*Poker? Black jack?*

[Strzelecki]

Okay.
So about two weeks ago, I had to go away with school for a few days.
We got some free time so one of my buddies pulls his Texas Hold'em Poker set, basically out of nowhere.

[I love Poker too much. :P ]

Of course we weren't actually gambling [being away with school and all]. And I was just wondering, is playing Poker, Blackjack or any other casino-esque game permissable, if done without betting?

Thanks,
Daniel.

[SUMMAYAH]

I don't know, but I love playing black-jack!
At my parents, I wasn't even allowed to bring a deck of cards into the house never mind play them.
Now when I play with my husband I still feel dead guilty!

[Woodrow]

I wish I had an answer for this. Poker is an interesting game. If properly played between experienced players it is a game of skill and not of chance. Among novice players it is basically chance.

It is popular as a casino game because the dealers have an unfair advantage as they are skilled and most of the players are novice depending on chance.

I can say that I am am certain to play it for money is wrong as it is theft at it's worse and gambling at it's best, both haram.

Now for players to play it as a game of skill with no wagers involved I do not see it as being different than sport competition. For those of us who are no longer physically active, table games of skill are about the only exercise and diversions we have. My personal choice is scrabble.

I believe a scholar should be consulted over poker as to if it is halal if played as a game of skill, for no money. I hope it is halal as many older people find it to be a diversion and source of mental activity. But, because I hope something may be, does not mean that is what it is.

[Strzelecki]

I'm not sure if this would be relevant when it comes to whether Poker is halal or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there:

Poker is not only a game of skill, it's also a game of deception.

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[Woodrow]

I'm not sure if this would be relevant when it comes to whether Poker is halal or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there:

Poker is not only a game of skill, it's also a game of deception.

True, especially if money is involved.

[Strzelecki]

True, especially if money is involved.

Agreed.
But could this raise the question, is this kind of deception halal?
In the sense that, it's like, a competition between friends, you're expected to decieve each other to win the hand. And at the end of the day, no one's feeling are hurt, cos that's just the way the game works!

Daniel.

[Woodrow]

In my own feeling I can not see expected deception to be deception. This is not an attempt to deceive another person out of any material things or to cause any change in their basic beliefs.

To some extent deception is part of all competitive events. If you are playing football is not one of the things you do is to try to convince your opponent you are going to move the ball in one direction, in order to have a clear path to move it in another direction?

[Strzelecki]

In my own feeling I can not see expected deception to be deception. This is not an attempt to deceive another person out of any material things or to cause any change in their basic beliefs.

To some extent deception is part of all competitive events. If you are playing football is not one of the things you do is to try to convince your opponent you are going to move the ball in one direction, in order to have a clear path to move it in another direction?

Good point!:D

[Woodrow]

I still do not know if playing poker for fun is haram or halal. I am hoping it is halal and I can not find anything that I would say classifies it as haram. But, that is my opinion and is a rather moot point as I do not anticipate ever playing poker again any way. I would suggest that if anyone has any doubt as if it is halal they should consult a scholar.

[NoName55]

Agreed.
But could this raise the question, is this kind of deception halal?
In the sense that, it's like, a competition between friends, you're expected to decieve each other to win the hand. And at the end of the day, no one's feeling are hurt, cos that's just the way the game works!

Daniel.

:sl:
Is deception and bluff same in your opinion? (esp.when no money is involved)

example: during wartime, us ole ones are allowed to desguise our hair to look young to decieve the enemy otherwise we can't color our beards back to black in peacetime (if indeed that was our hair colour in the first place)
:w:

P.S. If in doubt, leave it alone (don't do it)

[Strzelecki]

Is deception and bluff same in your opinion? (esp.when no money is involved)

To be honest, it could be. I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this front.

As Woodrow said, it kind of raises the question of whether "Expected deception" is deception at all...

I would suggest that if anyone has any doubt as if it is halal they should consult a scholar.

How does one go about consulting a scholar?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^I wondered this too. I steer away from it now cuz im doubtful.
Allahu Alam. Maybe someone can shed some light on this Insha'Allah.
I admit, it is fun...:X

[Lone]

Quick question loosely related to this topic (or rather gambling).

I'm not sure if anyone here is familiar with the 'fantasy' sports type games i.e. fantasy football, fantasy F1, whereby you have to pay a small fee to enter and then get points along the season depending on your pick of players. The outcome of this is not decided until much later, when the season of the sport ends.

Can anyone confirm whether this would be considered Haram or not?

[Hemoo]

i have found the following Fatwa in www.islamqa.com so read them to know the truth.

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=321&ln=eng&txt=cards

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2898&ln=eng&txt=cards

[Hemoo]

here it is

[Hemoo]

here it is from the site i took it copy & paste ......

Ruling on playing cards

Question:
My I have read in another Islamic website that you shouldn't play cards even if you aren't gambling. If this is true, I don't understand why, if you are just playing for the fun of it. If you would please explain.
Jazaka Allah Khairan.


Answer:

The reasons are:

1. Wasting of time in something which has no benefit in this life nor in the hereafter.
2. This game of cards is based on the idea of gambling, and it resembles playing with dice, which is clearly prohibited in Islaam, as related in the authentic hadeeth of the Prophet

   :

"Whoever plays with dice, would (resemble) one who has tainted his hand with the flesh and blood of a pig," narrated by Muslim (2260).

1. The playing cards include pictures of creations with a soul (the Jack and Queen …).
2. The rancor, enmity, bitterness, and/or ill-feeling which may occur between the players (shahnaa' wa-baghdaa').
3. The game promotes cheating, deception, and trickery (ghish wa-tahaayul).
4. It distracts from the worship of Allaah, and from salaat. Even if one performs salaat on time, and with the congregation in the Masjid, how would he escape the hadeeth of the Prophet

   :

"Everything other than remembering Allah is (considered) wasteful play except four: a man humoring his wife, a man training his horse, a man walking between targets (learning archery), and man learning swimming," narrated by An-Nasaa'i and authenticated by Al-Albaani (Sahih Al-Jami' 4534).

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid