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jihaadu nafs
01-22-2007, 02:26 PM
What is the meaning of those who say deen is in my heart, without any outward actions? I.e. Shaving the beard, not wearing the hijaab??
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Re.TiReD
01-22-2007, 02:32 PM
:sl: yeah but once it's in the heart doesnt it work outwards? i.e. hijab, beard, manner of speaking, actions e.t.c I think Imaan must start in the heart, otherwise it's not sincere Allahu A'lam :w:
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Muezzin
01-22-2007, 04:43 PM
So if someone says the shahadah, prays, fasts and fulfils the other five pillars, they'll have wasted their time unless they have a beard or wear the hijab?
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Woodrow
01-22-2007, 04:57 PM
As a revert I find Islam to be a religion of continuous growth. We continue to find new challanges and as we fulfill one area we have the strength to continue onward. We begin simply with the Shahadah and for a while are comfortable in feeling that is truly being a Muslim. Then we begin to take our prayers seriously and again we feel, that is being a true Muslim next we start to practice the pillars to the best of our ability and so on through the rest of our life. As we age we never grow old as we always have future growth in front of us.

We have a very youthful religion. None of us will ever achieve old age in it as we will never stop learning and growing. We all age and grow at different rates.

A 12 year old with much to learn is just as much of a Muslim as the 90 year old scholar who knows and has done very much.


Deen has to be in our heart, as we will never complete it in our deeds and words.
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S_87
01-22-2007, 05:02 PM
:sl:

from what youve said excluding your ie part, you are describing the murjiahs? who are people that separate iman from actions..ie you only need to believe in Allah and your entrance to paradise is garaunteed no matter what your actions...

and Allah knows best
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Woodrow
01-22-2007, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

from what youve said excluding your ie part, you are describing the murjiahs? who are people that separate iman from actions..ie you only need to believe in Allah and your entrance to paradise is garaunteed no matter what your actions...

and Allah knows best
Far from that. High Iman is going to guarantee a person does actions. How can a person seperate Iman from deeds? When the 2 become seperate the Iman is not there. But, we are individuals and we all have limitations we can only achieve what we are capable of knowing and physicaly able to do, and with those tools our Iman will demand we do the best we can. we do not know why some people do not do some of the external, visible things. But, if they are not done because of limitations, perhaps the person is doing the best he can.

Using myself as an example. I look odd because I do not have a beard at my age. However, because of my ethnic back ground I can not grow a beard. Best I can do is a scraggly mustache and we are supposed to keep that trimmed off.
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S_87
01-22-2007, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Far from that. High Iman is going to guarantee a person does actions. How can a person seperate Iman from deeds? When the 2 become seperate the Iman is not there. .
:sl:

i wasnt stating my opinion i was stating what the murjiahs believe and that is
iman and actions are separate and one needs to only believe...
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Fishman
01-22-2007, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by jihaadu nafs
What is the meaning of those who say deen is in my heart, without any outward actions? I.e. Shaving the beard, not wearing the hijaab??
:sl:
Deen means way of life, it's not about the heart. But it depends on the heart quite a lot. If you don't have the pure intentions, growing a beard or wearing Hijab is pointless. But if you do willingly choose not to do outward things like have a beard, then you do not have pure intentions.
:w:
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habiibti
01-22-2007, 07:53 PM
Assalamu aleikum

How can one separate iman from actions? There are millions who have said da shahada but do nothing to enforce it.I mean yes intention is important but without action u got nothing on da other hand an action without da intention is useless.
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Bint Abdusattar
01-22-2007, 11:29 PM
:sl:
The word 'deen' is Arabic and actually means 'Way of life' rather than 'religeon'. So from this we should understand that Islam should be in our hearts, our behaviour and our looks. if something is in the heart and not being reflected in out physical life, then what is the point of having that thing in the heart? That thing in the heart cannot be serious then can it?
:w:
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
01-23-2007, 12:07 AM
:sl:

Imaan composes of beliefs and actions. You'll notice in the Qur'an whenever Allaah mentions Iman, he will mention good deeds along with it because the two are insperatable. How can one claim to be a muslim and not practice the religion?

47: 2. But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad (SAW), for it is the truth from their Lord, He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state.
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AabiruSabeel
01-23-2007, 12:04 PM
:sl:

حدثنا أبو نعيم حدثنا زكرياء عن عامر قال سمعت النعمان بن بشير يقول سمعت رسول الله صلى اللهم عليه وسلم يقول الحلال بين والحرام بين وبينهما مشبهات لا يعلمها كثير من الناس فمن اتقى المشبهات استبرأ لدينه وعرضه ومن وقع في الشبهات كراع يرعى حول الحمى يوشك أن يواقعه ألا وإن لكل ملك حمى ألا إن حمى الله في أرضه محارمه ألا وإن في الجسد مضغة إذا صلحت صلح الجسد كله وإذا فسدت فسد الجسد كله ألا وهي القلب
Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'Both legal and illegal things are evident but in between them there are doubtful (suspicious) things and most of the people have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from these suspicious things saves his religion and his honor. And whoever indulges in these suspicious things is like a shepherd who grazes (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is His illegal (forbidden) things. Beware! There is a piece of flesh in the body if it becomes good (reformed) the whole body becomes good but if it gets spoilt the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 49

In Islam, we have to proclaim by the tongue, Believe by heart and display by the actions.

:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-23-2007, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by jihaadu nafs
What is the meaning of those who say deen is in my heart, without any outward actions? I.e. Shaving the beard, not wearing the hijaab??
i think those who say that are lazy (astagfirullaah)

but its like saying:

ye man i said it, i feel it, u cant see it, but i got it, you dont think so? prove it, its in my heart, i dont have to show you, now go away while i drink this beer... astagfirullaah!!
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Malaikah
01-23-2007, 01:38 PM
:sl:

Iman increases by doing good deeds and decreases by sinning. How then can a person have high iman if they do no actions?

Honestly, people who say that outward actions are not important have a lot to learn about Islam!
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MinAhlilHadeeth
01-23-2007, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
So if someone says the shahadah, prays, fasts and fulfils the other five pillars, they'll have wasted their time unless they have a beard or wear the hijab?
:salamext:

The obligation of the Muslim is more than the arkaan ul islam. Both the growing of the beard for men and wearing hijab for women is fardh. Unless one repents, you will be held accountable for that unless Allah bestows His Mercy and Forgiveness upon you.
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ABWAN
01-23-2007, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by jihaadu nafs
What is the meaning of those who say deen is in my heart, without any outward actions? I.e. Shaving the beard, not wearing the hijaab??
Salam,
Good question. As someone pointed out, its a step by step process. Iman doesnt come all of a sudden, it kinda grows into you.

But I believe you have missed the other part of the question, which is - What to do with those who merely portray themselves as muslims outwardly, while they aren't sound enough inside? Like, I have come across so many, who have a beard and act islamically, while they lie, act selfishly and do all kinds of things that wouldnt necessarily reflect their iman and make you doubt it.

The real answer, IMO, is that neither you nor me have the right to decide on anything about them. There is a hadith (not sure if its authentic) that says that the first person who would enter hell is a shaheed, who died just to show off. The next would be a scholar who did everything for fame and the next would be a Hafiz(of course being a muslim, they would, at some point enter Heaven through the mercy of Allah). So if this is the case for such people, how can we decide anything about anyone, if we know for sure that Allah is the best judge?
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Umar001
01-23-2007, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
So if someone says the shahadah, prays, fasts and fulfils the other five pillars, they'll have wasted their time unless they have a beard or wear the hijab?
Well ignorance is not an escuse for people who are in a muslim community and general things.

So if one does not wear hijab, and they pray, then will their prayer be accepted?

So then if their prayers are not accepted then will they keep being muslim?

Also, for those thinking about Eeman,

heres something:

Al Eeman is the testification of the tongue, belief in the heart, and actions of the limbs. It increases with obedience and decreases with dsiobidience.

Taken from Beneficial Speech In Establishing The Evidences Of Tawheed, By By Shaykh Muhammad Bin Abdil-Wahhaab Al-Wasaabee.
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-23-2007, 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
So if someone says the shahadah, prays, fasts and fulfils the other five pillars, they'll have wasted their time unless they have a beard or wear the hijab?
do you think its alright to pick and mix islam :?
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Muezzin
01-23-2007, 05:15 PM
I don't want to get into a debate. All I'm saying is we shouldn't judge people on their outward appearances. For instance, when a good friend of mine told me Zidane (the soccer player, for those who don't know) was Muslim, I scoffed and sarcastically said that he wasn't doing a very good job of it, drinking and everything. My friend then said, 'Dude, if you say the shahadah, you're Muslim. It's not for us to judge'. The more I thought about it, the more I realised he was right. In my university for example, certain bearded Muslim males seemingly have no problem with flirting with girls, and certain hijabis see no problem with flirting with boys and wearing tight clothing.

I'm not saying that everyone who has a beard or wear a headscarf is secretly a bad Muslim or something. I'm just saying don't assume that people who do not have beards or do not wear the hijaab must be bad Muslims in some way.
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- Qatada -
01-23-2007, 05:19 PM
:salamext:


Na'am, we cant judge a book by its cover but at the same time by doing good deeds and obeying Allaah and His messenger (peace be upon him) makes one grow in emaan. And Allaah knows best.
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FBI
01-23-2007, 05:50 PM
:sl:

It's not judging it's advising, I don't get why people get so defense when people state the obvious, it was only due to the fact that allah sent two friends of mine to be blunt with me about my ex jahil life that I actually started practasing so I'd consider my self a revert cause before I'd only know allah by name that's it, I wish I had people on my case 24/7 to keep me in check cause that's the sign of true friendship, so when a person tells u your doing something wrong don't get all defense say alhamdulilah they actually care cause they'd be doing you more harm to watch u go astary.
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Muezzin
01-23-2007, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by FBI
:sl:

It's not judging it's advising, I don't get why people get so defense when people state the obvious, it was only due to the fact that allah sent two friends of mine to be blunt with me about my ex jahil life that I actually started practasing so I'd consider my self a revert cause before I'd only know allah by name that's it, I wish I had people on my case 24/7 to keep me in check cause that's the sign of true friendship, so when a person tells u your doing something wrong don't get all defense say alhamdulilah they actually care cause they'd be doing you more harm then watch u go astary.
Thing is, bluntness can push people away from Islam too.
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FBI
01-23-2007, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Thing is, bluntness can push people away from Islam too.
I don't mean in a harsh manner but in a gentle way but straight to the point.
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Muezzin
01-23-2007, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by FBI
I don't mean in a harsh manner but in a gentle way but straight to the point.
I agree with you. I wish more people thought that way. Unfortunately, I tend to witness a lot of 'pot calling the kettle black' behaviour in real life, so I've become somewhat jaded.
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- Qatada -
01-23-2007, 06:06 PM
:salamext:


We should follow the example of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) and explain to people politely that what they're doing is not always the right thing. For example we know the incident of the man who urinated in the masjid, and the other companions were about to hit him, but the Prophet (peace be upon him) told them to let him finish, then he calmly told him that what he did was wrong.

That companion learnt a good lesson and benefitted more from the kindness than harm.


There's a hadith of the Messenger of Allaah;

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

Al-Miqdam ibn Shurayh, quoting his father, said: I asked Aisha about living in the desert. She said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to go to the desert to these rivulets. Once he intended to go to the desert and he sent to me a she-camel from the camel of sadaqah which had not been used for riding so far. He said to me: Aisha! show gentleness, for if gentleness is found in anything, it beautifies it and when it is taken out from anything it damages it.

Sahih Bukhari Book 41, Number 4790
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Malaikah
01-24-2007, 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by FBI
It's not judging it's advising, I don't get why people get so defense when people state the obvious, it was only due to the fact that allah sent two friends of mine to be blunt with me about my ex jahil life that I actually started practasing so I'd consider my self a revert cause before I'd only know allah by name that's it, I wish I had people on my case 24/7 to keep me in check cause that's the sign of true friendship, so when a person tells u your doing something wrong don't get all defense say alhamdulilah they actually care cause they'd be doing you more harm to watch u go astary.
:sl:

MashaAllah, not only that, but it is our duty to advice our fellow Muslims. :thumbs_up

Originally Posted by Muezzin
In my university for example, certain bearded Muslim males seemingly have no problem with flirting with girls, and certain hijabis see no problem with flirting with boys and wearing tight clothing.
All that means is that the hijabi girls/bearded guys are sinning by flirting, and the non-bearded/non hijabis are sinning by shaving and not wearing hijab.

They are both sinning, one group is just better than the other in one respect, and one is worse than the other in another respect. :rolleyes:
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-24-2007, 09:41 AM
its not about judging but i really dont want ANY brother or sister of this forum or anywhere to think that its ok to do only SOME of the obligatory. Wallah its obligatory upon the people to keep a beard and wear hijaab, its obligatory to stay away from haram. If these are not done then Allahu a'lam but they cant be seen as righteous.

Al-Madani told me that Umar RA said that when Quran was coming down to rasullulah saws we had wahi from Allaah swt therefore knew what was in the hearts of people, afterwards he had to go by what he saw of their character and islam! Therefore say when looking for a partner, you would NOT take someone without a beard or hijaab, right?
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Snowflake
01-24-2007, 10:18 AM
The good thing is that people who say they have imaan in their hearts, also have the potential to become good muslims. They describe the love they feel for Allah as imaan. In the majority of cases it is ignorance about the importance of implementing deen in their life that leads them to believe that loving Allah alone is acceptable. It is our duty to inform them and help them understand. We cannot and should not judge them. In their hearts they may be more thankful for Allah's blessings than some practicing muslims.


Volume 1, Book 2, Number 21:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "When the people of Paradise will enter Paradise and the people of Hell will go to Hell, Allah will order those who have had faith equal to the weight of a grain of mustard seed to be taken out from Hell. So they will be taken out but (by then) they will be blackened (charred). Then they will be put in the river of Haya' (rain) or Hayat (life) (the Narrator is in doubt as to which is the right term), and they will revive like a grain that grows near the bank of a flood channel. Don't you see that it comes out yellow and twisted"
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MinAhlilHadeeth
01-24-2007, 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I don't want to get into a debate. All I'm saying is we shouldn't judge people on their outward appearances. For instance, when a good friend of mine told me Zidane (the soccer player, for those who don't know) was Muslim, I scoffed and sarcastically said that he wasn't doing a very good job of it, drinking and everything. My friend then said, 'Dude, if you say the shahadah, you're Muslim. It's not for us to judge'. The more I thought about it, the more I realised he was right. In my university for example, certain bearded Muslim males seemingly have no problem with flirting with girls, and certain hijabis see no problem with flirting with boys and wearing tight clothing.

I'm not saying that everyone who has a beard or wear a headscarf is secretly a bad Muslim or something. I'm just saying don't assume that people who do not have beards or do not wear the hijaab must be bad Muslims in some way.
:wasalamex

Yeah that's true. Hijabis may backbite etc etc, but I didn't say that hijab and beard makes you perfect, it's just fardh. And maybe we shouldn't judge the bearded brothers and hijabi sisters who flirt either. One who fulfils one part of the deen may struggle with another.

There's a difference between someone who says 'InshaAllah I'll wear hijab one day, I pray Allah gives me the strength' and someone who says 'Why should I wear hijab? I don't think it's necessary. Deen is in the heart.'

An obligation is an obligation, whether it's lowering the gaze or growing a beard for brothers. Although I do agree with your statements about the etiquette of naseeha. Too many people are way too rough with their naseeha today.
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jihaadu nafs
01-26-2007, 11:35 AM
People who say that the deen is in their heart and yet don’t do any actions of worship, are those who don’t like to practice the deen so they hide behind the fact that the deen is in the heart. This is wrong and comes from kufr. Because if the deen is in the heart then this will reflect outwardly. I don’t understand how the deen will be on some ones heart if they don’t say it by their tongue and the actions are not in their limbs.

Islam is built on five pillars.
You must believe in the heart and do the actions in limbs, as Islam is outwardly and inwardly.

How can the heart be sound if you don’t do the action that purifies such Tawheed, salaat, siyaamm, dua and all other forms of worship which Allah SWA has commanded us with.


Hassan al basari one of the great tabee’ii, said imaan is not something you wear, but rather imaan is in the heart and actions of the limbs.

Imam shafee’e said imaan is the believe in the heart and actins of the limbs

Imam bukharee said, people of imaan are above one another according to the actions they do.

from here we can see imaan is both inwardly and out wardly actions
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
01-27-2007, 05:54 PM
Other cling to the notion of irja' (false hope), claiming that faith is merely affirmation, and that deeds are neither a part of faith nor have any effect upon it. According to their claim, the iman of the most sinful of believers is just like the iman of the angels Gabriel and Michael.

[Ibn Qayyim in Al-Jawab al-Kafi li-man sa'al `an al-Dawa' al-Shafi]

Read the rest here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/638476-post58.html



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Re.TiReD
01-31-2007, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
So if someone says the shahadah, prays, fasts and fulfils the other five pillars, they'll have wasted their time unless they have a beard or wear the hijab?
well yeah...for those people who know that the hijab and beard are fardh...wont have wasted their time but you cannot say Imaan is just in the heart...it should be seen on the outside too. :w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-31-2007, 02:20 PM
beard is waajib sis... unless wajib and fardh are the same :?


its a sin to leave out waajib acts so beards must be kept.
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Re.TiReD
01-31-2007, 02:22 PM
:sl: near enough bro...

but I was just making a point tho about the title....In my opinion deen IS in the heart...that's where it starts but it cannot ONLY be in the heart...because you should be able to tell a Muslim through his/her character, manner of speaking, modesty and dress.... :w:
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