US Copter Down in Afghanistan

[mahdisoldier19]

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- Military investigators from two countries are looking into two separate crashes that killed eight NATO soldiers and injured 27 yesterday in southern and eastern Afghanistan.

The worse accident involved a coalition CH-47 Chinook helicopter that crashed in the Shahjoy district of Zabul province, roughly 270 km northeast of Kandahar.

The chopper, carrying 22 U.S. service members, suffered a sudden, unexplained loss of power and crashed near the main highway to Kabul.

"The loss of these service members is felt by all of us here in Afghanistan, and we offer our deepest sympathy to the families of those who were killed," said Lt.-Col. David Accetta, a coalition spokesman.

The U.S. military emphasized that the cause of the crash was believed to be mechanical and not due to hostile action, although the aircraft was carrying troops meant to counter an expected militant operation.
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"It was not enemy-fire-related," said Col. Tom Collins, a spokesman for NATO in Kabul. "The pilot was able to radio in that he was having engine problems. We're confident it was not due to enemy action."

The eight dead and 14 injured in the chopper early yesterday followed the crash of three Canadian armoured vehicles on the pre-dawn streets of Kandahar.

Thirteen Canadian soldiers suffered minor injuries early yesterday when their LAV III fighting vehicles smashed into one another. The accident happened when a convoy of recently arrived combat troops was moving between bases, said Maj. Dale MacEachern, a spokesman for the Canadian Forces.

All of the injured were treated at the nearby medical clinic at the Canadian-run provincial reconstruction base, but six of them were transferred by air to the NATO hospital at Kandahar Airfield.

Details on the collision were not released and military police were investigating.

Source http://ottsun.canoe.ca/News/National...44388-sun.html

As Usual the Kuffar always lie about their ways, this is the Mujahideen Side of the Story...

A Helicopter of invaders troops shoot downed in Helmand

Qari M Yousuf

Yesterday Mujahideen of Emarat Islamic with antiaircraft weapon fired and shot down a Helicopter of invaders which was going for the military apparitions between Grishk and Sangen districts of Helmand province .

After a incident it was going to there base and there were no correct details about the location of this incident and travelers of the Helicopter .

Possible it was that Helicopter which invaders claimed suffered Malfunctions,

Source http://www.alemarah.org/english--3-18-2-2007.html

So Oh You Muslims and Mumeenin Which of the stories do you believe? Those of the Kuffar or those of your brothers?

[Woodrow]

Is it wise for the Mujahideen to announce they have antiaircraft artillery in the region? Would not the wiser move be to keep that quiet if the US forces thought it had been because of malfunction?

A poor move in combat is to let the enemy know what weapons you have and where they are located.

[`Abd al-Azeez]

Hmmmm good point bro, never thought of it like that ....

[Cognescenti]

Mahdi;

Was this one of those anti-aircraft weapons that just happened to be firing into the air at a wedding ceremony?

Also, an observation. Is it really appropriate for you to be gloating over the death of American/Canadian/British soldiers on an Islamic Forum which has the stated purpose of improving understanding?

People might get the wrong idea. They might assume you are a juvenile, hate-filled cheerleader for the Taliban, too young or too old or to cowardly to do the fighting yourself.

Do you see any Westerners crowing here when a bunch of your taliban bros buy the farm?

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[Ninth_Scribe]

The U.S. military emphasized that the cause of the crash was believed to be mechanical and not due to hostile action, although the aircraft was carrying troops meant to counter an expected militant operation.

Don't feel bad... they ALWAYS say that!

But, you know what? I'm sick to death of those air raids! They kill more civillians in air raids than the Sunnis and Shia combined, and justify all those deaths because of one rumor they over-heard concerning a single "high value target" that "might" have been there!

They don't want things like peace. If they did, they would have taken OBL's offer for a truce... and just think of how many people would be alive today if Bush had done that!? But he's a proud peacock. So proud in fact he has to attack farmers with fighter jets! Pft.

Ninth Scribe

[Keltoi]

Don't feel bad... they ALWAYS say that!

But, you know what? I'm sick to death of those air raids! They kill more civillians in air raids than the Sunnis and Shia combined, and justify all those deaths because of one rumor they over-heard concerning a single "high value target" that "might" have been there!

Ninth Scribe

Don't feel bad? Interesting choice of words..and quite telling actually.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Is it wise for the Mujahideen to announce they have antiaircraft artillery in the region?

You can take a helicopter down with a sling-shot if you know what to look for.

Ninth Scribe

[Keltoi]

Attack helicopters usually do fly pretty low, but I was surprised the transport chopper was that vulnerable.

[tomtomsmom]

Here is an idea....... instead of either side saying "YAY they are dead!!!!" why not try saying we all need to come together to find a way to make the killing stop????


Just a thought.

[Keltoi]

Here is an idea....... instead of either side saying "YAY they are dead!!!!" why not try saying we all need to come together to find a way to make the killing stop????


Just a thought.

Sounds great. How do we do that?

[Ninth_Scribe]

Don't feel bad? Interesting choice of words..and quite telling actually.

It's pretty sad that you get so hung up on one part of a statement, but not the other. Yes, it does frustrate people when they discover others have been lying about them. Then of course, there are all the lies that were told. You seem to conveniently blip off radar at that point. Why?

Hmm. A person who proudly displays the badge of the 101st without being military thinks he pegged me? Laughs! Go ahead, take a shot. East Coast Aerotech? Hanscom AFB? M.I.T.? Ain't Misbehavin? Boy, you're clueless! Don't know why you want to hang on my every word for what is or isn't "telling" but have a blast.

Ninth Scribe

[Cognescenti]

Sounds great. How do we do that?

Easy. Renounce Israel. Withdraw all US troops on foreign soil...in fact, even better...dissolve the armed forces. Stop being so gosh darned successful and making other people feel bad about their own ineptitude. Free parking for foreign diplomats at the UN.....hmm...that about does it.

Oh wait, silly me...I forgot. All Americans must convert to Islam.

[Cognescenti]

Don't feel bad... they ALWAYS say that!

But, you know what? I'm sick to death of those air raids! They kill more civillians in air raids than the Sunnis and Shia combined, and justify all those deaths because of one rumor they over-heard concerning a single "high value target" that "might" have been there!

They don't want things like peace. If they did, they would have taken OBL's offer for a truce... and just think of how many people would be alive today if Bush had done that!? But he's a proud peacock. So proud in fact he has to attack farmers with fighter jets! Pft.

Ninth Scribe

A minor point...it was a transport helicopter. It was no air raid.

Re. OBL and a "truce"...oh please...that is rich.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Attack helicopters usually do fly pretty low, but I was surprised the transport chopper was that vulnerable.

Now that's what I call a 'telling' statement ;)

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

A minor point...it was a transport helicopter. It was no air raid.

Re. OBL and a "truce"...oh please...that is rich.

Oh, give over... it was an enemy craft that was transporting soldiers. As for OBL - he may have said a ton of things we hated hearing... but I've yet to catch him in a lie. Bush on the other hand - well, nuff said!

Ninth Scribe

[NobleMuslimUK]

The US are fully aware of what artillery the Taliban possess becuase they are usually in the firing line, where in turn the US ends up bombing villages full of civilians. A failed attempt by the tyrannical greedy war freaks in the whitehouse to occupy and control a country.
Victory is winning people's hearts and minds and their trust, not killing them in record numbers.

[tomtomsmom]

Sounds great. How do we do that?

Well we could start by not teaching the children of the world hate. You know the kids today are the people blowing crap up tomorrow!!!

[mahdisoldier19]

Well we could start by not teaching the children of the world hate. You know the kids today are the people blowing crap up tomorrow!!!

Kind of hard to do that when one , the United States supports Israel which is the biggest oppressor in the Middle East of Muslims.

2) Invasion of Iraq which led to mass killings,rape, murder which will spawn a new generation of Angry Iraqi Children who see their parents killed or own family members butchered

3) Same goes for in Afghanistan

4) The United States who funded Saddam the same man Donald Rumsfeld shook hands with, giving in Depleted Uranium which led to the sickness of millions of Muslim children.

5) You Turn on the News, all you hear is that this man was an extremist, terrorist when concerning a Muslim or such and such to the point that it comes only associated with a Muslim these days perhaps ( Great propaganda by the Media).

[SilentObserver]

Kind of hard to do that when one , the United States supports Israel which is the biggest oppressor in the Middle East of Muslims.

2) Invasion of Iraq which led to mass killings,rape, murder which will spawn a new generation of Angry Iraqi Children who see their parents killed or own family members butchered

3) Same goes for in Afghanistan

4) The United States who funded Saddam the same man Donald Rumsfeld shook hands with, giving in Depleted Uranium which led to the sickness of millions of Muslim children.

5) You Turn on the News, all you hear is that this man was an extremist, terrorist when concerning a Muslim or such and such to the point that it comes only associated with a Muslim these days perhaps ( Great propaganda by the Media).

If you hate the US so much, why do you live there? Quite hypocrytical isn't it? "I hate this country, but I sure love the benefits that come with living here."

[SilentObserver]

Mahdi;

Was this one of those anti-aircraft weapons that just happened to be firing into the air at a wedding ceremony?

Also, an observation. Is it really appropriate for you to be gloating over the death of American/Canadian/British soldiers on an Islamic Forum which has the stated purpose of improving understanding?

People might get the wrong idea. They might assume you are a juvenile, hate-filled cheerleader for the Taliban, too young or too old or to cowardly to do the fighting yourself.

Do you see any Westerners crowing here when a bunch of your taliban bros buy the farm?

That seems to be the main difference. There always seems to be this element that is happy about the death of others. Quite pathetic really. Cheering from the sidelines while others die.

[mahdisoldier19]

If you hate the US so much, why do you live there? Quite hypocrytical isn't it? "I hate this country, but I sure love the benefits that come with living here."

And where did i say I Hate the US? Who is putting words in my mouth?

[Skillganon]

Taking into consideration the weapons the possess, it must be a Great Shot.

[Idris]

Mahdi;

Was this one of those anti-aircraft weapons that just happened to be firing into the air at a wedding ceremony?

Also, an observation. Is it really appropriate for you to be gloating over the death of American/Canadian/British soldiers on an Islamic Forum which has the stated purpose of improving understanding?

People might get the wrong idea. They might assume you are a juvenile, hate-filled cheerleader for the Taliban, too young or too old or to cowardly to do the fighting yourself.

Do you see any Westerners crowing here when a bunch of your taliban bros buy the farm?

Well if you come to another man country and bomb the crap out of him then I think it should be only right that Muslims should be happy then American/Canadian/British soldier’s die try to kill. Put it this what if someone is robbing your house and dies trying how you doing to feel? This is a war and the US started.

[Isaac]

Every human regardless of wether he be here in the west or across the ocean in the east has every right to defend himself, his family, his property and his land. Is this not the case which America used to illegally invade Iraq? So why do people get all heartbroken when the opressed repell against the agressor? Why do people get all heartbroken when the illegal military invasion in Iraq and elsewhere is being destroyed and its murderous troops are being slain?

I agree war is not a pretty sight and must be avoided at all costs, but to complain and blame those who fight back is just pathtic. I say those that are being illegally occupied, tortured, killed, raped and bombed by helicopter gunships have every right to defend themselves. And i fully support them, whether they are fighting British troops or Russian troops. Wether they are fighting Isralie troops or American troops.

Let me ask one question, what would you do if your country was invaded ILLEGALY, your people killed, raped, tortured? What would you do if your country was being split by sectarian violance and political intentions from outside? I know what I would do! And that is to die for the cause. And that cause is to fight opression and agression!

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Well i am not sure if revealing that they have anti aircraft weapons is wise or not.

I mena how many helicopters is it now? 4 or 5?

And all due to maintainence issue?

I mena no matter what an objective investgator would try to cover all possible areas.

The US action in not revelaing the truth may be becasue
1) Troops morale
2) Troops safety
3) Public opinion
4) They are still investigating..

For the Iraqis to reveal their weaponry
1)Bolster morale in the current US escalation in Baghdad
2)A warning/propaganda drive
3)a diversionary so that the US will stop its operation.

Dont forget that the US rely on air power to protect/recover/attack .
So if these are nullified,the US wont do anything..

But it may be that it is a setup to blame Iran made weapons for destroying the copters and its losses.

[Keltoi]

Of course, to believe this is all about the "oppressed" and people just "fighting back" is simply naive and rather childish when compared to the reality of the situation. You have many groups of death squads, both Shia and Sunni, whose primary goal is now the death of each other. The U.S. is just the traffic cop at this point...albeit a traffic cop who took it upon himself to assume that role. More's the pity.

As for the death of soldiers or insurgents. Some people see war as a game they watch from the sidelines. Body counts are compared, and people choose sides and cheer when their side makes a goal, i.e. body counts. I notice there is silence, or blame, when Iraqis butcher each other by the hundreds every day. Yet there is some sort of deranged pride when a U.S. chopper goes down. I suppose it is a matter of maturity and knowledge of how horrible war is for both sides, but I cringe every time I read about war. Whether it is death on the enemy side or my side.

[Cognescenti]

Well if you come to another man country and bomb the crap out of him then I think it should be only right that Muslims should be happy then American/Canadian/British soldier’s die try to kill. Put it this what if someone is robbing your house and dies trying how you doing to feel? This is a war and the US started.

Completely vapid analogy, Idris.

What fraction of the US population do you think cared about Afghanistan before 9-11? A few thousand Afghani expatriots and some CIA types. Thats it.

When the Taliban blew up the Budhist statues, they got some press, uniformly negative, btw, but still, anyone proposing to send US troops would have been laughed off the scene. When they publicly sawed off people's hands in Kabul under sharia we rolled our eyes and went back to work. Banning music....yawn.

But when 2800 Americans were murdered and untold billions of dollars of damage were caused on 9-11....well now, that was different. The Taliban offered refuge to OBL. They shared a philosophical kindred. They were given the option of turning him over to the US. They told us to take a hike. We declined and mainly arrived by jet aircraft.

Don't give me that self-defence ****. You have it backward.

[Cognescenti]

Every human regardless of wether he be here in the west or across the ocean in the east has every right to defend himself, his family, his property and his land. Is this not the case which America used to illegally invade Iraq? So why do people get all heartbroken when the opressed repell against the agressor? Why do people get all heartbroken when the illegal military invasion in Iraq and elsewhere is being destroyed and its murderous troops are being slain?

I agree war is not a pretty sight and must be avoided at all costs, but to complain and blame those who fight back is just pathtic. I say those that are being illegally occupied, tortured, killed, raped and bombed by helicopter gunships have every right to defend themselves. And i fully support them, whether they are fighting British troops or Russian troops. Wether they are fighting Isralie troops or American troops.

Let me ask one question, what would you do if your country was invaded ILLEGALY, your people killed, raped, tortured? What would you do if your country was being split by sectarian violance and political intentions from outside? I know what I would do! And that is to die for the cause. And that cause is to fight opression and agression!

Isaac;

You do know we are talking about Afghanistan here?

Isaac, why not stop bloviating on the web and go "die for the cause" somewhere? Get to it, man. Time's a wasting. Go find a flag with some funny Arabic lettering, find a rock somewhere, climb atop it and wave the thing with your stubby little arms until your undersized heart can do more more.

Your are a mindless partisan. You are part of the problem. To say that you are lemming-like is to demean a whole species.

Do send us updates from the front, will you? Make sure you use lots of exclamation marks and stirring revolutionary phrases too.

[Idris]

You must be a big fool if you think this war started from 9-11.

Of course, to believe this is all about the "oppressed" and people just "fighting back" is simply naive and rather childish when compared to the reality of the situation. You have many groups of death squads, both Shia and Sunni, whose primary goal is now the death of each other. The U.S. is just the traffic cop at this point...albeit a traffic cop who took it upon himself to assume that role. More's the pity.

They sit in Armour cars watching or “green zone”. Did this happen b4 the war?
No...

When the Taliban blew up the Budhist statues, they got some press, uniformly negative, btw, but still, anyone proposing to send US troops would have been laughed off the scene. When they publicly sawed off people's hands in Kabul under sharia we rolled our eyes and went back to work. Banning music....yawn.

.... lol I really don't need to call names like you did to Isaac .... but there are many name for someone like you.

[Isaac]

Cognaseti, you seem somehwhat dilluded from what goes on outside your pretty little live in a democratic world. Remember afghanistan and iraq are not the usa.. Try to read my post and try not to get too personal. Its people like you that wish for wars, promote wars, vote for wars and just love seeing the bully take charge.

Let me ask you a question, do you think its is right for one to defend themselves against occuping forces. Do you think afghans have a right to defend themsleves?

You now what dont bother, becuase people like you just love seeing people die, as long as their not your own. And what was the point with the funny arabic letters. What has that got to do with anything? It seems that you imply that anything arabic is pro-war? Your true colours come out, as i have been reading your posts. The more and more i read your posts, the more and more i realise you have nothing constructive to add, but just looking for a confrontation.

Power to the people. Power to the opressed! Time and Time Again! Down with the agressors, down with the state terrorsit!

[sudais1]

Sounds great. How do we do that?

funny they way you phrased that.lol

[Cognescenti]

You must be a big fool if you think this war started from 9-11. .

Do tell us big fools, then. What do you think prompted the US to send thousands of troops to a backwater place like Afghanistan? Can't be oil. The rugs maybe? A new vacation resort, perhaps? Please correct our misunderstanding.

.... lol I really don't need to call names like you did to Isaac .... but there are many name for someone like you.

Don't be timid, sister. I can take it. You will need to back it up, though.

[wilberhum]

..........This is a war and the US started.

Is this another, "The CIA did 9-11"? Or the Jews did it? :mad: :mad:

[Cognescenti]

Cognaseti, you seem somehwhat dilluded from what goes on outside your pretty little live in a democratic world. Remember afghanistan and iraq are not the usa.. Try to read my post and try not to get too personal. Its people like you that wish for wars, promote wars, vote for wars and just love seeing the bully take charge.

Let me ask you a question, do you think its is right for one to defend themselves against occuping forces. Do you think afghans have a right to defend themsleves?

You now what dont bother, becuase people like you just love seeing people die, as long as their not your own. And what was the point with the funny arabic letters. What has that got to do with anything? It seems that you imply that anything arabic is pro-war? Your true colours come out, as i have been reading your posts. The more and more i read your posts, the more and more i realise you have nothing constructive to add, but just looking for a confrontation.

Power to the people. Power to the opressed! Time and Time Again! Down with the agressors, down with the state terrorsit!

Isaac;

Try not being so one-dimensional. Not everyone in Afghanistan supports to Taliban...and let's dispense with the artifice that the Taliban are peasant farmers who took up arms to defend their soil. Every single NATO troop in Afghanistan wants to go home. There is nothing there of the slightest interest to us...save to insure it doesn't become another haven for terror.


There is this:

You now what dont bother, becuase people like you just love seeing people die, as long as their not your own.

Hmmm? Aren't you the one strutting about, crowing about the death of NATO soldiers. There is a psychoanalytical term for what you just did....it called "projection". Look it up.

Good work on the slogans. Nice exclamation marks too. Post some picks when you get to the training camp.

[mahdisoldier19]

Completely vapid analogy, Idris.

What fraction of the US population do you think cared about Afghanistan before 9-11? A few thousand Afghani expatriots and some CIA types. Thats it.

When the Taliban blew up the Budhist statues, they got some press, uniformly negative, btw, but still, anyone proposing to send US troops would have been laughed off the scene. When they publicly sawed off people's hands in Kabul under sharia we rolled our eyes and went back to work. Banning music....yawn.

But when 2800 Americans were murdered and untold billions of dollars of damage were caused on 9-11....well now, that was different. The Taliban offered refuge to OBL. They shared a philosophical kindred. They were given the option of turning him over to the US. They told us to take a hike. We declined and mainly arrived by jet aircraft.

Don't give me that self-defence ****. You have it backward.

Actually to prove your Incorrect,

Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over


9.30pm update: * Taliban demand evidence of Bin Laden's guilt
* Second week of airstrikes starts
* Taliban urges US to halt bombing

Staff and agencies
Sunday October 14, 2001
Guardian Unlimited

President George Bush rejected as "non-negotiable" an offer by the Taliban to discuss turning over Osama bin Laden if the United States ended the bombing in Afghanistan.

Returning to the White House after a weekend at Camp David, the president said the bombing would not stop, unless the ruling Taliban "turn [bin Laden] over, turn his cohorts over, turn any hostages they hold over." He added, "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty". In Jalalabad, deputy prime minister Haji Abdul Kabir - the third most powerful figure in the ruling Taliban regime - told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US, but added: "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country".

Article continues
The offer came a day after the Taliban's supreme leader rebuffed Bush's "second chance" for the Islamic militia to surrender Bin Laden to the US.

Mullah Mohammed Omar said there was no move to "hand anyone over".

Taliban 'ready to discuss' Bin Laden handover if bombing halts
The Taliban would be ready to discuss handing over Osama bin Laden to a neutral country if the US halted the bombing of Afghanistan, a senior Taliban official said today.

Afghanistan's deputy prime minister, Haji Abdul Kabir, told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US.

"If the Taliban is given evidence that Osama bin Laden is involved" and the bombing campaign stopped, "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country", Mr Kabir added.

But it would have to be a state that would never "come under pressure from the United States", he said.

Mr Kabir urged America to halt its air campaign, now in its eighth day, and open negotiations. "If America were to step back from the current policy, then we could negotiate," he said. "Then we could discuss which third country."

Large explosions caused by American bombs and missiles have been reported to the south and east of the Afghan capital, Kabul, this evening.

The sky above the city has been filled with tracer fire from Taliban anti-aircraft guns once again.

Before the start of the air campaign, the Taliban had demanded evidence of Bin Laden's involvement in the attack and had offered to try him before an Islamic court inside Afghanistan - proposals that the US promptly rejected.

Al-Qaida warning an 'admission of guilt'
Threats of new terrorist strikes against Britain and the US from Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida group amount to an admission of guilt for the September 11 attacks, the deputy prime minister, John Prescott, said today.

Mr Prescott, speaking while on a diplomatic mission in Moscow, argued that the latest statement from al-Qaida strongly suggested Bin Laden's culpability for last month's attacks on New York and Washington.

"What I have heard about the message given ... is basically confirming, I think, the guilt of Bin Laden, who has made it clear that he wants to continue these actions," he told BBC1's Breakfast with Frost programme this morning.

The new threats from al-Qaida came from spokesman Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, in a video-taped statement broadcast on Qatar's Al-Jazeera Arabic TV news network.

He said Muslims in the US and Britain "should avoid travelling by air or living in high buildings or towers".

Americans and Britons were also warned to leave the Arabian Peninsula "because the land will burn with fire under their feet".

Washington dismissed the comments as "propaganda", while a Downing Street spokeswoman echoed Mr Prescott's comment that the threats amounted to an admission of guilt.
(Full story)

Anti-US protests engulf Pakistani town
Thousands of anti-US protesters today converged on a southern Pakistani town, fighting pitched battles with police and paramilitary troops.

One person was killed and 24 were injured in the battles around Jacobabad, police said.

The desert city is the home of one of two air bases made available to US forces to support the air campaign against Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida network.

As rage grew over US-led air strikes on Afghanistan, one militant leader exhorted followers to set Shabaz airbase in Jacobabad on fire "at any cost", and another called on Pakistan's generals to overthrow the country's military ruler, General Pervez Musharraf.
(Full story)

Cathedral cleared in 'powder' scare
Firefighters wearing protective suits were this afternoon attempting to clear up white powder dropped in Canterbury Cathedral by a man reported to be of Arab appearance.

The cathedral was evacuated at around 2.30pm today after the man was seen dropping the powder in one of its chapels.

The fire brigade was called in to clear up the powder and take samples for analysis, amid heightened concerns about biological warfare attacks in Britain.

It is understood the powder is not thought to be a biological agent, such as anthrax, but the cathedral remains closed tonight as tests are carried out.
(Full story)

UN commissioner warns of Afghan starvation threat
United Nations human rights commissioner Mary Robinson has called for a pause in the US-led bombing of Afghanistan to allow food aid into the country and prevent a "Rwanda-style" humanitarian disaster.

The former Irish president said that otherwise America and its allies could preside over the deaths from starvation of millions of people in Afghanistan.

Mrs Robinson, speaking to BBC1's Breakfast with Frost programme from Geneva, said helping Afghanistan's civilian population through the winter had to be a top priority.
(Full story)

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterro...573975,00.html

They offered refuge on the act that Osama bin laden would not commit Any Acts from Afghan Soil, Also there is no evidence provided that OBL was responsible for 9/11, thats why the Taliban never handed him Over.

Get your facts straight, even including International Law of the UN Charter, the US had no right in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[mahdisoldier19]

Isaac;

Try not being so one-dimensional. Not everyone in Afghanistan supports to Taliban...and let's dispense with the artifice that the Taliban are peasant farmers who took up arms to defend their soil. Every single NATO troop in Afghanistan wants to go home. There is nothing there of the slightest interest to us...save to insure it doesn't become another haven for terror.


There is this:

You now what dont bother, becuase people like you just love seeing people die, as long as their not your own.

Hmmm? Aren't you the one strutting about, crowing about the death of NATO soldiers. There is a psychoanalytical term for what you just did....it called "projection". Look it up.

Good work on the slogans. Nice exclamation marks too. Post some picks when you get to the training camp.

So What about the Millions of Children that were killed due to Depleted Uranium given by the United States? So who gets the blame?

Come on who? The United States? And what did they United States Government, not the people, the ignorant government do? They returned back to Iraq in now over 655,000 killed again.

So you explain to me whats going on.

[wilberhum]

mahdisoldier19

Obviously you think the US has no right to attack those that declear war against them and commit numerious acts of war.

[Skillganon]

mahdisoldier19

Obviously you think the US has no right to attack those that declear war against them and commit numerious acts of war.

I thought it was US bombing other countries & interfering heavily, that is why they got attack by some people.
US does not need anyone to declare war on them to attack anyone. They have shown that quite brutally in Iraq, afghan and other countries.

Going back to the topic. They must been a funny funerals, what a way to die. Well the battle is not over.

[Cognescenti]

Actually to prove your Incorrect,

Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over


9.30pm update: * Taliban demand evidence of Bin Laden's guilt
* Second week of airstrikes starts
* Taliban urges US to halt bombing

Staff and agencies
Sunday October 14, 2001
Guardian Unlimited

President George Bush rejected as "non-negotiable" an offer by the Taliban to discuss turning over Osama bin Laden if the United States ended the bombing in Afghanistan.

Returning to the White House after a weekend at Camp David, the president said the bombing would not stop, unless the ruling Taliban "turn [bin Laden] over, turn his cohorts over, turn any hostages they hold over." He added, "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty". In Jalalabad, deputy prime minister Haji Abdul Kabir - the third most powerful figure in the ruling Taliban regime - told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US, but added: "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country".....

Yeah...that's it Mahdisoldier :rolleyes: The war starts after plenty of warning.....then Omar et. al. decide the US wasn't bluffing, but, in order to save face, and stall for time, they offer to hand him over to a third party after they see the evidence :D

[Cognescenti]

So What about the Millions of Children that were killed due to Depleted Uranium given by the United States? So who gets the blame?

Do you mean who gets the blame for making up such a preposterous claim?

"Millions of Children"? "Depleted Uranium"....huh? What the heck are you going on about?

[wilberhum]

I thought it was US bombing other countries & interfering heavily, that is why they got attack by some people.

You obviously haven't understood OBL's message.

[mahdisoldier19]

And when evidence faces you, yet you still reject

[imaad_udeen]

So Oh You Muslims and Mumeenin Which of the stories do you believe? Those of the Kuffar or those of your brothers?

You live in New York?

:muddlehea

[Skillganon]

You obviously haven't understood OBL's message.

OBL?
You mean the "obvious bush crap language"?

[Isaac]

I dont get it. Whats the big deal if he lives in New York, lives in the west or lives in the east. Is he not human? Does he not have a right to voice his concern. Living in the west does not mean you have to agree with evreything. Is this not the democracy that the west teaches? I live in the west, i oppose the war, i oppose the government, i oppose certain laws, but that does not mean i have to move out or break them, i just show my opposition and do what i can to cange it.

If i oppose the war and the illegal invasion, what do i do? i work with others who also oppose it and set up a coalition to sway the opinion of the wider audiance. There are people who i speak to on a regular basis that agree with the war, there are people that use to agree and than there are people who disagree. We all live here in the west and not once have they said or judged my position of living here in the west.

I live in the west and hate the government which is charge, but does that mean i hate the people or the country? does that mean i hate people of other religions? does that mean i hate people of a darker colour? No No No. so dont just jump on the bandwagon and make stupid comments like why dont you go elsehwhere, when someone disagrees or shows his or her disgust and the illegal works of the government and the corrupt people in charge of it.

[Isaac]

And consegneti, find me an exact quote or the exact words you have claimed i said that i wish for the death of NATO soldiers. If you can find the exact word for word you have just claimed i have siad, i will apologise and i will quit this forum.

good luck:D

[Cognescenti]

I dont get it. Whats the big deal if he lives in New York, lives in the west or lives in the east. Is he not human? Does he not have a right to voice his concern. Living in the west does not mean you have to agree with evreything. Is this not the democracy that the west teaches? I live in the west, i oppose the war, i oppose the government, i oppose certain laws, but that does not mean i have to move out or break them, i just show my opposition and do what i can to cange it.

If i oppose the war and the illegal invasion, what do i do? i work with others who also oppose it and set up a coalition to sway the opinion of the wider audiance. There are people who i speak to on a regular basis that agree with the war, there are people that use to agree and than there are people who disagree. We all live here in the west and not once have they said or judged my position of living here in the west.

I live in the west and hate the government which is charge, but does that mean i hate the people or the country? does that mean i hate people of other religions? does that mean i hate people of a darker colour? No No No. so dont just jump on the bandwagon and make stupid comments like why dont you go elsehwhere, when someone disagrees or shows his or her disgust and the illegal works of the government and the corrupt people in charge of it.

Isaac;

Your mission to win hearts and minds sounds like fun but I am here to say I judge your position of living in the West. When you say "hate" you are into the realm of emotion which is not conducive to rational debate or discussion. Are we to believe that after a pleasant dinner party you stand around in a tweed jacket having polite, poltiical discussions, sipping orange juice while your war-loving friends enjoy their brandys? Then when you say something like " people like you just love seeing people die, as long as their not your own" they strike a pensive pose, stroking their gotee and, after some delay respond, "yes, Isaac, I can see your point."

A Labour government is in power. Do you imagine a Conservative government would go easier on suspected terrorists? Just, who exactly do you want to be in power?

Of course their is room for dissent in a Democracy. I'm just not sure where the hatred part fits in. Timothy McVeigh hated his government..so did the London bombers. Is that what you mean?

Try this experiment. Get yourself invited to a big Bar-B-Q in East Texas, lets say, then after enjoying the all-beef Bar-B-Q, when you are standing about enjoying the cool evening air smoking cigars with the host, say "Its people like you that wish for wars, promote wars, vote for wars and just love seeing the bully take charge". Then, in the dead time before the assault, say, "I'm happy that chopper got shot down. Those Texas Nat. Guard boys got what they deserve in an illegal war"

[Keltoi]

I wouldn't recommend doing that in East Texas...or anywhere for that matter.

[Cognescenti]

And consegneti, find me an exact quote or the exact words you have claimed i said that i wish for the death of NATO soldiers. If you can find the exact word for word you have just claimed i have siad, i will apologise and i will quit this forum.

good luck:D

Isaac;

We are all, presumably, adults. Your comments were not as ham-handed as Mahdisoldier, but he seems a lost cause :D You, on the other hand, are able to string together cogent sentences so I am inclined to hold you to a higher standard.

Here is what you said:

Why do people get all heartbroken when the illegal military invasion in Iraq and elsewhere is being destroyed and its murderous troops are being slain?

Now..in the context of a cheerleading, hooray for our side, thread about the death of NATO soldiers in Afghanistan (remember this is the "good war") ...can you see how the use of words like "murderous" might be a bit offensive, and, though not quite treasonous, might give your real world neighbors pause? You admitted your "hatred".

To me, you sound only a fiery sermon or two away from Mahdisoldier's position. Let's hope one of your friends in the tweed jacket changes your mind.

[Woodrow]

I wouldn't recommend doing that in East Texas...or anywhere for that matter.

Definetly not in the Marshall, Tyler, Longview area of East Texas. Them oil field roughnecks play pretty rough.

[Isaac]

Ok, Ok, Ok you proved your point. Im a mindless person, who does not care about people, likes wars, writes in funny arabic, wishes death upon people. I hate opressors and wish they were elminated, is that hateful enough for you?

Mind you id much rather have NATO than any british or american army in Afghanistan. At leat NATO doesnt have the track record of killing innocent people, torture, rape and illegal improsment of people.

[Isaac]

And how may you be to judge me living in the west. What makes you any more applicable to be a westerner than me? Oh, is it your support for opressive governments or illegal inavsions? Take your pick!! And please dont get personal, because you sound really immature. You know what i wont bother even repsonding to your posts, because you seem to doge any real discussion and get all personal, a biut like an opressive ruler.

[mahdisoldier19]

mahdisoldier19

Obviously you think the US has no right to attack those that declear war against them and commit numerious acts of war.

And when evidence is said to bring forth, the US government Denied providing evidence!

[wilberhum]

And when evidence is said to bring forth, the US government Denied providing evidence!

I haven't a clue what you are trying to communicate.

[Skillganon]

Yesterday Mujahideen of Emarat Islamic with antiaircraft weapon fired and shot down a Helicopter of invaders which was going for the military apparitions between Grishk and Sangen districts of Helmand province .

That was a great shot.

Don't worry Ladies and Gentleman there is more to come like this incident. :smile:

[Keltoi]

That was a great shot.

Don't worry Ladies and Gentleman there is more to come like this incident. :smile:

What a juvenile sentiment.

[Skillganon]

What a juvenile sentiment.

Actually that is a mature and intelligent statement. :p

[Keltoi]

Actually that is a mature and intelligent statement. :p

Getting some kind of humor or happiness out of death is a juvenile sentiment, or a sign of deeper mental problems.

[Skillganon]

Getting some kind of humor or happiness out of death is a juvenile sentiment, or a sign of deeper mental problems.

I am happy with the small victory. Why should I not be happy.

If they died they died in the state mentioned.

[Keltoi]

I am happy with the small victory. Why should I not be happy.

If they died they died in the state mentioned.

Whose victory? Are you fighting anyone? This isn't a football game. Is it because you assume the person or persons who shot down this transport chopper was a Muslim? Are you that simple minded?

[Muezzin]

Whoah there, dudes.

[Keltoi]

Whoah there, dudes.

I apologize. People who talk about war like a football game disturb me.

[Cognescenti]

Getting some kind of humor or happiness out of death is a juvenile sentiment, or a sign of deeper mental problems.

Agreed.

Skilgannon;

...you might enjoy this chap's writings.

[Skillganon]

Whose victory? Are you fighting anyone? This isn't a football game. Is it because you assume the person or persons who shot down this transport chopper was a Muslim?

The U.S copter that came down crashing is a small victory, even if a ghust of wind brought it down it makes no difference.

Are you that simple minded?

Throwing words like that makes no difference.

Whoah there, dudes.

Come on you was celebrating over a pint of carrot juice.

[Keltoi]

The U.S copter that came down crashing is a small victory, even if a ghust of wind brought it down it makes no difference.

Throwing words like that makes no difference.



Come on you was celebrating over a pint of carrot juice.

You still didn't answer my question. Who is this a victory for?

[Skillganon]

You still didn't answer my question. Who is this a victory for?

The believers.
Do I get an A?

Well whoever shot that copter down I will give him an A for good marksmanship.

[Keltoi]

The believers.
Do I get an A?

Well whoever shot that copter down I will give him an A for good marksmanship.

A victory for the "believers"? Belief in what? Death? No, I understand. Even though you have no idea who shot down the chopper, what they believed in, what their motivations were, etc, you still cheer their little "victory" because they probably attended a mosque at some point. Great. Clap for your victory. Then your heroes will probably be out tomorrow killing Shiites...another victory?

[Skillganon]

The question has been answered although not to your liking.

Anyway, I think it was a great shot.

[Ninth_Scribe]

If you hate the US so much, why do you live there? Quite hypocrytical isn't it? "I hate this country, but I sure love the benefits that come with living here."

Maybe America has changed? My mother is an American and she doesn't want to be here. She's doing a reverse-immigration back to Sicily. I'm an American, and I don't want to be here. The only thing keeping me here is the state department. They don't want to release my passport so I'm grounded for the time being until I can figure out why. Just what makes you think everyone who lives here is doing so because they want to?

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

A victory for the "believers"? Belief in what? Death? No, I understand. Even though you have no idea who shot down the chopper, what they believed in, what their motivations were, etc, you still cheer their little "victory" because they probably attended a mosque at some point. Great. Clap for your victory. Then your heroes will probably be out tomorrow killing Shiites...another victory?

Seems to me there were quite a few celebrations in the U.S. as well. Go ahead and cheer yourself on in your belief that you're preventing a civil war or that you're in some way helping the Shia... who will only turn around and open fire on Israel, later.

Ninth Scribe

[mahdisoldier19]

Whose victory? Are you fighting anyone? This isn't a football game. Is it because you assume the person or persons who shot down this transport chopper was a Muslim? Are you that simple minded?

Are you that much Simple Minded to believe a man was responsible for the attack and the only evidence that they have is a videotape which supposedly justified An invasion which led to other excuses which led to another invasion by the United States Government? Does that ever cross your mind?

So then how do you view war?

[Keltoi]

Are you that much Simple Minded to believe a man was responsible for the attack and the only evidence that they have is a videotape which supposedly justified An invasion which led to other excuses which led to another invasion by the United States Government? Does that ever cross your mind?

So then how do you view war?

I'm not even sure what you're saying. If I had to bet I would say you're referring to Osama Bin Laden and the War in Afghanistan? Not really sure what that has to do with the point about celebrating death.

[Keltoi]

Seems to me there were quite a few celebrations in the U.S. as well. Go ahead and cheer yourself on in your belief that you're preventing a civil war or that you're in some way helping the Shia... who will only turn around and open fire on Israel, later.

Ninth Scribe

Celebrations of what?

I don't care about the Shia one way or the other, or the Sunni for that matter. I do hope a civil war can be avoided, for many reasons.

[Agnostic]

I'm not even sure what you're saying. If I had to bet I would say you're referring to Osama Bin Laden and the War in Afghanistan? Not really sure what that has to do with the point about celebrating death.

I was kinda wondering that too

[Idris]

I'm not even sure what you're saying. If I had to bet I would say you're referring to Osama Bin Laden and the War in Afghanistan? Not really sure what that has to do with the point about celebrating death.

I was kinda wondering that too

If I have to give anyone an A, it would be Keltoi for being most sarcastic then a B Agnostic since he just copied.

All this left wing chat is making me sick. If your house was bombed, your family killed all for one man then I think you have the right to feel happy then an enemy is killed. Do not tell me what I have feel and what I can’t. If this was the other way round I am sure you would be jumping up and down in happiness then you hear this new. Nevertheless, your brains are as hard as rocks and cannot think any other way.

[wilberhum]

If your house was bombed, your family killed all for one man then I think you have the right to feel happy then an enemy is killed.

No! People getting killed doesn't make me happy. And people differ on who the enemy is. I can't ponder how sickened with hate someone would have to be to rejoice over anyone's death.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Celebrations of what?

I don't care about the Shia one way or the other, or the Sunni for that matter.

You've made that point abundantly clear. Not sure what you're doing on a Muslim forum or why, seeing as you don't care about these people, you'd even care if they had a civil war, but I'm sure you have your reasons.

But you do have your surreal moments:

Keltoi Quote: One thing you do not want to see first thing in the morning before coffee is an Apache gunship with bad intentions.

It was amusing at the time only because I happened to be wearing a T-shirt that read: Just give me my coffee... and no one gets hurt. But if the people (yourself included) vye for one side or the other, the format is presented much like a football game. The fact that you're so satisfied about your "side" is disturbing, but I've grown accustomed to this from the Americans. I haven't had to deal with much of it from the various parties who are involved in the war. For the most part, the Sunnis in Iraq have asked questions like: What do you expect us to do? or What do you think we should do? or the infamous argument-ender: What would you do? And I have to admit, all three of these questions have me stumped.

They have produced, what I consider to be, justification for their various responses, but they have made it abundantly clear that they're open to advice. For this, they certainly have one up on President Bush, who has done nothing but refuse advice when it interferes with his agenda, regardless of who it comes from. They also have one up on the side-liners who seem to feel they're enjoying themselves.

And when I say I've grown accustomed to the Americans, I mean the civilians and the talking heads on TV. You don't get much of this from the soldiers themselves. In fact, some very substantial testimony has been published, that casts the U.S. involvement in Iraq in a very nasty light. But, much like President Bush, you're perfectly willing to ignore the bulk of it to protect his agenda.

Ninth Scribe

[mahdisoldier19]

No! People getting killed doesn't make me happy. And people differ on who the enemy is. I can't ponder how sickened with hate someone would have to be to rejoice over anyone's death.

You know this is an interesting Post i will explain why. You stated "People getting killed doesn't make me happy." Typical answer considering i don't know your back round in war environments, Any SANE man who sees his family killed right in front of him and sees the men laughing and bragging to the world that they were terrorists would undoubtedly attack, unless you have so much love for your enemy that you put them first over your own wife, son and the rest of the family.

This similar situations had occurred in Afghanistan and Iraq. If you want evidence, Like i do 99 percent of the time i will provide evidence, but most likely you will reject.

[wilberhum]

For me Afghanistan and Iraq are two different wars with two different causes.
The only thing they have in common is the US is involved.

[MTAFFI]

isnt it interesting that some will rejoice that a US helicopter was shot down, supposedly, by unknown and at the same time, go to another thread and talk of a woman, that was supposedly raped for information, and talk of what a horrible incident it is? Is the killing of these people in the helicopter any worse than raping a woman? To me they are equally disgusting acts of violence, whether it is an act of war or not. The reason I say this is because the same men who did this could be in a village tomorrow raping someone or torturing someone or setting up a mass grave. So go ahead cheer for these people, those of you who cheer for them deserve to have them as your next leaders or militia men. Lets see how they treat you, apparently this whole region needs oppression and ruthless dictators because this is what happens when there is not one, the people are as bad as the dictators.

[Keltoi]

You've made that point abundantly clear. Not sure what you're doing on a Muslim forum or why, seeing as you don't care about these people, you'd even care if they had a civil war, but I'm sure you have your reasons.

But you do have your surreal moments:

Keltoi Quote: One thing you do not want to see first thing in the morning before coffee is an Apache gunship with bad intentions.

It was amusing at the time only because I happened to be wearing a T-shirt that read: Just give me my coffee... and no one gets hurt. But if the people (yourself included) vye for one side or the other, the format is presented much like a football game. The fact that you're so satisfied about your "side" is disturbing, but I've grown accustomed to this from the Americans. I haven't had to deal with much of it from the various parties who are involved in the war. For the most part, the Sunnis in Iraq have asked questions like: What do you expect us to do? or What do you think we should do? or the infamous argument-ender: What would you do? And I have to admit, all three of these questions have me stumped.

They have produced, what I consider to be, justification for their various responses, but they have made it abundantly clear that they're open to advice. For this, they certainly have one up on President Bush, who has done nothing but refuse advice when it interferes with his agenda, regardless of who it comes from. They also have one up on the side-liners who seem to feel they're enjoying themselves.

And when I say I've grown accustomed to the Americans, I mean the civilians and the talking heads on TV. You don't get much of this from the soldiers themselves. In fact, some very substantial testimony has been published, that casts the U.S. involvement in Iraq in a very nasty light. But, much like President Bush, you're perfectly willing to ignore the bulk of it to protect his agenda.

Ninth Scribe

As for the discussion on the Apache attack helicopter, I wasn't celebrating anyone's death. I didn't see any of it as a "victory", which is what was being put forward here. I used humor in a discussion about how frightening it would be to wake up to a helicopter attack at dawn. I have never celebrated anyone's death, nor do I consider each death a "little victory", as a certain poster stated. It has nothing to do with being "satisfied" with my side. I'm completely unsatisfied with the civilian leadership's decisions and goals.

As for "protecting" President Bush's agenda, I'm not sure what your point is or how you came to that rather dubious conclusion. The fact that I don't support an immediate pullout has nothing to do with Bush, but about keeping our promises to the Iraqis who have placed their trust in the U.S. presence, at least those that have done so, and to uphold our responsibilities in stabilizing an unstable situation.

[Ninth_Scribe]

The fact that I don't support an immediate pullout has nothing to do with Bush, but about keeping our promises to the Iraqis who have placed their trust in the U.S. presence, at least those that have done so, and to uphold our responsibilities in stabilizing an unstable situation.

The Iraqis? What Iraqis? The country was stable before the invasion. The invasion is what caused it to become unstable. The promises you want to keep are to a government who behaves no differently than Zarqawi - and has proved it on more than one occassion! I knew they could do that much for me. Keltoi, I would have to pound down 60 mgs of methadone just to figure out how to see through those closed eyes the way you do. You actually believe all this dribble. This country was founded by a bunch of rich, aristocratic, slave-owning, white men... who didn't want to pay their taxes. That's what they're trying to shovel to the rest of the world.

But that's ok. It's not like you and I have to listen to each other. We don't even have to like each other. You just keep rambling about the great USA - I'll be over here - counting the copters.

Ninth Scribe

[Keltoi]

The Iraqis? What Iraqis? The country was stable before the invasion. The invasion is what caused it to become unstable. The promises you want to keep are to a government who behaves no differently than Zarqawi - and has proved it on more than one occassion! I knew they could do that much for me. Keltoi, I would have to pound down 60 mgs of methadone just to figure out how to see through those closed eyes the way you do. You actually believe all this dribble. This country was founded by a bunch of rich, aristocratic, slave-owning, white men... who didn't want to pay their taxes. That's what they're trying to shovel to the rest of the world.

But that's ok. It's not like you and I have to listen to each other. We don't even have to like each other. You just keep rambling about the great USA - I'll be over here - raining helicopters.

Ninth Scribe

Yeah, you hate the U.S....that his obvious. Thanks for your contributions.

[wilberhum]

The country was stable before the invasion.

Well a true statement evolves. But so was Nazi Germany.

[Woodrow]

Historically the most stable governments have been Monarchies and dictatorships.

Stability does not always mean good. Sort like health in a person, the only truly time a person's health is stable is when they are dead.

[Cognescenti]

Historically the most stable governments have been Monarchies and dictatorships.

Stability does not always mean good. Sort like health in a person, the only truly time a person's health is stable is when they are dead.

:smile:

[imaad_udeen]

For me Afghanistan and Iraq are two different wars with two different causes.
The only thing they have in common is the US is involved.

And the British and Al Qaeda and others.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Is the killing of these people in the helicopter any worse than raping a woman?

To me, the helicopter pilot is not a civilian and was engaged in a battle for what ever reason the U.S. sees fit to trump up. Correction: 'I' believe it was a trump! Based on other information I have, I have made a judgement call. I expect the Iraqis to defend themselves from, what I believe to be, an illegal invasion. Who they choose for allied champions is not my concern.

I don't agree with Al Qaeda's vision of Islam only because, to be blunt, Shariah cannot be installed upon the whole of the Earth while there are currently disputes between the Muslims themselves on exactly what Shariah is. That is my only bone of contention. Their argument against Israel has some merit, their complaint against the Shia in Iraq has some merit, and their methods in battle are no different than U.S. standards. I did want to challenge them on the decree allowing innocents to be killed in the name of war, but I'm not in any position to require that while my own soldiers are there with identical orders. I pity the civilians as much as anyone else does, but regardless of whose side you're on, their lives were written off as forfeit the moment Shock and Awe was initiated. That is what named Iraq a battle-field.

I'm actually past caring about who started the war, but I don't believe America will win it.

Ninth Scribe

[wilberhum]

I don't agree with Al Qaeda's vision of Islam only because, to be blunt, Shariah cannot be installed upon the whole of the Earth while there are currently disputes between the Muslims themselves on exactly what Shariah is.

So when the disputes between the Muslims themselves on exactly what Shariah is, you will agree with Al Qaeda's vision of Islam?

[KAding]

Power to the people. Power to the opressed! Time and Time Again! Down with the agressors, down with the state terrorsit!

Afghanistan is not a simple case. Different groups of Muslims had been fighting eachother for over a decade already before the Americans intervened. The Americans didn't even do the majority of the fighting, this was done by local allies. Afghanistan is not a country that is united behind the Taliban.

If it is:

• Why was there a civil war going on before the Americans showed up in 2001?
• Why did millions upon millions of Afghan refugees which fled in the last few decades return to their homes after the fall of the Taliban? More than 5.5 million refugees returned since 2001! Approximately 3.5 remain abroad. (Source UNHCR)
• Why did a majority of the Afghans turn out to vote in both the Presidential and Parliamentary elections in 2004 and 2005? Why did a majority of these vote for the current president? These elections were both monitored by the UN, which has lots of experience on this. If people wanted the Taliban to return and rejected the new government and institutions, why did they go out and vote? Why did the people not boycot the elections? (Source)
• Why have opinion polls in Afghanistan showing over and over that the Taliban are not popular at all? Why do people consider the Taliban the biggest threat to Afghanistan? Why did a 2005 poll show that a whopping 87% considered the ouster of the Taliban a good thing? Even the Pashtun interviewed believed so. Why do people feel secure everywhere in Afganistan, except in the south, where the Taliban are frequently on the offensive? If the Afghan national army and the coalition forces are so bad, why do people feel only insecure in the areas in which the Taliban is active? Why are people becoming less optimistic the stronger the stronger the Taliban gets? (Source 2006 BBC World Poll PDF, 2005 Poll)

None of these indicators make any sense if you view the Taliban as a liberation movement with popular support. At best they have some support among the Pashtun in the south. But it appears clear to me, both by actual voting, voting by using their feet (return of refugees) and polls that Afghans do not want to be liberated by the Taliban. They want peace, something that is pretty much only absent in the Kandahar and Helmand provinces at the moment, which happen to be the provinced in which the Taliban is still very active.

Look, if you disagree, you'll have to come up with information showing you are right. Information which shows that the Taliban really have majority support, that the Afghans are truly waiting to be liberated. Just because you would want to live under Taliban rule does not mean the majority of the Afghans agree.

[Woodrow]

As a mod I do appreciate your kind concerns and suggestions as to how to moderate. However, since I am basically very lazy and do not like to read, Please make it easy on me and use the report button to express your concerns about a specific post.




A few threads have been deleted. Now let us return to the topic.

[cool_jannah]

Its a shame that regular Afghani soldiers can beat the crap out of a navy seal. Thats pretty embarrassing. US should quit just because of this humiliation. Just imagine if the Afghan soldiers were actully trained to fight.
I bet face to face a navy seal cannot stand up against a Afghani Mujahid. Pretty much all American/British/Infedel soldiers are a bunch of cowards I would say. Yea.

[SilentObserver]

Its a shame that regular Afghani soldiers can beat the crap out of a navy seal. Thats pretty embarrassing. US should quit just because of this humiliation. Just imagine if the Afghan soldiers were actully trained to fight.
I bet face to face a navy seal cannot stand up against a Afghani Mujahid. Pretty much all American/British/Infedel soldiers are a bunch of cowards I would say. Yea.

In hand to hand combat you mean? I seriously doubt that. The afghans are superb tactical fighters in mountainous terrain, but have not proven themselves at hand to hand combat. The american navy seals are skilled close contact fighters.

[Keltoi]

In hand to hand combat you mean? I seriously doubt that. The afghans are superb tactical fighters in mountainous terrain, but have not proven themselves at hand to hand combat. The american navy seals are skilled close contact fighters.

Skilled is an understatement.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
If you would like to 'debate' about Afhganistan or the taliban or even sharia law, please either create a new thread or use the search function and carry one on from there. This thread was originally a news report, so realistically there should be very little debating going on at all.

[Keltoi]

:sl:
If you would like to 'debate' about Afhganistan or the taliban or even sharia law, please either create a new thread or use the search function and carry one on from there. This thread was originally a news report, so realistically there should be very little debating going on at all.

Well, since the event is long over and the world is still spinning, there probably isn't much more to discuss on this topic.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

Well, since the event is long over and the world is still spinning, there probably isn't much more to discuss on this topic.

In which case, thread locked :statisfie