I need proof from The Noble Quran that music is haraam.

[hassaanejaz]

:sl: I repeatedly debated with maternal grandfather about what I read in my earlier thread about music and he says that the Internet is flooded with catholics and he needs further proof from The Noble Quran. As this issue holds a lot of meaning to me, I need to clear my doughts as this is very important.
:sl:

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

is the saying of the noble prophet Muhammad saws not good enough for you?

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[hassaanejaz]

Salaam,
Actually many non-muslims are flooding the internet with wrong info and it is not correct to believe any quotations without proof!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

what about the sahih hadith which is agreed upon by 'ijmaa? all four madhabs are in agreement that wind and string instruments are haram. Also anything giving a bad feeling is haram.

is that not enough?

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

Surah Luqman verse 6 was revealed for the purpose of all forms of idle entertainment which leads to corruption, this is music aswell according to mufti menki.

if that helps at all.

[shible]

We all know that Prophet Muhammad(saw) has given us directions on each and every aspects.

So give those proofs and then let the Questioner decide his path. Instead don't give a rough suggestion. In case if he needs to help his friend then he needs proof.

without which nothin is believed in this current era.

So Bro's and sis who knew that Music is haraam please provide the relevant proof in terms of Hadith's or quranic versus

Assalamu alaikkum(warah)

[hassaanejaz]

We all know that Prophet Muhammad(saw) has given us directions on each and every aspects.

So give those proofs and then let the Questioner decide his path. Instead don't give a rough suggestion. In case if he needs to help his friend then he needs proof.

without which nothin is believed in this current era.

So Bro's and sis who knew that Music is haraam please provide the relevant proof in terms of Hadith's or quranic versus

Assalamu alaikkum(warah)

:sl: :D True, I agree.

[hassaanejaz]

http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/ Please go to Surah Luqman=Surah 31 and use Eng- Yusuf ali. How do we know that music is idle tales/talks

[IbnAbdulHakim]

http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/ Please go to Surah Luqman=Surah 31 and use Eng- Yusuf ali. How do we know that music is idle tales/talks

we take the interpretation of the companions of the prophets when it comes to the verses, if the companions interpret it to be talking about music, then thats what we take it as. We understand the quran as the companions understood it :)

radhiallahu ta'ala anhum

[hassaanejaz]

I hope that will help me. Still researching......

[Muhammad]

:sl:

You will find the evidence from the Qur'an as well as explanations of them in this thread Insha'Allaah:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...an-sunnah.html

There are quite a few other topics discussing this issue aswell.

[shible]

:sl:

Hi brother's and sisters

here R the links to know the truth

A view abt Music in Islam

One more view


One More VUe 4 Music


:sl:

[hassaanejaz]

:sl:

:sl:

Hi brother's and sisters

here R the links to know the truth

A view abt Music in Islam

One more view


One More VUe 4 Music


:sl:

:sl: Thank you heaps, I have got my answer!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ do you mind sharing the answer bro?

:salamext:

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:sl:

:sl: Thank you heaps, I have got my answer!

:salamext:

Excuse me if i'm wrong, but it seems like you want to believe that music is halal. Think carefully and examine the evidence. The vast majority of scholars are agreed upon that music is haram. SO don't take the opinion of just one scholar.

Concerning the ayah:

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40).

And ibn 'Abbas (ra) was amongst the most knowledgeable of the companions, and no scholar today can debate with his understanding of the Qur'an.

Read here for more info:
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=5000&ln=eng&txt

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ sis i think he thinks that music is haram and wants to prove it to his uncle.

:salamext:

[------]

:sl:

One of the places in the Qur’an in which music and singing is forbidden is the following;

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead men from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, the Verses of the Qur’an) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment.”
[Qur’an, Surah 31, Verse 6]

In this verse, the term ‘lahwal-hadees’ (Idle talks) is taken to mean music and singing.

The great Companion Hazrat Abdullah ibn Mas’ud (R.A) states:
“By Allah its meaning is music.”
(Sunan Al-Bayhaqi, 1/223 & authenticated by Al-Hakim in his Mustadrak, 2/411)

Hazrat Ibn Abbas (R.A), another Companion says;
“The meaning of the word is music, singing and the like.”
(Sunan al-Bayhaqi, 1/221 & Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba, 132/5)

Hasan al-Basri (R.A) said:
“This verse was revealed in relation to singing and musical instruments.”
(Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 3/442)

So, the above verse of the Qur’an, along with the statements regarding its meaning is clear in the prohibition of music.

:w:

[brenton]

This is a really interesting discussion for two reasons:
1. The evidence that Music is Halaal is good but there is some doubt.
2. It shows me a bit about how Muslims think through difficult issues and read the Qur'an.

Thank you.

I'm curious why recitations are musical since music is generally forbidden. And why do places like Iran and Afghanistan and Malaysia and Turkey have such a rich musical history?

[Muhammad]

Hello brenton,

I'm curious why recitations are musical since music is generally forbidden.

One of the reasons why music is considered to be forbidden in Islam is because it occupies people's attention and distracts them from Allah's worship and remembrance and also invites to His disobedience. So in this regard, the Qur'an is very different to music in that it is actually the Words of Allaah, the Exalted, Himself, and therefore it is the best of speech and the best of things with which to occupy one's time.

Muslims have been ordered to recite the Qur'an and beautify it with one's voice, as Allaah says:

...and recite the Qur'ân (aloud) in a slow, (pleasant tone and) style. 73:4


And the recitation of the Qur'an has its own rules and it does not involve any instruments. An important point to note is that:

It is not permissible for the believer to recite Qur’aan with melodies like those of songs or in the manner of singers. He has to recite it as it was recited by our righteous predecessors, the companions of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and those who followed them in truth. So it should be recited with the proper intonation (tarteel), in a solemn and humble manner, so that it may have an effect on the hearts of those who hear it and on the heart of the reciter himself.

Reading it in the manner or way of singers is not permitted.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azzez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 9, p. 290

I hope it is clear, therefore, that there is a great difference between music and the Qur'an.

Thank you for your question.

[tomtomsmom]

I am not sure that I understand. Would "idle talk" just be singing? What if it is just music (like classical) with no words?

[Umm Yoosuf]

But then musical Instruments are not allowed in Islam only the "daff" which women beat at the time of weddings.


And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e.music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, the Verses of the Qur'ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Luqman 31:6)

Some scholars have explained the Lahw ( idle speech ) mentioned here to be singing.

From Aboo Maalik al-Ash'aree who said that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhe was salaam said :

" There will certainly come from my nation a people who will make permissable the private parts, silk garments ( for men ), intoxicants, and musical instruments." [366]

So it is prohibited that one might listen to or become contented with the sound of musical instruments and drums. Exempted from this prohibition are the Duff drums. For indeed, they are free of this restriction; but nonetheless we are responsible for our time as the Prophet sallallahu alayhe was salaam said :

" The two feet of the servant will continue to remain until he is questioned concerning four ( affiars ) : His age and how he spent it, his knowledge and whether he implemented it, his youth and how he benefited from it, and his body, and how it was maintained."

Moreover, in the affair of singing, it is not possible for there to exist a love for it, which can also be coupled with a love for Allah that is acceptable, but rather it is from the diseases of the hearts.


Umm 'Abdillah Al-Waadi'iyyah
Naseehati Lin-Nisaa'
My Advice to the Women
pgs 306-307

[brenton]

Thank you for the information.
It makes me sad that music is haraam. You would say that Allah knows best, and you are right. I am glad that Islam did not conquer all of Europe & Africa and South Asia; I believe music is one of God's greatest gifts.
But I appreciate the thread. It taught me a lot about how Muslims read Qur'an.

[snakelegs]

And why do places like Iran and Afghanistan and Malaysia and Turkey have such a rich musical history?

beacause, alhamdulillah! not all muslims regard music as haram. some of the world's greatest musicians have been and are muslims. :giggling:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

beacause, alhamdulillah! not all muslims regard music as haram. some of the world's greatest musicians have been and are muslims. :giggling:

no only the greatest muslims of all time regard music as haram

abu hanifa
imam malik
imam ahmad
imam shafi'i

[Um_ahmad]

Music Is Haram?????i Live In Dearborn Michigan. The Largest Arab Muslim Community In The Usa, I Don't Know Anyone Including Religious People That Do Not Listen To Music.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

^ sis i think he thinks that music is haram and wants to prove it to his uncle.

:salamext:

:wasalamex

Have you read the links that were provided to him by shible? The first two say that music is halal. So i'm assuming that 'i've got my answer!' means he agrees with it? Allahu A'lam. I apologise if I misunderstood.

[snakelegs]

at the risk of getting this thread closed, one of the things that bothers me is that the impression is often given here that music is haram, period (or as you brits say, full stop), when in fact there is not uniformity of opinion among scholars, as the link shows.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503545728

i'll go hide again now. :hiding:

[hassaanejaz]

Ok, I know lots of debate is heating up. Met Grampa again, he took out all the English and Urdu Qur'an translations that he had. He said it very cleverly,"It all goes like a game of chinese whispers". For eg- If I tell my friend that ,"Chintu, you are quite foolish". So, if I am famous in one field or the other, it will spread that,"Hassaan told Chintu that he's foolish" or "Hassaan told Chintu that he is the foolishest in the neighbourhood". So basicallu, the point he was trying to emphasize on was, that the quotes made by Ibn Masood and the other sahabis were recorded 300 years later and misinterpretation is very likely to occur. That goes the same with brackets in the english translation of The Qur'an. Basically, he said that the Saudi people have made misinterpretations and we have to go by the Qur'an.And if Ibn Masood wanted to express a thing like that and was a sahabi, why did he need to swear, and that too thrice. Also, Surah 31, Verse 6 according to him means mockery of the verses of The Qur'an in a funny manner. For eg-(I have no bad intentions, this is just an example) If we say "La ilaha Illallah" in a funny manner and in a rhythmic tune, hell is likely to come to us.
Assalamualaikum!

[hassaanejaz]

Astonished at what I said, 3 hours and no reply?!?!?

[brenton]

Astonished at what I said, 3 hours and no reply?!?!?

I have no idea what you meant.
It still seems to me a matter open for interpretation, but I am no expert.

[Malaikah]

at the risk of getting this thread closed, one of the things that bothers me is that the impression is often given here that music is haram, period (or as you brits say, full stop), when in fact there is not uniformity of opinion among scholars, as the link shows.

The vast majority of the scholars, including the ones who are most respected, all considered music to be haram, and there is very strong evidence to suggest that it is haram.

Only a tiny minority said it was ok, and their position is very weak indeed.

[hassaanejaz]

Ok, I know lots of debate is heating up. Met Grampa again, he took out all the English and Urdu Qur'an translations that he had. He said it very cleverly,"It all goes like a game of chinese whispers". For eg- If I tell my friend that ,"Chintu, you are quite foolish". So, if I am famous in one field or the other, it will spread that,"Hassaan told Chintu that he's foolish" or "Hassaan told Chintu that he is the foolishest in the neighbourhood". So basicallu, the point he was trying to emphasize on was, that the quotes made by Ibn Masood and the other sahabis were recorded 300 years later and misinterpretation is very likely to occur. That goes the same with brackets in the english translation of The Qur'an. Basically, he said that the Saudi people have made misinterpretations and we have to go by the Qur'an.And if Ibn Masood wanted to express a thing like that and was a sahabi, why did he need to swear, and that too thrice. Also, Surah 31, Verse 6 according to him means mockery of the verses of The Qur'an in a funny manner. For eg-(I have no bad intentions, this is just an example) If we say "La ilaha Illallah" in a funny manner and in a rhythmic tune, hell is likely to come to us.
Assalamualaikum!

Don't you have nothing to say to this.
Anyways, the quote by Ibn Masood is interpreted by different people in a different manner. For eg-"I swear on Allaah that it refers to ghinaa(singing) which he did three times" or " I say in the name of Allaah that it refers to singing"!

[Manu]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakaathu

i have to say that many brothers have given their opinion that music is haram and i also think it is bad
.Think of it this way,what does music mean to u and how much it affects u.That is what does listening to music give u.People tend to say that music gives them peace in their mind.But is this actually true and correct.When u r listening to music or watching tv for pleasure at the same time a brother/sister is starving,another brother/sister is being killed and the list goes on.So dear brothers/sisters do want the 'pleasure' of listing to music when ur brothers/sisters r in difficulty.The time that u waste in listening to music or any other sort of entertainment u could use to say dua's for their and our well being in this world and after.Also ask the following question to ur self before going to bed everyday'WHAT HAVE I DONE TODAY THAT COULD GET ME CLOSER TO PARADISE?'.
How many of us can be certain that we have earned enough blessings from Allah(swt) so that we could enter paradise? Muhammed(saw) and sahabi's used to pray and ask Allah(swt) forgiveness even though they have been promised paradise.So i request dear brothers/sisters to think twice before doing anything that would make ur forget Allah(swt).
Music falls in to this category.People become addicted to it after some time and islam clearly says that u must avoid such addiction causing things which make us forget Allah(swt) and fall in to the wrong path.
What i mean is that u become addicted to it so much that when ever u have free time u tend to listen to music.This free time could have been used for earning Allah(swt) blessings.Thus music makes u forget Allah(swt) and we know what the result would be if we forget him.
There r also quran and hadith examples that our brothers have sited in the past threads regarding music.
But if u r not still not convinced that music is not good for u consider the present day situation of music.Music is every where on tv,radio,net,phone and its increasing.
Many brothers/sisters spend a lot of their money for music when it could have been used for helping people who r in real need of it and thus earn Allah(swt) blessings.The video's of
certain music r also demoralising and kufr.Even if u listen only to the audio's of such music it is still leading to its promotion which is wrong.
I would like to relate a story which i have from my friends.I think this happened before muhammed(saw) was proclaimed a prophet.During the time little muhammed(saw) was living with his uncle he had a chance to hear some music from some people who had come to perform near his place.So he asked his uncle's permission and went to see the show.But Allah(swt) prevented him from hearing the music as he was made to fall asleep even before it started.
Allah(swt) knew about the effect that music could have over a person thus he made muhammed(saw) to fall asleep.
If there is any mistake in the above story please point it out and may Allah(swt) forgive me for it.i hope u understand the influence that music could have on a person from the above story.

Some brothers/sisters have asked me, what about music that is about glorifying Allah(swt),muhammed(saw).I ask them this question in return,Has muhammed(saw) and sahabha's taught us that in order to remember Allah(swt) and the prophet we should use their names in songs or any other such methods. The answer is clearly NO.
In order to show our love for Allah(swt),prophet muhammed(saw) and the sahabi's we should follow their sunnat and their teachings and use it in daily in our lifes rather than sing songs about them.There r also dikkr's and dua's.
I think i have been able to clear atleast some of your doubts.

PRAY FOR ALL

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Exactly. Thats the point. If that's not enough, then I don't know what is.

:sl:

[Manu]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakaathu

No offence but u have to understand that by taking the Quran alone is not for us to live by it.We have to use the hadiths,sunnat from muhammed(saw) and sahabha's.So if ur looking for proof u will have to look through all these.We have to also understand that before anything is made haram in islam which is not mentioned in the Quran,hadith or the sunnat the concerned immams get together and discuss the nature of the problem,its present and future effècts(follwing strictly the islamic ways) they make a proper decision.
Also surat luqman as sited by our brother is a very good answer to ur question.
Idle mean wastage of time here wiithout getting any benefit in this life or the after.

PRAY FOR ALL

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...an-sunnah.html

[hassaanejaz]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakaathu

i have to say that many brothers have given their opinion that music is haram and i also think it is bad
.Think of it this way,what does music mean to u and how much it affects u.That is what does listening to music give u.People tend to say that music gives them peace in their mind.But is this actually true and correct.When u r listening to music or watching tv for pleasure at the same time a brother/sister is starving,another brother/sister is being killed and the list goes on.So dear brothers/sisters do want the 'pleasure' of listing to music when ur brothers/sisters r in difficulty.The time that u waste in listening to music or any other sort of entertainment u could use to say dua's for their and our well being in this world and after.Also ask the following question to ur self before going to bed everyday'WHAT HAVE I DONE TODAY THAT COULD GET ME CLOSER TO PARADISE?'.
How many of us can be certain that we have earned enough blessings from Allah(swt) so that we could enter paradise? Muhammed(saw) and sahabi's used to pray and ask Allah(swt) forgiveness even though they have been promised paradise.So i request dear brothers/sisters to think twice before doing anything that would make ur forget Allah(swt).
Music falls in to this category.People become addicted to it after some time and islam clearly says that u must avoid such addiction causing things which make us forget Allah(swt) and fall in to the wrong path.
What i mean is that u become addicted to it so much that when ever u have free time u tend to listen to music.This free time could have been used for earning Allah(swt) blessings.Thus music makes u forget Allah(swt) and we know what the result would be if we forget him.
There r also quran and hadith examples that our brothers have sited in the past threads regarding music.
But if u r not still not convinced that music is not good for u consider the present day situation of music.Music is every where on tv,radio,net,phone and its increasing.
Many brothers/sisters spend a lot of their money for music when it could have been used for helping people who r in real need of it and thus earn Allah(swt) blessings.The video's of
certain music r also demoralising and kufr.Even if u listen only to the audio's of such music it is still leading to its promotion which is wrong.
I would like to relate a story which i have from my friends.I think this happened before muhammed(saw) was proclaimed a prophet.During the time little muhammed(saw) was living with his uncle he had a chance to hear some music from some people who had come to perform near his place.So he asked his uncle's permission and went to see the show.But Allah(swt) prevented him from hearing the music as he was made to fall asleep even before it started.
Allah(swt) knew about the effect that music could have over a person thus he made muhammed(saw) to fall asleep.
If there is any mistake in the above story please point it out and may Allah(swt) forgive me for it.i hope u understand the influence that music could have on a person from the above story.

Some brothers/sisters have asked me, what about music that is about glorifying Allah(swt),muhammed(saw).I ask them this question in return,Has muhammed(saw) and sahabha's taught us that in order to remember Allah(swt) and the prophet we should use their names in songs or any other such methods. The answer is clearly NO.
In order to show our love for Allah(swt),prophet muhammed(saw) and the sahabi's we should follow their sunnat and their teachings and use it in daily in our lifes rather than sing songs about them.There r also dikkr's and dua's.
I think i have been able to clear atleast some of your doubts.

PRAY FOR ALL

You are talking like a fanatic. Death can come to anyone and this does not stop us from enjoying life. Also, none of u brothers or sister's answers are responding to my earlier post.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:salamext:

Has your grandfather studied the science of fiqh, or usool al-hadith?

[Muhammad]

:sl: Hassaanejaz,

So basically, the point he was trying to emphasize on was, that the quotes made by Ibn Masood and the other sahabis were recorded 300 years later and misinterpretation is very likely to occur.

Then the problem here is not about whether or not music is allowed; it is about the validity of the ahadeeth, and this is going back to a myth that the ahadeeth were compiled 200 or so years after the death of Prophet Muhammad :arabic5: , which has already been addressed in this post:

http://www.islamicboard.com/563051-post268.html

That goes the same with brackets in the english translation of The Qur'an. Basically, he said that the Saudi people have made misinterpretations and we have to go by the Qur'an.

The brackets in the English translation of the Qur'an can be due to a number of reasons - sometimes they simply clarify the translation and other times it is more of an explanation taken from tafseer. They are not personal interpretations of the author - if we take the Muhsin Khan translation for example, it brings in content from Tafseer Ibn Katheer and other scholars as well as hadeeth that are clearly referenced to give the reader more of an insight into what certain verses mean. "Going by the Qur'an" means that we understand it using the correct methodology; a person who has not studied the science of the Qur'an is in no position to derive their own rulings and interpretations from it.

And if Ibn Masood wanted to express a thing like that and was a sahabi, why did he need to swear, and that too thrice.

Swearing means taking an oath by something; it does not mean profane language in this context. From the thread provided by brother Al Madani, it says:

The first category defines the term {lahwal hadeeth}: (a) singing and listening to songs, (b) the purchasing of professional male or female singers and (c) the purchase of instruments of amusement; namely, the drum (tabl). The elements of this category revolve around reference to the blameworthy usage of instruments of idle amusement, in short, music and song. This view was held by a number of companions such as Ibn Masood, Jaabir and Ibn Abbaas. It is related that the former was questioned regarding the meaning of the verse under discussion to which he replied, "I swear by the One other than Whom there is no god that it refers to singing [ghinaa]"; he repeated it three times to emphasize his position(*36). It is related that Ibn Abbaas said it referred to "singing and the like."(*37) Jaabir is reported to view its meaning to signify singing and listening to songs.(*38) This general view pointing to censure of music and song was also held by a great number of taabi'een, such as Ikrimah, Mujaahid, Makhool and Umar bin Shuayb, to name only a few.(*39)

(References can be found in that thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...an-sunnah.html )

So he said it three times to emphasize his position.

Also, Surah 31, Verse 6 according to him means mockery of the verses of The Qur'an in a funny manner. For eg-(I have no bad intentions, this is just an example) If we say "La ilaha Illallah" in a funny manner and in a rhythmic tune, hell is likely to come to us.

Can you please tell us where he said this and what is the purpose of your mentioning it?

:w:

[AabiruSabeel]

:sl:
I don't know whether this was posted before, but its related...

Evidences to prove that musical instruments are impermissible. (From an article I found by a scholar):

There are numerous evidences in the Qur’an and Sunnah which support this view. We will attempt to look at a few:

1) Allah Most High says:

“And there are among men, those that purchase idle tales, to mislead (men) from the path of Allah and throw ridicule. For such there will be a humiliating punishment” (Surah Luqman, V. 6).

The great Companion Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) states in the explanation of the word “idle tales”:

“By Allah its meaning is music” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi, 1/223 & authenticated by al-Hakim in his Mustadrak, 2/411).

Imam Ibn Abi Shayba related with his own transmission that He (Ibn Mas’ud) said:

“I swear By Him besides whom there is no God that it refers to singing” (132/5).

The great Companion and exegete of the Qur’an, Abd Allah ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) states:

“The meaning of the word is music, singing and the like” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi, 1/221& Musannaf Ibn abi Shayba, 132/5).

He also stated:

“Music and the purchase of female singers” (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba, 132/5).

Hasan al-Basri (Allah be pleased with him) said:

“This verse was revealed in relation to singing and musical instruments” (Tafsir ibn Kathir, 3/442)

The same explanation has also been narrated from Mujahid, Ikrima, Ibrahim Nakha’i, Mak’hul and others (Allah be pleased with them all).

The above verse of the Qur’an, along with the statements regarding its meaning is clear in the prohibition of music. It also serves as a severe warning for those who are involved in the trade of music in any way, shape or form, as Allah warned them of “Humiliating punishment”.

As for those that say, the verse refers to things that prevent one from the remembrance of Allah and not music, do not contradict the aforementioned explanation. The interpretation of the verse with “things that prevent one from the remembrance of Allah” is a more general interpretation which includes music and song, as one of the foremost things that stop you from the remembrance of Allah is music. This is the reason why the majority of the exegetes of the Qur’an have interpreted the verse with music only, or with all those acts that prevent one from the truth with music being at the forefront.

2) Allah Most High says whilst describing the attributes of the servants of the Most Compassionate (ibad al-Rahman):

“Those who witness no falsehood, and if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honourable avoidance” (Surah al-Furqan, V. 72).

Imam Abu Bakr al-Jassas relates from Sayyiduna Imam Abu Hanifah (Allah be pleased with him) that the meaning of “falsehood (zur)” is music & song, (Ahkam al-Qur’an, 3/428).

3) Allah Most High said to Shaytan:

“Lead to destruction those whom you can among them with your (seductive) voice” (Surah al-Isra, V.64).

One of the great exegete, Mujahid (Allah have mercy on him) interpreted the word “voice (sawt)” by music, singing, dancing and idle things. (Ruh al-Ma’ani, 15/111).

Imam Suyuti (Allah have mercy on him) quoted Mujahid as saying: “Voice (in this verse) is singing and flute” (al-Iklil fi istinbat al-tanzil, 1444).

Another exegete, Dahhak (Allah have mercy on him) also interpreted the word “Sawt” with flutes. (Qurtubi, al-Jami` li Ahkam al-Qur’an, 10/288).

Here also, a general interpretation can be given, as indeed some commentators of the Qur ' an have done, but this, as mentioned earlier, does not contradict the meaning given by Mujahid and Dahhak, as it is included in the more broad and general meaning.

GUIDANCE OF THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH
(Allah bless him & give him peace)

The are many Ahadith of the blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) which prohibit music and the usage of musical instruments to the extent that some scholars have gathered approximately forty Ahadith, of which the chain of transmission of some is sound (sahih), some good (hasan) and some weak (da’if). We will only mention a few here:

1) Sayyiduna Abu Malik al-Ash’ari (Allah be pleased with him) reports that he heard the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) say: “There will appear people in my Ummah, who will hold adultery, silk, alcohol and musical instruments to be lawful” (Sahih al-Bukhari)

2) Abu Malik al-Ash’ari (Allah be pleased with him) narrates a similar type of Hadith, but a different wording. He reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Soon there will be people from my Ummah who will consume alcohol, they will change its name (by regarding it permissible. m), on there heads will be instruments of music and singing. Allah will make the ground swallow them up, and turn them into monkeys and swine” (Sahih Ibn Hibban & Sunan Ibn Majah, with a sound chain of narration).

In the above two narrations, the word ma`azif is used. The scholars of the Arabic language are unanimous on the fact that it refers to musical instruments (Ibn Manzur, Lisan al-Arab, V.9, P.189).

The prohibition of musical instruments is clear in the two narrations. The first Hadith (recorded in Sahih al-Bukhari) mentions that certain people from the Ummah of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) will try to justify the permissibility of using musical instruments, along with adultery, silk and alcohol, despite these things being unlawful (haram) in Shariah.

Moreover, by mentioning music with the likes of adultery and alcohol just shows how severe the sin is. The one who attempts to permit music is similar to the one who permits alcohol or adultery.

The second Hadith describes the fate of such people in that the ground will be ordered to swallow them and they will be turned into monkeys and swine (may Allah save us all). The warning is specific to those that will hold music, alcohol, silk and adultery to be permissible. It is something that should be of concern for those who try and justify any of these things.

Also, to say that music will only be unlawful if it is in combination with alcohol, adultery and silk is incorrect. If this was the case, then why is it that the exception is only for music from the four things? The same could also be said for adultery, alcohol and silk. One may then even justify that alcohol and adultery is also permissible unless if they are consumed in combination with the other things!

Thus the above two narrations of the beloved of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) are clear proof on the impermissibility of music and songs.

3) Imran ibn Husain (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “This Ummah will experience the swallowing up of some people by the earth, metamorphosis of some into animals, and being rained upon with stones”. A man from amongst the Muslims asked: “O Messenger of Allah! When will this be?” He said: “When female singers and musical instruments appear and alcohol will (commonly) be consumed” (Recorded by Imam Tirmizi, Imam Ibn Majah in their respective Sunan collections, and the wording here is of Sunan Tirmizi).

4) Sayyiduna Ali ibn Talib (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “When my Ummah begin doing fifteen things, they will be inflicted with tribulations, and (from those 15 things He said): “When female singers and musical instruments become common” (Sunan Tirmizi).

5) Na’fi reports that once Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with them both) heard the sound of a Sheppard’s flute. He put his fingers in his ears, turned his mule away from the road and said: “O Nafi’! Can you hear? I (Nafi’) replied with the affirmative. He carried on walking (with his fingers in his ears) until I said: “the sound has ceased” He removed his fingers from his ears, came back on to the road and said: “I saw the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) doing the same when he heard the flute of the Sheppard” (Recorded by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad and Abu Dawud & Ibn Majah in their Sunans).

6) Abd Allah Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Verily Allah has forbidden alcohol, gambling, drum and guitar, and every intoxicant is haram” (Musnad Ahmad & Sunan Abu Dawud).

7) Abu Umama (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) said: “Allah Mighty and Majestic sent me as a guidance and mercy to believers and commanded me to do away with musical instruments, flutes, strings, crucifixes, and the affairs of the pre-Islamic period of ignorance” (Musnad Ahmad & Abu Dawud Tayalisi).

8) Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water does herbage” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi).

9) Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) said: “On the day of Resurrection, Allah will pour molten lead into the ears of whoever sits listening to a songstress” (Recorded by Ibn Asakir & Ibn al-Misri).

10)Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Bell is the flute of Shaytan” (Sahih Muslim & Sunan Abu Dawud).

There are many more narrations of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) in prohibition of musical instruments and unlawful singing. I have merely mentioned a few as an example.

The imam of the Shafi`i school, Imam Ibn Hajr al-Haytami gathered all these Ahadith which approximately total to forty in his excellent work ‘ Kaff al-Ra’a an Muharramat al-Lahw wa al-Sama’ , and then said: “All of this is explicit and compelling textual evidence that musical instruments of all types are unlawful” (2/270).

STATEMENTS OF THE FUQAHA

The great Hanafi jurist al-Kasani states:

“If a singer gathers people around him only to entertain them with his voice, then he will not be considered a upright person (a’dil), even though if he does not consume alcohol, as he will be considered the leader of sinners. If however, he only sings to himself in order to eradicate loneliness, then there is nothing wrong in doing so.

As far as the one who uses musical instruments is concerned, if the instruments themselves are not unlawful, such as the bamboo and tambourine, then there is nothing wrong with that and he will still be considered upright. However, if the instrument is unlawful, such as the lute and the like, then he will not be considered a upright person (to be a witness in the court. m), as these instruments can never be considered lawful” (Bada’i al-Sana’i, 6/269).

It is stated in Khulasat al-Fatawa:

“Listening to the sound of musical instruments is unlawful (haram), as the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Listening to songs is a sin” (4/345).

Ibn Humam, the great Hanafi Mujtahid makes a decisive statement in his famous Fath al-Qadir:

“Unlawful (haram) singing is when the theme of the song consists of unlawful things, such as the description of a particular living person’s beauty and features, the virtues of wine that provoke wine-drinking, the details and particulars of family affairs or those songs that mock and ridicule others.

However, songs that are free from such unlawful things and they consist of descriptions of the natural things, such as flowers and streams, etc… will be permissible. Yes, if they are accompanied by musical instruments, then it will be unlawful even if the song is full of advice and wisdom, not because of what the songs consist of, rather due to the musical instruments that are played with it.

And it is stated in the al-Mugni of Ibn Qudamah (Hanbali Madhhab) that musical instruments are of two types:

1) Unlawful, Such as those that are specially designed for entertainment and singing, like the flute and mandolin, etc…

2) Lawful, like the playing of the tambourine (daff) at weddings and other happy occasions” (Ibn Humam, Fath al-Qadir, 6/36).

The same has more or less been mentioned in the other Hanafi works also, such as al-Ikhtiyar, al-Bahr al-Ra’iq, al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya and others.

Imam an-Nawawi, the great Hadith and Shafi’i scholar states:

“It is unlawful to use or listen to musical instruments, such as, those which the drinkers are known for, like the mandolin, lute, cymbals, and flute. It is permissible to play the tambourine (daf) at weddings, circumcisions and other times, even if it has bells on its sides. Beating the Kuba, a long drum with a narrow middle, is also unlawful” (Mugni al-muhtaj, 4/429, & Reliance of the traveller, 775).

There are many other statements of the Fuqaha and scholars such al-Qurtubi, and each of the four Madhhabs, but due to the length of the article, I will suffice with the above.

As for those who hold music to be lawful usually present the Hadith of Sahih al-Bukhari in which two girls were singing in the presence of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her).

However, the permissibility of music can not be justified with this Hadith. The Hadith expert, Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani has refuted this claim in length in his Fath al-Bari, 2/345).

Firstly, these young girls were singing without any unlawful musical instruments and secondly, the content of the song was regarding war, thus perfectly lawful. Also, they were not professional singers as the words of the Hadith clearly indicate.

Some try to justify music with the Hadith in which the permissibility of playing the tambourine (daf) is mentioned.

However, as stated in the works of the Fuqaha, to play the tambourine is permissible at weddings, as it is not designed for sole entertainment and pleasure, rather for announcement, etc…

CONCLUSION

In the light of the above evidences from the Qur’an, sayings of our beloved Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) and texts of the various Fuqaha, the following is the decisive ruling with regards to music:

Musical instruments that are solely designed for entertainment are unlawful, with or without singing. However, to play the tambourine (daf) at weddings (and other occasions according to some fuqaha) will be permissible.

As far as the songs are concerned, if they consist of anything that is unlawful or they prevent one from the obligatory duties, then they will be unlawful. However, if they are free from the abovementioned things (and they are not accompanied by instruments), then it will be permissible to sing them.

:w:

[------]

:sl:

At the end of the day, there is proof from the Qur'an that music is haraam via interpretations of reliable scholars, and if you do not want to accept that, then that is your loss.

:w:

[hassaanejaz]

Well.... I have left music 60% and for that I give Thanks To Allah! Its just my grandfather's views and I very strongly look up to him as a modern voice!

[Emperor]

http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/ Please go to Surah Luqman=Surah 31 and use Eng- Yusuf ali. How do we know that music is idle tales/talks

• VERY good question.:)

[hassaanejaz]

Brothers and sisters........so......most of us are just blindly following what we get on the internet, why don't all go, rest, and do some research!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

• VERY good question.:)

lol a question we answered :)

[Silver Pearl]

Well.... I have left music 60% and for that I give Thanks To Allah! Its just my grandfather's views and I very strongly look up to him as a modern voice!

:salamext:


Mashallaah.

Verily it is Allaah who has blessed your uncle with an amazing voice, so powerful and swift I'm sure that you feel compelled to reside with his idea that Music is permissible. However, Allaah's blessings should not be taken for granted and used for haram means. I think we have established that music is not permissible, whether an individual choses to take heed or not is not upto us, that is the decree of Allaah.

Your uncle can use his voice for beneficial means, he can sing nasheeds (excluding the use of music) and above all he can recite the Qur'an. I do not know what is more sweet to the ear and moving to the heart than the voice of a believer recitating the Qur'an eloquently, surely Allaah has blessed your uncle with a good voice and he can take this opportunity to gain ajar. Indeed he may be a modern voice and so show him that his voice should not be wasted on a matter than can harm him. Imagine if your uncle persued the path to memorise the Qur'an (if he is not already a hafid) and dedicated his life to filling the hearts of Muslims with Qur'an, what is more rewarding and blissful than this? I hope everything works out for the best Inshallaah.

[arif]

i havnt really studied much in2 the topic , but , when i was a part of some other forums, i came across a similar thread ...

what i learnt there , is dat .. music which does not invovle ne seductive , abusive or such other wrds is ok , and music just 2 calm the mind is rite ... and perhaps , its obvious u cant see the music videos of this age , just coz of the nudity they show in ... im not sure , but even some rational thinking wud lead 2 the same conclusion !!!

allah knows the best ,
pls correct if i am wrong

[hassaanejaz]

yeah.....thats what I think.
Anyways. I read somewhere that Allaah(swt) has said that if a thing is not clear whether it is haraam or halal you should follow the easier way.

[Umm Yoosuf]

yeah.....thats what I think.
Anyways. I read somewhere that Allaah(swt) has said that if a thing is not clear whether it is haraam or halal you should follow the easier way.

:sl:

Do you have dalil? Which Ayah says that?

I think you should take a look at this excellent post:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post682192

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

yeah.....thats what I think.
Anyways. I read somewhere that Allaah(swt) has said that if a thing is not clear whether it is haraam or halal you should follow the easier way.

:salamext:

Careful now, we don't want to worship our desires.:)

''The halal is clear and the haram is clear, but between the two are matters which are doubtful to many people. Therefore, whoever avoids these doubtful matters clears himself in regards to his religion and honour and is thereby safe, but he who falls into doubtful matters falls into haram. [He is like] a shepherd grazing his sheep at the edge of a sanctuary, about to cross over the boundary. Truly, every king has a sanctuary, and truly Allah's sanctuary is His prohibitions.'' [Bukhari & Muslim]

[hassaanejaz]

Please I beg you brothers and sisters to research on this topic and not blindly follow what is said. And, does the Hanafi school forbid music?

[------]

:salamext:

Brother, how blind dyou have to be? Lots of people have given EVIDENCE from QUR'AN as backup that music is haraam. Why then, can u not accept that?!

And, does the Hanafi school forbid music?

All 4 schools forbid it.

Sorry for being so harsh but the evidence is so clear.

:wasalamex

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Please I beg you brothers and sisters to research on this topic and not blindly follow what is said. And, does the Hanafi school forbid music?

bro i already addressed this ages before,


subhanAllah bro i know its amazing how we've been blindly following our desires all this time but the truth is that music is haram, so is shaving!

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Please I beg you brothers and sisters to research on this topic and not blindly follow what is said. And, does the Hanafi school forbid music?

Imam Abu Haneefah(*108) has perhaps the harshest view of the four famous Imams of jurisprudence. His school of thought is the strictest, for he detested singing and considered it sinful. As for his disciples, they have explicitly confirmed the prohibition of listening to all musical amusements and pastimes, including wind instruments (mazaameer),(*109) all types of tambourines, hand drums (dufoof)(*110) and even the striking of sticks(al-qadeeb). They have asserted that such actions constitute disobedience to Allah and that the performer of such action is sinful, therefore necessitating rejection of his testimony.(*111) They have further stated that it is incumbent upon the Muslim to struggle to avoid listening to such things, even if he were passing by or stationed near them (without any willful intention). Abu Haneefah's closest disciple, Abu Yoosuf, stated that if the sound of musical instruments (ma'aazif) and amusements (malaahi) were heard coming from a house, the house could be entered without permission of its owners.(*112) The justification for this is that the command regarding the prohibition of abominable things (munkaaraat) is mandatory, and cannot be established if such entering rests upon the permission of the residents of the premises.(*113) This is the madhhab (position) of the rest of the Kufic scholars as well, such as Ibraheem An-Nakha'i, Ash-Sha'bi, Hammaad and Ath-Thowri. They do not differ on this issue. The same can be said of the general body of jurisprudence of Al-Basrah.(*114)

(*108)The first of the four famous imaams. He was born in Koofah, Iraq in the 80th year of the Hijrah. He died in Baghdad in the year 150 H. See Adh-Dhahabi's Seeyar A'laamin Nubalaa, vol. 6, pp. 390-403.

(*109)Such as flutes, pipes, horns and related wind instruments.

(*110)Small hand drums without steel jangles. This permitted type is to be used on certain restricted occassions as designated by the sunnah, the details of which will follow.

(*111)Testimony given by witnesses concerning matters or crimes involving punishments is only accepted from trustworthy, obedient Muslims.

(*112)In shari'ah, the mere suspicion of vice is not sufficient to warranat invasion of privacy by the authorities. Here, however, the violation is not confined to the privacy of the home and should be prevented, even forcibly, to avoid corruption of society.

(*113)Quoted from 'Ownul Ma'bood Sharhu Sunan Abi Dawood, vol. 13, pp. 273-274.

(*114)Stated by Abut Teeb Taahir At-Tabari and quoted in Al-Qurtubi's Al-Jaami'li Ahkaamil Quraan, vol. 14, p. 55.

You would have read this brother if you had decided to read the book that was linked to you many times:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...an-sunnah.html

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Also remember that if you trust those who conveyed to us the Qur'an from the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him), then you should also trust them in the way the Messenger of Allaah taught them the Qur'an, and the way they taught it us [i.e. interpreted.] :)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

do you accept the interpretation of the beautiful sahabi's and tabi'een?

Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs


{ وَمِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ ٱلْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُواً أُوْلَـٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ }


(And of mankind) the reference here is to al-Nadr Ibn al-Harith (is he who payeth for mere pastime of discourse) discourse of falsehood, books on legends, on the sun, the stars, mathematics and singing; it is also said this means: associating partners with Allah, (that he may mislead) by means of it (from Allah's way) from Allah's religion and obedience (without knowledge) or proof, (and maketh it the butt of mockery. For such there is a shameful doom) for these, there is a severe chastisement.
Surah Luqman Verse 6


The first category defines the term "lahwal hadeeth":

(a) singing and listening to songs,
(b) the purchasing of professional male or female singers and
(c) the purchase of instruments of amusement; namely, the drum (tabl). The elements of this category revolve around reference to the blameworthy usage of instruments of idle amusement, in short, music and song. This view was held by a number of companions such as Ibn Mas'ood, Jaabir and Ibn Abbaas. It is related that the former was questioned regarding the meaning of the verse under discussion to which he replied, "I swear by the One other than Whom there is no god that it refers to singing [ghinaa]"; he repeated it three times to emphasize his position. [14 ]It is related that Ibn Abbaas said it referred to "singing and the like." [15 ]Jaabir is reported to view its meaning to signify singing and listening to songs. [16 ]This general view pointing to censure of music and song was also held by a great number of taabi'een, such as Ikrimah, Mujaahid, Mak-hooi and Umar bin Shu'ayb, to name only a few.
17 For details, see the tafseer of Ibn Katheer, vol. 6, p. 33 Ai-Qurtubi's Al-Jaami'. vol. 14, pp. 51-53 and As-Suyooti's Ad-Durr Al-Manthoor. vol. 5, pp. 158-160.

'And excite any of them whom you can with your voice. Assault them with your cavalry and infantry, be a partner with them in their wealth and children, and make them promises.' But Satan promises them nothing except deceit"
SoorahAl-Israa, 17:64

It is related that some of the commentators from the generation of the taabi'een, such as Mujaahid and Ad-Dahhaak, [10 ]interpreted Satan's exciting mankind with his voice to mean through the use of music, song and amusement. Ad-Dahhaak said it was the sound of wind instruments.

[hassaanejaz]

ok....................I was just asking for the exact Quranic evidence.........not quotes picked up from websites! *Ahem* Can I have them now?!?!

[Maimunah]

:sl:

can u read the post above by ibnabdulhakim!!!

fear Allah and speak to an alim

a good site is islamtoday. ask ur quetsion and he will give u answer. its seems to me that ur not satisfied even though there's soo many evidence from the quraan and sunah in this thread

may Allah guide u

:w:

[samah12]

:sl:

One of the places in the Qur’an in which music and singing is forbidden is the following;

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead men from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, the Verses of the Qur’an) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment.”
[Qur’an, Surah 31, Verse 6]

So, the above verse of the Qur’an, along with the statements regarding its meaning is clear in the prohibition of music.

:w:

please can you tell me which publishers published your Quran, other people on this and other threads have included the same verse including the bracketed (i.e. music, singing, etc.) comment but the bracketed portion is an interpretation and not actually included in the Quran as follows:

031.006
YUSUFALI: But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.
PICKTHAL: And of mankind is he who payeth for mere pastime of discourse, that he may mislead from Allah's way without knowledge, and maketh it the butt of mockery. For such there is a shameful doom.
SHAKIR: And of men is he who takes instead frivolous discourse to lead astray from Allah's path without knowledge, and to take it for a mockery; these shall have an abasing chastisement.

FROM www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran

[Shakir 31:6] And of men is he who takes instead frivolous discourse to lead astray from Allah's path without knowledge, and to take it for a mockery; these shall have an abasing chastisement.

[Yusufali 31:6] But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.

[Pickthal 31:6] And of mankind is he who payeth for mere pastime of discourse, that he may mislead from Allah's way without knowledge, and maketh it the butt of mockery. For such there is a shameful doom.

www.--------------/quran/

I would be very interested to know where you are getting this quote from because to me it looks like a blatant innovation.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

what is the matter that you disbelieve when the proof is right in front of your eyes?

look at the post i have given. wallahi sahabi and tabieen stating that the verses were talking about music and yet you refuse?

do you think you have a better interpretation then the sahabi's? Audhubillah because that is what your implying!


may Allah soften our hearts and guide us..

[samah12]

:sl:

can u read the post above by ibnabdulhakim!!!

fear Allah and speak to an alim

a good site is islamtoday. ask ur quetsion and he will give u answer. its seems to me that ur not satisfied even though there's soo many evidence from the quraan and sunah in this thread

may Allah guide u

:w:

But this is the problem, you say "there's so many evidence from the quraan" but the verse being quoted is in fact being misquoted - as in my last post on this thread.

How are people meant to know what to believe if people are going to misquote the Quran? I accept that people, from Imams to us ordinary people, have differing views about this topic but to misquote the Quran to make your argument is surely not the answer.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I would be very interested to know where you are getting this quote from because to me it looks like a blatant innovation.

:sl:

Will you interpret the Qur'an to your own view or the ones that came before of the Companions and the Salaf? It has already been explained what the understanding of this verse was of the Salaf and the one who goes against their way has deviated. They understood it to be musical instruments and thus in the parenthesis is their tafsir of the verse. As far as I know, explaining a verse according the understanding of the Salaf is not an innovation.

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad SAW) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. [4: 65]

The Ahadith are very clear and it is a very grave matter to leave them to follow one's one desires.

[samah12]

:sl:

Will you interpret the Qur'an to your own view or the ones that came before of the Companions and the Salaf? It has already been explained what the understanding of this verse was of the Salaf and the one who goes against their way has deviated. They understood it to be musical instruments and thus in the parenthesis is their tafsir of the verse. As far as I know, explaining a verse according the understanding of the Salaf is not an innovation.

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad SAW) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. [4: 65]

The Ahadith are very clear and it is a very grave matter to leave them to follow one's one desires.

Thank you for your comment brother but I was not suggesting that the interpretation is an innovation. I was saying that by including the interpreation in the Quranic verse is creating an innovation because those words are read by people as being the words written in the Quran, which they are not.

We can quote various scholars all day and night, you from your point of view and me from mine but until I am convinced of an interpretation I will stand by my views, not in order to "follow my desires" but because I will not be led astray from the Quran by any man's interpretion.

Because of this thread I have not slept for 2 days, I am determined to find out why a man that leads prayer in Mecca has a song, with video, on Arabic television, if music is indeed haraam. So please do not think I have closed my mind to this.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Thank you for your comment brother but I was not suggesting that the interpretation is an innovation. I was saying that by including the interpreation in the Quranic verse is creating an innovation because those words are read by people as being the words written in the Quran, which they are not.

Not really, since it's only for making it easier to understand, and the material itself is authentic since its based on the statements of the Salaf.

We can quote various scholars all day and night, you from your point of view and me from mine but until I am convinced of an interpretation I will stand by my views, not in order to "follow my desires" but because I will not be led astray from the Quran by any man's interpretion.

The opinion of an 'alim or mujtahid, however great, does not take the weight of an evidence in and of itself. That is why you were provided with clear Ahadith and the Companion's understanding of it. If you refer to the Companion's interpretation as simply a 'man's interpretation', taking other's interpretation over theirs, then you're walking down a dangerous path.

What is being declared Haram is musical instruments. Islamic Nasheeds are permissible as long as they don't contain musical instruments etc.

See this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...an-sunnah.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...-nasheeds.html

Because of this thread I have not slept for 2 days, I am determined to find out why a man that leads prayer in Mecca has a song, with video, on Arabic television, if music is indeed haraam. So please do not think I have closed my mind to this.

We do not base our religion on whether a person even if he leads prayer in Makkah has music in his video or not. We base it on the Qur'an and the Sunnah and the understanding of the Salaf.

[samah12]

Not really, since it's only for making it easier to understand, and the material itself is authentic since its based on the statements of the Salaf.
The opinion of an 'alim or mujtahid, however great, does not take the weight of an evidence in and of itself. That is why you were provided with clear Ahadith and the Companion's understanding of it. If you refer to the Companion's interpretation as simply a 'man's interpretation', taking other's interpretation over theirs, then you're walking down a dangerous path.

What is being declared Haram is musical instruments. Islamic Nasheeds are permissible as long as they don't contain musical instruments etc.

See this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...an-sunnah.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...-nasheeds.html
We do not base our religion on whether a person even if he leads prayer in Makkah has music in his video or not. We base it on the Qur'an and the Sunnah and the understanding of the Salaf.

Sorry I don't know how to put your quotes in and answer them in turn so please be patient with me.

Firstly, you add to the words of the Quran and say it is ok because the material is 'authentic'. My reply - The jurist Abu Bakr al-'Arabi says, "No sound hadith is available concerning the prohibition of singing," and Ibn Hazm says, "All that is reported on this subject is false and fabricated ". Do you think these two learned men would agree that it is ok to add to the words of Allah the material you say is 'authentic'?

Secondly you say That is why you were provided with clear Ahadith and the Companion's understanding of it. If you refer to the Companion's interpretation as simply a 'man's interpretation', taking other's interpretation over theirs, then you're walking down a dangerous path. My reply - Ibn 'Abbas said, " 'Aishah gave a girl relative of hers in marriage to a man of the Ansar. The Prophet (peace be on him) came and asked, 'Did you send a singer along with her?' 'No,' said 'Aishah. The Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) then said, The Ansar are a people who love poetry. You should have sent along someone who would sing" (Reported by Ibn Majah.) So do you say this is not authentic? And if you do please explain your personal criteria for authenticity.

Thirdly you say- We do not base our religion on whether a person even if he leads prayer in Makkah has music in his video or not. We base it on the Qur'an and the Sunnah and the understanding of the Salaf. My reply - surely we base our religion on the Quran first and foremost, before any hadith, sunnah, companion or scholars opinion. Posts in this thread have repeatedly asked for the verse(s) in the Quran that prohibit music and because the Quran does not contain a verse that specifically prohibits music we always end up with the same debates about 'opinions'.

A great example is that of the much quoted hadith "The Prophet (pbuh) said "There will be people from my ummah those who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk, wine-drinking, and the use of musical
instruments (ma'azif). Some people will stay at the side of a mountain and
when their shepherd comes in the evening to ask them for his needs, they will
say, 'return to us tomorrow.' Then Allah will destroy them during the night
by causing the mountain to fall on them, while he changes others into apes and swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of
Resurrection. Related by Imam Al-Bukhari in Fat-hul Baari

So how do you explain this?

"Say (O Muhammad), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe." 7:188

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Firstly, you add to the words of the Quran and say it is ok because the material is 'authentic'. My reply - The jurist Abu Bakr al-'Arabi says, "No sound hadith is available concerning the prohibition of singing," and Ibn Hazm says, "All that is reported on this subject is false and fabricated ". Do you think these two learned men would agree that it is ok to add to the words of Allah the material you say is 'authentic'?

There is an ihkhilaf regarding singing, and they were among the scholars that allowed it. However, the ones that came before them clearly forbade it.

Secondly you say That is why you were provided with clear Ahadith and the Companion's understanding of it. If you refer to the Companion's interpretation as simply a 'man's interpretation', taking other's interpretation over theirs, then you're walking down a dangerous path. My reply - Ibn 'Abbas said, " 'Aishah gave a girl relative of hers in marriage to a man of the Ansar. The Prophet (peace be on him) came and asked, 'Did you send a singer along with her?' 'No,' said 'Aishah. The Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) then said, The Ansar are a people who love poetry. You should have sent along someone who would sing" (Reported by Ibn Majah.) So do you say this is not authentic? And if you do please explain your personal criteria for authenticity.

This proves you did not read what I linked you to. Marriage is one of the exceptions and it clearly says that in the thread I linked you to.

http://www.islamicboard.com/300475-post7.html

Thirdly you say- We do not base our religion on whether a person even if he leads prayer in Makkah has music in his video or not. We base it on the Qur'an and the Sunnah and the understanding of the Salaf. My reply - surely we base our religion on the Quran first and foremost, before any hadith, sunnah, companion or scholars opinion. Posts in this thread have repeatedly asked for the verse(s) in the Quran that prohibit music and because the Quran does not contain a verse that specifically prohibits music we always end up with the same debates about 'opinions'.

You are mistaken. The Qur'an and the Sunnah/Hadith have EQUAL weight in matters. Therefore, if the Messenger forbade something, it is as if Allaah has forbidden it. You will not find details of fasting, Zakat, Hajj etc in the Qur'an, you find them in the Hadith. Exactly like that, this is also mentioned in the Hadith which is authentic. And because of that your arguement here is invalid.

And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. [16:44]

A great example is that of the much quoted hadith "The Prophet (pbuh) said "There will be people from my ummah those who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk, wine-drinking, and the use of musical
instruments (ma'azif). Some people will stay at the side of a mountain and
when their shepherd comes in the evening to ask them for his needs, they will
say, 'return to us tomorrow.' Then Allah will destroy them during the night
by causing the mountain to fall on them, while he changes others into apes and swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of
Resurrection. Related by Imam Al-Bukhari in Fat-hul Baari

So how do you explain this?

"Say (O Muhammad), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe." 7:188

The fallacity of your arguement here is that you have a predetermined explanation of the verse, and then you cite that very explanation to 'prove' your point.

Now let me explain. The Messenger does not know of the Unseen except that which Allaah has informed him of it. There were many prophecies in the Hadith which have come true, here is a compiled list of them:
http://www.islamicboard.com/6616-post5.html

The knowledge of those events was revealed to the Messenger from Allaah even though it is not part of the Qur'an.

The fallacy of rejecting Hadith comes from ignorance and I won't go into that here. So I ask you to before you criticze authentic Hadith, to atleast learn them. Since you quoted Ibn Hazm, take this quote from him as well:

Kitaabul Ahkaam: “When there comes the text (of a hadeeth) and no two Muslims differ on its correctness and authenticity as having come from the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and being what he has in fact said, then it is obligatory to follow it. It (i.e. the sunnah) is the explanation of what Allah intends in the Qur'aan and clarification of what has been mentioned without details.”

I hope you do not reject Hadith simply because you fail to understand them. Please check this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...ct-hadith.html

Now, lets get back on topic.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post698732


^ is this not enough proof?

do we not take ayyah WITH explenation of how the sahabi's understood it? is this not acceptable?

why must we dwelve further?

what is this?

[samah12]

Al Madani, Thank you for this information. I am not going to reply yet because you have given me much food for thought and I need to do some research now. Please keep watching this thread I will reply when I have worked my way through your comments.

Peace

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Regarding Ibn Hazm that you quoted from him, he has also said this in Tawq Al Hamamah, where he wrote briefly about the factors that led to the destruction of the Islamic society in Spain almost 1,000 years ago. Keep in mind this is coming from a scholar who himself allowed listening to singing. But never did he - nor any of the Muslim scholars of or before his time - permit the enjoyment of the voice of a foreign woman.

"It is forbidden for the Muslim to enjoy the song-like voice of a woman who is foreign to him."

Later on in the book, he continued:

"And I will describe something to you that you see with your own eyes: and that is that I have never seen a woman in any place who senses that a man is looking at or listening to her, except that she begins to gesture in a way that she not normally gesture, and begins to make remarks the likes of which she was not making before, and you would see her pay more attention to how she articulates her words and how she varies her postures - in an obvious and non-subtle manner. Men do the same thing if they sense the presence of women. As for the showing off of physical features, straightening of the walk, and emergence of flirtatious behavior that occurs when men and women come to be in each other's presence or cross each other's paths, then this is clearer than the Sun in every place.

Allah - the Mighty and Exalted - Said: {"Tell the believers to lower their eyes and protect their private parts..."} [an-Nur; 30], and He Said: {"And let the women not tap with their feet, making their hidden ornaments known..."} [an-Nur; 31]

Were it not for Allah's knowledge of the soft manner in which women droop their eyelids when attempting to win the affection of men's hearts, and the vile plans that they secretly concoct in order to rouse a man's desires, He would never have revealed a verse regarding something so remote."

['Tawq al-Hamamah'; p. 97]

So how can you argue for singing using him when the quote is out of context, and the songs of then cannot be compared to the songs of today?

Al Madani, Thank you for this information. I am not going to reply yet because you have given me much food for thought and I need to do some research now. Please keep watching this thread I will reply when I have worked my way through your comments.

Peace

Insha'Allaah.

[Maimunah]

:sl:

Ma’aazif is the plural of mi’zafah, and refers to musical instruments (Fath al-Baari, 10/55), instruments which are played (al-Majmoo’, 11/577).

Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrated from al-Jawhari (may Allaah have mercy on him) that ma’aazif means singing. In his Sihaah it says that it means musical instruments. It was also said that it refers to the sound of the instruments.

In al-Hawaashi by al-Dimyaati (may Allaah have mercy on him) it says: ma’aazif means drums (dufoof, sing. daff) and other instruments which are struck or beaten (Fath al-Baari, 10/55).

Evidence of prohibition in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

Allaah says in Soorat Luqmaan (interpretation of the meaning):

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40).

Al-Hasan al-Basri (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this aayah was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451).

Al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this includes all manner of haraam speech, all idle talk and falsehood, and all nonsense that encourages kufr and disobedience; the words of those who say things to refute the truth and argue in support of falsehood to defeat the truth; and backbiting, slander, lies, insults and curses; the singing and musical instruments of the Shaytaan; and musical instruments which are of no spiritual or worldly benefit. (Tafseer al-Sa’di, 6/150)

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The interpretation of the Sahaabah and Taabi’in, that ‘idle talk’ refers to singing, is sufficient. This was reported with saheeh isnaads from Ibn ‘Abbaas and Ibn Mas’ood. Abu’l-Sahbaa’ said: I asked Ibn Mas’ood about the aayah (interpretation of the meaning), ‘“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks’ [Luqmaan 31:6]. He said: By Allaah, besides Whom there is no other god, this means singing – and he repeated it three times.

It was also reported with a saheeh isnaad from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them both) that this means singing. There is no contradiction between the interpretation of “idle talk” as meaning singing and the interpretation of it as meaning stories of the Persians and their kings, and the kings of the Romans, and so on, such as al-Nadr ibn al-Haarith used to tell to the people of Makkah to distract them from the Qur’aan. Both of them are idle talk.

Hence Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “Idle talk” is falsehood and singing. Some of the Sahaabah said one and some said the other, and some said both. Singing is worse and more harmful than stories of kings, because it leads to zinaa and makes hypocrisy grow (in the heart); it is the trap of the Shaytaan, and it clouds the mind. The way in which it blocks people from the Qur’aan is worse than the way in which other kinds of false talk block them, because people are naturally inclined towards it and tend to want to listen to it. The aayaat condemn replacing the Qur’aan with idle talk in order to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah without knowledge and taking it as a joke, because when an aayah of the Qur’aan is recited to such a person, he turns his back as if he heard them not, as if there were deafness in his ear. If he hears anything of it, he makes fun of it. All of this happens only in the case of the people who are most stubbornly kaafirs and if some of it happens to singers and those who listen to them, they both have a share of this blame. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/258-259).

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“[Allaah said to Iblees:] And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice (i.e. songs, music, and any other call for Allaah’s disobedience)…” [al-Israa’ 17:64]

It was narrated that Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice” – his voice [the voice of Iblees/Shaytaan] is singing and falsehood.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This idaafah [possessive or genitive construction, i.e., your voice] serves to make the meaning specific, as with the phrases [translated as] “your cavalry” and “your infantry” [later in the same aayah]. Everyone who speaks in any way that is not obedient to Allaah, everyone who blows into a flute or other woodwind instrument, or who plays any haraam kind of drum, this is the voice of the Shaytaan. Everyone who walks to commit some act of disobedience towards Allaah is part of his [the Shaytaan’s] infantry, and anyone who rides to commit sin is part of his cavalry. This is the view of the Salaf, as Ibn ‘Abi Haatim narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas: his infantry is everyone who walks to disobey Allaah. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan). (islamqa.com)

hopefully this will be enough for u as an evidence

Allah knows best n may Allah guide us all

:w:

[------]

:salamext:

Subhan'Allâh. Wallâhi, I have never seen people be so ignorant, when the proof is so clear in the Qur'an and the Hadith!

[samah12]

:salamext:

Subhan'Allâh. Wallâhi, I have never seen people be so ignorant, when the proof is so clear in the Qur'an and the Hadith!

Some scholars say it is clear and others don't, if the scholars cannot agree then yes I am ignorant, as are we all.

It is comments like this that make me regret reverting to Islam and seriously question whether it was the right thing to do!!!!!!!!

Scholars have been debating the meaning of 'idle talks' for centuries but you want me to just say oh yes you are right because you say so/ Who exactly is the ignorant one here?:raging:

[samah12]

:sl:

Regarding Ibn Hazm that you quoted from him, he has also said this in Tawq Al Hamamah, where he wrote briefly about the factors that led to the destruction of the Islamic society in Spain almost 1,000 years ago. Keep in mind this is coming from a scholar who himself allowed listening to singing. But never did he - nor any of the Muslim scholars of or before his time - permit the enjoyment of the voice of a foreign woman.

"It is forbidden for the Muslim to enjoy the song-like voice of a woman who is foreign to him."

Later on in the book, he continued:

"And I will describe something to you that you see with your own eyes: and that is that I have never seen a woman in any place who senses that a man is looking at or listening to her, except that she begins to gesture in a way that she not normally gesture, and begins to make remarks the likes of which she was not making before, and you would see her pay more attention to how she articulates her words and how she varies her postures - in an obvious and non-subtle manner. Men do the same thing if they sense the presence of women. As for the showing off of physical features, straightening of the walk, and emergence of flirtatious behavior that occurs when men and women come to be in each other's presence or cross each other's paths, then this is clearer than the Sun in every place.

Allah - the Mighty and Exalted - Said: {"Tell the believers to lower their eyes and protect their private parts..."} [an-Nur; 30], and He Said: {"And let the women not tap with their feet, making their hidden ornaments known..."} [an-Nur; 31]

Were it not for Allah's knowledge of the soft manner in which women droop their eyelids when attempting to win the affection of men's hearts, and the vile plans that they secretly concoct in order to rouse a man's desires, He would never have revealed a verse regarding something so remote."

['Tawq al-Hamamah'; p. 97]

So how can you argue for singing using him when the quote is out of context, and the songs of then cannot be compared to the songs of today?



Insha'Allaah.

Salaam Aleykom Brother

I have spent 18 hours today researching this on the net and can say with absolute honesty I am no further forward. I am prepared to open myself up to further ridicule and explain my dilemma (not referring to yourself whose discussion I have found very constructive).

Your comments made me truly stand back and question my view, which is always a good thing. I have found so many sites discussing this issue and have tried to read through many of them with an unbiased view. Unfortunately, when I read the argument for music being haraam it swayed me but then I read the argument that music praising Allah is not haraam and I found myself swayed by these arguments also and yet others that say any music not encouraging you to sin is not haraam, I am less swayed by this.

My conclusion is this: I simply do not have the knowledge to come to a correct conclusion on this issue. Insh'allah my husband and I will go to Mecca at Ramadan and I shall leave this question open in my mind until then. I hope you will not disagree that I am most likely to get the definitive answer from Mecca. Whatever answer I get in Mecca I shall of course accept and also post on this site.

Thank you brother for opening my mind to this question.

[SirZubair]

I have spent 18 hours today researching this on the net and can say with absolute honesty I am no further forward.

Suggestion :

Ditch the internet and go study under a shaykh who has got an Ijaza to teach Islam. A shaykh who has Earnt his Ijaza by studying under Shaykhs who earnt their Ijazas through a unbroken golden chain of narrators.

Not just any1 who claims to follow 'the quran and sunnah'.

You won't find many shaykhs who have an ijaza to teach online, but yes, you will definetly find alot of so called 'followers of the quran and sunnah' online.

[Maimunah]

[QUOTE=samah12;699929]

It is comments like this that make me regret reverting to Islam and seriously question whether it was the right thing to do!!!!!!!!

QUOTE]

:sl:
how can u say that subhanalah!!!
:w:

[Maimunah]

:sl:

Ibn Mas`ud said,
“The love of the Quran and the love of music cannot combine in the heart of a believer.”

taken from ar-riqaq thread

:w:

[------]

Some scholars say it is clear and others don't, if the scholars cannot agree then yes I am ignorant, as are we all.

It is comments like this that make me regret reverting to Islam and seriously question whether it was the right thing to do!!!!!!!!

Scholars have been debating the meaning of 'idle talks' for centuries but you want me to just say oh yes you are right because you say so/ Who exactly is the ignorant one here?:raging:

:salamext:

Excuse me, sister, if I hurt your feelings. I just don't understand why you cannot accept the impermissability of listening to Music, when it clearly states it. Please check this thread out Thoroughly Insha'Allâh.

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...an-sunnah.html

Also chek this Detailed Fatwa out:

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...c-singing.html

Want more evidence? Check this thread out Insha'Allah
http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...ght-wrong.html

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:

Ibn Mas`ud said,
“The love of the Quran and the love of music cannot combine in the heart of a believer.”

taken from ar-riqaq thread

:w:

jazakAllah khair ukhtee.

wallahi such a little sentence can give imense strength to the heart!

the prophet saws got strengthened by the ways of his previous prophets and we get strengthened by them and also by our sahabi's, mashaAllah

[hassaanejaz]

Ok..ok..ok......I just opened the Quran for the meaningz 2day and surah luqman verse 6 means that if anyone tells u abt an islamic thing u will suffer from an azaab! And my Islamic teacher also approved of the fact that music is not considered to be haraam in surah luqman! It means, for eg.- If IbnAbdulHakim tells me"u must offer salah 5 times a day" and i dont approve of the fact and make fun of it!

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Salaam Aleykom Brother

I have spent 18 hours today researching this on the net and can say with absolute honesty I am no further forward. I am prepared to open myself up to further ridicule and explain my dilemma (not referring to yourself whose discussion I have found very constructive).

Your comments made me truly stand back and question my view, which is always a good thing. I have found so many sites discussing this issue and have tried to read through many of them with an unbiased view. Unfortunately, when I read the argument for music being haraam it swayed me but then I read the argument that music praising Allah is not haraam and I found myself swayed by these arguments also and yet others that say any music not encouraging you to sin is not haraam, I am less swayed by this.

My conclusion is this: I simply do not have the knowledge to come to a correct conclusion on this issue. Insh'allah my husband and I will go to Mecca at Ramadan and I shall leave this question open in my mind until then. I hope you will not disagree that I am most likely to get the definitive answer from Mecca. Whatever answer I get in Mecca I shall of course accept and also post on this site.

Thank you brother for opening my mind to this question.

:w:

Jazakillah Khayr for approaching the issue with an open mind, very few people do that.

Insha'Allaah sister, ask there in Makkah, you'll find alot of great scholars there and follow whatever reply you get, thats the safest option Insha'Allaah. The Scholars there are qualified, and as mentioned above, they have Ijazas.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Ok..ok..ok......I just opened the Quran for the meaningz 2day and surah luqman verse 6 means that if anyone tells u abt an islamic thing u will suffer from an azaab! And my Islamic teacher also approved of the fact that music is not considered to be haraam in surah luqman! It means, for eg.- If IbnAbdulHakim tells me"u must offer salah 5 times a day" and i dont approve of the fact and make fun of it!

but bro... i gave evidence from the sahaabi's

may Allah guide us all

[noodles]

For those of you who are trying to defend the permissibility of Music, I suggest you re-read the Hadith. It is clearly stated that we are to stay away from "doubtful" matters. Although I hardly consider this doubtful, for you people this may seem reasonable.

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 49:

Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'Both legal and illegal things are evident but in between them there are doubtful (suspicious) things and most of the people have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from these suspicious things saves his religion and his honor. And whoever indulges in these suspicious things is like a shepherd who grazes (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is His illegal (forbidden) things. Beware! There is a piece of flesh in the body if it becomes good (reformed) the whole body becomes good but if it gets spoilt the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.

After thorough research, If you are still in doubt about it, then stay away from it. Some people here want to make it Halal, because they can't seem to let go of their habits.

Argue all you want, you will have Allah to answer to when the day comes.

[Maimunah]

Argue all you want, you will have Allah to answer to when the day comes.

subhanalah!!

am out of this thread. jazakaAllah khayr bro

:w:

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace



[MAD]Argue all you want, you will have Allah to answer to when the day comes.[/MAD]


---no offence , pl but i think this approach is not good ,specially when u deal with other Muslims. We ALL have to be accountable on the Last Day ......not only those who think Music is not totally forbidden.

We must discuss/approach postively , not with threat/negatively.

If u read Quran , u will see how Allah ordered Prophets (pbut) to talk to genntly even with arrogant non-Muslims. So , surely Muslims deserve more respect ......at least the same.

[noodles]

Hey, I wasn't threatening anybody here. I was trying to say that we must remain in constant remembrance of Allah SWT.

If you listen to Nasheeds, thats fine by me, most scholars say it is permissable and I wont say otherwise. My message wasn't directed towards you nor was it negative. Tell me, what is that you think about when listening to music on a normal day? (Of course it depends on the genre of music) Most people remember their fondest memories and think on them, and if you must know, these memories have nothing to do with Allah SWT.

The point I 'was' trying to make is that, people nowadays are so attached to music, that they memorize entire songs only by listening to it 3-4 times. Whats more is that they let their emotions astray and forget about all aspects of life. Imagine how many more Huffaz we would have if we only dedicated that much amount listening to the Quran.

I've been there, I've listened to Rap music, I've listened to Reggae, I've listened to Soft rock, Classical, Heavy metal, Techno, you name it I've listened to it. It had a severe impact on the way I acted. For instance, Rap music was usually entertained when groups of "Thugs" and "Wannabes" got together. Similarly, Classical was only heard when I was heart-broken or feeling lonely, Heavy metal, when I was feeling miserable. I've been there and I've went through a lot, despite being young.

Ofcourse I can say that it's not the same for every single person, but when you collectively look at the aspect ratio of the pros and cons of music in a group, it is clearly visible that the cons outweigh the pros.

In a sense, you are a mirror of what you listen to. (You may ask how is that bad?) Well if you are listening to 50 cent then it is most likely that you respect him and want to be in someway like him. If you are listening to Linkin Park, then it is probable that you want to dress in their fashion. You idolize these musicians and that very thing is un-acceptable.



As for my last sentence, if you are not afraid of the prospect of which hand the book will be handed to you on the Day of Judgement, then I don't know what scares you.


Doubt doesn't establish Imaan, firmness does.

For the arguments present by the music-lovers, I'd say there was plenty of doubt present in their hearts.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;


[PIE]if you are not afraid of the prospect of which hand the book will be handed to you on the Day of Judgement, then I don't know what scares you.[/PIE]


---of course , i don't want to go to any hot place :statisfie :D

I just don't believe that because of listening to Islamic songs of Yusuf Islam , Sami Yusuf , Dawud Ali.....i will be thrown in to fire.....it sounds totally absurd. When i hear the songs of veil , Life returns , what did i do today , Jannah , my mother or Tala Al Badru or life of the last Prophet (P) , these songs /biography of the Prophet remind me of Allah , His Prophet .

I feel grateful that Allah brought Yusuf & Dawud to Islam & they are trying to spread the message of Islam by using their beautiful God gifted voices.

I really don't understand how Allah can punish them for their attempt to do that...........when Yusuf teaches kids A is for Allah , B for Bismillah , when Dawaud tries to remove the misconception on veil & encourgaes Muslimahs to practise it ...... how that can be a sin ?


If Quran totally forbids Music/songs , then why Prophet allowed people of Madina to sang song or asked someone why any singer did not go with a girl to her in-laws home ? Is there any verse in Quran that says , except Daff , other instruments are totally haraam ?

Personally i think TV is very dangerous for kids & adults , too. I don't think ,there is any thread on bad effects of TV but just see how many threads we have on songs/music .

In few days , we won't be able to walk on street ( because these are not like the streets of holy Macca & Madina), travel by plane or use computer ...someone surely issue fatwas that these are all
Haraam :scared: :ooh:

[barney]

I note from the sticky on this board that Music is Haram and two authentic hadiths are given to support this.


It is reported by Al-Haakim in his Mustadrak(*84) that the Prophet (upon whom be peace and blessings) took the hand of the companion, AbdurRahmaan bin 'Owf, and they proceeded to visit the Prophet's ailing son, Ibraheem. They found the infant in the throes of death, so the Prophet took him to his breast and held him until his spirit left him. Then he put the child down and wept, whereupon Abdur-Rahmaan asked in astonishment, "You are weeping, Oh Messenger of Allah, while you prohibit crying!?" The following is the Prophet's reply:


"Verily, I did not prohibit weeping [per se] but rather, I forbade two voices [sowtayn] which are imbecilic [ahmaq] and sinfully shameless [faajir]: one, a voice [singing] to the accompaniment of musical amusement [lahw] and Satan's [wind] instruments; the other, a voice [wailing] due to some calamity, accompanied by striking of the face and tearing of garments. But this [weeping of mine] stems from compassion, and whosoever does not show compassion will not receive it."

THE NARRATION OF ABU BAKR ASH-SHAAFI'EE:


Anas bin Maalik related from the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) that "two cursed sounds are that of the [wind] instrument [mizmaar](*87) played on the occasion of joy and grace, and woeful wailing upon the occurrence of adversity."(*88)

I do not doubt that the prophet said it, I just wondered why specifically wind instruments? Is there any scholarly work been done to suggest Why?

[snakelegs]

Personally i think TV is very dangerous for kids & adults , too. I don't think ,there is any thread on bad effects of TV but just see how many threads we have on songs/music .

excellent question - one i've wondered about for ages!

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ,


I have heard that Yusuf al-Qaradawi is most learned Islamic scholar of this time. Here is a link of his book. I will Insha Allah try to read it.

I recommended u to read this book....i m sure , it will give us a good chance to more about Islam.


The Lawful and Prohibited in Islam
by Yusuf al-Qaradawi

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/Q_LP

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

But the Ahadith and the verses do not change over time sister. So if a person decides to permit singing using a scholar that held singing permissible (Ibn Hazm) and just using one portion of his words and not the rest then he is only misleading the people even though that may not be his intention. A scholar's or a Mujtahid's opinion cannot take the weight of the evidence itself, no matter of what calibre he is.

Ibn Hazm said, as I posted before:

"It is forbidden for the Muslim to enjoy the song-like voice of a woman who is foreign to him."

Keep in mind this is coming from a scholar who himself allowed listening to singing. But never did he - nor any of the Muslim scholars of or before his time - permit the enjoyment of the voice of a foreign woman, such as in the case of al-Qaradawi.

Really, this thread has gone on long enough. Anyone who's up for some reading, can read through the book 'Music and Singing in the Light of the Qur'an and Sunnah' by Abu Musa Al Kanadi, wherein are the proofs from the Qur'an, Ahadith, the Companions and the Salaf, and the four Imams and the ones after them. I think that should be more than sufficient for anyone who is sincerly seeking the truth of the matter:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...an-sunnah.html

:threadclo

:w: