format_quote Originally Posted by
Pygoscelis
So then you aknowledge that there is a nature component in human behaviour? Yet you maintain that punishment/reward is still the only dymanic? Can't you see the contradiction? Re read the posts above.
There in no contradiction. People will do good because God created us with a natural inclination to do good. However, you understand of what is good and what is not is not purely based only on your natural inclination, it is also influenced by our environment and upbringing. Though we all wish to do good, we differ as to what is good and what is not.
For example, an atheist might believe there is nothing wrong with a little alcohol here and there, but a Muslim recognises that any amount of alcohol is evil. The atheist thinks that way because of his environment and upbringing, and the Muslims thinks that way because he derives his morals from Islam, not from those around him.
Punishment and reward do come in to it as well. You might consider giving charity to be doing a good deed just for the sake of it, because it is a good deed in and of itself, and personal gain has nothing to do with it, right? But that is not true, there is punishment/reward. The reward is that you are satisfying the natural inclination in yourself, knowing that you have done something good for someone who is needy. That makes you happy, and there is the reward right there, the effect that the act has on your feelings.
On the other hand, being stingy and not giving in charity might make a person feel like a jerk, because he has the natural inclination to do good, that feeling of good is a punishment and is based on the persons natural inclination to do good, the person then recognises that he should give in charity to make the feeling of guilt go away and replace it with the happiness of knowing he helped someone.
If people only behave to seek reward and avoid punishment then there can be no nature, or Fitrah as you say. The sole dynamic would be selfish gratification, no nature involved, no being good for the sake of goodness, etc.
I'm sure he did not mean that it is only one or the other. Give him the benefit of the doubt, he isn't the blood hungry monster you guys are making him out to be.
Do you or do you not behave just to seek rewards from your God? I think that you avoid this part of the posts above because you do not truly behave only to seek reward and avoid punishment but stating so would unravel your posts above.
It is perfection of character to seek reward from God alone, and not from others. Meaning, you do not act only to be seen by others, or to satisfy yourself.
An example of giving in charity purely for the sake of God:
1. You know that God loves charity, and love nothing more than pleasing God.
2. You know that God loves selflessness, and so you strive to be selfless, because you love to please God, knowing that what ever God loves is pure goodness.
3. You see a poor person and because of what you know about God's attitude towards charity, and the fitrah that he has placed in you (i.e. you naturally feel sorry for them), you wish to give them charity, with the following intentions:
a. to please God
b. this secondary intention is like a subset of intention 'a', you want to help the poor because of the natural inclination that God has places in you. In other words, acting to please God does not mean that you don't care about the poor and helping them.
4. Knowing that you are acting only to please God, so you give the charity in secret so that even the person who receives the money doesn't know who gave it to him, and the persons left hand doesn't know what his hand has given. In other words, you want no thanks or reward from the poor themselves, you want your reward from God.
Again, I hope this isn't the ONLY reason you behave kindly towards others.
It isn't, but it is the best reason. Acting good towards others just because we are programmed to act that way doesn't mean much.
I'd just have to find somebody to convince you that Allah wants X and you'd do X no matter how terrible X was.
You would be more evil than him to lie about God to someone who trusts in God, not to mention that the person would have to be very ignorant to believe an atheists that God wants him to do X, and a person who is that devoted to God can not be as ignorant as that.