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AvarAllahNoor
02-12-2007, 07:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
that is what i thought,

i kept reading though that sikhs reject rituals but yet they are doing rituals and hence my confusion.

can you pm me any articles on the difference in feeling here between ritual and blind ritual? others have contradicted you that is all.

but i would say all would say they are against blind ritual without understanding the reasons for it etc. this isnt something particular to sikhi.

Abu Abdullah

1 - anDhaa kachaa kach nikach. ||1|| rahaa-o.

If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?

2 - mannai mag na chalai panth.

The faithful do not follow empty religious rituals.


3 - manmukh karam kamaavnay ji-o dohaagan tan seegaar.
The self-willed manmukh performs religious rituals, like the unwanted bride decorating her body.

Meaningless rituals such as going hajj, bathing in the ganges because this apparently 'cleanses the soul'
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
02-12-2007, 09:48 PM
Meaningless rituals such as hajj? Dude, you serious?
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AvarAllahNoor
02-12-2007, 11:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
Meaningless rituals such as hajj? Dude, you serious?
Yes sister I am - What is the benefit of it and what purpose does it serve? How does it bring you closer to Allah
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
02-13-2007, 12:03 AM
Hajj is a symbol of submission to Allah and Muslim Unity.

Allah says: “And (remember) when We showed Ibraheem u the site of the House (saying): 'Associate not anything with Me, and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it, and those who stand up (for prayer), and those who bow and make prostration (in prayer).” [Soorah al-Hajj (22): 26-27]

This verse signifies the purpose of Hajj, it being, the worship of Allah. Allah, the Exalted ordered Ibraheem (alaihis-salaam) to build the Kaa'ba and call people to circumambulate it, and stand up (for prayer), bow down and make prostration (in prayer) to Allah (alone). Therefore, one who performs Hajj is required to sincerely worship Allah and associate none as partners with Him; seek His help, forgiveness and Taqwa.

Anyways, back to topic :X
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 12:12 AM
Why is it towards the Kaaba? If you worship Allah, then is he not everywhere?

What does it mean ''My House'' is that Allahs house, where he resides?
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-13-2007, 12:36 AM
:sl:

Posts moved here, discussion on Hajj can take place here.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
02-13-2007, 01:22 AM
Significance of the Ka`bah

Question

Dear scholars, As-Salamu `alaykum. What is the significance of the Ka`bah? I converted to Islam last year by marriage, and a non-believer told me that Muslims go to Hajj just to touch the stone. Is this true? If not, why is it that all Muslims pray toward the Ka`bah and toward the East? I would like to learn more about my religion so when someone tells me something like this, I can tell them the truth about Islam. Jazakum Allah khayran.

Answer


Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner, thank you very much for raising this question, which reflects a good understanding and truthful desire to have a clearer view of the teachings of Islam. May Allah crown this truthful desire with His satisfaction and reward.


The Ka`bah is the first and the most ancient house of worship ever built for all mankind and it was dedicated to the worship of one God. So by facing toward the Ka`bah in our prayers, we are stressing the unity of mankind under the Lordship of the One and only God. Moreover, by facing toward the Ka`bah, we are stressing the concept of Allah, the Almighty being the center of our lives.
Responding to the question in point, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and an Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

Allah says in the Qur’an, (The first sanctuary ever built for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples.) (Aal `Imran 3:96). Thus, by ordering us to face towards the Ka`bah, we are taken back to our Adamic roots. One of the most essential messages of Islam is to break the barriers such as race, language and ethnicity, etc. that separate human beings from one another by stressing their common origin in Adam and Eve. We need not emphasize the fact that racism is the scourge of humanity in all times. Thus, through its entire teachings, Islam cuts at the root of this menace. It is no wonder then that all of the Islamic rituals of worship stress equality and egalitarianism rather than division and distinction based on caste, clan or status. One of the last messages delivered by the Prophet during his farewell pilgrimage was, “O people, (through Islam) Allah has abolished from your hearts your boasting on your ancestors. Remember all of you are descended from Adam and Adam is created from the dust of the ground.”

Islam teaches us to worship one and only God. Unlike all other religions, which tend to revere their founders excessively often to the point of worshiping them, Allah makes the Prophet Muhammad to declare: “I am only a human being like you …”

Therefore, nothing is farther from the truth than stating that Muslims undertake the Pilgrimage (Hajj) to touch the black stone or the Ka`bah. They are going to undertake the Hajj, which is one of the five pillars of Islam.

While it is true that while going around the Ka`bah, some pilgrims may touch the black stone, doing so is not an integral rite of Hajj. It is therefore totally absurd and incorrect to say that Muslims go to Makkah to touch the stone.

Touching the stone is a mere symbolic act; it is merely intended to symbolize the beginning of the ritual of circumambulation around the Sacred House. In this context, it is worth remembering what the Caliph `Umar said while touching the black stone: “I know for a certain fact that you are simply a stone; you have no power to benefit or harm anyone; if I hadn’t seen the Prophet touching you I wouldn’t have even bothered to touch you.”

We do not attach any importance to this stone other than the fact that it was placed there by Prophet Ibrahim by the order of Allah. So we are merely renewing our memory of the great Prophet, whose faith and sacrifice is celebrated in the rituals of Hajj.

If anyone is telling you otherwise, he is distorting Islam. Anyway, a non-Muslim is not the source to learn about Islam. The source for Islam is the Qur’an and the Sunnah and those who are well versed in these sources.

Finally, it is not true to say that Muslims always turn to the East; rather they always turn towards the Ka`bah while performing their prayers, and its precise direction may be different, depending on where we are located in the world.

The Ka`bah is the first and the most ancient house of worship ever built for all of humankind and dedicated to the worship of one God. So by facing toward the Ka`bah in our prayers, we are stressing the unity of humankind under the Lordship of the One and only God. Moreover, by facing toward the Ka`bah, we are stressing the idea of centrality of God in our life.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...FHajjE%2FHajjE

As for the second part your question, I don't exactly have the answer to that. I think I know it, but I won't risk giving you the wrong information.
Insha'Allah someone else can answer for you.
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Malaikah
02-13-2007, 01:39 AM
Hold on, aren't you the one who boast's that your Guru went on Hajj? ^o)

All you have to do is listen to the testimonies of people who have been on Hajj, and you will realise it is the most life changing experience a person can have. They love it, and it makes them much better Muslims. :thumbs_up

It isn't something easy- it involves sacrifice, for example, of ones money to buy a plane ticket etc. It takes a lot of patience, perseverance, it is a test and allows the strong Muslims to show themselves to be as such, because they will undertake all the hardship of hajj, (and still enjoy it and be changed by it, for the better), purely for the sake of God.

And not to mention that it erases all of ones sins! :D

And, no, Allah does not live in the Ka'ba, but it is His house, i.e. it is attributed to Him by way of honour. It is a sacred/holy place.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
02-13-2007, 01:48 AM
I'm not sure if this is right. But where the Ka'ba resides, isn't that where supposedly the Throne of Allah(swt) is, in Jannah? Like the position, cuz the Ka'ba is in the center of the world... I'm not sure where I've heard this.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 01:50 AM
You mean Boasts sister....

Anyway where did I say Guru Nanak did pacarma (circle the Kaaba)? He went in and did his job as instructed by God! - He didnt' touch the Kaaba, instead the Kaaba moved where his feet were. You do that math!

Gur Fateh!
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Malaikah
02-13-2007, 01:51 AM
I think the Ka'bah equivalent of the heavens, where the angels pray, is 'on top' of the Ka'bah...

Either way, God doesn't live in the Ka'bah! :p He is established on His Throne in a manner that befits Him best, subhannahu wa ta'ala.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 01:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Hold on, aren't you the one who boost's that your Guru went on Hajj? ^o)

All you have to do is listen to the testimonies of people who have been on Hajj, and you will realise it is the most life changing experience a person can have. They love it, and it makes them much better Muslims. :thumbs_up

It isn't something easy- it involves sacrifice, for example, of ones money to buy a plane ticket etc. It takes a lot of patience, perseverance, it is a test and allows the strong Muslims to show themselves to be as such, because they will undertake all the hardship of hajj, (and still enjoy it and be changed by it, for the better), purely for the sake of God.

And not to mention that it erases all of ones sins! :D

And, no, Allah does not live in the Ka'ba, but it is His house, i.e. it is attributed to Him by way of honour. It is a sacred/holy place.
lol - So your belief is like that of hindus, bathing in th ganges. They too claim all sins are washed away by taking a bath. You're saying by going to see the Kaaba, sins are washed. Can anyone verify this please. Does the Quran state it?
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 01:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
I think the Ka'bah equivalent of the heavens, where the angels pray, is 'on top' of the Ka'bah...

E.
lol any Quran verses to back up?
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Malaikah
02-13-2007, 01:59 AM
Can you please not belittle on of the most imporant aspects of Islam?

Hajj is a lot more than just looking at the Ka'bah.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 02:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Can you please not belittle on of the most imporant aspects of Islam?

Hajj is a lot more than just looking at the Ka'bah.
Sorry - But this is what ritualistic practices duwad wanted to know of
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Malaikah
02-13-2007, 02:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
lol - So your belief is like that of hindus, bathing in th ganges. They too claim all sins are washed away by taking a bath. You're saying by going to see the Kaaba, sins are washed. Can anyone verify this please. Does the Quran state it?
“And Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) to the House (Ka‘bah) is a duty that mankind owes to Allaah, those who can afford the expenses (for one’s conveyance, provision and residence); and whoever disbelieves [i.e. denies Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah), then he is a disbeliever of Allaah], then Allaah stands not in need of any of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”
[Aal Imraan 3:97]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does Hajj for the sake of Allaah, and does not have sexual relations or commit sins, will come back like the day his mother bore him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 15210)

(i.e. sinless)

I couldn't find a verse, it might not be in the Quran, I do not know, but it is in an authentic hadith.

format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
lol any Quran verses to back up?
"Then I was taken up to the Much-Frequented House: every day seventy thousand angels visit it and leave, never returning to it again, another [group] coming after them." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, Fath, no. 3207).

That is the place I was referring too, I do not have any other references about it.
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Malaikah
02-13-2007, 02:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Sorry - But this is what ritualistic practices duwad wanted to know of
If you think Hajj is pure rituals, you are wrong, because the rituals have great meaning attached to them. It isn't, just do this and then your over.

I betters a person spiritually.

Perhaps something you might not realise about Islam, is that God requires us to do things. This is because anyone can claim to love God and be a great Muslims when all you have to do is just say 'I believe' or something. But if that were so, how would God differentiate between the good Muslims and the hypocrites? The answer is through our actions, because the hypocrite hates to act in the way God asked him to, whereas the strong Muslims rushes to do as God orders.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-13-2007, 02:09 AM
How can one understand the significance of the Hajj when one doesn't understand the implications of the Worship of One God, i.e. pure monothiesm?

Hajj demonstrates the essence of Islaam which is belief in One God. Allaah alone. All the ceremonies a pilgrim performs, all the places through which he goes during Hajj reminds him of a great deal of history of this belief, Tawheed (Islamic Monotheism).

When one goes on Hajj he meets his brothers from around the world, and what is stronger there than the bond of brotherhood that is among the people performing the Hajj? You'll find even the kings there equal to the peasant, the rich equal to the poor.

lol - So your belief is like that of hindus, bathing in th ganges. They too claim all sins are washed away by taking a bath. You're saying by going to see the Kaaba, sins are washed. Can anyone verify this please. Does the Quran state it?
What I find with reading your posts is that you seem to be asking questions and the same time mocking the questioner and his beliefs with your use of phrases such as 'lol'. Secondly, you are decieving yourself by only asking proof from the Qur'an. The Ahadith and the Way of the Prophet is an equal source in Islam.

Thirdly, it is not by seeing the Kaabah that sins are forgiven. It is by completing Hajj, for the sake of God, free of any showing off, to the best of abilities which earns the pilgrim the forgiveness of Allah.

lol any Quran verses to back up?
Same as before. Cut it out with the 'lol' or your posts wont be taken seriously. And again, the Sunnah is an equal source to the Qur'an.

The House is mentioned in the Qur'an:

42: 4. And by the
Bait-ul-Ma'mur..

And this is explained in the Ahadith:

...(The gate) was opened for us and there I found Ibrahim (Abraham peace be upon him) reclining against the Bait-ul-Ma'mur and there enter into it seventy thousand angels every day, never to visit (this place) again...{Muslim-Book 1-Hadith 309}

The Hadith is much longer but above is the relevent part. There are other similar authentic narrations.

Regards.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 02:13 AM
Ahadith, is that the hadiths? If not, i'm not aware of it.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-13-2007, 02:15 AM
Yes. Hadith is singular, Ahadith is plural.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 02:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Madani
Yes. Hadith is singular, Ahadith is plural.
And this is found in the Quran?
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Malaikah
02-13-2007, 02:28 AM
No, the hadiths are not found in the Quran, they are different. The Quran is one thing and the hadiths are another. The Quran is written in one book, and the hadiths are collected in other books.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-13-2007, 02:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
And this is found in the Quran?
These are basic arabic words, they don't need to be found in the Qur'an! Please stick to the topic.
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north_malaysian
02-13-2007, 04:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
He didnt' touch the Kaaba, instead the Kaaba moved where his feet were. You do that math!!
Kaabah moving? That must be very dangerous... I wonder how many pilgrims were injured if not dead as the Kaabah was moving...:uuh:

Maybe we should search any historical records of Kaabah moving...
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Malaikah
02-13-2007, 05:23 AM
^LOL! exactly what I thought... something as massive as the Ka'bah, shouldn't someone have been killed?
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north_malaysian
02-13-2007, 08:40 AM
In which year Guru Nanak went to Mecca, is it during Hajj period?
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 03:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Kaabah moving? That must be very dangerous... I wonder how many pilgrims were injured if not dead as the Kaabah was moving...:uuh:

Maybe we should search any historical records of Kaabah moving...
I see, now you're mocking Dhan Guru Nanak dev ji eh?
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
02-13-2007, 03:53 PM
no, it jus doesnt make sense :X
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tayyaba
no, it jus doesnt make sense :X
Neither does the spiltting of the moon by Mohammed, but I don't mock it! :smile:
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-13-2007, 06:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Neither does the spiltting of the moon by Mohammed, but I don't mock it! :smile:
Using that event shows your bias. The splitting of the moon was recorded by authentic sources. However there exist no authentic sources that say the Kabah moved. Using this is only a display of your ignorance of Islam and your unwillingness to remove that ignorance.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 06:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Madani
Using that event shows your bias. The splitting of the moon was recorded by authentic sources. However there exist no authentic sources that say the Kabah moved. Using this is only a display of your ignorance of Islam and your unwillingness to remove that ignorance.
Authentic to whom? Muslims?

Sikhs have docomented evidence. By Guru Nanaks closest companion.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-13-2007, 06:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Authentic to whom? Muslims?

Sikhs have docomented evidence. By Guru Nanaks closest companion.
Amazing, one companion can relate everything. So you base your religion on what has been transmitted from one man?
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-13-2007, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Authentic to whom? Muslims?

Sikhs have docomented evidence. By Guru Nanaks closest companion.
Amazing, one companion can relate everything. So you base you religion on what has been transmitted from one man?
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Madani
Amazing, one companion can relate everything. So you base your religion on what has been transmitted from one man?
Erm no! - We have various. Would you like to see?
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- Qatada -
02-13-2007, 06:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Authentic to whom? Muslims?

Sikhs have docomented evidence. By Guru Nanaks closest companion.

SPLITTING OF MOON


* According to the scripture Kalki Avtaar will split the moon.
Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) showed this miracle 1,400 ago. For reference see

"The hour drew night and moon rend (split) in twain ..." Holy Quran (54:1-3)


For more details about moon splitting please study the hadiths of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) (Volume 4, book 56, number 830-832 and volume 5, book 58, number 209-211)


According to these hadiths" the people of Makkah asked Allah's Apostle to show a miracle (sign of his Prophecy). So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram Mountain"


There is an interesting tradition in India. Bhoj was an Indian king, there is still city Bhoj on his name in the territory of Kachh (Gujrat). Raja was born after so many years of Bhavish Puran during the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). One night he saw moon splitting in two, he asked the Pundits, they studied the Vedas and Puranas, and told the king that this is the miracle of last prophet, when king asked the signs or descriptions of the Prophet, they told," He will be from the city of peace (Makkah) and will be born in the house of a religious saint, his name will be "Narashansah" (praise one: Muhammad in Arabic), he will have four Khulafa and have 12 wifes ". In search of Narashansah, he came to know that he appeared in Makkah. He met with him and embraced Islam at the hand of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and prophet gave him the name Abdullah, when he came back to home his family did not accept him. He spend his whole life in remembering Prophet and in worship of one God.


For reference:

(Dr. Kamala Kant Tewari's book "Kalyuge Ke Antim Rishi" Page5, he took this from Pundit Dharm Ved Apadhye's book "Antim Ishwar Doot" page 97). So Raja was the first Indian who embraced Islam.

http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...ticle&raid=275

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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 07:54 PM
Kalki Avtaar is hindu thought Sikhi does not believe such a thing. but some do. Nothing in SGGS,
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- Qatada -
02-13-2007, 08:35 PM
That's sufficient because it's from another culture and faith. :)



Regards.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2007, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
That's sufficient because it's from another culture and faith. :)

Regards.
But he's to come in the future, Mohammed has been!
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- Qatada -
02-13-2007, 08:49 PM
We were talking about Bhavish Puran :) Kalki Avtaar is also proved on the link which i mentioned earlier:



NAME OF KALKI AVTAR

* According to Kalki Puran the name of Kalki Avtar will be "SARWANAMA".
The meaning of "ANAMA" is praised one and "SARW" mean most of all, so "Sarwanama" means the most praised one and in Arabic language "Muhammad " has the same meaning, if we translate Sanskrit word Sarwanama in to Arabic language it will be "Muhammad" only difference is the language.



PARENTS OF KALKI AVTAR

* "He will be born from "SOOMATI" and his father's name will be "VAISHNUVESH"." (Kalki Puran 2, Shloka II)
VAISHNUVESH and SOOMATI means servant of God (the cherisher) and peace, respectively. Prophet Muhammad father's name was ABDULLAH in Arabic language, which means God's servant, and his mother's name was AMINA in Arabic language, which means peace, so if we translate Sanskrit word "Vaishnuvesh & Soomati" in Arabic language it will be "Abdullah & Amina". So again the difference of language.



PLACE OF BIRTH

* "HE will be born at "SHAMBAL GARAM" in VAISHNUVESH'S Brahmin Mahant's (religious saint) respectable house" (Bhagwat Puran, Khand 12, Shloka 18 and Kalki Puran Adhay 2, Shloka 4)

SHAMBAL mean peace and GARAM mean city or village, so SHAMBAL GARAM means a peace full city or city of peace, and this quality & name has been specified only for Arabia's city "MAKKAH" no other city in the world has been named city of peace. In the Holy Quran this city has been called as "ALBALAD ALAMEEN" which mean peace full city or city of peace. For reference see Holy Quran (14:35) O God, make it (Makkah) a City of Peace". And Makkah is the city where prophet Muhammad (PBUH) born.
VAISHNU-VESH, Vaishnu is actually God's name and VESH means servant or BHAGAT and man, Vaishnuvesh mean God's servant or God's devotee and in Arabic language ABDULLAH has the same meanings.

BRAHMIN MAHANT mean religious saint and Makkah's religious and respectable saint was "Hasham", then "Mutlib", then Hasham's son "Abdul Mutlib" became the religious saint of Makkah, who was the grand father of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and during the period of religious saint Muhammad was born in home of Abdullah son of Abdul Mutlib. In short, Muhammad was born in the respectable tribe of Quraish who enjoyed great respect and high place in Makkah. So according to scripture Kalki Avtar will be born in Brahmin Mahant's (religious saint) respectable family.





DATE OF BIRTH OF KALKI AVTAR


* He will be born in the month of Bisakh on 12th day (Kalki Puran Adhay 2, Shloka 15)

Baisakh is famous month in Hindi, which is still known with this name. According to Hindi calendar Muhammad was born on 12th Baisakh of 628 Bakrami, and this day according to Arabic calendar is 12th Rabiyyyul Awwal. So the date of birth matches with Kalki Avtar.





THE PERIOD OF KALKI AVTAR


* Kalki Avtar would ride horse, camel and keep the sword to kill the devil and enemies of religion.


It mean that Kalki Avtar will be born in the past time when horse and camel were used for riding and sword was being used for fight. And in this period and in the coming future people will use cars, train & planes for riding and guns, missiles will be use for fighting. So it is now useless to wait for Avtar in future. We should not forget that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was borne during the time of horse & camel, and he fought with sword during battles against infidels.



DEATH OF KALKI AVTAR'S PARENTS

* Kalki Avtar's Father will die before his birth and his Mother will die after few years of his birth. (Kalki Puran, Bhaghwat Puran Khand 12)
These two indications clearly fit on Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). His Father died few days earlier of his birth and his Mother died when Muhammad was only six year old. For reference please study the life history of prophet Muhammad (PBUH).



KALKI AVTAR WILL GET WISDOM ON A MOUNTAIN

* According to Kalki Puran, the Kalki Avtar will receive wisdom or knowledge on a mountain's cave from PERSHURAM (angle).
As every one knows that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was busy in his pray in a cave of mountain "HIRA" and there one day an Angle (Gabriel) appeared and brought the first revelation from God. For reference Holy Quran (96:1) "Read (Prophet Muhammad) with the name of Allah" and he replied " I am not learned" the same indication was given in the Christian's scripture (Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12) " and the book delivered to him that is not learned, saying " Read this", I pray thee: and he said, I am not learned", this is another prove of his prophecy. So prophet Muhammad received his first revelation in the cave of mountain HIRA. And this prediction also fit on him.





PREACHING, IRRITATION, MIGRATION AND RETURN TO HIS CITY


* It is further written in the kalki Puran that " Kalki avtar will start his preaching from the city SHAMBHAL GARAM (Makkah: city of peace) which is situated in SALAM DEEP (Jazeeratul Arab), but people of that city will be against him and irritate him, so he will migrate to another city (Madina) which will be covered with mountains. Then after few years, he will be returned to his city with sword and conquer the city and the whole country."

This prediction also fit on Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). He started his preaching from Makkah (city of peace), which is situated in Jazeeratul Arab (salam deep), when people of Makkah tried to irritate him he migrated towards the city covered with mountains (Madina) with his companions. And after few years he came back with sword and his 10,000 companions and conquered the city Makkah and after that the whole Arab. For reference please study life history of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and this incidence is famous with the name of " Fateh Makkah" in the Islamic history.



A FLYING HORSE FROM GOD

* He will receive a flying horse from God, which will be faster than lightning. Riding it he will go around earth and seven skies" (Bhagwat Puran Khand 12, Adhay 2, Shloka19-20)
This prediction is about Kalki Avtar also match with the Incidence of "MIRAJ" For reference see Holy Quran (17.1) and for detail Hadith s of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) regarding Incidence of Miraj. According to these references Prophet Muhammad traveled the seven skies and there he met with previous Prophets, and for this God gave him a horse name BARQ which mean lightning and word Miraj mean height and ladder. Please study life history of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) for details.






More are mentioned here:
http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...ticle&raid=275

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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
02-13-2007, 08:54 PM
Aren't we kinda off topic now:?
JazakAllah for the info though.
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starfortress
02-13-2007, 09:57 PM
Significance of Hajj?
For me the hajj rituals are beyond or more than significance,of course one of the sign from Allah s.w.t to proves that Islam is universal.To see the Arabs,Persian,English,Malay,Indon,Chechen,African, Chinese(what else, name it) doing the same the same thing alongside together is sufficient to make me happy or more than happy,who cares about significance.

What a big deal,when we as human like to practice insignificance actions,but as a Muslim we truly know which is prohibitted which is allowed.Then we should ask why did people climbed the Everest?you'll heard many answers.So does the Hajj.One thing not to forget Islam's not forcing its Ummah to death to perform the Hajj rituals,unless mentally and physically ready.(Every able-bodied Muslim who can afford to do so is obliged to make the pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in his or her lifetime.)

I like to take Malaysian old citizens experience about their Pilgrimage to Mecca as example,most of them are settled far from major cities and never saw outsides world,so not a chance to chat with them about a foreign cultures before their journeys for Hajj was made.So where is the significance element in that point of view.Its subjective when it involved with 3 million figures.

Traditionally, pilgrims travel to Mecca in groups with their friends or family, or people from their local mosque as an expression of unity.
Many Muslims regard the Hajj as one of the great achievements of civilization, because it brings together people from around the world and focuses them upon a single goal: completing the Hajj.
I love Unity of Ummah.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-14-2007, 12:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
We were talking about Bhavish Puran :) Kalki Avtaar is also proved on the link which i mentioned earlier:
Well if you're using Hindu scriptures to prove a point. Here is the Prophecy of Guru Nanaks coming in the Vedas! :smile:


1. In the Hindu epic the RIG VEDA

(i) In Mandala 7, Ush 5, Mantra 5 and Chapter 6

"Bee chakram prithoi aishai ta khestraaeh Vishnu mansai das sayaan
throvaah so asaya keeryo janaas oeroo khashatra so janama
chakaar (8)"

meaning

"when in the world the sinful ways will be on the rise and noble behavior will vanish, as the disappearance of the moon when on its wane on the darkest night, there will appear Vishnu as a prominent Prophet from the Keshatra Clan and will manifest in consecutive form through 10 Prophets to bring back the ways of virtue to the ailing world."

(ii) In the same Vedas, in another part even in the name NANAK and the clan he belongs to is recorded thus -

"Sri Nanak gureng vareng saklaath heythoo. Heitha samasth jagathaa va veithee kaetheng"

meaning

"For the preaching of religious ways and the earning of good karma, there will manifest Guru NANAK from the clan of the Veithees"


3. In the BHAVEKHATH PURANA

"BHAVEKHATH" means "future foretelling". There are numerous places in this famous Hindu epic where the advent of Guru NANAK is directly alluded to. These instances are listed hereunder -

(i)

"Theraa bhaareng thereshtwah keli krethem maha krethyaa. Aeveng vaee
tharam parchaariang bhavekhthee thaa kalau. Thatha vei
loka rakheiaartheng maleishana naas heithwei paschmeitlheng subh
theisay vath wensei chei Nanaka naam nach rekhiang brahem
geaanaik manas bhavekhet kaloe skunth thatar verth kaleaah har (35)."

meaning

"In the Kali Yuga when goodness in the world is deteriorating there
will appear a Prophet from the Beithi clan named NANAK
who from birth will be endowed with extra-ordinary spiritual power.
He will preach on the nobility of life and the eradication of
the sinful ways"

(ii) In another portion of this book the following short cogent quotation supplies further pertinent information on the advent of Nanak

"Guru thaa Brahma, Guru raa Vishnu, Guru raa dev maheshra saakhyaar
Parbrehem Thasmei NANAK nameh"

meaning

"The Guru of the prophets, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv ji is God
almighty himself. This very Creator will manifest itself as a human,
in the form of one whose name will be NANAK

Note the clarity and explicitness in which the coming of Nanak is predicted.

(iii) Further down in this book is recorded the following detailed assertiveness about Nanak and the type of mission and work he shall perform. It appears to emanate from the Godhead itself.

"The Kali Yuga shall dawn on Earth with radical manifestation of destruction of Karma and Dharma to such an extent that every situation shall be colored by sinful activities. At that distressful moment, the Creator shall send down a spiritual luminary in the form of NANAK from the Khatria clan. He will spread the message of NAAM, the Holy life Force, by introducing the primacy of meditation and thus washing clean the sinful ways by the waters of love."

Note the beautiful and comprehensive description of the happening.

(iv) There is yet another quotation from this same Bhavekhath Purana indicative of Nanak and the 9 prophets that consecutively followed his lineage : -

Are you going to refute this? Because that would hypocritcal
Reply

One Man Army
02-14-2007, 01:09 AM
im sure that the kabah has been destroyed and rebuilt numerous amounts of times...?

does Allah live their or reside their?
Reply

Malaikah
02-14-2007, 01:17 AM
^It was rebuilt a few times, yes.

And NO, Allah swt does NOT live on the Ka'bah, as if the Ka'bah can contain Him!

It is attributed to Him by way of honour, to show that it is a very important place.
Reply

north_malaysian
02-14-2007, 04:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ultimate truth
im sure that the kabah has been destroyed and rebuilt numerous amounts of times...?
Yes... those incidents were been recorded since pre-Islamic time, that's why I asked when the Kaabah moved because maybe we can check it in the historical records

format_quote Originally Posted by ultimate truth
does Allah live their or reside their?
Nope. Decades ago, Muslims were allowed to perform prayer inside kaabah..
Reply

One Man Army
02-15-2007, 12:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Well if you're using Hindu scriptures to prove a point. Here is the Prophecy of Guru Nanaks coming in the Vedas! :smile:


1. In the Hindu epic the RIG VEDA

(i) In Mandala 7, Ush 5, Mantra 5 and Chapter 6

"Bee chakram prithoi aishai ta khestraaeh Vishnu mansai das sayaan
throvaah so asaya keeryo janaas oeroo khashatra so janama
chakaar (8)"

meaning

"when in the world the sinful ways will be on the rise and noble behavior will vanish, as the disappearance of the moon when on its wane on the darkest night, there will appear Vishnu as a prominent Prophet from the Keshatra Clan and will manifest in consecutive form through 10 Prophets to bring back the ways of virtue to the ailing world."

(ii) In the same Vedas, in another part even in the name NANAK and the clan he belongs to is recorded thus -

"Sri Nanak gureng vareng saklaath heythoo. Heitha samasth jagathaa va veithee kaetheng"

meaning

"For the preaching of religious ways and the earning of good karma, there will manifest Guru NANAK from the clan of the Veithees"


3. In the BHAVEKHATH PURANA

"BHAVEKHATH" means "future foretelling". There are numerous places in this famous Hindu epic where the advent of Guru NANAK is directly alluded to. These instances are listed hereunder -

(i)

"Theraa bhaareng thereshtwah keli krethem maha krethyaa. Aeveng vaee
tharam parchaariang bhavekhthee thaa kalau. Thatha vei
loka rakheiaartheng maleishana naas heithwei paschmeitlheng subh
theisay vath wensei chei Nanaka naam nach rekhiang brahem
geaanaik manas bhavekhet kaloe skunth thatar verth kaleaah har (35)."

meaning

"In the Kali Yuga when goodness in the world is deteriorating there
will appear a Prophet from the Beithi clan named NANAK
who from birth will be endowed with extra-ordinary spiritual power.
He will preach on the nobility of life and the eradication of
the sinful ways"

(ii) In another portion of this book the following short cogent quotation supplies further pertinent information on the advent of Nanak

"Guru thaa Brahma, Guru raa Vishnu, Guru raa dev maheshra saakhyaar
Parbrehem Thasmei NANAK nameh"

meaning

"The Guru of the prophets, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv ji is God
almighty himself. This very Creator will manifest itself as a human,
in the form of one whose name will be NANAK

Note the clarity and explicitness in which the coming of Nanak is predicted.

(iii) Further down in this book is recorded the following detailed assertiveness about Nanak and the type of mission and work he shall perform. It appears to emanate from the Godhead itself.

"The Kali Yuga shall dawn on Earth with radical manifestation of destruction of Karma and Dharma to such an extent that every situation shall be colored by sinful activities. At that distressful moment, the Creator shall send down a spiritual luminary in the form of NANAK from the Khatria clan. He will spread the message of NAAM, the Holy life Force, by introducing the primacy of meditation and thus washing clean the sinful ways by the waters of love."

Note the beautiful and comprehensive description of the happening.

(iv) There is yet another quotation from this same Bhavekhath Purana indicative of Nanak and the 9 prophets that consecutively followed his lineage : -

Are you going to refute this? Because that would hypocritcal
good work piario!
Reply

Emperor
02-15-2007, 03:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Neither does the spiltting of the moon by Mohammed, but I don't mock it! :smile:


Your beginning post seemed to be mocking the hajj.
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