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mariam.
01-25-2007, 12:04 PM
secret room in the age of the christian Inquisitions:

I was still young at that time . I could not comprehend what was going on backstairs . Every time I came back from school -on seeing me- my father got embarrassed and turned white . I used to tell him what I learnt by heart from the Bible and what new Spanish lessons I learnt .On finishing talk with him , he left me and made his way to his room that was in the furthest part in my house – that room that no one was allowed to approach its door . He used to spend a lot of time in this room and go out with red eyes as if he sobbed long . For some days , he kept looking at me so passionately and sadly and muttered some words …….In case of standing listening to him , he would give me his back and went way uttering no single word . I always found my mother , in tears and overpowered by sadness every time she saw me to the school ,she never let me go without hugging and kissing me so warmly and passionately , on leaving her , she called me again to kiss me once more as if her love and passion had not been quenched yet . She would not leave me unless she cried and her eyes were filled with tears . All the day long , I felt the warmth of her tears on my cheek . I wondered why she did that and I found no reasons .On coming back home from school , she would receive me eagerly with a heart filled with yearning, as if I had been absent for ten years. Sometimes my parents would sit a side a little distance from me and talk in whisper in a language that I did not know . If I came close , they stopped talking and talked about something else in Spanish . I left them imagining various vain thoughts about myself to the extant that I thought that I was not their son and that I was a foundling that they found me in the street . So, Pain overwhelmed me and I would take a solitary corner in my house* and stayed lonely crying bitterly . Many days passed as such till I had unusual mood that differed from that of the other fellow children . So I did not participate in their play and amusement and I turned away from them and sat lonely putting my head between the palms of my hands and then absorbed myself in contemplation in search of a solution to this problem , I would remain doing this till I felt the priest grabbing me by my shirt to go with him to the church to do the prayer.
One day , I was filled with happiness that my mother gave birth to a beautiful child and when I gave my father the glad tiding of this event , he did not rejoice and no smile was drawn on his lips but stood up dragging his leg and began to move with a heart filled with agony to the priest to invite him to baptize the baby .The priest came to our house and in his foot steps my father was walking and* bending low his head in complete despair and extreme sadness .My father led him to the room where my mother was . When I looked at my mother's face , I found her face fading and turning pale and her eyes starring wide in terror . On seeing the priest ,she pushed the baby to the priest , her face was reflecting every meaning of fear and then she closed here eyes . I was deeply puzzled as I couldn't justify such incidents and my pains grew more and more .
It was the Easter day when Granada was submerged in lights and the Alhambra Palace was glittering with torches and lights and the crosses flashes with lights on the windows and minarets ( turned to be churches minarets ) when father called me at midnight while the members of my family were sleeping , he led me without uttering a word to his room –his sacred place . My heart trembled with fear and I was embarrassed but I succeeded to be firm and consistent .When he went inside the room he locked the door firmly and began to search for the lamp and I remained standing in the darkness of the room for moments that – to me- were longer than years .
He lighted the small lamp that was there in the room , When I turned a round I saw nothing but an empty room though I expected to see wonders , all I could see were a small piece of rug , a book on a shelf and a sword hung on the wall . He seated me on the rug and he remained silent staring at me . These looks , the awe of the place and the quietness of the darkness mixed up in my heart and my eyes that I felt my self segregated from the life that I left behind this door .I felt as if I had been moved to another life that I could not describe my feelings towards it . Then father took my hand with compassion and kindness and said to me in a low voice " My son , you are now ten years old , and you have become a man . I will tell you the secret that I concealed from you for a long time . Can you keep this secret in your heart ? can you conceal it from mother , your family , your friends and even from all the people?
My son " just a single fault from you would subject your father's body to torment and torture by the lacing men of Inquisition "
On hearing this word , I was completely overwhelmed by fear . Truly I was still young but I know what inquisition meant . On my way to the school and on my way home , I used to see its victims every day , men were either crucified or burnt alive , as to women they were either hung by hair till they died or their bellies were cut open, so I kept silent and uttered no word .
So father said to me " why don't you answer my question ? Can you conceal what I am going to tell you ?"
I answered saying :"yes"
"Can you conceal it even from your mother ?"
I said "yes"
Then he said " come a little closer , I can't raise my voice otherwise we are heard ,and then we are reported to the iniquities and burnt alive .
So I came close and said I am listening father.
Then he pointed to the book on the shelf and said
"Do you know this book, my son ?"
I said " No"
"This is God's Book!"
"Oh yes , that's the Bible of Jesus , the son of God." , I said.
He got confused and said " No , this is the Holy Quran, that God revealed ,God is the One and Only; the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him, That is the Book that God revealed to the Arab prophet Mohummed , peace be upon him , the best of His creatures and the master of His prophets."
I opened my eyes with astonishment , I could hardly understood anything
This is the Book of Islam , Islam is the religion that God sent Mohummed with to all the people .
So prophet Mohummed appeared there -overseas and beyond deserts . He appeared there in a far barren desert , in Meca , he appeared among the Bedouin ignorant polytheists, and he guided them to monotheism and he gave them unity, force , science and civilization , so they invaded countries lying between the east and the west to spread God's Word till they reached this island , till they reached Spain . They administered justice among people , and treated them well and made their life and wealth secure . They stayed is Spain for eight hundred years during that period they made Spain the most civilized and among the most beautiful countries all over the world .
"Yes , my son , we are the Arabs Moslem "
I couldn't contain my excitement ,I could not control my Tongue because of the surprise , the fear and the admiration , then I shouted " Secure you….? What …? We…? The Arab Moslems ?
Yes , "my son , we are the owners of these cities and towns , we built these palaces for ourselves but became our enemies' , we built these minarets where the call prayer used to echo but later became minarets where the bells ring , we built these mosques where Moslems used to stand arrayed before God , They used to stand arrayed* and their imams standing before them reciting God's Word in the niche , these mosques became churches , where priest and clergymen recite the Bible ."
"Yes my son , we are The Arabs, who have remains under every spot in Spain and under every span of the hand , we have mortal remains of one of our grandfathers or a martyr ! yes my son , we did* build these cities , we did construct these bridges , we did pave and prepare these roads , we did dig these canals , we did plant these trees."
"But forty years ago – are you listening – forty years ago, the miserable king Abo Abd Allah Al-Sageer ,the last of our kings was deceived by the promises and covenants of the Spanish people, so he gave them the keys of Granada and allowed them to take our fortresses and castles ,he deserted defending fortress of his nation, and the cemeteries of his forefathers and made his way to Morocco to die there lonely , expelled and fugitive , they took upon themselves to keep our freedom , justice and independence and when they owned our land they went back on their promises which they gave and betrayed us . They set up inquisitions (courts) and they forced us to embrace Christianity and leave our language forcedly . Moreover they took our children to bring them up on Christian tenet and that is why we worship God secretly . The contempt of our religion and bringing our children up on infidelity have inflicted us with sadness and distress "
"Forty years through which we have been enduring such torment that boulders could not bear , forty years , my son we have been waiting for God's relief , we have never been desperate because despair is forbidden in Islam – the religion of power , patience and striving in the way of Allah .
"This is the secret my son!! Do conceal it and be careful !! Your father's life is depending and connected with a word from your mouth , I swear by God , I don't fear death nor do I hate meeting God but I like to remain alive to teach you your language and your religion and take you from the darkness of fidelity to the light of belief . Now go to your bed."
Later on , every time I saw the window of Alhambra Palace or the minarets of Granada I felt shocked violently and I felt yearning and sadness , hatred and love overwhelming my heart. I often engross myself in deep contemplation forgetting my self and when I came to my sense, I circumambulated it and addressed it and blamed it saying "Oh my dear city , oh my ungrateful beloved !" Have you forgotten your daughters , have you forgotten your owners who fed you with their souls and their hearts , those who quench your thirst with their blood and tears –why then do you ignore their days and deny their love ?"
"Have you forgotten your brave kings , those who wandered about in your foyers , those who defended you ,

those who gave you overflowing glory , greatness , gaiety and beauty, Have you forgotten those generous noble kings ? Those who , whenever they speak , all peoples listened in submission, those who , whenever gave orders , the aeon , in submission will obey !! Have you got accustomed* with the bells instead of the prayer calls ? Have you been satisfied with the priests instead of the Moslems Imams."
Then , I felt afraid and I ran home to learn the Arabic lessons that father gave me , and* lest the spy's of the inquisition should hear me . Father's picture is still in my mind as yet asking me to write the foreign letter then he wrote by it the Arabic letter teaching me how to pronounce and write it saying "these are our letters" . Then he gave a lesson in religion and taught me how to perform ablution and prayer so that I could stand behind him praying secretly in this great room .
I was a afraid that I unbosom myself . The fear that I uttered a slip of tongue by which I revealed* the secret that never parted with me .Father sometimes examined me and sent mother to say to me " What does father teach you ?" I answered saying " nothing ", she said " you know what he teaches you , don't conceal it from me ." ,I said " He does not teach me any thing " . Father had been teaching me till I perfected the Arabic language and understood the Holy Quran and knew the rules of religions . Later father introduced me to one of his brothers in God and we used to meet and to worship God and to recite Quran .
The inquisition cruelty aggravated and began to torture the rest of the rest of the Arabs ,No day was to pass without bad news , hundreds of people were tormented severely and horribly , their nails were taken out and they were made to drink water till they lose breath and they burnt their legs and flanks . Their fingers were cut and burnt and put in their mouths . they were lashed tell their flesh scattered.
These conditions had lasted for a long time . one day my father said to me " My son ,I feel that the moment I die is so near (that is his time to die) and I wish I could met my martyrdom at the hands of those people so that God bestows on me the paradise , I have no desire in this world after I take you out of the darkness of heathendom and after I entrust a big faithfulness to you that I could hardly bear." and continued to say " If adversities afflicted me , obey this generous man and don't disobey him." And days passed till the most doleful black night came , it was the night when this generous man asked me to go with him saying that God has facilitated for us a way to escape to Morocco . I replied what about father and mother ? He scolded me and grabbed my hand saying " Didn't your father command you to obey me ?" so I go with him abased though I hated that till we went a little further and till* darkness covered us then he said to me " Be patient my son because God has bestowed happiness on your parent at the hands of the inquisition ."
This boy successfully reached the border of Morocco , This boy became the great scientist Mohummed Abd Al-Rafee Al-Andlosy , who wrote a lot of references and volumes ... :laugh:

what do you think about imsad ?
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Dawud_uk
01-25-2007, 12:14 PM
mashallah, it is well written though the grammar needs working on.

may Allah reward you, i think muslim writing is greatly ignored these days.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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mariam.
01-25-2007, 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
mashallah, it is well written though the grammar needs working on.

may Allah reward you, i think muslim writing is greatly ignored these days.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
:rolleyes: thank you for your reply .. but
this is the true story of the great scientist Mohummed Abd Al-Rafee Al-Andlosy .. it's not imagination
thank you again ... peace
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Malaikah
01-25-2007, 12:36 PM
:sl:

Is that really a true story? Amazing read! Thanks for sharing.
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Keltoi
01-25-2007, 12:47 PM
The Inquisition was brutal with everyone, Christian, Muslim, and Jew alike. It was a response to the spread of the Protestant Reformation in large part. Martin Luther and John Calvin attempted to change the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church responded with brute force to secure its hold. I'm not anti-Catholic, far from it, but this was the darkest chapter in Catholic history.
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Dawud_uk
01-25-2007, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
The Inquisition was brutal with everyone, Christian, Muslim, and Jew alike. It was a response to the spread of the Protestant Reformation in large part. Martin Luther and John Calvin attempted to change the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church responded with brute force to secure its hold. I'm anti-Catholic, far from it, but this was the darkest chapter in Catholic history.
it is true a lot of non conformist christians were killed by the inquisition, but you are wrong to define it as anti-protestant in character.

it was brought brutally into force in all areas newly conquered from the muslims, who had previously allowed non conformist christians and jews to practice their faith also so all three communities were suppressed and forced to convert or die.

or in the case of many muslims and jews, convert and then die later in forced marches and transportations just.

what is incorrect is that this event be viewed as a one off, the catholic church has been at this since its very beginnings, killing and murdering, torturing and doing other terrible things.

Abu Abdullah
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Keltoi
01-25-2007, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
it is true a lot of non conformist christians were killed by the inquisition, but you are wrong to define it as anti-protestant in character.

it was brought brutally into force in all areas newly conquered from the muslims, who had previously allowed non conformist christians and jews to practice their faith also so all three communities were suppressed and forced to convert or die.

or in the case of many muslims and jews, convert and then die later in forced marches and transportations just.

what is incorrect is that this event be viewed as a one off, the catholic church has been at this since its very beginnings, killing and murdering, torturing and doing other terrible things.

Abu Abdullah
Actually that isn't true. The Catholic Church did endorse the Crusades, but that was the first time the Church actively endorsed violence. The Protestant Reformation was the primary catalyst for the Inquisition. That doesn't mean the Inquisition was only directed at break-away Christian groups, it was directed at witches, heretics. Muslims, Jews, etc. The Catholic Church feared the erosion of its influence and power, exactly the fault that Martin Luther and John Calvin saw with the Church. The Inquisition was an effort to hold on to power with brute force and the tactic of fear. That doesn't mean the Inquisition was formed with bad intentions. It was actually quite popular among the Catholic population, especially in Spain.
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- Qatada -
01-25-2007, 01:26 PM
:salamext:


Ukhti, is there any more?..
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Dawud_uk
01-25-2007, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Actually that isn't true. The Catholic Church did endorse the Crusades, but that was the first time the Church actively endorsed violence. The Protestant Reformation was the primary catalyst for the Inquisition. That doesn't mean the Inquisition was only directed at break-away Christian groups, it was directed at witches, heretics. Muslims, Jews, etc. The Catholic Church feared the erosion of its influence and power, exactly the fault that Martin Luther and John Calvin saw with the Church. The Inquisition was an effort to hold on to power with brute force and the tactic of fear. That doesn't mean the Inquisition was formed with bad intentions. It was actually quite popular among the Catholic population, especially in Spain.
would recommend you read blood on the cross by Ahmed Thompson which is a good history of the church and its blood soaked past.

the follow up to it is 'islam in andalus,' and shows the rise and fall of islam in spain, warts and all.

obviously they are both by a muslim but i understand he used to be a christian priest so can see both sides of the debate.

Abu Abdullah
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mariam.
01-25-2007, 04:43 PM
Peace be upon you all:
in fact .. I estimate your view and I believe that you are right
You have preference to said that ..
When you see who killes their brother and sister in humanity In the name of Islam .. You have right to say that
Please read this koranic vers:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand hold, never breaks. and God heareth and knoweth all things."That's what God order us to do .. That is the real islam
In the other side I believe that jesus peace be upon him doesn't ask you to do that …
But all this crimes that happened in the past in the name of christian is truth you can't disprove it
I want you all moslems and christian to look with your heart to each other as human
This story is happened every day in Palestine .. Iraq .. Shishan ..
And others
Why we should suffer jews faults and sins .. Now after 3000 years?
Why we can't just dreaming to return to Andalus that we lost either becouse of our faults and sins ..Only after 700 years?
Why all the world confirm jews right to reoccupy palastine now?
Why we can't just said that we have right to regain cordoba to be mosque?
What jews gave to us except damage, kill, recism and poverty?
What we give to Andalus except knowledge, fairness, improvement, civilzation?
Both make mistakes and leave the godly legislation .. Why this partial view?
So .. let's use our humanity to love,understand,compassionate, recognize each other.. Moslems .. Christians .. Jews.
Let's judge on each other religion by it's precepts not by it's follower deed.
…peace
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- Qatada -
01-25-2007, 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by mariam.
Peace be upon you all:
in fact .. I estimate your view and I believe that you are right
You have preference to said that ..
When you see who killes their brother and sister in humanity In the name of Islam .. You have right to say that
Please read this koranic vers:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand hold, never breaks. and God heareth and knoweth all things."That's what God order us to do .. That is the real islam
In the other side I believe that jesus peace be upon him doesn't ask you to do that …
But all this crimes that happened in the past in the name of christian is truth you can't disprove it
I want you all moslems and christian to look with your heart to each other as human
This story is happened every day in Palestine .. Iraq .. Shishan ..
And others
Why we should suffer jews faults and sins .. Now after 3000 years?
Why we can't just dreaming to return to Andalus that we lost either becouse of our faults and sins ..Only after 700 years?
Why all the world confirm jews right to reoccupy palastine now?
Why we can't just said that we have right to regain cordoba to be mosque?
What jews gave to us except damage, kill, recism and poverty?
What we give to Andalus except knowledge, fairness, improvement, civilzation?
Both make mistakes and leave the godly legislation .. Why this partial view?
So .. let's use our humanity to love,understand,compassionate, recognize each other.. Moslems .. Christians .. Jews.
Let's judge on each other religion by it's precepts not by it's follower deed.
…peace


:salamext:


Subhaan Allaah.. thats really true.
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Jayda
01-25-2007, 08:47 PM
hola,

what is this thread for... nothing good can come of this...

why do muslims say they do not believe in violence but say horrible things about jews, celebrate what they did to spain and talk about how they want it to happen again? i do not mean this as a counterpunch, but i understand the setting seems this way... i am genuinely afraid of you when you talk about these things because of what you are saying, the things you seem to believe about muslim expansion in spain, and how eager you seem to be for a return of this...

Dios te bendiga
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Umar001
01-26-2007, 12:14 AM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola,

what is this thread for... nothing good can come of this...

why do muslims say they do not believe in violence but say horrible things about jews, celebrate what they did to spain and talk about how they want it to happen again? i do not mean this as a counterpunch, but i understand the setting seems this way... i am genuinely afraid of you when you talk about these things because of what you are saying, the things you seem to believe about muslim expansion in spain, and how eager you seem to be for a return of this...

Dios te bendiga
Fill me in, it seems like your saying the Muslims done alot of violence and wish for the violence to come again.
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Muhammad
01-26-2007, 12:24 AM
:sl: and Greetings,

I thought it was a very interesting read... not only was it a glimpse of history but also an insight into the lives of those who held on to their faith and were forced to practice in secret. The Inquisition has already been discussed elsewhere on the forum so it would perhaps be best to avoid the subject here.

why do muslims say they do not believe in violence but say horrible things about jews, celebrate what they did to spain and talk about how they want it to happen again?
I think you may have misunderstood what has been said. We do not celebrate any violence that took place in Spain and nor do we wish for violence to occur. It is only the fact that such beautiful Mosques were built by Muslims and then converted for other uses, that some Muslims feel they should be restored for their original purpose. But this does not mean that violence is the means by which it should occur.
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Jayda
01-26-2007, 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Fill me in, it seems like your saying the Muslims done alot of violence and wish for the violence to come again.
hola Al Habeshi,

yes... this is my impression... you all talk about the muslim conquest of spain or other places as though they were good things and you want them to come back... on another thread somebody told an inappropriate joke about killing british troops and there is frequent slander about jewish people...

in my mind, or how it was explained to me, islam does not delight in violence and muslims considered the conquest of innocent people during its history to be missteps... also, as it was explained to me vitriol directed to jewish people is born out of ignorance... not religion...

but these historic misteps are talked about longingly... and this viewpoint of jewish people and delight in killing enemies is freely said and very rarely opposed except in the most extreme or gross examples... this concerns me a lot, because i do not know how much of this is misguidance and pride, or if what was explained to me was just wrong.

but this is not here or there, i want to know why muslims have these conflicting mindsets so comfortably... the conquest was not peaceful, but you say islam means peace, why do you cherish a virtue and the fruits of its opposing vice at the same time?

muchos gracias,
Dios te bendiga
Reply

mariam.
01-26-2007, 10:33 AM
peace be upon who follow the truth and seek for it:

Originally Posted by Jayda
hola,

what is this thread for... nothing good can come of this...
Iam sorry to said that but .. it's to know the truth that you can't disprove it.
all this crimes happened in the past in the name of christian..
and now you want us to forget .. you want us to believe that your real religion don't ask you to do this horrible things.
in the other side you look to us as terroristic .. why becouse of immoderate minority .. that didn't know any thing about islam.

why do muslims say they do not believe in violence but say horrible things about jews,
please can tell me about this horrible things :rolleyes: ..

celebrate what they did to spain and talk about how they want it to happen again? i do not mean this as a counterpunch, but i understand the setting seems this way... i am genuinely afraid of you when you talk about these things because of what you are saying, the things you seem to believe about muslim expansion in spain, and how eager you seem to be for a return of this...
please read my second reply in this thread .. peace
Reply

Jayda
01-26-2007, 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by Muhammad

I think you may have misunderstood what has been said. We do not celebrate any violence that took place in Spain and nor do we wish for violence to occur. It is only the fact that such beautiful Mosques were built by Muslims and then converted for other uses, that some Muslims feel they should be restored for their original purpose. But this does not mean that violence is the means by which it should occur.
hola Muhammad,

gracias for your reply. i think maybe we are talking about different things... i certainly understand muslims longing for the beautiful mosques that they built... i think asking for them back from Spain is inappropriate but we have discussed this elsewhere.

but in that conversation and elsewhere there were people talking about how spain was "taken away" from muslims by God for some reason and that they desire to "have it back" again... i do not understand how muslims can consider the conquest a historic misstep, but then attribute what they did to Gods guidance... it is even more concerning when people talk about wanting spain 'back' because to me it conjures up images of what is happening in palestine and israel... people who do not live there using a historic presence to invade and strip the people living their of their home and culture...

muslims could not possibly ever be welcomed or invited into spain as rulers, and if the historic example is looked at so reverently this could only mean invasion, violence and oppression... things that i am not certain do not have a place in islam, i know many of these things are in the quran, but i do not read the quran as a muslim and do not know how muslims view the context of such events... which is why i rely on muslims to explain islam in practice... but now i see two vastly different minds on this...

but maybe you are saying that when muslims talk about "al andalus" they are meaning only the mosques? i do not exactly understand... i think there is a possibility we are talking about different things...

Dios te bendiga
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-26-2007, 10:46 AM
they were forced to worship in secret... and we have the freedome to worship whenever we pleace...


which of the favors of your lord do you deny?...
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-26-2007, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola Muhammad,

gracias for your reply. i think maybe we are talking about different things... i certainly understand muslims longing for the beautiful mosques that they built... i think asking for them back from Spain is inappropriate but we have discussed this elsewhere.

but in that conversation and elsewhere there were people talking about how spain was "taken away" from muslims by God for some reason and that they desire to "have it back" again... i do not understand how muslims can consider the conquest a historic misstep, but then attribute what they did to Gods guidance... it is even more concerning when people talk about wanting spain 'back' because to me it conjures up images of what is happening in palestine and israel... people who do not live there using a historic presence to invade and strip the people living their of their home and culture...

muslims could not possibly ever be welcomed or invited into spain as rulers, and if the historic example is looked at so reverently this could only mean invasion, violence and oppression... things that i am not certain do not have a place in islam, i know many of these things are in the quran, but i do not read the quran as a muslim and do not know how muslims view the context of such events... which is why i rely on muslims to explain islam in practice... but now i see two vastly different minds on this...

but maybe you are saying that when muslims talk about "al andalus" they are meaning only the mosques? i do not exactly understand... i think there is a possibility we are talking about different things...

Dios te bendiga
who needs to conquer it?

there is a massively growing revert community in al andalus and we as muslims dont need to raise a finger in anger to get it back. just keep up the good work of spreading islam to the population there.

Abu Abdullah
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- Qatada -
01-26-2007, 01:49 PM
To answer your question Jayda, whenever islaam is about to enter any land - the leaders give the rulers of that nation 3 options:


1) Become muslim.

2) Pay Jizya and you will be under the protection of the muslims.

3) If you don't want to accept the above, then fight.

That might seem violent, but lets look at it this way - all the nations of the world would force the people to follow the religion of their ruler.

Therefore if the ruler was christian, the people were forced to follow that religion [like we can see in the story already.] Anyone who was in Iraq/Iran would have to follow Zoroastrianism. Anyone who was in India would have to follow hinduism etc. This happened for many centuries in the world, it was also at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him), and continued for many centuries even after that.


There was a man in Al-Shaam [Greater Syria] who became muslim within the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him), but because he lived in Greater Syria, where the Byzantinian Romans had power, they had him executed because he wasn't following the religion of the ruler (Heraclius.)



When islaam came, it abolished this ideology and because the people were living under oppression anyway, by these rulers who were taking advantage of the people - the people had one of the 3 choices mentioned above.

They could either accept islaam and become brothers and sisters in faith, the muslims would allow them to keep their land and wealth etc.

They could pay jizya [a small tax] which would be used to protect the state and help the needy etc. (the same way the muslims pay zakaah tax aswell.) Which in return would allow the people to keep their land, wealth, their honor and blood would be protected, and if anyone waged war against them - the muslims would fight on their behalf.


Or if the rulers never accepted any of these options, they would fight to lift the other people off oppression. The innocent people who might have wanted to follow another religion, but were too scared to because they were under the threat of being killed by their non muslim ruler. When these evil rulers were killed, the muslims would have authority in the land and allow the people to follow their faith freely, even have their own courts [with the laws according to their scripture.] All for a small tax, which they would be protected under anyway. And this wasn't injustice because muslims payed the (zakaah) tax anyway.



We follow the Qur'an and Sunnah [Prophetic way] according to the understanding of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah, we don't follow the way of the Ummayad Dynasty, because yes they aren't perfect and can do injustice, we don't agree that all that they did was right. But nowhere does it say in islaam that we follow the way of these people, rather we follow the way of the companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) who would give the 3 options, if they never accepted within 3 days, they would be fought for the freedom of the innocent people.


Islaam is just, and Allaah loves those who are just. The Ummayads may have treated the people there unjustly, but don't you see now why Allaah removed this from their grasp? It's because they turned away from this justice. When Jesus (peace be upon him) returns back to the earth to slay the anti-christ, he will bring justice back to the lands, and this is why Allaah will allow the blessings of the earth to come out.


Just to add in, islaam didn't simply spread by the sword. If you look in the world right now, the countries with the biggest muslim population are Indonesia, Malaysia etc., yet no muslims went to fight there.



And Allaah Almighty knows best.

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mariam.
01-26-2007, 02:49 PM
brother Fi_Sabilillah
جزاك الله خيراً
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ژاله
01-26-2007, 03:56 PM
well i read somewhere that it was not the government"king fernando 8???" who was responsible for this cruelty rather it was the priests and the crazy queen esabela who was under their influence.....and a top priest "zeminis"or something took a major part in eradicating muslims from spain.anyways this is a well known fact and the cruelty of inquisition against the muslims can never be denied.wassalam
Reply

Dawud_uk
01-26-2007, 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by faizi
well i read somewhere that it was not the government"king fernando 8???" who was responsible for this cruelty rather it was the priests and the crazy queen esabela who was under their influence.....and a top priest "zeminis"or something took a major part in eradicating muslims from spain.anyways this is a well known fact and the cruelty of inquisition against the muslims can never be denied.wassalam
true, but there is no need to be harsh with the christians here who mostly seem to be of the type seeking out the truth not the missionary type.

so just as many christians would travel to muslim spain to study its culture and universities and hospitals and were treated hospitably so we should treat the christians who come here.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Reply

'Abd al-Baari
01-26-2007, 04:41 PM
jazakllah for sharing the story
Reply

mariam.
01-26-2007, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by faizi
well i read somewhere that it was not the government"king fernando 8???" who was responsible for this cruelty rather it was the priests and the crazy queen esabela who was under their influence.....and a top priest "zeminis"or something took a major part in eradicating muslims from spain.anyways this is a well known fact and the cruelty of inquisition against the muslims can never be denied.wassalam
you are right .. but I know that 'king fernando 8' is 'esabela's husband isn't he?

Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
true, but there is no need to be harsh with the christians here who mostly seem to be of the type seeking out the truth not the missionary type.
so just as many christians would travel to muslim spain to study its culture and universities and hospitals and were treated hospitably so we should treat the christians who come here
I agree with you brother we should judge on each other religion by it's precepts not by it's follower deed.

.... peace
Reply

ژاله
01-27-2007, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
true, but there is no need to be harsh with the christians here who mostly seem to be of the type seeking out the truth not the missionary type.

so just as many christians would travel to muslim spain to study its culture and universities and hospitals and were treated hospitably so we should treat the christians who come here.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
I am not being harsh with the Christians....not with someone else
was just talking about a historical fact.
hope you get it the right way

Originally Posted by mariam.
you are right .. but I know that 'king fernando 8' is 'esabela's husband isn't he?
yes he was...but his mind was governed by esabela's orders...As far as i know he was not so cruel himself..
wassalam
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