Hello people

[Wolodyjowski]

Hello to everyone.

I am new here.I would like to say something about me.I am 21 years old, i study history.I am from Poland.
Well, now i should tell why i am on this forum. And of course what i think about islam.
Ok then. Through most of my life islam was some oriental far away religion, just like buddhism or hinduism. I knew this religion only from historical books from my school. Of course it was changed bu the event that shocked so many people all over the world. It was terroristic attack on America in 9-11-2001.
I still remember that day when it hapenned.And i also remember well when tv showed Arabs in Palestina dancing and enjoying just few hours after the attack.
Just after the attack which was commited by Osama ben Laden, George W.Bush said that islam is religion of peace. After that islamc terrorists comitted suicidal attacks in Madrit, then in London, dutch director Theo van Ghogh was killed by fanatical muslims in Holland. We all saw how muslim youths burned french suburbs.
I didnt belive president Bush that islam is religion of peace. Although that almost every european politician in west reminds us this very often.
Thanks to internet i found more informations about conflicts where islam is involved.
Muslims often claim that islamic terrorism is caused by the situaion in Palestina,in Iraq or in Chechenia.
But its is not truth.
Islamists kill people every day in southern Thailand.
There is no single day without human killed by islamists in India.
Similar situation happens in Philipinnes, in Algeria, in Pakistan, in Indonesia, in Sudan......
I really dont know what is in islam that it turns such different people like Indonesians, Arabs or Nigerians into barbarians.
I also wonder, if islam has nothing to do with terrorism so why there are no Palestinians christian terrorists?
In arabic countries there live about 20 million christians, and why only muslim Arabs become terrorists, not christians?
Muslims living in west complain that they feel persectued, but for me it is rather a bad joke. Dont muslims know how are christians treated in muslim world? For example lets see the purest islamic countrie- Saudic Arabia.There is no even a single churche.For owning a Bible man go to prison and he is tortured.In Egypt sometimes happens that christian girls are kidnapped by muslims and then forced to marry them.In Indonesia some time ago 3 christian girls were beheaded while they were going back from school.In ever muslim country it is forbidden to convert to christianity, while muslim countries spend millions of dollars to build mosques and encourage to convert in whole west.Isnt this hypocrysy?
What if i suggested that all muslims living in west are treated like christians in Saudic Arabia? Would you be happy to live like that?
Muslims claim also that only minority of them are terrorists, so i ask why the majority of peaceful muslims can't stop the tiny minority of terrorists?

[islamway]

Hello to everyone.

I am new here.I would like to say something about me.I am 21 years old, i study history.I am from Poland.
Well, now i should tell why i am on this forum. And of course what i think about islam.
Ok then. Through most of my life islam was some oriental far away religion, just like buddhism or hinduism. I knew this religion only from historical books from my school. Of course it was changed bu the event that shocked so many people all over the world. It was terroristic attack on America in 9-11-2001.
I still remember that day when it hapenned.And i also remember well when tv showed Arabs in Palestina dancing and enjoying just few hours after the attack.
Just after the attack which was commited by Osama ben Laden, George W.Bush said that islam is religion of peace. After that islamc terrorists comitted suicidal attacks in Madrit, then in London, dutch director Theo van Ghogh was killed by fanatical muslims in Holland. We all saw how muslim youths burned french suburbs.
I didnt belive president Bush that islam is religion of peace. Although that almost every european politician in west reminds us this very often.
Thanks to internet i found more informations about conflicts where islam is involved.
Muslims often claim that islamic terrorism is caused by the situaion in Palestina,in Iraq or in Chechenia.
But its is not truth.
Islamists kill people every day in southern Thailand.
There is no single day without human killed by islamists in India.
Similar situation happens in Philipinnes, in Algeria, in Pakistan, in Indonesia, in Sudan......
I really dont know what is in islam that it turns such different people like Indonesians, Arabs or Nigerians into barbarians.
I also wonder, if islam has nothing to do with terrorism so why there are no Palestinians christian terrorists?
In arabic countries there live about 20 million christians, and why only muslim Arabs become terrorists, not christians?
Muslims living in west complain that they feel persectued, but for me it is rather a bad joke. Dont muslims know how are christians treated in muslim world? For example lets see the purest islamic countrie- Saudic Arabia.There is no even a single churche.For owning a Bible man go to prison and he is tortured.In Egypt sometimes happens that christian girls are kidnapped by muslims and then forced to marry them.In Indonesia some time ago 3 christian girls were beheaded while they were going back from school.In ever muslim country it is forbidden to convert to christianity, while muslim countries spend millions of dollars to build mosques and encourage to convert in whole west.Isnt this hypocrysy?
What if i suggested that all muslims living in west are treated like christians in Saudic Arabia? Would you be happy to live like that?
Muslims claim also that only minority of them are terrorists, so i ask why the majority of peaceful muslims can't stop the tiny minority of terrorists?

can you as peaceful christian stop bush from waging wars?

[- Qatada -]

Hey Wolodyjowski. :)


Thankyou for coming to the forum to find out the truth.


First of all, islaam is a religion of justice and it also calls for peace. What you see on the media isn't what islaam is. Let's just say that the that christians don't always follow the bible in the correct way, the same can be said about muslims. We're not all perfect. :)


Just to see the similarities between islaam and christianity, please check this link:

http://www.beconvinced.com/en/main.p...owcat&catid=06


And to check about the misconceptions on terrorism and other things you see on the media, please check this:

http://www.beconvinced.com/en/main.p...owcat&catid=10



I hope you benefit from them and we look forward to your questions! :)



Peace.

[snakelegs]

hi and welcome to the forum.
yep - there are some scary muslims out there, but most are just as boring as you and me.

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[Wolodyjowski]

But still you didnt answer me- there are 20 millions christians in arab world, why only muslim arabs become terrorists?

[Wolodyjowski]

And one question more- would you like to be treated in west just like christians are treated in Saudic Arabia?

[Goku]

Hello Wolodyjowski, welcome to the forum.

Islam teaches us that no soul can bear the burden of another. Islam encourages us to do good deeds and have Faith, which is the path to Heaven. Islam is a religion which calls for justice, what the minority do, they as well as everyone else who do wrong will be called to justice on Judgement Day if not in this life. There are churches in the Arab world if not in Saudi Arabia. In fact, the Government of Dubai in recent years donated land to 4 Christian groups and a hindu group so they could build their churches and temple respectively.

[Wolodyjowski]

Hey Wolodyjowski. :)


Thankyou for coming to the forum to find out the truth.


First of all, islaam is a religion of justice and it also calls for peace. What you see on the media isn't what islaam is. Let's just say that the that christians don't always follow the bible in the correct way, the same can be said about muslims. We're not all perfect. :)


Just to see the similarities between islaam and christianity, please check this link:

http://www.beconvinced.com/en/main.p...owcat&catid=06


And to check about the misconceptions on terrorism and other things you see on the media, please check this:

http://www.beconvinced.com/en/main.p...owcat&catid=10



I hope you benefit from them and we look forward to your questions! :)



Peace.

But actually those christians who make crimes or bad things they dont hold Bibles in their hands and dont shout "Jesus akbar".

[Wolodyjowski]

hi and welcome to the forum.
yep - there are some scary muslims out there, but most are just as boring as you and me.

Hi and welcome:)

[Wolodyjowski]

Hello Wolodyjowski, welcome to the forum.

Islam teaches us that no soul can bear the burden of another. Islam encourages us to do good deeds and have Faith, which is the path to Heaven. Islam is a religion which calls for justice, what the minority do, they as well as everyone else who do wrong will be called to justice on Judgement Day if not in this life. There are churches in the Arab world if not in Saudi Arabia. In fact, the Government of Dubai in recent years donated land to 4 Christian groups and a hindu group so they could build their churches and temple respectively.

Welcome Goku:)

[- Qatada -]

But still you didnt answer me- there are 20 millions christians in arab world, why only muslim arabs become terrorists?

Maybe the media labels every arab as muslim? Or what if the media only tries portraying muslims as terrorists so good people like you believe that? :)


Under islamic law, the christians have a right to stay in the islamic state and if they pay a small tax [jizya], the same way the muslims pay the tax of zakaah - then their blood and honor is protected. If anyone tries to harm any non muslim - they have the right to justice and protection. They don't even have to fight to protect the state. Have you ever seen this being mentioned on the media? :)


Most of the muslim countries in the world don't apply the islamic law, which is sad. But the christians don't either. If they were to apply the islamic law, you would see the good come out of that.



Islaam is a religion of Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him.) To worship One God, Alone and to obey Him so we are successful in this life and the hereafter. We believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) was a respected messenger of God, and not His son, because God is too great to have children. Jesus came with the same message as all the other prophets (including Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) of calling to the worship of God Alone. We should do good to gain God's Mercy, and after we die - to Him we will be brought back to be judged on all that we did. Those who did good to please God will be rewarded by Him, and those who rejected God, His signs and Messengers - they will be punished.

That was the same message of all the prophets. And anyone who does evil in the name of God, is not doing the right thing.



Peace. :)

[Sabbir_1]

Welcome

And i also remember well when tv showed Arabs in Palestina dancing and enjoying just few hours after the attack.

That was a fake, them dancing in the video happened before 9/11..

I really dont know what is in islam that it turns such different people like Indonesians, Arabs or Nigerians into barbarians.

I dont know what it is in christianity, that it turns people like bush and blair into babarians too,u probably didnt hear george bush say god told him to go to war...

In Egypt sometimes happens that christian girls are kidnapped by muslims and then forced to marry them.In Indonesia some time ago 3 christian girls were beheaded while they were going back from school.

never heard of that story before.. dont believe everything you read.. if its true, where is ur source.

would you like to be treated in west just like christians are treated in Saudic Arabia?

And how are christians treated in saudi arabia, , most christians are respected better than arabs in saudi arabia..

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Hi and welcome to forum Woody.
As for some of the things you mentioned:
Muslims are not the only ones committing harm to others. The media chooses to focus on Muslims more and portray our beautiful faith as barbaric.
There is no shortage of Churches in the Arab Muslim World.
Places like Saudi Arabia have generation and generations of Christians.
If it was so brutal for them, why would old communities exist? How many old generation of Muslims exist in the Western world?
If you have any specific answers, please ask and we will answer to the best of our ability.
See you.
Peace :)

[Wolodyjowski]

never heard of that story before.. dont believe everything you read.. if its true, where is ur source.


Three Indonesian girls beheaded
By Tim Johnston
BBC News, Jakarta

Three girls have been beheaded and another badly injured as they walked to a Christian school in Indonesia.

They were walking through a cocoa plantation near the city of Poso in central Sulawesi province when they were attacked.

This is an area that has a long history of religious violence between Muslims and Christians.

A government-brokered truce has only partially succeeded in reducing the number of incidents in recent years.

Police say the heads were found some distance from the bodies.

It is unclear what was behind the attack, but the girls attended a private Christian school and one of the heads was left outside a church leading to speculation that it might have had a religious motive.

Islamic state

Central Sulawesi and Poso in particular was the scene of bitter fighting between Muslims and Christians in 2001 and 2002.


Muslim gang members carry makeshift rifles as Christian homes burn in sectarian violence-wracked Poso, December 2001

Flashpoints: Sulawesi

More than 1,000 people were killed before a government-brokered truce.

Although the violence has been subdued, it has never gone away completely.

A bomb in May in the nearby town of Tentena, which is predominantly Christian, killed 22 people and injured over 30.

The fighting four years ago drew Islamic militants from all over Indonesia and many have never gone home.

Analysts say the militants have targeted central Sulawesi and believe that it could be turned into the foundation stone of an Islamic state.

The analysts have warned that the violence could resurface at any time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm





About kidnapped christian girls read here-


http://www.kidnappedchristiangirls.org/

[Wolodyjowski]

Hi and welcome to forum Woody.
As for some of the things you mentioned:
Muslims are not the only ones committing harm to others. The media chooses to focus on Muslims more and portray our beautiful faith as barbaric.
There is no shortage of Churches in the Arab Muslim World.
Places like Saudi Arabia have generation and generations of Christians.
If it was so brutal for them, why would old communities exist? How many old generation of Muslims exist in the Western world?
If you have any specific answers, please ask and we will answer to the best of our ability.
See you.
Peace :)

In Saudic Arabia it is forbidden to own a Bible.If islamic police found you with a Bible you are going to prison.There is no single churche in Saudic Arabia.Christians can pray only in their homes. Is this justice in your opinion?

[Wolodyjowski]

Hi and welcome to forum Woody.
As for some of the things you mentioned:
Muslims are not the only ones committing harm to others. The media chooses to focus on Muslims more and portray our beautiful faith as barbaric.
There is no shortage of Churches in the Arab Muslim World.
Places like Saudi Arabia have generation and generations of Christians.
If it was so brutal for them, why would old communities exist? How many old generation of Muslims exist in the Western world?
If you have any specific answers, please ask and we will answer to the best of our ability.
See you.
Peace :)

Saudi Arabia Will Never Permit Christian Churches, Top Official Vows

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, March 14, 2003 (AP) -- As Islam's birthplace, Saudi Arabia will never allow churches to be built, said Prince Sultan, the defense minister.

"This country was the launch pad for the prophecy and the message and nothing can contradict this, even if we lose our necks," Sultan said in comments reported by Saudi newspapers.

Those who want to establish churches "are, unfortunately, fanatics," Sultan said. "There are no churches - not in the past, the present or future. ... Whoever said this must shut up and be ashamed."

Islam's founding Prophet Muhammad allowed Arabia's Christian churches to continue operating and many Muslim nations follow his example.

The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, an independent federal agency, complained when Saudi Arabia was omitted on the new State Department list of countries that severely limit religious freedom.

Sultan noted that resident foreigners are allowed to worship privately in their homes.


http://www.orthodoxnews.netfirms.com...bia%20Will.htm

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Thats hardly a source bro. Everything on it is against Islam and Muslims in general. All misconceptions. How about an unbiased source.

[Wolodyjowski]

Problems for Christians in Saudi Arabia.
Problems and needs

The Church in Saudi Arabia is living under the most difficult circumstances. The regime has declared the entire Arabian peninsula 'haram,' forbidden to all other religions, and it is enforcing this prohibition strictly. Freedom of religion does not exist. The Government prohibits the practice of other religions, be it in public or in private. Saudi law states that no churches may be built north of Yemen and south of Jordan. It is impossible for foreigners to visit Saudi Arabia as tourists. One can only enter the kingdom on business visa (i.e. on the invitation of a company already active in the country), or as a Muslim pilgrim.

The survey of problems and needs of the Church in Saudi Arabia is completely determined by the total prohibition of any religion but Islam.



http://sb.od.org/index.php?supp_page=saudi_02

[Wolodyjowski]

250 Million Christians Will Be Persecuted in 2007
250 million Christians worldwide will face persecution in 2007, simply for following Jesus Christ, according to persecution watchdog, Release International. In particular it was found that persecution is growing the fastest in the Muslim world.
by Daniel Blake
Posted: Tuesday, January 2, 2007, 9:21 (GMT)
Font Scale:A A A

250 million Christians worldwide will face persecution in 2007, simply for following Jesus Christ, according to persecution watchdog, Release International. In particular it was found that persecution is growing the fastest in the Muslim world.

Release has found that most persecution takes place in four distinct ‘zones’: those of Islam, Communism, Hinduism and Buddhism. But persecution is growing fastest of all in the Muslim world.

Governments in even moderate Muslim countries often fail to safeguard the rights of their Christian minorities, explains RI. Abuses suffered by Christians include kidnapping, forced conversion, imprisonment, church destruction, torture, rape and execution.

One of the world’s worst abusers of religious freedom is Saudi Arabia, guardian of Islam’s holiest sites Mecca and Medina. Saudi Arabia forbids all other religions. A Muslim found ‘guilty’ of converting to Christianity could face the death sentence for apostasy. And anyone who leads a Muslim to Christ faces jail, expulsion or execution.

“There’s a conspiracy of silence around Saudi,” says Release International’s CEO Andy Dipper, “probably because the West wants their oil and their money. But this is a government that hands out the death sentence for its own citizens who want nothing more than the freedom to choose their own faith. And while Saudi bans all Christian literature, it spends billions of dollars each year propagating Islam around the world.”

But some of the most violent persecution in the Muslim world is beyond government control. Since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the world has been made dramatically aware of extremist Islamist global networks. Although the best known is Al Qaeda, there are others who exploit religious tensions for their own political ends, RI has told Christian Today.

“A rising number of extremists interpret the call to jihad as a call to violence. They seem to regard it as their religious duty to force Christians and non-Muslims to convert to Islam. Those who refuse must be driven out or killed,” says RI.

The persecution watchdog continued: “There is a growing movement to impose Islamic Sharia law, which results in increased pressure on Christians. In Nigeria, militants have driven Christians from their homes to remove political opposition and pave the way for Sharia law.”


“Despite the spectacular collapse of communism in Europe, persecution of Christians continues in China, Cuba, Laos and Vietnam, while the dubious accolade of the world’s worst persecutor of Christians goes to North Korea.”

Communist governments remain ideologically opposed to Christianity and have pursued systematic programmes to weaken and destroy the church. Some persecution also continues under the ‘old guard’ in the former Soviet Union, and China - for all its economic openness - continues to drive Christians underground.

“As China prepares for the Olympic Games western governments would do well to remember that China detains more Christians than any other country,” says Dipper. “Believers and leaders who want nothing more than to worship freely face imprisonment, torture and even death.”

RI has also explained to Christian Today that in the Hindu world Christians face persecution in India and Nepal. The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), one of India’s largest political parties, is associated with militant Hindu nationalist groups. Extremists have been involved in a growing number of attacks against both Christians and Muslims.

Several Indian states have introduced laws against forced conversion, but these are wide open to abuse. Christians face most pressure in rural areas, where militants have destroyed churches and threatened, attacked and killed church leaders.

In the Buddhist world, Christians face persecution in Bhutan, Burma and Sri Lanka. Buddhist militants regard Christianity as a threat to their national identity and unity. They have stirred up harassment and violence against Christians in Bhutan and Sri Lanka.

Back in 1966 Burma expelled most of its Christian missions. Today the repressive military regime still maintains controls over religious activity. There have been many cases of forced conversion to Buddhism as well as violence against Christians.

Through its partners in 30 countries, Release International supports Christians imprisoned for their faith and their families. Release supplies Bibles and Christian literature, gives medical aid and welfare, provides legal aid and sanctuary, and supports church workers.


http://www.christiantoday.com/articl....2007/8932.htm

gal aid and sanctuary, and supports church workers.[/I]

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Bro, if u want to share links, please do so in the World Affairs section.

Peace :)

[Goku]

Welcome Goku:)

Hope you benefit from your stay here, feel free to browse around and ask questions. :)

Here are some verses from the Holy Qur'an to be taken into consideration:

017.033
Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred
- except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).


006.160
He that doeth good shall have ten times as much to his credit: He that doeth evil shall only be recompensed according to his evil: no wrong shall be done unto (any of) them.

002.256
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

049.013
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).




Peace

[Pk_#2]

imsad You really hate us huh?:mmokay:

Peace and welcome to the forum,

I hate violence and terrorism:unhappy:

who said only Muslim arabs become terrorists ^o)

Looks like you know them inside out, you quite intimate with them then :-\

I don't see why people don't open there eyes a little, theres violence everywhere, coming from all directions, there are ignorent idiots in all religion that spoil it for everyone :hmm:

I'm just gonna get upset, so ima leave your thread now, i hope you have a nice day, i'm sorry you feel like that about our peaceful realigion,:offended:

May God guide you :)

Peace!

[Umm Khalid06]

[BANANA]welcome and enjoy your stay[/BANANA]
Saudi Arabia is right why build churches in macca and madina it is just not right:D

[Wolodyjowski]

imsad You really hate us huh?:mmokay:

Peace and welcome to the forum,

I hate violence and terrorism:unhappy:

who said only Muslim arabs become terrorists ^o)

Looks like you know them inside out, you quite intimate with them then :-\

I don't see why people don't open there eyes a little, theres violence everywhere, coming from all directions, there are ignorent idiots in all religion that spoil it for everyone :hmm:

I'm just gonna get upset, so ima leave your thread now, i hope you have a nice day, i'm sorry you feel like that about our peaceful realigion,:offended:

May God guide you :)

Peace!

I dont hate muslims of course. As Wafa Sultan said- "You can believe in your rocks until you dont throw them on me"
And its not tru that only muslim arabs become terrorists, also muslims from Indonesia, Philipinnes, India, Chechenia etc etc become terrorists.
I dont hate you so called " moderate muslims " , i just blame you that you dont do anything to stop your radical brothers and sisters.

[Wolodyjowski]

[BANANA]welcome and enjoy your stay[/BANANA]
Saudi Arabia is right why build churches in macca and madina it is just not right:D

You showed just your hypocrisy.Saudis spent millions of dollars to build mosques all over the world and the dont allow a single churche in their country.
If muslims were treated in Europe like christians are treated in Saudi Arabia you would call us europeans fascists and racists.Because man persecuting someone because of his faith is racism.Saudis are racists.

[Pk_#2]

I dont hate muslims of course. As Wafa Sultan said- "You can believe in your rocks until you dont throw them on me"
And its not tru that only muslim arabs become terrorists, also muslims from Indonesia, Philipinnes, India, Chechenia etc etc become terrorists.
I dont hate you so called " moderate muslims " , i just blame you that you dont do anything to stop your radical brothers and sisters.

It's easy to say, 'go and stop them'

If your so concerned why don't YOU stop them?

I'm doing my job by praying for them, and any victims that may be harmed God-Forbid!

Peace! imsad

[Pk_#2]

You showed just your hypocrisy.Saudis spent millions of dollars to build mosques all over the world and the dont allow a single churche in their country.
If muslims were treated in Europe like christians are treated in Saudi Arabia you would call us europeans fascists and racists.Because man persecuting someone because of his faith is racism.Saudis are racists.

Now your just assuming,

^^ that's your opinion, fair nuff :)

[Skywalker]

First of all, if Saudi Arabia is not allowing other religions to be practiced within its borders, it's not Islamic. The ideal Islamic state allows for the practice of other religions as long as the head of each family belonging to those other religions pays the jizya tax. Given that it's less than what the Muslims themselves pay as Zakat, there should never be any problem. If Saudi Arabia is not sticking to this rule, then they aren't following Islam properly. But then again, what government on this world IS?

[Umm Khalid06]

You showed just your hypocrisy.Saudis spent millions of dollars to build mosques all over the world and the dont allow a single churche in their country.
If muslims were treated in Europe like christians are treated in Saudi Arabia you would call us europeans fascists and racists.Because man persecuting someone because of his faith is racism.Saudis are racists.

ok if you are calling Saudis racists for protecting thier country and religion then that is what you think not everyone thinks like you do

[Skywalker]

I dont hate you so called " moderate muslims " , i just blame you that you dont do anything to stop your radical brothers and sisters.

I think that's the first justified thing you've said on this forum. Yes we do need to speak out against terrorism and try to do what we can to tell these people that they're wrong, but the West isn't helping us out very much are they?

By going to all-out war with these "terrorists" and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in the process, they're not exactly making the so-called "moderate" Muslims sympathetic to their cause. Furthermore, by creating secret torture facilities throughout the world and establishing places like Guantanamo, where unconvicted Muslims have been held and tortured for the last 5 years, America has given very little reason for anyone who suspecs a terrorist in their midst to report them.

[Wolodyjowski]

ok if you are calling Saudis racists for protecting thier country and religion then that is what you think not everyone thinks like you do

Ok and what would you say then if suddenly all european countries started to protect christianity and country just like Saudi Arabia now?
-muslims couldnt build mosques in Europe then
-owning a Quaran = going to prison
-muslims could pray in homes only
-for islamic proselytising penalty is death.
Would you be happy then in muslims lived in Europe in such conditions?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Are u kidding me? Which Western country has any generations of Muslims or old communities? None. Arab countries still have coptic Christians. What do u think about the issue with the veil? Why fear a peice of cloth?

[Wolodyjowski]

Are u kidding me? Which Western country has any generations of Muslims or old communities? None. Arab countries still have coptic Christians. What do u think about the issue with the veil? Why fear a peice of cloth?

Tayyaba now i think that you should read more books about european history.Please listen to me now ok. Muslim immigration began in Europe in the 60's of XX century so how would you want to see very old muslim communities in Europe while there are maybe 2 or maximum 3 generations of muslims in Europe.
Second thinks, you said copts, and havent you heard about persecution of copts in Egypt? Havent you heard about the events in Alexandria? Where muslims attacked christians in a churche. Actually i think that muslim women should wear what they want. But please Tayyaba put those things in perspective. How can you compare banning a veil in Europe with putting people to jail in Saudi Arabia only because of owning a Bible? Just think about it honestly please.

[Skywalker]

Ok and what would you say then if suddenly all european countries started to protect christianity and country just like Saudi Arabia now?
-muslims couldnt build mosques in Europe then
-owning a Quaran = going to prison
-muslims could pray in homes only
-for islamic proselytising penalty is death.
Would you be happy then in muslims lived in Europe in such conditions?

Actually, that's the way the world was until Islam came along, and allowed everyone to practice whatever religion they wanted as long as they paid the jizya. Like I said a few posts ago and you obviously didn't bother reading, if Saudi Arabia is not allowing another religion to be practiced within its borders, it is NOT following Islam correctly.

[Skywalker]

Second thinks, you said copts, and havent you heard about persecution of copts in Egypt? Havent you heard about the events in Alexandria? Where muslims attacked christians in a churche.

Dude, I LIVE in Egypt and some of my closest friends are Copts! What persecution are you talking about? Problems between Muslims and Copts in Egypt are very rare, but they do happen from time to time. The Alexandrian church you're referring to wasn't attacked, but a group of people staged a protest outside it because of a DVD they were spreading around about terrorism.

[Wolodyjowski]

Actually, that's the way the world was until Islam came along, and allowed everyone to practice whatever religion they wanted as long as they paid the jizya. Like I said a few posts ago and you obviously didn't bother reading, if Saudi Arabia is not allowing another religion to be practiced within its borders, it is NOT following Islam correctly.

And tell me Skywalker who are you to tell what is the correct islam? Tell me are you any islamic scholar who learned about islam for half of his life?
How old are you actually? Why should i believe you and not saudic scholars who learned about islam dozens of years? It sounds funny when you criticize the purest islamic country for not following islam directly.

[Fishman]

And tell me Skywalker who are you to tell what is the correct islam? Tell me are you any islamic scholar who learned about islam for half of his life?
How old are you actually? Why should i believe you and not saudic scholars who learned about islam dozens of years? It sounds funny when you criticize the purest islamic country for not following islam directly.

:sl:
Saudi Arabia is not pure. It is run by a bunch of oil-lords who act like tyrannical dictators.
:w:

[Wolodyjowski]

:sl:
Saudi Arabia is not pure. It is run by a bunch of oil-lords who act like tyrannical dictators.
:w:

The same questions that i asked Skywalker.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
You don't need to be a scholar to know that saudi is not the best Islamically ruled country. If it was, don't you think it would have a much larger muslim population, say of I don't know 1.8 billion?

[Fishman]

The same questions that i asked Skywalker.

:sl:
You were the person that said that Saudi Arabia is the most pure Islamic country in the world. Which, as I just said, is not true. Somalia under the Islamic Courts was probably one of the most pure Muslim countries in the world. Unfortunately Ethiopia doesn't like bordering on a Sharia law country much, so they made up some trash about al-Queida living there and invaded the whole place.
:w:

[Wolodyjowski]

:sl:
You were the person that said that Saudi Arabia is the most pure Islamic country in the world. Which, as I just said, is not true. Somalia under the Islamic Courts was probably one of the most pure Muslim countries in the world. Unfortunately Ethiopia doesn't like bordering on a Sharia law country much, so they made up some trash about al-Queida living there and invaded the whole place.
:w:

Yes i know well islamic law in taliban Somalia, fro example for stealing the penalty was cutting hands, for adultery the pennalty was stoning.Indeed moderate and justice rights.
By the way, those are saudic princess ( i dont say that all princess, but many of them) that fueled Al Queda with millions of dollars.

[aamirsaab]

By the way, those are saudic princess ( i dont say that all princess, but many of them) that fueled Al Queda with millions of dollars.

The fact that there are princesses in saudi quite clearly indicates that saudi is not implimenting islamic law since there is no monarchy under sharia law.

[Skywalker]

And tell me Skywalker who are you to tell what is the correct islam? Tell me are you any islamic scholar who learned about islam for half of his life?
How old are you actually? Why should i believe you and not saudic scholars who learned about islam dozens of years? It sounds funny when you criticize the purest islamic country for not following islam directly.

Shows how little you know about Saudi Arabia.

;D

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Lol, what a backfired post, indeed. No Muslim country is purely Islamic.

[Wolodyjowski]

Lol, what a backfired post, indeed. No Muslim country is purely Islamic.

And what about Afghanistan under taliban rule? What about Sudan where sharia law was introduced?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It was introduced, doesnt mean it was correctly implemented. Many here have said they did not allow girls and woman to recieve education. In Islam, education is a must, a duty upon every Muslim. Including females.

No Muslim country is purely Islamic.

[Woodrow]

Tayyaba now i think that you should read more books about european history.Please listen to me now ok. Muslim immigration began in Europe in the 60's of XX century so how would you want to see very old muslim communities in Europe while there are maybe 2 or maximum 3 generations of muslims in Europe.
Second thinks, you said copts, and havent you heard about persecution of copts in Egypt? Havent you heard about the events in Alexandria? Where muslims attacked christians in a churche. Actually i think that muslim women should wear what they want. But please Tayyaba put those things in perspective. How can you compare banning a veil in Europe with putting people to jail in Saudi Arabia only because of owning a Bible? Just think about it honestly please.

Muslims were in Much of the Baltics and eastern Europe prior to 1400. Your ancestors invited my Ancestors into Lithuania and Poland to defend you from the Christian crusaders. What began happening to the Lipkas in the 1800s? Why is it that us lipkas are having a difficult time in returning to Poland?

Have you seen any of the old Mosques in Poland? Has Poland totaly wiped out it's Islamic history?

The tartars were not from freely practicing and teaching their religion. In the areas where they lived, mosques can be found the oldest of which are in the Bohoniki and Kruszyniany villages. A new mosque has been built in Gdansk, and in Warsaw and Bilystok there are prayer houses.

Tartars constitute the most numerous and consolidated group of Polish Muslims with a tradition of a few hundred years. Tartars is the name of one of the Turkish-Mongol tribe. They were given the name tartars by the Slavs whom they attacked during the 13th century A.D. The Lithuanian kings granted the tartar refugees, who escaped the persecution of one of Genghis Khan's descendants, lands on which they settled.

The tartar population grew and prospered. They started to live in and around the major political and economic centers in Poland. The tartars living in Poland today are the descendants of those who arrived there in the second half of the 17th century and were under the protection of the Polish King Jan the Third.
The tartars who lived in urban areas worked mainly in trade and leather tanning. Some of them were part of the landed gentry and the nobility. They showed great bravery in the wars fought by Poland with other countries until the end of the 18th century when the Polish Empire disintegrated.

After Poland gained its independence - in which the tartars played a major role - from Germany, Russia, and Austria, they participated in establishing several cultural and social societies. Books and magazines were published in the tartar language.
In 1935, the tartar knight legion was established as part of the Polish army. They were led by the Imam of Warsaw. During the Second World War, the tartar Muslims, like all other Polish people, took part in the fight against Germany and the former Soviet Union. Many Muslims went to Warsaw to escapee religious persecution in Russia.

Source: http://www.planetaislam.com/poland/muslimsinpoland.html


This is prejudice of Muslims that goes back to the End of WW2? Prior to WW2 we lived in peace with the Lithuanians, Poles, Letish and Estonians. Today we are regaining acceptance in Lithuanian, but Poland has closed ears and hearts to us.

[Woodrow]

I guess if you believe Muslims have only been in Europe since the 1960s you have never been in Warsaw and walked down Tatarska Street, close to Powązkowski cemetery. Warsaw is not a new city Tatarska Street was named in honor of my Tatar Ancestors. There are also a number of old Islamic Cemetaries in Poland. Sadly most were destroyed by the Germans during WW2 as they became battlefields.

The Tatar Muslim cemeteries, known as mizary, are interesting Polish tourist attractions. This small ethnic group of about 5,000 people, brought to Poland in the 16th century by the Golden Horde, still live near the eastern borders of Poland, in Podlasie province and the area around Białystok. Smaller Muslim communities can be found in the Tricity area of Gdańsk, Gdynia and Sopot, as well as in Warsaw and Bydgoszcz.

Source: http://www.warsawvoice.pl/archiwum.phtml/13059/

We go back several Hundred years before the 16th century and where a prominant presence in Poland when Poland was still a suburb of Vilnius. Tatars were very strong defenders of Poland during Poland's 1000 year history. Muslims were granted the status of Polish and Lithuanian Royalty and in spite of the power, they never once mistreated a single non-Muslim. All religions were permitted to practice freely and it was only after Christianity became dominate was there religious persecution. Primarily against the Muslims, Jews and native pagans. Yet Tatars remained staunch defenders of Poland fighting against would be invaders for nearly 1000 years. Then after WW2 we fall into the category of second class unwanted citizens.

Your bigotry against Muslims is also bigotry against your own Polish ancestory. Islam is a major part of Polish history. It is not by accident that the Baboushka looks like a hijab and the traditional dress of Polish women looks very much like a Burka.

[Skywalker]

We had a Polish family living next to us in Canada. They were very nice.

[Woodrow]

We had a Polish family living next to us in Canada. They were very nice.

The majority of Polish people are very nice and very tolerant. But, like in all groups there are people who lack understanding and tolerance. It is all a matter of personal choice and each of us is responsible for our own choices.

[Samira_01]

Welcome :)

[Wolodyjowski]

Im back. Your editor benned me because he didnt agree with my point of view.How democratic it is.But i guess some people dont understand the idea of freedom of speech.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Dude if u wanted to come back, bad start i must say. thats the prob wit democracy, too much crap spilling out.

[Skywalker]

Did his account just get disabled again?

[vpb]

seems like some people come here with the intention of creating hot debates and constantly putting fuel on its fire and not with the intention of learning.