PDA

View Full Version : Can someone please clarify???



Angelzz
01-15-2007, 04:54 PM
Salam Alaykum Brothers and sisters,

I have a question which i need confirmed, as i have been talking with a catholic sister and i dont want to confuse her or myself.

The reason humanity is here in this dunya is because of Adam's disobeidence to Allah otherwise there would be no humanity and only Adam and Eve in jannah? im sure this is correct but i needed it confirmed from islamic view.

Wasaalams
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Skillganon
01-16-2007, 01:47 PM
Anyone wan't to answer this?
Reply

skhalid
01-16-2007, 01:50 PM
I think its right!!!!
I'll check with my sources...to confirm it!!!
Reply

rubiesand
01-16-2007, 06:11 PM
I'm inclined to disagree with that idea. Here is a quotation from the Quran where Allah (swt) is speaking to the angels before Adam and Huwa ever did any wrong.


And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not. (2:30)


From this I would say that it was the plan of Allah (swt) to place man on the earth even from before Adam was created, and we are not here as a punishment for some sin or mistake, but we are here so that we may be tested before we return to our Creator. But, Allahu alim.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
FBI
01-16-2007, 06:15 PM
:sl:

No that is incorrect, the first thing allah ever created was a pen and told it to write events from then till the day of judgment, it was all destined.
Reply

limitless
01-16-2007, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by FBI
:sl:

No that is incorrect, the first thing allah ever created was a pen and told it to write events from then till the day of judgment, it was all destined.

Do you have evidence to back that statement up?
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
01-16-2007, 10:32 PM
It is reported on the authority of `Ubadah Ibn As-Samit (ra ) that he said to his son: "Oh, son! You will never taste true faith until you know that whatever afflicts you would not have missed you, and whatever has missed you would never have come to you. I heard the Messenger of Allah (saas ) say: "The first thing Allah (swt ) created was the pen; He commanded it to write. It said: "My Rabb! What shall I write?" He said: "Write down what has been ordained for all things until the establishment of the Hour." Oh, my son! I heard Allah's Messenger (saas ) say: "Whoever dies believing something other than this does not belong to me."

In another narration by Imam Ahmad, it was reported: "Verily, the first thing which Allah (swt ), Most High, created was the pen, and He said to it: "Write;" and in that very hour all what was to occur (was written) up to the Day of Resurrection." In another version from Ibn Wahab, it was said: "Allah's Messenger (saas ) said: "Whoever disbelieved in Al-Qadr, the good and the bad of it, will be burnt in the Hell-fire."

Note:

Which was created first, the Throne or the pen? It has been said that it was the Throne by some and by others it was said the pen. Those who said the pen cited as proof the above Hadith, understanding the word `pen' to be the object of the verb `created,' while those who said that the Throne was created first cited as evidence a number of authentic Ahadith which support this view. The latter group would therefore understand the first Hadith to say: "Verily, directly after creating the pen, Allah (swt ) commanded it to write..."
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-16-2007, 10:34 PM
^^Wow, that's interesting.
Reply

Kidman
01-16-2007, 10:45 PM
Allah is all-knowing.. why would He need/want a pen to write everything down?

Kidman
Reply

lolwatever
01-26-2007, 07:13 AM
^ He is the almighty and able to do whatever he wants/pleases.

Just like he assigned two angels to us to record our bad deeds (even though he knows what we're doing without the angels watch), he also decided to command a pen to write the events that will happen.

There's alot of wisdom from that, because if we're jsut told that 'Allah knows wats gonna happen'... it wont' have the same affect as knowing that 'everything has been written down and decreed fully', that way we'll have more certainty that we should do our best and be content with whatever Allah ahs decreed.

same with the angels... knwoing that there's a watchguard makes us even more aware of our actions, human nature is made more aware when they know that something 'physical' is present... just like a camera would make people more 'on guard' (even in terms of keeping away from embaressing habits etc) compared to when its absent...

all the best
salamz :)
Reply

'Abd al-Baari
01-26-2007, 08:06 AM
salams
interesting thread but i thought that Allah SWT wanted mankind to live in Jannah but due to the mistakes of Hazrat Adam AS and Hazrat Hawa AS he set them to earth as a test
Reply

lolwatever
01-26-2007, 08:10 AM
Originally Posted by Abdullah2907
salams
interesting thread but i thought that Allah SWT wanted mankind to live in Jannah but due to the mistakes of Hazrat Adam AS and Hazrat Hawa AS he set them to earth as a test
Whatever Allah wills happens, Allah knew that Adam was going to make the mistake, and so he SWT knew that we where going to be sent to earth and be entrsuted wtih taking care of it and obeying him as a test.

:w: :)
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-26-2007, 08:51 AM
I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)

&&

Originally Posted by Angelzz
Salam Alaykum Brothers and sisters,

I have a question which i need confirmed, as i have been talking with a catholic sister and i dont want to confuse her or myself.

The reason humanity is here in this dunya is because of Adam's disobeidence to Allah otherwise there would be no humanity and only Adam and Eve in jannah? im sure this is correct but i needed it confirmed from islamic view.

Wasaalams



&&&

There is a verse in Quran that says , I created men & Jinn to worship me alone.

So, I think , Allah wanted to establish us in this world so that we can obey Him.

Also , Prophet Adam (p) ''forgot'' the command ……so , is there any ‘soft’ word rather than disobedience ?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
01-26-2007, 10:03 AM
Sahih Bukhari

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 621:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'You are Adam whose mistake expelled you from Paradise.' Adam said to him, 'You are Moses whom Allah selected as His Messenger and as the one to whom He spoke directly; yet you blame me for a thing which had already been written in my fate before my creation?"' Allah's Apostle said twice, "So, Adam overpowered Moses."




I really dont think its right to say that its because of Adam AS that we are all in this test instead of heaven, rather it is because Allaah in his divine wisdome willed.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
01-26-2007, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Abdullah2907
salams
interesting thread but i thought that Allah SWT wanted mankind to live in Jannah but due to the mistakes of Hazrat Adam AS and Hazrat Hawa AS he set them to earth as a test
:w:

Not true brother because Allaah says in the Qur'an:
2: 30. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (All�h) said: "I know that which you do not know."

Ibn Kathir says in his Tafsir regarding this verse:

(Verily, I am going to place a Khalifah on earth).
Meaning people reproducing generation after generation, century after century, just as Allah said,


[وَهُوَ الَّذِى جَعَلَكُمْ خَلَـئِفَ الاٌّرْضِ]


(And it is He Who has made you (Khala'if) generations coming after generations, replacing each other on the earth) (6:165),


[وَيَجْعَلُكُمْ حُلَفَآءَ الاٌّرْضِ]


(And makes you (Khulafa') inheritors of the earth) (27:62),


[وَلَوْ نَشَآءُ لَجَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ مَّلَـئِكَةً فِى الاٌّرْضِ يَخْلُفُونَ ]


(And if it were Our will, We would have (destroyed you (mankind all, and) made angels to replace you (Yakhlufun) on the earth.) (43: 60) and,
[فَخَلَفَ مِن بَعْدِهِمْ خَلْفٌ]


(Then after them succeeded an (evil) generation (Khalf)) (7:169). It appears that Allah was not refering to Adam specifically as Khalifah, otherwise he would not have allowed the angels' statement,


[أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَآءَ]


(Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood).


The angels meant that this type of creature usually commits the atrocities they mentioned. The angels knew of this fact, according to their understanding of human nature, for Allah stated that He would create man from clay. Or, the angels understood this fact from the word Khalifah, which also means the person who judges disputes that occur between people, forbidding them from injustice and sin, as Al-Qurtubi said.
The statement the angels uttered was not a form of disputing with Allah's, nor out of envy for the Children of Adam, as some mistakenly thought. Allah has described them as those who do not precede Him in speaking, meaning that they do not ask Allah anything without His permission. When Allah informed them that He was going to create a creation on the earth, and they had knowledge that this creation would commit mischief on it, as Qatadah mentioned, they said,


[أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَآءَ]


(Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood)


This is only a question for the sake of learning about the wisdom of that, as if they said, Our Lord! What is the wisdom of creating such creatures since they will cause trouble in the earth and spill blood "If the wisdom behind this action is that You be worshipped, we praise and glorify You (meaning we pray to You) we never indulge in mischief, so why create other creatures''


Allah said to the angels in answer to their inquiry,


[إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ]


(I know that which you do not know.) meaning, "I know that the benefit of creating this type of creature outweighs the harm that you mentioned, that which you have no knowledge of. I will create among them Prophets and send Messengers. I will also create among them truthful, martyrs, righteous believers, worshippers, the modest, the pious, the scholars who implement their knowledge, humble people and those who love Allah and follow His Messengers.''
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-30-2010, 01:45 PM
  2. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-02-2009, 01:14 AM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-19-2009, 03:23 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-03-2007, 01:11 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!