wasn't islam spread by the sword and this was considered ok? please note, i said specific cases.
i know islam encourages self defense, and i agree with this stance completely.

No problem, we are all learning inshaAllah.

Jihad is more of defensive reaction rather than an offensive action. Prophet Muhammed was only given permission to not abide by worthless peace treaties when they were repeatedly violated by disbelievers. Even then muslims were commanded by Allah to give protection to those who seeked it.

And if anyone of the polytheists seeks your protection [O Muhammad!], then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and escort him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who know not (9.6). How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His Messenger for the polytheists, save those with whom you [O you who believe!] made a treaty with at the al-Haram mosque? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Surely Allah loves the dutiful (9.7).

The first verse proves that Islam does not see the disbeliever as an enemy. The second verse tells muslims to honour their peace treaties with the disbelievers as long as the latter honoured them.


Even after the death of the Prophet (PBUH) when many tribes apostated from Islam, the muslims only demand was that the disbelievers who lived in islamic states continue to pay tax (jizyah) in return for protection - as agreed in the Prophet's lifetime.

Jizya was levied from those who did not wish to accept Islam. Again this proves that disbelievers were not coerced to accept islam. War was declared by muslims when it was evident that disbelievers were motivated in opposition against muslims. It was then that they were given a choice of accepting Islam or paying jizyah. The refusal of both meant war.


"Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them)."(4:90)

I can post vast amounts of Quranic text that proves that on no account are muslims told to spread islam by violence. But I will leave with one verse which more or less sums up everything in a nutshell. Then how could Islam possibly have been spread by sword?

"There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error" ( 2: 256)


peace

P.S. Pleaze correct me if I've said anything wrong. I am only just learning Islamic history and haven't grasped the concept of sharing what I've learnt very well. I may have misunderstood something myself. Correct me nicely if you have to. :D

[snakelegs]

islam spread so fast - before long, it covered a huge expanse of land. none of this was by simple conquest of the sword? it was all self-defence? it was spread by persuasion?

[Malaikah]

What do you mean? Islamic rule was spread by the sword in some cases yes, i.e. in cases were there was hostility against the Muslims. But no one was ever forced to become a Muslim by the sword.

[naz87]

the hindus in india were forced to become by the sword, but the mughal rulers who did that were corrupt.

[snakelegs]

yes, maybe i just failed to distinguish the religious from the political.
if so, i would like to change my vote from "yes and no" to "no".
i do not think basically that islam is a violent religion, but i thought that on specific occaisions, it sanctioned violence in order to spread the religion (as did the jews in the early days if you read the bible), notwithdstanding "there is no compulsion in religion".
i still have a lot to learn.

[snakelegs]

the hindus in india were forced to become by the sword, but the mughal rulers who did that were corrupt.

yes, many have been killed in the name of religion - even when the religion clearly condemns it. look at christianity.

[Muslim Woman]

salaam/peace;

i voted yes and no because there are specific cases in which the qur'an clearly calls for violence againt non-believers, but basically it is not a violent religion.

---which verse u r referring to ?


As i mentioned earlier , God commands Muslims to ' escort ' enemies .....what do u think of this verse ?

Prophet Muhammed (p ) after conquering the holy Macca , forgave his enemies including the killer of his daughter , the lady who ate the liver of his dear uncle & others except few ( maximum 13 or 14 ) war criminals. He did not take any personal revenge but punish only few murderers.


He had 10, 000 armed soldiers with him .....he could easily killed all his enemies & destroyed them totally including cattles as we find such command in other holy book......but he did not.


He said what Prophet Josehp/ Yusuf (p) told : You are my brothers.

U may listen / watch a nice music video of our revert bro Yusuf Islam ( ex Cat Stevens ).

Life of the Last Prophet (p)
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/sunnah

htpp://www.mountainoflight.com

http://www.mp3.com/albums/176991/sum...ml?from=141272

If u think Islam was spread by swords , well why non-Muslms are embracing Islam now ? Who is forcing them with swords ?


Turning Muslim in Texas .

George W Bush may be backed by Christian fundamentalists but in his home state of Texas, Islam is the latest big draw.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53144432289069
Islam Youngest Muslim Reverts in The World. Children in England Turn To Islam
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...31311255429137

Light upon light


http://www.lightuponlight.com/islam/...&orderby=dateD

[snakelegs]

salaam/peace;





---which verse u r referring to ?


As i mentioned earlier , God commands Muslims to ' escort ' enemies .....what do u think of this verse ?

Prophet Muhammed (p ) after conquering the holy Macca , forgave his enemies including the killer of his daughter , the lady who ate the liver of his dear uncle & others except few ( maximum 13 or 14 ) war criminals. He did not take any personal revenge but punish only few murderers.


He had 10, 000 armed soldiers with him .....he could easily killed all his enemies & destroyed them totally including cattles as we find such command in other holy book......but he did not.


He said what Prophet Josehp/ Yusuf (p) told : You are my brothers.

U may listen / watch a nice music video of our revert bro Yusuf Islam ( ex Cat Stevens ).

Life of the Last Prophet (p)
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/sunnah

htpp://www.mountainoflight.com

http://www.mp3.com/albums/176991/sum...ml?from=141272

If u think Islam was spread by swords , well why non-Muslms are embracing Islam now ? Who is forcing them with swords ?


Turning Muslim in Texas .

George W Bush may be backed by Christian fundamentalists but in his home state of Texas, Islam is the latest big draw.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53144432289069
Islam Youngest Muslim Reverts in The World. Children in England Turn To Islam
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...31311255429137

Light upon light


http://www.lightuponlight.com/islam/...&orderby=dateD

hi,
i admitted that i am on weak ground here, so i am not referring to any particular verse. i know islam condemns killing of innocents. but i thought in its early years, it had been spread by the sword. i have been corrected. obviously, i need to do some research. like read the qur'an that is sitting on my shelf!
can't do mp3's - dialup.

[snakelegs]

just remembered reading on islam qa about islam being spread by the sword
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=5441&ln=eng
5441

Was Islam spread by the sword?

Question:
Some enemies of the religion claim that Islam was spread by the sword. What is your response to that?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Islam was spread by proof and evidence, in the case of those who listened to the message and responded to it. And it was spread by strength and the sword in the case of those who stubbornly resisted, until they had no choice and had to submit to the new reality.

And Allaah is the source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Q.How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword? ?

A.It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.

1. Islam means peace. Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace.It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary. The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8): "History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."

4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years. Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.

5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians. Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.

6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India. The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.

7. Indonesia and Malaysia. Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"

8. East Coast of Africa. Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"

9. Thomas Carlyle. The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can."

10. No compulsion in religion. With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse: "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error" [Al-Qur’an 2:256] 11. Sword of the Intellect. It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125: "Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." [Al-Qur’an 16:125]

12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984. An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?

13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe. Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?

14. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says, "People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, it fell the day MUHAMMED (pbuh) was born".

http://johnw.host.sk/faq/qfour.htm

[dougmusr]

Has anyone read "In the Presence of My Enemies" by Gracia Burnham?

[snakelegs]

tayyaba,
i don't think what you posted necessarily negates the fact that, at least in its early days, islam was spread by the sword.
here's another from islam q&a:
"Allaah sent him – meaning the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – with the guiding Book and the conquering sword, ahead of the Hour, so that Allaah alone would be worshipped with no partner or associate, and his provision was placed beneath the shade of his sword and spear. Allaah has established the religion of Islam with proof and evidence, and with the sword and spear, both together and inseparable.

This is some of the evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah. The evidence clearly indicates that the sword is one of the most important means that led to the spread of Islam."
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=43087&ln=eng

[snakelegs]

Has anyone read "In the Presence of My Enemies" by Gracia Burnham?

no - tell us about it.

[Malaikah]

Snakelegs, you are confused I think (correct me if I am wrong:D)

What do you think the statement 'islam was spread by the sword' means? If you think it means that people were forced to become Muslims, this is wrong, no doubt.

What it means is that Islamic rule was established in areas of resistance by war and battle, until a truce was reached and the people became governed by the Muslims (depending on the circumstances). That does not mean that they actually were forced to become Muslims!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

actually it does answer it very well. i think ur confused a lil bit.

[snakelegs]

maybe you're right and i'm confused.

this seems clear to me - am i reading it wrong?

"It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (12/14):
Islam spread by means of proof and evidence to those who listened to the message and responded to it, and it spread by means of force and the sword to those who were stubborn and arrogant, until they were overwhelmed and became no longer stubborn, and submitted to that reality."

it does not say "islamic rule" but "islam".

"The defeatists among the Muslims come out to defend Islam, and they want to disavow Islam of this so-called lie, so they deny that Islam was spread by the sword, and they say that jihad is not prescribed in Islam, except in the case of self-defence. There is no such thing in Islam as taking the initiative in fighting in their view. This goes against what the Muslim scholars have stated, let alone the fact that it goes against the Qur’aan and Sunnah."

"Al-Bukhaari (4557) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “ ‘You (true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind’ [Aal- Imraan 3:110 – interpretation of the meaning].” He said: “You are the best (i.e., the most beneficial) of people for mankind, you bring them in the chains that are around their necks until they enter Islam.” Can people be brought in chains except in the case of jihad?? "

"The fact that the sword and power were means of spreading Islam is not a sources of shame for Islam, rather it is one of its strengths and virtues, because that makes people adhere to that which will benefit them in this world and in the Hereafter."

however, there is another ruling where it clearly mentions that people were given the option of paying the jizyah (protection money).

i have to read further - i am confused.

[Malaikah]

This is how it worked. The non-Muslim were given three options:

1. Become Muslim
2. Or stay as you are and pay the jizyah (This means they are know 'part' of the Islamic community because they pay taxes to the Muslim in return for protection)
3. OR fight.

it does not say "islamic rule" but "islam".

But Islamic rule is a part of Islam. It is hard to give a generalised answer, because every situation was different. But one example was a Jewish tribe who did not want to fight so they paid the jizyah, and in return gained the protection of the Muslims. They were allowed to govern themselves how they wished, but some Muslims were sent to stay with them and help regulate things etc. Can you see how even though they did not become Muslim, Islam had spread to them? :? They were not against the Muslims, they were now working together with them... and so Islam had spread to them...

[AzizMostafa]

Islam is more Defensive than Offensive. More here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...ding-evil.html
Peace + Flowers

[Qurratul Ayn]

Do you view Islam as a violent religion? Why or why not

Hello

No, I do not view Islam as a violent religion Friend MTAFFI, the reason being is that it is not Islam is a peace-loving religion and does not permit violence of any kind.

At the time of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him), there were may disputes amongst tribes, you may even say or write that there are now still, but the Prophet was a Messenger of Allah Ta'ala and it was his duty to spread the words of Islam to many people. The wars that have taken place during the time of the Prophet were done,as they were the will of Allah Ta'ala also that when people did not leave Islam alone and the Prophet they caused trouble and started wars as they were frightened of the truth and that the higher people's welath and authority and respect may be broken, sue to these reasons and many others, many people became enemies of out Prophet and espised him and wanted to get rid of him even though the Prophet had not used violence or had injustice done to them.

Nowadays, many peole may think Islam is a violent, peace-destroying religion but they are mislead, deluded and have a misconception of the Islam, if they were to think and learn and reserch and ask scholars and Imamas, they may know that Islam is not instead they may prefer to think of Islam as a bad religion which in fact their ignorance and unwillingness of finding the truth puts them off the real truth of Islam.

Peace to all.
Qurratul Ayn

P.S. I already have read many articles that many Brothers and Sisters have posted in therefor ethay may answer your question of their views.
P.P.S. If there are any mistakes or any errors in my writing or any facts that may be wrong, please correct me, Jazak'Allah Khair and Thank You.

[FBI]

:sl:

does not permit violence of any kind.

Like i said before this isn't correct under specific situations violence is premitted.

[Pygoscelis]

ye, hands get chopped off, people get stoned. It gets violent but its not barbaric nor oppresive but completely just.

That is in the eye of the beholder. As a muslim, of course you believe that.

A thread title like this is more than a bit provocative and I don't think you really want honest responses from both sides of the fence. Looks like bait to me to get people banned.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Say it to the one who started it :)

[snakelegs]

This is how it worked. The non-Muslim were given three options:

1. Become Muslim
2. Or stay as you are and pay the jizyah (This means they are know 'part' of the Islamic community because they pay taxes to the Muslim in return for protection)
3. OR fight.



But Islamic rule is a part of Islam. It is hard to give a generalised answer, because every situation was different. But one example was a Jewish tribe who did not want to fight so they paid the jizyah, and in return gained the protection of the Muslims. They were allowed to govern themselves how they wished, but some Muslims were sent to stay with them and help regulate things etc. Can you see how even though they did not become Muslim, Islam had spread to them? :? They were not against the Muslims, they were now working together with them... and so Islam had spread to them...

yes, i see what you are saying and it is hard to distinguish islamic rule from islam as they are in the same package. nevertheless, i would have to conclude that in the early days, there were instances where islam itself was spread by the sword. it does get confusing tho. in the instance above, it would clearly be "islamic rule". but sometimes it is not clear.

[snakelegs]

Islam is more Defensive than Offensive. More here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...ding-evil.html
Peace + Flowers

yes, i agree. but i don't think it was always so.
the religion is not a violent religion, but in its early days it resorted to violence and it was not always for defensive purposes. but i am still learning and not positive on this issue yet.
btw, i like your flowers!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ In the "early days," the Muslims were very weak...the only time they picked up the sword was in defense...
i already told u a bit about it and so did Malaikah.

Peace

[Snowflake]

are we still goin around in circles lololol :giggling:

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL. i feel like a parrot :X

[snakelegs]

ok - i am going to let this silly thing rest as i am not really sure about this stuff - i said in the beginning that i am on shaky ground on this.
i need to learn more.
thanks and i apologize for giving you a hard time. i am not an advocate of the view that islam was spread by the sword - i am just seeking to find out the truth. i thought i knew, but obviously i either don't, or don't know enough.
i am confused - that's for sure.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ lol its ok snake. i like that u wana know in the first place. seriously, if u have more questions, keep askin :)

[snakelegs]

thanks, tayyaba. i got these ideas from the islam qa website, which i find confusing. need to read more.
again, i will put this issue on hold for now. (= indefinite vacation?).
the more i learn, the more i realize how very little i know, which is really pretty cool.

[netprince]

the more i learn, the more i realize how very little i know

Mashallah, shows you have truly learnt something then. Many people go through their entire life without understanding that.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

the more i learn, the more i realize how very little i know, which is really pretty cool.

MashAllah, thats the best thing ive read all day :D
thats good. keep learning! knowledge is power!

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

This is how it worked. The non-Muslim were given three options:

1. Become Muslim
2. Or stay as you are and pay the jizyah (This means they are know 'part' of the Islamic community because they pay taxes to the Muslim in return for protection)
3. OR fight. ..

well sis , was not there one more option that leave the place ? During the time of the last Prophet (p), Jews were allowed to leave . Also , i found another example here.


ISLAM DENOUNCES TERRORISM


HARUN YAHYA

---Karen Armstrong describes the second capture of Jerusalem in these words:


On 2 October 1187 Saladin and his army entered Jerusalem as conquerors and for the next 800 years Jerusalem would remain a Muslim city. Saladin kept his word, and conquered the city according to the highest Islamic ideals


. He did not take revenge for the 1099 massacre, as the Koran advised (16:127), and now that hostilities had ceased he ended the killing (2:193-194).

Not a single Christian was killed and there was no plunder. The ransoms were deliberately very low...


Saladin was moved to tears by the plight of families who were rent asunder and he released many of them freely, as the Koran urged, though to the despair of his long-suffering treasurers.



His brother al-Adil was so distressed by the plight of the prisoners that he asked Saladin for a thousand of them for his own use and then released them on the spot...... All the Muslim leaders were scandalised to see the rich Christians escaping with their wealth, which could have been used to ransom all the prisoners…

[The Patriarch] Heraclius paid his ten-dinar ransom like everybody else and was even provided with a special escort to keep his treasure safe during the journey to Tyre.25

[dougmusr]

Saladin was moved to tears by the plight of families who were rent asunder and he released many of them freely, as the Koran urged, though to the despair of his long-suffering treasurers. His brother al-Adil was so distressed by the plight of the prisoners that he asked Saladin for a thousand of them for his own use and then released them on the spot...... All the Muslim leaders were scandalised to see the rich Christians escaping with their wealth, which could have been used to ransom all the prisoners…

If Islam taught mercy, why was Saladin in the minority and all the other Muslim leaders in disagreement. Were they reading the same Quran?

[Nazeeyah786]

:sl: Islam iS a religion entailed with Peace Unity Security Success Health. Islam is not a Violent RELIGION. It is no other than POLITICS who have PROVOKED members of the public to take such step in HASTE. Therefore it is POLITICS to have be BLAMED for the cause of TERRORISM.

:w:

:omg:

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ;

That is in the eye of the beholder. As a muslim, of course you believe that.

A thread title like this is more than a bit provocative and I don't think you really want honest responses from both sides of the fence. Looks like bait to me to get people banned.

Most Common Questions asked by Non-Muslims

http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=154&chapter=1
Capital punishment for the rapists


Under the Islamic shariah, a man convicted of having raped a woman, is given capital punishment.

Many are astonished at this ˜harsh sentence. Some even say that Islam is a ruthless, barbaric religion! I have asked a simple question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose, God forbid, someone rapes your wife, your mother or your sister.


You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to death.


To them I ask, if someone rapes your wife or your mother you want to put him to death. But if the same crime is committed on somebody elses wife or daughter you say capital punishment is barbaric. Why should there be double standards?


&&
The much awaited talk by Dr. Zakir Naik on the topic
‘Is Terrorism a Muslim monopoly?’

“It says in the Book of Numbers that whoever worships other than God should be killed,” he said, referring to the Bible, yet such militant verses were conveniently ignored by the Western media.



“In every religion there are black sheep and the media keep putting these people forward. This is a media conspiracy and a way of pushing people away from Islam.” he added.


http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modu...rticle&sid=261

[Keltoi]

keltoi,

so you would condemn the bombings of civilian areas by US and UK planes then? some of these attacks have almost reached the level of carpet bombing such as that in fallujah.

Abu Abdullah

If there were intentional targeting of civilians going on in these airstrikes, then yes I would condemn them. In most cases there are not intentional targeting of civilians by U.S. or U.K. aircraft. They are human beings, just like you and me, and would not intentionally target civilians in most instances. That being said, if a U.S. or U.K. aircraft intentionally targeted civilians I would obviously denounce it. Do you condemn the intentional targeting of civilians by Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan? Not to mention the many civilians targeted worldwide by Muslim extremists?

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

If Islam taught mercy, why was Saladin in the minority and all the other Muslim leaders in disagreement. Were they reading the same Quran?

a revert wrote : Islam is wonderful but i can not stand Muslims.

hope it answers ur question ... yes , we do read the same Quran but unfortunately we all don't follow the commands of God.

[dougmusr]

Salaam/peace;a revert wrote : Islam is wonderful but i can not stand Muslims. hope it answers ur question ... yes , we do read the same Quran but unfortunately we all don't follow the commands of God.

I just think itis interesting from the quote about Saladin that he was in the minority among Muslim leaders in understanding the Quran to teach mercy in this particular situation.

[Pygoscelis]

You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to death.

Well let me be the first then to say I would NOT kill them or torture them. That would make me worse than them. And I have to wonder about these people you spoke to before me.

[Malaikah]

^Torture is not allowed in Islam. Usually people who are against the death sentence, when they are asked what would you do to a man who raped your mother/sister/wife, they say they would kill him.:rollseyes

[lolwatever]

^Torture is not allowed in Islam. Usually people who are against the death sentence, when they are asked what would you do to a man who raped your mother/sister/wife, they say they would kill him.:rollseyes

:sl:

^ n the evidence is from abttle of badr when the companiosn captured the mushrik and they questioned him about the enemy camp, and then they hit him coz they thought he was lying and the prophet was parying when they dunnit

after he finished he told em "do you hit people to give you answers that you want to hear?"

amongst other cases.

:w:

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ;

the post is for those who think the Last Prophet (p) tortured his enemies & Islam is a violent religion.



The Last Prophet (p) forgave the killer of his own daughter , he forgave those who tortured & forced him to leave his birthplace holy Macca. When he returned back there with 10,000 armed soldiers , what did he do ? He tortured them ??? No , no , no. Pl. read his biography . A man who was capable of taking revenge but forgave his personal enemies , i wonder how u can accuse/ think that he encouraged torture ?


Non-Muslims tried to do the ethnic cleansing of Muslims . Muslims fault was that they believed in One God only & asked others not to worship false deities. Muslims were tortured for long 13 years , then they got permission to fight back.

In a war , Muslim soldiers killed a woman . Last Prophet (p) ordered them not to hurt/kill any unarmed person. So, later Muslims normally never did fighting at night to avoid the killing of civilians mistakenly.

Pl. read his biography from a neutral source if u don't want to visit any Islamic site for reading his life. U can read book of Karen Armstrong " Muhammed " .......she is not a Muslim.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

...... Not to mention the many civilians targeted worldwide by Muslim extremists?

===ok , how many innocent civilian are killed by Muslim extremists ?


Number Of Iraqi Civilians Slaughtered In America's Rape Of Iraq - At Least 655,000 + +

Read this newsletter online http://tinyurl.com/dy6yy

===
http://tinyurl.com/usq4x

[lolwatever]

Salaam/peace ;

The Last Prophet (p) forgave the killer of his own daughter , he forgave those who tortured & forced him to leave his birthplace holy Macca. When he returned back there with 10,000 armed soldiers , what did he do ? He tortured them ??? No , no , no. Pl. read his biography . A man who was capable of taking revenge but forgave his personal enemies , i wonder how u can accuse that he encouraged torture ?


Non-Muslims tried to do the ethnic cleansing of Muslims . Muslims fault was that they believed in One God only & asked others not to worship false deities. Muslims were tortured for long 13 years , then they got permission to fight back.

In a war , Muslim soldiers killed a woman . Last Prophet (p) ordered them not to hurt/kill any unarmed person. So, later Muslims normally never did fighting at night to avoid the killing of civilians mistakenly.

Pl. read his biography from a neutral source if u don't want to visit any Islamic site for reading his life. U can read book of Karen Armstrong " Muhammed " .......she is not a Muslim.

:sl:
erm... wat do u think i was trying to say?! I was affirming cheese's point :uuh:
:w:

[Keltoi]

Salaam;



===ok , how many innocent civilian are killed by Muslim extremists ?


Number Of Iraqi Civilians Slaughtered In America's Rape Of Iraq - At Least 655,000 + +

Read this newsletter online http://tinyurl.com/dy6yy

===
http://tinyurl.com/usq4x

That number is highly suspect as there are hundreds of supposed estimates that differ from one another, but in one sense you are correct, war itself is an evil that causes unnecessary death. This issue is fairly off topic, so I don't want to get into a debate about politics.

[Pygoscelis]

^Torture is not allowed in Islam. Usually people who are against the death sentence, when they are asked what would you do to a man who raped your mother/sister/wife, they say they would kill him.:rollseyes

Though I'm sure there are some people who would answer this way, I suspect that is mostly a meme that goes around pro-death circles. I have yet to meet people who would answer the way you say people usually do. I have been asked this question myself (not here) with pro-death people expecting me to answer that I'd kill them and then ignoring me after I've said I wouldn't.

[Pygoscelis]

Salaam;



===ok , how many innocent civilian are killed by Muslim extremists ?


Number Of Iraqi Civilians Slaughtered In America's Rape Of Iraq - At Least 655,000 + +

Read this newsletter online http://tinyurl.com/dy6yy

===
http://tinyurl.com/usq4x

Both are deplorable. I completely agree that Bush's crusade has been disastrous. He didn't even attack the source of terrorism but invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. But that being said, it doesn't somehow excuse the muslim extremists for their acts.

[lolwatever]

Though I'm sure there are some people who would answer this way, I suspect that is mostly a meme that goes around pro-death circles. I have yet to meet people who would answer the way you say people usually do. I have been asked this question myself (not here) with pro-death people expecting me to answer that I'd kill them and then ignoring me after I've said I wouldn't.

erm but wer'e discussing whether Islam is a violent religion, not whether certain people are pro certain things... two totally diff things. Even though personally i think there's very few (if any) actual Muslims who are pro torture! :uuh:

n the evidence i quoted gives solid proof that it is indeed an Islamic regulation, not just a claim.. about torture.

tc all the best

[Pygoscelis]

Um ya, sorry I let Muslim Woman take us off topic by responding to her claim.

I still say this thread is a dangerous one. You really shouldn't post a question to which the answer may be offensive to you. Given the reaction to my candid and honest response I got in the "why not Islam" thread to that question I can only imagine the reaction I'd get here. I don't think I'm alone in that thinking.

[SilentObserver]

Um ya, sorry I let Muslim Woman take us off topic by responding to her claim.

I still say this thread is a dangerous one. You really shouldn't post a question to which the answer may be offensive to you. Given the reaction to my candid and honest response I got in the "why not Islam" thread to that question I can only imagine the reaction I'd get here. I don't think I'm alone in that thinking.

No you are not. A number of times questions have been asked here that I have not bothered to answer. If I can't answer honestly, then why answer at all? Often times it seems a question is asked, anticipating the obvious answer from a nonmuslim, in order to criticize the given answer. A trap. Not saying that is what is happening in this thread.

[Muslim Woman]

salaam;

erm... wat do u think i was trying to say?! I was affirming cheese's point :uuh:

***************

-----oooopsssss . sorry bro. I think , the way u spelled , it gave a negative impression...sounded like mocking.....sorry again. Insha Allah , i will edit that post.

PS. I explaine this few miniutes earlier , but can't see my post

[Snowflake]

It's post #113 (page 8) sis :)

[lolwatever]

salaam;

erm... wat do u think i was trying to say?! I was affirming cheese's point :uuh:

***************

-----oooopsssss . sorry bro. I think , the way u spelled , it gave a negative impression...sounded like mocking.....sorry again. Insha Allah , i will edit that post.

PS. I explaine this few miniutes earlier , but can't see my post

no worries sis :D
tc
:w:

[ashara]

in the history of mankind there has been many wars and even 'simple' acts of uncontrolled rage justified with thousand and one excuses. i am sure many will agree one of the common excuse is religion. when the native people of America were wiped out and many other nations plundered, it was in the name of God, Glory and Gold. The fatwah to kill Salman Rushdie was carried out in the name of God. Across time "God" has been an easy target - after all u don't get a strike of lightning immediately after declaring personal agendas in 'his' name.
i agree that a religion that allows 'ambiguity' in matters of violance/barbaric ( i am referring to some posts about islamic laws against stealing/adultery etc) acts byitself promotes violance. but u see the problem is not that there is ambiguity, but the problem is that so many of the muslims do not read the Quran in its entirity but pick and chose what they like. and matters are made worse when those not fluent in Arabic merely recite it (without even reading a respectable translation) and rely solely on 'religious' authorities. and these authorities on their part base their interpretations (not all of them) on misguided ideals. for a muslim to 'go to war', he/she must do it after an injuction given by a religious figure who is both pious and know the rulings well.
life is precious in islam - so much so that under no circumstance is suicide allowed. which is why when a muslim is asked to go to battle and risk his life a 'bountious reward' is offered. but many forget that it is only achievable in the right set of circumstances. Just like the followers of David koresh and Heaven's gate, there are in every type of religion those who are misguided by so called enlightened souls who are as lost as they are, if not more.

i guess the point i am trying to make is that do not look at one group of people within a sample and make a generalization - in this case some of us are not just generalizing the people in the group, but even they house they live in. so pls do not project every single person who says he/she is a muslim with Islam, Quran or even the idea of God. (i believe those in any religious group will attest how different each member in their group are in terms of piety and understanding). otherwise there will never be an end to pointless arguments as then Jews can start hating the christians who persecuted them (was it not under the banner of Judas the traitor that some of the populace were poisoned into thinking all Jews are bad) and the muslims will hate the christians who went on the crusades (sanctioned by the church) when it has nothing to do with Jesus's teaching.
it is a little unfair to state that some read a 'different' Quran than the rest. there are so many muslims but how many go about killing people and 'love' violance? how many of us here actually have muslim neighbours who lead life not too different than our own? but are the fact they are peaceful and not in the media mean they can be forgotten from our consciousness as muslims?

this just my opinion. apologies if i had made any mistakes and pls feel free to correct me. thanks in advance.

p/s muslim bros and sis - tell me if this is right : there is no where in the Quran the 'stoning' of adulterers is stated and also this was never carried out during the prophets time but it was Saidina Umar who got 'over zealous' and declared the new ruling?

[FBI]

:sl:

p/s muslim bros and sis - tell me if this is right : there is no where in the Quran the 'stoning' of adulterers is stated and also this was never carried out during the prophets time but it was Saidina Umar who got 'over zealous' and declared the new ruling?

Wrong bro it was done during the time of the prophet, he him self even allowed it after a women came forward and requested to be stoned.

and rely solely on 'religious' authorities. and these authorities on their part base their interpretations (not all of them) on misguided ideals. for a muslim to 'go to war', he/she must do it after an injuction given by a religious figure who is both pious and know the rulings well.

Jihad is not dependent on one man.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ;

muslim bros and sis - tell me if this is right : there is no where in the Quran the 'stoning' of adulterers is stated

:sl:

Wrong bro it was done during the time of the prophet, he him self even allowed it after a women came forward and requested to be stoned.....

--- I did not find any verse of stoning in Quran.

May be , it took place ' before the revealation of that specific verse where punishment is lashing and not the stoning ?

So, i think, before any specific punishment was prescribed in Quran, the holy Prophet (p) followed the previous punishment.......pl. remember , it's only my opinion.

Anybody knows , except that one / 2 incidents , any more stoning took place specially after the revealtion of lashing?

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam

no worries sis :D
tc
:w:

Thank you :p

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

It's post #113 (page 8) sis :)

thank u sis :statisfie

actually i was looking for my post where i explained to the bro why i misunderstood him. Sometimes, posts don't appear here ....may be , something is wrong with my compu

[ashara]

:sl:

Wrong bro it was done during the time of the prophet, he him self even allowed it after a women came forward and requested to be stoned.

your source pls. cause this is the first time i've seen this.

Jihad is not dependent on one man.

yes - jihad by itself is a struggle against vain desires and anger. every individual takes on this inner struggle to be better muslims in everyday life. but declaring war against another group of people can't be done by every other person. to be just is a prerogative in any action taken by a muslim - and to fulfill that requirement one must have a clear understanding of the scripture especially regarding the laws as well as a knowledge of the socio-politic and financial situation the society is in (and by society i do not just mean the muslims but also the non-muslim to whom war is not allowed in Quran).
also , if i am not mistaken nowhere in the quran is jihad used directly in relation to war. but the arabic term for 'war' is used when talking about defending the right to worship one God.

[Malaikah]

:sl:

^Here:

With regard to one who is married, the hadd punishment is execution. It says in a hadeeth narrated by Imam Muslim in his Saheeh (3199) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For a married or previously-married person the punishment is one hundred lashes and stoning.”

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=23485&ln=eng

[IbnAbdulHakim]

also , if i am not mistaken nowhere in the quran is jihad used directly in relation to war. but the arabic term for 'war' is used when talking about defending the right to worship one God.

there are other words such as qitaal used, which indicate jihaad fi-sabilillaah, also whenever the words jihaad fi-sabilillaah are used it means fighting in the way of your lord. The literal meaning of jihaad is to strive/struggle but the islamic meaning given after islam was fight in the way of Allaah swt.

i got this from the talks of awlaki (if im mistaken please correct me inshaAllaah)

[FollowingAlhuda]

Islam supports nothing than it self!

The question has to be..
Are some muslims violent???

[north_malaysian]

Are some muslims violent???

Yes... and also ....

some Jews are violent too
some christians are violent too
some hindus are violent too
some atheists are violent too
some satanists are violent too ... etc.

[Akil]

Calling any religion a religion of peace is condescending. It’s like calling a retarded child a very special boy. As if we have to call Islam a religion of peace because it has a problem with violence.

I agree with the poster that said that Islam is a religion of justice. However the deen itself can and has been twisted unrecognizable by those who would use it as a means of control.

No religion has a monopoly on violence.

[Pygoscelis]

While there are pacifists and violent monsters within most religions, I don't think its fair to equate them all as "equally prone to violence". Can you imagine a violent sector of the Jain religion? :)

[lolwatever]

^ wats the pacificsts and monsters to do with the religion itself :?

The question is, is Islam a Violent religion, Akil gave a good reply.... it's a religion of justice, not violence.

Violence is a very very very very very very emotionally loaded term... you can't say a soldier is being violent when he tries to subdue a rebel innit? atleast not in the negative sense of the term.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ;

While there are pacifists and violent monsters within most religions, I don't think its fair to equate them all as "equally prone to violence". Can you imagine a violent sector of the Jain religion? :)

to be honest , i dont know much about Jain/Jainism. Most probably , there are very few Jains in the world if u compare their population with Muslims.

Islam is the fastest growing religion........ u will see Muslims almost everywhere. I don't think , we will see many Jains except in India or few other places.

Anyway , Media don't relate religion with crime unless s/he is a Muslim...that's the problem.


If any Jain does anything wrong , media won't say that his/her holy book is responsible for that. Media never relate religion with Hitler..... It's the double standard of the media.....u won't find any Jew or Christian terrorist ever... ..get the point ?

[Pygoscelis]

Salaam/peace ;



to be honest , i dont know much about Jain/Jainism. Most probably , there are very few Jains in the world if u compare their population with Muslims.

I used Jainism as an example because they are extreme pacifists. These are the people who will not kill a fly because it would be morally wrong to them to do so. THe more hard core you become as a Jain, the more of a pacifist you become. I don't think it would be possible to interpret Jainism in such a way as to lead somebody to violence (as people have done with Islam and Christianity).

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace to u & all;

I used Jainism as an example because they are extreme pacifists. These are the people who will not kill a fly because it would be morally wrong to them to do so. THe more hard core you become as a Jain, the more of a pacifist you become. I don't think it would be possible to interpret Jainism in such a way as to lead somebody to violence (as people have done with Islam and Christianity).

I used Jainism as an example because they are extreme pacifists. These are the people who will not kill a fly because it would be morally wrong to them to do so

----Islam does not encourage to sit idle when something needs to be done. It's allowed to punish criminals i.e death penalty but unnecessary , we must not harm a single tree.

[SilentObserver]

I don't know about Islam the religion. But I do know that there are a number of muslims that are violent, or at least support violence. Many are peaceful too.
On this very forum we have people that openly support the terrorizing and killing of the children at Beslan school. People that say that they hope that their child will be killed in jihad so that they can be proud. How selfish. To satisfy their pride.
With every kind of violent topic, we have people here that support that violence. The excuses are pathetic.

Look at members like Muezzin and Woodrow. They don't support violence as an answer for everything. Yet there are members here that claim that not supporting certain violent activity is unislamic.
Members that call imams that denounce violence "not muslims".

I don't know about islam itself. But I do know that there are many muslims that are violent.

[north_malaysian]

Yet there are members here that claim that not supporting certain violent activity is unislamic.

Someone called me unislamic when I eat the noodles using the chopsticks...:blind:

[north_malaysian]

you should include steve too ... his "suicide bombing" thread is awesome...

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

Someone called me unislamic when I eat the noodles using the chopsticks...:blind:

---i guess , may be they wanted to say , it's Sunnah to eat food by hand. So , some people try to encourage us to follow Sunnah but may be their approach is not so good :cry:

I dont think ,anything is wrong if u use chopsticks....Geee. i tried once.....very hard :p

[SilentObserver]

Someone called me unislamic when I eat the noodles using the chopsticks...:blind:

What?! LOL! Why would they say that was unislamic?!

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ;

I don't know about Islam the religion. But I do know that there are a number of muslims that are violent, or at least support violence. Many are peaceful too.
On this very forum we have people that openly support the terrorizing and killing of the children at Beslan school. People that say that they hope that their child will be killed in jihad so that they can be proud. How selfish. To satisfy their pride.
With every kind of violent topic, we have people here that support that violence. The excuses are pathetic.

Look at members like Muezzin and Woodrow. They don't support violence as an answer for everything. Yet there are members here that claim that not supporting certain violent activity is unislamic.
Members that call imams that denounce violence "not muslims".

I don't know about islam itself. But I do know that there are many muslims that are violent.

---Many non-Muslims are also violent. What about Hitler ? I never heard/read any such statement that because of Hitler , all Christians are bad , bible should be banned etc. But , media & others criticise Islam because of few/some bad Muslims.


Beslan school tragedy is horrible. During the time of the Last Prophet (p) , Muslim gave good foods to war prisoners , they walked & prisoners rode on camels etc. It was heart breaking to know that those kids were without food , water......no Muslim should support such act. I agree , Muslims are opressed in many countries but kids or innocent civilians must not pay for it.

Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition." (An-Nahl: 90)

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not do aggression, for Allah loves not the aggressors. Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities.......


If u want , i can post some Fatwa on Jihad .

[Malaikah]

On this very forum we have people that openly support the terrorizing and killing of the children at Beslan school. People that say that they hope that their child will be killed in jihad so that they can be proud. How selfish. To satisfy their pride.

And we have members on this forum who insist on twisting the words of others to make what is a wonderful, selfless, motherly gesture filled with wisdom and love for the best for her son, into something that is clearly isn't!

:raging:

[One Man Army]

I dont like the concept of seeing humanity as believers and non believers. seeing people as inferior as they do not agree with what you say. i think truth is in the person that sees all as equal, and the positives in each and every person:

First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.
From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad?
O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt
The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places.
The clay is the same, but the Fashioner has fashioned it in various ways.
There is nothing wrong with the pot of clay - there is nothing wrong with the Potter. ||2||
The One True Lord abides in all; by His making, everything is made.
Whoever realizes the will of His Command, knows the One Lord. He alone is said to be the Lord's slave. ||3||

[Malaikah]

^Why does calling a person a non-believe make them seem inferior? It is just a title that comes around as a consequence of the need to refer to people who are not Muslim collectively. It's just a word.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Also, its not just Muslims who say non believers. Unfortunately we're just popular right now.

[Pygoscelis]

^^Also, its not just Muslims who say non believers. Unfortunately we're just popular right now.

I don't think its the meaning "non believer". I don't thin its the word itself. I think its the way the word is used by some muslims, who use it in the context implying inferiority or less importance.

[SilentObserver]

---Many non-Muslims are also violent. What about Hitler ? I never heard/read any such statement that because of Hitler , all Christians are bad , bible should be banned etc.

What does this part of your post mean? What do violent non-muslims, hitler and christians have to do with what I said?

[SilentObserver]

And we have members on this forum who insist on twisting the words of others to make what is a wonderful, selfless, motherly gesture filled with wisdom and love for the best for her son, into something that is clearly isn't!

:raging:

Who would do such a thing? How terrible.

(I know what is best for you son. Go get shot in the head by an assault rifle. I will be happy and proud of you.)

[Malaikah]

Grow up. No one is talking about putting little kids on the battle field.

[lolwatever]

Who would do such a thing? How terrible.

(I know what is best for you son. Go get shot in the head by an assault rifle. I will be happy and proud of you.)

plus.. no muslim ever said that. :offended:

so stop purposefully distroting things and making naive statements like that.

[SilentObserver]

Grow up. No one is talking about putting little kids on the battle field.

I never said that. Did you?

[lolwatever]

^ lil boy is still a son. not? and its not wild to assume that if you're able to even make wilder distorted claims..

[SilentObserver]

^ lil boy is still a son. not? and its not wild to assume that if you're able to even make wilder distorted generalizations..

Please elaborate.

[Malaikah]

I never said that. Did you?

Then stop implying that we said that! If he wants to go and fight when he is mature enough, to establish justice, then what is your problem? No one is forcing any one to do anything!

You think that the mother will be HAPPY to see her son die?! She is going to hate it, the worst thing for a mother is to see her children suffer and die, it will tear her heart in to. And you REALLY think she selfishly wants to see her son die for her own pride? Or is it for the well being of her son?

[lolwatever]

Please elaborate.

my point is obvious.

y r u questioning malaikah's post, its not like you where specific in your insane claim.

[SilentObserver]

my point is obvious.

y r u questioning malaikah's post, its not like you where specific in your insane claim.

No you're point is not obvious. What was it?
in particular this part;

and its not wild to assume that if you're able to even make wilder distorted generalizations

[lolwatever]

where did you specify that "son" excludes lil kids.

and your claim:

(I know what is best for you son. Go get shot in the head by an assault rifle. I will be happy and proud of you.)

assuming ur putting that in the mouth of a Muslim, then you're making up a lie.

no muslim ever said that. :offended:

[SilentObserver]

where did you specify that "son" excludes lil kids.

Because I didn't specifically exclude little kids, I must be talking about little kids? This is pointless.

Some people encourage children to engage in violence, and even some for suicide attacks. That is wrong.

Some don't.

enough said.

[Malaikah]

^No one encouraging kids to be violent or suicide bombers! Please show anyone here who said that?! So when ever Muslims talk about defending themselves or going for 'jihad', they are automatically the evil ones, the violent ones, the terrorists?

Now it seems I have had some insight into the way journalists twist things to make the person look bad. :mmokay:

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Thread Closed.