Why do Christians love their enemies?

[Malaikah]

I don't understand why anyone would love their enemy. Can some Christians explain the wisdom behind this?

Isn't it asking too much of people to love their enemy, someone who they are naturally inclined to hate, for example, because they murdered their loved ones, are oppressive or something?

Wouldn't it just be enough to treat them with justice, with out having to love them?

I saw on the news a story about a Church with a big sign saying "Jesus loves Osama". What do you make of that? :?

[Skillganon]

I don't know about Osoma.
..but I do get "Jesus loves you" in some forums.
I reply: I know, he loves me for being a muslim.

I can't remember the passage, "even the sinner lends to each other" or something. Their is a parable. I can understand what it suppose to mean.
=============================
I take the christians (Bush and cohort) should remind themselve or be reminded by others before bombing people to death. I apologise for getting "Worldly Affairs" involved.

[Skillganon]

Here is the passage:
Luke 6:34-36 (New International Version)

34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful

[Keltoi]

The message of Jesus Christ is the answer why. His was a message of love and peace, even to those who wish to do you harm. Granted, this message is hard to accept by man, and has been ignored more often than not. However, this early message was fully accepted by early Christians, even when being fed to lions for Roman entertainment.

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[dougmusr]

I don't understand why anyone would love their enemy. Can some Christians explain the wisdom behind this?

Isn't it asking too much of people to love their enemy, someone who they are naturally inclined to hate, for example, because they murdered their loved ones, are oppressive or something?

Wouldn't it just be enough to treat them with justice, with out having to love them?

I saw on the news a story about a Church with a big sign saying "Jesus loves Osama". What do you make of that? :?

The reason we are to love our enemies is that our love is more likely to win them to God than our judgement.

1 John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

I know Jesus loves Osama. If Osama loved Jesus, his life would change dramatically.

[Malaikah]

However, this early message was fully accepted by early Christians, even when being fed to lions for Roman entertainment.

Can you elaborate? How did they express their love?

The reason we are to love our enemies is that our love is more likely to win them to God than our judgement.

Can you elaborate please? With an example? How does this effect justice and the way someone interacts with the person?

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Malaikah and thanks for starting this thread,

Try reading this,

http://www.islamicboard.com/prophet-...n-muslims.html

You have a very similar outlook in Islam.

Sorry I am so stuck for time now, but this topic is so important.

Blessings and peace,

Eric

[Malaikah]

Hi Eric, thanks for your input.

First, I think it would help if we properly understand the meaning of enemy. By enemy I don't mean someone who you dislike just because you do not get along with them, I understand it to mean people who are deserving of our enmity, such as criminals who show no remorse at all for their crimes (murders, rapists etc), and oppressors who also show no remorse. People who harm you (in smaller ways than major crimes) out of ignorance or just sheer stupidity do not necessary count as enemies.

I don't understand why, or how, anyone can love someone who oppressed them, and committed injustices against them, while they are still committing acts of evil and injustice. It is a natural part of humans to feel hatred towards such people.

However, this does not mean we should react with injustice also, but we should do what is in our power to establish justice against them, and if they ask for forgiveness sincerely, accept there apology.

The link you gave showed that many of the people who committed horrible crimes against Muslims, such as chewing on the liver of a Muslim who had died in war, where granted forgiveness when they became Muslims, since it showed that they had abandoned their previous acts of evil. Hence, they are no longer enemies, and should not be treated as such.

Just because one doesn't love their enemy, doesn't mean they won't treat them with justice, manners etc.

The link you gave, though it demonstrates that the Prophet was extremely forgiving of wrongs against himself, demonstrated great mercy and treated everyone, even his enemies with justice, it does not show that he loved his enemies while they were in the state of evil. I personally like to think that the Prophets approach is both practical and realistic, while also demonstrating very high moral standards.

Love itself is an emotion of the heart is very hard to control, and to ask someone to love a person, who for example, raped her, and continued to show no remorse for his action and would do it again, is very unrealistic...

Also, it would be nice if one of our Christian members could explain what they mean by love? It is almost as if I think you mean that a rape victim should go up to her oppressor and give him a hug and a present because she 'loves' him, even though he would harm her again if he could...

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Malaikah;

Isn't it asking too much of people to love their enemy, someone who they are naturally inclined to hate, for example, because they murdered their loved ones, are oppressive or something?

If I can just pose one further problem with this question,

Suppose you had two sons whom you loved, and one killed the other, what then.

Sorry have to dash.

Eric

[Malaikah]

Your question is too general... :)

I can't answer it. All I know is that the murderer would have to be brought to justice, depending on the situation of course.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

malaikah i heard from ahmed deedat that when Musa AS came he was waaaay too strict, ie he wouldnt take nothing from no-one lol, and that kept going on and on till the time of Eesa AS and Eesa AS was waaay too leniant, ie he would take anything from anyone, and this kept going on and on till Muhammad saws came and he would take what he can and fight back where needed for justice.

Hope that helps, it didnt help me at all :D

[Malaikah]

:sl:

^You lost me bro... lol

I just remembered a very good, relevant verse from that Quran... something like Allah swt is giving advice about how to deal with an 'enemy' (not literally an enemy but someone who you have a dispute with- enemy is a very strong word), treating them in a certain nice way and then you will become like close friends??

Does anyone know the verse?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ Musa AS was too strict
Eesa AS was too leniant (ie love your enemies)
Muhammad saws struck the balance...

[Idris]

The time of the Romans were very dangerous period and a Christian had to turn the other cheek or love their enemy to get by.

[Malaikah]

^ Musa AS was too strict
Eesa AS was too leniant (ie love your enemies)
Muhammad saws struck the balance...

^But you don't even know if he really said that...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^But you don't even know if he really said that...

ye das why i quoted ahmed deedat and said it probably dont help, its just something interesting lol.

lets not forget ahmed deedat is a scholar of comparative religion!

[glo]

Christians are supposed to love their enemies, because Jesus instructed us to do so.
I specifically say 'are supposed to', because I think it is near impossible for most human beings to fulfill Jesus instructions:

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."
(Luke 6:27-36)

Given the Christian concept that 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' (Romans 3:23) and that without God's grace none of us would ever be 'good enough' to come into God's presence, I don't think Jesus meant these instructions as laws which we have to follow to earn God's favour. Instead they are attitudes and ways of life we, as his followers, should aim for and aspire to.
I am sure, Christians do that with varying degrees of success ... and most of us probably fare pretty badly! :uuh:

But Jesus himself demonstrated that kind of love to us!
I would like ask the mods to allow the following statement (even if it may be perceived as offensive to some), as a clear Christian and Biblical perspective. I mean no offense to my Muslim brothers and sisters with reagrds to their prophet Eesa.

According to the Biblical account of Jesus' arrest and his death, he suffered at the hands of his enemies, just as he mentioned in the above verses:
He was beaten, he was stripped of his cloak, he was ridiculed, and in the end he died on the cross.
And his reaction to the abuse he suffered, mirrors the above verses very clearly:
The Bible says that Jesus could have called on legions of angels to rescue him, but he did not. Neither did he fight back or defend himself. And one of his last sentences he spoke on the cross was one of forgiveness for those who had put him there.

So, to put it simply, Christians (should) love their enemies, because they follow Jesus' example and instructions.

peace

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Malaikah,

I think glo has given a good explanation how Jesus practiced what he preached in loving your enemy.

You have brought up so many aspects of loving your enemy, maybe if we could start off by trying to define justice in all cases and all cultures.

I think if mankind knew all the facts and understood justice there would be peace on Earth, but we each have a different understanding, and we lack all the facts. If you put a hundred Muslims together there will be many interpretations of justice, likewise with all other world views. If you put a hundred Christians together they would have many ways of how to deal with injustice, so would a hundred Chinese, or American or Saudi citizens

If a hundred judges presided over the same complicated case that had some grey issues. After hearing all the evidence they each went away to make judgements independently of each other. Would they all come back with the same fair and just conclusion based on truth, or would there be differences of opinion because their judgement is based on a certain amount of ignorance, unlike God they do not know all the facts.

Then on a bigger scale did Iraq have a just cause to invade Kuwait? Which side if any was just in the Iraq and Iran conflict? Did America and Britain have a just cause to invade Iraq after 9 / 11? How do all the victims and their families find justice after these conflicts end? The victorious side in any conflict are unlikely to offer real justice to the working man and his family.

Supposing you are a Muslim mother with two Muslim sons Cain and Able, you love both of them equally. Your son Cain kills his brother Able because Able had committed adultery with his wife but he is sorry after.

Same scenario again when Cain kills his brother, but he says he is not sorry because Able deserved to die for committing adultery with his wife.

What if your son was murdered and there were no witnesses and the killer left no evidence for the police to follow up. You had your suspicions who was responsible but there was no proof. How do you live the rest of your life not knowing for sure, but still needing justice to be served?

I haven’t asked you all these question in the hope that you will answer each one. Rather I would like to try and understand how just do you think mankind can be with their limited knowledge in every case?

In the spirit of searching for a merciful God,

Eric

[Munda Pakistani]

I don't understand how someone can love you, and also love someone who tortures/kills/rapes you.

I also don't understand why you would condemn someone you love to eternal torture of an undescribable intensty.

[Umar001]

Some say that loving your enemy is against human nature, and some Christians will agree with you, yet God still asked us or rather demanded that we do that according to some.

Also, again, I think since the bible is open to interpretation it would be interesting to see what this 'love thy enemy' could mean. I think if one restricts himself to just a presumption of the character of the Jesus of the Gospels then one will see his statements in a particular way, but if one tries to cancel the presumption then maybe, he might be objective enough to see a different side.

Just for the record someone correct me if I am wrong but the words of forgiveness are a later addition?

34Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."[a] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

a. Luke 23:34 Some early manuscripts do not have this sentence.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...&context=verse

[brenton]

Al Habeshi, I don't have my critical edition of the Greek New Testament here, but it is possible it was added.

Great thread. Beautiful, wonderful, honest questions. Brilliant really.

Not to replace or repeat what was said by Xians so far, but I believe that love is the central reality of Christian Theology, the foundation, the pillars, and the blood of the body of Christ, the Church. We are loved first even though we made ourselves enemies of God. In loving God in Jesus we begin to restore some of that humanity as God has provided. And the ultimate expression of every aspect of Christian ethics is love.
-we love, and so we turn the other cheek when we are beaten
-we love, and so we discipline our children
-we love, and so we lock up a criminal
-we love, and so we eat with someone with whom we disagree
-we love, and so we forgive our rapist, or our child's murderer
-we love, and so we reach out to other people in love

It is not easy, sometimes impossible, but that is what we are called to above else.

[Umar001]

Al Habeshi, I don't have my critical edition of the Greek New Testament here, but it is possible it was added.

Great thread. Beautiful, wonderful, honest questions. Brilliant really.

Not to replace or repeat what was said by Xians so far, but I believe that love is the central reality of Christian Theology, the foundation, the pillars, and the blood of the body of Christ, the Church. We are loved first even though we made ourselves enemies of God. In loving God in Jesus we begin to restore some of that humanity as God has provided. And the ultimate expression of every aspect of Christian ethics is love.
-we love, and so we turn the other cheek when we are beaten
-we love, and so we discipline our children
-we love, and so we lock up a criminal
-we love, and so we eat with someone with whom we disagree
-we love, and so we forgive our rapist, or our child's murderer
-we love, and so we reach out to other people in love

It is not easy, sometimes impossible, but that is what we are called to above else.

Thank you,

There's going to be a fight between heaven and the other angels right? In the last days, is that going to involve turning the other cheek?

[brenton]

Thank you,

There's going to be a fight between heaven and the other angels right? In the last days, is that going to involve turning the other cheek?

That's not how I read Revelation or any apocalypse, no, but you'll have to ask other Christians who believe that what they think about it.

[Umar001]

That's not how I read Revelation or any apocalypse, no, but you'll have to ask other Christians who believe that what they think about it.

Okey dokes, so how do ya read it?

[JimMorrison]

I don't understand why anyone would love their enemy. Can some Christians explain the wisdom behind this?

Isn't it asking too much of people to love their enemy, someone who they are naturally inclined to hate, for example, because they murdered their loved ones, are oppressive or something?

Wouldn't it just be enough to treat them with justice, with out having to love them?

I saw on the news a story about a Church with a big sign saying "Jesus loves Osama". What do you make of that? :?

because the only thing can change the world is Love.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

because the only thing can change the world is Love.

I second that.

[JimMorrison]

When you said Islam its Justice, we dont need justice if all people are... simply in pure love..

[thirdwatch512]

God made the world, and He loves all of us.. because He made us! and in return God expects us to love everyone else too.

christianity is a very very extremely peaceful religion. yes, there are christian terrorists (growing especially in indonesia) but they don't follow the Bible correctly..

فَمَعَ أَنَّنَا نَعِيشُ فِي الْجَسَدِ، فَإِنَّنَا لاَ نُحَارِبُ وَفْقاً لِلْجَسَدِ.

3For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. - 2 corinthians 10:3

everyone should love everyone. and if we all did, we wouldn't have any enemies!

i ask those who think christianity is stupid for saying to love your enemies this - would you rather love someone, or hate them?

when we say love your enemies, we're not saying support their horrid actions that they might do.. we're just saying forgive them, and not to hate them. they are misguided and we should try and understand why they are how they are and to help them, not to kill them.

[Malaikah]

When you said Islam its Justice, we dont need justice if all people are... simply in pure love..

That is very not true, especially if it means people will be acting out of emotions rather than justice.

because the only thing can change the world is Love.

I personally do not think so... love it self is just an emotion, and if not used in the proper way can make even more problems, if you want to change the world, you will need a lot more than that.

[Malaikah]

When we say love your enemies, we're not saying support their horrid actions that they might do.. we're just saying forgive them, and not to hate them. they are misguided and we should try and understand why they are how they are and to help them, not to kill them.

But the point I am trying to make is that forgiving someone does mean loving them, you can forgive someone who you do not like, you don't need to love the people who are truly against you.

And just because you hate someone for a legitimate reason (such as they committed a major crime against you and are not remorseful at all), that doesn't mean you have to treat them unjustly just because you hate them!

In fact the concept you mentioned there is very similar to how it is in Islam, but the reality not everyone can be helped, not everyone will listen, especially not those who are not ignorant and are just arrogant and continue in their crime over and over again!

And I ask again, what do Christians mean by love? How do you define it, officially?

[Keltoi]

But the point I am trying to make is that forgiving someone does mean loving them, you can forgive someone who you do not like, you don't need to love the people who are truly against you.

And just because you hate someone for a legitimate reason (such as they committed a major crime against you and are not remorseful at all), that doesn't mean you have to treat them unjustly just because you hate them!

In fact the concept you mentioned there is very similar to how it is in Islam, but the reality not everyone can be helped, not everyone will listen, especially not those who are not ignorant and are just arrogant and continue in their crime over and over again!

And I ask again, what do Christians mean by love? How do you define it, officially?

Sort of tricky to define love. However, if one is referring to pure love, then I think of a selfless emotion. Treating others as you would have yourself be treated.

[thirdwatch512]

malaikah - i think we all know what the Bible means by love. there's no reason for me to define it.

the Bible says to love everyone. and we should.. because we are ALL Gods children.

and sometimes people do deserve to get punished - but in a loving way. not in a way of hate. we should punish people out of love, not out of hate.

[Malaikah]

thirdwatch512,

Well, I do not know. Love itself is of different types. I would love my parents the way I love my friends, or the way I would love my husband, for example.

So what does it mean to love ones enemy?

People should be punished for justice, and for the better of society. Love and hate shouldn't have much to do with it (not in a court case anyway).

[glo]

thirdwatch512,

Well, I do not know. Love itself is of different types. I would love my parents the way I love my friends, or the way I would love my husband, for example.

So what does it mean to love ones enemy?

People should be punished for justice, and for the better of society. Love and hate shouldn't have much to do with it (not in a court case anyway).

Greetings, Malaikah

Because it is so late at night, allow me to copy and paste an article on love, according to the Biblical sense. I hope it will answer your question:

Question: "What is agape love?"

Answer: The Greek word "agape" is often translated "love" in the New Testament. How is "agape love" different from other types of love? The essence of agape love is self-sacrifice. Unlike our English word “love,” agape is not used in the Bible to refer to romantic or sexual love. Nor does it refer to close friendship or brotherly love, for which philia is used. Nor does agape mean charity, a term which the King James translators carried over from the Latin. Agape love is unique and is distinguished by its nature and character.

Agape is love which is of and from God, whose very nature is love itself. The Apostle John affirms this in 1 John 4:18: “God is love.” God does not merely love; He is love itself. Everything God does flows from His love. But it is important to remember that God’s love is not a sappy, sentimental love such as we often hear portrayed. God loves because that is His nature and the expression of His being. He loves the unlovable and the unlovely (us!), not because we deserve to be loved, but because it is His nature to do so, and He must be true to His nature and character. God’s love is displayed most clearly at the Cross, where Christ died for the unworthy creatures who were “dead in trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1), not because we did anything to deserve it, “but God commends His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). The object of agape love never does anything to merit His love. We are the undeserving recipients upon whom He lavishes that love. His love was demonstrated when He sent His Son into the world to “seek and save that which was lost” (Luke 19:10), and to provide eternal life to those He sought and saved. He paid the ultimate sacrifice for those He loves.


In the same way, we are to love others sacrificially. Jesus gave the parable of the Good Samaritan as an example of sacrifice for the sake of others, even for those who may care nothing at all for us, or even hate us, as the Jews did the Samaritans. Sacrificial love is not based on a feeling, but a determined act of the will, a joyful resolve to put the welfare of others above our own. But this type of love does not come naturally to humans. Because of our fallen nature, we are incapable of producing such a love. If we are to love as God loves, that love – that agape – can only come from its true Source. This is the love which “has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit given to us” when we became His children (Romans 5:5). Because that love is now in our hearts, we can obey Jesus who said, “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another” (John 13:34). This new commandment involves loving one another as He loved us – sacrificially – even to the point of death. But again, it is clear that only God can generate within us the kind of self-sacrificing love which is the proof that we are His children. “By this we have known the love of God, because He laid down His life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers” (1 John 3:16). Because of God’s love toward us, we are now able to love one another.

Peace

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;


[QUOTE=thirdwatch512;646198]...... sometimes people do deserve to get punished - but in a loving way. ......QUOTE]


how can we punish a child killer or a rapist in a loving way ?:confused:

[Skillganon]

how can we punish a child killer or a rapist in a loving way ?:confused:

This is suppose to be a witty remark:

Send flowers to his grave, and maybe a goodbye card if one is feeling charitable.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

This is suppose to be a witty remark:

Send flowers to his grave, and maybe a goodbye card if one is feeling charitable.

u mean before or after ? :rolleyes:

[JimMorrison]

malaikah - i think we all know what the Bible means by love. there's no reason for me to define it.

the Bible says to love everyone. and we should.. because we are ALL Gods children.

and sometimes people do deserve to get punished - but in a loving way. not in a way of hate. we should punish people out of love, not out of hate.

Yeah!

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Malaikah;

People should be punished for justice, and for the better of society.

Are people in the position to judge others and punish them in the same way that God would?

Love and hate shouldn't have much to do with it (not in a court case anyway).

It is said that God loves each and every one of us despite all our sins. If God can love us in this way, should we also strive to love and forgive others in the same way that God loves us?

In the spirit of searching for God's love and mercy,

Eric

[Malaikah]

Are people in the position to judge others and punish them in the same way that God would?

No- we can hardly create anything equivalent to the fire of hell. But we have to try. That is what courts and laws are for, for justice.

It is said that God loves each and every one of us despite all our sins. If God can love us in this way, should we also strive to love and forgive others in the same way that God loves us?

But that isn't what Muslims believe. God doesn't love every single one of us- He only loves who believe in Him and do good deeds. He loves us because we earn it.

Us being His creation isn't enough to qualify us to be loved by Him, we have to earn His love... Just being a creation isn't enough, God isn't obliged to love everything He creates...

[Keltoi]

No- we can hardly create anything equivalent to the fire of hell. But we have to try. That is what courts and laws are for, for justice.



But that isn't what Muslims believe. God doesn't love every single one of us- He only loves who believe in Him and do good deeds. He loves us because we earn it.

Us being His creation isn't enough to qualify us to be loved by Him, we have to earn His love... Just being a creation isn't enough, God isn't obliged to love everything He creates...

Just a difference between Christianity and Islam, we believe that God does indeed love all of his creations.

[Malaikah]

I realised... does he love the devil too?:?

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

I realised... does he love the devil too?:?

---hahaha :D


forget about devil , if really Christians believe God loves all , then hell is created for whom ? Only devil will live there or some/many human being , too ?



1Cor.6


[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,



[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.




James

Jas.4

[4] Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Malaikah;

... does he love the devil too?:?

Today if the Devil truly repented for all that he has done, would God forgive him?

It is in our nature to sin against God, it seems it is in the devils nature to sin against God by disobeying him.

God loves each and every one of us despite our sins.

If God did not love the devil, would he hate the devil, or would he hate what the devil does?

In the spirit of searching for God's love

Eric

[Woodrow]

While this thread is peaceful and shows some interesting comparisons, this is an issue that could easily lead to gross misconceptions in either direction, so it is best to close it while it is peaceful.

May all threads be able to end on a peaceful note.