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mary
07-10-2005, 07:54 PM
salam bro and sis,

My sister who is 14 years old is creating a power point presentation on palestine. Her aim is to show her class mates what the history and current issues are from a palestinian point of view. A jewish girl is also creating a presentation from an israeli point of view. It is becoming a heated debate and the issue of suicide bombers is a very difficult one to solve :confused: as we condemn it aswe are in the uk, but in palestine the feelings are different as only Allah knows the intention for a palestinian to committ suicide. I say Allah knows best.

If there is anyone Palestinian who can help us out we would really appreciate it. :) If u could provide any more insight on this we would really really appreciate it. As we alll know we can only pray for peace in this region by putting history in the past, however for this presentation we need to mention history in order to justify the existence of Palestinians in Palestine.

The jewish girl in her presentation mentioned that the jews deserve the land for the follwoing reasons:
. the jews have more festivals in the country and more important land marks whereas the muslims only have the dome of the rock. Does any one have an argument to defend this claim from a palestinian point of view?
.
The Arabs have all the support of the 9 or so countries across the African border that are Arabic; the Jews deserve to have America. The military equipment that they supply them with is not for harm, but for defence, Israel has to battle to keep herself fully-functional and the USA only help her out. Without Bush’s support Israel might have been surrendered to the Arabs long ago, he is just helping the Israelis keep what it rightfully theirs. does any one have an argument for this claim either?????

ide just like to say that its just a friendly presentation. after it there will be a class debate in the things mentioned in both presentations. Suicide bombing will be a key questioning subject for my sister so if any one has any points on view in the palestinian sicide bombings i'm open to opinions

:) thank you very much
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kadafi
07-10-2005, 08:55 PM
:sl: sister,

I would be more than glad to help you out.

Would you like me to list the reasons (related to historical events) that the land belongs to the Palestinians or the aggression commited by the IDF terrorists against the Palestinians? Or the massacres commited by the Zionists terrorists in the past?

:w:
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S_87
07-10-2005, 09:01 PM
:sl:
ok this link
www.palestinepics.jeeran.com inshaAllah you can find somethign there
and intifada.com

tomorrow if i get chance ill quickly write some stuff up :)
:w:
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mary
07-10-2005, 09:27 PM
Salam,
Thank u soooo much we really appreciate it!!!!!! And Kadafi i would really like it if u cud provide some detail into the terrorist acts of the zionists that push Palestinians to committing suicide. Even though its not politically right.... what can we as Muslims say about this.
The point abt Jewish people having more festivals and important landmarks? How can that be used 2 justify they have more right to live in Israel. Personally i think its a rubbish point! What is ur opinion on this view? Compared to Israeli support what do the Palestinains receive? The Jewish view on this is that Palestian has support from nine African countries one being Sudan??:S
Thank u......
Wasalam
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- Qatada -
07-10-2005, 10:05 PM
Assalam o alikum. this issue regarding suicide bombing has been discussed before in the forum so i will paste the link to that.

http://www.islamicboard.com/showthre...icide+bombings

Even though suicide bombing is haraam in Islam, most palestinians do it in desperation. Below i will paste Brother Hash's opinion why people do suicide bombing:

"there land has been invaded, and robed and occupied by the jews, there state of palestine has been erased and the illeagal state of Isreal formed, every day they are facing hardship, occipatipn, humilation, persecution, constant atrocities and genocide perpetrated against them. They have no army, no equipment, no tanks or helicopters, now there land is invaded, so it is fard ayn jihaad, they must fight, they must follow the command of the qur'aan and evict them from wee they have evicted us, also the command of Allaah to resisit, and fight for justice. So they have to fight back, and they are doing what they can, self sacrifical martdom operation bombing would not be neccassry if they weapons and equipment, and a army. If not this, what else, just siot back and disonbey Allaah? What is the alternative? Also, they are giving their life for the deen, sacrificing their lives for the cause, selling themselves for Allaah azzawajjaal so to speak, they are stirking terror in the hearts of the oppressers and the occupiers. Yes, one palestine is shaheed, martytered, the greatest honour, and someimes more than 10 or 20 of them are killed, dozens more wounded."


Its important to mention that Palestine was once a Muslim country but was taken over by the British and then passed over to the jews. You could mention that or even put the people in the class in a scenario and ask them to imagine being in they home. Someone comes to your house n kicks you out, they take away everything important and separate you from your family. Some time later they give your home that you had payed for and lived in for your whole life to someone you don't even know, and yet your left in the streets with no family, no food, no shelter. The people who have stolen your home treat you like dirt and you have no support because you have been separated from your family and friends because of them. She could even ask members of her class to voice their opinions to how they would feel in a situation like that,maybe even the teacher (because teachers are more mature n maybe even more sensitive [esp. females] to situations like that)

Start to explain how all this has gone on for generations - even a newborn child is born and facing that and maybe even dies and yet still there is no peace (this war has been going on since the 1940s or 60s) and how the media doesnt even show how much palestinians have died but when one israeli dies it is always mentioned on the media.

The total number of Palestinians killed by the Israeli army in the past 19 months is estimated to be 1,700 at least – it is impossible to be certain. The numbers of injured are reckoned to be at 34,000. There are only 3.2 million Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip

(source : http://www.palestinemonitor.org/upda...oll_rising.htm )

The main aim of this is to put the people in class into the Palestinians position and how they would feel to be tortured in their own homeland by someone who had no right over it in the first place.

You could even show some images to show how bad the Palestinians are being treated and again ask the people to put themselves in the position of getting chased by a tank or getting a gun pointed to your head by a massive army. Would you be ready to take them all on? That is how the Palestinians are feeling like right now.

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gallery/gallery.htm

I hope this helped...

may Allah (swt) grant us all jannah and help all the muslims in our this life, after life, and death.

ameen.
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kadafi
07-10-2005, 10:35 PM
The point abt Jewish people having more festivals and important landmarks? How can that be used 2 justify they have more right to live in Israel. Personally i think its a rubbish point! What is ur opinion on this view? Compared to Israeli support what do the Palestinains receive? The Jewish view on this is that Palestian has support from nine African countries one being Sudan??:S
Thank u......
Wasalam
:sl:

That is ludicrous to say the least.

Before the illegal state of Israel was created, the Zionists commited massacres in order to cite the Palestinians:

King David Massacre (1946)
Massacre at Baldat al-Shaikh (1947)
YEHIDA Massacre (1947)
KHISAS Massacre (1947)
QAZAZA Massacre (1947)
The Semiramis Hotel Massacre (1948)
Massacre at Dair Yasin (1948)
NASER AL-DIN Massacre (1948)
TANTURA Massacre (1948)
BEIT DARAS Massacre (1948)
DAHMASH MOSQUE Massacre (1948)
DAWAYMA Massacre (1948)
HOULA Massacre (1948)
Salha Massacre (1948)

Remember, these are between '46 and '48. I haven't listed the pre-1946 and post 1948 massacres.

As for the Partition Plan (the plan to divide Palestine) proposed in '47, the Palestinians rejected it because it was unfair.

The Partition Plan granted the Jews 55% of Palestine who at that time only comprised comprised only 28-30 percent of the population and only owned 6 percent of the land whilst the Palestinians owned the rest of the land. Furthermore, the Jews were allocated territory that included the coastal plain stretching from Akka to Ashdod and other fertile lands, while the Palestinians, who were mainly an agricultural people, were left with mountainous and arid regions.

Once the Israeli State was created (by force), the Palestinians were forced to flee from their homes whilst some of them were pushed in to the sea. This happend when Palestinians were driven into the sea at Jaffa late in April 1948. With land routes cut off by Zionist forces, tens of thousands from the Palestinian city of Jaffa and neighbouring villages fled by boat to Gaza and Egypt; scores were drowned.

In the late eighties, the Palestinians got tired of this conflict and have tried all possible means to get their land back so they reconigzed Israel's right to exist in '88 and re-iterated in '93 while Israel still failes to explicitly and formally recognize Palestine's right to exist.

The Camp David (in 2000) proposal again was an unfair proposal and in spite of that, the Palestinians still acted in good faith and pursued negotiations in order to reach a solution. However, Sharon after winnin' the election disconnected the negotiations and started the second intifada.

Unless Israel fully reconigzes the Palestine's right to exist, there will never be a solution.

Palestinians have acted in good faith for the last 50 years but Israel still continues to offer sham proposals.


Originally Posted by mary
And Kadafi i would really like it if u cud provide some detail into the terrorist acts of the zionists that push Palestinians to committing suicide. Even though its not politically right.... what can we as Muslims say about this.
As for suicidebombing. It is clearly prohibited in Islam and leads to Hell-Fire. I strongly condemn if it targets innocent civilians. The whole issue of suicide-bombing is against the rulings of Islaam. Our Palestinian brethen have suffered for decades but resorting to suicide-bombing is still wrong. If they had patience and never despaired of Allaah's Mercy, surely Allaah would have helped them.

“Do not despair of Allah's mercy.” (Yusuf: 87)

“And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the steadfast, who say, when a misfortune striketh them: Lo! To Allah we belong and unto Him we are returning.” (Al-Baqarah: 155-56)”

But in the end, Allaah knows best.

If you need more elobration, please ask.

:w:
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mary
07-11-2005, 12:03 PM
Aqib, Kadafi and Amani thank u sooo much!!! :P

I'll put ur points to my sis and are help her through it... If we need any more suggestions or help we will keep u notified!
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S_87
07-11-2005, 12:17 PM
:sl:

mention the injustice of the wall- how the world court ordered it illegal but the because of the arrogance of the zionists they still put it up and in the full glare of the world yet nothing happened to them. imagine other countires defying the world court etc.
http://www.diak.org/images/Israel's%20Separation%20Wall%20(1).jpg
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Nablus
07-11-2005, 03:15 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/hero/hollypal1/PalHistory.html

this site is good:
http://www.ourpalestine.org/




best ragards
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Bittersteel
07-11-2005, 04:45 PM
please don't forget the fact that Israelites called Mohammad(PBUH) a pig.Go to Aljazeerah.info and also that israelites have detained a six month old baby along with her mother.
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mary
07-11-2005, 06:19 PM
I am going to attach a powerpoint presentation that my sis has created.Take a look and giv us ur feedbac with any suggestions .

Thank u :)
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mary
07-11-2005, 06:21 PM
okay sorry it wont attach neva mind ;)
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mary
07-12-2005, 12:52 PM
Salam brothers and sisters,

My sister has another question she would like to ask regarding her palestinian presentation. Is the "wailing wall" one of the Four walls surrounding the Al_Aqsa mosque or one of the 10 gates protecting the Al_Aqsamosque?

thank you !
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mary
07-12-2005, 01:28 PM
I have one last question my sister would like to know regarding the history of Palestine. This is the Jewish point of view on Abraham:

The Jewish religion, like the Islamic religion, originated from Abraham, he was the father of both religions, one of his sons being the father of the Islamic religion (Ishmael), and the other being the father of the Jewish nation (Isaac). Jews would claim that Isaac (the father of the Jewish nation) was Abrahams only legitimate son, and therefore Abrahams land should belong to Isaac’s people (the Jews). Ishmael, although being the first born son, came from an Egyptian Arab girl who was Abraham’s wife’s slave- Abraham was told that Sarah (his wife) could not conceive children so he decided to make a child another way, after having Ishmael, God blessed Abraham with a miracle- Isaac. Isaac was the legitimate son and the son that Abraham was intended to have by God. Isaac was the Miracle, and Ishmael was just the speed bump in Abraham’s faith along the way. The Holy land was meant for Abraham, and Isaac was the rightful heir to Abrahams throne as the father of a great nation, therefore Israel belongs to the Jews.

Is their any similarity in the Muslim view of Ibrahim and when Ibrahim (as) was alive did he follow the correct form of Judaism since the relgion Islam had not yet come to path when he was alive?

thanks v much :D
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Bittersteel
07-12-2005, 01:50 PM
Jews were the chosen people but they broke their covenant with God.
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mary
07-12-2005, 03:38 PM
ok thanks............
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- Qatada -
07-12-2005, 04:57 PM
EDIT
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- Qatada -
07-12-2005, 05:11 PM
I'm not completely sure about this but the source is: http://www.---------------/pro-life.html (4th paragraph)
i hope it helps and if somone doesnt find it reliable please mention it. jazak Allah

Muslims consider Abraham the founder of Islam, as their holy book, the Quran teaches (Quran 22:78). Abraham received all the rituals of Islam: the contact prayers (prayers to make contact with God by reciting specific words of His five times a day), the obligatory charity (2.5% of income), the fasting (Ramadan), and the pilgrimage (Hajj). The prophet Muhammad was commanded to follow the steps of Abraham (Quran 16:123). The annual pilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi Arabia, is only mandatory for those Muslims who can afford it (physically and financially). The days of the pilgrimage are spent in commemorating God and performing certain rituals inherited from Abraham. The pilgrimage is also a reminder of the life, struggle, and sacrifice of Abraham when he lived in this area. Abraham built a house of worship in Mecca, which is the focal point of the annual gathering of the pilgrims. The site of that house of worship, called Kaaba, had been maintained by descendants of Abraham, although at the time of Muhammad it had become corrupt and paganized.[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]Is their any similarity in the Muslim view of Ibrahim and when Ibrahim (as) was alive did he follow the correct form of Judaism since the relgion Islam had not yet come to path when he was alive?[/QUOTE]

Maybe the above shows that the Prophet Ibrahim wasn't like jews because they fulfilled all the duties of Islam eg. salaah and zakah n hajj n ramadhan. So this is diferent to the jews perspective.

I'm sorry if this doesn't answer what you were looking for. insh Allah i want your sister to beat that jew and let everyone know the truth. Allah (swt) is on our side not theirs
:D
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mary
07-13-2005, 09:02 PM
Hey bro and sis,

Just like to say thanks for your inofrmation you provided on palestine. My sister had her debate today and got a good response from everyone. The issue of suicide bombing was the only main problem given the last weeks events. With both points of view given on suicide bombing my sister managed to give a fair view for and against it. The teachers point of view on the suicide bobming in palestine is that it is wrong. He said:
" In the Quran it is wrong to hurt innocent people especially women and children.If that is what these bombers are doing then are they going against their own relgion. "

Her opponent (her jewish FRIEND) had a challenge on her hands. My sister with all you people's help managed to anwser back almost all of her points. I think the class were quite biased though seeing asthe terrorist attacks made them quite one sided sadly :confused:

So BIG up to you all !! hehehehe :applaud:

Thanks for the help (as the tesco advert says : every little helps ) Aren't i sad? (rhetorical question) :zip:
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Khattab
07-13-2005, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by mary
I have one last question my sister would like to know regarding the history of Palestine. This is the Jewish point of view on Abraham:

The Jewish religion, like the Islamic religion, originated from Abraham, he was the father of both religions, one of his sons being the father of the Islamic religion (Ishmael), and the other being the father of the Jewish nation (Isaac). Jews would claim that Isaac (the father of the Jewish nation) was Abrahams only legitimate son, and therefore Abrahams land should belong to Isaac’s people (the Jews). Ishmael, although being the first born son, came from an Egyptian Arab girl who was Abraham’s wife’s slave- Abraham was told that Sarah (his wife) could not conceive children so he decided to make a child another way, after having Ishmael, God blessed Abraham with a miracle- Isaac. Isaac was the legitimate son and the son that Abraham was intended to have by God. Isaac was the Miracle, and Ishmael was just the speed bump in Abraham’s faith along the way. The Holy land was meant for Abraham, and Isaac was the rightful heir to Abrahams throne as the father of a great nation, therefore Israel belongs to the Jews.

Is their any similarity in the Muslim view of Ibrahim and when Ibrahim (as) was alive did he follow the correct form of Judaism since the relgion Islam had not yet come to path when he was alive?

thanks v much :D
:sl: Alhamdulillah the One, Allah (SWT) has informed us in the Holy Quran.

"Ye people of the Book! why dispute ye about Abraham when the Law (Torah) and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have ye no understanding? Ah! ye are those who fell to disputing (even) in matters of which ye had some knowledge! but why dispute ye in matters of which ye have no knowledge? It is Allah Who knows and ye who know not! Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah's (which is Islam) and he joined not gods with Allah. Without doubt among men the nearest of kin to Abraham are those who follow him as are also this Apostle and those who believe; and Allah is the Protector of those who have faith."

:w:
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