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Lina
01-24-2007, 01:46 AM
:sl:


Several human rights group are calling on Morocco to change its penal code and become the first Arab nation to abolish the death penalty.
Morocco has not used the death penalty since 1994. There is a sense the nation is now ready to make an historic move.

Last month two Moroccans were sentenced to death for terrorism offences.

Only about 40 people have been executed in Morocco since independence - mostly for taking part in coup attempts against the former King Hassan II.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6291907.stm
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Dawud_uk
01-24-2007, 10:04 AM
assalaamu alaykum,

morocco isnt a nation ruled by shariah anyway, so i certainly would not want any brother executed in their courts when they have not been given a fair shariah trial but the death penalty is part of the huddud and we cannot refuse and say it is not or that is kufr as we are saying we know better than Allah.

So good and bad news i would suppose.

Assalaamu Alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 10:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

morocco isnt a nation ruled by shariah anyway,
Is there a country that does?

I don't think so, but Morocco does rule by some rules of the Sharia
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-24-2007, 10:27 AM
Dawud pretty much said it, death penalty without shariah isnt a good idea..
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FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 10:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Dawud pretty much said it, death penalty without shariah isnt a good idea..
Yes he is right but i was just curious if there was a country that rules wtih Sharia.'

Wassalam
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-24-2007, 10:41 AM
:salamext:

hmm, im not sure sis, i really doubt there is... perhaps the taliban strive most to implement it. Allahu a'lam
Reply

FBI
01-24-2007, 11:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

morocco isnt a nation ruled by shariah anyway, so i certainly would not want any brother executed in their courts when they have not been given a fair shariah trial but the death penalty is part of the huddud and we cannot refuse and say it is not or that is kufr as we are saying we know better than Allah.

So good and bad news i would suppose.

Assalaamu Alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

:sl:

Good point death without the sharia permitting it is just plain murder.
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FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 11:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
:salamext:

hmm, im not sure sis, i really doubt there is... perhaps the taliban strive most to implement it. Allahu a'lam
Their ahlul bid3a you want to read what the scholars say about them?
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-24-2007, 11:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowingAlhuda
Their ahlul bid3a you want to read what the scholars say about them?
ye theres a lot of difference, but subhanAllah i heard they got extremely learned men and strive to implement the sunnah.

Allahu a'lam, i dont think we should judge inshaAllaah.

Its just, there has to be a group "FIGHTING" for justice you know, taifa mansoorah, who is it? who else is fightin?
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KAding
01-24-2007, 11:33 AM
Good, I am against anyhow. There will be mistakes made in any legal system, be it one that is based on shariah or any other legal tradition. Thats because humans are the ones doing the investigation and judging. The death penalty makes it impossible to undo mistakes, which I really don't think is acceptable.
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-24-2007, 11:34 AM
obviously you dont believe in GOd, if i didnt think it to be from God, i wouldnt believe in it either. So your view is understandable.

But you see we think its from God and we see logic in it :)
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Dawud_uk
01-24-2007, 11:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowingAlhuda
Their ahlul bid3a you want to read what the scholars say about them?
assalaamu alaykum,

the scholars of jihad who actually met them and stayed with them spoke differently and said they were ahlus sunnah so spoke differently than the scholars who declared them innovators from a distance.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 11:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
ye theres a lot of difference, but subhanAllah i heard they got extremely learned men and strive to implement the sunnah.

Allahu a'lam, i dont think we should judge inshaAllaah.

Its just, there has to be a group "FIGHTING" for justice you know, taifa mansoorah, who is it? who else is fightin?
I'm not judging i was reverting to the Ulema. Well i can tell you that the Taliban are forsing Sunnah to people, that's not the way our Prophet (Peace and blessing upon him) and the Salaf.

This is the time of Tasfiya and Tarbiya as the scholars agree to this. This is the time to purify the religion from Shirk, bid3a and kufr. There are 1.4 billion muslims and the most of them are seeking age from the awlya. Asking the dead for help. Astaghfirollah....when is the age of Allah gonna come when the muslims are doing this...

Think about it brother, this is the time of tasfiya and tarbiye. The prophet (Peace and blessing be upon him) warned us that troughout the time it will get worse with the muslim ummah.

May Allah keep of on the pure path, may Allah keep us from shirk kufr innovations and innovators insha Allah!
Wassalam
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FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 11:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

the scholars of jihad who actually met them and stayed with them spoke differently and said they were ahlus sunnah so spoke differently than the scholars who declared them innovators from a distance.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Who are this schollars of jihaad brother?
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-24-2007, 11:59 AM
Ameen, i never heard of them forcing sunnah upon people btw. hmm may Allah make clear to us the right and wrong.
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FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 12:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Ameen, i never heard of them forcing sunnah upon people btw. hmm may Allah make clear to us the right and wrong.
Ameen

Well, they do i actually have some muslim girls in my school from Afghanistan. If you would hear what they do with the people. Just forcing them, that's not the way....
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-24-2007, 12:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowingAlhuda
Ameen

Well, they do i actually have some muslim girls in my school from Afghanistan. If you would hear what they do with the people. Just forcing them, that's not the way....
trustworthy muslim girls? mashaAllaah, Allaah knows best...
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FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 12:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
trustworthy muslim girls? mashaAllaah, Allaah knows best...
Yes Allah knows best,
the girls where just saying what they been trough...

But still my question
Who are the scholars of Jihaad?
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-24-2007, 12:53 PM
assalaamu alaykum,

are you saying the islamic state cannot force a women to cover if she refuses? or that you cannot force someone to pray if they are neglegent?

these are both positions of the hanafi madhab which the taliban followed.

i will try to chase down the fatwah i mentioned, i deleted it off my pc. i am not in the habit of keeping information such as that on my hard drive for obvious reasons but as a matter of islamic adhab it is for the one making the allegation to prove it not for me to disprove it.

so if you say they are of ahlus sunnah provide your proof.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 01:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

are you saying the islamic state cannot force a women to cover if she refuses? or that you cannot force someone to pray if they are neglegent?

these are both positions of the hanafi madhab which the taliban followed.

i will try to chase down the fatwah i mentioned, i deleted it off my pc. i am not in the habit of keeping information such as that on my hard drive for obvious reasons but as a matter of islamic adhab it is for the one making the allegation to prove it not for me to disprove it.

so if you say they are of ahlus sunnah provide your proof.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
No brother i'm telling that the way they ''convey'' the message to the people is not according to what the Prophet (Peace and Blessing be upon him) teached us.

I will insha Allah search for the proove, i also had in on my pc but i deleted it.
Reply

FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 01:48 PM
This is an Arabic audio from Sheikh Fawzaan about the situation in Afghanistan.

http://www.spubs.com/sps/sad/mp3.cfm?scn=dl&LeID=4

and this is an article read it insha Allah:
__________________

Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee speaks about current affairs...



After praising and thanking Allaah and sending prayers and peace upon the Messenger, Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee said:



The correct and upright Islam is a religion which has finalised all other religions (i.e. is the seal of all other religions) and it is a complete religion for all affairs of life. Allaah has decreed happiness and success for the one who abides by and applies it, in this life and next.



{Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a Wasat (just and balanced) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad) be a witness over you}, [Soorah al-Baqarah, Aayah 143]



Hence, Islam is a balanced and moderate way, and it does not enter into negligence on the one hand and nor exaggeration or extremism on the other. It is balanced in between and the Muslim nation is also balanced and upon a middle course.



Thus, Islam is balanced in everything, in its creed, in its worship, and it is far removed from both shortcoming and exaggeration. Likewise, in its economy it is also balanced in between those who wish to confiscate money by every right and between those who wish excessive liberalism and encourage it to be given in abundance (above and beyond what is appropriate). In addition, Islam encourages equity and justice amidst both Muslims and non-Muslims.



{Verily, Allaah enjoins al-'Adl (i.e. justice) and al-Ihsaan (good conduct), and giving (help) to kith and kin: and forbids al-Fahshaa. (i.e all evil deeds, e.g. illegal sexual acts, disobedience of parents, polytheism, to tell lies, to give false witness, to kill a life without right, etc.), and al-Munkar (i.e all that is prohibited by Islamic law), and al-Baghy (i.e. all kinds of oppression), He admonishes you, that you may take heed}, [Soorah an-Nahl, Aayah 90]



Further, Allaah has also prohibited oppression for himself, and has likewise prohibited His servants from oppression, [saying, as quoted by the Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) in the Hadeeth Qudsee]:



«O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another», [Reported in Saheeh Muslim from Abu Dharr al-Ghifaaree]



He has also forbidden transgression and aggression and enmity and harm against others, whatever form this may take. He has also ordered the fulfilment of agreements and obligations and has also forbade the killing of those non-Muslims which Muslim countries have agreements with. The Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said:



«Allaah has forbidden the smell of Paradise for the one who kills a Mu'aahid (one with whom there is a pact or agreement»).



And He also forbade the Mujahideen from killing women, children, the elderly, and the ascetics who are devoted to worship, as well as forbidding the cutting down of trees and so on – despite the fact that the associates of these categories of people may be involved in fighting with the Muslims.



Based upon what has preceded, then we say that that which we believe and hold as our religion concerning what happened to the World Trade Centre in America – and in Allaah lies success – that the terrorist attacks that took place and what occurred of general (mass) killing, then it is not permissible and Islam does not allow it in any form whatsoever. Islam frees itself from this action, regardless of whether those responsible for it were Muslims or non-Muslims. And none of the scholars who are upon the correct form of Islam, affirm the likes of these actions. The likes of these actions, in any place or time, which happen here and there, were never known in Islam, ever. In fact, never since Allaah sent the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) till this time of ours. These actions were never known amongst Islam and the Muslims – assassination of innocent people and bombings and widespread murder.



So Islam does not allow them and nor do Muslims perform them, and the true followers of Islam – which is balanced and moderate – then they free themselves from these actions and from those who performed them, regardless of whether they were Muslims or non-Muslims. This is oppression and Islam forbids it.



In this Centre there were none but innocent non-Muslims and Muslims, from all the various parts of the world, of different races. They had material possessions and assets in these buildings, and so all of this is impermissible and this is oppression upon both Muslims and non-Muslims. Even if people (who were responsible) claim that they had valid reasons for perpetrating this, then this is not the correct way.



It is obligatory upon the Muslims in this country and elsewhere and upon the students of knowledge to explain that this action is free from Islam, and that Islam is free from these actions. I request them to make clear this issue, with certainty and to be truthful when they explain this issue, without compromising the religion of Islam, and without giving a bad impression of Islam.



And we say, to whomever has justice and fairness amongst the non-Muslims, that they should reflect upon this matter, and not take it out on innocent Muslims and Arabs, for there are millions of them in the United States. They should also not take anything from the media without question. It is desirable for the American people to understand that Islam does not support these affairs, and that they should not use the media in order to ascribe these actions to Islam. And the Muslims in those areas should participate in explaining that these affairs are not from Islam.



In ending, I hope from the students of knowledge specifically and the Muslims generally that they return to the scholars in the likes of these affairs, and that they should return to the Muftee of our country, and to what they have explained of the freedom of Islam from the likes of these affairs. It is obligatory upon the world to listen to the word of the Muslims, and to the correct Islam, just like it is upon the students of knowledge in the West that they strive to explain the correct Islam, balanced between neglect and exaggeration – the Islam that calls to justice and which calls for the removal of oppression.



May Allaah guide us to what He loves and is pleased with. Prayers and peace upon the Prophet, his family and companions.



Question: What is your ruling or view on the Taliban?



Response: They are a mixture of Soofiyyah and other things, but they are still Muslims, most of them in that land are Muslims. And we do not say that just because of that it is permissible to raise a war against them. But most of them are not upon the correct 'aqeedah and the correct form of Islam. And what is amazing is that some people want to help Islam but by not having the correct 'aqeedah they do more harm to Islam. But we still do not say that they are Kuffaar. Because Afghanistan is a Muslim country overwhelmingly. As for what is happening now of aggression against Afghanistan, we hold it is not from wisdom and it is not correct to do this. Since there is no proof at all. Even some of the so called hijackers, some of them have actually been dead for a number of years [and others alive]. So there is no clarity yet at all.



And the Afghanis, they used to fight each other for power and other affairs. But now they must unite together and come together and they should unite upon the word of Tawheed and purify themselves. As for what happened on 11th September then that does not justify in any way, making conquests in the lands of the Muslims.
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Dawud_uk
01-24-2007, 02:05 PM
assalaamu alaykum,

i could post many fataawah from the scholars who have been there, not actually just heard about it from afar, although such fataawah as this are valid surely you would agree those who have been there have more knowledge of the issue?

i wish to start a thread called 'The Taliban, Ahlus Sunnah or not?' from there i will link it in to this and any other thread where people slander the taliban and ask that people when they make such accusations keep them to that thread or link them in.

do you agree? are the mods ok with this? it is just these old allegations keep popping up and getting disproved but then someone else makes the same allegation with the same sources later on.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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Skillganon
01-24-2007, 02:12 PM
Go on. I will like to see some information
Reply

FollowingAlhuda
01-24-2007, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

i could post many fataawah from the scholars who have been there, not actually just heard about it from afar, although such fataawah as this are valid surely you would agree those who have been there have more knowledge of the issue?

i wish to start a thread called 'The Taliban, Ahlus Sunnah or not?' from there i will link it in to this and any other thread where people slander the taliban and ask that people when they make such accusations keep them to that thread or link them in.

do you agree? are the mods ok with this? it is just these old allegations keep popping up and getting disproved but then someone else makes the same allegation with the same sources later on.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
I think that's a good idea brother...
That would make it clear and really want to know who the scholars are that went there...

Wa Allahu ta'ala a3lem

Wassalam
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-24-2007, 02:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FollowingAlhuda
I think that's a good idea brother...
That would make it clear and really want to know who the scholars are that went there...

Wa Allahu ta'ala a3lem

Wassalam
here is the link,

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...tml#post635628

please keep all discussion about the status of the taliban to this thread.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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snakelegs
01-25-2007, 04:18 AM
i wish the u.s. would.
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