Do you hate Americans?

[tomtomsmom]

Ok so in another thread the statement "I hate Americans" has been brought up several times. With the moderators permission I would like to discuss this further. Anyone who posts in this thread please leave your anger outside because I really want this to be a civilized discussion.

I realize that there is great hatred in the world for the action of the USA over the years. I as an american hate that too. But to generalize that all american are evil sits wrong for me. Is it not the same as saying all mulisms are terrorists?

[Dahir]

The folks who hate America really just hate American foreign policy and domestic behavior (ultra-liberalism, ultra-conservatism, isolationism, etc.). The problem that lies therein is that they usually cannot word their 'hatred' very well, so they give a general dislike of America. Its not really that big of a deal. Americans felt the same way about Soviets/Russians, Germans, Japanese folks, the Vietnamese, and countless other folks/nations.

The newest fear, probably public since the Reagan era, and especially since after 9/11, is that the neo-conservatives -- who are seen by some and see themselves as the most hardcore defenders of Western civilization -- might actually end all civilizations in this newest chapter in American history.

Many Europeans thought Germany would end the world with its end-of-days foreign policy, and that same fear is now carried over to the United States; a 100% unilateral nation that has even more power and control over the way of the world. I'm not comparing the US to Nazi Germany or any other self-titled Messianic empire, but its fairly easy to see where the lines meet up.

I'm not an expert on anti-Americanism, but my theory is a lot more accurate than what you'll get from mine and your own brethren -- the cliche "they're jealous of our power" reply.

I hope it helps.

[lyesh]

American, Palasteinian, Indian... for me the nationality is not important. We are all human! And there are the good and bad among them everywhere. So blaming a certain country only because of a few people doesnt make sense. No I dont hate Americans.... not all.. only the wrong people among them :)

May Allah Guide them... Ameen!

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam

We i do hate americans,and isrealis.

All americans.

That is until we get to know each other.

LOL..

Until then if i do not kow you and you are an american,i will just distance myself.
Here in Singapore,the whites or Americans are fearful to be seen outside and where ever they go they go in groups for protection.

As i would say that muslim in the US would go in groups for protection especially when whites are around,especially for men and women who wear the hijab or have a beard.

Perhaps it is not your individual fault that the world is the way it is to day,but you are part of it.

As it is not the individual fault of any Lebanese whom are bombed by US made bombs nor any individual Iraqis who are bombed by Shock and Awe and so on.

You cna shrug and say,hey it got nothing to do with me.
As can the Iraqis,the Lebanese,The Somalis,The Palestinains.

Some would say,it is a goverment policy,but you are first and foremost ,US citizens,and when push come to shove,you will be treated likewise.

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[Keltoi]

There are parallels to the Roman Empire and any other powerful nation in history. Once a nation grows in power and influence its interest lies in protecting that status and the way of life of its people. That will always lead to animosity among other groups and nations who find it easy, and sometimes justifiable, to blame the U.S. for the state of its affairs. I also think in many ways it has become pop culture in non-American circles to "hate" the U.S. Sort of like rebellious children flipping off the principle behind his back at school. Not saying people don't have proper arguments to make in many cases, but its all a matter of worldview and one's national allegiances.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i hate the american goverment, not the individuals :)

[Malaikah]

If I meet an American I wouldn't hate him/her just because he/she is American...

There is much I dislike about the country itself as a whole, but to be honest that isn't something unique to only America, I feel the same way about many other places, although America does seem to be very close to the top of the list.

At the same time, Americans themselves are too diverse to generalise...

[MTAFFI]

Salaam

We i do hate americans,and isrealis.

All americans.

That is until we get to know each other.

LOL..

Until then if i do not kow you and you are an american,i will just distance myself.
Here in Singapore,the whites or Americans are fearful to be seen outside and where ever they go they go in groups for protection.

As i would say that muslim in the US would go in groups for protection especially when whites are around,especially for men and women who wear the hijab or have a beard.

Perhaps it is not your individual fault that the world is the way it is to day,but you are part of it.

As it is not the individual fault of any Lebanese whom are bombed by US made bombs nor any individual Iraqis who are bombed by Shock and Awe and so on.

You cna shrug and say,hey it got nothing to do with me.
As can the Iraqis,the Lebanese,The Somalis,The Palestinains.

Some would say,it is a goverment policy,but you are first and foremost ,US citizens,and when push come to shove,you will be treated likewise.

So you wouldnt mind then if I say I hate all Muslims until I meet them? Or that you may not be directly responsible for certain Muslim terrorist attacks but you are a part of it. Seems a little sick to me

[tomtomsmom]

I have no control over where I was born. Just like I have no control over who my parents are or the color of my skin. I don't think that gives anyone the right to hate me.
The way I see it fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I will give anyone a first chance without bias because of your culture or religion. Everyone is different and if not given the chance you can never see that. But if you do prove yourself to be a bad person you will not get a second chance with me. Period.

[glo]

I have no control over where I was born. Just like I have no control over who my parents are or the color of my skin. I don't think that gives anyone the right to hate me.
The way I see it fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I will give anyone a first chance without bias because of your culture or religion. Everyone is different and if not given the chance you can never see that. But if you do prove yourself to be a bad person you will not get a second chance with me. Period.

I agree, tomtomsmum.

Unfortunately, believing in stereotypes tends to be what people do ... until we meet people of other nationalities/races/religons face-to-face (well said, Zulkiflim)
That's when stereotypes start to erode and crumble, because suddenly we see another human being, we share the same feelings, experiences, situations ... and it becomes impossible to hate each other!
That's why interaction and communication between differing groups is so vital!

If it makes you feel any better, I am a white Christian German - and I receive my fair share of criticism and judgement for it :uuh: (although not necessarily here in LI).
I'm afraid I just had to learn to grow a thicker skin!

Like you said I cannot possibly be responsible for any atrocities/mistakes committed by anybody I share my nationality/race/religion with ...
I am , however, responsible for teaching others that their steretypical views of me are unfounded - by the very way I react to their accusations.

peace :)

[glo]

I found this article, which may be of interest. (It is from a Christian website, so I prefer not to post a link, unless mods request so specifically ...):

People are different. Some have dark skin, and some have light skin. Some are short, some are tall, some have straight hair, some have long hair, some have blue eyes, and some have brown. But the amazing thing that the world seems to miss is the transcendent and obvious reality that we are all human; we are all strikingly similar. We all have skin, eyes, hair, and so on. We all have minds to think, wills to act, emotions to feel, and bodies to live in. The similarities go far beyond the differences. The problem for humanity, however, is that something has gone wrong. We have a sin problem; thus, we maximize the differences, rank and judge them, and do whatever we can to exalt ourselves at the expense of others. We, for whatever silly reason, think that our nuances of appearance are superior to somebody else’s. This leads to degrading comments, racism, destruction, division, and hate.

But there is good news. God is not racist, for God is love. God is not partial, for God has made all people.
[...]
Rather than get caught up on the differences, we could see that we are all His creation. We could see that we are all fearfully and wonderfully made. All people groups, tribes, and tongues are His masterpieces. [...]

In other words, we are all one race- human.

Peace

[Pk_#2]

Don't hate Americans,

Nope :)

Erm...

Yeah tc :D Peace!

[tomtomsmom]

That is very nice Glo thank you.

I think what upsets me the most are the parents that teach their children hate. Every single one of us have grown up with hatred all around us. I am sorry but I want something better for my son, my grandchildren, my great gradchildren, and every generation after that. I don't want my legacy in this world to be hate. If parents would start teaching their children love and understanding then eventually all the hate would die off and the only thing left would be peace. I try very hard to teach my son this. He is only 5 yet he knows that all people are different. Some have white skin and some have brown. Some are tall and some will never be as tall as he is now. Some can walk just fine but some need a wheel chair to be able to move. I teach him that the differences on the outside isn't what matters, it is the similarites on the inside that count. He knows that we all can love, we all can hurt, we all bleed the same blood. He may not fully understand this now at such a young age, but it is the seeds that I plant now that will help him grow into an honest and caring man. I ask all of you, what kind of seed do you want your children to grow in to??

[Ninth_Scribe]

The folks who hate America really just hate American foreign policy and domestic behavior (ultra-liberalism, ultra-conservatism, isolationism, etc.). The problem that lies therein is that they usually cannot word their 'hatred' very well, so they give a general dislike of America. Its not really that big of a deal.

I think that's right on the money. Most of the people I've communicated with have really gone out of their way to explain they don't hate me... but they don't understand how we, as American people, could be so blind to what our government has been up to. I told them we thought we had watch-dog groups in place to keep em' honest (politicians), but something went very wrong. We're all over it now, but look at what it took to bring the issues to our attention!? That's sad.

Personally, I think all the countries should take a step back from what I call the point of impact and split the difference on who's to blame for it - you know, fix this mess. That would please me. At this point, I think that would please everyone.

Ninth Scribe

[FBI]

:sl:

I love americans, espcially the dudes who made halo.

[cihad]

all of our blood is the same colour
ie:we're all human

"We made you into nations and tribes so that you could come to know one another"

[Woodrow]

One of the most painful lessons we ever learn in life is that not everybody loves us. Not everybody loves me, Not everybody loves you and not everybody loves the guy across the street or on the opposite side of the world.

Oddly enough, with each and everyone, anybody and everybody we hate; somebody someplace hates us for the same reason.

Every person that hates Americans because we have a secular, imperialistic country, a corrupt government, an aggresive leader etc. Has somebody else that see's them as being the same. For every stereotype I or you have about others there are people that have the same stereotype about us.

the reality is that to some extent each and everyone of us is guilty of the same crimes we condemn in others.

Perhaps this is the reason we as Humans have no right to Judge any other human.

[Ninth_Scribe]

I think what upsets me the most are the parents that teach their children hate. Every single one of us have grown up with hatred all around us.

Not in my household... my mother would slap my face (hard) if she heard me speak out of line against someone else. She's Sicilian, but in her nest, Lashon Hara is a very serious sin! You can doubt a person. To her, doubt is just a misunderstanding, usually caused when the facts are poorly presented. But you can't diss a person just because you don't understand them (or what planet they're from).

Hmm... maybe a burst of the divine feminine is what's needed here, lol. Yea, we'll empower the mothers of the world to rein in the kids, especially the males!

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

Perhaps this is the reason we as Humans have no right to Judge any other human.

I thought we were denied the right of Judgement as a Mercy. The thought is buried somewhere in my mind so deeply, I can't seem to form it, but it went something like this:

No matter who it is, no one is an island. No one can survive the Earth on their own power. It requires a team effort, combined force. Therefore no matter what your station in life may be, you are only as powerful as the ones to the right of you, the ones to the left, those before you and from behind. With this in mind, whatever your success becomes a shared blessing. Likewise, whatever your failure, it becomes a shared burden.

It went something like that. I guess, we're all failing eachother.

The Ninth Scribe

[MTAFFI]

:sl:

I love americans, espcially the dudes who made halo.

HALO IS AWESOME, I dont play video games but I do get on that with the xbox360 and whoop up on some youngsters when i get a chance, what is your gamertag, maybe i will whoop up on you sometime:happy:

[sojourner]

I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this discussion since i'm not a Muslim and i'm an American.
But one of the things that has been a bit of an issue with me as i have considered becoming a Muslim has been the anti-American sentiment and outright hatred i find sometimes from those in the Muslim community. I know that the US is not by any means perfect, but it is my home where i was born and raised (like it or not sometimes).
I do love the Muslim way of life and i can see myself becoming a Muslim, but like i said...the anti-Americanism is troubling to me.

Thanks for letting me just sound off a bit.

[Skillganon]

Your welcome. I think people tend to vent their anger in different way's.
However I do not see how hating the americans people per se achieve anything. It is the goverment e.t.c and their policies over many years where the problem lies.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Islam is better than what some Muslims show it to be. So understand Islam, not Muslims in general, cuz u wont always find perfect ones. I dont hate Americans personally because i've met many good ones. I havent ever had a problem with anyone at all. Its my first time actually having an argument with someone who is not Muslim, on world affairs. We can never deny that there are losers everywhere. I don't like the way America goes about on such things, most of the public is the opposite of the government. Maybe someone doesnt like me as a Muslim through the ones ive met, but no ones ever messed with me. Except for my professor LOL.

So yea thats it :D

[tomtomsmom]

I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this discussion since i'm not a Muslim and i'm an American.
But one of the things that has been a bit of an issue with me as i have considered becoming a Muslim has been the anti-American sentiment and outright hatred i find sometimes from those in the Muslim community. I know that the US is not by any means perfect, but it is my home where i was born and raised (like it or not sometimes).
I do love the Muslim way of life and i can see myself becoming a Muslim, but like i said...the anti-Americanism is troubling to me.

Thanks for letting me just sound off a bit.

I don't mind at all. This is what I wanted the thread to be. Honest opinions from both sides. I am an american non-muslim as well so I understand where you are coming from. My advice to you is simple......pay no attention to those who show you hatred. From what I have been able to learn that is not the islamic way (please correct me if I am wrong). If you do want to convert then do so with a full heart and realize that though you may face people who won't agree and will be down right mean to you, that you are doing what you think is best. No one holds the definition of who you are but you!!!!

[NobleMuslimUK]

I must admit I hate America, this feeling was non existent before 9/11. After 9/11 America illegally invaded 2 muslims countries which fueled my anger further.
Also the blinding support of Israeli terrorism towards Palestine, has further added to this anger. Everytime I hear the word America, or see Bush or any American official on TV, I find myself cursing under my breath. It angers me that the lies I can see so clearly a lot of Americans are ignorant to. The worst blow was that Americans voted for Bush again. Americans have to realise the actions of their elected government they are directly responsible for, if the majority view isnt reflected by a democratically elected government, then it is clear Americans themselves live under a dictatorship.
Until there is a revolution in America and the evil regime in place is overthrown, I stand by my anti American views. Dont get me wrong I dont hate Americans in general, I have given reasons for my hate.

[Kittygyal]

salamualikum
NO i don't hate Americans well i hate those who kill innocent people like W.Bush am an american me self so depends who they are init
Ma'assalama

[snakelegs]

The worst blow was that Americans voted for Bush again. Americans have to realise the actions of their elected government they are directly responsible for, if the majority view isnt reflected by a democratically elected government, then it is clear Americans themselves live under a dictatorship.

i think you don't understand something. the u.s. is not a democracy. it has elections where you get to choose between 2 candidates who are both funded by the same corporations and neither represent anybody i know. (i don't know any millionaires).
elections are not the same thing as democracy - they are just elections.
last election i voted for the first time (and probably the last) in my life (and i'm not young) just so i could vote against bush - but not because i thought his opponent was a real alternative.
you are right that many americans are ignorant and believe what fox news tells them about the world. any many don't care.
but there are also many americans who cry at what has become of their country and are deeply ashamed of what is being done in our name.
please remember us once in awhile.

[Cognescenti]

Can I change my vote? I have decided I hate Americans too. Perhaps, with this gesture, I will not cause an entire page of discussion to disappear into the ether again.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Sarcasm does get old you know...

[thirdwatch512]

i don't hate americans in general. but i do very much dislike president bush and republikkkans. of at least their political beliefs.

[tomtomsmom]

i don't hate americans in general. but i do very much dislike president bush and republikkkans. of at least their political beliefs.

Join the club. Even the republicans hate him and that is saying something. I can't wait till '08!!!

[Keltoi]

Join the club. Even the republicans hate him and that is saying something. I can't wait till '08!!!

I'm a Republican and I don't hate George Bush. I agree with most of his foreign policy decisions, Iraq being the exception. My problem with Bush has nothing to do with foreign policy however, it is more his domestic agenda, mainly the immigration issue.

[Zulkiflim]

So you wouldnt mind then if I say I hate all Muslims until I meet them? Or that you may not be directly responsible for certain Muslim terrorist attacks but you are a part of it. Seems a little sick to me

Salaam,

You cna say that but of course you need to show proof.

Right now let see how the US stands.

Attack Iraq Afghan,,wihout proof and lie about the reasons...then when those reason are cast aside as LIES,the US still say that it is truth.

Lies backed by action,and when those lies unfold,the lies are still reinforced even today by certain memeber of the US goverment.

Why?

And what have american done for the Iraqis? or the Afghans?
In my mind nothing.

Even when you hear of the words by US politician it is laways about SUPPORTING THE TROOPS<did it speak about the torment that the Iraqis/Afghan have to endure?

No it is about US citizens supporting their onw people first.

Is it wrong?
I would say no,it is right for a parentto protect the children,but it is likewise right for the parent to teach the children to apologise for any wrong deeds casued.

That is not happening now,no apologies,no restitution,just bravado and I MA RIGHT,no matter how many Iraqis are dead,I MUST BE SAFE.

[tomtomsmom]

Salaam,

You cna say that but of course you need to show proof.

Right now let see how the US stands.

Attack Iraq Afghan,,wihout proof and lie about the reasons...then when those reason are cast aside as LIES,the US still say that it is truth.

Lies backed by action,and when those lies unfold,the lies are still reinforced even today by certain memeber of the US goverment.

Why?

And what have american done for the Iraqis? or the Afghans?
In my mind nothing.

Even when you hear of the words by US politician it is laways about SUPPORTING THE TROOPS<did it speak about the torment that the Iraqis/Afghan have to endure?

No it is about US citizens supporting their onw people first.

Is it wrong?
I would say no,it is right for a parentto protect the children,but it is likewise right for the parent to teach the children to apologise for any wrong deeds casued.

That is not happening now,no apologies,no restitution,just bravado and I MA RIGHT,no matter how many Iraqis are dead,I MUST BE SAFE.

I understand what you are saying. The politicians in this country are corrupt. They have no idea what they are doing. They no longer speak for the american public. They only speak for themselves. Please do keep in mind that not all americans feel that way. I can not change where I come from. But I can say to any one that will listen that what is going on is wrong. And there needs to be some major changes.

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

But in all my tirade,i spoke as a human being.

As a msulim,i will always remeber the Quran,the sins of the fahter is the sin of the fahter.
Sin are not passed thru the chidlren.

Inshallah,by Allah i will remember and see each person as their own individuals.

BUT,as a human,when i find out a person is an american no matter of what religion,even a muslim,i would walk away.

As the Prophet say,it is better to walk away then be in anger in one self or to an innocent other.

Inshallah.

[north_malaysian]

Here in Singapore,the whites or Americans are fearful to be seen outside and where ever they go they go in groups for protection.

Eik... in Malaysia, the Americans are happy working, eating etc... they dont have any kind of protection... and Malaysia is a Muslim majority country, unlike Singapore...:confused:

Lots of white backpackers are in Penang right now to see Hindu festival of Thaipussam... some even participate in the parade..

[Bittersteel]

I don't hate Americans just because they are Americans.I actually like the country more than any other European country.I just hate the foreign policy.
still the US has been quite nice with Bangladesh compared to its relations with other Muslim countries.
Though I do hate ultra-liberal hippi-like Islam-hating Americans who meddle in Muslim affairs.Its not just Americans.I hate all types of Islamophobes.

[Keltoi]

Eik... in Malaysia, the Americans are happy working, eating etc... they dont have any kind of protection... and Malaysia is a Muslim majority country, unlike Singapore...:confused:

Lots of white backpackers are in Penang right now to see Hindu festival of Thaipussam... some even participate in the parade..

Why do you think this is?

[MTAFFI]

tomtomsmom

are you some form of ultra liberal? I keep reading your posts and it is like you have no pride in your country. Have you forgotten the attacks on NYC? The thousands that died in those towers because of a radical group that was angry because we helped a country he didnt want us to, who belongs to one of the same groups that are the root of the violence in Iraq today. I do not always agree with what Bush does but I will say this, I would rather live with him as a leader than some Islamic ruler who wants to run the country or world rather under Islamic Law. Many of these people are absolute barbarians, they have lived in tents, caves, mudhouses or whatever much of their lives and then come out firing rockets and setting off bombs after training in a desert camp for a year. Do you not think that there is a war out there to fight? Do you not think if we left all these countries that our embassies and country wouldnt be attacked again? Look at the last 20 years and you will see this isnt the case. You may want to consider who you align yourself with, take a look at Zukliflim he sees an American and goes the other way, I see a Muslim and treat him as I would anyone else no matter what some of his people may have done to mine.

Also I notice you hate Republicans, so are you a democrat, let look at the two:

Republic
Pro Life (no abortion)
No Gay Marriage
Believe all should be equal
Stop illegal immigration
Less mudslinging
Good for the Rich
Strong leadership (in most cases)

Democrat
Pro Choice (for abortion)
Support Gay Marriage
Believe in breaks for minorities
Want to make the illegals legal
Mudsling like crazy (will do or say anything to get in office)
Good for the poor
Weak leadership (mostly cowards and idiots)

[Skillganon]

I hade to add this one: "Landis Drug Test Proves French Hate American Cyclists"
(It's a Joke)
Ref: http://www.alldaycoffee.net/story.php/86

[Cognescenti]

Join the club. Even the republicans hate him and that is saying something. I can't wait till '08!!!

Umm...not really. Since I know something of Bush due to his public profile, I have decided I like Bush, but blindly hate the other 299,999,999 Americans. After all, how many dinner parties have you been to where you have to sit next to someone you have never met and they slurp their soup or something of the sort, so you can't stand them after 5 minutes.

I woulod like to thank the discussants for helping me to formulate my hatred of Americans. Thanks :happy:

[Manu]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakaathu

people should not discrimimate others on the basis of cast,religion,colour,etc.
I have read it is not allowed for a person to hate another unless u see him do an evil or kafir deed.
I personally feel that nobody has the right to hate anybody because he is a muslim or nonmuslim.A muslim should not hate a person because he is a nonmuslim because as long as he is alive he can convert to a muslim and seek Allah forgiveness.And as for a muslim he is not allowed to hate another muslim or nonmuslim.

PRAY FOR ALL.

[islamway]

well before i say something i would to make all muslims confirm with the authentication of ALLAH:-

"O Mankind, we created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you in to " tribes and nations " so that you may know each other (not that you despise each other). Verily, the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is he who is most righteous of you." (Al-Quran, Chapter 49, Verse 13)

so what about the muslims if they are born in AMERICA OR ISRAEL OR BRITAIN is that your mistake ofcourse Allah the greatest created them and made them born in the land where he wishes.So if your in middleeast the land of arabia then your a good muslim,if you keep this kind of thinking then it means you are not a complete muslim,it means you lack knowledge of islam and talk about islam.

see brothers and sisters there are humans in every country who are good and who are bad,there are mulims also and there are kafirs also,Allah created all of us i mean the muslims as well as kafirs equally in every land.But Allah and his messenger gave us the path of how to stay in the land with peace and harmony with the brothers and sisters as well as with the kafirs.

everything is Allah's why sould we hate the land of his beautiful creation:offended: .Its the "badpeople" who are bad who want trouble in the land .

109- The Disbelievers (Al-Kaaferoon)

.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[109:1] Say, "O you disbelievers.

[109:2] "I do not worship what you worship.

[109:3] "Nor do you worship what I worship.

[109:4] "Nor will I ever worship what you worship.

[109:5] "Nor will you ever worship what I worship.

[109:6] "To you is your religion, and to me is my religion."

114- People (Al-Naas)

.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[114:1] Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of the people.

[114:2] "The King of the people.

[114:3] "The god of the people.

[114:4] "From the evils of sneaky whisperers.

[114:5] "Who whisper into the chests of the people.

[114:6] "Be they of the jinns, or the people."

SO THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT HATING .ITS THE PEOPLE WHO" WANT WAR"THEY ARE THE ONES BAD.THEY CREATE TROUBLE NOT THE INNOCENT.THEY ARE BAD WHO even knowing and intensinally VOTE FOR BAD.THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WANT WAR AND THEY ARE ONES TO BE HATED.AND NO DOUBT THEY ARE THE ONES BAD.

“Verily, the Mujrimoon (criminals, sinners, disbelievers) will be in the torment of Hell to abide therein forever.

(The torment) will not be lightened for them, and they will be plunged into destruction with deep regrets, sorrows and in despair therein.

We wronged them not, but they were the Zaalimoon (polytheists, wrongdoers).

And they will cry: ‘O Malik (Keeper of Hell)! Let your Lord make an end of us.” He will say: “Verily, you shall abide forever.’

Indeed We have brought the truth (Muhammad with the Qur’aan) to you, but most of you have a hatred for the truth”

[al-Zukhruf 43:74]

SO NO DOUBT WETHER YOU BORN IN ANY COUNTRY ITS ALLAH'S WISH AND NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO GO AGAINST ALLAH “Allaah is the Creator of all things” [al-Ra’d 13:16]

“Verily, We have created man from Nutfah (drops) of mixed semen (sexual discharge of man and woman), in order to try him, so We made him hearer and seer.

Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful” [al-Insaan 76:2]

“Who has created death and life that He may test you which of you is best in deed”

[al-Mulk 67:2]

jazakllahallahkhair.

[Skillganon]

I hate america because of (Insert here the reasons)

[Cognescenti]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakaathu

people should not discrimimate others on the basis of cast,religion,colour,etc.
I have read it is not allowed for a person to hate another unless u see him do an evil or kafir deed.
I personally feel that nobody has the right to hate anybody because he is a muslim or nonmuslim.A muslim should not hate a person because he is a nonmuslim because as long as he is alive he can convert to a muslim and seek Allah forgiveness.And as for a muslim he is not allowed to hate another muslim or nonmuslim.

PRAY FOR ALL.

Thank you Manu. A very sensible philosphy. The only problem I have with your statement is the mildy offensive notion that a non-Muslim only has worth because he might convert to Islam later. I don't think you meant it to be offensive, however. :happy:

Why don't you run for something..so you can speak out publicly as a moderate and caliming voice? :shade:

[islamway]

I ate american food for lunch.

obviously brother you ate what was halal or lawful to you wether it be american or israel.YOU ATE WHAT ALLAH ORDERED YOU TO EAT HE DINT SAY IF ITS AMERICAN THEN DONT EAT.:D

[tomtomsmom]

tomtomsmom

are you some form of ultra liberal? I keep reading your posts and it is like you have no pride in your country. Have you forgotten the attacks on NYC? The thousands that died in those towers because of a radical group that was angry because we helped a country he didnt want us to, who belongs to one of the same groups that are the root of the violence in Iraq today. I do not always agree with what Bush does but I will say this, I would rather live with him as a leader than some Islamic ruler who wants to run the country or world rather under Islamic Law. Many of these people are absolute barbarians, they have lived in tents, caves, mudhouses or whatever much of their lives and then come out firing rockets and setting off bombs after training in a desert camp for a year. Do you not think that there is a war out there to fight? Do you not think if we left all these countries that our embassies and country wouldnt be attacked again? Look at the last 20 years and you will see this isnt the case. You may want to consider who you align yourself with, take a look at Zukliflim he sees an American and goes the other way, I see a Muslim and treat him as I would anyone else no matter what some of his people may have done to mine.

Also I notice you hate Republicans, so are you a democrat, let look at the two:

Republic
Pro Life (no abortion)
No Gay Marriage
Believe all should be equal
Stop illegal immigration
Less mudslinging
Good for the Rich
Strong leadership (in most cases)

Democrat
Pro Choice (for abortion)
Support Gay Marriage
Believe in breaks for minorities
Want to make the illegals legal
Mudsling like crazy (will do or say anything to get in office)
Good for the poor
Weak leadership (mostly cowards and idiots)

No I have not forgotten what happened on 9/11. That day will be burned into my brain untill the day I die. I can tell you exactly what I was doing when Katie Courick came in the tv saying the tower was on fire and I sat and watched the second plane fly into the towers. That was and always will be a terrible day in US history and my heart goes out to everyone who lost someone dear to them becasue of it. But the actions taken after the attack in my opinion were wrong. There has to have been a better way to handle it. To go to start a fruitless war with two countries is counter productive. This war has not helped. If anything it has made foreign relations worse. There is a bigger hatred for America now more than ever. Does that make us safer?? I align myself with people who want peace in this world. If that makes me an ultra liberal then so be it.

As for me hating republicans that is not true. Every one is intitled to their own oppinion. Just because I don't agree with them doesn't mean that I hate them. Hate is the reason this world is in the state is is now.

On your republican vs democrat I notice you put republicans are against gay marriage yet want everyone to be equal. A bit contradicting if you ask me. And yes they are good for the rich. Perhaps if I was rich I might find that as a good thing. But considering I fit into the category of too rich to be poor and too poor to be rich then their policies do me no good.
And yes, under certain circumstances I think abortion should be legal. This is supposed to be the land of the free. And if a woman wants to marry a woman then that is their business. Though I don't personally agree with it it is their choice on how to live their lives. And as for imagrants I think Carlos Menciea has the right idea. If we kick them all out then there goes the work force. You may not like the idea of making them legal but they do provide valuable services to this country. And even if we do kick them out, they will come back. Why not make them legal so they have to pay taxes just like the rest of us? And the republicans have had their fair share of mudslinging and weak leadership.

[chris4336]

I agree with Islamway, and I think that was a great post. As an American, I find this discussion to be kind of offensive. I thought one of the "unwritten" rules of this board was that we don't pass judgements on large, diverse groups of people based on the actions of a few?

[tomtomsmom]

Umm...not really. Since I know something of Bush due to his public profile, I have decided I like Bush, but blindly hate the other 299,999,999 Americans. After all, how many dinner parties have you been to where you have to sit next to someone you have never met and they slurp their soup or something of the sort, so you can't stand them after 5 minutes.

I woulod like to thank the discussants for helping me to formulate my hatred of Americans. Thanks :happy:

I did not mean that ALL republicans are against Bush. But he has lost the backing of alot of people in his party.

[islamway]

"I only created jinn and man to worship Me" (Surat adh-Dhariyat, 56).

ONE HAS TO ASK QUESTION TO HIMSELF OR HERSELF WETHER YOU BORN IN ANY COUNRY YOU ARE BORN FOR A PURPOSE.

Make a metaphor for them of the life of this world. It is like water that We send down from the sky; the plants of the ground combine with it, but then become dry chaff scattered by the winds. Allah has absolute power over everything. Wealth and sons are the embellishment of the life of this world. But, in your Lord's sight, right actions that are lasting bring a better reward and are a better basis for hope. (Surat al-Kahf, 45-46)

Say: "Shall I inform you of the greatest losers in their actions? People whose efforts in the life of this world are misguided while they suppose that they are doing good." Those are the people who reject their Lord's Signs and the meeting with Him. Their actions will come to nothing and, on the Day of Resurrection, We will not assign them any weight. (Surat al-Kahf, 103-5)

We did not give any human being before you immortality. And if you die, will they then be immortal? Every person will taste death. We test you with both good and evil as a trial. And you will be returned to Us. (Surat al-Anbiya', 34-35)

JAZAKALLAHKHAIR.

[tomtomsmom]

I agree with Islamway, and I think that was a great post. As an American, I find this discussion to be kind of offensive. I thought one of the "unwritten" rules of this board was that we don't pass judgements on large, diverse groups of people based on the actions of a few?

I am sorry that you find this thread offensive. It started from another thread where there was a brother that said he hated all americans. I simply wanted to find out why he hated ALL americans and not just the bad ones. This is a thread to discuss that and hopefully show that not all americans are bad people. Once again sister I am sorry to have offended you.

[MTAFFI]

No I have not forgotten what happened on 9/11. That day will be burned into my brain untill the day I die. I can tell you exactly what I was doing when Katie Courick came in the tv saying the tower was on fire and I sat and watched the second plane fly into the towers. That was and always will be a terrible day in US history and my heart goes out to everyone who lost someone dear to them becasue of it. But the actions taken after the attack in my opinion were wrong. There has to have been a better way to handle it. To go to start a fruitless war with two countries is counter productive. This war has not helped. If anything it has made foreign relations worse. There is a bigger hatred for America now more than ever. Does that make us safer?? I align myself with people who want peace in this world. If that makes me an ultra liberal then so be it.

And do you think that the people who want to take over Iraq or afghanistan would make our country safer. By simply preventing certain groups from coming to power it makes our country safer. There hasnt been another attack on US soil has there? Not that I know of, I actually feel safer flying on planes now than I did before 9/11, why you might ask? Because this has been going on a lot longer than 9/11.. Bill Clinton (a worthless democrat) could have taken bin Laden out long before 9/11 but didnt because he didnt want to stir the pot, so what happened someone else did it for him only he wasnt lucky enough to be in office. Tell me what would you have done if you were Bush and this all happened on your clock?

As for me hating republicans that is not true. Every one is intitled to their own oppinion. Just because I don't agree with them doesn't mean that I hate them. Hate is the reason this world is in the state is is now.

agreed

On your republican vs democrat I notice you put republicans are against gay marriage yet want everyone to be equal. A bit contradicting if you ask me. And yes they are good for the rich. Perhaps if I was rich I might find that as a good thing. But considering I fit into the category of too rich to be poor and too poor to be rich then their policies do me no good.
And yes, under certain circumstances I think abortion should be legal. This is supposed to be the land of the free. And if a woman wants to marry a woman then that is their business. Though I don't personally agree with it it is their choice on how to live their lives. And as for imagrants I think Carlos Menciea has the right idea. If we kick them all out then there goes the work force. You may not like the idea of making them legal but they do provide valuable services to this country. And even if we do kick them out, they will come back. Why not make them legal so they have to pay taxes just like the rest of us? And the republicans have had their fair share of mudslinging and weak leadership.

Gays are not equal and they choose not to be when they choose to be with the same sex. Abortion is wrong no matter how you cut it, especially since there are so many that cant have children that would gladly adopt someone's "would be" murdered baby. Carlos Mencia is hilarious but not someone I would quote or consult with on immigration. This is because the illegals want to stay but they still wouldnt be paying taxes, which is the main problem, yeah they work and do dirty jobs, but it isnt like people werent here doing it before they were, and believe me America could survive without them. You know I saw some people on the news the other day killed by a drunk illegal mexican with no insurance or driver license, and left a family devastated with no route to take for justice.. why because you need someone to clean the toilets and cut the grass. I say send them home and let them apply for citizenship just like everyone else. Illegal is illegal

[tomtomsmom]

And do you think that the people who want to take over Iraq or afghanistan would make our country safer. By simply preventing certain groups from coming to power it makes our country safer. There hasnt been another attack on US soil has there? Not that I know of, I actually feel safer flying on planes now than I did before 9/11, why you might ask? Because this has been going on a lot longer than 9/11.. Bill Clinton (a worthless democrat) could have taken bin Laden out long before 9/11 but didnt because he didnt want to stir the pot, so what happened someone else did it for him only he wasnt lucky enough to be in office. Tell me what would you have done if you were Bush and this all happened on your clock?



agreed



Gays are not equal and they choose not to be when they choose to be with the same sex. Abortion is wrong no matter how you cut it, especially since there are so many that cant have children that would gladly adopt someone's "would be" murdered baby. Carlos Mencia is hilarious but not someone I would quote or consult with on immigration. This is because the illegals want to stay but they still wouldnt be paying taxes, which is the main problem, yeah they work and do dirty jobs, but it isnt like people werent here doing it before they were, and believe me America could survive without them. You know I saw some people on the news the other day killed by a drunk illegal mexican with no insurance or driver license, and left a family devastated with no route to take for justice.. why because you need someone to clean the toilets and cut the grass. I say send them home and let them apply for citizenship just like everyone else. Illegal is illegal

What would I have done- Not sure, but I wouldn't have announced that I was coming for them. That only gave them a chance to run.

Homosexuals-They are people just like anyone else. Just because they are different does not make them less human.

Abortion-Yes there are many people who cannot have children and that is very sad. There are also thousands of children is the foster care system already that need good homes. I said under certain circumstances abortion should be legal. If you are some stupid girl who sleeps around and gets knocked up then that is your fault. But if you are raped and then get pregnant from that I don't think that the woman/girl should be forced to have that baby. She did not have the choice to have sex but she should have the choice on if she should have to give birth to her rapists baby.

[MTAFFI]

What would I have done- Not sure, but I wouldn't have announced that I was coming for them. That only gave them a chance to run.

I wouldnt have announced it either but it seems everything has to be put past someone anymore, he couldnt just invade he had to declare war

Homosexuals-They are people just like anyone else. Just because they are different does not make them less human.

It makes them nasty humans

Abortion-Yes there are many people who cannot have children and that is very sad. There are also thousands of children is the foster care system already that need good homes. I said under certain circumstances abortion should be legal. If you are some stupid girl who sleeps around and gets knocked up then that is your fault. But if you are raped and then get pregnant from that I don't think that the woman/girl should be forced to have that baby. She did not have the choice to have sex but she should have the choice on if she should have to give birth to her rapists baby.

The rape instance is the only instance where I could partially agree, but only partially because it still isnt the babies fault that it was conceived, so why should its life be ended so soon? That is a discussion for somewhere else though, but I can understand your point

[islamway]

What is Islam?
The Arabic word 'Islam' stands for 'Submission' or 'Peace'. In a religious context, it implies the peace that reaches out to one when one completely submits oneself to the will of Almighty God. This is achieved only when the individual acts in accordance with the direction of his Creator in all spheres of life.


Who is Muslim?
The word 'Muslim' means one who has submitted oneself to the Omnipotent Creator. A true Muslim is one who has disciplined his life in accordance with the instructions conveyed by God through His messengers. A person becomes a Muslim not by birth alone, but by his faith and deeds.

"We have not sent thee but as a (Messenger) to all mankind, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men know not." Holy Qur'an 37:15

How are the societies that have been conceived by Islaam?
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other not that may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."

Islaam teaches that all men are the creations of the One and Only God and that they exist under His protection. It is from a single matter, the essence of clay, that everyone has been created. The origin of all humanity is from the first parents - Adam and Eve. The distinctions that men have created have absolutely no place before the Almighty who created them. The worship offered only to One True God is the source of strength that can unite mankind. Narrow mindedness and shriveled outlook disappear when one prostrates before the almighty. When one realizes that faith and good deeds alone are what makes a man noble in the presence of God, all hastiness and arrogance fostered by pride and vanity and he becomes humble and pious. With the realization that there is only one God, and that all men are His servants, with no distinction between the rich and the poor, the native and the foreigner, the fair and the dark, the elite and the lowly, the master and the slave, they prostrate only before him, the Almighty, the Merciful. This is the picture of the society that has been conceived by Islam, a society without narrow boundaries.

What does Islaam say about the neighbourhood?

I swear in His Name, Who holds my life, no man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.

Know that you are good if your neighbours speak well of you. Know that you are bad if your neighbours speak badly about you. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH)

Just as relationship in a family, Islaam views that the relationship between neighbours ought to be warm and cordial. The Prophet (PBUH) advised decent behaviour to the neighbours without causing any kind of disturbance to them. He taught us to take into account the opinion of the neighbour with regard to one's character and personality. It is clear that the mutual responsibility amongst neighbours is indeed significant, as exemplified by the advice of the Prophet when he said that no true Muslim fills his belly when his neighbour is starving and that should be considered even if one has to dilute the broth by adding a little water.

Can a Muslim be communal?
Islaam teaches that it is not one's birth, but good deeds and faith that determine one's nobility. The Islaamic slogan "One God for one mankind" aims at eliminating all the narrow views, like communalism, casteism, racism etc. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) declared in plain words that "He who invites to communalism, fights and dies for communalism, not belong to us". The followers of Muhammed (PBUH) therefore can never be communal.

What should be the approach of Muslims towards non-Muslims?
The teachings of Islam states that the Muslim community should coexist in complete harmony and tolerance with people of other religious communities. The Qur'an prescribes that as long as the other communities do not oppress the members of the Muslim community, they ought to coexist in love and tolerance. This has been demonstrated by Muhammed (PBUH) through his life. Even the subjects of a Caliphate have no right to hamper the freedom of faith nor the freedom of worship of the non-Muslim citizens. The ruler is liable for the complete protection of their lives and property. The Prophet (PBUH) has taught that it is an unpardonable sin to be unjust to non-Muslim citizens.

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loveth those who are just." Holy Qur'an 60:8

How did Islaam spread in the world?
The reason for the rapid spread of Islaam was the attraction that the thinking people developed towards an ideal free from superstition upholding the worship of the 'One and Only God', the Creator and the pursuit of His messengers. It was only natural for those thinking people to be drawn to the practice of a faith that sought the path of 'surrender to God', at a time when their perceptions were fogged by false deities, and their agents who posed as priests. The ideal of 'One God, one humanity', simultaneously put forth by Islaam, uproots the parochial beliefs put up in the name of ones birth. The access to the message of 'one humanity' experienced by those who were being oppressed in the name of religion and caste, further led to the propagation of Islaam. The selfless and sincere lives led by Muslims who migrated different parts of the world for business purposes and the like, also drew the people of those countries to Islaam.

To this day, Islaam, which occupies the mind of man though manifold noble ways, continues to influence the thoughts and deeds of millions of peoples in all continents around the world, with its sterling ideals.

[chris4336]

No, don't worry TomTomsMom I didn't mean you at all, I understand you just wanted to continue a discussion I just meant the kinds of ideas that were being expressed here...

[Woodrow]

No, don't worry TomTomsMom I didn't mean you at all, I understand you just wanted to continue a discussion I just meant the kinds of ideas that were being expressed here...

In my opinion if negative comments can be brought out into the open and discussed peacefully it opens the door for either the comments to be shown to be false or if true give the offender the chance to see the error.

I can honestly understand why so many non-Americans believe they hate America and Americans. There is as much of a propaganda war taking place to show the evils of America as America perpetrates to show the good of Amarica.

The truth is someplace in between. But, the overall thing that matters is how any individual person is, not where he is from or what he claims to be.

It is up to you and me to be the best we can be and to truly live in accordance with our beliefs beyond that it is up to each of us to see each person we meet as a person and not as a label.

[Goku]

Hate is a strong term, I dont hate Americans. On a demonic anti-Islam and anti-Muslim forum there are some really nasty and arrogent Americans as well as people from other countries (they hate Muslims with a passion) but I dont want to generalise. On this forum there are really nice, pleasent Americans. People have different views and America is pretty diverse. They are people like me. Generally I like to think the good in people until proven otherwise.

[Muezzin]

I don't hate Americans. I don't blame the people for the stupidity of certain of their leaders' actions.

[FBI]

Edit

[starfortress]

:sl:

US urged to halt Malaysia talks over Iran deal

By Doug Palmer

WASHINGTON, Feb 1 (Reuters) - U.S. trade officials said on Thursday they are reviewing a lawmaker's request for the United States to cut off free trade talks with Malaysia over a $16 billion energy development deal with Iran.

House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Tom Lantos, a California Democrat, raised concerns over the deal signed last month between Malaysia's SKS and the state-owned National Iranian Oil Company.

"This is a disturbing development that I believe requires swift action by the administration," Lantos said in a letter on Wednesday to U.S. Trade Representative Susan Schwab.

"I therefore request that your office formally suspend all FTA (Free Trade Agreement) negotiations with the Government of Malaysia until and unless the Government of Malaysia ensures that the SKS agreement with Iran is canceled," Lantos said.

The Iranian oil company and SKS signed the $16 billion preliminary deal to develop Iran's southern Golshan and Ferdos gas fields and build plants to produce liquefied natural gas, Iranian state television reported on Jan. 7.

Lantos said the deal potentially requires the United States to penalize SKS under the recently expanded Iran Sanctions Act, which calls for steps against companies involved in Iranian energy development.

Continued...

How do you expect us Malaysian feel on that matters.I just hate your foreign policies.

[Goku]

:sl:



How do you expect us Malaysian feel on that matters.I just hate your foreign policies.

Thats not policy, thats bullying. The US Government has tried to bully the EU and Russia into cutting off trade with Iran, in such a situation, the affected countries should give the US the middle finger, they are acting like the dictator of the world, they have no right to try and stop other countries from dealing with Iran.

[j4763]

Do you hate Americans?

Yeah, cant stand the yanks. With all there emotional crap. They seem to cry over anything. Not like us brits, stiff upper lip and all that! :D

Only joking us tommys love you guys really :okay:

[Woodrow]

Thats not policy, thats bullying. The US Government has tried to bully the EU and Russia into cutting off trade with Iran, in such a situation, the affected countries should give the US the middle finger, they are acting like the dictator of the world, they have no right to try and stop other countries from dealing with Iran.

I do agree, we have no right to try and stop other countries from dealing with Iran. If we have an honest concern that it is in your and our best interest we do have a right to say so, but we do not have the right to threaten or bully you into agreeing.

[Cognescenti]

Thats not policy, thats bullying. The US Government has tried to bully the EU and Russia into cutting off trade with Iran, in such a situation, the affected countries should give the US the middle finger, they are acting like the dictator of the world, they have no right to try and stop other countries from dealing with Iran.

If you have the power to decline a request of the US government....then do it and stop whining about it. The Russians do it all the time. I am pretty certain the US has no plans for invading Malaysia. :okay:

Keep in mind, though, that if diplomatic measures fail and there is a shooting war with Iran 5 years from now....the Malaysian economy is going into the tank with everyone else.

BTW...often its the same crowd complaining about the exercise of American military power that complains when diplomacy is tried. What do you think diplomacy is? Everyone sitting down for tea and having a nice chat?

In a sense, America is in an impossible situation, everyone wants the US to solve problems (the rescue effort in Aceh or the salvation of the Muslims in Kosovo) but the minute somebody gets their hair mussed up we are the Great Satan. It grows tiresome.

[Zulkiflim]

Eik... in Malaysia, the Americans are happy working, eating etc... they dont have any kind of protection... and Malaysia is a Muslim majority country, unlike Singapore...:confused:

Lots of white backpackers are in Penang right now to see Hindu festival of Thaipussam... some even participate in the parade..

Salaam,

No lah protection as in not being alone..lah..

If you go around Orchard Road or in town,they normally congeregate together to get a sense of being wiht their own kind,they wont go to where asian are more.

In fact you will see many white in town but not elsewhere,,oh an sentosa..

But that all..i think..LOL

[Zulkiflim]

If you have the power to decline a request of the US government....then do it and stop whining about it. The Russians do it all the time. I am pretty certain the US has no plans for invading Malaysia. :okay:

Keep in mind, though, that if diplomatic measures fail and there is a shooting war with Iran 5 years from now....the Malaysian economy is going into the tank with everyone else.

BTW...often its the same crowd complaining about the exercise of American military power that complains when diplomacy is tried. What do you think diplomacy is? Everyone sitting down for tea and having a nice chat?

In a sense, America is in an impossible situation, everyone wants the US to solve problems (the rescue effort in Aceh or the salvation of the Muslims in Kosovo) but the minute somebody gets their hair mussed up we are the Great Satan. It grows tiresome.

Salaam,

that the problem,people asked the US to intervene,i am really unsure why this thought reared its ugly head.

But it is not at the request of the work,it is more due to bravado.

US started to interven in world politics after winning the world war,and that boosted its ego,,it can do no wrong.

And becasue of this,it dont apologise to anyone since.

Search google for BLOWBACK and look at the cost of US interference overseas.

[Hashim_507]

I love America, there is nothing wrong with this country. I've live in other nations, none of them was better than U.S. You can hate the government or its foreign policy but u.s is great nation itself.

[syilla]

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...ericans-p1.php

check this out!!!

[starfortress]

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...ericans-p1.php

check this out!!!

I just watched it,i cant't believe those people are so naive:confused: and i also believe they aren't totally represent for all Americans.

[syilla]

I just watched it,i cant't believe those people are so naive:confused: and i also believe they aren't totally represent for all Americans.

If they interviewed the Malaysians it'll be the same too :giggling:

[starfortress]

If they interviewed the Malaysians it'll be the same too :giggling:

Yep for sure, they wouldn't care anything much, besides themselves.Im sorry,i shouldn't expecting other peoples tend to have a knowledge as we wish,cause it's contradicted with the human right:p

[imaad_udeen]

As i would say that muslim in the US would go in groups for protection especially when whites are around,especially for men and women who wear the hijab or have a beard.

Nice, racist. I'm white.

[imaad_udeen]

Thats not policy, thats bullying. The US Government has tried to bully the EU and Russia into cutting off trade with Iran, in such a situation, the affected countries should give the US the middle finger, they are acting like the dictator of the world, they have no right to try and stop other countries from dealing with Iran.

Bullying implies a threat of force.

[imaad_udeen]

I do agree, we have no right to try and stop other countries from dealing with Iran. If we have an honest concern that it is in your and our best interest we do have a right to say so, but we do not have the right to threaten or bully you into agreeing.

The US never threatened the EU or Russia with force. We may have used influence in other ways, but no threats of force. It is within our rights to not do business with those who do business with the enemy.

[Malaikah]

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...ericans-p1.php

check this out!!!

Q: "Whats the religion of Isreal"
A: "Isreali"

LOL!!!;D That was hilarious.

Okay- the John Howard this was just scary. :uuh:

[Cognescenti]

Q: "Whats the religion of Isreal"
A: "Isreali"

LOL!!!;D That was hilarious.

Okay- the John Howard this was just scary. :uuh:

A minor point, perhaps, but that is not how you spell "Israel".

NEWS FLASH!!! 300 million people live in the US. Not all of them are professors of physics or mathematics.

It seems we at once, insular, self-absorbed bumkins, ignorant of the outside world and savvy, rapacious colonialists. Quite an accomplishment, don't you think?

Guys...if a bloke works as a transmission mechanic in Topeka, Kansas, he doesn't have to know anything about Malaysia and he doesn't have to speak a foreign language. That isn't cultural jingoism, it is just reality. All the repair manuals are printed in English.

Listen: There are 120 languages spoken by students in the Los Angeles Unified School District. It is home to the largest Mexican population outside of
Mexico, the largest Armenian population outside of Armenia, the largest Korean population outside of Korea etc etc etc. We have a Governor from Austria and a Mayor with Englsih as a second language.

Americans don't wear powdered wigs and all look like Thomas Jefferson anymore either. Wake up and smell the shade-grown coffee. The real threat isn't a American carrier battle group with F-18's appearing on the horizon, it is all the smart, educated, entrepenuers moving from <insert name of your favorite country here> to the US to make a fortune.

To all our 3rd world friends, who spy a US plot behind every palm tree, Y''all need to develop open, democratic political systems, free-market economies, eliminate corruption, establish the concept of private ownership protected by an unimpeachable legal system...add low taxation..cover and simmer for 200 years and everything will be fine.

Of course, you could moan and gripe 24 hrs a day about outside, powerful forces making your life what it is. That might work.

[MTAFFI]

^hilarious :D :happy: :smile: :sunny: :haha:

[Keltoi]

A minor point, perhaps, but that is not how you spell "Israel".

NEWS FLASH!!! 300 million people live in the US. Not all of them are professors of physics or mathematics.

It seems we at once, insular, self-absorbed bumkins, ignorant of the outside world and savvy, rapacious colonialists. Quite an accomplishment, don't you think?

Guys...if a bloke works as a transmission mechanic in Topeka, Kansas, he doesn't have to know anything about Malaysia and he doesn't have to speak a foreign language. That isn't cultural jingoism, it is just reality. All the repair manuals are printed in English.

Listen: There are 120 languages spoken by students in the Los Angeles Unified School District. It is home to the largest Mexican population outside of
Mexico, the largest Armenian population outside of Armenia, the largest Korean population outside of Korea etc etc etc. We have a Governor from Austria and a Mayor with Englsih as a second language.

Americans don't wear powdered wigs and all look like Thomas Jefferson anymore either. Wake up and smell the shade-grown coffee. The real threat isn't a American carrier battle group with F-18's appearing on the horizon, it is all the smart, educated, entrepenuers moving from <insert name of your favorite country here> to the US to make a fortune.

To all our 3rd world friends, who spy a US plot behind every palm tree, Y''all need to develop open, democratic political systems, free-market economies, eliminate corruption, establish the concept of private ownership protected by an unimpeachable legal system...add low taxation..cover and simmer for 200 years and everything will be fine.

Of course, you could moan and gripe 24 hrs a day about outside, powerful forces making your life what it is. That might work.

Ever thought about starting a radio talkshow? :D

[AHMED_GUREY]

Do you hate Americans? - 2 Days Ago

Americans = US/Canadians

No!

Americans = Latin Americans

No!

[Pygoscelis]

I'm not muslim and I'm not from the USA :) Does that make me unique on this board? I am technically american, but so is Chavez. I'm Canadian.

I hate the current US regime in power as well as the stereotypical american. Lets not forget these people - the ones who wave the US flag and scream about "USA USA USA, #1" etc. Who care more about US interests than foreign lives. The loudmouths. THe stereotype exists for a reason, as many of these people do roam the streets of the USA.

But of course, there are many nice decent people in the USA too, they just don't get the attention, don't form a stereotype, and don't draw my ire.

Edited to add: Actually thats a good point. Even the name "america" in reference to the US is arrogant. Calling the US "America" is like calling France "Europe".

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Your right. The good don't get enough publicity.

[Woodrow]

I do have to agree with this comment.

Edited to add: Actually thats a good point. Even the name "america" in reference to the US is arrogant. Calling the US "America" is like calling France "Europe".

America is a lot bigger than just the USA. When a person speaks of America that includes many countries. Plus we are all Americans in terms of living in America. Fidel Castro and Chavez are just as Much American as George Bush, in fact they are more American as their forefathers were here centuries before George Bush"s ancestors were.

[Pygoscelis]

Chavez should SO put that in his next speech. He seems to enjoy riling the Bushies. He should say something to the effect of "I'm proud to be an American!" lol

Also, he and other anti-bush south americans should join up and form a coalition called the "United States of America".

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^LOL! thatd be hilarious...;D

[Cognescenti]

There seem to be 3 main foci of anti-Americansim here:

1) Bitterness over a perceived American war on Islam. This, I think, could be assuaged by ammending the US Consitution, establishing Islam as the state religion and applying Sharia. Challenging, yes, but at least still possible. Of course, this would mean the end of Baywatch reruns, but, such is life.

2) Anger, frustration and, even jealousy over economic disparity. The free market will ultimately fix this, but it will take some time. Note the ironic fact that Vietnam, which might understandibly harbor some resentment toward the US, and ostensibly fought to establish a Marxist state, now gets this and has jumped in with both feet, welcoming US tourists and strongly courting business ties.

3) The most intractible problem seems to be the international eunuchoid movement, who, quite naturally, resent those who retain that which God has given them. I can't see a solution to this poblem......... ..........................except...perhaps.....<sh udders>

[Cognescenti]

On this issue of usurpation of the term "American"...again, it is not arrogance or cultural jingoism, but simply a question of practicality. What do you expect residents of the US to call themselves?

"US'ers"...cumbersome
"Yanks"...historically inappropriate

Besides...think of all those "America Go Home", "America, Get Out of XXXX" and "Ugly American" posters that would have to be thrown out. We already have a landfill shortage on the planet.

Many may not know, but the Mexicans (and most of the other Central Americans) already call us Norteamericanos (when they are being polite..otherwise its "Gringo" or "Anglo" or a number of other unmentionables)

Of course, this doesn't say much for what Central Americans think of Canada :smile:

Lastly, for the Hugo fans...I hope you are getting some really good odds, because I think you are backing the wrong horse.

[Cognescenti]

I do have to agree with this comment.



America is a lot bigger than just the USA. When a person speaks of America that includes many countries. Plus we are all Americans in terms of living in America. Fidel Castro and Chavez are just as Much American as George Bush, in fact they are more American as their forefathers were here centuries before George Bush"s ancestors were.

Fidel Casto is a Native American ? :uuh: That is news to me.

BTW...there are many hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Cubans who now call themselves "Americans"...a significant number of them floated in overloaded craft or half swam through 90 miles of shark infested waters to get here. I guess they weren't too worried about American cultural hegemony, were they?

[England]

Why should we hate the Americans apart from pure bigotry? State your reasons.

[Erundur]

Fidel Casto is a Native American ? :uuh: That is news to me.

BTW...there are many hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Cubans who now call themselves "Americans"...a significant number of them floated in overloaded craft or half swam through 90 miles of shark infested waters to get here. I guess they weren't too worried about American cultural hegemony, were they?

:salamext:

Castro could be native american since many of the conquistadores that came to conquer central and south america basically took a lot of indigenous women and used them for there own sexual purposes. I believe he has some Native American blood in him.

As for me...Nope, I do not hate Americans be it South, Central, or North.

a lot of people from the U.S. are very nice just as a lot of people are not. It can be applied anywhere.

As for the U.S. constitution its one **** fine piece of legislation for a secular document. Including the Bill of Rights.:thumbs_up

Plus having the ability to make games like God of War, Gears of War, Kingdom Hearts, Madden and various other games doesn't make them seem bad either:p

:sl:

[brenton]

Why should we hate the Americans apart from pure bigotry? State your reasons.

I wonder this too. I don't hate Americans; I'm just glad I don't have to live in that culture. I fear for my niece and nephew who live there, but they are part of a loving community, so I'm sure they'll be okay.

In fact, I love Americans, and many of the things they've brought to our world.

As for terminology: get over it. I'm North American (Canadian), but not American. I don't mind. Catholic and American and latin and all kinds of words have become more specific than they really are. Oh well, learn and move on.

[Woodrow]

I wonder this too. I don't hate Americans; I'm just glad I don't have to live in that culture. I fear for my niece and nephew who live there, but they are part of a loving community, so I'm sure they'll be okay.

In fact, I love Americans, and many of the things they've brought to our world.

As for terminology: get over it. I'm North American (Canadian), but not American. I don't mind. Catholic and American and latin and all kinds of words have become more specific than they really are. Oh well, learn and move on.

All of that is true. The Americas are very diverse. There really is no such thing as a single culture that can be called American. Immediatly you have the differences between North American and South American. North American you have the immediate differences between Canadian, USA and Mexican. Then within each you have the seperate States and Communities. Each is very distinct and individual. The term American covers a lot of ground. I think the problem is many people are under the misconception that there is a single American ideology and that is what they tend to label all Americans as.

[Cognescenti]

I do have to agree with this comment.

America is a lot bigger than just the USA. When a person speaks of America that includes many countries. Plus we are all Americans in terms of living in America. Fidel Castro and Chavez are just as Much American as George Bush, in fact they are more American as their forefathers were here centuries before George Bush"s ancestors were.

Woodrow;

In regard to Castro, it seems his father was a Spanish immigrant and his mother was described by Cubans as a "mulatto" domestic servant. This is usually used by Spanish-speakers to describe people of mixed African and European heritage. "Mestizo" is the term usually reserved by Spanish speakers for mixed European and Native American heritage. So it seems, Castro, like Bush, is the son of immigrants to the new world, some voluntary, some not so.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Pygoscelis]

Well the difficulty of USA people calling themselves something more specific than "american" is self inflicted though now isn't it? I mean, isn't it about time this country gave itself a real name?

I suggest Fred. From now on all USA people I shall call Freds.

[Cognescenti]

Well the difficulty of USA people calling themselves something more specific than "american" is self inflicted though now isn't it? I mean, isn't it about time this country gave itself a real name?

I suggest Fred. From now on all USA people I shall call Freds.

Cool idea! As in Fredonia you mean?

There may be some copyright issues.

[Pygoscelis]

Well I'll give them the choice then. THey may be Fred or they may be Sally.

[guyabano]

Ok so in another thread the statement "I hate Americans" has been brought up several times. With the moderators permission I would like to discuss this further. Anyone who posts in this thread please leave your anger outside because I really want this to be a civilized discussion.

I realize that there is great hatred in the world for the action of the USA over the years. I as an american hate that too. But to generalize that all american are evil sits wrong for me. Is it not the same as saying all mulisms are terrorists?

NO, I don't hate americans. In fact, I pity them. They live in a LALA Land, pretending it's made of Milk and Honey (or call it Coca Cola and Mc Donalds). But fact is, they have such a short history, have no experience collected over centuries, but then, like to play World Police, but behave like a child with a gun in the hand. So pityful !

Anyway, this is the Worldmap according to USofA you can find in every Bookstore over there

[Keltoi]

NO, I don't hate americans. In fact, I pity them. They live in a LALA Land, pretending it's made of Milk and Honey (or call it Coca Cola and Mc Donalds). But fact is, they have such a short history, have no experience collected over centuries, but then, like to play World Police, but behave like a child with a gun in the hand. So pityful !

Anyway, this is the Worldmap according to USofA you can find in every Bookstore over there

The United States as quite a bit of experience packed into that short history. As for your little map image there, it looks real cute and funny. Not sure what you are trying to suggest with it however, unless you assume that Americans are somehow ignorant of the rest of the world. Of course some Americans don't care about Portugal, why should they? The reason Europeans care more about geography is because their countries are locked together like a jigsaw puzzle. Hard to escape that.

[MTAFFI]

NO, I don't hate americans. In fact, I pity them. They live in a LALA Land, pretending it's made of Milk and Honey (or call it Coca Cola and Mc Donalds). But fact is, they have such a short history, have no experience collected over centuries, but then, like to play World Police, but behave like a child with a gun in the hand. So pityful !

Anyway, this is the Worldmap according to USofA you can find in every Bookstore over there

Being an American I pity you for having such distorted childish views of the world around you. What is really sad, is that you are right we have a short history, but in that short history we have accomplished more for our society today than any other country. I would love to see what your map of the world looks like... :D

[SATalha]

I think the map sums it up for me. Lol I am only joking

[PCJS]

I personally have never been able to understand this. There are many people in America who say they hate America and yet they are the ones who immigrated to America from somewhere else. If you hate America, why not stay back in your own country, the one you love?

[SATalha]

Some people didnt have the choice mate. Like the African Americans

[SATalha]

Use ur ed

[PCJS]

I know about African Americans. But I am talking about the recent immigrants...

[SATalha]

Yeah ok. But doesnt mean that they dont have thet right to say this country is a bunch of bananas. The present guvernment is detested by many white Americans (cant call them native).

[PCJS]

Actually I think America and other Western countries made big mistakes by having immigration system. If there were no immigration, there wouldn't be any 9/11 or any other terrorist attacks.

[Cognescenti]

NO, I don't hate americans. In fact, I pity them. They live in a LALA Land, pretending it's made of Milk and Honey (or call it Coca Cola and Mc Donalds). But fact is, they have such a short history, have no experience collected over centuries, but then, like to play World Police, but behave like a child with a gun in the hand. So pityful !

Anyway, this is the Worldmap according to USofA you can find in every Bookstore over there

Yuck, yuck, yuck. Good one bro. Thanks for your pity...that is very...what's the word......arrogant of you.

Yes, amigo, we do have a comparatively short history as a nation. You will note; however, we have never had a dictator or a monarchical tyrant. No other nation has had to come to our aid to restore our sovereign territory. We have the longest uninterrupted democracy (on a national level..some Swiss Cantons are the only exception) in the history of planet Earth. On the issue of the dragon infested areas of your map..apparently Americans have deduced they are not carnivorous dragons as they seem to enjoy the donated bags of grain with "Product of USA" stamped on the bag that we send over there in great numbers every year.

As for the Commie thing.....thrupence if you correctly identify the inventor of the phrase "Iron Curtain". You might want to also ask the Poles, Czechs, East Germans, Latvians, Lithuanians etc, etc what they though about their little detour.

Lastly, who does your hair? nice look. :okay:

[sojourner]

NO, I don't hate americans. In fact, I pity them. They live in a LALA Land, pretending it's made of Milk and Honey (or call it Coca Cola and Mc Donalds). But fact is, they have such a short history, have no experience collected over centuries, but then, like to play World Police, but behave like a child with a gun in the hand. So pityful !

Anyway, this is the Worldmap according to USofA you can find in every Bookstore over there

OK, so apparently you hate the way that some Americans in their ignorance thend to to think way too much of themselves and not enough of others...and i agree, that happens.
But this map is offensive to the rest of us who do not think that way.
And honestly, are you not doing the same thing that you hate?

[MTAFFI]

a better question is who actually has the time in a day to draw a ridiculous map like this....lol... maybe this person might wanna go outside and breathe some fresh air

[Muezzin]

Actually I think America and other Western countries made big mistakes by having immigration system. If there were no immigration, there wouldn't be any 9/11 or any other terrorist attacks.

Yeah, or the Oklahoma bombing.

Oh wait, that was committed by some disturbed, white American.

Why did they let his parents into the country?

I'm not even going to mention how the USA started off as a haven for immigrants (and why not? Being a haven for people all around the world is admirable)

[Woodrow]

Actually I think America and other Western countries made big mistakes by having immigration system. If there were no immigration, there wouldn't be any 9/11 or any other terrorist attacks.

Unless you are from one of the native American Tribes, your ancestors and possibly you are immigrants.


No Immigration would send nearly all of us out of the country, and if we were allowed to stay it would keep us from bringing in family members that did not make it here in time.

[Cognescenti]

Unless you are from one of the native American Tribes, your ancestors and possibly you are immigrants.


No Immigration would send nearly all of us out of the country, and if we were allowed to stay it would keep us from bringing in family members that did not make it here in time.

Guys (Muezzin and Woodrow);

PCJS lists his belief system as Sikh and his wording suggested to me he was making a commentary about US immigration as an outsider.

You will note that none of the American posters have agreed with him. I am pretty sure none of the 9-11 murderers were "immigrants" in the technical sense (green cards). I think they were all here on visas.

Of course, after 9-11, the terribly porous visa record-keeping was tightened up. Naturally, we were criticized for this too :smile:


PS: Creation myths aside, it seems likely even the "Native Americans" aren't native to the Americas.

[Muezzin]

I suspected that member was not from the US, but I just wanted to clarify the problems with his statement. However, I'm grouchy because of too much coursework and lack of sleep, so my messages may appear even more offensive than usual. If they do, I apologise.

[Pygoscelis]

I've seen that map before. I got a good chuckle out of it, but its outdated. The current one should have reference to "Terrists" all over the place.

[Cognescenti]

I've seen that map before. I got a good chuckle out of it, but its outdated. The current one should have reference to "Terrists" all over the place.

Here you go Pygo. A more current one:

[PCJS]

Well folks,

Just as an FYI, I am a naturalized US citizen. But that shouldn't matter. I wouldn't favor something just because I benefitted from it.

Timothy McVeigh didn't belong to a group that was as large as the terrorists responsible for 9/11. It wouldn't invading a country like Afghanistan to catch Timothy McVeigh. He was internal and these terrorist are external getting their training somewhere else and coming to the US just to commit terrorist acts, just because they are allowed to come here.

I have question for all. Would you accept American constitution or would you rather have Islamic law in America?

[Pygoscelis]

Given that the US doesn't really follow either anymore, isn't the point moot?

[Cognescenti]

Given that the US doesn't really follow either anymore, isn't the point moot?

Can't tell if that is meant to be a joke. I suspect not. You need to read something that doesn't have Noam Chomsky or Michael Moore as the author. Your political slip is showing from under your burka.

[PCJS]

I knew the answer would just that...

You wanna see Islamic Law throughout the world. That means no democracy, no freedom of religion, men having more rights than women...

[PCJS]

You wanna bring to the West because of what you left your own countries...

Have a good day :)

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

Actually I think America and other Western countries made big mistakes by having immigration system. If there were no immigration, there wouldn't be any 9/11 or any other terrorist attacks

America was founded by immigrants - if there were no immigration, the US of A wouldn't exist.

I knew the answer would just that...

You wanna see Islamic Law throughout the world. That means no democracy, no freedom of religion, men having more rights than women...

FYI, sharia law is the best form of democracy, also there is freedom of religion. I suggest you research, in addition to history, sharia law in depth, before you go shooting your mouth off.

[PCJS]

Amirsaab, so what are you saying? You do wanna see Islamic Law in the West? Well that should be enough to wake up the Westerns.

[tomtomsmom]

What EXACTLY is Islamic law??

[Muezzin]

Amirsaab, so what are you saying? You do wanna see Islamic Law in the West? Well that should be enough to wake up the Westerns.

Straw man argument.

Also, I'm debating which Western you think he's waking up - 'Unforgiven' or a 'Fist Full of Dollars'?

[PCJS]

I am not sure who you refer to as "Unforgiven" and who you refer to as "Fist Full of Dollars".

But I think for those Westerns who really care about democracy, freedom of religion and equal rights for all need to wake up and make sure that anything that goes against all this, should be stopped from expanding and even kept out of the West.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Learn history then run your mouth. Dont act like an ignorant.

[PCJS]

Tayyaba, learn from what part of History?

[MTAFFI]

:sl:

America was founded by immigrants - if there were no immigration, the US of A wouldn't exist.



FYI, sharia law is the best form of democracy, also there is freedom of religion. I suggest you research, in addition to history, sharia law in depth, before you go shooting your mouth off.

yeah like the laws of Iran, that is how I want to live, with a bunch of radical Imams running my country...lol... I think Islamic Law is right for some places and wrong for others. Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan (not as strict as the Taliban imposed), etc. Those countries could deal with Islamic law, however imposing a "religious" law on those who do not share your religion would be a form of tyranny, and no doubt would be harshly critized and revolted against in the West. Just as many of the Muslims in the Mid East revolt against Democracy (the type that is being pushed upon them). It isnt right to impose a type of government on people, much less one based on religious beliefs. If you cant tell, I can not stand Sharia Law.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Wow now i have to tell you what part? Jee what are we talking about here, Dolphins? Anways im out of this thread, can't talk to people who don't even remember what they said.

Peace :X

[MTAFFI]

What EXACTLY is Islamic law??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

this is a wikipedia source, i know, but i think it sums it up pretty well

[tomtomsmom]

I am not sure who you refer to as "Unforgiven" and who you refer to as "Fist Full of Dollars".

But I think for those Westerns who really care about democracy, freedom of religion and equal rights for all need to wake up and make sure that anything that goes against all this, should be stopped from expanding and even kept out of the West.

I am sorry but equal rights for all doesn't exists in the USA

[MTAFFI]

I am sorry but equal rights for all doesn't exists in the USA

how exactly do you figure that?

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

Ah MTAFFI, I was refering to proper Sharia law, not Iranian or any other hybrid version. True Sharia law implemented properly, is the best form of democracy. I'd recommend some background reading, especially in regards to the era of the first caliphate and at the time of Muhammad [saw/pbuh].

however imposing a "religious" law on those who do not share your religion would be a form of tyranny, and no doubt would be harshly critized and revolted against in the West

The revolt would only occur if the people didn't want it. At the moment, nobody is forcing any members of the west to implement sharia law.

To be honest though, this would be best discussed in it's own thread so as to keep this one on topic.

Speaking of which, no I don't hate americans - I don't hate anyone really, since I tend to forgive relatively quickly. I do dislike certain of the american foreign policies however.

[tomtomsmom]

how exactly do you figure that?

Equal rights suggests that EVERY person has the same rights which isn't the case. I can marry a man no problem but if I wanted to marry a woman I don't have that right. And then there is the UNCF and BET. Yet we don't have the right to have a UCCF or CET. How is that equal??

[Muezzin]

I am not sure who you refer to as "Unforgiven" and who you refer to as "Fist Full of Dollars".

They are Westerns. :D

But I think for those Westerns

You mean 'Westerners', not Westerns, which are films and books about the Wild West.

who really care about democracy, freedom of religion and equal rights for all need to wake up and make sure that anything that goes against all this, should be stopped from expanding and even kept out of the West.

Except Sharia law, which you seem to be referring to, has not expanded into the West and shows no sign of doing so, aside from a bunch of people mouthing off.

The reason many Muslims say they would prefer Sharia to 'Western' laws, or any man-made law for that matter, is because they believe Sharia is superior. It's like asking a janitor if he'd prefer a higher paying job; he'd probably say yes, but that doesn't mean he'd do his current job badly. But realistically, I don't think Sharia will spread into the West any time soon, partly because a lot of Muslim countries don't even implement it properly.

[MTAFFI]

:sl:

Ah MTAFFI, I was refering to proper Sharia law, not Iranian or any other hybrid version. True Sharia law implemented properly, is the best form of democracy. I'd recommend some background reading, especially in regards to the era of the first caliphate and at the time of Muhammad [saw/pbuh].


The revolt would only occur if the people didn't want it. At the moment, nobody is forcing any members of the west to implement sharia law.

To be honest though, this would be best discussed in it's own thread so as to keep this one on topic.

Speaking of which, no I don't hate americans - I don't hate anyone really, since I tend to forgive relatively quickly. I do dislike certain of the american foreign policies however.

I agree this would be a good thread, if you want you can post it, if not i will do it later. Also to your point about it not being forced on the west, I agree and I hope it stays that way.

[Keltoi]

I agree this would be a good thread, if you want you can post it, if not i will do it later. Also to your point about it not being forced on the west, I agree and I hope it stays that way.

In order for a new system of government to take shape, at least in the U.S, it would have to come from elected representatives. Unless the non-Muslim population in the U.S. drops dead and the Muslim population skyrockets, that will never happen here.

[Cognescenti]

Equal rights suggests that EVERY person has the same rights which isn't the case. I can marry a man no problem but if I wanted to marry a woman I don't have that right. And then there is the UNCF and BET. Yet we don't have the right to have a UCCF or CET. How is that equal??

Huh? Having a Bill of Rights does not mean that government can make no laws. It only means the laws cannot arbitrarily abridge the rights laid ount in the the Bill of Rights.

In your example, every man has an equal right to marry a woman (provided he is not already married and has the mental capacity to enter into a contract of marriage). Ditto for the women...to men, of course. There are any number of laws which infringe on individual freedoms but are still constituional because they meet the "compelling government interest" test. If I argue, for eg., that I should be free to start buildings on fire because it looks cool..how far do you think that is going to get?

I am confused, though, if you want to marry a woman and a man..in addition to being rather awkward, wouldn't that be bigamy?

Lastly, what is the "C" in UCCF?

[MTAFFI]

Equal rights suggests that EVERY person has the same rights which isn't the case. I can marry a man no problem but if I wanted to marry a woman I don't have that right. And then there is the UNCF and BET. Yet we don't have the right to have a UCCF or CET. How is that equal??

as far as marrying a woman, that doesnt have anything to do with being equal, that has to do with ethics and moral guidelines in life. As far as the BET, etc. no that isnt equal and gives an unfair right to people just because they are a minority, and I agree with you on that. I thought you were refering to minorities not having equal rights when it seems they are the ones who get all of the exceptions

[PCJS]

Muezzin,

I don't understand. If Islamic Laws are so superior, why is it that Islamic people can't enjoy these laws in Islamic countries and why do they come to the West where there aren't any Islamic laws?

Tayyaba,

I was trying to bring you to admit that you didn't like the West but you gave up so fast.

[Muezzin]

Muezzin,

I don't understand. If Islamic Laws are so superior, why is it that Islamic people can't enjoy these laws in Islamic countries and why do they come to the West where there aren't any Islamic laws?

There aren't any 'Islamic' countries unfortunately. Calling a country Islamic suggests that it adheres fully to Islamic values and correctly implements sharia law in its entirety. There are Muslim countries, which are imperfect (to say the least), which do not implement Sharia correctly, and are consequently corrupt. Certain people from those countries then move to the West to get a better standard of life and are satisfied.

Certain groups amongst the offspring of those immigrants then start whining and becoming violent for many reasons, including the fact that they do not live in a Sharia state, despite the fact a true Sharia state does not exist anywhere in the world. If Muslims cannot even implement Sharia properly in the Muslim world, how can it spread to the West?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Muezzin,

I don't understand. If Islamic Laws are so superior, why is it that Islamic people can't enjoy these laws in Islamic countries and why do they come to the West where there aren't any Islamic laws?

Tayyaba,

I was trying to bring you to admit that you didn't like the West but you gave up so fast.

How can u make me admit it when I dont hate the Americans personally? I hate how the so called super powers are establishing their foreign policy.

[PCJS]

How can u make me admit it when I dont hate the Americans personally? I hate how the so called super powers are establishing their foreign policy.

What is it that you don't like about foreign policy?

[PCJS]

Muezzin,

What does it say about democracy, religious freedom and equality of all in Sharia?

[Muezzin]

Muezzin,

What does it say about democracy, religious freedom and equality of all in Sharia?

I'll have to let another member answer that question. I am currently studying law, but not the Sharia type! :p :) But seriously, I will ask a member who is better versed in that area to answer your question in sufficient depth.

In the meantime, you could read through Ansar Al-Adl's posts in this thread

And this one.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

What is it that you don't like about foreign policy?

LOL, do i need to "write" it out or "show" u pictures? Seriously, what a silly question.

[PCJS]

Tayyaba sis,:)

I am sorry...

Seriously, I don't know what part of the foreign policy you object to...

[Fishman]

Tayyaba sis,:)

I am sorry...

Seriously, I don't know what part of the foreign policy you object to...

:sl:
I don't know about Tayyaba, but I sure don't like all the bombing, raping and torture...
:w:

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Its ok, my head hurts now :X Im off.

[PCJS]

:sl:
I don't know about Tayyaba, but I sure don't like all the bombing, raping and torture...
:w:

Fishman, I am sorry I didn't know that bombing, raping and torture was part of the foreign policy.

Could you provide reference?

Thank you very much :)

[Fishman]

Fishman, I am sorry I didn't know that bombing, raping and torture was part of the foreign policy.

Could you provide reference?

Thank you very much :)

:sl:
The raping isn't an official part of it, but bombing and torture certainly are. Look at Guantamano Bay, Abu Grahib, Iraq...
:w:

[Woodrow]

This thread has now gone on for 11 pages. It started with a simple honest question. But, we have let it end up as a battlefield. The thread will reman up as reference. However it is now closed for future posting.


:threadclo