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al-fateh
02-21-2007, 07:32 PM
Salam, i posed this question on my forum and we had a great conversation about it, i will pose the same question here, and would like to see the replies inshallah

we as muslims nowadays are even more divided due to nationalism and labeling one another as people from different countries and different backgrounds...this is the reality of the time we are in now.

do you think that as Muslims, it would be better not to have such naming in nations, because it even brought more division with Muslims and even non-muslims..

what do you say?
http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12676
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- Qatada -
02-21-2007, 07:47 PM
:wasalamex


Islaam recognises that we're from different cultures, different colors - because if we were all looked exactly the same, we wouldn't recognise each other etc. But the only reason the muslim world has split up into even smaller parts is due to the colonialists of the west, who went to the muslim lands to split them up.. especially since we were in a weak state [because we turned away from Allaah's religion] which made us even more weaker. And that was of their biggest aims. This way they don't have a threat because we will be more disunited and they can take the resources from them lands easily.


However when the muslims had a true islamic state, there wouldn't be countries, but they would be big cities with a governor who works for the khalifah. That's why we have famous scholars like Imaam Al-Nawawi Al-Damishqi. Or Ibn Hajar al-Askalaani etc.

Damashq is known as Damascus which is in Syria today i think. So you see that it wasn't labelled Syria, or Lebanon, or Jordan or Palestine. But that was all labelled under Al-Shaam. And the people were known from their cities from the islamic state.


We know that nationalism is forbidden in islaam, especially when this nationalism pride comes before their religion. But i don't think there is nothing wrong with following one's culture so long as the culture doesn't go against islaam.


Here's a good thread about islaam prohibiting Asabiyya [nationalism, tribalism etc.]:
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ht=Nationalism



Allaah knows best.
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Count DeSheep
02-22-2007, 01:17 AM
Yes, I'm all for nationalism. For everyone, really. Whiteland, Blackescotia, Hispanicsville, Muslimington, Racistpeoplesburg...Huzzah for nationalism! Everyone needs to be seperated from people different from them. Variety is bad. It promotes cultural understanding and compassion. Totally horrible. Can you imagine an arab Sunni and a black Baptist being friends, or even getting married?! How bad things would be. Nationalism all the way, man.

[/sarcasm]
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strider
02-22-2007, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by Count DeSheep
Yes, I'm all for nationalism. For everyone, really. Whiteland, Blackescotia, Hispanicsville, Muslimington, Racistpeoplesburg...Huzzah for nationalism! Everyone needs to be seperated from people different from them. Variety is bad. It promotes cultural understanding and compassion. Totally horrible. Can you imagine an arab Sunni and a black Baptist being friends, or even getting married?! How bad things would be. Nationalism all the way, man.

[/sarcasm]
I would have found that alittle more appreciative if it hadn't been for the fact that in certain sections of our society people really do think like that.
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by al-fateh
Salam, i posed this question on my forum and we had a great conversation about it, i will pose the same question here, and would like to see the replies inshallah



http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12676
We are the flowers of the same garden (Islam). All of us have different colors and different frangrances. If we recognize and appreciate each others different qualities, then we can grow in a much better way. We've already damaged the Ummah by ignoring/supressing the qualities of different Muslim nationalities.
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SATalha
02-22-2007, 06:16 PM
Foe me my home nation as country doesnt mean much. Nationalism is what seperated us in the first place. For me Bengali, Pakistani, Afgani, Arab where all the same!!!!
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by SATalha
Foe me my home nation as country doesnt mean much. Nationalism is what seperated us in the first place. For me Bengali, Pakistani, Afgani, Arab where all the same!!!!
I agree with you 90%.

Nationalism is a disease which eats the nations. Talking about your own nationalism is like discriminating yourself from others. However, respecting good qualities and traits of each other nationalities is beneficial. Also there's no harm in describing the good features of your nationality to other fellows is not bad. It develops good understanding among the people of the different nationalities.
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SATalha
02-22-2007, 06:26 PM
Yep one good thing that has come out of Bangladesh is Hutki...the bengalis will know what iam on about;D ;D
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by SATalha
Yep one good thing that has come out of Bangladesh is Hutki...the bengalis will know what iam on about;D ;D
What is Hutki? If it's omething really good, then let the others know about it too.
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by SATalha
Foe me my home nation as country doesnt mean much. Nationalism is what seperated us in the first place. For me Bengali, Pakistani, Afgani, Arab where all the same!!!!
Let me come to the analogy of the garden once again. We're different colorful flowers of the same garden. Our plants or roots are different from each other too. But one thing is common in us. That's our leaves are green. Now if someone of us wants to paint one's leaves in the same color as that of the flower, then it's nationalism, which is bad. Similarly, if someone wants us to paint our flowers in green color as well, then that too is bad. That's religious fanaticims.
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SATalha
02-24-2007, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
What is Hutki? If it's omething really good, then let the others know about it too.
Its dried fish we cook dishes with it :exhausted :exhausted :raging: very hot
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SATalha
02-24-2007, 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Let me come to the analogy of the garden once again. We're different colorful flowers of the same garden. Our plants or roots are different from each other too. But one thing is common in us. That's our leaves are green. Now if someone of us wants to paint one's leaves in the same color as that of the flower, then it's nationalism, which is bad. Similarly, if someone wants us to paint our flowers in green color as well, then that too is bad. That's religious fanaticims.
Yeah but we have are not seeing this commoness that you talk about. Some people would give their life for their nation....but not thier religion. ISLAM is what we should strive for :enough!: Thats why it makes me angry to see all the politicians and people arguing debating about the nation. But they dont come from a Islamic point of view, It more nationalistic than anything else.
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wilberhum
02-24-2007, 09:23 PM
I see little difference between nationalism and Islamism. One is based on a government the other on a religion. Extremism in either creates problems.

Either in moderation is a good thing. I think one should be proud of there country and of there religion and I see no reason that they need to be mutually exclusive.
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England
02-24-2007, 09:26 PM
There is nothing wrong with nationalism as long as it doesn't go as far as killing people that aren't from your country. Nationalism is about pride. I am proud that the people of my country were the only ones that stood up to the Germans and never gave up. Even when so many died and London was blitzed the people of our country NEVER gave up and fought 'til the end, even AFTER the Germans stopped and diverted to Russia, Britain aided Russia and continued to fight the Germans. Had the people of this country not been so brave the world would be very different. There are so many things to be proud of.

Football causes division between people in their OWN country, what's your opinion on that? When, say, England play the whole country unites.
Religion also causes division between people around the world. Your opinions on that?
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SATalha
02-24-2007, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I see little difference between nationalism and Islamism. One is based on a government the other on a religion. Extremism in either creates problems.

Either in moderation is a good thing. I think one should be proud of there country and of there religion and I see no reason that they need to be mutually exclusive.
Yeah I know what you mean. But for me my nation matters less, the people matter to me though. For me the answer lies within Islam and thats what the nation should be based on.
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Philosopher
02-24-2007, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by al-fateh
Salam, i posed this question on my forum and we had a great conversation about it, i will pose the same question here, and would like to see the replies inshallah



http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12676
Can't answer, got perm banned there.
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wilberhum
02-24-2007, 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by SATalha
Yeah I know what you mean. But for me my nation matters less, the people matter to me though. For me the answer lies within Islam and thats what the nation should be based on.
Why should a country like the UK that only has a small minority of Muslims be based on Islam?
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SATalha
02-24-2007, 09:42 PM
Dude you got the wrong end of the stick. I dont want that in the UK I am saying where i come from originaly, you know my parents.
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iqbal_soofi
02-24-2007, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by England
There is nothing wrong with nationalism as long as it doesn't go as far as killing people that aren't from your country. Nationalism is about pride. I am proud that the people of my country were the only ones that stood up to the Germans and never gave up. Even when so many died and London was blitzed the people of our country NEVER gave up and fought 'til the end, even AFTER the Germans stopped and diverted to Russia, Britain aided Russia and continued to fight the Germans. Had the people of this country not been so brave the world would be very different. There are so many things to be proud of.

Football causes division between people in their OWN country, what's your opinion on that? When, say, England play the whole country unites.
Religion also causes division between people around the world. Your opinions on that?

National spirit is something which makes you do good things about your country and your country fellows. However to look down upon others is wrong. There's a difference between pride and prejudice. Nationalism creates prejudice in the people.

Religion is something different. Theoratically it's based on teachings for a better life for yourself and for all others but practically it's quite opposite of it. Religious fanatics make their life difficult with religion and the life of others miserable.
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wilberhum
02-24-2007, 10:41 PM
Nationalism creates prejudice in the people.
So does race, religion and just about any thing else.
Religion is something different.
Religion is the greatest prejudice producer in the world. (At least I think so)
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Philosopher
02-24-2007, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Why should a country like the UK that only has a small minority of Muslims be based on Islam?
Good point. You wont expect the same in Muslim countries.
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Philosopher
02-24-2007, 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Religion is the greatest prejudice producer in the world. (At least I think so)
Care to back that up? Dont intertwine religion with politics.
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iqbal_soofi
02-24-2007, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So does race, religion and just about any thing else.

Religion is the greatest prejudice producer in the world. (At least I think so)
You're very right. Wide spread hatred in world is the proof.
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wilberhum
02-25-2007, 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
Care to back that up? Dont intertwine religion with politics.
That is why I stated "I think". It is my personal feeling. You can find a thousand posts on this forum to back it up.
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Philosopher
02-25-2007, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
That is why I stated "I think". It is my personal feeling. You can find a thousand posts on this forum to back it up.
These posts rather intertwine religion with politics. Reza Aslan elucidates this notion in his debate with Sam Harris.
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Akil
02-27-2007, 12:20 PM
There is a difference between and patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism is a love of your country and its people whereas Nationalism is a hate for all those not in your country and a general feeling of superiority. I believe patriotism is or can be positive, whereas nationalism is hateful and divisive.
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