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View Full Version : Is it Muslims vs. Zionists or Muslims vs. Jews?



snakelegs
02-05-2007, 04:36 AM
this is from another thread. i feel it is important enough to rate a thread all of its own.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamway
Our Struggle with the Jews is a Struggle for Existence, Not a Struggle for Land

Source: Al-Asaalah Magazine, Issue 30 (pg. 5-6)
Translator: abu maryam
Produced by: al-manhaj.com

The enemies of Islaam and the ignorant people that follow them are trying to portray the reality of the struggle against the Jews as a struggle for land and borders, and as a problem of refugees and water ports. And they make it seem as if it is possible to end this struggle with peaceful coexistence and by compensating the refugees, rectifying their condition of living, dispersing them throughout the land and establishing a weak petty secular state, which will live under the Zionist power and which will serve as a shield for the Zionist state (against their surrounding enemies).
But all of these people don’t realize that our struggle with the Jews goes way back, ever since the first Islamic state was established in Madeenah with Muhammad (SAWS) the Messenger sent to all of mankind, as its leader. Allaah has related to us in the Qur'ân, the reality of the Jews’ malice and hatred for the ummah of Islaam and Tawheed, as he says: “You will surely find that the people with the most enmity towards the believers are the Jews and the polytheists.”
[Surah Al-Maa’idah: 82]

So see how Allaah has placed the Jews before the polytheists in their hatred and enmity (towards the Muslims). Even though they are united in their disbelief, they differ (from others) in their (immense) hatred towards the ummah of Muhammad (SAWS), as Allaah says: “The Jews and the Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their religion (way).” [Surah Al-Baqarah: 120]

And ever since the first hour in which the Muslims let the beautiful fragrance of Islaam flow through it (Madeenah), the Jews were there showing enmity to the Muslims and their Prophet. So our Prophet, Muhammad (SAWS), was not safe from the harm of the Jews amongst their ranks. They tried to kill him three times. One time, they tried to kill him by putting a heavy rock on his head. Another time was when they placed poison in the forearm of a goat (for him to eat). And a third case was when the Jewish boy, Lubaid bin al-A’asam, may Allaah’s curse be on him, put a magic spell on him.

And lo, there are the Americans, supplying the Jews with the most ferocious and harmful weapons of destruction, so that they can kill the Muslim children, women and elderly people of Palestine. And they preoccupied the world with their American elections for the purpose of drawing attention away from the Jewish massacre and butchering of the Muslim people of Palestine.

And lo! There are the British, who supply the Jews with loud and explosive ammunition, which when used result in horrific deaths and everlasting handicapping for the youth of Palestine. So this ummah (nation of Palestinians) are open prey - whether young or old, infant or woman – in the hands of the Jews and their supporters.

And lo! There are the supporters of the Jews, who preoccupy the ummah and draw their attention away from the casualties suffered by the Muslim people of Palestine. And they make the people blind to the crimes committed by the Jews by broadcasting the Olympics and other worthless programs, which only make the ummah numb and put it to sleep!

Don’t the Muslims know that our struggle against the Jews is a struggle of Creed and a struggle of Religious livelihood? Don’t they realize that it is a struggle of culture, a struggle to remain in existence, a struggle of identification? Wasn’t it the Jews who set fire to Al-Masjid Al-Aqsaa? Weren’t they the ones who initiated archeological excavations under it, (ruining its foundation), so that afterward it can crumble on its own?? Weren’t they the ones who killed Muslims while they were prostrating in the month of Ramadaan in Masjid Al-Khaleel?!? Did they not cut open the stomachs of pregnant women, murder babies and set fire to the pastures and the farmlands!? Wasn’t it the Jews who transformed the masjids of Palestine into bars of alcohol and gambling?! Did they not turn them into compounds for animals and garbage dumps?!?

Then after all of this, it is said: “Our struggle against the Jews is a struggle for land and a border dispute!!” And the desired solution is to establish a petty Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, so that the followers of the three monotheistic – or so they claim - faiths can live in it. Are these people ignorant of the fact that the only Religion acceptable in the sight of Allaah is Islaam? Or are they ignorant of the fact that Ibraheem is free and absolved from the polytheism and idolatry the Jews and Christians are upon. “Ibraaheem was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but rather he was Haneef (worshipping Allaah alone), a Muslim. And he was not from the polytheists.” [Surah Aali ‘Imraan: 67]

Indeed, the only solution, which the Jews will understand, is Jihaad – done with its proper conditions – to raise high the Word of Allaah. The Jews do not want peace, rather they only want that this ummah surrender and submit itself to them, and that it bow and debase itself to them. And they want that it wipe out the word Jihaad from its vocabulary! They want them to become slaves, employees and laborers for them, having the right to beat them with their shoes and lash them with their whips whenever they feel like it!

Our real struggle with the Jews will not end by setting up a withered state that doesn’t raise the banner of Islaam nor establishes the Laws of Allaah. How can it come to an end when the Muslim recites in his prayer seventeen times - day and night – “And do not make us from those who gained Your Anger nor from those who went astray.” [Surah Al-Faatihah: 7]

Those who “gained Your Anger” are the Jews and those who “went astray” are the Christians, according to the unanimous agreement of the Tafseer scholars, and this is so until the Day of Judgement.

So the decisive battle in which the Jews will come to an end will most assuredly come to pass – it is inevitable. It will be a battle of Faith and a battle of servitude to Allaah. The Prophet (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “You will indeed fight against the Jews and you will kill them to the point where the rock and the tree will say: ‘O Muslim! O ‘Abdullaah (slave of Allaah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him.’ Except for al-Gharqad for it is from the trees of the Jews.”

This is a true promise from the one who doesn’t speak from his own desire (Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), which confirms the true nature of our struggle against the Jews, unlike what the misguided and misguiding media is portraying.
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
islamway,
if the article you posted is true, apparently i was wrong. i thought the conflict was against the political movement of zionism and not against the jews.
if the article is true, then no matter what israel did - it wouldn't make any difference - the hate wouldn't go away.
does this mean that the zionists who try to label muslim anger as "antisemitic" to manipulate and negate criticism are not just doing a clever manipulation - but they're right?
oy.
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IzakHalevas
02-11-2007, 03:19 AM
No answer. Can anyone step up and tell me to my face if I am what you call an "ape" or "pig" in your eyes?
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cihad
02-11-2007, 09:33 AM
its islam versus the oppressors...whatever they may be
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Malaikah
02-11-2007, 09:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cihad
its islam versus the oppressors...whatever they may be
:sl:

Exactly! That article is so extremely generalised and draws baseless conclusions! The person seems to be forgetting that Jews have rights in Islam and you can't just treat them however you want if they were not hostile towards the Muslims.

Even with the examples mentioned of the Jews during the prophet's (pbuh) time, they themselves transgressed against the prophet, they made themselves enemies to the Muslims! And there were other Jewish tribes who maintained good ties with the Muslims and cooperated with them and gained the protection of the Islamic state against any outside forces!

format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
No answer. Can anyone step up and tell me to my face if I am what you call an "ape" or "pig" in your eyes?
If anyone did so that would be very ignorant of them.

The reality of the matter is that the Jews who were turned into apes and swines received that punishment because they were major sinners NOT because they were Jewish! Not to mention that they were considered 'Muslims"!
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Malaikah
02-11-2007, 09:56 AM
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Sir, we appreciate your question and your efforts in pursuit of knowledge and that is what everybody, irrespective of his religion, is required to do.

As regards your question, "Anti-Semitism means condemning and hating a people because of their Semitic race. Anti-Semitism is bigotry and racism. It is wrong and it has no place in Islam or in Islamic scripture. The Qur'ân does not allow hate against any race, nationality or color. Throughout the history of Islam, Muslims have never used passages from the Qur'ân to justify acts of anti-Semitism. The ill-effects of racism, including ethnic cleaning, genocide and Holocaust, which has been suffered by Jews and non-Jews alike over the past several centuries, has never been done under the banner of any passages from the Qur'ân. Jews were among the earliest converts to Islam (in Madinah) and, throughout the Middle Ages, Jews found sanctuary to practice their own religion under Islamic rule. It is truly disappointing and naive to ignore 1430 years of history and learned discourse on the Qur'ân and argue that the current political situation in the Middle East has its roots in passages from the Qur'ân.

As with all scriptures, passages from the Qur'ân must be read within the proper context. The Qur'ân was not just revealed to Muslims, but to all people, including Jews and Christians. Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, was in the line of previous Prophets of Allah, including Prophets Abraham, Moses and Jesus, and the Qur'ân is in the line of previous scriptures revealed by Allah. The Qur'ân does not condemn the Semitic race and, in fact, accords Jews a special status given their shared Prophetic traditions with Islam.

The Qur'ân instead criticizes those Jews who turned away from Allah's authentic message and admonishes those who scorned and ridiculed Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, and the message of the Qur'ân.
Such criticism is similar to the criticism against Jews found in other scriptures, including the Bible, and should be taken by all people as a reminder and warning against forsaking and straying from the authentic message of Allah. Such specific criticism has never been interpreted by learned scholars of the Qur'ân to incite hatred against all Jewish people and should not be confused with anti-Semitism.

The Qur'an speaks extensively about the Children of Israel (Banû Isrâ'îl) and recognizes that the Jews (a-Yahûd) are, according to lineage, descendants of Prophet Abraham through his son Isaac and grandson Jacob, peace and blessings be upon them all. They were chosen by Allah for a mission: "And We chose them, purposely, above (all) creatures." [Sûrah al-Dukhân: 32] Allah raised among them many Prophets and bestowed upon them what He had not bestowed upon many others: "And (remember) when Musa said unto his people: O my people ! Remember Allah's favor unto you, how He placed among you Prophets, and He made you Kings, and gave you that (which) He gave not to any (other) of (His) creatures." [Sûrah al-Mâ'idah: 20] He, also, exalted them over other nations of the earth and granted them many favors: "O Children of Israel! Remember My favor wherewith I favored you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures." [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 47]

Passages from the Qur'an which criticize the Jews fall primarily into two categories:

First, the Qur'an speaks of how some of the Children of Israel turned away from the authentic message revealed to them. They disobeyed Allah and showed ingratitude for Allah's favors on them. They lost the original Tawrat (Torah) and introduced their own words and interpretations in the divine books. They became arrogant and claimed that they were Allah's children and went about vaunting their position as His most chosen people [Sûrah al-Nisâ':155; Sûrah al-Mâ'idah:13,18]. They also brazenly committed sins and their rabbis and priests did not stop them from doing so [Sûrah all-Mâ'idah: 63, 79). Allah raised His Prophet, Jesus, among them so that he might show them several miracles and thereby guide them to the right path, but they rejected him, attempted to kill him, and even claimed that they had indeed killed him although they had not been able to do so [Sûrah al-Nisa': 157-158]. Allah specifically addresses the Children of Israel in many of these passages. This is important, because it shows that the message of the Qur'an was intended for all people, including the Jews, and the criticism was directed against a specific group of people for their specific actions. This criticism should be distinguished from cursing people merely because of their race.

Second, the criticism of the Jews which is found in passages including those you referenced from [Sûrah al-Mâ'idah: 60-64] . These verses criticize the Jews and Christians who ridiculed Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, and his message. They made mockery and sport of his call to prayer, and they rebuked him even though he was calling them to believe in what Allah revealed to him and to what was revealed before him through their own Prophets. They became spiteful towards him and rejected him since he did not belong to the Children of Israel [Sûrah al-Baqarah:109; Sûrah al-Nisâ': 54].

The Qur'ân specifically notes that such criticism is not directed against all Jews. Even when the Qur'ân criticizes the Jews it always notes that "among them there are some..." who are pious and righteous people, who command what is right and forbid what is wrong and try to excel each other in acts of charity and goodness. The Qur'ân says that such people are assured that whatever good they will do will not be denied them and they shall receive their reward with Allah [Sûrah Âl `Imrân: 113-115].

Taking a few passages from the Qur'an out of proper historical and textual context will not give a proper understanding of the religious scripture. This is not only true of the Qur'ân but also of the Bible. Many passages from the Bible also criticize the Jews. Read the Hebrew Bible, particularly Micah (Chapter 3:1-12) and Hosea (Chapter 8:1-14), in which these Prophets condemned the Jews "who abhor justice and pervert all equity" and who "build Zion with blood and Jerusalem with wrong." These Prophets cursed Israel as a "useless vessel among nations," and called for the curse of Allah to "send a fire upon [Judah's] cities" and to make Jerusalem "a heap of ruins." Similarly, in the Book of Deuteronomy (Verses 16-68), Moses (Musa) warns the Jews that Allah "will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me" (28: 20). In Matthew (Chapter 23:13-39), Jesus (`Isa) repeatedly admonishes the Jews for their hypocrisy and injustice, and condemns them for the killing of past Prophets. Jesus says, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the Prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate." It would indeed seem strange if, based on these passages, one were to argue that the Bible and the Hebrew Prophets were anti-Semitic and called for the destruction of present-day Israel. Yet, questioning passages from the Qur'an as anti-Semitic is similarly without merit.

Allah Almighty knows best.

http://islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?ca...sub_cat_id=497
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alidagreat
02-11-2007, 09:57 AM
This is talking about killing an entire race of people...the Jews were chosen by You are God. Do not forget that they were the original people of the book just like the Christians were before they changed it. You want to kill people that God tried to save to spread ISLAM and help people?

This is not Islam what they are talking about. This is finding quotes in the Qu'ran and turning it into a war. Allah warned us about the oppression that would face the Muslims so that they could try to be careful of such people. Not so that we should start a war and go against all the teachings that Islam has taught us.

Islam was sent down to stop the sins and bloodshed that was happening on earth. It was not sent down to obliterate Jews and Christians.

This is the exact reason why Muslims are portrayed in such bad terms in the western world and continuing this type of thought process will lead Muslims to be hated by everyone in the world instead of accepted and respected.

Also just a quick fact in case anyone over looked it. No one knows who is going to heaven except for Allah. Heaven maybe full of Jews Christians and Muslims...so who gives anyone the right to kill people based on their faith when no one except Allah knows if they believe the truth or not?
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Malaikah
02-11-2007, 10:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by alidagreat
No one knows who is going to heaven except for Allah. Heaven maybe full of Jews Christians and Muslims...
Hadith - Saheeh Muslim, vol. 1, no. 284

The prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:

"By Him (Allah) in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, there is none from amongst the Jews and the Christians (of these present nations) who hears about me and then dies without believing in the Message with which I have been sent (i.e. tawheed), but he will be from the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire."
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alidagreat
02-11-2007, 10:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Hadith - Saheeh Muslim, vol. 1, no. 284

The prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:

"By Him (Allah) in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, there is none from amongst the Jews and the Christians (of these present nations) who hears about me and then dies without believing in the Message with which I have been sent (i.e. tawheed), but he will be from the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire."

So is this statement saying that all the Jews who followed Moses and his original teaching are going to hell? Are all the Christians who believe in one God and believe that Jesus is just a prophet are going to hell?

I don't think so...And I know that I have read it in the Qu'ran that it says that only Allah knows who goes to heaven. I am just really tired now and I cant find it. I think in Surat Al Baqarah.

Oh well...It's there i know it!!:D :D
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Malaikah
02-11-2007, 10:20 AM
:sl:

Firstly, they were not Jews or Christians- they were Muslims.

Secondly, that was a hadith of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, he said it himself.

Thirdly- the hadith is referring to Jews and Christians of this time who have heard of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, not in the times of previous prophets.

Take care.
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snakelegs
02-11-2007, 10:23 AM
this article makes it appear that muslim anger at jews is not just because of zionism (a political movement) but an age-old antagonism against jews.
when israel says muslims are antisemitic when they raise (often deserved) criticism of israel, maybe they are right. (i thought it was just a clever trick).
i always thought the problem was with zionists, not jews - that it was strictly political. but according to this, it goes way back.
i hadn't read anything like this before.
i've seen on some islamic websites there is definitely antisemitism (classical european style, even) - maybe this article explains it and it is more widespread an deeper than i thought.
if these are common attitudes among muslims, the hope for peace in the mideast is a lot dimmer than i thought.
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Malaikah
02-11-2007, 10:28 AM
^Did you read the article I posted? :?

Just because there was a group of Jews who were self-proclaimed enemies to the Muslims during Muhammad's (peace and blessings be upon him) , doesn't mean all Jews are enemies, which was proven by the fact that a group of Jews actually received protection from the Islamic state during the prophets time!
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IzakHalevas
02-11-2007, 04:04 PM
Good to know.
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Keltoi
02-11-2007, 05:09 PM
I think it is somewhat similar to the "all Muslims are terrorists" mindset, and "all Jews are Zionists". Eventually people stop caring about the semantics. One becomes "the enemy".
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snakelegs
02-11-2007, 08:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
^Did you read the article I posted? :?

Just because there was a group of Jews who were self-proclaimed enemies to the Muslims during Muhammad's (peace and blessings be upon him) , doesn't mean all Jews are enemies, which was proven by the fact that a group of Jews actually received protection from the Islamic state during the prophets time!
yes, i did and it just confirms what i've always thought. i know historically jews fared much much better under muslims than under christians. i don't believe that islam encourages any kind of racism - in fact, i know that it condemns it.
however, an article like the one at the beginning of this thread is discouraging and so is seeing anti-jew propaganda on islamic websites.
zionism is a poltical movement and i believe a worthy target of criticism. but too often the line gets blurred.
the article is saying that the grievances are against jews, they go way back, and will only end when jews are wiped out. so it goes way beyond attacking zionism.
just some things from the article:

Allaah has related to us in the Qur'ân, the reality of the Jews’ malice and hatred for the ummah of Islaam and Tawheed, as he says: “You will surely find that the people with the most enmity towards the believers are the Jews and the polytheists.”
[Surah Al-Maa’idah: 82]
So see how Allaah has placed the Jews before the polytheists in their hatred and enmity (towards the Muslims).
And ever since the first hour in which the Muslims let the beautiful fragrance of Islaam flow through it (Madeenah), the Jews were there showing enmity to the Muslims and their Prophet.
Don’t the Muslims know that our struggle against the Jews is a struggle of Creed and a struggle of Religious livelihood?
Indeed, the only solution, which the Jews will understand, is Jihaad – done with its proper conditions – to raise high the Word of Allaah.
So the decisive battle in which the Jews will come to an end will most assuredly come to pass – it is inevitable.
Reply

arabiyyah
02-11-2007, 08:38 PM
sadly some of our bros hate jews like this guy:

format_quote Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari
as far as im concerned i dont say this to sound mean, i think all jews from muslim countries shud be deported since they are the enemy from within, most of them support israel, have a hidden hate for muslims, and wud kill us all when ever the time was right, say the idf invaded, they wud have no hesitation to join the idf, do u know the idf has several yemeni and arab soldiers? including iranis, so again the jews in our country all have a hidden love for israel and a hidden hate for arabs and muslims, which is exposed as soon as they land in israel.

BUT WE ALL DO NOT HATE JEWS AD THIS GUY IS A MINORITY! he hates all on accoun of a few which is really dumb.
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Muezzin
02-11-2007, 08:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
No answer. Can anyone step up and tell me to my face if I am what you call an "ape" or "pig" in your eyes?
That depends on what sort of Halloween costume you're wearing. You struck me more as a Ninja Turtle sorta guy. :p

And Muslims who think Islam teaches anti-Semitism are deeply confused and are seeking to justify their own prejudice and racism.
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