Younger Muslims 'radical' - heated debate

[England]

29 January 2007
YOUNGER MUSLIMS 'RADICAL'
GROWING numbers of young British muslims are embracing radical Islam, a new poll shows.

Those aged between 16 and 24 feel they have less in common with non-muslims than their parents.

More than one in three youngsters would send children to Islamic schools, compared to 19 per cent of over 55-year-olds.


And 37 per cent of 16- 24-year-olds want to live under strict Islamic laws instead of the British system, compared to 17 per cent of over 55s.


Three-quarters of youngsters want women to be veiled.


It is supported by just over one-in-four of the older generation.


Munira Mirza, who helped compile the report for think-tank Policy Exchange, said: "There is clearly a conflict within British Islam."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_head...name_page.html

[England]

Govt Blamed For Divisions
Updated: 09:50, Monday January 29, 2007

A growing number of young Muslims want Islamic schools and Sharia law brought into Britain, according to a poll.

The survey found more young Muslims want women to wear the veil in public compared to the feeling gauged among their parents.

The majority of Muslims feel they have as much, if not more, in common with non-Muslims in the UK than with Muslims abroad.

But this figure fell from 71% among over-55s to 62% among 16-24 year olds, the survey for independent think-tank Policy Exchange found.

The percentage who said they would prefer to send their children to Islamic state schools increased from 19% for older people to 37% of the younger group.

The number who said they would prefer to live under Sharia law than British law increased from 17% of over-55s to 37% of 16-24-year-olds.


Munira Mirza, the lead author of the report, said the results suggested Government policy was to blame for sharpening divisions between Muslims and non-Muslims.

She said: "The emergence of a strong Muslim identity in Britain is, in part, a result of multicultural policies implemented since the 1980s which have emphasised difference at the expense of shared national identity and divided people along ethnic, religious and cultural lines."

According to the poll, 74% of 16-24-year-olds prefer Muslim women to choose to wear the hijab compared with only 28% of over 55s.

And while 7% of all those surveyed "admire organisations like al Qaeda that are prepared to fight the West", the figure increased from 3% of over-55s to 13% among the younger group.

Ms Mirza said: "There is clearly a conflict within British Islam between a moderate majority that accepts the norms of Western democracy and a growing minority that does not."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...565113,00.html

[Muezzin]

This what you'd call a 'hot topic'. I urge members replying to this thread to calm down and think before they post.

[England]

This what you'd call a 'hot topic'. I urge members replying to this thread to calm down and think before they post.

The 2nd article I posted was a bit more informative and interesting than this one

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[Abdul Fattah]

I think in general over the whole world in all differnt cultures and religions that young people will be more "radical" as opposed to older people who have more expierience and wisdom and learned to put things in perspective. This is yet another attempt to induce fear with non-mulims if you ask me: "look what's happening, they're growing worse"

[Woodrow]

I think this is a fairly typical reaction among young adults in all faiths and cultures. There always seems to be swinging extremes from one generation to the next.

My parents were quite radical and extremists in their beliefs. My generation was more conservative and pushed for slower more peaceful changes. My children reverted to being extreme radicals and now I see my grandchildren as being more sedate.

Sadly it seems it is the radical extreme generations that set the wheels in motion for war, but it is the moderate generation that gets called upon to fight the wars.

a positive sign I see is that while the pendulm does still swing from generation to generation, it does not reach the extremes it had in earlier generations.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

thanks, its nice to see 37% accepting strict islamic laws, lets hope this rises inshaAllaah.

Man what a nice article, 75% wanting women to be veiled, mashaAllaah, lol biiig smile on my face, biiig fat smile :D

[Jayda]

hola,

i think maybe you should consider the polls about muslims preferring to live under islam from another perspective... i think if you asked any Catholic whether they would prefer to live under Catholic rule exclusively they would say yes... or any relious person for this matter... because that is what you believe is the best.

but if you ask me "do you want to overthrow the government and establish a Catholic theocrasy" i would say no because i do not want to do violence or hurt people to establish pure justice... i only meant to say before that i would prefer living in such a society...

so maybe that is all those muslims answering those polls were saying... but i think muslims should answer this question. fi_sabilillah justified the islamic conquest of spain by saying muslims are supposed to go into a country and offer only three choices, paying a tax, converting to islam or war... so... i am not sure what this means...

http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...ml?#post637500

it has been on my thoughts.

Dios te bendiga

[Skillganon]

The term radical and extreme attribute to muslim by the non-muslim is not necessarily be something radical or extreme in Islam.

I also find it strange that they never went out to ask the Hijab wearing women if they prefer for themself, other muslim women and their daughters to wear their Hijab.

I also don't get the part of bringing al-qaeda into the poll, as Al-Qaeda is not a creed in Islam or amount to any kind of belief that is required in Islam.

Why not go ask some british non-muslim and try to pass of admiration of Bush as somekind of radicalisation, which actually will be more true in essence.

If you look carefully you can see the attempt of bluring the image.

[England]

thanks, its nice to see 37% accepting strict islamic laws, lets hope this rises inshaAllaah.

Man what a nice article, 75% wanting women to be veiled, mashaAllaah, lol biiig smile on my face, biiig fat smile :D

It won't happen :D

[IbnAbdulHakim]

sorry? what wont happen ?

[Umar001]

I think he means the rise.

Anyhow, interesting figures.

[Pk_#2]

It won't happen :D

:offended:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

It won't happen :D

we shall see about that nationalistic dude, we shall see :p

the more attention islam gets, the more people will research on islam, the more they will see the beauty of its truth, the more people will accept, the more islam will be practised AAAAAND the more you mr england wil be unhappy :p :p :p

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

lol i didnt know going to islamic schools and wanting to be veiled was "radical."
I guess that makes me one. Weird people...:X

[Agnostic]

lol i didnt know going to islamic schools and wanting to be veiled was "radical."
I guess that makes me one. Weird people...:X

Agree, I dont see what is so "radical" about them wanting their children to got to a Muslim school or their women wearing a hijab and the part about Al Queda... Well it was a low percent anyway.

[Keltoi]

Muslims wishing to adhere to specific requirements of their faith isn't "extreme". Wearing the veil or attending an Islamic school isn't extreme, unless the education they are getting is blatantly directed at provoking radicalism and violence. I'm sure these places exist, but I would wager the majority of Islamic schools are focused on an Islamic education, period.

I think Jayda made a good point in relation to those who said they wished to live under Islamic law. Most religious people would tell you they like the idea of living in a country devoted to their particular religious view, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would support a violence to achieve that end. I do think the debate about what is expected of Muslims who choose to live in an non-Muslim country is interesting, and should probably be explored more by both sides of the issue.

[Bittersteel]

please England define Radical Islam.

[Dahir]

lol i didnt know going to islamic schools and wanting to be veiled was "radical."
I guess that makes me one. Weird people...:X

Its 2007, catch up with the new trends in Vocabulary.

Radical = Orthodox

EXAMPLE: Man, look at that radical rabbi. He's got the long beard, and the ya'ma'ka, and the robe, and the hat -- man, lets call Homeland Security, he's gonna bomb that Synagogue!! :rant:

[Malaikah]

:sl:

:lol: I must have missed something... what is so radical about that??:shade:

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

i dont like going on media coverage so i am reading the full report.

the first thing we must realise is this was written by those who consider themselves as moderate secular muslims. they believe what they are upon is the truth though they bring no daleel for it from what i have read.

but the truth is they are calling muslims away from what they see as extremism and towards kufr, they would make us all into disbelievers by denying the shariah being superior over man made law and many other matters such as this.

so although they are sincere, they are calling towards disbelief and need to be stopped by speaking out against this evil idiology of muslim secularism.

fortunetely...
such people are losing. the muslims are practicing more, each generation getting stronger and from my imput into my local masjid i would say the next generation is even more practicing than this one and so on and so on.

the attempts to force muslims to live their lives like the kuffar are only having the opposite effect of driving muslims towards islam as such lives are legitimised in the eyes of the youth by being not only against their cultural parents but also against the state and its oppression of muslims, the very fact of putting on hijab or growing a beard and praying our salaat is in a way a big middle finger towards tony blair and those who are attacking islam.

it is like saying, as much as you beat us on the battle field, we are beating you in our hearts and returning to Allah and the way he gave us in Islam.

so i cannot see any way the kuffar and their secular muslim allies can change islam to something they want it to be now, i think the only thing that would slow it even is if they stopped acting against it and stopped speaking about it totally.

so really this leaves the non muslims with two uncomfortable choices.

1. accept the future of britain contains islam in it, all likely hood a majority muslim state where the muslims take increasing influence and this will inevitably impact and change the nations of britain forever.

2. mass expulsions and possible genocide.

i would obviously prefer they pick option one, but i am not willing to change islam to please any man, and as we see from the survey's in the report increasingly young muslims are feeling the same way so really for the non muslims it is option 1 or 2 in the west and uk in particular.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[IbnAbdulHakim]

so im guessing if your not a hypocrite and pick n mix muslim then your a radical :?

[Woodrow]

so im guessing if your not a hypocrite and pick n mix muslim then your a radical :?

That is probably correct. Radical simply means choosing one end or the other. An extreme pacifist is as much of a radical as an extreme activist. Radical does not equate with bad or wrong.

[Idris]

Fundamental Islam
Radical Muslims
Orthodox Muslims
Moderate Muslims
Traditional Islam


These words and many more are foreign to Islam.
You are a Muslim ....or your not. They are trying to use old methods like divide and conquer or give everyone a name or label. But in the end the last word is always Muslims or Islam.

[Woodrow]

True and that is all we need be concerned about

[Bittersteel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6311639.stm
I guess they want more and more Muslim women having jobs and marrying Non-Muslims so that the 'disaster' of Britain having a large number of Muslims could be avoided.
This policy isn't for British Muslims only;it goes for certain aid recipient Muslim countries too.all in all the world wantus to be from 1 billion to somesomething like 500 or 700 million.
remember there's always a strength in numbers.

I heard this "Young Muslims are Radical" two years ago.whats so new about this?I disagree with Dawud that Britain is likely to become a Muslim majority state;but I agree with him that Brits should expel Muslims if they can't put up with their faithfulness to their religion.

[Dawud_uk]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6311639.stm
I guess they want more and more Muslim women having jobs and marrying Non-Muslims so that the 'disaster' of Britain having a large number of Muslims could be avoided.
This policy isn't for British Muslims only;it goes for certain aid recipient Muslim countries too.all in all the world wantus to be from 1 billion to somesomething like 500 or 700 million.
remember there's always a strength in numbers.

I heard this "Young Muslims are Radical" two years ago.whats so new about this?I disagree with Dawud that Britain is likely to become a Muslim majority state;but I agree with him that Brits should expel Muslims if they can't put up with their faithfulness to their religion.

the stats are there for all to see, muslim families are having about 4 kids each family, the non muslims only about 1.2 or 1.3 per family, think about that?

the consequences are obvious.

but to me numbers dont matter that much or only marginally, how many states with muslim majorities are run upon cultural nationalistic lines and not in accordance with shariah?

so we dont just need width but depth of believers also, so this is why this report is actually good news.

the more i read of it the happier i get as it shows the true muslims are winning out and those who would sell their deen are losing.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[SATalha]

If you mean radical in the sense that the basics of Islam is being teached....than yes youngsters hear are being radicalised but only with the basic of our way of life. Like the 5 pillars and its benefits or basic fiqh and the biography of the prophets life. If that is becomming "radicalised" than yes they are. This is happning to the young brothers and sisters they are learning the basics of their religion and if you call that becomming "radicalised" than it is. Is learning Hadith a for of radicalisation? or islamic law? Never have i heard in my town the preaching of blowing up civilians and going to fight jihad. Instaed the actual meaning of the word is taught: Jihad- strive for allah.

For us muslims in Britain it is not the time for physical jihad, we have so much to do in our own community. At the moment the drug problem is escalating, just a few weeks ago my area friend overdosed and died. Plus we have so much learning to do as well, compared to other people's knowledge we are like grains of rice.

[Bittersteel]

I am happy Britain is facing such a problem.From the Islamic World's point of view(or mine) ,Britain facing problems at home and getting her navy halved is better than a prosperous Britain ,meddling in the internal affairs of Muslim countries.

[SATalha]

I am happy Britain is facing such a problem.From the Islamic World's point of view(or mine) ,Britain facing problems at home and getting her navy halved is better than a prosperous Britain ,meddling in the internal affairs of Muslim countries.

Bro all i am intrested in is learning about the deen, nothing more and nothing less. The plight of the Ummah is always in my mind and my dwa is always with them. But we need to teach and change things in our own community. The Bengali community mashallah is doing so much for Islam (just look at the LMC) I also know that our Pakistani brothers further east are doing many great things in the community. But iam sure that our Pakistani and other brothers and sisters will agree that the drug issue is a big problem. If you ask me we need to round up all these idiot dealers and than do what the English did..... send them to Australia. :shade: it will be nice and sunny for them. Hope they rot.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i approached quite a few brothers and suggested that we give da'wah to the street hoodlums but for some reason every brother thinks theres no point because they wont listen, i still want to try, just dont want to do it on my own !

[SATalha]

Yes bro thats what we need, brothers on the streets preaching with a soft heart to the hoodlems. I can do it in my area coz most of the young ones knwo me. But this needs to be conducted on a wide scale.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Yes bro thats what we need, brothers on the streets preaching with a soft heart to the hoodlems. I can do it in my area coz most of the young ones knwo me. But this needs to be conducted on a wide scale.

most of the young ones in my area are non-muslims, hardly ever see muslim kids on the streets otherwise i would have talked to them. The only thing i can think is to go to other peoples ends but it'll be harder.

[SATalha]

Oh bro i understand. However I still think that if you talk to the hoodlems about maybe changing their behaviour than it will benefit them. Just teaching them simple thing like manners, repect for the elders and other things. It doesnt have to be Islamic, just general manners. The local people will be pleased if they see reduction in anti-social behaviour. Remember making your Neighbour happy is a important teaching in Islam.

[Snowflake]

England;640539]29 January 2007
YOUNGER MUSLIMS 'RADICAL'
GROWING numbers of young British muslims are embracing radical Islam, a new poll shows.

I'd say younger muslims are embracing real Islam. Free from the cultural traditions of our parents and grandparents. Compared to the older generations practice of islam, it might appear to be radical. But it isn't. This is REAL Islam.

Those aged between 16 and 24 feel they have less in common with non-muslims than their parents.

Naturally. If we take out cultural practices which echo those of non muslims, then we'd sure have less in common with non muslims. This is great news mashaAllah.

[SATalha]

I'd say younger muslims are embracing real Islam. Free from the cultural traditions of our parents and grandparents. Compared to the older generations practice of islam, it might appear to be radical. But it isn't. This is REAL Islam.



Naturally. If we take out cultural practices which echo those of non muslims, then we'd sure have less in common with non muslims. This is great news mashaAllah.

Yep this is true the cultural baggage is being dumped for the real Islam! :hiding: Thats what i think about culture!!!!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Fundamental Islam
Radical Muslims
Orthodox Muslims
Moderate Muslims
Traditional Islam


These words and many more are foreign to Islam.
You are a Muslim ....or your not. They are trying to use old methods like divide and conquer or give everyone a name or label. But in the end the last word is always Muslims or Islam.

:thumbs_up

Its 2007, catch up with the new trends in Vocabulary.

Radical = Orthodox

EXAMPLE: Man, look at that radical rabbi. He's got the long beard, and the ya'ma'ka, and the robe, and the hat -- man, lets call Homeland Security, he's gonna bomb that Synagogue!! :rant:

^^ LOL thats funny ;D

[Bittersteel]

The Bengali community mashallah is doing so much for Islam

and the Bangladeshi Muslim community in Bangladesh is trying to get rid of Islam from the face of Bangladesh politics.they say politics in the name of religion is haram.they are supported by the European envoys,the British one especially.You can see why I am so happy.I hope the Young Muslims Radicals causes serious agitation.
our culture changed but I want the judicial laws and social laws to be more hardcore than like those of the English common laws.

[Skillganon]

and the Bangladeshi Muslim community in Bangladesh is trying to get rid of Islam from the face of Bangladesh politics.they say politics in the name of religion is haram.they are supported by the European envoys,the British one especially.You can see why I am so happy.I hope the Young Muslims Radicals causes serious agitation.
our culture changed but I want the judicial laws and social laws to be more hardcore than like those of the English common laws.

I noticed that.
Is it mainly the Awami League or does both Awami league and BNP have something to do with it.

They are completely wrong, to say Islam should not rule governance, because Islam encompasses everything. This is why we say "La illaha Ilallah, muhammadur russolah"

Actually it is Harram to have a man-made law than the Law of Allah(s,w,t) or to support and propogate kuffar causes.
So whoever is saying that "politics should be devoid of Islam are wrong". Don't they believe in Allah(s.w.t) do yo think you will be left alone saying "I believe and will not be tested?"

So muslims in position of power who are not stiving towards Allah(s.w.t) not trying to bring about Islam i.e. the Shaiah e.t.c but rather oppose it actively or by words i.e. rejects it, than they are clearly in the wrong and amounts to kuffar (desbelief). No matter if the have a beard and pray in the mosque.

Yo cannot believe in one part and desbelieve in the other parts as this is the misguidance of the people of the old. Plenty of warning about that in the Quran.

[Bittersteel]

the faith is weak in Bangladesh ,which was founded on secularism.actually many supporters of AL(secular party) tend to be religious.

Yo cannot believe in one part and desbelieve in the other parts as this is the misguidance of the people of the old.

Not only that Bangladeshis are reinterpreting Islamic laws.we are a donor recipient country,see?Our government haven't got much options but to accept the terms of the foreigners.
we will have Friday no longer as our holiday ,but Sunday.This Christianization of Bangladesh is worying.Obviously the upper class people call it modernization.

[Skillganon]

the faith is weak in Bangladesh ,which was founded on secularism.actually many supporters of AL(secular party) tend to be religious.

Not only that Bangladeshis are reinterpreting Islamic laws.we are a donor recipient country,see?Our government haven't got much options but to accept the terms of the foreigners.
we will have Friday no longer as our holiday ,but Sunday.This Christianization of Bangladesh is worying.Obviously the upper class people call it modernization.

,

Brother, try to get with other brother's and give dawah, try to call people back to tawheed. I know education in Islam is a key factor, this is the mode they will attack you on. They can rely on the general bangladeshi ignorance.

As far as I was aware bangladesh has no real Islamic Law?
How could they reinterpret what Allah(s.w.t) and his russool ha made clear?

Secularism is antithesis to Islam. Those secular muslim are the real extremist, and as long as they hold in such way and don't repent, they are desbelieving. Beware.

[Bittersteel]

its necessary to be secular to maintain a modern and functional economy.for that a certain degree of freedom needs to be provided.
however,strict Sharia laws should be applied for crimes like murder,rape,kidnapping,extortion,smuggling,etc.

As far as I was aware bangladesh has no real Islamic Law?

yes we do ,when it benefits women only.she can cheat on her husband and and get a divorce(no punishment for cheating) and she can have custody and the divorce money.
this has been brought by the influence of secularism and the English Common law imo.

[England]

we shall see about that nationalistic dude, we shall see :p

the more attention islam gets, the more people will research on islam, the more they will see the beauty of its truth, the more people will accept, the more islam will be practised AAAAAND the more you mr england wil be unhappy :p :p :p

Not with the vast amount of Eastern European immigrants coming in from Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria etc, largely Roman Catholic.

Besides you should worry about this piece of news. There will be blood on the streets before the Sharia Law is put in place. Nobody would put up with being forced to follow Islam, the dress code or anything in this country. I promise you this, there will be civil war before that happens. If you're still smirking then just think of your brothers and sisters.

[SATalha]

The sitiuation is Bangladesh makes me angry. trust me i know many of the young bengali bros that come from there and all they wan is Islam principles in there country. but like you said Bangladesh listens to other nations like India. Its the case with other Muslim countries. Trust me the foundations are there we just need to get rid of the idiots on the top. Many people say that Bengalis have no Islamic knowledge. I disagree, as a community in London do many things for the sake of Allah. The young students that come from Desh are the same, all they want is Islam nothing more and nothing less.

[FBI]

Not with the vast amount of Eastern European immigrants coming in from Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria etc, largely Roman Catholic.

Besides you should worry about this piece of news. There will be blood on the streets before the Sharia Law is put in place. Nobody would put up with being forced to follow Islam, the dress code or anything in this country. I promise you this, there will be civil war before that happens. If you're still smirking then just think of your brothers and sisters.

You Radical.

[Keltoi]

Not with the vast amount of Eastern European immigrants coming in from Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria etc, largely Roman Catholic.

Besides you should worry about this piece of news. There will be blood on the streets before the Sharia Law is put in place. Nobody would put up with being forced to follow Islam, the dress code or anything in this country. I promise you this, there will be civil war before that happens. If you're still smirking then just think of your brothers and sisters.

While this seems to be an unlikely scenario, I have wondered about this possibility myself. Not really of a civil war, but of a violent backlash. Westerners are normally slow to anger, with their busy lives and politically correct mindset, but alot of people are seeing the makings of a powder keg. We just have to hope that our worst fears aren't realized.

[SATalha]

No such thing as bad pulicity. As long as the Quaran and Sunnah are there people will always find the true Islam. More and more of my brothers and sisters are returning to the deen. THIS MAKES ME HAPPY. :D GLOBAL DOMINANCE HEAR WE COME!!! sorry dont mean to sound all masculine.

[Keltoi]

No such thing as bad pulicity. As long as the Quaran and Sunnah are there people will always find the true Islam. More and more of my brothers and sisters are returning to the deen. THIS MAKES ME HAPPY. :D GLOBAL DOMINANCE HEAR WE COME!!! sorry dont mean to sound all masculine.

It is statements like this that form the basis of that powder keg.

[FBI]

:sl:

But the thing everyone is over looking Islam is not a race, I know muslims who are whiter then casper, who come from traditional english famalies in a few years inshallah the average english bloke will probably be muslim. Also 80% of muslims are non-arabs.

[SATalha]

While this seems to be an unlikely scenario, I have wondered about this possibility myself. Not really of a civil war, but of a violent backlash. Westerners are normally slow to anger, with their busy lives and politically correct mindset, but alot of people are seeing the makings of a powder keg. We just have to hope that our worst fears aren't realized.

Backlashes are rare but after the 7/7 incident we were all tooled up because few of the bros whrere attacked by N/F's. But thank god it wasnt serious.

[SATalha]

:sl:

But the thing everyone is over looking Islam is not a race, I know muslims who are whiter then casper, who come from traditional english famalies in a few years inshallah the average english bloke will probably be muslim. Also 80% of muslims are non-arabs.

You really think that will happen...

[Keltoi]

:sl:

But the thing everyone is over looking Islam is not a race, I know muslims who are whiter then casper, who come from traditional english famalies in a few years inshallah the average english bloke will probably be muslim. Also 80% of muslims are non-arabs.

I don't know about the average English bloke becoming Muslim in a few years, but you are correct that most Muslims aren't Arabs, they are Indonesians and the like. However, the terrorism and suicide bombings are coming primarily from Western Arabs.

[FBI]

You really think that will happen...

It's already started the amount of reverts in my mosque is proof at that.

[SATalha]

Mashallah. What area would that be bro...if you dont mind

[England]

Backlashes are rare but after the 7/7 incident we were all tooled up because few of the bros whrere attacked by N/F's. But thank god it wasnt serious.

Trying to take over the country will cause a backlash, more so with the Sharia Law. It won't happen. I, unlike Keltoi, believe there will be a civil war if this was to happen.

There have been backlashes worst than what you just mentioned. There have been riots between Muslims and non muslims recently in Windsor, Birkshire. There have also been big riots in Oldham, Bradford, Burnley, Birmingham etc. We can all remember them.

Bottom line is the Sharia Law is very unlikely to be placed. There's not alot of British converting to Islam. It must be about 0.5-1%.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^still going up. thats all i care. whether its ".2%"

[SATalha]

Trying to take over the country will cause a backlash, more so with the Sharia Law. It won't happen. I, unlike Keltoi, believe there will be a civil war if this was to happen.

There have been backlashes worst than what you just mentioned. There have been riots between Muslims and non muslims recently in Windsor, Birkshire. There have also been big riots in Oldham, Bradford, Burnley, Birmingham etc. We can all remember them.

Bottom line is the Sharia Law is very unlikely to be placed. There's not alot of British converting to Islam. It must be about 0.5-1%.

Dont get so worried ok. If Shariah comes hear or not that is Gods will. Personaly if it came it would benefit us all. But you wouldnt understand. You know what i would do if had Shraiah hear...turn St Puals in to a Masjid..... lol look iam only pulling your leg. Look just coz we are Muslims dont mean that we cant live in Britian under British law. It is true that we must work towards shariah, but this will happen somewhere else inshallah. When that day comes we will go back to that country and bother you know more. I am waiting for a country with 100% shariah.

[England]

^^still going up. thats all i care. whether its ".2%"

It's not going up :confused: You read too many Islamic sites.

[SATalha]

Pulling someones leg means- Joking. I must remember that we have non-british members hear. Sorry for the confusion

[England]

Dont get so worried ok. If Shariah comes hear or not that is Gods will. Personaly if it came it would benefit us all. But you wouldnt understand. You know what i would do if had Shraiah hear...turn St Puals in to a Masjid..... lol look iam only pulling your leg. Look just coz we are Muslims dont mean that we cant live in Britian under British law. It is true that we must work towards shariah, but this will happen somewhere else inshallah. When that day comes we will go back to that country and bother you know more. I am waiting for a country with 100% shariah.

I won't follow Sharia Law. I won't be forced to follow a relgion I don't believe in. I won't dress my girlfriend/wife from head to toe. You can that by all means but I'm not muslim and I will always be a non-muslim. I won't have my daughter stoned to death for showing her arm, nor will I encourage her to follow Islam.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^ Watch it, thanks. Stoning is for adultery. Get your facts straight. Don't run your feelings overboard.

[SATalha]

Dude calm down no ones asking you to. What are the prospects of Shariah in Britian? none. I wouldnt want Shariah in this country anyway. like i said inshallah in another country. Who said anything about force?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It's not going up You read too many Islamic sites.

I'm not reading too many Islamic sites. If its not going up, then there wouldnt be videos of so many reverting and a lot reverting on forums like these.

[SATalha]

I'm not reading too many Islamic sites. If its not going up, then there wouldnt be videos of so many reverting and a lot reverting on forums like these.

Exactly... look please dont be afraid in time the misunderstanding that you may have will dissapear (god willing). The thing about Islam and its principles is that you need to think objectivly. We ask ourselves how will this benefit me in the after life, will this have lasting impact or not etc.

[Cognescenti]

^^still going up. thats all i care. whether its ".2%"

Tayyaba;

I think you are dreaming. Without serious in-migration of foreign muslims, the demographics aren't going to change significantly in England. True, there will be a limited number of conversions of disaffected young people but inevitably, some 2nd and 3rd generation muslims will drift toward a non-observant lifestyle.

You can see in France what happens when the locals start to get nervous...they vote for guys like Le Pen.

Look at Lebanon, for eg., to see what happens when Western influences meet up with Islam...some middle ground on social behavior becomes the norm.

Now..if, as a result of cultural homgenation between English and Muslim customs is seen in England, and some middle eastern dishes replace kidney pie in English cuisine, then something good will come of it.

As it stands now, I think English muslims should be thankful they have the privledge to live in one of the most hospitable and forgiving countries in the world and stop with the foolish bravado about sharia law in England.

Attn. MI5: I voted for Bush. Please delete me from your surveilance list. Yeah team.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

It's not going up :confused: You read too many Islamic sites.

you make it sound like a bad thing :p

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Tayyaba;

I think you are dreaming. Without serious in-migration of foreign muslims, the demographics aren't going to change significantly in England. True, there will be a limited number of conversions of disaffected young people but inevitably, some 2nd and 3rd generation muslims will drift toward a non-observant lifestyle.

You can see in France what happens when the locals start to get nervous...they vote for guys like Le Pen.

Look at Lebanon, for eg., to see what happens when Western influences meet up with Islam...some middle ground on social behavior becomes the norm.

Now..if, as a result of cultural homgenation between English and Muslim customs is seen in England, and some middle eastern dishes replace kidney pie in English cuisine, then something good will come of it.

As it stands now, I think English muslims should be thankful they have the privledge to live in one of the most hospitable and forgiving countries in the world and stop with the foolish bravado about sharia law in England.

Attn. MI5: I voted for Bush. Please delete me from your surveilance list. Yeah team

^^Before you go on any further. Though this was also pretty useless...I wasn't talking about Shariah, I was referring to reverts to Islam. Now maybe you should calm your mind down, before you screw up anywhere else and make a fool of yourself. If Britain wants to claim to be hospitable, then maybe they should not make stupid moves that affect the Muslims living their and then try to fix it again, cause they screwed up.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

the prophet saws always encouraged us to be kind and patient. :)

"Invite to the way of your lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching"


lol thought i'll mention that :D

[England]

I'm not reading too many Islamic sites. If its not going up, then there wouldnt be videos of so many reverting and a lot reverting on forums like these.

There will be videos. You find alsorts of videos on the internet. It doesn't mean it's increasing. You will also find the odd post there and then of people converting on this site but they have searched the internet for this forum to gain credit. It is still a tiny proportion. It doesn't mean it's increasing at all.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

the prophet saws always encouraged us to be kind and patient. :)

"Invite to the way of your lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching"


lol thought i'll mention that :D

Yea well I have anger issues when people grow up learning English, but still cant realize what I'm talking about in my post.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Yea well I have anger issues when people grow up learning English, but still cant realize what I'm talking about in my post.

looooool

i undastand sis lol, jus smile while you shout :p makes all the diff like this,


you totally confused fool :D :D (chacha jalebi masterd it :p)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Lol, well I have a habit of trying to diss in a serious manner when I'm annoyed, since I cant go all out with my anger :X lol.

There will be videos. You find alsorts of videos on the internet. It doesn't mean it's increasing. You will also find the odd post there and then of people converting on this site but they have searched the internet for this forum to gain credit. It is still a tiny proportion. It doesn't mean it's increasing at all.

Whatever you say mate...

[Skillganon]

its necessary to be secular to maintain a modern and functional economy.for that a certain degree of freedom needs to be provided.
however,strict Sharia laws should be applied for crimes like murder,rape,kidnapping,extortion,smuggling,etc.

Bro, that is where we are going wrong. Secularism is antithesis to Islam.

We need to ask ourself, what's wrong with Islam that we need secularism?

Are we saying to Allah(s.w.t) when we bow our head in the masjid that "sorry Allah secularism is better than Islam so that is why we need to oppose you rule so our neigbours will be pleased with us supposedly for a stable economy"


This is the wrong way to go about, and idea that every muslims, you and I need to shed (get rid of).
Do not sell the ayat of Allah(s.w.t) for a miserable price, like some of the people of scriptures did.

[Cognescenti]

^^Before you go on any further. Though this was also pretty useless...I wasn't talking about Shariah, I was referring to reverts to Islam. Now maybe you should calm your mind down, before you screw up anywhere else and make a fool of yourself. If Britain wants to claim to be hospitable, then maybe they should not make stupid moves that affect the Muslims living their and then try to fix it again, cause they screwed up.

My, my. That was a bit harsh.

First, expel or convert or exterminate the non-believers....then Sharia. I now understand.

Sorry for my lack of understanding. Clearly, though you did not understand my explantation of why your vision isn't realistic.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

First, expel or convert or exterminate the non-believers....then Sharia. I now understand.

Sorry for my lack of understanding. Clearly, though you did not understand my explantation of why your vision isn't realistic.

sorry im lost, how did you get this from her post?

Islam teaches us to live in peace with everyone, we're just going to force you to pay jizya thats all, its still less then tax though :)

[Keltoi]

Pulling someones leg means- Joking. I must remember that we have non-british members hear. Sorry for the confusion

That is a common American expression as well.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

My, my. That was a bit harsh.

First, expel or convert or exterminate the non-believers....then Sharia. I now understand.

Sorry for my lack of understanding. Clearly, though you did not understand my explantation of why your vision isn't realistic.

LOL. talk about harsh. You must have a genius brain to get out all that unrelating info out of my post :rolleyes:

Dude go back and read. If you need to read, read it like a few 100s times, then maybe it will sink :D

[Cognescenti]

sorry im lost, how did you get this from her post?

Islam teaches us to live in peace with everyone, we're just going to force you to pay jizya thats all, its still less then tax though :)

I may have extrapolated a bit after her blistering response :happy:

What is jizya?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I may have extrapolated a bit after her blistering response :happy:

What is jizya?

jizya is the money paid to the poor, so we take it from you and give it to the needy :), dont worry muslims pay zakaat, so its all fair and justice, we dont treat you worser then others :)

[Cognescenti]

LOL. talk about harsh. You must have a genius brain to get out all that unrelating info out of my post :rolleyes:

Dude go back and read. If you need to read, read it like a few 100s times, then maybe it will sink :D

So stipulated. You did not explicitly advocate the violent overthrow of Britain. I was purposely being hyperbolic. Please tell me what smilie I am supposed to use around here when I post something that, under normal circumstances, would be immediately be perceived as satirical.

You did seem to express a rather odd satisfaction with conversion of the locals to Islam, (I don't have any particualr problem with that as long as they don't follow in teh footsteps of Richard Reid). At least it seems odd to me from thousands of miles away. Is it some kind of contest?

If you think my observations about political and cultural pushback in France, for eg., don't apply to Britain, fine, it doens't hurt my feelings.

[Cognescenti]

jizya is the money paid to the poor, so we take it from you and give it to the needy :), dont worry muslims pay zakaat, so its all fair and justice, we dont treat you worser then others :)

Wait..am I to understand that jizya is an involuntary duty on non-muslims and zakaat is voluntary? That hardly seems fair. Can I at least, take a mortgage interest deduction on jizya?

[Skillganon]

Zakat is obligatory. Muslim who fall into the criteria has to pay.

[- Qatada -]

Hi Cognescenti. :)


Islaam is a religion of justice and doesn't call people to do the attacks on innocents like you've seen on the media. Islaam call's to the obedience of our Creator, God Almighty. Our purpose of life is to obey Him and to obey His commandments over the law of any of the creation. So God sends us messengers from among mankind who have clear signs to call people to the obedience of God. The obedience of God leads to justice and mercy among mankind.

God has sent many messengers to mankind, all had the same message of obeying God over the creation. These messengers lived simple lives and worked hard to establish God's law on earth. The final messenger of God was Muhammad (peace be upon him) who had the same message as all the previous prophets - islaam, which means submission to God Almighty. All the prophets came with this message.


Those who accept God and His messengers were opposed by many people who wanted to have authority over people, they never wanted the slave man to be equal to the rich man. Rather they desired this world only. Whereas God desired that they have goodness in this world and the hereafter. Those who obeyed the messenger, God gave them an easier life in this world and the one to come.. we all will die - and we are all responsible for our actions. When we die, we will be raised up once again to be judged on all that we did.


God Almighty says in the Qur'an:

"How can you deny God, when you were dead and God gave you life? Then God will cause you to die, and then revive you, and then you will be returned to God." (Quran 2:28)

We are all responsible for our actions. And the purpose of our life is to obey God and not associate partners with Him. That means obedience to God in regard to treating people gently, kindly, helping the needy, keeping up family ties, smiling at your brother in humanity etc.


The Messenger of God (peace be upon him) said:

'The best among you in Islam are those with the best manners, so long as they develop a sense of understanding.' "

Hadith - Bukhari's Book of Manners #286 and Ahmad

The non muslims who live in an islamic state and pay the jizya [if they can afford it] - their blood and honor is protected and they aren't forced to follow islaam.

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. [Qur'an 2:256]

If an enemy comes to the muslim lands, it is the muslims duty to fight to defend even the non muslims who are in that islamic state. Yet the non muslims don't have to fight.

These non muslims can even follow their own law in that nation and can establish their own courts. They have freedom to worship in their own churches and temples. Did you ever hear that on the media?



Try keeping an open mind and maybe you'll see that islaam is a just religion. It is the way of life which God has ordained upon mankind, yet most of them don't know.


This is why alot of people have turned to islaam, due to the fact that it fits with logic and because it is just and a whole way of life. :)




Peace.

[MTAFFI]

Tayyaba

do you notice that in many of your posts you tell people that they misunderstood what you were saying? I have apparently done it a couple of times myself. Maybe you should be a little more clear when you post so that there is no two ways in reading it.. not trying to start an argument with you or anything just trying to give you a helpful suggestion.:D

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

There's not alot of British converting to Islam. It must be about 0.5-1%.

^^still going up. thats all i care. whether its ".2%"

Cognescenti, for goodness sake, stop taking my post off topic and claiming that i said stuff when i didnt.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Tayyaba

do you notice that in many of your posts you tell people that they misunderstood what you were saying? I have apparently done it a couple of times myself. Maybe you should be a little more clear when you post so that there is no two ways in reading it.. not trying to start an argument with you or anything just trying to give you a helpful suggestion.:D

i gotcha :D

[Dawud_uk]

There will be videos. You find alsorts of videos on the internet. It doesn't mean it's increasing. You will also find the odd post there and then of people converting on this site but they have searched the internet for this forum to gain credit. It is still a tiny proportion. It doesn't mean it's increasing at all.

hi england,

i helped start a little project called "new muslim project - sheffield" which as it sounds was a project to help new muslims in sheffield, uk or sheffield, eng if you prefer.

now we have had a lot of people reverting to islam recently and now the trend has just gone through the roof, we cannot keep up with teaching all the new muslims how to pray, wash themselves to pray etc etc and the mosques cannot keep up either hence the need for a new muslim project in the first place.

from personal experience i can tell you that not only are a lot of people reverting to islam, but the trend is increasing dramatically, at least where i live anyway.

Abu Abdullah

[Malaikah]

Can I at least, take a mortgage interest deduction on jizya?

No way! There is no interest in an Islamic state- it is a low practise, filled with injustice and it is a major sin in Islam to charge interest, or to even pay interest.