North Korea may disarm Nukes!

[MTAFFI]

North Korean nuclear talks may net deal By BURT HERMAN, Associated Press Writer
33 minutes ago



BEIJING - Talks on North Korea's nuclear programs resumed on a positive note Thursday, with the Chinese hosts distributing a draft agreement and the North agreeing in principle to initial steps to disarm.

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Envoys from six nations are trying to agree on steps to implement a September 2005 deal in which North Korea pledged to disarm in exchange for aid and security guarantees. The 2005 deal — the only one to emerge since negotiations began in 2003 — was a broad statement of principles that did not outline any concrete steps for dismantling North Korea's nuclear program.

The main U.S. envoy, Assistant Secretary of State Christopher, said the new proposal would be "a set of actions that would have to be taken in a finite amount of time." He declined to give specifics, but said moves would occur in a matter of weeks.

"The delegations are coalescing around some of the themes that we believe should be the basis for a first step in implementing" the 2005 agreement, Hill said. "The first step of a journey is often the most difficult step, and this effort is in fact proving that."

A South Korean official, speaking early Friday on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing diplomacy, said China circulated a draft proposal. The official gave no details, but other delegates said earlier that the agreement would outline initial steps for implementing the 2005 accord.

Such an agreement would set the stage for the first tangible steps in more than three years of negotiations.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in Washington she was "cautiously optimistic" that the implementation of the agreement could begin.

At the last round of talks in December, in the wake of North Korea's Oct. 9 underground nuclear test, the communist nation refused even to talk about its nuclear programs. Instead, Pyongyang demanded the U.S. lift financial restrictions targeting alleged North Korean counterfeiting and money laundering.

Since then, the U.S. and North Korean nuclear envoys held an unusual one-on-one meeting in Germany last month where differences between the sides were apparently discussed, although no details of any concessions have been made public. Pyongyang and Washington held separate talks in Beijing late January on the financial issue, although it has yet to be resolved.

Unlike in the December talks, negotiators Thursday "were able to make progress in discussing denuclearization," Hill said.

South Korea's envoy Chun Yung-woo said all sides agreed that "it is important to reach agreement at this round of talks on first-phase measures."

The North's chief negotiator had said before the talks began that his country was "prepared to discuss first-stage measures" toward nuclear disarmament.

"We are going to make a judgment based on whether the United States will give up its hostile policy and come out toward peaceful coexistence," Kim Kye Gwan said on arriving in Beijing for the meeting at a Chinese state guesthouse.

American experts who visited Kim in Pyongyang last week said North Korea would propose a freeze of its main nuclear reactor and a resumption of international inspections in exchange for energy aid and a normalization of relations with Washington.

The North, which suffers from chronic power shortages, is also seeking electricity supply or an annual import of at least half a million tons of heavy fuel oil — the amount it had been promised under a Clinton-era denuclearization deal with the U.S.

North Korea and the U.S. agreed in 1994 for Pyongyang to freeze its plutonium-based nuclear reactor in exchange for energy aid. The North promised to eventually dismantle the facility following construction there of two light-water nuclear reactors for electricity — a type more difficult to divert for weapons use.

However, that deal fell apart in late 2002 after Washington accused North Korea of a secret uranium enrichment program. The North expelled international inspectors and restarted its reactor, and is believed to have amassed enough radioactive material for at least a half-dozen bombs.

The six-nation talks — involving China, Japan, Russia, the U.S. and the two Koreas — began in August 2003, but the North has twice boycotted them for more than a year. The latest was over a U.S. decision to blacklist a Macau bank where the North held accounts, saying it was complicit in the regime's alleged counterfeiting and money laundering.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070208/...koreas_nuclear


Wouldnt that be great it North Korea actually goes through with this and maybe even establishes decent relations with the US? It would be something everyones children would read about in the future.. almost like the end of another cold war

[Keltoi]

We'll see. There have been agreements before.

[wilberhum]

We'll see. There have been agreements before.

So true, but this one if from China. North Korea can not continue to exist with out China, and Kim Young-Sick knows it.

[Keltoi]

So true, but this one if from China. North Korea can not continue to exist with out China, and Kim Young-Sick knows it.

True, I'm sure the agreement promises continued economic aid from China and probably the U.S. The question will be if North Korea will allow inspections to prove their sincerity.

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[Woodrow]

I think that China has the means to exert a bit more pressure on NK than the US has. If China does not want NK to have nukes, it would be a very poor decision for them to think different.

Like the man said. "Let me make you an offer, you can not refuse."

[Trumble]

I think that China has the means to exert a bit more pressure on NK than the US has. If China does not want NK to have nukes, it would be a very poor decision for them to think different.

True. If the Chinese finally make that point clearly enough that result is probably inevitable. It's just a case of the North Koreans squeezing everything they possibly can out of a deal.

[sojourner]

Since Kim Jong Il is still in N. Korea, i won't hold my breath on this one.

[Woodrow]

Since Kim Jong Il is still in N. Korea, i won't hold my breath on this one.

Kim Jong is only human, no matter how hard he tries his presence does have an ending point.

It is not wise to make China angry, if that is the source of your necessities.

[Keltoi]

I wonder if this has anything to do with those bomb tests that occurred a few months ago? I haven't heard anything about that story since. Did they actually test a nuclear weapon?, or was it only a radioactive bomb?

[Woodrow]

I wonder if this has anything to do with those bomb tests that occurred a few months ago? I haven't heard anything about that story since. Did they actually test a nuclear weapon?, or was it only a radioactive bomb?

Let us put this in perspective. Suppose Mexico decides it wants to develope Nukes and was going to test one someplace in Mesico. I beleive those of us who live in the southern states would be some what concerned about the test even if it was just a radioactive bomb. I am certain we would be requesting Washington to put some pressure on Mexico and convince them it is a poor idea.

[Cognescenti]

I wonder if this has anything to do with those bomb tests that occurred a few months ago? I haven't heard anything about that story since. Did they actually test a nuclear weapon?, or was it only a radioactive bomb?

The yield was variably estimated at between .5 and 5 kt (most likely in the .5 to 1 kt range). 1kt=1000 tons of TNT equivalent explosive power.

Even at the low end, a chemical explosion of that magnitude would require a tunnel with a 1 sq m cross section (1 x 1m) filled for about 500 m with TNT. That is a lot of explosive.

Plus aerial surveilance revealed radioactive daughter elements of a fission explosion. This might have been faked with enourmous effort but seems very unlikley. It was almost certainly a real nuke...although perhaps a near dud with very low yield. For comaparison the Hiroshima blast was about 20 kt (about 20-40 x as powerful).

The Chinese were said to have been really angry with the PRK over this because it made them look bad.

Seems to me, however, it will be challenging to prove that the PRK has no remaining nukes, even if they stop refining uranium and plutonium. Still, it is very good news.

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

If NK do stop the then is the worst for them.

For the US cannot be held by its words,when it say peace it will attack.

A simple verse.

Attack Iraq becasue it has NO WMD
Do not attack North Korea becasue it has WMD.

So in simple fact,when you are strong who will attack you?

And for the China business,in the end China will do what is good for China.

The US already consider China as an enemy and the last bastion of Communism.
Chna knows this and is not stupid to not recognize the number of US bases circling China.

In Asia,here the leaders have already said that what ever happen,with NK on China side...Japan and Taiwan is lost.

And the US is powerless.
China will control Taiwan,irregardless of US action,adn for that it needs allies especailly NK.
The US know it is in no position to deter China once it invaded Taiwan.

One paper in Chinese mainland say,US SUPPORT ONE CHINA POLICY Inclusive of Taiwan,but sells ARM TO TAIWAN.

so at the end of the day,China is not stupid and the US cannot do anything.

[MTAFFI]

Salaam,

If NK do stop the then is the worst for them.

For the US cannot be held by its words,when it say peace it will attack.

A simple verse.

Attack Iraq becasue it has NO WMD
Do not attack North Korea becasue it has WMD.

So in simple fact,when you are strong who will attack you?

And for the China business,in the end China will do what is good for China.

The US already consider China as an enemy and the last bastion of Communism.
Chna knows this and is not stupid to not recognize the number of US bases circling China.

In Asia,here the leaders have already said that what ever happen,with NK on China side...Japan and Taiwan is lost.

And the US is powerless.
China will control Taiwan,irregardless of US action,adn for that it needs allies especailly NK.
The US know it is in no position to deter China once it invaded Taiwan.

One paper in Chinese mainland say,US SUPPORT ONE CHINA POLICY Inclusive of Taiwan,but sells ARM TO TAIWAN.

so at the end of the day,China is not stupid and the US cannot do anything.

sometimes that delusional paranoia just gets old

[MTAFFI]

just a little update

By JAE-SOON CHANG, Associated Press Writer
25 minutes ago



BEIJING - Envoys to international talks on ending North Korea's nuclear weapons program struggled Friday to find a compromise as differences emerged over a Chinese proposal on how to begin the disarmament process.

Kenichiro Sasae, Japan's top negotiator said he felt there was no prospect of an agreement late Friday on the draft on how to implement a 2005 agreement that calls for Pyongyang to disarm in exchange for security guarantees and aid.

"There are some parts in which we had progress but on others we ran into difficulty," Sasae told reporters after daylong meetings with the other delegates.

"We will continue with the talks, but at this point in time I don't feel there is a prospect of reaching an agreement," he said without elaborating.

The chief American negotiator, however, expressed some hope but added that disputes remained over finer points.

"The fundamental issues, we're OK on," said U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill. "I'm still cautiously optimistic."

Hill said that the remaining issues to be resolved were contained in a single paragraph of the Chinese draft and that they were working on rewriting it to address North Korea's concerns. He did not give any details.

Earlier Friday, Hill and his North Korean counterpart, Vice Foreign Minister Kim Kye Gwan, met for two hours, with Kim saying the meeting led to agreement on some unspecified issues, although there were still issues to overcome. "We are going to make more efforts to resolve them," Kim said.

Group and bilateral talks on Friday centered on a draft agreement China distributed to the nuclear envoys from Japan, the two Koreas, Russia and the United States.

The proposal — presented after North Korea agreed in principle to take initial steps to disarm — would grant the communist nation unspecified energy aid for shutting down its main nuclear facilities within two months, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported.

Officials declined to confirm details of the draft.

A pro-Pyongyang newspaper in Japan said the North wants the U.S. first to show that it has permanently ceased its "hostile" policy toward Pyongyang.

"As conditions mature, (North Korea) can halt the operation of the Yongbyon nuclear facilities," the Choson Sinbo said, referring to the site of the North's main nuclear complex north of Pyongyang.

"The (North)'s position is that it can take corresponding measures when the U.S. takes steps to show that it irreversibly gave up its hostile policy," it said.

The report, carried on the paper's Web site, cited a "diplomatic source well versed in" the negotiations. The paper, with links to the government in Pyongyang, is considered one of the North's propaganda tools.

Any agreement on an initial set of reciprocal moves to implement a September 2005 accord — in which North Korea pledged to disarm in exchange for aid and security guarantees — would set the stage for the first tangible steps in the often-delayed six-nation process.

The 2005 deal, a broad statement of principles that did not outline any concrete steps for dismantling North Korea's nuclear program, was the only agreement since the negotiations began in 2003.

At the last session of the arms negotiations in December, following North Korea's Oct. 9 underground nuclear test, the North refused to even talk about its nuclear programs. Instead, it demanded the U.S. lift financial restrictions targeting alleged North Korean counterfeiting and money laundering.

___

[Count DeSheep]

For the US cannot be held by its words,when it say peace it will attack.

And the US is powerless.

so at the end of the day,China is not stupid and the US cannot do anything.

Wait...What?

[Zulkiflim]

sometimes that delusional paranoia just gets old

Salaam,

Yes i know,the US is very paranoid seeing enemies everhwere.

LOL

[MTAFFI]

Salaam,

Yes i know,the US is very paranoid seeing enemies everhwere.

LOL

lol

well maybe if people would stop bombing embassies and other buildings of ours then we wouldnt have to look everywhere. Besides, I would say it is the Muslims who fear the world and see everyone who isnt a Muslim as a Kaffir or an enemy

lol

again very sick of the same old paranoid comments that everyone is out to get you

[MTAFFI]

BEIJING - North Korea agreed Tuesday to shut down its main nuclear reactor and eventually dismantle its atomic weapons program in exchange for millions of dollars in aid, just four months after the communist state shocked the world by testing a nuclear bomb. But North Korean state media said the pact required only a temporary suspension of the country's nuclear facilities.

"At the talks, the parties decided to offer economic and energy aid equivalent to 1 million tons of heavy fuel oil in connection with the DPRK's temporary suspension of the operation of its nuclear facilities," it said, referring to the country by the initials of its official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

The deal, reached after arduous talks, marks the first concrete plan for disarmament in more than three years of six-nation negotiations. The plan also could potentially herald a new era of cooperation in the region with the North's longtime foes — the United States and Japan — also agreeing to discuss normalizing relations.

"Obviously we have a long way to go, but we're very pleased with this agreement," U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill told reporters. "It's a very solid step forward."

Making sure North Korea declares all its nuclear facilities and shuts them down is likely to prove difficult, nuclear experts have said.

North Korea must be in a real hard place

[cihad]

muslims don't fear anyone except Allah.

you really hate muslims don't you MTAFFI?

[Keltoi]

BEIJING - North Korea agreed Tuesday to shut down its main nuclear reactor and eventually dismantle its atomic weapons program in exchange for millions of dollars in aid, just four months after the communist state shocked the world by testing a nuclear bomb. But North Korean state media said the pact required only a temporary suspension of the country's nuclear facilities.

"At the talks, the parties decided to offer economic and energy aid equivalent to 1 million tons of heavy fuel oil in connection with the DPRK's temporary suspension of the operation of its nuclear facilities," it said, referring to the country by the initials of its official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

The deal, reached after arduous talks, marks the first concrete plan for disarmament in more than three years of six-nation negotiations. The plan also could potentially herald a new era of cooperation in the region with the North's longtime foes — the United States and Japan — also agreeing to discuss normalizing relations.

"Obviously we have a long way to go, but we're very pleased with this agreement," U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill told reporters. "It's a very solid step forward."

Making sure North Korea declares all its nuclear facilities and shuts them down is likely to prove difficult, nuclear experts have said.

North Korea must be in a real hard place

Well, by most intelligence coming out of North Korea the people are eating bark and rioting over fertilizer....

[MTAFFI]

muslims don't fear anyone except Allah.

you really hate muslims don't you MTAFFI?

why would you say something like that?

[Count DeSheep]

you really hate muslims don't you MTAFFI?

why would you say something like that?

North Korea disarming nukes, hating Muslims...I see the correlation there. Especially since MTAFFI is on an Islamic board, and has been here for quite a while without getting kicked off.

[MTAFFI]

North Korea disarming nukes, hating Muslims...I see the correlation there. Especially since MTAFFI is on an Islamic board, and has been here for quite a while without getting kicked off.

Thanks for that Count

And just so it is clear, I do not hate any Muslims, I hate the people who use the Muslim faith to justify their own sick desires and motives

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

wow,,,the NK have agreed on their own terms..COOL.

So this is a lesson to everyone ..

BE STRONG,,REMAIN STRONG.

If you give up your sovereign due to threats and welfare,then you will be destroyed.

As always..

Attack Iraq becasue it does NOT HAVE WMD.
DO not attack NK becasue it has WMD..

thankfully the NK will still have more than enough time to digest the result of their nuclear test to come up with better detterents.

[Keltoi]

Salaam,

wow,,,the NK have agreed on their own terms..COOL.

So this is a lesson to everyone ..

BE STRONG,,REMAIN STRONG.

If you give up your sovereign due to threats and welfare,then you will be destroyed.

As always..

Attack Iraq becasue it does NOT HAVE WMD.
DO not attack NK becasue it has WMD..

thankfully the NK will still have more than enough time to digest the result of their nuclear test to come up with better detterents.

Oh, so you would like to see a nuclear armed Korean peninsula? Also, the reason the U.S. hasn't attacked North Korean nuclear facilities is because South Korea will be the obvious target for any North Korean retaliation. That would mean the destruction of Seoul. These situation are much more complicated than your simple point.

[MTAFFI]

Oh, so you would like to see a nuclear armed Korean peninsula? Also, the reason the U.S. hasn't attacked North Korean nuclear facilities is because South Korea will be the obvious target for any North Korean retaliation. That would mean the destruction of Seoul. These situation are much more complicated than your simple point.

lol

For some it is hard to see past what is put right in front of them, to think that the US would be worried about say Japan, or Seoul, to Zulkiflim, would then not allow him to perceive the US as a warmongering hate machine that is only out to exterminate Islam and be the cause of all evil in the world.

By the way Zulkiflim, that is real good advice, be like NK, starve your people, deprive them of basic necessities just so you can have a nuclear device that couldnt even reach your "real" enemy anyways... STAY STRONG right?

[Zulkiflim]

Oh, so you would like to see a nuclear armed Korean peninsula? Also, the reason the U.S. hasn't attacked North Korean nuclear facilities is because South Korea will be the obvious target for any North Korean retaliation. That would mean the destruction of Seoul. These situation are much more complicated than your simple point.

Salaam,

Actually no,china will not allow it..No aggresion by outside forces near its border.


Also,if it comes to war,i think it is nopt SK will get the brunt of the attack but Japan.

China will not accept taiwan to be attacked,China may attack taiwan,but it sees it as an internal strife.

NK attacking Taiwan is an invasion.

And i dont think China would much care if Japan is attacked,Japanese attitude toward asian sentiment for the WW2 is enver forgotten.And Japan willingness to publicly humiliate china at every turn show that.

So i would say,if push comes to shove,if the US attack,Japan will get it and other US allied Nations.

Let see how can i make it simple..
Bush planned to attack Iraq even before SEP 11.
Bush said he will make a F16(or any warplane) into UN colours to be shot down as pretext for Iraq invasion.
Bush said Saddam wanted to kill my DAD.
Bush said GOD told him to invade.

So plans are already laid out,it is just how to convice the US people to back it up.


So far with 2 wars under Bush belt,it seem Bush 2 Justice 0.

[Zulkiflim]

lol

For some it is hard to see past what is put right in front of them, to think that the US would be worried about say Japan, or Seoul, to Zulkiflim, would then not allow him to perceive the US as a warmongering hate machine that is only out to exterminate Islam and be the cause of all evil in the world.

By the way Zulkiflim, that is real good advice, be like NK, starve your people, deprive them of basic necessities just so you can have a nuclear device that couldnt even reach your "real" enemy anyways... STAY STRONG right?

Salaam,

It is not advice it is the simple truth.

Is the US invading NK?
No why?
Is not NK an axis of evil?
Is not NK creating WMD?
Did not NK test a nuclear weapon?


And you are right,if NK did not remain steadfast in their rights of soveriegnity,i guess they will be experiencing a SHOCK AND AWE.

Well i can say,is it more worse to starve your own populace for your own security?

do you know how many coutnries have done the same thing?
USSR/Pakistan/India,,many more i can assure you.

But you do not wish to see the ills you do,but only the good..
Like i always said before,the US fear justice,no accountabilty,that is why Bush and his cohorts want immunity for all US citizens..

[MTAFFI]

Salaam,

It is not advice it is the simple truth.

Is the US invading NK?
No why?
Is not NK an axis of evil?
Is not NK creating WMD?
Did not NK test a nuclear weapon?

The US did not invade because of what Keltoi said above, Japan may be struck, South Korea could be struck, and just by the way NK doesnt really care that much about what China thinks (which I would think would be obvious after their little stunt with the nuke after China said do not do it), the only reason they care at all about China is because that is their last source of aid

And you are right,if NK did not remain steadfast in their rights of soveriegnity,i guess they will be experiencing a SHOCK AND AWE.

No they may end up experiencing peace and fertilizer for crops and a freeze taken off their bank accounts.

Well i can say,is it more worse to starve your own populace for your own security?

Is this a question or comment? Either way, NK's security was not a factor, Kim Jong Il is a paranoid psychopath that thought the US was trying to overthrow him, the only thing the US has done is ensure protection for Japan and SK

do you know how many coutnries have done the same thing?
USSR/Pakistan/India,,many more i can assure you.

So because they did it, it is OK?

But you do not wish to see the ills you do,but only the good..

I know that there are mistakes made, by not just the US but every country in history, however the US does in the world far exceeds the mistakes, perhaps you just look for the ills and do not look for the good

Like i always said before,the US fear justice,no accountabilty,that is why Bush and his cohorts want immunity for all US citizens..

uhhhhhh what? I am not sure I understand this alien twisted form of logic... In fact I am not even sure if this is a question of logic, rather a flat out ridiculous statement

[Count DeSheep]

Is the US invading NK?
No why?

No, the U.S. is not invading NK. America isn't strong enough or popular enough. If America did attack, everyone would take the opportunity to attack America. More than likely, if it wasn't totally destroyed by bombs and such, the nation would be sliced up like a cake and given to China, North Korea, etc...

But you do not wish to see the ills you do,but only the good..
Like i always said before,the US fear justice,no accountabilty,

Amen to that.

[Keltoi]

No, the U.S. is not invading NK. America isn't strong enough or popular enough. If America did attack, everyone would take the opportunity to attack America. More than likely, if it wasn't totally destroyed by bombs and such, the nation would be sliced up like a cake and given to China, North Korea, etc...



Amen to that.

Sounds like a good piece of Clancy fiction....

[Zulkiflim]

The US did not invade because of what Keltoi said above, Japan may be struck, South Korea could be struck, and just by the way NK doesnt really care that much about what China thinks (which I would think would be obvious after their little stunt with the nuke after China said do not do it), the only reason they care at all about China is because that is their last source of aid

[PIE]So inpoint,the US feels that Japan is far more important that Kuwait?

In the second desert war,the US attacked Iraq wihout caring for the Kuwaits.

Or did they make a calculated move knowing that they had cornered Saddam?

Or dont the Kuwaitis matter?

so again,it is simple,do not attack NK becasue it had DETTERENT FORCES,but do attack Iraq becasue it has NO DETTERENT WEAPONS.

[/PIE]


No they may end up experiencing peace and fertilizer for crops and a freeze taken off their bank accounts.

[PIE] Like i said,security or walth/welfare.

Should you have a coutnry then fight and bargain for wealth/welfare.
Or should you have wealtha nd welfare but later to be bombed to Bits..

Guess,if a coutnry kow about enjoyment,they will fell more when it is lost,
In the current situation,with the current state of NK would they miss much?

In point,the US itself say that it would rahter make the future US citizens to pay for the DEFENSE of the US ,in endeavours like war on terrorism ...missile defence system and so on..
So the US recognize safety rather than welfare...dont you agree..

[/PIE]



Is this a question or comment? Either way, NK's security was not a factor, Kim Jong Il is a paranoid psychopath that thought the US was trying to overthrow him, the only thing the US has done is ensure protection for Japan and SK

[PIE]Wait the US is not trying to overthow NK,with grand sounding word like REGIME,AXIS OF EVIL,DICTATOR..

**** my english must be bad,ohh and did not the US place santion on NK...

Guess in your mind overhtoring would be SHOCK AND AWE coutnless murder just to get to one man.[/PIE]


So because they did it, it is OK?

[PIE]Well to them and so is to many more coutnries who would sacrifice their own people for their own nation.

Did not India nd Pakistan face santion and what not just for tyring to learn nuclear technology,and how many million of people sufferend FOR THE DEFENCE OF THEIR LAND?

Oc course for the US in its endeavour to get nuclear technology they bombed another coutnry just to test their weapons,,,,but hey as long as it is not US citizens it is ok..
Or don't the US acrifice US citizens for its own safety?


[/PIE]


I know that there are mistakes made, by not just the US but every country in history, however the US does in the world far exceeds the mistakes, perhaps you just look for the ills and do not look for the good

[PIE]Yep,like i said you do ill..then say other coutnries do it too..

And your notion that the US does more good than bad is questionable..LOL

At the end of the day what the US dos is for its own safety and not others.

Look at the missile defence system,
The US are placing these weapon on non US sol so that the bomb can be destroyed before entring US airspace...
But for the host coutnries,if the war comes to them it dont matter..HMMMM

[/PIE]



uhhhhhh what? I am not sure I understand this alien twisted form of logic... In fact I am not even sure if this is a question of logic, rather a flat out ridiculous statement

It is twisted i know,but that is the thought of the US people.
They do evil in the world but do not think they should be punished...

LOL...

[Zulkiflim]

No, the U.S. is not invading NK. America isn't strong enough or popular enough. If America did attack, everyone would take the opportunity to attack America. More than likely, if it wasn't totally destroyed by bombs and such, the nation would be sliced up like a cake and given to China, North Korea, etc...



Amen to that.

Salaam,

So might is right.
And popularity counts..LOL

See what is wrong with the US justice and govemental system..LOL

No Justice.
No Law.

And the US wont attack NK or even help Taiwan when China takes it over..

The US cant....

[arabiyyah]

China would never think of attacking US interests because so much of Chinas economy is dependant on USA conmpanies if the USA restircted trade or comapines in China, over 200 million workers could be unemployed. but at the same time the usa is so dependant on chinese workers that is economy would go down a huge amount if it stoped trade wit china, so therefore, i dont believe either country will want to escalate with the other.

[MTAFFI]

It is twisted i know,but that is the thought of the US people.
They do evil in the world but do not think they should be punished...

LOL...

you arguments and statements are lame and pointless, I cant continue talking with you on this because you type before you think

[Woodrow]

China would never think of attacking US interests because so much of Chinas economy is dependant on USA conmpanies if the USA restircted trade or comapines in China, over 200 million workers could be unemployed. but at the same time the usa is so dependant on chinese workers that is economy would go down a huge amount if it stoped trade wit china, so therefore, i dont believe either country will want to escalate with the other.

Not US companies, those are Chinese companies operating in the US. Very many US companies are now Chinese owned. In this world of international businesses the location of a company no longer means ownership. At the present time something like 1/3 of all the companies in the US are not owned by Americans. But, oddly a large number of American owned businesses are not in the US.

[Count DeSheep]

And the US wont attack NK or even help Taiwan when China takes it over..

At one time in Chinese history, the Communists and the Nationalists fought together against a greater enemy. However, the Nationalists saw fit to betray their Communist allies and make war on them. The Nationalists were soon defeated, and fled to Taiwan. The Communists, of course, got mainland China.

There is no good to come from defending Taiwan, as it was founded as a refuge for backstabbers.

[Keltoi]

At one time in Chinese history, the Communists and the Nationalists fought together against a greater enemy. However, the Nationalists saw fit to betray their Communist allies and make war on them. The Nationalists were soon defeated, and fled to Taiwan. The Communists, of course, got mainland China.

There is no good to come from defending Taiwan, as it was founded as a refuge for backstabbers.

Backstabbers would equal those who disagreed with Mao Zedong's "Glorious Revolution" that starved 15 million people? A Communist program that was later scrapped by Deng Xiaoping. By your statement I assume you think of yourself as a communist....interesting.

[Woodrow]

Communist China had showed not favors to Islam. The Communist revolution in China resulted in the deaths of many thousands of Muslims. The Yangtse river even flooded because of the blocking from all of the bodies.

[Count DeSheep]

Backstabbers would equal those who disagreed with Mao Zedong's "Glorious Revolution" that starved 15 million people?

Backstabbers would equal those who betray their allies. That's exactly what the KMT did to the CCP, and long before Zedong's Cultural Revolution took place. Assuming that you meant the Cultural Revolution. The only thing I could find on a "Glorious Revolution" was: the overthrow of James II of England in 1688 by a union of Parliamentarians and the Dutch stadtholder William III of Orange-Nassau (William of Orange). Moving on.

Taken from Wikipedia's entry on the Chinese Civil War:
In early 1927 the KMT-CCP rivalry led to a split in the revolutionary ranks. The CCP and the left wing of the KMT had decided to move the seat of the Nationalist government from Guangzhou to Wuhan. But Chiang, whose Northern Expedition was proving successful, set his forces out to destroy the Shanghai CCP apparatus.

A little later on in the article:
In December 1949 Chiang proclaimed Taipei, Taiwan, the temporary capital of the Republic of China and continued to assert his government as the sole legitimate authority in China. The last of the fighting ended with the Communist conquest of Hainan Island in May 1950.

From the entry on Mao Zedong:
Facing the prospect of losing his place on the political stage, Mao responded to Liu and Deng's movements by launching the Cultural Revolution in 1966.

By your statement I assume you think of yourself as a communist....interesting.

I do not think of myself as a communist, although a number of communist ideas appeal to me.

Communist China had showed not favors to Islam. The Communist revolution in China resulted in the deaths of many thousands of Muslims. The Yangtse river even flooded because of the blocking from all of the bodies.

Eh? How did Muslims get worked into this? Anyway, I found something on them.
From Islam in China:
...Muslims suffered a decline of their status during the Qing Dynasty. Numerous Hui rebellions, such as the Panthay Rebellion, Muslim Rebellion, sprung up during the Qing Dynasty in reaction to repressionist policies.

Notice that Communist China wasn't even around during the Qing Dynasty. And the Communist government in China recognizes the Hui, a Chinese Muslim group, as an official ethnic group.