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Muslim Woman
01-24-2007, 12:42 AM
I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)


&&&



Did you read Holy Quran ? What's ur opinion & why ?

(Specially for non-Muslims )


Greetings to our non-Muslims sisters & brothers .

I read a comment in another thread '' I'm not Muslim, and honestly, I'm not impressed with the Qur'an. I don't think it is "true" in the sense that the Christian Bible is true'' .



I want to know what & why non-Muslims think about Holy Quran. I request u to give ur opinion freely ( without using foul words , of course ) .

Also , pl. mention how many other holy Books u read & what u think about those holy Books ?


PS. Sis Tayyaba , sorry to steal img from ur post :hiding:
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tomtomsmom
01-24-2007, 12:57 AM
I have not read the whole thing but I have been doing research on Islam for almost 4 years. Growing up I was raised to belive in the Bible. It never really rang true for me though. I suppose it is because that over the years it has slowly but surely changed to suit what people want it to be. As far as the other comment you read, for me it is the exact opposite. I find much more truth in the Quran than any Bible I have seen.
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-24-2007, 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
I have not read the whole thing but I have been doing research on Islam for almost 4 years. Growing up I was raised to belive in the Bible. It never really rang true for me though. I suppose it is because that over the years it has slowly but surely changed to suit what people want it to be. As far as the other comment you read, for me it is the exact opposite. I find much more truth in the Quran than any Bible I have seen.
Salaam/peace;

thanks sis for ur quick reply :happy:


Will u pl. tell me how u r doing ur reseacrh on Islam ?

Do u have a copy of Quran ?

I forgot to mention in my post that if any non-Muslim wants to have a free copy of Quran or Islamic CD , there are few sites who will send u those.
Reply

tomtomsmom
01-24-2007, 01:17 AM
You are very welcome.
I reserch in one of two ways. First of all my husband is muslim so I ask him and then I do alot of internet research which led me here:)
I do have a copy of the Quran that is translated to English. I admit I have tried several times to read it but it makes my brain hurt. I find the explanations on-line to be very helpful though.
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Muslim Woman
01-24-2007, 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
You are very welcome.
I reserch in one of two ways. First of all my husband is muslim so I ask him and then I do alot of internet research which led me here:)
I do have a copy of the Quran that is translated to English. I admit I have tried several times to read it but it makes my brain hurt. I find the explanations on-line to be very helpful though.
Salaam/peace :happy:


Some translations are hard. I m giving u links where u will find translation in various languages & various translations ( not different versions ). Audio with translation is also available .


http://www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARA...AYAT/1/1_1.htm


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Turkish:
Rahman ve Rahim olan Allah'in Adiyla


French:
Au nom d'Allah, le Tout Miséricordieux, le Très Miséricordieux.


German:
Im Namen Allahs, des Gnädigen, des Barmherzigen.


Spanish:
¡En el nombre de Alá, el Compasivo, el Misericordioso!




Order your Free CD . . . .

If you are a non-Muslim living in USA or Canada and are interested in getting a copy of this CD, You can order it now for FREE

If you are a Muslim and would like to order a Free CD, for evaluation, please click here

http://journeytoislam.com


Our revert bro wrote : Did you know? –


1. The Quran is exactly the same today in the Arabic language as it was over 1,400 years ago.


2. Over NINE MILLION Muslims Memorized the Entire Quran.


3. 9,000,000 + Muslims living today have memorized the entire Quran in the original Arabic language. But surprisingly over 75% of all Muslims are not Arab.


4 .And did you know?


1,500,000,000 Muslims have memorized a least a few surahs (chapters)?



Free Quran download:
http://islamtomorrow.com/downloads

This site was recommended in another thread. Free CD is available .


http://www.ediscoverislam.com
Reply

Umar001
01-24-2007, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
You are very welcome.
I reserch in one of two ways. First of all my husband is muslim so I ask him and then I do alot of internet research which led me here:)
I do have a copy of the Quran that is translated to English. I admit I have tried several times to read it but it makes my brain hurt. I find the explanations on-line to be very helpful though.
Hey, just for the record, am a revert too and I will agree with you that reading the english can be hard.

having the background or an explanation to it makes it much easier.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir is widely used.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-24-2007, 07:04 PM
PS. Sis Tayyaba , sorry to steal img from ur post :hiding:
lol i laughed a bit when i saw it :shade: its ok sis. steal woteva u want ;D
Reply

- Qatada -
01-24-2007, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
You are very welcome.
I reserch in one of two ways. First of all my husband is muslim so I ask him and then I do alot of internet research which led me here:)
I do have a copy of the Quran that is translated to English. I admit I have tried several times to read it but it makes my brain hurt. I find the explanations on-line to be very helpful though.

Hey.


If you get a headache by reading, you can try to download the recitation in arabic with verse by verse translation in english from this link:


http://sabbir.com/DownloadHalal.html


The translation he uses is Muhsin Khan which can be found on this link:

http://quranicrealm.com



Peace!
Reply

Jayda
01-24-2007, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)


&&&



Did you read Holy Quran ? What's ur opinion & why ?

(Specially for non-Muslims )


Greetings to our non-Muslims sisters & brothers .

I read a comment in another thread '' I'm not Muslim, and honestly, I'm not impressed with the Qur'an. I don't think it is "true" in the sense that the Christian Bible is true'' .



I want to know what & why non-Muslims think about Holy Quran. I request u to give ur opinion freely ( without using foul words , of course ) .

Also , pl. mention how many other holy Books u read & what u think about those holy Books ?


PS. Sis Tayyaba , sorry to steal img from ur post :hiding:


hola Muslim Woman,

gracias for your question... i read the quran while i was pregnant, a friend suggested it when i was talking to him online. my impressions were that it is easy to understand and has a simple message, that there is one God and mohammed is a prophet from God...

i read other holy books while i was pregnant, because of my free time and i wanted to better understand the people i talked to on CF... i found the baghavagita to be the most profound of all the non christian religious books... i tried to read dianetics but i stopped reading after a certain point... and i attempted to read a book connected to a religion called "discordianism" which confused me and insulted me very much...

many of these books, especially the baghavagita i found intellectually challenging and spiritually profound but they did not feel the same to me as the bible. i do not know how to properly say this but i feel, reading these books, the mark of mens imaginations and not Gods thoughts like i do with the bible... some, like the baghavagita i think i detected the wisdom of an entire culture that had been refined over centuries of existence and condensed into a religious message. others i sensed an underlying personal agenda... this was the case with the quran and the dianetics book... and still another, this discordian book, i thought maybe there was a crude implied joke...

but for me the bible just does not feel that way... so that is one contrasting thing i noticed... i think i would like to read more of the vedic scriptures though...

have you read (in entirety) other religious texts? what are your experiences relating to this... if i may ask?

Dios te bendiga
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-25-2007, 01:03 AM
Salaam/peace;

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Hey.


If you get a headache by reading, you can try to download the recitation in arabic with verse by verse translation in english from this link:


http://sabbir.com/DownloadHalal.html


The translation he uses is Muhsin Khan which can be found on this link:

http://quranicrealm.com



Peace!
thanks a lot for the link ....i just visited it ...wonderful. We can listen to Quran with translation while doing other work on net .:happy:
Reply

Umar001
01-25-2007, 01:21 AM
Well I just read the Bible and then the Qu'ran.

When I read the Qu'ran I was very skeptical, sometimes, as Jayda mentions, I felt that there might be ulterior motives involved.

You know when the Qu'ran says "Allah and His messenger" and so forth, I used to think, 'hmm, you see, it's so clear, Muhammad just made this up to get a fifth of the war booty' (Autho Billah, I seek refuge in Allah).

At the same time, I saw the amazing simplicity yet also profound message in the Qu'ran, the Elevation of God, which was something I recognised from the Old Testament, along side such things I also saw many stories of previous prophets, yet, instead of being mentioned as historical biographies, 'He walked this way, he took a sheep and slaughtered it, then he ate it and spoke to G-d' instead of such narratives, I found in the Qu'ran what seemed to be less of a human written historical approach, i.e. the stories were proceeded or finished with statements like 'Remember when so and so did this' or 'And We (Almighty God speaking to the Person) will make you an example, sign, for manking' The relation of stories of people before was thus, in my view, changed from one of a historical biographical prospective to a clear lesson and parable brought forth in the speech of God and which God narrated to us as a reminder or a sign, example, that was another difference.

I could relate the stuff that interested me for a while yet, but I will keep it brief God willing.

Abu Ikhlas.
Reply

snakelegs
01-25-2007, 01:43 AM
for some reason, i don't get along with holy books - they strike me as boring.
i am a little over halfway through the qur'an now, and looks like i will manage to finish it this time around.
from what i remember about the bible (old testament only), which i also found boring, god seems more merciful and less rigid in the qur'an than he was in the bible. and the adam and eve story is a great improvement.
Reply

Umar001
01-25-2007, 01:51 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
for some reason, i don't get along with holy books - they strike me as boring.
i am a little over halfway through the qur'an now, and looks like i will manage to finish it this time around.
from what i remember about the bible (old testament only), which i also found boring, god seems more merciful and less rigid in the qur'an than he was in the bible. and the adam and eve story is a great improvement.
Just out of curiousity, do you just read the Qu'ran and keep reading and reading and reading?

Because even I don't do that, not in the english anyway.
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-25-2007, 01:54 AM
Salaam/peace ;

Originally Posted by Jayda
hola Muslim Woman,
--- may be , it's a funny/stupid question :hiding: but hola means hello ??

Originally Posted by Jayda
..have you read (in entirety) other religious texts? what are your experiences relating to this... if i may ask?
----I read OT , NT , don't remember the name of the Hindus book ....about the stories of their dieties.


My honest answer may hurt feelings of non-Muslims readers . So , pl accept my apology . imsad

As a Muslim , i learnt to respect ALL THE PROPHETS
( pbut ) ...not only the Last Prophet Muhammed (p).
So , when I read OT , I was more than shocked .

The allegations against Prophet David (p) , Lot (p) ……those were extremely shocking . Also , I always heard so criticism against Quran that it has so many verses on war. I never read/heard any condemnation against any other holy books. So , I thought there is no verse on war in other holy books.



Also , media condemn the Last Prophet (p) for his several wives as if he was the only Prophet (p) in the earth who had more than one wife. So , when I found out that Jewish & Christians respected Prophet Solomon , David , Abraham , Moses ( peace be upon them all ) had more than one wife…..Solomon (p) had 1000 wives including so many concubines…..i was so surprised.

Also , David (p) married a very young virgin when he was dieing ....... i can't think , how media could have reacted if it was done by the Last Prophet (p).



I don’t understand , how it’s possible for media & non- Muslims to criticize Islam always when Jewish & Chrsitians holy books have so many verses on war (verses are much more harsh than the Quranic verses ) , allowed polygamy , slavery etc , etc.


Many non-Muslims believe Quran is anti-Jews. I wrote about this here.



similarities between Muslims & Jewish Holy Books



I hope, I did not hurt ur feelings much . About NT & Hindus holy book , Insha Allah next time.

Dios te bendiga
--- and the meaning is ????


&&

O our Lord, do not suffer our hearts to go astray after You have (rightly) guided us, grant us mercy from You, for verily You and You (alone) are the ever bestower. (ALI IMRAN: 8)
Reply

snakelegs
01-25-2007, 01:55 AM
no, i read in sessions of about 20 minutes at a time.
you can read it in arabic? - that's cool!
Reply

north_malaysian
01-25-2007, 01:56 AM
Translation of the Koran in other languages available online:

MALAY

http://quran.al-islam.com/Targama/di...nSora=1&nAya=1

http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/quran/malay/index.html

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=20

INDONESIAN

http://quran.al-islam.com/Targama/di...nSora=1&nAya=1

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=21

HEBREW

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Hebrew/Koran/

YIDDISH

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/yiddish/Yiddish-Koran/

ALBANIAN

http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/quran/albanian/

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=26

SWAHILI

http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/quran/swahili/index.html

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s-main&kid=23

BOSNIAN

http://www.kuranikerim.com/bosnian/m_indexb.htm

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=22

DUTCH

http://www.kuranikerim.com/dutch/m_i...5e5e5fe41777de

JAPANESE

http://www.isuramu.net/kuruan/index.html

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=17

CHINESE

http://www.glink.net.hk/~hkiya/c_quran.html

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=18

AZERBAIJANI

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=13

KOREAN

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=19

PORTUGUESE

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=24

POLISH

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=25

FINNISH

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=12

RUSSIAN

http://www.kuran.gen.tr/?x=s_main&kid=10
Reply

snakelegs
01-25-2007, 02:05 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Also , I always heard so criticism against Quran that it has so many verses on war. I never read/heard any condemnation against any other holy books. So , I thought there is no verse on war in other holy books.
the bible (OT) is the most violent book i've ever read.
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-25-2007, 09:42 AM
Salaam/peace ;

Originally Posted by north_malaysian
[MOD: Long quote removed]
----thank u :happy: ......is there any more ? :okay:
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-25-2007, 09:46 AM
Salaam;


Originally Posted by Al Habeshi


...I also saw many stories of previous prophets, yet, instead of being mentioned as historical biographies, 'He walked this way, he took a sheep and slaughtered it, then he ate it and spoke to G-d' instead of such narratives…………. to a clear lesson and parable brought forth in the speech of God and which God narrated to us as a reminder or a sign, example, that was another difference...

Abu Ikhlas.

That’s a good point bro Eesa . :happy:

I remember , while reading Bible , I found many chapters like a king woke up from sleep , wore a dress , called servant , went there etc ,etc……I did not understand …..was he a Prophet (p) ? If yes , then why it’s not mentioned ? If he was not , then why we need to learn about his daily routine …..why it’s so imp ?

Several chapters were like that he had this & that , his son had that & that ……..long chapters. May be , it’s good for historians but what we have to learn from that list ?

In NT , about Jesus ‘s (p) forgiving the prostitute , I was confused . Does it mean , Jesus (p) sanctioned adultery / prostitution ? It can’t be so .


{ Insha Allah , to be continued ) :okay:
Reply

- Qatada -
01-25-2007, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace ;



----thank u :happy: ......is there any more ? :okay:

:salamext:


You can use this sister in lots of languages:

http://www.holyquran.org/
Reply

glo
01-25-2007, 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
As a Muslim , i learnt to respect ALL THE PROPHETS
( pbut ) ...not only the Last Prophet Muhammed (p).
So , when I read OT , I was more than shocked .

The allegations against Prophet David (p) , Lot (p) ……those were extremely shocking . Also , I always heard so criticism against Quran that it has so many verses on war. I never read/heard any condemnation against any other holy books. So , I thought there is no verse on war in other holy books.

Also , media condemn the Last Prophet (p) for his several wives as if he was the only Prophet (p) in the earth who had more than one wife. So , when I found out that Jewish & Christians respected Prophet Solomon , David , Abraham , Moses ( peace be upon them all ) had more than one wife…..Solomon (p) had 1000 wives including so many concubines…..i was so surprised.

Also , David (p) married a very young virgin when he was dieing ....... i can't think , how media could have reacted if it was done by the Last Prophet (p).

I don’t understand , how it’s possible for media & non- Muslims to criticize Islam always when Jewish & Chrsitians holy books have so many verses on war (verses are much more harsh than the Quranic verses ) , allowed polygamy , slavery etc , etc.
Greetings, Muslim Woman

Your post raises some very interesting points.

You are quite right, the prophets, according to the Bible, were not perfect in any way, shape or form!
Some of the issues you mention, i.e. having 1000 wifes or marrying a young virgin in old age, would have been appropriate at that times, so those things were not considered sinful - but other things clearly were.

Unnecessary comments about Prophets, deleted by Woodrow

Actually, the fact that the prophets were not perfect may explain some of the Christian ideology: You don't have to be perfect to serve God and do his will!
If even the Bible greats can commit sin and do wrong, and yet find God's favour, then we all can!

The prophets are honoured and respected by Christians - not because they were perfect, but because they submitted to God and followed his ways (even with a few hiccups along the way), and mostly because God had called them to be his prophets.

It also explains how, according to Christian beliefs, Jesus is set apart from the prophets. In contrast to their weaknesses and failing, Jesus was (and still is) perfect.
Not, because he was a super-human, not even because he was a super-prophet, but because he is God himself.

I hope this helps to explain the Christian perspective a little better.

Peace
Reply

Malaikah
01-25-2007, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by glo
David committed adultery and murder to get the woman he wanted.
That is just really sad:muddlehea ... A man who it meant to be a prophet commits two very serious crimes to get a woman?:confused:
Abraham pretended that Sarah was his siter, ebcause he feared for his life.
(Those are just two, that spring to mind off the top off my head)
That was never a sin in the first place. He was completely justified in acting that way. (Well, in the Islamic version anyway, I don't know about the biblical version...)
The prophets are honoured and respected by Christians - not because they were perfect, but because they submitted to God and followed his ways (even with a few hiccups along the way), and mostly because God had called them to be his prophets.
What is honourable/respectable about killing and committing adultery? Or did he end up repenting for his action? Or did he feel justified in it?

It also explains how, according to Christian beliefs, Jesus is set apart from the prophets. In contrast to their weaknesses and failing, Jesus was (and still is) perfect.
Not, because he was a super-human, not even because he was a super-prophet, but because he is God himself.
Isn't this contradicted by what Jesus supposedly said when He was about to die? Something like "why have you forsaken me"? That sounds also like a weakness/failing to me... Jesus failing to be pleased with God's Will (which is his own will, since Jesus is God himself?)

Oh, and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) himself was also a very decent man with out such extreme short comings, but he was, without doubt, human. It would be interesting if the biblical Jesus were compared to Prophet Muhammad... to see who was 'better', when it came to weaknesses and stuff... That would be pretty strange if Prophet Muhammad happened to be superior, since he is human and Jesus is supposedly the Son of God...
Reply

Umar001
01-25-2007, 03:03 PM
I do not think we need to delv into each personal prophet's problem or rather what problem has been written by others about him.

The basic outline is this, in the Biblical writing we see Men who are apparently chosen by G-d to promote his faith and become leaders, sometimes doing acts which we cannot imagine a leader doing, some Muslims argue that if leaders do such big sins then it is a form of physicological justification for others, like a kid finds justicification in their parent's action 'Its ok, the boss done it' or 'Oh well Im not better than so and so and he done' Some Muslims feel that the prophets and messengers are the pinnicle of their religion, thus they did not perform major sins since they represented their God.

On the other hand some Christians say that these were humans and these humans did make mistakes and we cannot except 100% from a human, though God expects that from us, the only being that had 100% is Jesus and he was God too, and that is what makes him different.


I think that is one difference between the two books amongst many.


Eesa.
Reply

Jayda
01-25-2007, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace ;



--- may be , it's a funny/stupid question :hiding: but hola means hello ??
:) yes, hola means hello in spanish... i hope i do not bother you...



----I read OT , NT , don't remember the name of the Hindus book ....about the stories of their dieties.


My honest answer may hurt feelings of non-Muslims readers . So , pl accept my apology . imsad

As a Muslim , i learnt to respect ALL THE PROPHETS
( pbut ) ...not only the Last Prophet Muhammed (p).
So , when I read OT , I was more than shocked .

The allegations against Prophet David (p) , Lot (p) ……those were extremely shocking . Also , I always heard so criticism against Quran that it has so many verses on war. I never read/heard any condemnation against any other holy books. So , I thought there is no verse on war in other holy books.



Also , media condemn the Last Prophet (p) for his several wives as if he was the only Prophet (p) in the earth who had more than one wife. So , when I found out that Jewish & Christians respected Prophet Solomon , David , Abraham , Moses ( peace be upon them all ) had more than one wife…..Solomon (p) had 1000 wives including so many concubines…..i was so surprised.

Also , David (p) married a very young virgin when he was dieing ....... i can't think , how media could have reacted if it was done by the Last Prophet (p).



I don’t understand , how it’s possible for media & non- Muslims to criticize Islam always when Jewish & Chrsitians holy books have so many verses on war (verses are much more harsh than the Quranic verses ) , allowed polygamy , slavery etc , etc.


Many non-Muslims believe Quran is anti-Jews. I wrote about this here.



similarities between Muslims & Jewish Holy Books



I hope, I did not hurt ur feelings much . About NT & Hindus holy book , Insha Allah next time.
gracias, this is very interesting... if i may ask, and i do not mean this as an insult or rebuke... what were your opinions of the Bible and Hindu scriptures just in and of themselves... not from the position of defending the quran against what people say, or something like this...


--- and the meaning is ????
it is short for 'que Dios te bendiga' may God bless you...

&&

O our Lord, do not suffer our hearts to go astray after You have (rightly) guided us, grant us mercy from You, for verily You and You (alone) are the ever bestower. (ALI IMRAN: 8)
this reminds me of the prayer at the beginning of the first book in the quran... the part about not going astray and asking to be rightly guided.

Dios te bendiga
Reply

Keltoi
01-25-2007, 06:20 PM
I believe all too often we spend too much time trying to find ways in which our faiths are different and not enough time finding things we agree upon. Just a thought.
Reply

- Qatada -
01-25-2007, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I believe all too often we spend too much time trying to find ways in which our faiths are different and not enough time finding things we agree upon. Just a thought.

Not to go off-topic, but i think its because we follow different faiths, and we have to reason why we believe what we believe.. if we just explained the similarities all the time, it wouldn't actually benefit us much. However, i also believe that we should discuss in a respectable manner. :)



Peace.
Reply

Jayda
01-25-2007, 07:01 PM
si... i think sometimes we discuss similarities because we are afraid we cannot acknowledge our significant differences in a civil way...

Dios te bendiga
Reply

Woodrow
01-25-2007, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
si... i think sometimes we discuss similarities because we are afraid we cannot acknowledge our significant differences in a civil way...

Dios te bendiga
Very true. Because there are so many similarities, the differences seem to spark more anger when we discuss them. We get the attitude of thinking " the other person is so close why can't he see it my way."

History seems to show that the closer two cultures are similar the higher the risk of war. In any country you are more likely to see a civil war before you see war with an exterior enemy. Even when there is a war with an external enemy you will often see a simultaneous internal civil war develop.
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-26-2007, 01:40 AM
Salaam/peace ;

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


You can use this sister in lots of languages:

http://www.holyquran.org/
thanks bro :D

Those who are English speaking , pl. let me know which English translation of Quran u found good & easy ?
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-26-2007, 01:59 AM
Salaam/peace ;

Originally Posted by Keltoi
I believe all too often we spend too much time trying to find ways in which our faiths are different and not enough time finding things we agree upon. Just a thought.
very good point :okay:

pl.read article of our revert Jew bro .



CHRISTIANITY & ISLAM

NO MORE DIFFERENCE THAN "THICKNESS OF A TWIG"?

By Michael Wolfe



http://muslim-canada.org/michaelwolfe.html


......Many new Muslims were being tortured. Their livelihoods were threatened, their families persecuted.

In 616, as matters grew worse, Muhammad (p) sent a small band of followers across the Red Sea to seek shelter in the Christian kingdom of Axum.



There, he told them, they would find a just ruler, the Negus, who could protect them. The Muslims found the Negus in his palace, somewhere in the borderland between modern Ethiopia and Eritrea.




And protect them he did, after one Muslim recited to him some lines on the Virgin Mary from the Qur'an.



The Negus wept at what he heard. Between Christians and Muslims, he said, he could not make out more difference than the thickness of a twig.



These two stories underscore the support Christians gave Muhammad (p) in times of trial.

The Qur'an distils the meaning from the drama:



"Those who feel the most affection for Us (who put our faith in the Qur'an), are those that say, 'We are Christians,' for priests and monks live among them who are not arrogant.

When they listen to what We have shown Muhammad, their eyes brim over with tears at the truth they find there...."



Even today, when a Muslim mentions Jesus' name, you will hear it followed by the phrase "peace and blessings be upon him," because Muslims still revere him as a prophet. Again, the Qur'an affirms it:


"We believe in God and in what has been sent down to us, what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and their offspring, and what was given to Moses and to Jesus and all the other prophets of the Lord. We make no distinction among them."


....It might almost be said that Islam holds a view of Jesus similar to some of the early apostolic versions condemned by the fourth-century Byzantine Church.



Once Constantine installed Christianity as the Holy Roman Empire's state religion, a rage for orthodoxy followed.

The Councils of Nicaea (325), Tyre (335), Constantinople (381), Ephesus (431), and Chalcedon (451) were official -- and often brutal -- attempts to stamp out heterodox views of Jesus held by "heretical" theologians.



Rulings by these councils led to the persecution and deaths of tens of thousands of early Christians at the hands of the more "orthodox" Christians who condemned them. Most disputes centered on divergent interpretations of the Trinity (God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).


For this reason, historians of religion sometimes see in these bloody divisions one of the root causes for early Islam's firmly unitarian outlook.

Then and now, no more dangerous religious mistake exists for a Muslim than dividing the Oneness of God by twos or threes.

Despite these important differences, however, the Qur'an repeatedly counsels Muslims not to dispute with other monotheists over matters of doctrine. People, it says, believe differently for good reasons. In fact, that is a part of Allah's will.
Reply

Jayda
01-26-2007, 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace ;



thanks bro :D

Those who are English speaking , pl. let me know which English translation of Quran u found good & easy ?
hola Muslim Woman.

i read a very good version of the quran with footnotes and the arabic quran on the opposing page... just after i married my husband i found myself left alone for a long part of the day and i came to his library, where he had this quran... among many many books about islam and christianity which surprised me because i knew nothing about quran or my husbands interest in it...

my friend said the english rendition found on the left hand page was done by yusuf ali and was both very old and very accurate...

i say this is good because it was easiest for me to understand, and it communicated well what i think it mean to communicate

Dios te bendiga
Reply

north_malaysian
01-26-2007, 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace ;



----thank u :happy: ......is there any more ? :okay:
of course....:p
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-26-2007, 08:35 AM
Salaam/peace ;

Originally Posted by Jayda
hola Muslim Woman.

i read a very good version of the quran with footnotes and the arabic quran on the opposing page... .

Dios te bendiga
thanks sis :okay:

any more suggesstion from other Readers ?
Reply

- Qatada -
01-26-2007, 01:24 PM
:salamext:


Sister Muslim Woman, i think the best translations i found were; Muhsin Khan and Sahih International, which can be viewed here insha'Allaah:

http://quranicrealm.com
Reply

Muhammad
01-27-2007, 04:18 PM
:sl: and Greetings,

I moved the posts discussing biblical texts and Christianity into this thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...out-bible.html
Reply

kkawohl1
01-28-2007, 02:22 AM
4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

The Holy Quran beautifully portrays the truth. The Urantia United Book [link removed] verifies these truths and supplements it with an expanded view of the structure of God and the Heavens.
Reply

Jayda
01-28-2007, 02:27 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace ;



thanks sis :okay:

any more suggesstion from other Readers ?
de nada :)

if i could make one more suggestion, i think it was very helpful for me to have footnotes to explain things... the quran is a very interesting book and it is important to read it as muslims read it... and footnotes helped me very much toward that end... things that i found perhaps very shocking at first i realized were not as they seemed once i read the footnotes and understood the contexts and beliefs that muslims had surrounding it... so that was helpful for me...

i wish there were something like a book that described muslims laws and other holy books like hadiths...

Dios te bendiga
Reply

Woodrow
01-28-2007, 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by Jayda
de nada :)

if i could make one more suggestion, i think it was very helpful for me to have footnotes to explain things... the quran is a very interesting book and it is important to read it as muslims read it... and footnotes helped me very much toward that end... things that i found perhaps very shocking at first i realized were not as they seemed once i read the footnotes and understood the contexts and beliefs that muslims had surrounding it... so that was helpful for me...

i wish there were something like a book that described muslims laws and other holy books like hadiths...

Dios te bendiga
There are. For helping me understand Sunnah I am using Fiqh us-Sunnah, translated by Muhammad Sa'eed Dabas and Jamal al-Din M. Zarabozo it has excellent commentaries in it.

For the Ahadith I have not found any with commentaries that I would recommend to anyone who does not have at least minimal knowledge of Arabic. I am certain there are some. Perhaps others can post them
Reply

- Qatada -
01-28-2007, 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
de nada :)

if i could make one more suggestion, i think it was very helpful for me to have footnotes to explain things... the quran is a very interesting book and it is important to read it as muslims read it... and footnotes helped me very much toward that end... things that i found perhaps very shocking at first i realized were not as they seemed once i read the footnotes and understood the contexts and beliefs that muslims had surrounding it... so that was helpful for me...

i wish there were something like a book that described muslims laws and other holy books like hadiths...

Dios te bendiga

Hola.


I think alot of people take verses out of context or put them under their own interpretation. Which is a big mistake. So i'm glad you read the footnotes to understand the context of the verses.


There are hadith books, like the two famous sahih's (authentic books) - Sahih Al-Bukhari, & Sahih Al-Muslim. Both of them are quite big, and they have explanations of the ahadith in two famous collections of; Fath al Baari by Ibn Hajar al-Askalaani [explanation of Sahih Al-Bukhari] & the explanation of Sahih Muslim by Imam Al-Nawawi called Sharh Al-Muslim.

However if you were to study them, it would be better to focus on them in the arabic language, because translations aren't the real thing. Also it's better to study under a teacher, especially when we don't know the arabic language properly.


Interpreting the verses of Qur'an and Ahadith should be done according to how the companions of the Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) understood them. Due to the fact that they were with the Messenger of Allaah and could ask any questions which they were unsure of. Therefore anyone who interprets any verse or hadith to a way other than how the early muslims understood it, then they may be taking it out of context.

The word tafsir means explanation, and there are quite a few tafsir of Qur'an, which can even be found online. Again they are just translations and it would be better to study under a teacher. However, if you want to try to take a look at a famous tafsir of Qur'an; try checking Tafsir Ibn Kathir [click here.]



Peace.
Reply

Snowflake
01-28-2007, 12:24 PM
Good thread Muslim Woman.

I have an English translation of the Holy Quran with meanings of the Quran with footnotes. The language is simple and easy to understand. (by M.M. Pickthall)

p.s muslims woman, don't worry about stealing tayyaba's pic, I'm always stealing her smilies on msn :P
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-28-2007, 06:57 PM
yea it is a good thread lol, MashAllah. I think I should get a different Qur'an translated by a different person since everyone seems to be a using the same kind. The one I have is by M.H. Shakir...is he any good, if anyone knows?

p.s muslims woman, don't worry about stealing tayyaba's pic, I'm always stealing her smilies on msn :P
we both steal ;D u jus do it a little more :D jking lol.
Reply

snakelegs
01-28-2007, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola Muslim Woman.

i read a very good version of the quran with footnotes and the arabic quran on the opposing page... just after i married my husband i found myself left alone for a long part of the day and i came to his library, where he had this quran... among many many books about islam and christianity which surprised me because i knew nothing about quran or my husbands interest in it...

my friend said the english rendition found on the left hand page was done by yusuf ali and was both very old and very accurate...

i say this is good because it was easiest for me to understand, and it communicated well what i think it mean to communicate

Dios te bendiga

hola jayda,
which translation is this?
Reply

Mustafa Sharif
01-28-2007, 07:34 PM
Salam,
How is every1 ..
Yes alhamdulilah i read Quraan.. atless everyday alhamdulilah..
May Allah Bless You And Everyone.. Inshallah

Fii Amani Allah

Thank you,

Regards

Your Brother : Mustafa Sharif
MUSTAFASHARIF.COM
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-29-2007, 01:19 AM
Salaam/peace ;


Attn: mod

I read a book about Hindu dieties ........stories were very shocking like the story of Prophet Lut (p) or more awful.


Do u think , it will be ok if i write about those in short just to give a clear picture of differences ? OR if we have any Hindu participant here , we many ask him/her first to give the logical explantions they have behind those stories ?



.....things that i found perhaps very shocking at first i realized were not as they seemed once i read the footnotes
---what were those verses ? Why it was so shocking ?


i think the best translations i found were; Muhsin Khan and Sahih International, which can be viewed here insha'Allaah:
http://quranicrealm.com

---Jazak Allah bro :okay:

hola jayda,
which translation is this?
-- Yusuf Ali

we both steal u jus do it a little more jking lol.
---so glad that i m not the only one who steals :giggling:
Reply

dougmusr
01-29-2007, 01:27 AM
However if you were to study them, it would be better to focus on them in the arabic language, because translations aren't the real thing. Also it's better to study under a teacher, especially when we don't know the arabic language properly.
Are you saying that those who translated the Hadith and Quran did not study under a teacher prior to or during the undertaking? That they might have had motivation to introduce inaccuracies?
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-29-2007, 01:57 AM
No..she is saying its best to read the Qur'an and Hadith in Arabic, because English doesnt support Arabic. Some words that exist in English dont exist in Arabic or words in Arabic dont exist in English. So its best to learn the language to understand both better and get the correct message through.
Reply

thirdwatch512
01-29-2007, 03:43 AM
i have read the qu'ran several times, as well as a few books here and there on it, such as "the Qu'ran, Bible, and Science" "The Truth about Mohommad" "Islam for Dummies" "The Satanic Verses" "The Straigh Path" and "political islam." so yeah, i've read pro islamic books, and anti islamic books lol.
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-29-2007, 09:23 AM
Salaam/peace;


Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
i have read the qu'ran several times, as well as a few books here and there on it, such as "the Qu'ran, Bible, and Science" "The Truth about Mohommad" "Islam for Dummies" "The Satanic Verses" "The Straigh Path" and "political islam." so yeah, i've read pro islamic books, and anti islamic books lol.
thanks for reading Quran & few pro Islamic books :happy:

may i ask , while reading Quran , what was ur feeling ? What similarities or differences u find ?
Reply

- Qatada -
01-29-2007, 12:39 PM
Originally Posted by dougmusr
Are you saying that those who translated the Hadith and Quran did not study under a teacher prior to or during the undertaking? That they might have had motivation to introduce inaccuracies?

Like the sister said earlier, its because different languages don't fit perfectly into each other.

Also, the use of metaphors and sayings which the arabs used may not be the same as how we think them to be. I.e. 'may your nose be rubbed in dust' in arabic may refer to - may you die, because once a person dies they may fall flat faced onto the ground because their hands aren't controlled. Now what is a translator to do; a literal translation or a metaphorical? If they choose either one, then we still won't truely understand unless we refer back to the arabic.


Arabic is a pure language, and it doesn't get words from other languages. Rather it has words only from itself, so the context of the words make sense, and it is easy to learn too while being smooth, constant and eloquent.


And Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace. :)
Reply

tomtomsmom
01-29-2007, 02:25 PM
I have a Quran that I got for free from an islamic website. it is "Interpretation of the Meaning of The Glorious Qur'an" translated by proffesor Syed Vickar Ahamed.
It is actually for chldren ages 6-16 so it is broken down into the simplest terms so it is easier to understand. and it has footnotes to explain things that are still kinda hard to understand. when i see quotes on here or in other readings i cross-reference with that and it helps me understand what it is supposed to mean.
it also has an extensive preface area that explains how the it is different from other books and the life of mohammed.
Reply

thirdwatch512
01-29-2007, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace;




thanks for reading Quran & few pro Islamic books :happy:

may i ask , while reading Quran , what was ur feeling ? What similarities or differences u find ?
well, the qu'ran is much much different the the Bible. in the bible, everything is written in an order where you know who someone is referring to if anyone, and what they're talking about, and this and that. whereas in the qu'ran, sometimes you don't know. like in the middle of a sura it might just all of a sudden change subjects, and so yeah it's confusing.

i felt sort of wierd while i was reading it. like ok i'm gay, and islam is very homophobic, and it's like i was a gay guy reading a book on why gays are horrible or something lol. so it sort of felt wierd.

in terms of similarities.. the Bible and Qu'ran are exact opposites. lol. but the qu'ran does compare to the torah in a way, especially leviticus, because it tells you what is right and what's not.

the qu'ran is also very short. like for the Bible, it takes me prolly a year to read it all. in the qu'ran though, i can read it within a matter of one or two weeks.
Reply

snakelegs
01-30-2007, 12:46 AM
hi third,
the bible is equally harsh re: homosexuality.
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-30-2007, 01:00 AM
Salaam/peace;

Originally Posted by thirdwatch512

.... ok i'm gay, and islam is very homophobic, and it's like i was a gay guy reading a book on why gays are horrible or something lol. so it sort of felt wierd.
---Quran forbids what is wrong & encourages us to do right things ....so why felt bad ? :mad:

Do u believe , Jesus (p) allowed gayism ?



the qu'ran is also very short. like for the Bible, it takes me prolly a year to read it all. in the qu'ran though, i can read it within a matter of one or two weeks.

--yap , if u compare the size , Quran is much shorter but to understand /enjoy it fully specially the chapters regarding the Prophets (pbut) & the life hereafter , i think , one needs to take at least one month time.

Thanks for sharing ur feelings .:okay:
Reply

thirdwatch512
01-30-2007, 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace;



---Quran forbids what is wrong & encourages us to do right things ....so why felt bad ? :mad:

Do u believe , Jesus (p) allowed gayism ?






--yap , if u compare the size , Quran is much shorter but to understand /enjoy it fully specially the chapters regarding the Prophets (pbut) & the life hereafter , i think , one needs to take at least one month time.

Thanks for sharing ur feelings .:okay:
i don't think jesus allowed "gayism" as you say, but certainly he didn't want homosexuals killed! let me tell you a story in the Bible about adultery..

so there was this girl who had comitted adultery. so these people got her, and brought her to jesus and said "stone her to death, for she has comitted adultery." you want to know how jesus replied? he goes "whoever has not sinned, cast the first stone." of course no one could because everyone has sinned. he just told her to repent and pray and she would be fine.

i don't think jesus would approve of lust, and when i lust i am sinning. but i don't think God hates me for being gay. the sexual part, maybe, but the gay part.. not at all. and most christians and jews can agree with that. even orthodox jews agree that homosexuality isn't a choice!
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-30-2007, 03:29 AM
No it isn't, but it is when you choose to act upon it. If a person is gay and knows not to do it, he/she wont act upon it. G-d knows the persons intention. It is a choice when you choose to continue. But I agree, no one expects the feelings to be built.
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-30-2007, 09:33 AM


Salaam/peace;

Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
let me tell you a story in the Bible about adultery..

so there was this girl who had comitted adultery....
--this story is a fake one , bro. That's what i told sis glo that it will encourgae people to do sin because they will think Jesus (p) forbids to punish the sinners.

u may visit this link:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...t-bible-8.html


Yes , if anybody repents sincerely , then of course God is the most merciful but it does not mean that u will commintting sin & sin intentionally.

Gay people need medical & religious /spiritual support but no one should supprot them to continue their immoral act as God forbids it.

Pl. try to understand, if the whole world starts supporting u , it will always be considered as a sin . So, try not to repeat sin & ask forgiveness. God is really kind & merciful ...ask help from God.
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thirdwatch512
01-30-2007, 11:50 PM
that story might be made up in your opinion, but certainly not mine. refer to john 8:3-15..
3αγουσιν δε οι γραμματεις και οι φαρισαιοι προς αυτον γυναικα εν μοιχεια κατειλημμενην και στησαντες αυτην εν μεσω
3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court,

4λεγουσιν αυτω διδασκαλε αυτη η γυνη κατειληφθη επαυτοφωρω μοιχευομενη
4they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.

5εν δε τω νομω μωσης ημιν ενετειλατο τας τοιαυτας λιθοβολεισθαι συ ουν τι λεγεις
5"Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?"

6τουτο δε ελεγον πειραζοντες αυτον ινα εχωσιν κατηγορειν αυτου ο δε ιησους κατω κυψας τω δακτυλω εγραφεν εις την γην
6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and withHis finger wrote on the ground.

7ως δε επεμενον ερωτωντες αυτον ανακυψας ειπεν προς αυτους ο αναμαρτητος υμων πρωτος τον λιθον επ αυτη βαλετω
7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

8και παλιν κατω κυψας εγραφεν εις την γην
8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9οι δε ακουσαντες και υπο της συνειδησεως ελεγχομενοι εξηρχοντο εις καθ εις αρξαμενοι απο των πρεσβυτερων εως των εσχατων και κατελειφθη μονος ο ιησους και η γυνη εν μεσω εστωσα
9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.

10ανακυψας δε ο ιησους και μηδενα θεασαμενος πλην της γυναικος ειπεν αυτη η γυνη που εισιν εκεινοι οι κατηγοροι σου ουδεις σε κατεκρινεν
10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?"

11η δε ειπεν ουδεις κυριε ειπεν δε αυτη ο ιησους ουδε εγω σε κατακρινω πορευου και μηκετι αμαρτανε
11She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either Go From now on sin no more."
and muslim woman - when you speak of acts, are you talking about the acts of loving, the sexual act, or both?
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-30-2007, 11:52 PM
Anything that involves making an action. If its something your feeling but u keep it to yourself and not go on with it or act upon it, then its something which could be forgiven.
Reply

thirdwatch512
01-30-2007, 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by Tayyaba
Anything that involves making an action. If its something your feeling but u keep it to yourself and not go on with it or act upon it, then its something which could be forgiven.
so what if i, as a gay guy, have a boyfirend? would i be punished by death for that, even if we didn't have sex? and let's say i was totally out to everyone.
Reply

Jayda
01-31-2007, 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

Salaam/peace;



--this story is a fake one , bro. That's what i told sis glo that it will encourgae people to do sin because they will think Jesus (p) forbids to punish the sinners.

u may visit this link:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...t-bible-8.html


Yes , if anybody repents sincerely , then of course God is the most merciful but it does not mean that u will commintting sin & sin intentionally.

Gay people need medical & religious /spiritual support but no one should supprot them to continue their immoral act as God forbids it.

Pl. try to understand, if the whole world starts supporting u , it will always be considered as a sin . So, try not to repeat sin & ask forgiveness. God is really kind & merciful ...ask help from God.
hola Muslim Woman,

this is not true. the pericope adulterae does not appear in certain early greek manuscripts (which are not bibles) like vaticanus or sinaiticus, because it is an interpolation from other gospel sources. the oral tradition was written down on individual papyri for each parable of the gospel... they were written as separate recountings. the very early church took the papyri (independent parables written on papyri and not yet codicized are called "folios") and assembled them into a chronological order so that we could also understand the chronology of Jesus ministry (it is very important), but certain parables did not fit in an particular narrative, so they were kept as separate parables independent of any gospel but still considered inspired scripture. eusebius and papias (bishop of heiraconpolis in the 2nd century) both are on record discussing the pericope adulterae in their sermons.

the question about the pericope is not whether it is inspired or not, the question is whether it is johannine or not... most of the textual studies indicate that it was written before John (the last in chronological order) and was probably originally authored by Matthew.

before the Bible was finally compiled in a perfect Canon codex by St. Jerome in the 5th century the Holy Fathers had decided it should be included in John since that was the only place it could be fit chronologically.

please do not confuse codexing (the converting of the oral tradition into papyri and then into a "book"), which took several centuries, with canonocity which means apostolic origin and date, which the pericope adulterae unquestionably meets.

also just to note... the purpose of the pericope adulterae is that only God can punish sins, not men, and that if we wish to follow God we must go and sin no more. this is consistent with Jesus message commanding us to no longer judge each others on matters of sin at all... it was an entire portion of his ministry that extends beyond one or two parables but in fact many.

homosexuality is against Gods law and is sinful, all sins against chastity are included in this category. we hope and pray people who do these things will stop their sins and turn to God instead, but God is merciful and provides us a way out of sin and it is up to us to accept that, nobody can make us...

Dios te bendiga
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-31-2007, 12:50 AM
Salaam/peace;


that story might be made up in your opinion, but certainly not mine. refer to john 8:3-15
---it’s not my opinion….Christian scholar informed us that . Read the answer of Sis glo …..she is a Christian.

Sis glo: You are right. The story of Jesus and the adulteress is not included in all Bible versions, and where it is included, it ususally comes with a comment that 'the earliest manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not contain it'


when you speak of acts, are you talking about the acts of loving, the sexual act, or both?



---acts mean what we do .God blessed us with holy Prophets (pbut ) & the holy books with Do’s & Dont’s. There is a guide line for us in the holy book & in the lives of the blessed Prophets (p) what we can do & what we can not.


As gayism is prohibited in holy books & no Prophet was gay , no one should find any excuses to be a gay ….does not matter if he gets support from the whole world. On the Last Day , no one will be able to save him from God’s anger.


what if i, as a gay guy, have a boyfriend? would i be punished by death for that, even if we didn't have sex?
---Of course not. Who told u so ? At least , in Islam we are allowed to make friendship ( not physical relationship ) with same sex only……girlfriend /boyfriend concept that leads people to enjoy close physical intimacy without marriage is prohibited.


So , if u don’t do any immoral act ( not approved by God ) with ur boyfriend , then it’s ok if u have a boyfriend ; but not to be tempted by devil , it’s better for u to keep away from someone who supports gay life.


this is not true……both are on record discussing the pericope adulterae in their sermons.

---do all scholars agree with u that it’s a true story ?

the purpose of the pericope adulterae is that only God can punish sins, not men,


---- so if anybody enters my house , kill my family members , rape my sis , I will leave the matter to God only & won’t do anything to punish the killer & rapist ?

There are so many punishment prescribed in Bible …..all are banned now ? If really only God can punish sins , they why Christians believe in ' Just war ' ? Why not leave the matter for God ?

If its something your feeling but u keep it to yourself and not go on with it or act upon it, then its something which could be forgiven.

--well sis , in Islam if we decide to do some bad things but don’t do it , then it’s not considered as a sin . So, to be forgiven , we have to commit sin first :p but here , no sin at all :D



If we decide to do some good but somehow can’t make it , still for our good intention , we will be rewarded :happy: ……...............God is really so kind ….................Alhamdulillha ( praise be to God only )
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-31-2007, 12:54 AM
^^Yes I know sis :). Thank you :statisfie
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-31-2007, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
...... it is "Interpretation of the Meaning of The Glorious Qur'an" translated by proffesor Syed Vickar Ahamed... it has footnotes to explain things that are still kinda hard to understand....
Salaam/peace;


Normally footnotes are given to make the verse more clearer ; do u remeber which verses/explanations u found hard to understand ?






Reply

thirdwatch512
01-31-2007, 01:20 AM
ok so why are some muslims sooo homophobic? like in U.K. mosques they preach how they want to kill homosexuals, and they have found books on how to secretly kill a homosexual without getting caught. is this islamic? do most muslims support this?
Reply

Jayda
01-31-2007, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace;

---it’s not my opinion….Christian scholar informed us that . Read the answer of Sis glo …..she is a Christian.

Sis glo: You are right. The story of Jesus and the adulteress is not included in all Bible versions, and where it is included, it ususally comes with a comment that 'the earliest manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not contain it'
hola Muslim Woman,

i am Catholic... there is only one bible, the Vulgate. and there is one authority, the Church... christian can encompass protestants and their bibles and scholars, all of which are completely outside my religion unless they say things that are in line with official Church teaching... otherwise their opinions are as binding to me as hindus.

the parable is in the vulgate, which is the first and only complete bible, it is included for the reasons i mentioned, it was always known and has always been accepted as historic and of apostolic origin... so it is canon. the earliest manuscripts (and you are talking exclusively of vaticanus and sinaiticus because it is in others), are manuscripts of a select group of folios, they are not complete gospels and certainly not bibles, they do not include the full gospels, nor the letters from the apostles so they are not complete new testaments, they do not include the Old Testament so they are not "bibles," they are just early attempts to codex the gospels.

ancient witness do refer to the pericope adulterae, many early Church Fathers refer to it directly in their sermons and their sermons demonstrate the listeners are already familiar with it. some of the earliest bishops as far off as egypt refer to it in their sermons in the second century. Papias is such an example

what you must understand is that the sacred scriptures of this time were not in one book, until the 5th century. the sacred scriptures were found in the comletely separate sources of the compiled tanakh, codices, folios, didache and what still remained in the oral tradition, they were libraries of material. St Jerome is the only person to have put this all into a single book called "the sacred scriptures" plural, which we shortened to "Bible" meaning books.

---do all scholars agree with u that it’s a true story ?
yes all catholic and orthodox scholars agree. protestants i do not know... their ideas are as disperse as the stars... i do not consider anything their scholars say that is not in line with the Holy Church to be "true," nor would any Catholic that adheres to Rome or any Orthodox that adheres to their Patriarch. there is no question of the parables canonicity.

Dios te bendiga
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-31-2007, 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
ok so why are some muslims sooo homophobic? like in U.K. mosques they preach how they want to kill homosexuals, and they have found books on how to secretly kill a homosexual without getting caught. is this islamic? do most muslims support this?
which mosque is that? u sure they do it? how do u know? no its not correct...:)
Reply

thirdwatch512
01-31-2007, 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by Tayyaba
which mosque is that? u sure they do it? how do u know? no its not correct...:)
they had a video on it on channel 4 in the UK. it was a mosque that starts with a D.. very popular one. and they were talking about killing homosexuals THREE times, and whoa i was scared and won't ever go to the U.K. with that attitude those people had lol
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-31-2007, 01:47 AM
i hope its fake :X
Reply

thirdwatch512
01-31-2007, 01:54 AM
i wish it was, but it wasn't. and then all of the muslims at the mosque (there were thousands, it's one of the biggest ones in the U.K.) started chanting allah u akbar or whatever once they said to kill homosexuals.
Reply

Jayda
01-31-2007, 01:54 AM
...
Reply

Jayda
01-31-2007, 01:57 AM
oh dear, i am very sorry tayyaba, i thought you meant the parable of the adulterous woman! i did not see the video you are talking about, please forgive me! i feel so foolish

i hope it is fake too... this is an awful thing i think it reinforces the kind of stereotypes that make people hate muslims... user England talks about these things often and they are always false.

Dios te bendiga
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-31-2007, 01:58 AM
LOL i was gunna say what ru talking about, i jus saw ur post and edited mine. its ok sis :)
Reply

Skillganon
01-31-2007, 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
they had a video on it on channel 4 in the UK. it was a mosque that starts with a D.. very popular one. and they were talking about killing homosexuals THREE times, and whoa i was scared and won't ever go to the U.K. with that attitude those people had lol
You can read about it in these threads:

1.http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...ght=dispatches

2. http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...ght=dispatches
Reply

Muslim Woman
01-31-2007, 02:09 AM
Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
ok so why are some muslims sooo homophobic? like in U.K. mosques they preach how they want to kill homosexuals, and they have found books on how to secretly kill a homosexual without getting caught. is this islamic? do most muslims support this?



Salaam/peace;


homosexuality is a major sin. If they don't repent & refuse to come back to the right path ordained by God & if the matter is taken to a court , then i guess , yes , judge has right to give him a death penalty.

But the accused person should be given all opportunities to repent & come back. To my knowledge , no Imam has any right to tell othres to kill a gay secretly & without enough proof. As i said , he will get chances to repent....if murder suddenly , then there is no chance for him to come back.

death penalty sounds a harsh punishment but if u compare this punihment with the life hereafter ( the eternal hell fire ) , then it's nothing . Anyway , i m not scholar , i will try to give u some Fatwa Insha Allah ( God Willing ) later.


Try to fear God.....avoid punishment in this world won't help u in the hereafter..pl. try to understand this simple thing.

May God help us all to follow His commands....Ameen.


Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-31-2007, 02:18 AM
^^Ameen.
Reply

thirdwatch512
01-31-2007, 02:35 AM
i don't fear God, i love god and have a relationship with Him! we shouldn't be scared of God!! he loves us lol. we should be scared if we do follow against Him, then yes. but yeah..
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-31-2007, 02:37 AM
Fearing Him is loving Him. Don't you fear hurting someone you care about by disobeying them? Fear doesnt mean u cant love Him. When you fear G-d, it only shows you love Him immensely.
Reply

chris4336
01-31-2007, 02:39 AM
Thirdwatch512 - There are some really good explanations about the "Death penalty for homosexuality" ruling on this board (maybe one of the mods can find it cause I can't - I think it was by Ansar?) It spoke about how the ruling can only be made in an Islamic state, and only if the behavior is made public and will be corrupting society (I hope I'm right, but I am not 100% sure). It certainly does not involve secretly killing homosexuals in the UK.

Anyway, back to topic, I too have struggled to read the Quran but I got through it all and now I'm reading it more slowly. I read somewhere that when you are reading it, it answers your questions as they come up, which I found to be completely true. Like you are reading and thinking something like "How could this possibly be true" and the next line is "And they ask how can this possibly be true." I don't know if I'm making much sense, but I found that to be a pretty amazing quality.

I have also really really enjoyed reading a biography of the Prophet.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-31-2007, 02:41 AM
^^I think your right sis. They cant do it publically. Only in the vicinity of their homes I think. Dont take my word for it tho :)
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-01-2007, 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by chris4336
...... I read somewhere that when you are reading it, it answers your questions as they come up, which I found to be completely true. Like you are reading and thinking something like "How could this possibly be true" and the next line is "And they ask how can this possibly be true." I don't know if I'm making much sense, but I found that to be a pretty amazing quality.

I have also really really enjoyed reading a biography of the Prophet.



Salaam/peace;

wooooow sis , u r a Muslim now ? Alhamdulillah.

let me congrates u :p & welcome to Islam ....i m s-o-o--ooooo happy :D

did u write ur revert story ? if not , will u pl?

thanks for sharing ur feeling while reading Quran. what's the name of the book (biography of the Prophet ) u enjoyed ?

Originally Posted by chris4336
.... It spoke about how the ruling can only be made in an Islamic state, ....

yap, this point came in to mind later ; at that time compu became so slow that i could not mention it....thanks .

I think , even in a Muslim majority country if Shariah law is not present , then this ruling may not be applicable....not 100 % sure though. I will Insha Allah check later.
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thirdwatch512
02-01-2007, 05:37 AM
interesting. now i do ask.. does the shariah apply for everyone in the shariah nation, or just the muslims?
Reply

Malaikah
02-01-2007, 07:25 AM
^Some rules apply only to the Muslims, some rules apply to everyone, non-Muslim included.
Reply

Malaikah
02-01-2007, 07:31 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
---- so if anybody enters my house , kill my family members , rape my sis , I will leave the matter to God only & won’t do anything to punish the killer & rapist ?
Can some one please answer this question?
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-01-2007, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
i don't fear God, i love god and have a relationship with Him! we shouldn't be scared of God!! he loves us lol. we should be scared if we do follow against Him, then yes. but yeah..
Salaam/peace;

Ok , good to know that u love God ; but does it give u any right to disobey Him ?

If u commit a major sin intentionally & regularly , then how it’s a proof that u really love Him ?

Do u believe , Jesus (p) will be very happy to see gay people on the Last Day ? Does not ur holy tell u how God punished gay in the
past ?
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-01-2007, 09:33 AM
Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
interesting. now i do ask.. does the shariah apply for everyone in the shariah nation, or just the muslims?
Salaam/peace;

I m browsing Fatwas , Insha Allah will sum up later :okay:
Reply

thirdwatch512
02-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/peace;

Ok , good to know that u love God ; but does it give u any right to disobey Him ?

If u commit a major sin intentionally & regularly , then how it’s a proof that u really love Him ?

Do u believe , Jesus (p) will be very happy to see gay people on the Last Day ? Does not ur holy tell u how God punished gay in the
past ?

I don't think it will be homosexuals who jesus will be worrying about.. i think it's the ACT of LUST that he will worry about. and i think that jesus will be happy to see everyone.. in the Bible there are tons of stories on how Jesus always looked at the bright side of people.. like the story of the tax collector.. he was a small, hated guy, because of course he was a tax collector. and atthat time tax collecotrs were very corrupted people. they would steal money, and this and that. anyways so jesus was there, and there were hundreds of people all gathered around Him. and then there was the tax collector, frowned upon, a short dude and i believe he was climbing a tree to see Jesus. anyways so then jesus called him up, and he came, and jesus didn't condemn him, or ask him to be stoned.. they talked, and yeah all went well. of course jesus did tell the man to stop being corrupt or whatever, but he didn't condemn him to death or anything. anyways i remember hearing that when i was in the second grade lol.

so i think when jesus sees us, he won't have a problem with me loving other guys. in fact i think he will be happy to see me being happy with another guy. but if we made lust and such, then yeah, he would prolly look down upon that.
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-02-2007, 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
interesting. now i do ask.. does the shariah apply for everyone in the shariah nation, or just the muslims?
salaam/peace;

u may visit these links:



Question: A non-Muslims debated with me regarding equality in Islamic Law. He said that in the Islamic state if a Muslim commits a crime – such as murder, for instance - against a non-Muslim, he will not be punished in the same way as a non-Muslim will be if the latter commits a crime against a Muslim. I feel this is untrue. Can you clarify please?

ans: According to the teachings of Islam, Muslims and non-Muslims – who live in the Islamic state – are treated equally.


Religion doesn’t make difference in applying the hudud or penalties and punishment in the Islamic state. If a Muslim, for example, kills a non-Muslim with no right, he has to be killed in retaliation, and vice versa.




Responding to the question, Sheikh `Abdul-Majeed Subh, a prominent Azharite scholar, states the following:


Brother, the claim that you referred to in your question is groundless and has no backing in the Islamic Law. All people, Muslims and non-Muslims, are equal before the Shari`ah with regard to penalties and punishments.



Scholars of Islam say that if a Muslim kills a non-Muslim unjustifiably, he has to be killed by the Islamic authority in charge of applying the penalties. The same is true also regarding killing a non-Muslim in retaliation if he kills a Muslim unjustifiably. This is according to the general instruction of the Qur’anic verse:


(And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation.


But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong doers.) (Al-Ma’idah 5: 45)


Related Questions
- Justice and Compassion: Ethics and Our Responsibilities

- Islamic Criminal Justice: Is it Barbaric?

- Basis of Harmony Between Shari`ah and Positive Law

- With the Passage of Time: Does Islam Have to Change?

- Islamic Fixed Penalties: Striking Balance between Causes & Results



Islamic Shari`ah Knows no Discrimination




Does Shari`ah Law Support Inequality?



Shari`ah Law does forbid a husband from claiming control of his wife’s earnings, capital, and holdings. She keeps it all. Compare that with the fact that in most Western nations, women could not own property at all until the late 19th/early 20th centuries.




According to Shari`ah Law, the wife is given a pre-determined financial sum at the time of the marriage (mahr), which is written down as a term of the “nikah” or marriage contract. The mahr is to ensure that the wife has enough finances in case of widowhood or sudden divorce.


.... Non-Muslims are called dhimmis and were required to pay a levy or jizya. The jizya was not paid as a bribe for practicing their faith, but rather as compensation for not serving in the army, protection for Crusading armies and tribal warfare. While most so-called journalists scream that the jizya is a tool of inequality, they fail to see that there is a tax levied on Muslims as well, the zakat, which non-Muslims are not required to pay.

Wisdom of Shari`a


Allah says: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits for Allah loves not the transgressors." (Al-Baqarah: 190)

This is a brief overview of civil laws in Islam that gives you a general idea about how far Islam has preceded modern laws from time immemorial, and has governed the relationships between individuals in an attempt to create an atmosphere of mercy and compassion


Civil Laws in Shari`ah




The family of a murdered person for example, has the right according to shari`a to:
1) Demand the death penalty for the murderer
2) Accept compensation of some type for their loss
3) Or, to show mercy to the murderer and allow him/her to go unpunished
Allah tells us in the Qur’an that mercy is the best route to take. Yet, He allows for retribution or compensation for those of us who are not able to forgive serious crimes against us.

Also, God’s love for the believers must outweigh His love for the determined criminal. It does not seem fair that the good and the evil receive the same treatment



What are the sources of Islamic Law?

answered by our revert bro :D
Daud Matthews





The International Institute of Islamic Thought
Herndon, Virginia USA


http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/B...af/Default.htm




The Importance of Shari`ah


The word shari`ah literally means a waterway that leads to a main stream, a drinking place, and a road or the right path. From this meaning, the word shari`ah was used to refer to a path or a passage that leads to an intended place, or to a certain goal.

Muslims believe that the purpose of their creation in nothing but servitude [being servants to the creator of mankind].
Reply

Umar001
02-02-2007, 09:08 PM
If any more off topics post are made I will close the thread, since it seems to be an indication that the topic is over and done with.

And what a nice topic it was, Alhamdulilah.
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-03-2007, 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
If any more off topics post are made I will close the thread, since it seems to be an indication that the topic is over and done with.

And what a nice topic it was, Alhamdulilah.
salaam/peace;

bro , instead of killing thread , can't u just delete off topic posts or move those to proper threads ? :hiding:
Reply

Skillganon
02-03-2007, 01:39 AM
I finished reading the Quran at quiet a young age 9+ in arabic (at least 3 times). Wen't a bit rusty on it after a while but back on track inshallah.

Now I am trying for once to understand it, so I am reading an english translation. Insallah I will finish reading it.

p.s. one day I will learn arabic enough to understand it better. People who know's arabic should be grateful for it.
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-21-2007, 10:10 AM


Salaam/peace;


Do u know if any other holy books have so many wonderful miracles like the following one ? :okay:

Reflections on the Medical Miracles of the
Holy Quran







Dr. Sharif Kaf Al Ghazal




The Quran which was revealed fourteen centuries ago to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) states:.... He makes his chest narrow, tight, as if he were climbing up to the sky.” (6:125)





The higher the man climbs up in sky the less is the oxygen



When people first heard of the verse of man’s climbing to sky (space) , they considered it as a sort of imagination, and that Quran regards the ascension to space in a metaphorical manner. Actually the verse is a prophecy that came true centuries after it was first revealed.




...... more the ascension increases, the more tightness reaches so critical and difficult stage that respiration is not possible any more. That’s why oxygen cylinders are taken when ascending up the sky, as in space ships !



.....An international patent for Quranic eye drops !




* Inspired by the shirt of Yousof (Joseph), an Egyptian Moslem scientist, unprecedently, managed to manufacture an eye drop to treat the cataract. How?


* Allah the Almighty describes Jacob: “And he turned away from them, and said, ‘Ah, how great is my grief for Joseph.’ And his eyes turned white because of the sorrow that he chocked within him.” (12: 84)

What Prophet Yousof (PBUH) did, through a revelation from Allah, was that he asked his brothers to take the shirt of healing to their father: “Go, take this shirt, and do you cast it on my father’s face , and he shall recover his sight; then bring me your family altogether.” (12: 93)



# What healing could be there in the shirt of the Prophet, Yousof ?
# After meditation, the Egyptian Moslem scientist, Dr. Abdul Basit Sayed Mohammed, did not find except sweat. He began to search the components of sweat.


...In Quran, Allah the Almighty says about the torment of hell fire; “such are given to drink boiling water, that tears their bowels asunder.” (47: 15)




It has been discovered that intestines are not affected with heat.
But if they are cut, hot water therein comes out into the peritoneum which is fed through the wall nerves feeding the skin, and the muscles of chest and abdomen. These nerves are affected with touch or heat, so the hot water, after intestines are cut, causes the highest degrees of pain.




“Say; ‘Think you, if Allah took away your hearing and your sight, and sealed up you hearts, who – a god other than Allah – could restore them to you?’” (6:46)

What are the possible reasons behind advancing "hearing" over "sight" in Quran ?



Hearing develops before sight in the embryo stage , and it is the first sense that functions in life.




In other words, Allah the Almighty conveys to us that it is hearing that functions at first. If a disturbing sound is produced near the newly born baby, he/ she feels terrified and cries.



But if a hand is approached near the same baby, he/ she does not move or sense any sort of danger. Ear is preferred over and more superior than the eye, as it does not stop function by sleep.




The eye needs light to see. Rays of light are reflected on things, then enter the eye to see things. If it is dark, the eye cannot function, but the ear can function day and night.



Ear is the link between man and the world. When Allah the Almighty decreed that the Men of the Cave sleep hundred of years, He said; “Then We smote their ears many years in the Cave.”



Hence when ear was out of function, men of the Cave were able to sleep hundred of years without any disturbance. Noisy daylight movements, contrary to night quietness, prevent man to sleep deeply. Yet the ears never sleep or lose attention.



Why is it, in the Holy Quran, that the word “ear” is always singular, while the word “eyes” is plural? Why could it not be “ears and eyes”, or “ear and eye”?

Breastfeed your baby even if with your eye-drops … !

In a very accurate scientific reference, the Quran determines the period of lactation with almost two years. In verse 14 of Surat Luqman: “And We enjoined on man concerning his parents- his mother bore him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning was in two years.” (31:14)


Finger Prints

Allah says in the Holy Quran : “I do swear by the Day of Resurrection. I do swear by the reproachful soul. Does man reckon We shall not gather his bones? Yes indeed; We are able to shape again the tips of his fingers.” (75: 1-4)



{لا أُقْسِمُ بِيَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ * وَلا أُقْسِمُ بِالنَّفْسِ اللَّوَّامَةِ * أَيَحْسَبُ الإِنسَانُ أَلَّنْ نَجْمَعَ عِظَامَهُ * بَلَى قَادِرِينَ عَلَى أَنْ نُسَوِّيَ بَنَانَهُ} القيامة 1-4



* Physicians conducted wide anatomical studies on a large number of people of different nationalities and ages, and they were confronted with the scientific fact to which they bowed their heads, and in submission they testified that no one is ever able to make similar all finger prints scattering all over the universe not even among two persons.




Conclusion



The Quran cannot be produced by any creature. It is the word of the Almighty God, the Originator of everything and the One Who encompasses everything with His knowledge. As how could any creature reveal such scientific facts and signs, as indicated above in some Quranic verses, that were impossible to be known with the level of knowledge at the time of revelation?

( To read the full artricle, Pl. visit link.)

http://www.islamicmedicine.org/medmi...iracleseng.htm
Reply

Curious girl2
02-21-2007, 10:37 AM
:sl:

I have read both. I was a Christian but now I am a Muslim. I still have my bible and occasionally I will look things up in it, usually to compare with somethign that I have read in my Qu'ran. There are many similarities between the 2, but when you consider that both are Abrahamic religions that isnt suprising.

:w:

CG
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-22-2007, 01:05 AM
Salaam/peace


Originally Posted by Curious girl2
:sl:

I was a Christian but now I am a Muslim. ...CG


Welcome to Islam :D


&&&

Q.What Does Islam Say About the Ten Commandments?



Does Islam believe in the covenant God made through Moses (the Ten Commandments)?




Ans: .. The Ten Commandments—with the exception of the fourth one, which deals with observance of the Sabbath—in essence and spirit constitute an integral part of the Qur’anic ethics and laws




…..“You shall have no other gods before Me” (Exodus 20: 2-3); in the Qur’an: (Your Lord has commanded that you worship none but Him) (Al-Isra’ 17: 23).


“You shall not make unto you any graven image … You shall not bow down to them or worship” (Exodus 20: 4–5); in the Qur’an, (Therefore keep away from the defiling idols.) (Al-Hajj 22: 30).


You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain” (Exodus 20: 7); In the Qur’an, (Make not Allah, by your oaths, a hindrance to your being righteous) (Al-Baqarah 2: 224).


“Honor your father and mother” (Exodus 20: 12); in the Qur’an: ((Your Lord has decreed) that you show kindness to your parents) (Al-Isra’ 17: 23).


“You shall not kill” (Exodus 20:13); in the Qur’an: (And kill not one another) (An-Nisa’ 4:29).


“You shall not commit adultery” (Exodus 20: 14); in the Qur’an: (Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts… And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts.) (An-Nur 24: 30-31)

“You shall not steal” (Exodus 20: 15); in the Qur’an: (They shall not steal) (Al-Mumtahanah 60: 12).

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20: 16); in the Qur’an: (You shall shun false testimony) (An-Nisa’ 4: 29).



“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house, you shall not covet you neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is your neighbor’s” (Exodus 20: 17); in the Qur’an: (Do not desire the things which Allah has given to some of you in preference to others) (An-Nisa’ 4: 32).


Excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.islam.ca

Allah Almighty knows best.

Please feel free to contact the Living Shari`ah editor at:
Living.Shariah@iolteam.com

Reply

czgibson
02-22-2007, 01:23 AM
Greetings,

In answer to the question in the thread title, I've read large sections of the Qur'an, but I've never read it all the way through. Failing to read all of it was partly down to sections I found confusing and partly down to the stylistically dreadful Yusufali translation I was reading from. Maybe one day I will work through a better translation, but I have to say that the intellectual content of the book doesn't particularly excite me, so it could be a while...

I don't have a holy book, being an atheist, but I've read lots of holy books from various religions. The ones I've found most interesting by far have been from the Buddhist tradition. What I like about Buddhist teaching is that it doesn't say "here is the truth: BELIEVE IT!", but "here is the truth: take it or leave it".

On the other hand, here is a quote from the Qur'an which I've always thought somewhat defeats the authoritarian logic found elsewhere within it: "Truth stands out clear from Error. (Qur'an 2:256)" Truth should make itself apparent to you by its own force; it shouldn't require someone to say: "this is the truth and you must believe it".

Peace
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-22-2007, 01:44 AM
Salaam/peace


Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

I've read large sections of the Qur'an......Failing to read all of it was partly down to sections I found confusing ...

---do u remember which part u found confusing ?

links for various translations of Quran in multi-languages & also the recitation & Quran search. U may save links & visit when u have time :)

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/quran/#Translations

English Translation of the Quran Recited

If you don't understand the Arabic, try reading along in your favorite translation and you will have tears in your eyes because its so beautiful.

http://www.lightuponlight.com/islam/...ownload&cid=16

[ i can't see video online , hope those will be worth watching :) ]

Originally Posted by czgibson
... here is a quote from the Qur'an which I've always thought somewhat defeats the authoritarian logic found elsewhere within it: "Truth stands out clear from Error. (Qur'an 2:256)" Truth should make itself apparent to you by its own force; it shouldn't require someone to say: "this is the truth and you must believe it".



--- God Almighty needs to tell us : "this is the truth and you must believe it". :p

otherwise , how we ( ordinary human being ) can know what is the Truth ?


Islam says ' there is no compulsion in religion '.....Truth stands out clear from Error.
what's the problems with the verse ? can u describe a little more , pl. ?


God created us but as an Atheist u may not believe in it :uuh:

God sent Prophets (pbut ) to teach us to worship God only & show gratitude to Him. To my knowledge , Buddist don't believe in hell & heaven.

If they are right , no problem for any of us at all :D ; but what if they are wrong & there is really hell & heaven ? ooooppps can u see the danger of it ? :scared:



Reply

czgibson
02-22-2007, 02:02 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
---do u remember which part u found confusing ?
Surah 2:62 is one verse that particularly baffled me. There's a thread around here somewhere showing my confusion abundantly, despite kind efforts from others to explain it to me.

here is a link for various translations of Quran in multi-languages & also the recitation & Quran search. U may save this link & visit when u have time :)
That is kind of you, thank you. :)

-- God Almighty needs to tell us : "this is the truth and you must believe it". :p

otherwise , how we ( ordinary human being ) can know what is the Truth ?
We could use our brains and find out what we think is the truth. Science, a human enterprise, is commonly thought of as having given us some truth over the centuries, no?

Islam says ' there is no compulsion in religion '.....Truth stands out clear from Error.
what's the problems with the verse ? can u describe a little more , pl. ?
I think what you've quoted is eminently sensible; it's just that, to me, it appears to conflict with other aspects of Islam. I certainly think there should be no compulsion in religion. However, if there is no compulsion in religion, why should a religious authorities have legal powers over blasphemy cases? Why do the Muslims I've met say things like 'we believe in angels because we have to'?

If 'truth stands out clear from error' (which it certainly doesn't in many cases), then why is it necessary for the creator to have someone broadcast the revelation of the Qur'an and tell humanity that they must believe it?
God created us but as an Atheist u may not believe in it :uuh:
As an atheist I do not believe that - you are right.

To my knowledge , Buddist don't believe in hell & heaven.
Some Buddhists do, I believe, but it's not a part of the core Buddhist teachings. Whether or not there is a god is something that is also largely irrelevant to Buddhist thought.

If they are right , no problem for any of us at all :D ; but what if they are wrong & there is really hell & heaven ? ooooppps can u see the danger of it ? :scared:
That's essentially a version of an old argument called Pascal's Wager. In the link I've provided you can find a summary of all the objections raised against it over the years.

Peace
Reply

Erundur
02-22-2007, 02:35 AM
:salamext:

czgibson, here is another website...www.quranicrealm.com You can both listen to the recitations and follow along with the translation of your liking.

Sahih International
Yusuf Ali
Muhsin Khan
Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall

are some of the few translators, I hope that helps.

:sl:
Reply

Muslim Woman
02-22-2007, 03:27 PM
Salaam/peace

Surah 2:62 is one verse that particularly baffled me.
---Here is a related link:


Q. Who are the Jews & Christians to be Rewarded by Allah?



Ans: ….What you refer to in your question is mentioned in two Qur’anic verses in the Qur’an. The first of them is the verse: Al-Baqarah: 62 ,


The second verse is: “Surely, those who believe, those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians – whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” (Al-Ma’idah: 69)




………….As far as the Jews are concerned, their faith meant believing in the Tawrat (original Torah) and following the way of Prophet Musa, peace and blessings be upon him, until Prophet `Isa came, after which whoever continued to follow the Torah and the way of Prophet Musa, and did not follow Prophet `Isa, was doomed.




As far as the Christians are concerned, their faith meant believing in the Injil (the Gospel) and following the laws of Prophet `Isa;

whoever did this was a believer whose faith was acceptable to Allah, until Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, came, after which whoever did not follow Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, and leave the way of Prophet `Isa and the Injil that he had been following before, was doomed.






The Qura’nic verse “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers”

(Al `Imran: 85) is a clear-cut statement that Allah will not accept any way or deed from anyone, after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance with the laws of Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him.


Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation.




So the Jews were those who followed Musa, peace be upon him, and referred to the Torah for judgment at that time.


When Allah sent Prophet `Isa, peace be upon him, the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him and obey him; so they and others who followed him became Christians.




When Allah sent Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the children of Adam, all mankind was obliged to believe in him and obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited.



Those who did so are the true believers. The Ummah of Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, are called the believers because of their deep faith and conviction, and because they believe in all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to come.”



Please feel free to contact the Living Shari`ah editor at:



Living.Shariah@iolteam.com

(Excerpted, with slight modifications, from
www.islam-qa.com)




Allah Almighty knows best.




We could use our brains and find out what we think is the truth. Science, a human enterprise, is commonly thought of as having given us some truth over the centuries, no?


----nope . We have so many different opinions, who will decide who is right & why & how ? In another thread , a Christian gay told me Jesus (p) will be happy to see him on the Last Day , I don’t think so . Who is right here ?



In another forum , an Atheist told me , he does not think there is any wrong to have an affair with step-mom ( ref: The Bold & beautiful ). I was shocked to read that. May be as an Atheist , u will support him but many won’t ; So , who will decide if having such an affair is right or wrong ?




if there is no compulsion in religion, why should a religious authorities have legal powers over blasphemy cases?


----no compulsion means we must not force anyone to accept Islam .It does not mean that others may use nasty languages in a free style against God Almighty or any Prophet of God.



I don’t believe in atheism but also I must not bash any atheist ; I m against gayism but I must not use dirty language against gays… right ? ( BTW , who will decide that ? :rolleyes: )



Why do the Muslims I've met say things like 'we believe in angels because we have to'?
---Muslims mean who surrendered themselves to God Almighty. So , for Muslims it’s a must to believe in God , life hereafter , angels etc as these are mentioned in Quran.


Whoever is an enemy to God and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! God is an enemy to those who reject Faith. (2:98 )


Don’t worry …..We will not go after Atheists to make them believe forcefully in angels :giggling:


…..why is it necessary for the creator to have someone broadcast the revelation of the Qur'an and tell humanity that they must believe it?


what’s the problem ? Either take it or leave it ….…no one is forcing u :p


That's essentially a version of an old argument called Pascal's Wager.


--- pl. tell me about ur opinion . If really there is life hereafter , on the Last Day , what will happen to non-believers ?


Reply

جوري
02-22-2007, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,




I think what you've quoted is eminently sensible; it's just that, to me, it appears to conflict with other aspects of Islam. I certainly think there should be no compulsion in religion. However, if there is no compulsion in religion, why should a religious authorities have legal powers over blasphemy cases? Why do the Muslims I've met say things like 'we believe in angels because we have to'?


Peace
I just want to comment on this part alone! Excluding "blasphemy cases" since I am not certan what you mean by that?

There much more to reading the Quran than just the transliteration that you can get in mulit-languages. If you browse through certain verses you'll find one word needing a sentence in English to convey its meaning. That is very powerful and you'd need to be a native Arabic speaker to really appreciate that, and one who is discerning with some abstract thinking as in not just mouthing off words let's say as my 6 year old nephew would read it!..... as for the part about the angels... perhaps it is a portion you skipped over or didn't touch you as much? as is described in the very beginning of chapter 2. When G-D uses the word "mo'min" a more powerful word than "Moslim" even more powerful than both is the word "mokhlis" as they describe different degrees in piety..... so why do we "blindly" believe in angels? Not because we have to and I am sorry you are given a poor answer..but because if you accept that this is the word of G-D.. YOu know that they exist as per the following verses-- when you quote something in science you usually back it up with research from trusted sources.....in religion you back it up with scriptures... now we can get into a topic of whether or not this is the word of G-D but if you'll accept that it is... then all else will fall into place....
بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
الم {1}
[Pickthal 2:1] Alif. Lam. Mim.

ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ {2}
[Pickthal 2:2] This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).

الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ {3}
[Pickthal 2:3] Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;

والَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِالآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ {4}
[Pickthal 2:4] And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter.

أُوْلَـئِكَ عَلَى هُدًى مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ {5}
[Pickthal 2:5] These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful

So from the above verses you can conclude why we believe in Angels... that is basically what it means to be a "mo'min" .....

peace to you cz... I often enjoy your posts.... as they are polite in nature!
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