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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 05:07 PM
There're 99 Arabic names of Allah. Each of these 99 names of Allah describe one beautiful characteristic of Allah. Similarly Allah's name in Farsi is Khuda which also describes one of His beautiful charcteristics. 'Khuda' means that Allah comes to help himself without making a formal request. He always helps those who help themselves. He never helps those who keep looking towrds Allahs help and make begging from Allah as a part of their habbits. It seen that such people make money mostly from cheating or unfair means. In contrast, people who trust in Allah and do their best have a lot of self respect. They try their best to fix their problems by themselves and eventually become successful, because Khuda himself comes to help to the people who care for their self esteem.
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Pk_#2
02-22-2007, 05:13 PM
huh
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zaria
02-22-2007, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
There're 99 Arabic names of Allah. Each of these 99 names of Allah describe one beautiful characteristic of Allah. Similarly Allah's name in Farsi is Khuda which also describes one of His beautiful charcteristics. 'Khuda' means that Allah comes to help himself without making a formal request. He always helps those who help themselves. He never helps those who keep looking towrds Allahs help and make begging from Allah as a part of their habbits. It seen that such people make money mostly from cheating or unfair means. In contrast, people who trust in Allah and do their best have a lot of self respect. They try their best to fix their problems by themselves and eventually become successful, because Khuda himself comes to help to the people who care for their self esteem.
Can you further explain this. To my knowledge. You can do nothing without Allah:muddlehea
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Al_Imaan
02-22-2007, 05:21 PM
im not sure wat he/she is trying to say but he/she mentioned khuda...which is what we call Allah on persian or farsi....not sure if it means anything more the G-d or Allah.....^^it would be best if they further explained...
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by zaria
Can you further explain this. To my knowledge. You can do nothing without Allah:muddlehea
Yes you're very right. You can do nothing without Allah. You need Allah's help to do anything. Allah helps those who help themselves. You cannot make Allah do anything for you. He himself decides who to help and when to help. When he wants to help someone, then he comes to help without asking. That's why his name is Khuda (Khud - a, which mean come by himself) .
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Pk_#2
02-22-2007, 05:25 PM
i still dun get it dou
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by tasmiyah_B
i still dun get it dou
Which part is difficult? I hope you still understand what is meant by self respect?

For example if you really want to help someone, then you'd help the needy person in such a way which doesn't hurt ones self respect. You should have observed that the respectable people never like to beg for help even when they're in deep crisis. Allah likes respectable people and comes to help them without any formal request.
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zaria
02-22-2007, 06:06 PM
Alllahu Alam
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Maidah
02-22-2007, 06:22 PM
I get what you mean bro, my mom kinda told me something similar. It's like the way we give charity that if you give it with your right hand the left should not get to know about it. And even in praying you should do is as secluded as possible (women). As far as saying that Allah helps those that helps themselves means that let's say you're in trouble, and you seek Allahs help, but unless you make an effort to get out of it yourself, Allah cannot help you. Allah is the one who creates miracles, but we as humans cannot expect for a miracle from his side. You should strive to achieve something to the best of your ability and streanght, then leave it to Allah, and he is the most merciful & benevolent, and he may just create a miracle as he pleases.

I know it's a bad way to explain this but i get what you're tryin to say.
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Maidah
I get what you mean bro, my mom kinda told me something similar. It's like the way we give charity that if you give it with your right hand the left should not get to know about it. And even in praying you should do is as secluded as possible (women). As far as saying that Allah helps those that helps themselves means that let's say you're in trouble, and you seek Allahs help, but unless you make an effort to get out of it yourself, Allah cannot help you. Allah is the one who creates miracles, but we as humans cannot expect for a miracle from his side. You should strive to achieve something to the best of your ability and streanght, then leave it to Allah, and he is the most merciful & benevolent, and he may just create a miracle as he pleases.

I know it's a bad way to explain this but i get what you're tryin to say.
You put it in a very good way. Allah may just create miracles as he please. You cannot make him create the miracles no matter what you do to make it happen. He does everything himself. Whatever He does is the best. That why he is Khuda.
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zaria
02-22-2007, 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
You put it in a very good way. Allah may just create miracles as he please. You cannot make him create the miracles no matter what you do to make it happen. He does everything himself. Whatever He does is the best. That why he is Khuda.
Masha'Allah
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- Qatada -
02-22-2007, 07:59 PM
:salamext:


Akhi i think we should call Allaah by His names in arabic. Because Allaah chose the arabic language to describe His ownself:

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm


So we should stick to that instead insha'Allaah. The descriptions in other languages are descriptions. For example Abdullah in arabic is the real name, and 'Worshipper of Allaah' is just the translation of it, its not the actual name itself.

The same way words in other languages might just be descriptions but the real names of Allaah are in arabic. So let's stick to that insha'Allaah. And Allaah knows best.
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Akhi i think we should call Allaah by His names in arabic. Because Allaah chose the arabic language to describe His ownself:

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm

So we should stick to that instead insha'Allaah. The descriptions in other languages are descriptions. For example Abdullah in arabic is the real name, and 'Worshipper of Allaah' is just the translation of it, its not the actual name itself.

The same way words in other languages might just be descriptions but the real names of Allaah are in arabic. So let's stick to that insha'Allaah. And Allaah knows best.
Subhanallah. We should call Allah by no other names than Allah. However, we may recall or remember Him by his other names that describe His different charachteristics. Great Human beings don't need to hear the begging when somebody is in need of help. They themselves come forward to help. The name Khuda reminds us that Allah is the greatest. You can always trust Him especially when you're in real need. He will come to help by Himself. Never loose your self respect. He doesn't like the beggers of any kind.
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- Qatada -
02-22-2007, 08:18 PM
:salamext:


But we should pray to Allaah whenever we are in need of help :) The same way the prophets, and the righteous would do. Yes Allaah knows what is in our hearts and minds, but if the prophets called out to Allaah at times of distress, then we follow their example and do the same. We are in need of Allaah and He is not in need of us, so we show him our weakness in order that He will help us insha'Allaah. :)
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NobleMuslimUK
02-22-2007, 08:18 PM
Brother I think you mean 99 are names and also attributes, of course Allah SWT's attributes are countless. Allah SWT loves his slave who calls upon him and only upon him whether it be in happiness or sadness. A lot of people just do in times of difficulty. In happiness you express your gratitude of course. Allah SWT is aware of every single action before we even thought about it let alone doing it, Allah SWT loves his slave 70 times more than a mother loves her child, Allah SWT doesnt like it when his slave is in distress or in difficulty so he sends help through anyone and anything he wishes. Also Allah SWT should be only called upon in arabic, I heard the name most beloved to Allah SWT is Ya Rabb.
Havent you heard of the idol worshipper calling upon his idol Ya Sanam, he once said by mistake Ya Samad which is one of Allah SWT's name.
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Maidah
02-22-2007, 08:54 PM
Ok should one not worry about respect in places where there is a fear to loose respect. I don't think this is applicable to Allah. The point here is that Allah is the source of respect for us, it is given to us by Allah we cannot create it because he does as he pleases. And it's also sad that when you make dua make it like a beggar and beg for Allah's mercy, you wont merely get it because you have asked for it but you have to prove that you sincerely want it. Worrying about respect is only for in-between people in this world. Allah will only come forward to help you when you call out to him, and liek bro Fi said we have to show him our weakness if he is to help us. There is no room for respect or pride in this case. The point here is that even though Allah knows our intentions, the gap between intention and action is still there. ALLahs 99 names are his attributes but it is not to say that if you say Al-Ghafooro (who forgives all) in times when you are asking for Allahs forgiveness, and say Al-Adalo(The justice) when you want justice. One can refer to him with his qualities but we should refer to him as Allah.
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Maidah
Ok should one not worry about respect in places where there is a fear to loose respect. I don't think this is applicable to Allah. The point here is that Allah is the source of respect for us, it is given to us by Allah we cannot create it because he does as he pleases. And it's also sad that when you make dua make it like a beggar and beg for Allah's mercy, you wont merely get it because you have asked for it but you have to prove that you sincerely want it. Worrying about respect is only for in-between people in this world. Allah will only come forward to help you when you call out to him, and liek bro Fi said we have to show him our weakness if he is to help us. There is no room for respect or pride in this case. The point here is that even though Allah knows our intentions, the gap between intention and action is still there. ALLahs 99 names are his attributes but it is not to say that if you say Al-Ghafooro (who forgives all) in times when you are asking for Allahs forgiveness, and say Al-Adalo(The justice) when you want justice. One can refer to him with his qualities but we should refer to him as Allah.
This topic is only about the names of Allah. The meanings from all of His different names make Him look great; But the meanings of Khuda make Him look the greatest. One who comes to help by himself. So please help others in need like He does without hurting the self respect of others. This will make you look great too. Give this a try, and you'll feel the difference.
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aLiTTLeTiMe
02-22-2007, 09:38 PM
can you look this webside..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RX4mLCGxY4
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NobleMuslimUK
02-22-2007, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
This topic is only about the names of Allah. The meanings from all of His different names make Him look great; But the meanings of Khuda make Him look the greatest. One who comes to help by himself. So please help others in need like He does without hurting the self respect of others. This will make you look great too. Give this a try, and you'll feel the difference.
I will have to disagree on your Khuda concept of being the greatest. My reason simply are if your thirsty then you must go to the well, the well will not come to you to quench your thirst. You make the effort go to the well or tap get a glass of water, then drink it by first saying Bismillah, then drink in short 3-4 gulps. Once finished you say Alhamdulillah, the water did not quench your thirst, your effort then starting with Bismillah and ending with Alhamdulillah, Allah SWT quenched your thirst. So yes in this case you do have to do something for something to happen for you, you have to invoke, remember, beg and thank Allah SWT.
If we were getting blessings from Allah SWT by just Khud-a as you put it then why would we have to ask and then thank Allah SWT, since everything is blessed from Allah SWT. To get food on the table of course you have to work for it if you are capable of working, if in that case you just begged people on the streets, because of laziness and ease, thats the type of begging Allah SWT does not like. He never said dont beg Him, we must beg for Allah SWT's mercy all the time even though hes the most merciful.
People have many needs some right and some wrong, often people blinded by their ignorance or lack of knowledge will ask for wrong things, such as a long life or huge amounts of wealth, just to live longer and indulge in worldly pleasures, these types of people's hearts get sealed.
Beloved Prophet Mohammed PBUH was standing at Mairaj once HE PBUH saw many things going up and many things coming down. Prophet PBUH asked Jibrael AS, what are the things going up and whats coming down. Jibrael AS explained the things going up are people's deeds, the things coming down are decisions from Allah SWT.

Allah SWT knows best.
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iqbal_soofi
02-22-2007, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
I will have to disagree on your Khuda concept of being the greatest. My reason simply are if your thirsty then you must go to the well, the well will not come to you to quench your thirst. You make the effort go to the well or tap get a glass of water, then drink it by first saying Bismillah, then drink in short 3-4 gulps. Once finished you say Alhamdulillah, the water did not quench your thirst, your effort then starting with Bismillah and ending with Alhamdulillah, Allah SWT quenched your thirst. So yes in this case you do have to do something for something to happen for you, you have to invoke, remember, beg and thank Allah SWT.
If we were getting blessings from Allah SWT by just Khud-a as you put it then why would we have to ask and then thank Allah SWT, since everything is blessed from Allah SWT. To get food on the table of course you have to work for it if you are capable of working, if in that case you just begged people on the streets, because of laziness and ease, thats the type of begging Allah SWT does not like. He never said dont beg Him, we must beg for Allah SWT's mercy all the time even though hes the most merciful.
People have many needs some right and some wrong, often people blinded by their ignorance or lack of knowledge will ask for wrong things, such as a long life or huge amounts of wealth, just to live longer and indulge in worldly pleasures, these types of people's hearts get sealed.
Beloved Prophet Mohammed PBUH was standing at Mairaj once HE PBUH saw many things going up and many things coming down. Prophet PBUH asked Jibrael AS, what are the things going up and whats coming down. Jibrael AS explained the things going up are people's deeds, the things coming down are decisions from Allah SWT.

Allah SWT knows best.

I don't know why you say Khuda (Allah) is not the greatest. He who comes to help without any request is the greatest.

There's a difference between a well and Khuda. A well will never come to the thirsty. However, if a thirsty person makes an attempt to find water, Khuda will help him.

When there was no rain in some religious societies, they used to give sacrifices of different kinds or performed different kinds of rituals or wazeefas to beg for the rain from Allah. But rain didn't follow. It followed only its due course. On the other hand practical people knew when there's going to be no rain, there'd be no rain no matter what kind of rituals or wazeefas, they'd perform. So, they tried different other ideas to bring water to their farms and fields. Khuda helped them and they were successful in developing various kinds of irrigation systems in their societies. Those who begged for rain from Allah, then begged from those who worked to developed their water sources.

You can still see a lot of such people who beg and pray from Allah for everything but do nothing to develop their own resources. They beg, buy or borrow everything from those who developed their sources.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-22-2007, 11:04 PM
:sl:

'Khuda' though it may be a good title is not one of the names of Allaah which is taught to us from the Qur'an or from the Sunnah. We are to stick to the names with which Allaah named himself in the Qur'an and those that the Messenger mentioned in the authentic Sunnah.
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Maidah
02-22-2007, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
This topic is only about the names of Allah. The meanings from all of His different names make Him look great; But the meanings of Khuda make Him look the greatest. One who comes to help by himself. So please help others in need like He does without hurting the self respect of others. This will make you look great too. Give this a try, and you'll feel the difference.
Hmm you know what i don't quite get you now. Correct me if im wrong but khuda is not pne of the 99 names of Allah it's a referral like we say Allah.What i don't get is why the worry of self respect when we're talking about Allah?
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NobleMuslimUK
02-23-2007, 01:34 AM
I hope evidence from the Holy Quran and Hadeeth helps that the main part of getting things done is to ask Allah SWT for them.

“And your Lord has said: “Call to Me, I shall answer your
prayer.” Verily those who are too proud to worship Me, will
soon enter Hell despised and disgraced.”
Ghafir 60

“When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close
(to them): I listen to the prayer of every supplicant when he
calleth on Me: let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and
believe in Me: that they may walk in the right way.”
Al Baqarah 186

“He, Who responds to the cry of the distressed when he calls
to Him and (Who) removes the distress, and (Who) has made
you the successors (of the formers) in the earth? Is there any
Other god besides Allah? You reflect but very little.”
An Naml 62

The Prophet PBUH gave glad tidings to a man who was inspired with du’a
so that he would be among those who would receive the Mercy of
Allah SWT: He said,
“If the gate of du’a are opened before a man, the gates of mercy will
be opened before him. And the most beloved thing with which
Allah loves to be asked is safety.”

The supplicant also received glad tidings from the Prophet r that Allah
I would keep him safe and he would have a special patronage which
would be a weapon to fight the enemies and defend himself with:
“Du’a is a weapon of a Believer, a pillar of religion, and a light of the
heavens and the earth.”
The Prophet r said,
“Do not feel hopeless with du’a since nobody is to be perished with
du’a.” Ibn Hibban
The Prophet r also said,
“Would I guide you to what would protect you against your
enemies and bring you provision?” ‘Supplicate to Allah by day and
night for supplication is the weapon of a believer.”
The Prophet PBUH also gave glad tidings to the person who supplicates to
Allah SWT so that his supplication would be answered and that his
approach towards Allah SWT would be accepted:
“Allah is Ever-Merciful and Ever-Generous to the extent that when
man lifts his hands skyward (invoking Allah), He dislikes to reply
without rewarding Him.”
The Prophet PBUH explained also how the answer can be achieved. The
answer, whether simultaneously or delayed, is good for the supplicant.
Thus his affair, whether he knows or not, is altogether good for him.
The Prophet r said,
“If a Muslim invokes Allah SWT anything besides sin or severing
relations, Allah SWT in turn responds to his du’a in one of three cases;
either to accept it, delay his reward in the Hereafter or removes a
calamity from him that equals his du’a.

The Companions said, “We will then supplicate a lot.”
The Prophet r replied. “Allah will reward you greatly.”
Then the Prophet r illustrated how the answer of a du’a is good in all
its forms when a man sees the fruits of his du’a which he thought was
not answered.
In another ahadith Prophet PBUH said,
“On the Day of Judgement, Allah will call a believer until he
stands before Him. Allah will say, ‘O My servant, I have
commanded you to call upon Me and have promised to answer
you. Did you truly call upon Me?’ He (the servant) will say, ‘Yes, my
Lord.’ Allah will say, ‘Whenever you called upon Me I answered
you. Did you not call upon Me on the day of such and such to
relieve your calamity and I did?’ The servant will say, ‘Yes my Lord.’
Allah will say, ‘I gave it to you in worldly life, Allah will add,
‘Did you not call on Me on the day of such and such to relieve your
calamity but it seemed that I did not reply to you.’ The servant will
say, ‘Yes my Lord.’ Allah will say, ‘I compensated such and such
for you in Paradise.’ Allah will say, ‘Did you not call on Me to meet
your need and I did.’ The servant will say, ‘Yes my Lord,’ Allah will
add, “I gave it to you in worldly life.’ ‘Did you not call on Me on the
day of such and such to meet your need but it seemed that I did not
reply to you.’ The servant will say, ‘Yes my Lord.’ Allah will say, ‘I
compensated such and such for you in Paradise.” The Messenger of
Allah PBUH said, “Allah will never leave out any supplication of a
believer unless He will expound this for him through the following;
either He will give it to him in worldly life or delay it in the Hereafter.
Thereupon, the believer will say, ‘I wish I was given nothing of my
du’a in this world,”
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- Qatada -
02-23-2007, 01:28 PM
:salamext:

99 Names of Allaah

Media Tags are no longer supported


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFh6gXmWdIo
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------
02-23-2007, 01:32 PM
:sl:

As far as I know, 'Khuda' is just a Persian Name for 'God'. It is not in the 99 names of Allah swt so I think we should stick to the Sunnah and call upon Allah within those 99 names.

Allahu 3alim

:w:
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iqbal_soofi
02-23-2007, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Maidah
Hmm you know what i don't quite get you now. Correct me if im wrong but khuda is not pne of the 99 names of Allah it's a referral like we say Allah.What i don't get is why the worry of self respect when we're talking about Allah?
Self respect is the most important character for every person. A person who doesn't have any self respect have no respect for others, even for Allah.

The concept of Khuda is not new. When this concept was made popular in Muslims, Muslims became the most respected power on earth. Read the great Muslim scholars like Maulan Rumi, Hafiz Saadi Shirazi and others of their time. Muslims made great inventions and scientific developments only when they learnt how to uphold their self respect. Instead of begging and praying for everything, they worked hard to find new things for themselves.

Now let me explain when and how the movement against khuda was started. It was the time of the last Khilfat when the western powers wished to break Muslims into pieces. They found that there was a powerful group of dacoits and looters which protected their business of looting using the name of Allah. They did nothing but used to attack other Muslim tribes who were wealthy because of their hard work and use of developed sciences of that time. As you know the dacoits attack the self respect of their victims in order to supress any possible resistance. This was a group of Whabis which was headed by Saud at the time when western powers first tried to exploit them against the biggest Muslim Khilafat. Very soon they were successful in breaking the khilafat to bits and pieces. After that they used this group for their political victories every where in Muslims and even against their other rival including the USSR. Now most of the Muslim Madrisas are changing their teachings according to ****** concept. they wish to kill the self respect of Muslims. It is good for them and good for their masters but it not good for Muslims. Muslims who lost their self respect have become social criminals. They hate others, they hate everyone, they hate themsleves. They do all kinds of corruption but love to perform rituals and worships the way the exploiters of the name of Allah want them to. They can destroy anything in the name of Allah. Only thing they cannot do is develop their own resources. They line up in front of western embassies to get a visa into those countries which they hate most. They don't know what they're doing and where they're going. It's because they have lost their self respect.
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- Qatada -
02-23-2007, 02:02 PM
:salamext:


Akhi iqbal, since when did the prophets or the sahabah care about their respect in the sight of Allaah? It is Allaah, the One who raises and decreases our respect in the sight of others - so we should humble ourselves infront of Him, the All Powerful.


Don't you see that the prophets and righteous would do all that they had power over in this world, and then put their trust in Allaah through prayer/dua' etc? And they are the best among mankind so we follow their way. We don't interpret it according to our own understanding.
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iqbal_soofi
02-23-2007, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


But we should pray to Allaah whenever we are in need of help :) The same way the prophets, and the righteous would do. Yes Allaah knows what is in our hearts and minds, but if the prophets called out to Allaah at times of distress, then we follow their example and do the same. We are in need of Allaah and He is not in need of us, so we show him our weakness in order that He will help us insha'Allaah. :)
First of all we must have full faith in Allah. He has already given us all kinds of blessings. He placed everything close to us. He has never added anything into the universe or taken anything out of it at least for the past many million years. He also gave us an extra ordinary brilliant brain with which we can use all his blessings for our benefit and for the benfit of others in this universe. It's our thanklessness if we always show him our weaknesses and incapabilities and beg for his mercy. Only some greedy or crinimal people would like not to use their brain or don't like to do some work to make something useful from the blessings of Allah. They try to fake in front of Allah to show their weaknesses or limitations in order not to work. But when the same people face other people, they show themselves to be very powerful and strong and want to grab lions share from other peoples' hard work. They use the name of Allah to kill and supress the self respect of others and to show their supermacy on others.
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iqbal_soofi
02-23-2007, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Akhi iqbal, since when did the prophets or the sahabah care about their respect in the sight of Allaah? It is Allaah, the One who raises and decreases our respect in the sight of others - so we should humble ourselves infront of Him, the All Powerful.


Don't you see that the prophets and righteous would do all that they had power over in this world, and then put their trust in Allaah through prayer/dua' etc? And they are the best among mankind so we follow their way. We don't interpret it according to our own understanding.
Instead of indulging into an arguement like illiterate mullahs, I'd advise you to read the Muslim history. Try to know about the charchter of Muslims when they were respected by others. Try to learn about Muslims whose example the west followed and became powerful. Try to learn about the scholars who made Muslims into a big power not by sword but with the power of their inventions and developments. You'll find that the name of Khuda was very popularly used in the golden time of Muslim history. Now is the worst and most shameful time of Muslim history. It started with a strong propaganda against the use of the name of Khuda. More we are getting away from Khuda, more shameful and worse situation we're going into. Also you'd not find the use of the 99 names of Allah more in any period than in this one.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-23-2007, 02:49 PM
:sl:

Also you'd not find the use of the 99 names of Allah more in any period than in this one.
So we're not to use the 99 names and use only 'khuda'? Amazing.
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- Qatada -
02-23-2007, 02:50 PM
:salamext:


Brother Iqbal, that has nothing to do with it. We have so much sects in islaam, and you know why that is? It's because we all have our own 'interpretations' of it. Shall i tell you who the saved sect is?

It's the one that the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) explained himself:

"Indeed those from before you from the People of the Book divided into seventy-two groups. And, indeed, this group (Muslims) will divide into seventy-three. Seventy-two groups will be in the Hellfire and one of them will be in Paradise. And it is the Jamaa'ah (group)."

[A hasan hadeeth recorded by Imaam Ahmad and others.]


And in another narration, he said: "Everyone of them in the Hellfire, except for one group that which I and my companions are upon."

[ Sunan At-Tirmidhee; It was declared hasan by Shaikh Al-Albaanee in Saheeh Al-Jaami': no 5219.]

Now what did the Messenger of Allaah say? Did he say that we should follow the way of the muslims who influenced the west? Or did he say that we follow his way and the way of his companions? Because obviously they had the best understanding of it right? :)



These companions called Allaah by His names from the Qur'an and Sunnah as He himself has told us in the Qur'an:

The most beautiful names belong to Allah: so call on Him by them…” (7: 180)

So why don't we simply do that and insha'Allaah we will be of the successful, the same way the companions of the Messenger of Allaah were - in this life and the hereafter. ameen. :)
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Snowflake
02-23-2007, 02:51 PM
Similarly Allah's name in Farsi is Khuda
What would your name be in Farsi? The same right? Then how can sufis say Allah's name is khuda? This is wrong. Unlike Allah, khuda can be applied to anything in the same way as you'd use the word god in English with a small g.

English - rock-god, s**-god
Urdu/Farsi - dharti ke khuda (gods of the land e.g. arrogant people who think they can do as they please)

Surah Al-Isra 17:110:
Say: “Call upon Allah, or Call upon Rahman; By whatever name ye call Upon Him, (it is well): For to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names”. [Al Qur’an 17:110]

The rules of Tawheed make it v. clear that one cannot call Allah (swt) with any new names or attributes which neither Allah (swt) nor His Messenger have used.

Beware!
Reply

NobleMuslimUK
02-23-2007, 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Instead of indulging into an arguement like illiterate mullahs, I'd advise you to read the Muslim history. Try to know about the charchter of Muslims when they were respected by others. Try to learn about Muslims whose example the west followed and became powerful. Try to learn about the scholars who made Muslims into a big power not by sword but with the power of their inventions and developments. You'll find that the name of Khuda was very popularly used in the golden time of Muslim history. Now is the worst and most shameful time of Muslim history. It started with a strong propaganda against the use of the name of Khuda. More we are getting away from Khuda, more shameful and worse situation we're going into. Also you'd not find the use of the 99 names of Allah more in any period than in this one.
Brother I see your point about hypocrites, but do you really think Allah SWT is unaware of an insincere person asking for something.
Yes a lot do use Islam and the name of Allah SWT as a tool to use, put down people or belittle their cause.
Dhikr (rememberance of Allah SWT) of Allah SWT's beautiful names is mentioned in Ahadith, a person who doesnt dhikr is like a dead person.
I feel empty and far from content, if I dont remember Allah SWT, I feel undeserving of blessings if I dont ask or thank Allah SWT for them. I feel my prayers are more sincere when I beg and cry to Allah SWT for forgiveness.

Allah SWT humiliates sinners, and raises the status of noble and pious people. So self respect is connected to our deeds, and now your topic has become very confusing, I dont see what point your trying to make. The ******s i dont know enough about that sect, although they are mentioned and criticised a lot. I watched a documentary called Vatican Assasins, about jesuits etc, they mention ****** is a western created and controlled sect.

Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

snakelegs
02-23-2007, 10:16 PM
i've read about this big controversy before about saying khuda hafiz vs. allah hafiz. to me it just seems silly.
doesn't "khud" actually mean "self"? (which ties in with your comments).
as a non-muslim, english speaking person i use "god" because it is natural. i'm aware that "god" = "allah", but it would be phony for me to say "allah".
does it matter what we call him as long as we call him?
Reply

Maidah
02-23-2007, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i've read about this big controversy before about saying khuda hafiz vs. allah hafiz. to me it just seems silly.
doesn't "khud" actually mean "self"? (which ties in with your comments).
as a non-muslim, english speaking person i use "god" because it is natural. i'm aware that "god" = "allah", but it would be phony for me to say "allah".
does it matter what we call him as long as we call him?

i guess the problem is that we can designate him names of our preference. You can refer to him with his other 99 names but that's just his qulities under his name. only Allah is all knowing of all intentions and i guess when you refer to him, it's the intention that counts.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
02-23-2007, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i've read about this big controversy before about saying khuda hafiz vs. allah hafiz. to me it just seems silly.
doesn't "khud" actually mean "self"? (which ties in with your comments).
as a non-muslim, english speaking person i use "god" because it is natural. i'm aware that "god" = "allah", but it would be phony for me to say "allah".
does it matter what we call him as long as we call him?
Khuda Hafiz is a Farsi term which have been used for centuries. It means, May Allah take care of you." As Khuda means Allah and Hafiz means protection or safety.

Allah Hafiz is a newly devised term which makes no sense. It is made to look like an Arabic version of Khuda Hafiz. It doesn't make sense because Hafiz in Arabic means the one who memorizes (Quran) by heart.

The name Khuda had been in use for many centuries in Muslims when they were making progress and developing. Now the mission is to stop them from making progress and keep them busy only in the fundamentals of Islam. This is in the interest of some Muslim rulers and outside powers.
Reply

Snowflake
02-23-2007, 11:06 PM
Khuda is a common name for anything that people worship, e.g. gods in Greek mythology, Hindu literature and anything else people believe is worthy of worship. Or Khuda is used as one would say God in English. It is certainly not the name of Allah swt.
Reply

- Qatada -
02-23-2007, 11:08 PM
:salamext:


Brother iqbaal, since when did islaam become weak just because people replaced khuda with Allaah? We've mentioned many times continuously throughout the thread that the name Allaah was used by the companions of the Messenger of Allaah, yet they were victorious.
Reply

Snowflake
02-23-2007, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Brother iqbaal, since when did islaam become weak just because people replaced khuda with Allaah? We've mentioned many times continuously throughout the thread that the name Allaah was used by the companions of the Messenger of Allaah, yet they were victorious.
yeh, that baffled me too.. but anyway according to Hadeeth,ALLAH has 99 Attributive names and word 'Khuda' is not part of that.
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- Qatada -
02-23-2007, 11:16 PM
:salamext:


Allaah's names are limitless because if we were to say He has only 99 - that would be limiting Him. But yeah - He has revealed to us 99 in the Qur'an and Sunnah so we should stick to calling Him by them, and words in any other language are simply translations.

Allaah chose to reveal the Qur'an and Sunnah in the arabic tongue out of His eternal Wisdom. So we should be pleased with what He has ordained for us. :) And Allaah knows best.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
02-23-2007, 11:29 PM
:sl:

It doesn't make sense because Hafiz in Arabic means the one who memorizes (Quran) by heart.
A Hafidh is one that protects something. It can apply to anything.

Our greeting is not 'khuda hafiz' or 'Allaah hafiz'. It is "Assalamu Alaikum" and that was the greetings of the Prophets and it is the greetings of the angels in the heavens and it is our greeting which the Messenger :arabic5: has taught us.
Reply

Snowflake
02-23-2007, 11:29 PM
[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Allaah's names are limitless because if we were to say He has only 99 - that would be limiting Him. But yeah - He has revealed to us 99 in the Qur'an and Sunnah so we should stick to calling Him by them, and words in any other language are simply translations.
Oh OK.. I didn't know that. Khair I agree we should stick to what was revealed to us.

Allaah chose to reveal the Qur'an and Sunnah in the arabic tongue out of His eternal Wisdom. So we should be pleased with what He has ordained for us. :) And Allaah knows best.
Exactly why there's no need to associate any more names to Allah swt.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
02-24-2007, 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Allaah's names are limitless because if we were to say He has only 99 - that would be limiting Him. But yeah - He has revealed to us 99 in the Qur'an and Sunnah so we should stick to calling Him by them, and words in any other language are simply translations.
There's no question that Allah names are limitless. They're are great. However, the meanings of Khuda makes him look even greater. This means that He comes to help by himself because He know best who to help and when to help. He doesn't have to be reminded of his duties.

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Allaah chose to reveal the Qur'an and Sunnah in the arabic tongue out of His eternal Wisdom. So we should be pleased with what He has ordained for us. :) And Allaah knows best.
Allah revealed Quran in Arabic to the Arabs because they understood no other langauge better than Arabic. Other nations knew about Allah and His greatnes already. They knew Him from His presence through nature. They made plenty of wonderful civilizations much before Arabs came to know about the message of Allah through different messengers. Allah sent plenty of messengers to Arabs but Arabs altered the messages soon after the messengers were called back. Although they couldn't alter the messages of Quran, but they altered it's interpretations as and when they wished.
Reply

- Qatada -
02-24-2007, 02:02 PM
:salamext:

Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
There's no question that Allah names are limitless. They're are great. However, the meanings of Khuda makes him look even greater. This means that He comes to help by himself because He know best who to help and when to help. He doesn't have to be reminded of his duties.

If Allaah wanted to call Himself 'Khuda' - then He would have named that in the Qur'an. Can you find a verse from Qur'an or from the authentic Sunnah which states that Allaah's real name is Khuda? No translations please. :)


Allah revealed Quran in Arabic to the Arabs because they understood no other langauge better than Arabic. Other nations knew about Allah and His greatnes already. They knew Him from His presence through nature. They made plenty of wonderful civilizations much before Arabs came to know about the message of Allah through different messengers. Allah sent plenty of messengers to Arabs but Arabs altered the messages soon after the messengers were called back. Although they couldn't alter the messages of Quran, but they altered it's interpretations as and when they wished.

Allaah chose these arabs out of His eternal Wisdom to spread on the message to the rest of humanity. He could have chosen Persian/Faarsi people couldn't He, He could have even chosen the Byzantinian Romans? But He never. He chose His final messenger (peace be upon him) to be Muhammad, who was an arab and he spoke arabic.


The arabs actually knew who Allaah was, and they believed in Allaah. Allaah says in the Qur'an:
If thou ask them, who it is that created the heavens and the earth. They will certainly say, "Allah". Say: "Praise be to Allah!" But most of them understand not. [31:25]

If indeed thou ask them who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law), they will certainly reply, "Allah". How are they then deluded away (from the truth)? [29:61]

The reason why Muhammad (peace be upon him) came to them was to tell them that islaam isn't to simply believe that Allaah exists. But its to believe that None is worthy of worship except Allaah [Laa illaaha illAllaah.] So anything which is commanded by Allaah and His messenger has to be obeyed. [Muhammadur RasoolAllaah.]



Also, you said that the arabs kept distorting islaam when the messengers came to them, you're confusing that with the Bani Isra'eel [the children of Isra'eel/Ya'qub ibn Isshaaq ibn Ibraheem] who were the 12 jewish tribes. Allaah sent them many prophets but they distorted the message.

The arab's had 2 messengers, Isma'eel (the son of Prophet Ibrahim) and Muhammad (peace be upon them.) Maybe you could shed light on who else?


You also said that the arabs changed the interpretation of the Qur'an. How can that be the case if the companions of the Messenger of Allaah were the one's who lived the Qur'an while it was being revealed to the Messenger of Allaah himself? How could they be the one's distorting it if it was revealed within their own lifetime, while they were with Allaah's Messenger?

I've already stated that the Messenger of Allaah himself said:

"Indeed those from before you from the People of the Book divided into seventy-two groups. And, indeed, this group (Muslims) will divide into seventy-three. Seventy-two groups will be in the Hellfire and one of them will be in Paradise. And it is the Jamaa'ah (group)."

[A hasan hadeeth recorded by Imaam Ahmad and others.]


And in another narration, he said: "Everyone of them in the Hellfire, except for one group that which I and my companions are upon."

[ Sunan At-Tirmidhee; It was declared hasan by Shaikh Al-Albaanee in Saheeh Al-Jaami': no 5219.]
If the companions themselves never interpreted the Qur'an correctly, even though the Messenger of Allaah taught them the interpretation himself - then how do we know how to perform salaah? Can you actually find evidence from Qur'an to explain to us how much Raka'ah we have to pray in salaah? Or how much to pay in zakaah etc?


It was the companions of the Prophet himself who carried on the message, and if it wasn't for them - then we wouldn't even have islaam in Persia. Or in Syria, or in Pakistan. Or anywhere except the cities of Makkah, Madina and Al-Taa'if. They were the rightly guided ones and Allaah chose them because He knew that they were the most fit to carry on the message to the rest of the world.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
02-24-2007, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:




If Allaah wanted to call Himself 'Khuda' - then He would have named that in the Qur'an. Can you find a verse from Qur'an or from the authentic Sunnah which states that Allaah's real name is Khuda? No translations please. :)





Allaah chose these arabs out of His eternal Wisdom to spread on the message to the rest of humanity. He could have chosen Persian/Faarsi people couldn't He, He could have even chosen the Byzantinian Romans? But He never. He chose His final messenger (peace be upon him) to be Muhammad, who was an arab and he spoke arabic.


The arabs actually knew who Allaah was, and they believed in Allaah. Allaah says in the Qur'an:
If thou ask them, who it is that created the heavens and the earth. They will certainly say, "Allah". Say: "Praise be to Allah!" But most of them understand not. [31:25]

If indeed thou ask them who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law), they will certainly reply, "Allah". How are they then deluded away (from the truth)? [29:61]

The reason why Muhammad (peace be upon him) came to them was to tell them that islaam isn't to simply believe that Allaah exists. But its to believe that None is worthy of worship except Allaah [Laa illaaha illAllaah.] So anything which is commanded by Allaah and His messenger has to be obeyed. [Muhammadur RasoolAllaah.]



Also, you said that the arabs kept distorting islaam when the messengers came to them, you're confusing that with the Bani Isra'eel [the children of Isra'eel/Ya'qub ibn Isshaaq ibn Ibraheem] who were the 12 jewish tribes. Allaah sent them many prophets but they distorted the message.

The arab's had 2 messengers, Isma'eel (the son of Prophet Ibrahim) and Muhammad (peace be upon them.) Maybe you could shed light on who else?


You also said that the arabs changed the interpretation of the Qur'an. How can that be the case if the companions of the Messenger of Allaah were the one's who lived the Qur'an while it was being revealed to the Messenger of Allaah himself? How could they be the one's distorting it if it was revealed within their own lifetime, while they were with Allaah's Messenger?

I've already stated that the Messenger of Allaah himself said:

"Indeed those from before you from the People of the Book divided into seventy-two groups. And, indeed, this group (Muslims) will divide into seventy-three. Seventy-two groups will be in the Hellfire and one of them will be in Paradise. And it is the Jamaa'ah (group)."

[A hasan hadeeth recorded by Imaam Ahmad and others.]


And in another narration, he said: "Everyone of them in the Hellfire, except for one group that which I and my companions are upon."

[ Sunan At-Tirmidhee; It was declared hasan by Shaikh Al-Albaanee in Saheeh Al-Jaami': no 5219.]
If the companions themselves never interpreted the Qur'an correctly, even though the Messenger of Allaah taught them the interpretation himself - then how do we know how to perform salaah? Can you actually find evidence from Qur'an to explain to us how much Raka'ah we have to pray in salaah? Or how much to pay in zakaah etc?


It was the companions of the Prophet himself who carried on the message, and if it wasn't for them - then we wouldn't even have islaam in Persia. Or in Syria, or in Pakistan. Or anywhere except the cities of Makkah, Madina and Al-Taa'if. They were the rightly guided ones and Allaah chose them because He knew that they were the most fit to carry on the message to the rest of the world.

Allah sent most of His messengers to Arabs not because they were the best people. He sent His messengers where they were needed most. We know from the history that Arabs used to burry their daughters on birth and many other stories of evil. These kinds of evil habbits were not found in other nations in such high level. The prophets were Allahs special people. They were very nice too. But unfortunately, they were also Arabs. Some of the bad traditions of Arabs could not be removed by the prophets because they also got invloved into those. In contrast, when other nations adopted Islam, they refined it and didn't follow the bad traditions such as polygamy.
Reply

- Qatada -
02-24-2007, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Allah sent most of His messengers to Arabs not because they were the best people. He sent His messengers where they were needed most. We know from the history that Arabs used to burry their daughters on birth and many other stories of evil. These kinds of evil habbits were not found in other nations in such high level.

:salamext:


Do you have any proof for that or am i just supposed to believe you? :)

Yes the arabs did alot of bad things, so Allaah brought them out of the darkness into light. That's the example Allaah gave us, that Allaah brings the most ignorant of people into the light of islaam and makes them the best among mankind.


Maybe you could name some other prophets who came to the arabs apart from Prophet Isma'eel and Muhammad (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam)?


I really think you're confused with the Bani Isra'eel because they had many prophets and alot of the people rejected them and distorted the message. Some prophets from the Bani Isra'eel include; Prophet Isshaaq, Ya'qub, Yusuf, Musa, Yahya, Eesa, Zakariah, Shamawil, Sulaiman, Dawud.


You can read their biographies from here insha'Allaah:
http://www.islamicboard.com/prophets-islam/index2.html
Reply

- Qatada -
02-24-2007, 05:45 PM
:salamext:

Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Allah sent most of His messengers to Arabs not because they were the best people. He sent His messengers where they were needed most. We know from the history that Arabs used to burry their daughters on birth and many other stories of evil. These kinds of evil habbits were not found in other nations in such high level. The prophets were Allahs special people. They were very nice too. But unfortunately, they were also Arabs. Some of the bad traditions of Arabs could not be removed by the prophets because they also got invloved into those. In contrast, when other nations adopted Islam, they refined it and didn't follow the bad traditions such as polygamy.

Oh ok, you've edited your post now.



Allaah sent messengers to all of mankind as He has stated in the Qur'an:


And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). [Qur'an 16:36]
That is because Allaah is the All-Just (Al-Adl in arabic) and the messengers came with clear proofs which no-one but a prophet could perform, only by the will of Allaah.


The messengers of Allaah were the one's who actually stopped the people from performing these evil deeds like burying their girls alive. Do you see arabs burying their girls alive today? That's because the final messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) who was an arab himself forbade that, so the people obeyed.

You have no proof whatsoever to claim that the Messenger of Allaah got involved in evil acts such as these, because he was the one who actually brought up his daughters; of which include Ruqqaya, Zaynab, Fatima etc. How could he have fallen into this mistake when he had these daughters before he even recieved the message? This shows that he never got involved in the sins of those polytheists of his time.



If you think it was the arabs who were the most backward of people, how about the Persian's at that time who would marry their own sisters? Or how about the people who never even got married but commited fornication, or homosexuality? The arabs did get married to many women, and Allaah has limited that to 4 as it is stated in the Qur'an:

Allaah Almighty says:


And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice]. [Qur'an Al-Nisa 4:3]






Wa-in khiftum alla tuqsitoo feealyatama fankihoo ma tabalakum mina annisa-i mathna wathulathawarubaAAa fa-in khiftum alla taAAdiloo fawahidatanaw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adnaalla taAAooloo

Arba'a in arabic means 4 - four.

In regard to when you say people refined islaam, we don't really need to take their 'refined version' of islaam because it was perfected on the day of Hajj when the Messenger of Allaah himself was on the earth.

Allaah says:

This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

[Qur'an Al Ma'eeda 5:3]

Which mean's we don't need to refine it because Allaah has already perfected it. :) So if there is a perfect piece of art, we don't need to add extra parts to it - otherwise these extra lines may spoil the perfection of it and make it distorted.



Reply

NobleMuslimUK
02-24-2007, 07:14 PM
Ma'shAllah answered very well Fisabillilah, about the polygamy thing.
Brother Iqbal so you were saying? Firstly you make the claim that calling upon Allah SWT by any other name than Khud-a is wrong and the 99names are an innovation added to Islam, when theres clear proof of 99 names and no proof of Khud-a.
Then you claim that anyone asking Allah SWT is seen as a beggar, you're mistaken if you think any living thing in this world is self dependant and not dependant on Allah SWT. Theres again proof that we must seek Allah SWT for anything and everything, because without His will we can do nothing.
Now you claim that muslims practise polygamy when its permitted to marry up to 4 wives if you are able to do justice between all your wives. This doesnt mean that a person who is happy with one wife has to marry more than once.

It seems that you are caught up in innovative state of mind, maybe its part of your culture or its what you narrow mindedly believe despite the evidence saying otherwise.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
02-24-2007, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah


He has revealed to us 99 in the Qur'an and Sunnah so we should stick to calling Him by them, and words in any other language are simply translations.
The 99 names of Allah were not revealved for the first time in Quran. Some of these were already devised and used by Kafirs for their idols (gods) which they kept in Kaaba. They also used to name their children after their gods. For example the name 'Ali' was alrady very common in Arabs before Quran. If you go through the pages of Islamic history you may find many of these names used by kafirs. It was after the capture of Mecca that all the gods or idols in Kaaba were broken and most of their names were then attributed to Allah.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
02-24-2007, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
Brother Iqbal so you were saying? Firstly you make the claim that calling upon Allah SWT by any other name than Khud-a is wrong and the 99names are an innovation added to Islam, when theres clear proof of 99 names and no proof of Khud-a.
Then you claim that anyone asking Allah SWT is seen as a beggar, you're mistaken if you think any living thing in this world is self dependant and not dependant on Allah SWT. Theres again proof that we must seek Allah SWT for anything and everything, because without His will we can do nothing.
Now you claim that muslims practise polygamy when its permitted to marry up to 4 wives if you are able to do justice between all your wives. This doesnt mean that a person who is happy with one wife has to marry more than once.

It seems that you are caught up in innovative state of mind, maybe its part of your culture or its what you narrow mindedly believe despite the evidence saying otherwise.
First of all I never said that calling Allah by any name other than Khuda is wrong. I don't know where you read this from? I always clearly said that all of Allah's names are beautiful and meaningful, but the name Khuda makes him look even greater.

Secondely I said that polygamy was an evil practice before Islam. Arabs used to burry their little duaghters alive because the infulential people had no respect for the little girls and wished to marry them. They didn't hesitate to propose for the little daughters of others sometimes even their close friends. Other people had no choice but to burry their daughters in order to avoid this kind of shameful proposals. Fortunately, these kind of evil pracitces of Arabs didn't spread to other countries where Islam was spread.
Reply

chacha_jalebi
02-24-2007, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
The 99 names of Allah were not revealved for the first time in Quran. Some of these were already devised and used by Kafirs for their idols (gods) which they kept in Kaaba. They also used to name their children after their gods. For example the name 'Ali' was alrady very common in Arabs before Quran. If you go through the pages of Islamic history you may find many of these names used by kafirs. It was after the capture of Mecca that all the gods or idols in Kaaba were broken and most of their names were then attributed to Allah.
ali is a dialect of Allah (swt) thats why when Hadrat Ali (rA) was born in the kabba, RasoolAllah (saw) wanted to name him a unique name and one that was associated with god, so i dont think the name Ali was used before, but do you have any evidence broo

and which names of Allah (swt) were used by the kuffar for their idols? why would Allah (swt) wana use a name used by the idols as a name of his own? come on think about it, the pagans had loads of idols but the main 3 were manat, lat, uzza, and theres different reasons why they had these names!

the reason they had the name lat was because back back in the days, there was a good pious man who used to mix barley and some stuff to make a porridge for the pilgrims who came to do hajj, and because he mixed the porrigde together the people gav him the name al latta, which in arabic means to mix or grind, and when that person died, people start offerin the same porridge at his grave, so the quraish made a idol of him and put it in the kabaa and made the same offerins, which is blatant shirk!

so bro Allah (swt) came up with unique names for himself, why would he want to use names that were already been used for other gods, if he did then people would think he had partners, and we know Allah (swt) is one and has no partners :D

so just think through what ya say :D:D:D
Reply

ABWAN
02-24-2007, 08:12 PM
^^^^
An urdu friend of mine once told me that the word KHUDA has both singular and plural forms. I dont know how true that is. Can you confirm this?

Regarding the practice of buring female babies, I believe you got it wrong when you said only arabs practised it. There have been hindu cultures that have been practising this for centuries and I believe even now.

your comments make me wonder what would have happened IF Quran was revealed in some hindu languauge. Hinduism being a religion of multiple gods with zillions of names for God, I believe any name for God in a Hindi(or any hindu language) Quran would have drawn similar comments. what would that prove?

The bottomline is this - Its better to avoid anything that is doubtful. I have heard some scholars say that there are so many other names for Allah that perhaps hasnt been mentioned in Quran. Since Quran is the Known word of Allah, we know that Allah prefers people to call HIM by those 99 names. *perhaps* there were other names, but arent 99 names more than enough? whats the point in coming up with something new?
Reply

chacha_jalebi
02-24-2007, 08:24 PM
khuda means god in urdu, hindi and panjabi, and hindu have bare gods so maybe in their language it has a plural form, like khudas = more den one, but i dont think muslims use it as a plural:D
Reply

- Qatada -
02-24-2007, 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
The 99 names of Allah were not revealved for the first time in Quran. Some of these were already devised and used by Kafirs for their idols (gods) which they kept in Kaaba. They also used to name their children after their gods. For example the name 'Ali' was alrady very common in Arabs before Quran. If you go through the pages of Islamic history you may find many of these names used by kafirs. It was after the capture of Mecca that all the gods or idols in Kaaba were broken and most of their names were then attributed to Allah.

You can turn the tables around and see why these arabs had these names for themselves and their idols. For example alot of the people had the name Abdullah [worshipper/slave of Allaah] - yet they weren't muslims. Why was this?

It's because if you go back in history, the arabs are split up into two types. The Adnaanioon, and the arabs from Yemen. The Adnaanioon are the one's who came from the lineage of Prophet Isma'eel, and his father was Prophet Ibraheem. Now go anywhere in the Qur'an and see what the religion of Prophet Ibraheem was? It was islaam and whenever the name Ibraheem is mentioned - it always directly reminds you of tawheed - the Oneness of Allaah.


What i'm saying is that the first people to actually 'settle' in Makkah were Isma'eel (when he was a baby) and Hajar his mother. They were all related to Prophet Ibraheem and Ibraheem took them to that desert land because it was a trial from Allaah to show Ibraheem's dedication and sincerety. So the city of Makkah actually was a muslim city from the beginning, and the Yemeni's settled there because Hajar discovered the well of zam-zam, and this is what the Yemeni arabs were looking for. Especially since they had been in the deserts for so long.

So this means the religion of Prophet Isma'eel was the same religion as his father's, and Prophet Isma'eel as he grew up conveyed the religion of his father to the Yemeni arabs. He married into their families. So from there we see that these people were actually muslims. And this true religion carried on for a while after them.



Later on as time progressed - centuries later, there was an arab man who went to Al-Shaam [Greater Syria] and he saw people worshipping idols there. He took the idol to the Ka'aba and started telling the people that it will bring you alot of good. This is the first time shirk began from among these arabs.

There were many different idols, so Al-Laat was used instead of Allaah because Al-Laat is the feminine way of saying Allaah I think. I may be wrong so someone please correct me on that. And Al-Uzza was because of Allaah's Name - Al-Azeez [The Mighty.] Hubbal was the name of the idol the people of Al-Shaam worshipped which the man brought to the arabs.


So you see from there that these people got their names and their idol names from the original Islaam, the religion of Prophet Ibraheem and Isma'eel. :)


And Allaah Almighty knows best.
Reply

- Qatada -
02-24-2007, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
First of all I never said that calling Allah by any name other than Khuda is wrong. I don't know where you read this from? I always clearly said that all of Allah's names are beautiful and meaningful, but the name Khuda makes him look even greater.

Allaah would have chose to name Himself that then don't you think? :) Please get evidence from the Qur'an or Authentic Sunnah to support your claim.

Secondely I said that polygamy was an evil practice before Islam. Arabs used to burry their little duaghters alive because the infulential people had no respect for the little girls and wished to marry them. They didn't hesitate to propose for the little daughters of others sometimes even their close friends. Other people had no choice but to burry their daughters in order to avoid this kind of shameful proposals. Fortunately, these kind of evil pracitces of Arabs didn't spread to other countries where Islam was spread.

Not before islaam, but after the true message had reached them as explained earlier. And we also know that the religion of Adam was Islaam and only around 10 centuries or 10 generations after Adam did people start commiting shirk/polytheism.

Islamically a man can marry his friend's daughter :) so long as it's islamically valid [i.e. she's his non mahram.] :) Infact the arabs wouldn't marry their daughter off to their friend if they were close friends because they felt as if they were like 'blood brothers.' This is one of the reasons why the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) married Aa'isha. To show that these kind of marriages are still allowed in islaam.


People would bury their daughters alive because they thought it was a waste of money, they felt that they would waste their money and she won't be of benefit to them [in their tribalistic wars.] So they used to kill the infant girls. And as we know thats not permitted in islaam. The only reasons they wanted sons was to strengthen their clan and for honor.


Anymore questions? :)
Reply

- Qatada -
02-24-2007, 08:43 PM
:salamext:


This explains abit about the first man who introduced idols, his name was 'Amr bin Luhai. There is a hadith that the Messenger of Allaah saw him walking in the hellfire with his intestines coming out.


Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 723

Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab:

Al-Bahira was an animal whose milk was spared for the idols and other dieties, and so nobody was allowed to milk it. As-Saiba was an animal which they (i.e infidels) used to set free in the names of their gods so that it would not be used for carrying anything. Abu Huraira said, "The Prophet said, 'I saw Amr bin 'Amir bin Luhai Al-Khuzai dragging his intestines in the (Hell) Fire, for he was the first man who started the custom of releasing animals (for the sake of false gods).' "

http://www.ishwar.com/islam/holy_had...book56_02.html


There are more authentic ahadith about the Messenger of Allaah seeing him in the hellfire. We seek refuge in Allaah from that.



Religions of the Arabs

Most of the Arabs had complied with the message of Ismaa'eel (Ishmael) and professed the religion of his father Ibraaheem (Abraham) . They had worshipped Allaah, professed His Oneness and followed His religion for a long time, until a time came when they forgot part of what they had been reminded of. However, they still maintained fundamental beliefs like monotheism as well as various other aspects of Ibraaheem’s religion until the time when a chief of Khuza‘a, namely ‘Amr bin Luhai introduced them to idol-worship. ‘Amr bin Luhai was renowned for his righteousness, charity and reverence for religion, and was granted unreserved love and obedience by his tribesmen. Once, on his return from a trip to Syria where he saw people worshipping idols (a phenomenon he approved of and believed to be righteous since Syria was the locus of Messengers and Scriptures), he brought with him an idol (Hubal), which he placed in the middle of Al-Ka‘bah (the Sacred House) and summoned people to worship it. Readily enough, paganism spread all over Makkah and then to Hijaaz (the region of western Saudi Arabia bordering the Red Sea). A great many idols, bearing different names, were introduced into the area.


Polytheism and worship of idols became the most prominent feature of the religion of pre-Islamic Arabs, despite the alleged profession of Ibraaheem’s religion .


Traditions and idol-worship ceremonies had been mostly introduced by ‘Amr bin Luhai, and were deemed as 'good innovations' rather than deviations from Ibraaheem’s religion. Some features of their idol-worship were:




· Devoting themselves completely to the idols, seeking refuge with them, acclaiming their names, beseeching their help in hardship and supplicating to them for fulfillment of wishes, hoping that the idols (i.e. pagan gods) would mediate with Allaah for the fulfillment of their wishes.


·Performing pilgrimage to the idols, circumambulating around them, self-abasement and even prostrating themselves before them.


· Seeking the favor of idols through various kinds of sacrifices and immolations.


· Consecration of certain portions of food, drink, cattle and crops to idols. Surprisingly enough, portions were also consecrated to Allaah Himself, but the misguided people often found reasons to transfer parts of Allaah’s portion to idols, but never did the opposite.
It has been authentically reported that such superstitions were first invented by ‘Amr bin Luhai.


The Arabs believed that such idols or heathen gods would bring them nearer to Allaah, lead them to Him and mediate with Him for their sake, to which effect, the Quran says (what means):


"And they worship other than Allaah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: ‘These are our intercessors with Allaah.’"[Quran 10:18]


Another divinatory tradition among the Arabs was casting of Azlam (i.e. featherless arrows which were of three kinds: one showing ‘yes’, another ‘no’ and a third was blank), which they used to cast while deciding about serious matters like travel, marriage and the like. If the lot showed ‘yes’, they would go ahead, if ‘no’, they would delay the matter for the next year. Moreover, they used to have a deep conviction in the tidings of soothsayers, diviners and astrologers.


Such was the religious life in Arabia: an ignominious saga of polytheism, idolatry and superstition.




http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive...ang=E&id=69157



Reply

iqbal_soofi
02-24-2007, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


This explains abit about the first man who introduced idols, his name was 'Amr bin Luhai. There is a hadith that the Messenger of Allaah saw him walking in the hellfire with his intestines coming out.


Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 723

Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab:

Al-Bahira was an animal whose milk was spared for the idols and other dieties, and so nobody was allowed to milk it. As-Saiba was an animal which they (i.e infidels) used to set free in the names of their gods so that it would not be used for carrying anything. Abu Huraira said, "The Prophet said, 'I saw Amr bin 'Amir bin Luhai Al-Khuzai dragging his intestines in the (Hell) Fire, for he was the first man who started the custom of releasing animals (for the sake of false gods).' "

http://www.ishwar.com/islam/holy_had...book56_02.html


There are more authentic ahadith about the Messenger of Allaah seeing him in the hellfire. We seek refuge in Allaah from that.



Religions of the Arabs

Most of the Arabs had complied with the message of Ismaa'eel (Ishmael) and professed the religion of his father Ibraaheem (Abraham) . They had worshipped Allaah, professed His Oneness and followed His religion for a long time, until a time came when they forgot part of what they had been reminded of. However, they still maintained fundamental beliefs like monotheism as well as various other aspects of Ibraaheem’s religion until the time when a chief of Khuza‘a, namely ‘Amr bin Luhai introduced them to idol-worship. ‘Amr bin Luhai was renowned for his righteousness, charity and reverence for religion, and was granted unreserved love and obedience by his tribesmen. Once, on his return from a trip to Syria where he saw people worshipping idols (a phenomenon he approved of and believed to be righteous since Syria was the locus of Messengers and Scriptures), he brought with him an idol (Hubal), which he placed in the middle of Al-Ka‘bah (the Sacred House) and summoned people to worship it. Readily enough, paganism spread all over Makkah and then to Hijaaz (the region of western Saudi Arabia bordering the Red Sea). A great many idols, bearing different names, were introduced into the area.


Polytheism and worship of idols became the most prominent feature of the religion of pre-Islamic Arabs, despite the alleged profession of Ibraaheem’s religion .


Traditions and idol-worship ceremonies had been mostly introduced by ‘Amr bin Luhai, and were deemed as 'good innovations' rather than deviations from Ibraaheem’s religion. Some features of their idol-worship were:




· Devoting themselves completely to the idols, seeking refuge with them, acclaiming their names, beseeching their help in hardship and supplicating to them for fulfillment of wishes, hoping that the idols (i.e. pagan gods) would mediate with Allaah for the fulfillment of their wishes.


·Performing pilgrimage to the idols, circumambulating around them, self-abasement and even prostrating themselves before them.


· Seeking the favor of idols through various kinds of sacrifices and immolations.


· Consecration of certain portions of food, drink, cattle and crops to idols. Surprisingly enough, portions were also consecrated to Allaah Himself, but the misguided people often found reasons to transfer parts of Allaah’s portion to idols, but never did the opposite.
It has been authentically reported that such superstitions were first invented by ‘Amr bin Luhai.


The Arabs believed that such idols or heathen gods would bring them nearer to Allaah, lead them to Him and mediate with Him for their sake, to which effect, the Quran says (what means):


"And they worship other than Allaah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: ‘These are our intercessors with Allaah.’"[Quran 10:18]


Another divinatory tradition among the Arabs was casting of Azlam (i.e. featherless arrows which were of three kinds: one showing ‘yes’, another ‘no’ and a third was blank), which they used to cast while deciding about serious matters like travel, marriage and the like. If the lot showed ‘yes’, they would go ahead, if ‘no’, they would delay the matter for the next year. Moreover, they used to have a deep conviction in the tidings of soothsayers, diviners and astrologers.


Such was the religious life in Arabia: an ignominious saga of polytheism, idolatry and superstition.




http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive...ang=E&id=69157



In this way you can justify almost anything but cannot convince anyone except those who want to be convinced any way. But the point is Allah has blessed us with everything already. It's now upto us how to fulfill our rightful needs. Ssome people don't want to work properly and just want to pray and get everything by praying and begging, others work hard and trust in Allah to help them in their struggle for achievement.
Reply

- Qatada -
02-24-2007, 10:13 PM
:salamext:


Yeah i agree, but anyone who is a believer follows the way of the companions and the Messenger's of Allaah. That's why i was hoping you would accept what i've mentioned - especially since its with proof alhamdulillah. :)


EDIT: Since you edit your posts. There are hadith of the Messenger of Allaah who himself said that we should 'tie the camel and then place our trust in Allaah' - so we don't simply pray to Allaah and do nothing. Rather we do all we have control over and then pray to Allaah for help. :) I've mentioned that earlier in the thread alhamdulillah.

So we don't go to either extremes, we don't simply just pray to Allaah without doing nothing. Nor do we just do something without leaving it upto Allaah. But instead we do all we have control over in this world and then ask Allaah Almighty for success, and help in what we do/did. :) That's how the true sucess is earned. And this is the way of the prophets and the righteous.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
02-24-2007, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Yeah i agree, but anyone who is a believer follows the way of the companions and the Messenger's of Allaah. That's why i was hoping you would accept what i've mentioned - especially since its with proof alhamdulillah. :)


EDIT: Since you edit your posts. There are hadith of the Messenger of Allaah who himself said that we should 'tie the camel and then place our trust in Allaah' - so we don't simply pray to Allaah and do nothing. Rather we do all we have control over and then pray to Allaah for help. :) I've mentioned that earlier in the thread alhamdulillah.

So we don't go to either extremes, we don't simply just pray to Allaah without doing nothing. Nor do we just do something without leaving it upto Allaah. But instead we do all we have control over in this world and then ask Allaah Almighty for success, and help in what we do/did. :) That's how the true sucess is earned. And this is the way of the prophets and the righteous.

We're almost on the same note. The only difference is that I believe Allah is great. He himself comes to help you if you're doing something the right way. Your point is that Allah will not come to help you without a formal request even when you're doing something the right way.

I don't mean to say that we should not pray. Praying is something different. We must pray to Allah any way, not just to seek his help. We must perform our duties and trust in Allah. He always does the best for everyone. He himself helps where He deems best, and does not need a reminder or a formal request. He is always watchful and ready.
Reply

- Qatada -
02-24-2007, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
We're almost on the same note. The only difference is that I believe Allah is great. He himself comes to help you if you're doing something the right way. Your point is that Allah will not come to help you without a formal request even when you're doing something the right way.

I don't mean to say that we should not pray. Praying is something different. We must pray to Allah any way, not just to seek his help. We must perform our duties and trust in Allah. He always does the best for everyone. He himself helps where He deems best, and does not need a reminder or a formal request. He is always watchful and ready.

:salamext:


Maasha'Allaah, i agree. :) Allaah alot of the time helps us even though we havn't prayed to Him, but as muslims we should try to keep that constant relationship with Him and pray to Him to show our reliance on Him. Like 'Urwa ibn Al-Zubair, the son of a famous companion of the Messenger of Allaah would pray to Allaah for everything, even the salt for his meals!

So its just showing that the more we rely on Allaah, the better. Because that's showing we're less dependant on the creation. Yes - Allaah does provide for us anyway, but it is ibaadah [worship] to call out to Allaah for help and there is nothing humiliating about that. :)


Alhamdulillah we agree. Jazaak Allaah khayr brother. Take care.


I'm going off now. :)
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
02-26-2007, 02:48 PM
:salamext:

I just thought I would add what Shaykh Uthaymeen (rahimullah) said about Allah's Names and Attributes:

The Names of Allaah are not confined to a fixed and definite number

This is based on the famous hadeeth: "I ask You, O Allaah, by every one of Your Names by which You have named Yourself or revealed in Your Book. Or (those which You have) taught to one of Your creatures or appropriated for Yourself in the knowledge of the Ghaib (Unseen) that is with You." [4]

Specifying and grasping whatever Allaah has appropriated for Himself in the knowledge of the Ghaib (Unseen) that is with Him, is impossible to attain.

The way to combine between this hadeeth and the other authentic hadeeth: "Verily, to Allaah belong ninety-nine names, (by which) whosoever takes account of them (i.e. memorizes, learns and supplicates by them), will enter Paradise" [5] s that the meaning of this (latter) hadeeth is:

"Verily, from among all the names of Allaah are ninety-nine names by which if someone takes account of them, he will enter Paradise."

It does not mean that Allaah's names are restricted to this number (of 99).

The equivalent of this would be if one were to say: "I have one hundred dollars which I have counted out for the purpose of giving in charity." This does not negate that he has other dollars in his possession, which he has counted out for a purpose other than charity.

The Names of Allaah are not affirmed by the intellect - they can only be affirmed by Revelation

The Names of Allaah are based upon Revelation and as such, their affirmation is dependent upon what is reported in the revealed texts concerning them. Therefore, nothing can be added to them nor subtracted. This is because the intellect is not able to itself ascertain which names Allaah is most deserving of. So it is obligatory to depend upon the revealed texts for determining that. Also, naming Allaah with that which He did not name Himself or rejecting what He did name Himself with, is a crime against Him and a perpetration of His right. Thus, abiding by the proper etiquettes with regard to that is obligatory.
Source

:wasalamex
Reply

NobleMuslimUK
02-26-2007, 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by Umm 'Abdullah
:salamext:

I just thought I would add what Shaykh Uthaymeen (rahimullah) said about Allah's Names and Attributes:



Source

:wasalamex
Speaking with non muslims I use God instead of Allah, the reason for this is the fear that they might mock or make fun of the name of Allah, as they can relate to God I use that although to me in my heart its Allah.

As for Brother Iqbal you're gone totally off topic.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
02-26-2007, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
As for Brother Iqbal you're gone totally off topic.
Actually, I started the topic with good spirit but some people gave irrelevant reasoning against Khuda. I went off the topic in order to answer their questions. Maybe they'd tried to trip me off.
Reply

- Qatada -
02-26-2007, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Actually, I started the topic with good spirit but some people gave irrelevant reasoning against Khuda. I went off the topic in order to answer their questions. Maybe they'd tried to trip me off.

I don't think you proved your point, rather you kept claiming without bringing forward any proof whatsoever from the Qur'an or Authentic Sunnah. :)


Thread Closed.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
02-27-2007, 04:51 PM
:salamext:

Can I just add:

18. Do not say "Islam says X" unless your position is based upon sound evidence - which means the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Always cite your sources. If quoting the Qur'an, give soorah (chapter) and ayah (verse) number. For ahadeeth, you must the name of the collection, volume/book number and hadeeth number. Unless you quoting from an agreed-upon authenthic collection (i.e. Bukharee, Muslim) you must also provide authenthic information.
Reply

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