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IzakHalevas
02-11-2007, 05:49 PM
Do you agree with the statement: "Suicide is murder"?
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Keltoi
02-11-2007, 05:51 PM
I agree. Suicide is intentionally taking a life that God created, not in self-defense or any other "justifiable" circumstances. How could it be anything other than murder?
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Muezzin
02-11-2007, 05:58 PM
I define murder as the unlawful killing of one human being by another. Therefore, I don't agree with the statement, but I do think suicide is a very serious sin, which will be spiritually punished in a very similar way to murder. If the statement were 'euthanasia is murder', I may agree with it.

If this question is designed to lead on to discussing suicide bombing, as I suspect it may be, in that situation suicide and murder occur simultaneously.
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mohammed farah
02-11-2007, 06:01 PM
murder : unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being

suicide : a person who kills himself intentionally

so no i dont agree with the statement
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Kittygyal
02-11-2007, 06:04 PM
Greetings.

No i don't agree with your statement but i agree with ^ above statement.

Alikum
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IzakHalevas
02-11-2007, 06:07 PM
A definition can also be:

To take the life of a person unlawfully

Many would say that to kill yourself is unlawfull. (according to G-d's law) since there are opinions that we are "slaves of G-d" as Muslims say quite often, then are we not killing his property?
Reply

FBI
02-11-2007, 06:13 PM
:sl:

I agree, people think they own their own life in fact this is a gift from allah so to end it in suicide is murder.
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Kittygyal
02-11-2007, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by FBI
:sl:

I agree, people think they own their own life in fact this is a gift from allah so to end it in suicide is murder.
salamualikum.
^ true. our soul will be left in pieces thats why it's not good to get a plaster surgery why? beacuse this is not our body but where just actually using it && looking after it.
M,a'assalama
Reply

duskiness
02-11-2007, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I define murder as the unlawful killing of one human being by another.
you sounds as if you were a lawyer ;) (no offense :D) and from legal point, you are right - murder is prohibited and suicide not.
Even from "religious" pov I think there is a huge difference. Both are sins. Both are taking life, but hey! people don't kill themselves just like that! In most cases they went through depression, feel like there is no way out.
Someone who commits suicide sins, but maybe those who were around him committed bigger sins if they didn't/couldn't save him?
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IzakHalevas
02-11-2007, 06:50 PM
but maybe those who were around him committed bigger sins if they didn't/couldn't save him?
So you are a supporter of the idea of others being responsible for the sins of another?
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duskiness
02-11-2007, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
So you are a supporter of the idea of others being responsible for the sins of another?
No. We all have our sins. But if someone close to you commit suicide, then there is a good chance that you are guilty of somethings you have done or haven't done. That's also a sin.
We are each others keepers, aren't we?

"Men have forgotten this truth," said the fox.
"But you must not forget it.
You become responsible, forever,
for what you have tamed."
"Little Prince" :D
Reply

YusufNoor
02-11-2007, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Do you agree with the statement: "Suicide is murder"?
A`udhu Billahi mina Shaytanir Rajeem,

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

Assalamu 'alaykum,

there may be similarities, but they aren't the same. you MAY live long enough to repent of murder, but with suicide you won't be around for repentance...

nevertheless, i don't recommend either!

:w:
Reply

Pygoscelis
02-12-2007, 03:47 AM
Murder is a legal term. It means Culpable Homocide. Homocide means killing and culpable means unjust (according to societal rules).

So the real question then is whether suicide is unjust. I can't see how it could be, as the person doing the killing is the person being killed. And don't we have a right over our own bodies? If somebody wants to end their life, who are you to deny them this?

The only reason we do/should try to prevent suicides is because often suicidal people are not thinking straight, are under undue stress, or are suffering from mental problems. Help clear those up and then if they still want to end their life, they shouldn't be scoffed at or judged by you.

Mind your own business. Live and Let Die

*enter James Bond*
Reply

north_malaysian
02-12-2007, 03:50 AM
Agree...

Suicide = murdering oneself
Reply

IzakHalevas
02-12-2007, 03:51 AM
And don't we have a right over our own bodies?
A person who believes in G-d might say no, we do not.
Reply

Keltoi
02-12-2007, 03:54 AM
I was speaking in more of a philosophical way about the topic. To me it is murder because one is intentionally and unneccessarily taking a life that God created. However, if I put my secular Republican hat on, it doesn't rise to the level of out and out murder of another human being. So in that sense perhaps it isn't as "evil" as committing true murder of another person.
Reply

Pygoscelis
02-12-2007, 07:07 AM
It is kind of moot point though really, at least from a secular perspective (like mine), as the person is dead. You can't really punish a dead person.

Unless somebody here would advocate trying people who fail a suicide attempt for attempted murder? That just screams injustice to me.
Reply

Malaikah
02-12-2007, 07:12 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Unless somebody here would advocate trying people who fail a suicide attempt for attempted murder? That just screams injustice to me.
Now that is an interesting thought! I've never considered something like that.

Though I think counseling would be more in order.
Reply

syilla
02-12-2007, 07:17 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Now that is an interesting thought! I've never considered something like that.

Though I think counseling would be more in order.
Unless he is a big fat guy...and wanted to jump from 13th storey ontop of group of people (or children). :rolleyes:
Reply

Zulkiflim
02-14-2007, 07:25 AM
Salaam,

I guess that the starter of this threat want us muslim to condemn the murder of Isrealis..

We for me i dont,in the current injustice the Palestinian are fighting as they choose.

Suicide mean to end one life,,,it is that person choice,ultimately between him and Allah..the intent is important.

Murder mean to end an unwilling life,,,unlike euthanasia..the other person is willing to die,of course both will be judged.

But in Islam,Suicide is haram,you cannot harm yourself,thus suicide bomber do so knowing it is haram,but in the end it is between them and Allah.

As for the people murdered in the strike,again did they deserve it?

I would say no.

Nor would i say do Palestinian deserve the tratemnt they recieve under the Isreali regime.

No Justice
No peace.
As you kill you will be kill back
As you hate
You will be hated back..

The Isrealis want muslim to lie down and die willingly for them,
They land they grab is right,wihout considering the lives lost,or how long they lived there..
Reply

abena
05-23-2007, 08:13 AM
before we condemn someone for suicide I think that we need to realize that Allah is allmerciful and all knowing. For many perpetrators of suicide mental illness is the culprit in which case the persons is "sick". Many people don't realize that mental illness is a sickness just as much as diabetes. I know and believe in my heart that the GOD that I worship, Allah swt is all-merciful and would take into account the persons whole situation and soul.
Reply

Muezzin
05-23-2007, 08:15 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
It is kind of moot point though really, at least from a secular perspective (like mine), as the person is dead. You can't really punish a dead person.

Unless somebody here would advocate trying people who fail a suicide attempt for attempted murder? That just screams injustice to me.
Give 'em the death sentence and everybody wins!

....

I'll go away now.
Reply

ranma1/2
05-23-2007, 08:46 AM
no i disagree.
Reply

Panther
05-23-2007, 08:46 AM
^^^ LOL Muezzin.

I disagree rather strong with this statement. I agree with what Pygoscelis has said.
Being an Atheist, it is my belief that our bodies belong to us and us alone.

Funny fact: Here in the UK, it's actually illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide. Imagine suceeding and then being put on trial...

"How does the defendant plead?"
*Silence*
Reply

ranma1/2
05-23-2007, 08:50 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Murder is a legal term. It means Culpable Homocide. Homocide means killing and culpable means unjust (according to societal rules).

So the real question then is whether suicide is unjust. I can't see how it could be, as the person doing the killing is the person being killed. And don't we have a right over our own bodies? If somebody wants to end their life, who are you to deny them this?

The only reason we do/should try to prevent suicides is because often suicidal people are not thinking straight, are under undue stress, or are suffering from mental problems. Help clear those up and then if they still want to end their life, they shouldn't be scoffed at or judged by you.

Mind your own business. Live and Let Die

*enter James Bond*
pretty much agree with you here.
Reply

Snowflake
05-23-2007, 09:07 AM
[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
And don't we have a right over our own bodies? If somebody wants to end their life, who are you to deny them this?
No we don't own our own bodies. How could we when we had no choice in our own creation? We are merely caretakers. Our bodies belong to the One who created them.


The only reason we do/should try to prevent suicides is because often suicidal people are not thinking straight, are under undue stress, or are suffering from mental problems. Help clear those up and then if they still want to end their life, they shouldn't be scoffed at or judged by you.

Mind your own business. Live and Let Die

*enter James Bond*
How can you say we should help suicidal people then end it with live and let die if they still want to do it? How helpful is that? You can't be sure they need more help than you offered but you gave up believing that at the end it's their right to die? Surely it'd be better if you helped them until they didn't want to die - or you didn't try in the first place. Like you said they are not thinking right.

As far as the original question goes, regardless of definition, both acts (murder & suicide) end in taking a life - therefore both are a big sin. But God willing, given the nature of suicide, it's punishment maybe of a lesser degree than taking life by murder which can be premediated and done out of a sound mind.


Another thing comes to mind - about owning our own bodies. Now think.. if a person destroys his property by setting fire to it, he will be charged/punished for arson. Yet, he can salvage the damage because it belongs to him and he has full rights over his property.


But when it comes to life, we don't have that right. We can't bring a suicider back to life to punish him and nor can he fix himself up again. Then what rights do we have over something we are powerless to sustain/fix? If God wanted, He could've given us the ability to bring ourselves or that person back to life and punish them. But He didn't. By limiting our capabilities Allah has proven that life belongs to Him. Unlike worldly property, which we can claim 100% rights over, we can't claim to have rights to our own life when we have no power to sustain it. It simply doesn't make sense.
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-23-2007, 09:16 AM
:sl:

i disagree
Reply

Balthasar21
05-23-2007, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Do you agree with the statement: "Suicide is murder"?


No and this is why .


Main Entry: 1sui·cide
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'sü-&-"sīd
Etymology: Latin sui (general) of oneself + English -cide; akin to Old English & Old High German sīn his, Latin suus one's own, sed, se without, Sanskrit sva oneself, one's own
1 a : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind b : ruin of one's own interests <political suicide>
2 : one that commits or attempts suicide


Main Entry: 1mur·der
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'm&r-d&r
Etymology: partly from Middle English murther, from Old English morthor; partly from Middle English murdre, from Old French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English morthor; akin to Old High German mord murder, Latin mort-, mors death, mori to die, mortuus dead, Greek brotos mortal
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2 a : something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder> b : something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder>
Reply

Balthasar21
05-23-2007, 03:14 PM
Suicide - bomb&#183;er


Main Entry: 1sui&#183;cide
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 's&#252;-&-"sīd
Etymology: Latin sui (general) of oneself + English -cide; akin to Old English & Old High German sīn his, Latin suus one's own, sed, se without, Sanskrit sva oneself, one's own
1 a : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind b : ruin of one's own interests <political suicide>
2 : one that commits or attempts suicide


Main Entry: 1mur&#183;der
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'm&r-d&r
Etymology: partly from Middle English murther, from Old English morthor; partly from Middle English murdre, from Old French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English morthor; akin to Old High German mord murder, Latin mort-, mors death, mori to die, mortuus dead, Greek brotos mortal
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2 a : something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder> b : something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder>



Main Entry: bomb&#183;er
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'b&#228;-m&r
1 : one that bombs ; specifically : an airplane designed for bombing


Main Entry: bomber jacket
Function: noun
: a zippered usually leather jacket with front pockets and knitted cuffs and waistband



As you can see they have diffrent meaning . See how they can play with your mind . It call geting people to accept thing made up to hate other's by labeling them
Reply

Amadeus85
05-23-2007, 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

I guess that the starter of this threat want us muslim to condemn the murder of Isrealis..

We for me i dont,in the current injustice the Palestinian are fighting as they choose.

Suicide mean to end one life,,,it is that person choice,ultimately between him and Allah..the intent is important.

Murder mean to end an unwilling life,,,unlike euthanasia..the other person is willing to die,of course both will be judged.

But in Islam,Suicide is haram,you cannot harm yourself,thus suicide bomber do so knowing it is haram,but in the end it is between them and Allah.

As for the people murdered in the strike,again did they deserve it?

I would say no.

Nor would i say do Palestinian deserve the tratemnt they recieve under the Isreali regime.

No Justice
No peace.
As you kill you will be kill back
As you hate
You will be hated back..

The Isrealis want muslim to lie down and die willingly for them,
They land they grab is right,wihout considering the lives lost,or how long they lived there..

The suicide bombers.. Topic so famous and popular nowadays in world. I think that the biggest mistake is talking about suicide bombers as heroes. Because killing ourself is the most coward way to end all problems and troubles that a man may have. I think that only people very weak can commit suicide. Because everyone wants to live, even if this life is great burden for us. It is easier to commit suicide than to face the troubles and try to solve it.

How we can call those who commit suicide bombings heroes? Those who wear pounds of explosive materials on them, get on the bus in the biggest traffic, full of women and children and detonate it in act of revenge against this country goverment or army actions.

I think that a real warrior, a real freedom fighter, a real man would rather shot himself in head than to kill innocent civilians.

And i am not talking only about Israel, but also about other places where suicide bombers act, and they are not in highlights in tv or media, like Philipinnes, Thailand.
Reply

guyabano
05-23-2007, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Do you agree with the statement: "Suicide is murder"?
Absolutely agree !
Reply

lilah
05-24-2007, 10:45 PM
some hadith on suicide

there is none:

Bukhari 2:445
Narrated Thabit bin Ad Dahhak
The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "Whoever intentionally swears falsely by a religion other than
Islam, then he is what he has said, (e.g. if he says, 'If such thing is not true then I am a
Jew,' he is really a Jew). And whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished
with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire." Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was
inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused
death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him."
Bukhari 2:446
Narrated Abu Huraira

The Prophet said, "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in
the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on
stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire."
Bukhari 4:297
Narrated Abu Huraira


We were in the company of Allah's Apostle in a ghazwa, and he remarked about a man who
claimed to be a Muslim, saying, "This (man) is from the people of the (Hell) Fire." When the
battle started, the man fought violently till he got wounded. Somebody said, "O Allah's
Apostle! The man whom you described as being from the people of the (Hell) Fire fought
violently today and died." The Prophet said, "He will go to the (Hell) Fire." Some people
were on the point of doubting (the truth of what the Prophet had said) while they were in
this state, suddenly someone said that he was still alive but severely wounded. When
night fell, he lost patience and committed suicide. The Prophet was informed of that, and
he said, "Allah is Greater! I testify that I am Allah's Slave and His Apostle." Then he ordered
Bilal to announce amongst the people: "None will enter Paradise but a Muslim, and Allah
may support this religion (i.e. Islam) even with a disobedient man."
Reply

HBot 5000
05-25-2007, 08:10 AM
Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
Do you agree with the statement: "Suicide is murder"?
:sl:

murder : unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being
suicide : a person who kills himself intentionally


I don't agree with your statement. However i know what you are implying, perhaps the statement should be:

"If one commits suicide and kills another by his action would this be classed as murder?"

Yup. :X

:w:
Reply

skhalid
05-25-2007, 08:19 AM
I agree because taking a life is categorized to be murder,so even if it is the person harming themselves it should be seen as murder still, going against what Allah had said, only he has a right to take away what has been given to you.
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