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SoyBoricua
03-04-2007, 05:25 PM
This is just meant as an honest question, no offense intended but...

I do have to ask you guys why are you coming to my Island and my hometown for?
The reasons for asking this will become clear so please bear with me...

PonceMosque001 1 -
This is the mosque that your fellow correligionaires whom most are from Palestine and Jordan and whom for the most part speak neither English nor Spanish have built using money from Saudi Arabia and a few well stablsihed wealthy palestinians such as the owner of El Amal Pharmacies Saleh Yassin.

Now the question is since they do not speak either of the main languages and can't hold jobs why are they here for? Why are the Saudis and the few Wealthy palestinians paying not just for the building of mosques but for the housing, food etc. of muslims brought from the aforementioned places?

Now that the reasons behind me asking are clear can anyone here give an answer?
Thx...
Reply

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Woodrow
03-04-2007, 05:47 PM
Perhaps for the same reason so many have come here to Texas. They came because of opportunity to advance and to fulfill all themselves to their highest Potential.

You may have noticed that Palestine and Jordan and not exactly conducive to people who have good business skills and the like. Does it not make more sense for them to go to areas where they can utilise their skills, earn higher income and use that to help their country men to the best of their ability.

It also makes sense for people to go to an areas where there is high tolerance for Muslims, which apparantly the people of your country shaow and I would assume your country has no laws that would prevent them from living as Muslims.

Yes, some will come for the purpose of helping our religion. However we do not advocate spreading Islam by force or obnoxious Evangelism. We believe that the best way is by example and to let people see that we truly are people of peace and it is our desire to live in Harmony with all people.
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-04-2007, 06:21 PM
muslims have a duty to spread islam as far as they can, perhaps thats what these muslims are trying to do :)
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-04-2007, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Perhaps for the same reason so many have come here to Texas. They came because of opportunity to advance and to fulfill all themselves to their highest Potential.

You may have noticed that Palestine and Jordan and not exactly conducive to people who have good business skills and the like. Does it not make more sense for them to go to areas where they can utilise their skills, earn higher income and use that to help their country men to the best of their ability.

It also makes sense for people to go to an areas where there is high tolerance for Muslims, which apparantly the people of your country shaow and I would assume your country has no laws that would prevent them from living as Muslims.

Yes, some will come for the purpose of helping our religion. However we do not advocate spreading Islam by force or obnoxious Evangelism. We believe that the best way is by example and to let people see that we truly are people of peace and it is our desire to live in Harmony with all people.
*Sigh* Now you obviously missed all this and I quote again:
Now the question is since they do not speak either of the main languages and can't hold jobs why are they here for? Why are the Saudis and the few Wealthy palestinians paying not just for the building of mosques but for the housing, food etc. of muslims brought from the aforementioned places?
Do you honestly think that if they were actually working and integrating into our society I would even be asking this? But they are not so please be so kind as to not ignore the issue at hand as you did before. And do not give me excuses of this people looking for jobs and oportunities because a) they do not speak either English or Spanish b) As a result they can't hold any jobs on the impoverished job market in the island anyway and c) Most of them are obviously being mantained by overseas funding.

So the point is. This particular muslims are not here to look for jobs nor oportunities, they are not interested at all in that or integrating into society so again I ask what is the nature of their business here then?

And that mosque does not look like a place to invite anyone to know about Islam but rather like a **** fortress in my opinion! For one instead of a main entrance on the outside as most mosques, churches or common places of worship that building obviusly has the main entrance inside an inner patio and the only access point are those heavy metal doors...

Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
muslims have a duty to spread islam as far as they can, perhaps thats what these muslims are trying to do
And how are they too acomplish that? It cannot be by invitation or what you guys call Dawa as they are not making any effort for the most part to learn any of the languges spoken here so that only leaves what? The sword?
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Sabbir_1
03-04-2007, 07:04 PM
So what if there there.. why u making a big fuss about it. they got the money and they spending it for a good cause building mosques.. for muslims to pray in...
Reply

ABWAN
03-04-2007, 07:15 PM
Hello SoyBoricua,
I think you should probably go talk to those people yourself. If you feel uncomfortable, send me a plane ticket to your island and I can volunteer to go check them out for you.
Reply

'Abd al-Baari
03-04-2007, 07:21 PM
muslims have a duty to spread islam as far as they can, perhaps thats what these muslims are trying to do
hmm i agree
Reply

aamirsaab
03-04-2007, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
So the point is. This particular muslims are not here to look for jobs nor oportunities, they are not interested at all in that or integrating into society so again I ask what is the nature of their business here then?
Why not ask them.

And that mosque does not look like a place to invite anyone to know about Islam but rather like a **** fortress in my opinion!
Yeah, if you look close enough you can see gaurds inside the turrets, with bandanas around their head.

For one instead of a main entrance on the outside as most mosques, churches or common places of worship that building obviusly has the main entrance inside an inner patio and the only access point are those heavy metal doors...
Heavy metal doors as opposed to light paper doors? Or even no door?

And how are they too acomplish that? It cannot be by invitation or what you guys call Dawa as they are not making any effort for the most part to learn any of the languges spoken here so that only leaves what? The sword?
You really are looking far too deep into it. If you really wanted an answer you would have gone upto them and asked 'excuse me, but erm, why are you here?' instead of asking on a forum who would have no idea whatsoever.
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rubiesand
03-04-2007, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
I do have to ask you guys why are you coming to my Island and my hometown for?
We (the members on this forum) are not coming to your Island or your hometown! The individuals who are present in your hometown are the ones you should address your question to. Thank you.
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Idris
03-04-2007, 07:59 PM
Were is the Christian love gone?

You should be tell them to come to your house. Show some love not hate.
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Goku
03-04-2007, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
What are your fellow muslims exactly doing in my Island?
If you are who i think you are, you're being heck of a lot politer than usual, not the usual insults on every post? I wonder why.....:-\ Maybe because this forum is a Lot more civilised. :D

Nontheless i hope you enjoy your stay here and have constructive discussions.
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-04-2007, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Why not ask them.
I'd love too but there's no phone to reach them! And the one that apparently runs the mosque is not very fond of us anyway. He treated me with a lot of suspicion when I tried to contact him using the username he himself provided on emuslim.com and the minute I suggested that it would be preferable for the to use the method we ourselves used for Viequez he blocked me...

Even their services at the mosque are at hours when most of us including myself are ussualy working so they are deliberaty avoiding as much contact with the locals as possible and as such there's no way to ask them!

Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Yeah, if you look close enough you can see gaurds inside the turrets, with bandanas around their head.
Funny I only said it looked like a fortress not that it was a den of Jihadists as you have now suggested but thx for that heads up...


Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Heavy metal doors as opposed to light paper doors? Or even no door?
No I mean regular doors to the outside such as this:
mosques guide -

Do not try to smart arse yourself out of this. That mosque does not look like most mosques that one would see all over the world and that is a fact...


Originally Posted by aamirsaab
You really are looking far too deep into it. If you really wanted an answer you would have gone upto them and asked 'excuse me, but erm, why are you here?' instead of asking on a forum who would have no idea whatsoever.
I'm asking here because they are unwilling to provide any answers and because they are your fellow muslims after all are they not?
Reply

Woodrow
03-04-2007, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
Perhaps for the same reason so many have come here to Texas. They came because of opportunity to advance and to fulfill all themselves to their highest Potential.

You may have noticed that Palestine and Jordan and not exactly conducive to people who have good business skills and the like. Does it not make more sense for them to go to areas where they can utilise their skills, earn higher income and use that to help their country men to the best of their ability.

It also makes sense for people to go to an areas where there is high tolerance for Muslims, which apparantly the people of your country shaow and I would assume your country has no laws that would prevent them from living as Muslims.

Yes, some will come for the purpose of helping our religion. However we do not advocate spreading Islam by force or obnoxious Evangelism. We believe that the best way is by example and to let people see that we truly are people of peace and it is our desire to live in Harmony with all people.
*Sigh* Now you obviously missed all this and I quote again:
Now the question is since they do not speak either of the main languages and can't hold jobs why are they here for? Why are the Saudis and the few Wealthy palestinians paying not just for the building of mosques but for the housing, food etc. of muslims brought from the aforementioned places?
Do you honestly think that if they were actually working and integrating into our society I would even be asking this? But they are not so please be so kind as to not ignore the issue at hand as you did before. And do not give me excuses of this people looking for jobs and oportunities because a) they do not speak either English or Spanish b) As a result they can't hold any jobs on the impoverished job market in the island anyway and c) Most of them are obviously being mantained by overseas funding.

So the point is. This particular muslims are not here to look for jobs nor oportunities, they are not interested at all in that or integrating into society so again I ask what is the nature of their business here then?

And that mosque does not look like a place to invite anyone to know about Islam but rather like a **** fortress in my opinion! For one instead of a main entrance on the outside as most mosques, churches or common places of worship that building obviusly has the main entrance inside an inner patio and the only access point are those heavy metal doors...


Really seems strange that you are even asking. Since That is the Picture of the Ponce Islamic Center in Peurto Rico. I assume you are either in Peurto Rico or NYC.

I could be asking you Why do so many of your fellow Peurto Ricons come here to the US and don't even speak the language and have no desire to learn English? Why does NYC have a larger PR population than San Juan and why do they insist on living in there own barrios in NYC and are very secretive and hostile if any of us "Gringos" step on the PR turf in NYC?

Answer those questions and you will understand why some mideasterners are coming to PR.

The Reason for the high security around the Mosque, is to be blunt, your fellow country men do have some hostile members that can be quite hostile towards anybody who is not PR and not Roman Catholic.

So I will say answer why so many of your country men insist on coming up here to the states and you will have answered part of your own question.



As a Texas Cowboy I have seen the bigotry my country men here in the States have shown against your relatives in PR. Now, please understand that seems to be the same bigotry you are showing. Reverse bigotry is still bigotry.
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afriend
03-04-2007, 09:04 PM
So, we're supposed to keep a track on every single Muslim brother/sister in the world. Heck I can't even keep a track on myself at times. If we all had that closeness and knowledge for the actions of every Muslim in the world, the Muslims would definitely be different to what they are today :)

:w:
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England
03-04-2007, 09:05 PM
You should move to Poland. They're 95% Roman Catholic....:D I've spoken to alot of Poles and they've said they're shocked at the amount ethnics there are and that it's rare in Poland. One of a few countries that keep their borders closed!
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afriend
03-04-2007, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by England
You should move to Poland. They're 95% Roman Catholic....:D I've spoken to alot of Poles and they've said they're shocked at the amount ethnics there are and that it's rare in Poland. One of a few countries that keep their borders closed!
Oh, no indian takeaways for them...A life without curry, they don't know what they're missing :D

I personally feel that multi-culturism should be promoted, because it brings with tollerance, a range of different ideas which will surely help us in our daily lives, like curry for instance.

:w:
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SilentObserver
03-04-2007, 09:14 PM
Originally Posted by England
You should move to Poland. They're 95% Roman Catholic....:D I've spoken to alot of Poles and they've said they're shocked at the amount ethnics there are and that it's rare in Poland. One of a few countries that keep their borders closed!
So many problems could be minimized or even solved if all countries would just close their borders. I continue to work towards this goal. Someday....
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England
03-04-2007, 09:16 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Oh, no indian takeaways for them...A life without curry, they don't know what they're missing :D

I personally feel that multi-culturism should be promoted, because it brings with tollerance, a range of different ideas which will surely help us in our daily lives, like curry for instance.

:w:
People can live without takeaways :-\ If it's there we will eat it, if not then there are alternatives...
I don't think multi-culturalism should be promoted. I believe Poland is correct in its immigration policy. Multi-culturalism doesn't work. It creates conflicts.

An example, I don't think mine and your cultures mix too well.
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Goku
03-04-2007, 09:18 PM
I think multiculturalism gives us a better understanding of other cultures in terms of where we live, it mostly works.
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England
03-04-2007, 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by Goku
I think multiculturalism gives us a better understanding of other cultures in terms of where we live, it mostly works.
It's not the case in Britain nor many other countries that have opened their doors to multiculturalism. It's lead to battles, conflicts, debates of the laws and cultures. It's lead to an increasing threat of terrorism. I believe Poland will one of the last countries to face a terrorist attack because of their immigration control.
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afriend
03-04-2007, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by England
People can live without takeaways :-\ If it's there we will eat it, if not then there are alternatives...
I don't think multi-culturalism should be promoted. I believe Poland is correct in its immigration policy. Multi-culturalism doesn't work. It creates conflicts.

An example, I don't think our cultures mix too well.
lol...that was a joke.:rollseyes

It really depends who you let in, because...There have been some really useful immigrants.

I mean, if you keep a check on the ones you let in, and make sure they're useful people who will atleast contribute to society, but on the other hand, persuading a patriot/nationalist to agree to this sort of stuff is like talking to a brick wall.
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Keltoi
03-04-2007, 09:29 PM
The problem I see with multiculturalism is that the melting pot theory has proven to be false. Instead of a melting pot we have a salad bowl, with distinct communities developing who have no interest in becoming part of the overall American culture. This will only cause problems and divisions. I agree that all immigration isn't bad, in fact I support immigration done legally and with the intention of becoming Americans, but this hasn't been happening in the past 20-30 years.
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England
03-04-2007, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
lol...that was a joke.:rollseyes

It really depends who you let in, because...There have been some really useful immigrants.

I mean, if you keep a check on the ones you let in, and make sure they're useful people who will atleast contribute to society, but on the other hand, persuading a patriot/nationalist to agree to this sort of stuff is like talking to a brick wall.
I'm not against immigration but at this moment I believe we've exceeded the amount of people we should have. I believe in immigrants that will fill in the jobs that Britons won't do, but Britons should be put 1st in line with everything. We should only have USEFUL immigrants but we should have none that are here just to seek a better life. It doesn't matter whether they face torture, face being charged etc. They should seek elsewhere. We should not bring in immigrants to create a multi-cultural society. I'm against multiculturalism.
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afriend
03-04-2007, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by England
I'm not against immigration but at this moment I believe we've exceeded the amount of people we should have. I believe in immigrants that will fill in the jobs that Britons won't do, but Britons should be put 1st in line with everything. We should only have USEFUL immigrants but we should have none that are here just to seek a better life. It doesn't matter whether they face torture, face being charged etc. They should seek elsewhere. We should not bring in immigrants to create a multi-cultural society. I'm against multiculturalism.
I agree with half of the things you said, but if you don't take them then the neighbouring country will...Who may learn to take advantage of the situation and turn it into something really productive, and then Britain will be losing out, sulking in the corner. :)
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Al-Zaara
03-04-2007, 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by England
I'm not against immigration but at this moment I believe we've exceeded the amount of people we should have. I believe in immigrants that will fill in the jobs that Britons won't do, but Britons should be put 1st in line with everything.
Oh yes, even though that Indian over there is better in doing the job, has lived in Britan for some years, studied the language so he speaks it very well and as I said, is better in that job than the Briton? The Briton should still be first in line to have the job?

We should only have USEFUL immigrants but we should have none that are here just to seek a better life.
It doesn't matter whether they face torture, face being charged etc. They should seek elsewhere.
Yet again man is proven to be a very selfish creature.

We should not bring in immigrants to create a multi-cultural society. I'm against multiculturalism.
Are you also against saving people's lives? Like for example, if they go through a horrible war?
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Woodrow
03-04-2007, 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
I'd love too but there's no phone to reach them! And the one that apparently runs the mosque is not very fond of us anyway. He treated me with a lot of suspicion when I tried to contact him using the username he himself provided on emuslim.com and the minute I suggested that it would be preferable for the to use the method we ourselves used for Viequez he blocked me...

Even their services at the mosque are at hours when most of us including myself are usualy working so they are deliberately avoiding as much contact with the locals as possible and as such there's no way to ask them!


Funny I only said it looked like a fortress not that it was a den of Jihadists as you have now suggested but thx for that heads up...



No I mean regular doors to the outside such as this:
wwwislamicboardcom -

Do not try to smart arse yourself out of this. That mosque does not look like most mosques that one would see all over the world and that is a fact...




I'm asking here because they are unwilling to provide any answers and because they are your fellow muslims after all are they not?
Even their services at the mosque are at hours when most of us including myself are ussualy working so they are deliberaty avoiding as much contact with the locals as possible and as such there's no way to ask them!

Apparantly you are not aware of our required prayers times.

For PR the times for this time of year are:

5:31AM 6:43AM 12:39PM 4:01PM 6:34PM 7:42PM


With the exception of the !2:39 Jummah prayer on Fridays, most Muslims will prayer either at work or at home. The Friday Jummah Prayer will most likely be the only time of the week that the Mosque will be open as Ponce does not have a very large Muslim Population.

As far as contacting the Imam of the Mosque, I would suspect he has a job and works to support himself. He probably is seldom at the Mosque.

Keep in Mind although the Mosque is important to us Muslims, it is not the center of our worship Allah(swt) alone is our center of worship. Our only required time for attendance at the Mosque is for Friday Jummah.

I believe the reason you will find it so barricaded is because of fear of vandalism as it would be unattended for much of the week. would you leave your home unlocked if you were only going to be in it one hour a week?
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England
03-04-2007, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
I agree with half of the things you said, but if you don't take them then the neighbouring country will...Who may learn to take advantage of the situation and turn it into something really productive, and then Britain will be losing out, sulking in the corner. :)
Take advantage of what? Multiculturalism? Multiculturalism doesn't work. It creates problems. I don't see the Polish sulking and they have a zero-tolerance on immigration and they brag about it. I'd rather be in their position than of what we are in today.
We've lost track on how many immigrants are here. The NHS being stretched. Jobs being taken by immigrants. Threat of terrorism. Complaints of the British law that have been imposed since the 18th Century etc etc.

Immigration should be used to FILL jobs not taken, not to give someone a better way of life.
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SilentObserver
03-04-2007, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Oh yes, even though that Indian over there is better in doing the job, has lived in Britan for some years, studied the language so he speaks it very well and as I said, is better in that job than the Briton? The Briton should still be first in line to have the job?
Yes, of course. Turn it around. A good paying job in India comes up for a dozen professionals, technicians, etc. Should the jobs go to Britons that apply for the jobs even if they are better, or to the indians that already live there?
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deen_2007
03-04-2007, 09:49 PM
oh god! u no what? ive met a Polish lady in my University here in London....& she looks ever so lost with 'whats going on in the world'...&....'whats true & whats not'..........but she's so innocent & lovely! ....me and few of my uni mates gave her dawah on Islam....but dnt worry England...it was because she was asking the questions.....she was intrested...& shocked to hear everything she did.....she concluded...that the media can mislead ppl....n definetly did to her in her own country!

another thing ENGLAND...have you noticed....a lot of polish ppl are entering England?
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afriend
03-04-2007, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by England
Take advantage of what? Multiculturalism? Multiculturalism doesn't work. It creates problems. I don't see the Polish sulking and they have a zero-tolerance on immigration and they brag about it. I'd rather be in their position than of what we are in today.
We've lost track on how many immigrants are here. The NHS being stretched. Jobs being taken by immigrants. Threat of terrorism. Complaints of the British law that have been imposed since the 18th Century etc etc.

Immigration should be used to FILL jobs not taken, not to give someone a better way of life.
Ah well...We're here now, and we're here to stay. Not to mention the mass loads of Bangladeshis that will be coming when the floods hit BD. Oooh yeah.....In 25 year's time I can see whole cities being renamed Dhakadon and Sylhetingham :shade:
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England
03-04-2007, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Oh yes, even though that Indian over there is better in doing the job, has lived in Britan for some years, studied the language so he speaks it very well and as I said, is better in that job than the Briton? The Briton should still be first in line to have the job?
Yes. It is our country. If someone is useless at doing the job get rid and find a better Briton to do the job. No matter what, Britons should always be put 1st. If we had this control of immigration we could afford to increase the wage which would add incentive for the people to work harder.

Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Yet again man is proven to be a very selfish creature.
Why should we suffer? Our NHS is overstretched, struggling to cope with the amount of people and putting our people in danger. Why can't the likes Africans, middle easterners etc seek somewhere closer to home than Britain? What's wrong with France?

Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Are you also against saving people's lives? Like for example, if they go through a horrible war?
As above.
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deen_2007
03-04-2007, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by England


Why should we suffer? Our NHS is overstretched, struggling to cope with the amount of people and putting our people in danger. Why can't the likes Africans, middle easterners etc seek somewhere closer to home than Britain? What's wrong with France?
.

as far as i know...france is already in this boat...as for all the ppl above uv noted....well most of them now seem to be here because....they r born & bread here.....most africans & middle easterners r not migrating here...but uv got issues of others entering the country now such as Polish as ive mentioned b4....but hey im sure every1s paying Tax...so their also contributing towards NHS....
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England
03-04-2007, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by deen_2007
oh god! u no what? ive met a Polish lady in my University here in London....& she looks ever so lost with 'whats going on in the world'...&....'whats true & whats not'..........but she's so innocent & lovely! ....me and few of my uni mates gave her dawah on Islam....but dnt worry England...it was because she was asking the questions.....she was intrested...& shocked to hear everything she did.....she concluded...that the media can mislead ppl....n definetly did to her in her own country!

another thing ENGLAND...have you noticed....a lot of polish ppl are entering England?
I have. I've noticed alot of come here in England. I have Polish friends and close with a Polish gal. They are great people. I like them, I respect them. They support England as their second team. Alot of them wear England shirts, respect our culture and are very respectful. The Polish women are beautiful.

But still, I stand with my opinions on immigration. They should not be here unless they are filling in the jobs. There are more than enough here. I like the Polish, but it goes for them too.
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England
03-04-2007, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Ah well...We're here now, and we're here to stay. Not to mention the mass loads of Bangladeshis that will be coming when the floods hit BD. Oooh yeah.....In 25 year's time I can see whole cities being renamed Dhakadon and Sylhetingham :shade:
Your intentions are so obvious that I'm not going to bother lol :rollseyes Now stop being silly, this is a serious debate here :giggling:
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Al-Zaara
03-04-2007, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by England
Yes. It is our country. If someone is useless at doing the job get rid and find a better Briton to do the job. No matter what, Britons should always be put 1st. If we had this control of immigration we could afford to increase the wage which would add incentive for the people to work harder.
So only a Briton is the solution. Doesn't that make your view racist?

Why should we suffer? Our NHS is overstretched, struggling to cope with the amount of people and putting our people in danger.
Many of those times why you are in danger, is because Britain all through history has too many times put his nose in business that isn't his, complicating problems which didn't need any more complication, taking lands and wealth, also having an enormous passion for "new lands".

Why can't the likes Africans, middle easterners etc seek somewhere closer to home than Britain? What's wrong with France?
They like snails. Kidding. See, they probably seek other countries but can't help getting attracted to your beautiful country.
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Maidah
03-04-2007, 10:00 PM
An example, I don't think mine and your cultures mix too well.[/QUOTE]

I think the point is to adapt oneself to someone elses culture and respect it, but not mix it. It's so obvious our culture wont mix cuz it's not even meant to.:rollseyes
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afriend
03-04-2007, 10:00 PM
lol...Not exactly good manners is it England?

Look at it this way, your ancestors must have been immigrants some time or another. I mean, there have been several periods in British history where there have been invaders and settlers, such as the Anglo Saxons, Celts, Normans, Romans...Your ancestors must have been among them, they can't have been here since the start of time.

And yes, I've studied your country's history very well...Just doing my part to clean the plate which I eat out of. Are you going to throw me out?
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SoyBoricua
03-04-2007, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Really seems strange that you are even asking. Since That is the Picture of the Ponce Islamic Center in Peurto Rico. I assume you are either in Peurto Rico or NYC.
It is spelled Puerto Rico and so?

Originally Posted by Woodrow
I could be asking you Why do so many of your fellow Peurto Ricons come here to the US and don't even speak the language and have no desire to learn English? Why does NYC have a larger PR population than San Juan and why do they insist on living in there own barrios in NYC and are very secretive and hostile if any of us "Gringos" step on the PR turf in NYC?
Except that most Puertorricans do hold jobs in one form or another and as for Puertorricans living in what you call Barrios is the same reason most ethnic groups clustered in neighborhoods where most of their kin lived. Racial and ethnic segregation was the order of the day for centuries up to nearly more than half of the last one. Thankfully we do not live that in the Island most ethnic where most ethnic groups including Palestinian/Jordanian muslims live in the same neighborhoods and suburbs that we do. However that's where all the similarities with the other groups in the Island stop...


Originally Posted by Woodrow
Answer those questions and you will understand why some mideasterners are coming to PR.
I already have and none of it answers their behavior here...

Originally Posted by Woodrow
The Reason for the high security around the Mosque, is to be blunt, your fellow country men do have some hostile members that can be quite hostile towards anybody who is not PR and not Roman Catholic.
Now with all due respect that has to be the biggest pile of bologney (and that's not even the appropiate word for this which I won't use out of respect) that I have ever heard!

I would like you to name one instance of violence of Puertorricans on Muslims on the Island just one!



[QUOTE=Woodrow;674746]So I will say answer why so many of your country men insist on coming up here to the states and you will have answered part of your own question.

That's easy unlike your fellow muslims overhere they go to seek better job oportunities and so on...

Originally Posted by Woodrow
As a Texas Cowboy I have seen the bigotry my country men here in the States have shown against your relatives in PR. Now, please understand that seems to be the same bigotry you are showing. Reverse bigotry is still bigotry.
Except that I'm asking a very reasonable question and do not try to play the old bigot/racist card here...


Originally Posted by Iqram
So, we're supposed to keep a track on every single Muslim brother/sister in the world. Heck I can't even keep a track on myself at times. If we all had that closeness and knowledge for the actions of every Muslim in the world, the Muslims would definitely be different to what they are today
Not at all what I'm asking is for help since they are unwilling to answer any questions themselves...

Originally Posted by England
It's not the case in Britain nor many other countries that have opened their doors to multiculturalism. It's lead to battles, conflicts, debates of the laws and cultures. It's lead to an increasing threat of terrorism. I believe Poland will one of the last countries to face a terrorist attack because of their immigration control.
Precisely one of the reasons I'm concerned and unlike all other ethnic groups that have moved to the Island including even the Chinesse this people seem hell bent on keeping themselves apart.

Goku I know you as you know me and I know that your talk of "Multiculturalism" swings only one way and that toward your religion and your religion alone. I know very well how you want and desire to impose Sharia law on your own country of U.K even with it being a country that is overwhelmingly Christian/Secular etc. I have seen what has happened in Bali, Madrid & London and have no desire to see it here. Because if God forbid it ever does and I'm sorry but I have to be blunt and tell the Honest truth and it is that where it to happen. Muslims living on the Island would be soon wishing they could walk or run on water. You have no idea how ugly things could get if your people where to slaughter mine as you have in other places of the world. We are very friendly and amiable but the thing is and I hope you all understand is that we do not bow down to anyone.

We did not bow down to the U.S navy in Viequez and we would most certainly not bow down, lay over and play dead if something as awful as those incidents where to ever take place here...

I'm trying to save lives here... Mostly those of your own fellow muslims because in the end they would be the ones truly getting the short end of the stick...

So please if anyone can contact the mosque leader and ask him about all this I'd appreciate it!
Reply

afriend
03-04-2007, 10:06 PM
Ok, buddy...

Let me ask you a question. What are your fellow Christians doing in my beloved Dubai? Opening pubs, establishing hotels and stuff...And not bothering to learn the arabic language? huh?
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Sami Zaatari
03-04-2007, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by England
I have. I've noticed alot of come here in England. I have Polish friends and close with a Polish gal. They are great people. I like them, I respect them. They support England as their second team. Alot of them wear England shirts, respect our culture and are very respectful. The Polish women are beautiful.

But still, I stand with my opinions on immigration. They should not be here unless they are filling in the jobs. There are more than enough here. I like the Polish, but it goes for them too.
lollllllllll i had to laugh when i saw this, this is just too funny and typical of you western men, again its BACK TO THE LOOKS, if middle eastern women in uk were going around naked for u and looking pretty im sure you wouldnt mind them in your country then now would you? now you cant say im just making things up or else why IN THE WORLD WOULD BRING UP A LADIES LOOK? sheeshhhhhhh louise cant you western non muslim men think of anything other than a ladies look and so on or is that all you think about? i sure as heck would never leave my wife (future wife when i get one) or daughter (if i get one) around you men, THATS FOR SURE.
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Sami Zaatari
03-04-2007, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by England
I have. I've noticed alot of come here in England. I have Polish friends and close with a Polish gal. They are great people. I like them, I respect them. They support England as their second team. Alot of them wear England shirts, respect our culture and are very respectful. The Polish women are beautiful.

But still, I stand with my opinions on immigration. They should not be here unless they are filling in the jobs. There are more than enough here. I like the Polish, but it goes for them too.
ok ok but other issues, so for you to like immigrants, they must be pretty, they must support the english national team and wear the jersey. hmmmmmm this is too funny i must say, but the english soccer team literally stink and are no good, they dont know how to play football as their recent games have shown, so how could people support them!!!!!!! :Evil:
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England
03-04-2007, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
So only a Briton is the solution. Doesn't that make your view racist?
Call it what you want. Many people have this view of immigration. Britons are nationals. It is their country. A country their grandfather died for. Britons should be priority for everything. Jobs, healthcare, dentistry, homes, etc. Call this racist if you like but that would be very typical. Britons have this view. Perhaps Britain is a racist country afterall? :rollseyes
Different with the case of the likes of Pakistan though isn't it.... :)

Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Many of those times why you are in danger, is because Britain all through in history has too many times put his nose in business that isn't his, complicating problems which didn't need any more complication, taking lands and wealth, also having an enormous passion for "new lands".

I thought we were talking about the NHS here? :rollseyes But meh...
The world benefited from the British empire...

Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
They like snails. Kidding. See, they probably seek other countries but can't help getting attracted to your beautiful country.
Why not? :D After all, money for all. Come and claim your benefits, get treated better than British nationals. Get more rights etc etc :)
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England
03-04-2007, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari
ok ok but other issues, so for you to like immigrants, they must be pretty, they must support the english national team and wear the jersey. hmmmmmm this is too funny i must say, but the english soccer team literally stink and are no good, they dont know how to play football as their recent games have shown, so how could people support them!!!!!!! :Evil:
:rollseyes For me to like immigrants their culture must mix with ours. They must respect the country that hosts them and that evidently from the people I've met I can say the Polish have. I have met a couple of bad ones but the majority are great. Their culture is the same as ours. They don't complain about British laws, ask for rights etc.

By the way, yeh I do go on about womens' looks. Remember, our culture is different. Polish women are gorgeous.
Reply

Maidah
03-04-2007, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Ok, buddy...

Let me ask you a question. What are your fellow Christians doing in my beloved Dubai? Opening pubs, establishing hotels and stuff...And not bothering to learn the arabic language? huh?

Exactly what i was thinking:thumbs_up


and England, correct me if i'm wrong, but the number of brittons that have moved abraod is greater than the number of ppl of different ethinc groups in this country. You ask them why they're there and you'll get ur answer to what our fellow muslims are doing out there. When have u heard us whining!?:X

And beside look back to history, the reason there are so many ethnic groups here is because you invited us here. Back in days when labour was needed, through the different time periods of depression, most labour from the asian countries was brought here. These waves have been present through time and ppl have been coming in and out.
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deen_2007
03-04-2007, 10:25 PM
hey wouldnt the King have to be kicked out if the rest were? i mean his German after all!...now that would be funny.....









bottom line: Like it or NOT......none of us r going anywhere.......so lets get used to every1 ENGLAND.................
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England
03-04-2007, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Maidah
and England, correct me if i'm wrong, but the number of brittons that have moved abraod is greater than the number of ppl of different ethinc groups in this country. You ask them why they're there and you'll get ur answer to what our fellow muslims are doing out there. When have u heard us whining!?:X
I can answer that easily. They are moving out of the country because they are looked down on in their own country. Their country is a mess. Have you noticed that there is a huge surge in Britons moving abroad since Britain opened the floodgates to Britain?
Reply

Sami Zaatari
03-04-2007, 10:32 PM
yes full of english ppl in dubai, and abu dhabi etc, and in egypt and turkey too, perhaps you can tell them to all leave mr england plz? :)
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England
03-04-2007, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari
yes full of english ppl in dubai, and abu dhabi etc, and in egypt and turkey too, perhaps you can tell them to all leave mr england plz? :)
I'd be happy to welcome them all back... we'll do that after the immigrants have left yeah? :)
Reply

Maidah
03-04-2007, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by England
I can answer that easily. They are moving out of the country because they are looked down on in their own country. Their country is a mess. Have you noticed that there is a huge surge in Britons moving abroad since Britain opened the floodgates to Britain?
I'm sorry i have to disagree with you. How can u b so sure they're looked down on, is it cuz u lot do it urself and thats why u're so confident?:rollseyes
Reply

Sami Zaatari
03-04-2007, 10:36 PM
i find english ppl to be the most double standard filled people i have ever seen, yes more than ANY OTHERS.

they often complain about muslim immigrants to their country, yet at the same time english people are all over our muslim countries! such as : egypt,tunis, morroco, uae, kuwait, bahrain, qatar, saudia arabia, jordan, lebanon, indonesia, turkey. why is that? if you dont like us or want us in your country, then you should stop comming to ours, but ohhhh i see you still have that english mentality of your better than everyone right? i think you do, you english think you deserve everything but you dont want to give for others, and you nag and complain when you do, you wanna go live in our countries and enjoy yourselves, but you dont want some muslims to come to your countries. if we muslims said no pork, no discos, and no alcohol in our countries you guys would go mad saying heyyyyyy man freedommmmmmmmm etc, but in your own countries you say everyone should respect your way of life and should abandon theirs and if they dont they can take the exit, funny how if we did the same you would probaly invade that country like you did iraq and afghanistan.
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Sami Zaatari
03-04-2007, 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by England
I'd be happy to welcome them all back... we'll do that after the immigrants have left yeah? :)
there were english people in our countries FAR BEFORE muslims started migrating to yours, did you forget colonialism? you were in egypt, sudan, algeria, uae saudia and all the gulf countries even before any such thing as muslim migration to your country began. so you see your just filled with double standards, its you english ppl who always go to other countries most of the time as unwanted guests.
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Sami Zaatari
03-04-2007, 10:40 PM
and just like at what other countries have to say, they say that english ppl are the worst foreigners they have, saying the english are rude, loud, and always getting drunk and causing fights, which is true, just look at the world cups and european cups, which set of nationals are the ones who always seem to cause the trouble? and you go it, its the english. :)
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Maidah
03-04-2007, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by England
I'd be happy to welcome them all back... we'll do that after the immigrants have left yeah? :)
Speak for urself m8

Hell no they're gonna litsen to you. Be realistic m8 what they have there, coming back they wont even be able to make half as much. I feel sorri to see how u can think u can speak for everyone. I bet u they dont't even give a crap to what any1 in britain thinks of them.
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deen_2007
03-04-2007, 10:44 PM
anyway....everyone knows its the fact that Britain is a multicultural place thats its so lovely here...(well kind-ov)..........if we all left...ur counntry...nope sorry it my country too....would be dry! ....... its so colourful because of all the beuty we have brought with us.........ill show u what i mean....hold on!

London china town

chinatown london -

Brick lane festival : look how everyones enjoting it..
236 3626 index 1 -

chinese festivals

f 05 -

festivals

london   nottinghill carnival 1  -
.................................................. ..................................................

and then comes food!

indian dishes:

189803578 82c37ded72 m 1 -

26 1264a12992 p -

Indian2520special2520rice -

indian food naan -

chinese dishes:

01 -

2220118 -

carrabean food:

food -

fruit -



otherwise all u would have for breakfast...lunch & diner would be:

chips2 -

item1 -

 38278798 cod chips pa300 1 -
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England
03-04-2007, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari
i find english ppl to be the most double standard filled people i have ever seen, yes more than ANY OTHERS.

they often complain about muslim immigrants to their country, yet at the same time english people are all over our muslim countries! such as : egypt,tunis, morroco, uae, kuwait, bahrain, qatar, saudia arabia, jordan, lebanon, indonesia, turkey. why is that? if you dont like us or want us in your country, then you should stop comming to ours, but ohhhh i see you still have that english mentality of your better than everyone right? i think you do, you english think you deserve everything but you dont want to give for others, and you nag and complain when you do, you wanna go live in our countries and enjoy yourselves, but you dont want some muslims to come to your countries. if we muslims said no pork, no discos, and no alcohol in our countries you guys would go mad saying heyyyyyy man freedommmmmmmmm etc, but in your own countries you say everyone should respect your way of life and should abandon theirs and if they dont they can take the exit, funny how if we did the same you would probaly invade that country like you did iraq and afghanistan.
You're speaking too much. Are there English people sponging off the muslim state? Are there any English people asking for changes in law?(ooo that would lead them to execution:eek:) Are there English Christians compaining about being limited to practicing their religion. In some Islamic countries the bible is banned.
Do you believe multiculturalism is working in Britain, US etc? If you say yes, please excuse me whilst I laugh my arse off.
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England
03-04-2007, 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by deen_2007
anyway....everyone knows its the fact that Britain is a multicultural place thats its so lovely here...(well kind-ov)..........if we all left...ur counntry...nope sorry it my country too....would be dry! ....... its so colourful because of all the beuty we have brought with us.........ill show u what i mean....hold on!

London china town

wwwislamicboardcom -

Brick lane festival : look how everyones enjoting it..
236 3626 index 1 -

chinese festivals

wwwislamicboardcom -

festivals

wwwislamicboardcom -
.................................................. ..................................................

and then comes food!

indian dishes:

189803578 82c37ded72 m 1 -

wwwislamicboardcom -

wwwislamicboardcom -

wwwislamicboardcom -

chinese dishes:

wwwislamicboardcom -

wwwislamicboardcom -

carrabean food:

wwwislamicboardcom -

wwwislamicboardcom -



otherwise all u would have for breakfast...lunch & diner would be:

wwwislamicboardcom -

wwwislamicboardcom -

 38278798 cod chips pa300 1 -
I've already replied to the subject of food earlier in this thread. We don't NEED Indian, Chinese food. There are alternatives. Do you know how often I eat a takeaway? About 5 times a year, sometimes less. It's nothing.

Besides I don't eat chips for breakfast or dinner. For breakfast my favourite is beans on toast...:eek: Isn't that an english breakfast?!
I've noticed you've added fruit? Have I said I'm against imports? :rollseyes I'm against immigration not importation of food, technology, intelligence etc.
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deen_2007
03-04-2007, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by England
I've already replied to the subject of food earlier in this thread. We don't NEED Indian, Chinese food. There are alternatives. Do you know how often I eat a takeaway? About 5 times a year, sometimes less. It's nothing.

Besides I don't eat chips for breakfast or dinner. For breakfast my favourite is beans on toast...:eek: Isn't that an english breakfast?!
oh yeah......english breakfast!!

98735093 a3f4f6d7ab o 1 -

how lovely!

btw...without the mass imigration post world war ii.....this countries ecomomy would have been ruined!!! (due to shortage of men!!!!)
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deen_2007
03-04-2007, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by England
I've noticed you've added fruit? Have I said I'm against imports? :rollseyes I'm against immigration not importation of food, technology, intelligence etc.
oh england...did u not read my paragraph b4 the pictures???????? cos the whole point i added these pictures is to show how colourfull this country has become after everything has come with these ppl....i didnt think ur againts import.........i no u like ur fruits:D
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England
03-04-2007, 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by deen_2007
oh england...did u not read my paragraph b4 the pictures???????? cos the whole point i added these pictures is to show how colourfull this country has become after everything has come with these ppl....i didnt think ur againts import.........i no u like ur fruits:D
It doesn't matter about colour. It's the damaging effects of the country, it's the danger to society it causes. The government are foiling plots after plots after plots of terrorism. Jobs are being taken. Tax is increasing, houses are being taken leaving it difficult for Britons.
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aamirsaab
03-04-2007, 11:30 PM
:sl:

The government are foiling plots after plots after plots of terrorism.
That is the governments fault, not immigrants.

Jobs are being taken.
Oh, I'm sorry, do you want to clean the lavitories of mcdonalds/burger king for a living?

Tax is increasing,
Nothing to do with immigragtion. Besides, since when has tax ever stopped increasing?

houses are being taken leaving it difficult for Britons.
lol, you obviously have a lot to learn about asians - we can fit our family tree in one house mate.

In any case, immigrants (or shall we say, non-britons) have lead to an increase in business, so in effect the UK's (and as a side effect, the west's) economy has sky rocketed as a result since more customers equals more mulah. And believe me, businesses love customers.

To the thread starter, muslims do not have a psychic link with one another - we haven;t quite reached that level of telepathy just yet. In simpler terms, I honestly do not know why you are asking us on this forum to explain the actions of a certain group of muslims, who you yourself have more daily contact with (even if it is limited)
Reply

deen_2007
03-04-2007, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by England
It doesn't matter about colour. It's the damaging effects of the country, it's the danger to society it causes. The government are foiling plots after plots after plots of terrorism. Jobs are being taken. Tax is increasing, houses are being taken leaving it difficult for Britons.

i no...i understand you...if only all thses youths would grow up & stop creating lots & lots of crimes...including robbery, murder, vandelism & racism..(etc).....

regarding the Metropolitan Police supposely finding *terror plots*...i mean ENGLAND...im sure you remember the shameful apologies the Metro polices had to make to the public for causing such a big havoc about terrorism in Forest Gate about 6 months ago....they were all wrong about it...just like many more havn't been proved to be correct too........the government is too paranoid i think

Tax going up? & what has that got to do with non-brits? :rollseyes

jobs r being taken....? r u telling me there are no britons sitting at home on benefits..while the jobs r out there? i mean why dnt they go & grab the jobs then? :blind:

houses.....well if they r british.......then these houses belong to them as much as it does to you...they r working...paying tax....doing everything the law is asking them too.....yes there are a few out of shape ones...but Britons arn't all perfect either!

to be honest this country is not what you think it is anymore.......and never will be :D

btw...without the mass imigration post world war ii.....this countries ecomomy would have been ruined!!! (due to shortage of men!!!!)
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-04-2007, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Ok, buddy...

Let me ask you a question. What are your fellow Christians doing in my beloved Dubai? Opening pubs, establishing hotels and stuff...And not bothering to learn the arabic language? huh?
You are kidding right?:rollseyes

First of all for starters no true Christian would be opening up Pubs as most of us Evangelical Christians anyhow do not drink nor smoke in the first place and you should know that everything that glitters is not necesarily gold...

Second of all it is the Dubai government that has been hiring westerners and Asians to build their hotels for them. Probably because otherwise all Dubai would have for hotels would be mudhuts or caves as it does not seem to have anyone capable of building such architecture... And unlike the muslims that have moved here the westerners in your beloved Dubai are working and not only that working to improve your country's infrastructure...


To England and the rest:

It seems that the original subject for this thread has been hijacked in favor of discussing UK's inmigration policies and whatnot when that was never the main subject. Please refrain yourselves from using this thread for such purposes as I'm sure there's plenty of other threads around on just that subject in one form or another...

In regards to the praying times that your fellow muslims have in the local mosque are this:
11:30 a.m.-1:30p.m on fridays! As I said is a time in which most locals and other non muslim inmigrants are working...
Reply

Goku
03-04-2007, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
You are kidding right?:rollseyes

First of all for starters no true Christian would be opening up Pubs as most of us Evangelical Christians anyhow do not drink nor smoke in the first place and you should know that everything that glitters is not necesarily gold...

Second of all it is the Dubai government that has been hiring westerners and Asians to build their hotels for them. Probably because otherwise all Dubai would have for hotels would be mudhuts or caves as it does not seem to have anyone capable of building such architecture... And unlike the muslims that have moved here the westerners in your beloved Dubai are working and not only that working to improve your country's infrastructure...


To England and the rest:

It seems that the original subject for this thread has been hijacked in favor of discussing UK's inmigration policies and whatnot when that was never the main subject. Please refrain yourselves from using this thread for such purposes as I'm sure there's plenty of other threads around on just that subject in one form or another...

In regards to the praying times that your fellow muslims have in the local mosque are this:
11:30 a.m.-1:30p.m on fridays! As I said is a time in which most locals and other non muslim inmigrants are working...
SoyBoricua; Dubai's Muslims created those jobs in the first place. If you dont have work you dont have jobs, do you. Plus, Dubai didnt force any Westerners to work there, they came themselves. The vast majority of Dubai's development was done by Muslims, non-Muslims were hired as well, to work. Other Muslim countries like Malaysia, UAE, Pakistan etc which have strongly developed their countries was also done by hard working Muslims. You're thinking along narrow lines.

Muslims who come to the West work hard for a living, they put money back into the ecomomy via their living expenses and spending, contributing to the ecomony through taxes as well, creating a multiplier effect, where other people benefit from their spending, e.g through creation of jobs due to an increased demand, and taxes.

PS: The Prayer time you listed is Friday prayers, which are very important.
Reply

جوري
03-04-2007, 11:47 PM
Without reading all the posts here I can say one thing... If some of these imperialist countries don't like the immigrants flooding their gates, they should have given some thought to colonizing half the world. Because that is exactly what imperialism breeds... the so-called open door policies! Most cases the immigrants I have encountered are much more successful than the actual so-called citizens. When given an opportunity they went all the way.... this is especially true in the states! Unless you are an actual native American, then you are a mutt. And those immigrants who weren't so successful and just wanted a better life than say they had in Mexico have taken jobs most Americans would refuse to do. How many Americans here would like to plow the fields on some farm for 12 hours straight for $3.00 an hr. with no benefits and live 8 to a room?
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ABWAN
03-04-2007, 11:48 PM
Soy, sorry to say this..but I find all your excuses to be utterly naive. you should come up with something thats a little sophisticated!

I don't know which island you are referring to here, and I don't think you would want to reveal that. But c'mon man, instead of wasting all your time online on a weekend, all you had to do was just go there and talk to them. Don't tell me that language is a barrier! It will be a barrier only if you assume so. Language was never a barrier when africa was colonised by west and later used by christian missionaries to spread christianity. I find it funny that you, being an evangelical christian, out of everything, claim language and time to be a barrier!!!
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Woodrow
03-05-2007, 12:08 AM
In regards to the praying times that your fellow muslims have in the local mosque are this:
11:30 a.m.-1:30p.m on fridays! As I said is a time in which most locals and other non muslim inmigrants are working...
That is the time for Jummah in Puerto Rico. We do not pick and select our prayer times. Our prayer times were established over 1400 years ago and they are at the same time in every location. The Actual prayer time for Jummah in PR today is 12:34 PM The reason for the Mosque to be open from 11:30 t0 1:30 would be for the people to get ther in time to do wudu before the Jummah and then give time after Jummah for a few minutes of socializing before returning to work or whatever.

It is not an attempt to keep non-Muslims out. Also by having it set at that time it can be established for year round and it will assure that every body will be there for the exact time of prayer, which will vary from day to day as the days get longer and shorter.

Now you can say what you want. But I have personally experienced reverse bigotry when I was growing up as a kid in the Hartford area. Believe me you did not want to be a white kid and wander into the PR section of Hartford. I will not hold that against all PR's, and I will not go into Details. But, I assure you PR prejudice against white folks is very much alive and well. But in all fairness, I will say that many white folks were hostile towards Puerto Ricans.
I will say that to a very strong degree "West Side Story" was very Realistic.

I can honestly say I have never been met with any hostility or prejudice by any Muslims in my entire life. Even when I looked like a snow flake wandering around North Africa. Long before I reverted to Islam I have always found Muslims to be honest and trust worthy no matter what country I was in.
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-05-2007, 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by Goku
SoyBoricua; Dubai's Muslims created those jobs in the first place. If you dont have work you dont have jobs, do you. Plus, Dubai didnt force any Westerners to work there, they came themselves. The vast majority of Dubai's development was done by Muslims, non-Muslims were hired as well, to work. Other Muslim countries like Malaysia, UAE, Pakistan etc which have strongly developed their countries was also done by hard working Muslims. You're thinking along narrow lines.
That's a load of bologney. The enginers and architects that have built most of Dubai's modern architecture are in fact westerners... The muslims that do work on the contruction do the heavy lifting, operate cranes but did not do any the planing for most of what you see around that country today...

Originally Posted by Goku
Muslims who come to the West work hard for a living, they put money back into the ecomomy via their living expenses and spending, contributing to the ecomony through taxes as well, creating a multiplier effect, where other people benefit from their spending, e.g through creation of jobs due to an increased demand, and taxes.
Dude you must be living in another dimension because I know for a fact that just in the U.K most muslims live by leeching off wellfare... Are there some that do work for a living? Sure there are but are few by comparison. And where I live most do not work hard for a living at all. They are instead mantained by some foreign overseas interest which is probably the same who built their mosque just as they have built most mosques around the world nowadays Saudi Arabia...



Originally Posted by Goku
PS: The Prayer time you listed is Friday prayers, which are very important.
I know what they are but in despite of it all it all looks like is intended to avoid the locals and other working inmigrant groups at all costs especially when in combination to the other facts I've brought to bear on this thread and you and just about all your fellow muslims here consistenly ignore...
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جوري
03-05-2007, 01:05 AM
Really who are these architects that have so willingly built these mosques?

If you see people on well fare it must be because you are living on well fare yourself or else work for the well fare agency?... how else can you know some little factoid as such?

your posts are another barrage of sagacious-sounding comments, written authoritatively enough and passed out as true. When in fact they aren't.


here is a little report from the U.S govt..

The report said Middle Eastern immigrants were highly educated, with 49 percent holding at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28 percent of natives.

Median earnings for Middle Eastern men were $39,000 a year compared to $38,000 for native workers.

they tend to be better-educated than native U.S. residents — about half hold bachelor's degrees, compared to 28 percent of natives. They also perform as well economically as natives — 30- and 40-year-old Middle Eastern males with a college education have the same median income as natives, and Middle East immigrants are more likely be self-employed.



and here yet another report!

Middle Eastern Immigrants in U.S. Educated, Prosperous, Study Says
Gannett News Service, August 15, 2002

(Also ran in Arizona Republic - 8/15)

WASHINGTON — Middle Eastern immigrants in the United States are well educated, earn more money than most Americans and are predominantly Muslim, according to a report released Wednesday.

They also are among the nation's fastest-growing immigrant groups, according to the report issued by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a think tank that supports reducing the number of immigrants to the United States.

The report says the number of Middle Eastern immigrants increased from fewer than 200,000 in 1970 to almost 1.5 million in 2000. The overall number of foreign-born residents in the United States tripled to 31 million over the same period.

The report offers a rare portrait of an immigrant group that has received intense scrutiny and negative publicity since the Sept. 11 attacks.
Project MAPS, a survey of "Muslims in the American Public Square" conducted in 2001-2002 by researchers at Georgetown University, found that 86 percent of all Muslim professionals were concentrated in three careers: engineering, computer science, and medicine. Law, law enforcement, and politics accounted for a minuscule 0.6 percent. American Muslims, some demographers say, have also been voting well below their numbers in the population -- registering to vote at only half the national rate, according to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey [PDF], a project of the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. "If they ever did play to their weight" in the electoral arena and in Washington, Muslims "would be a much more considerable force in public policy-making," says Steve Clemons, a Democrat who directs the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation in Washington.



I have no reason to believe that England Muslims are any different than those in the united states!

So how about you write something a little bit worth while?...
actually better yet.. state what it is you really want from this post... what are you really after?
Reply

Goku
03-05-2007, 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
That's a load of bologney. The enginers and architects that have built most of Dubai's modern architecture are in fact westerners... The muslims that do work on the contruction do the heavy lifting, operate cranes but did not do any the planing for most of what you see around that country today...
Do you even understand what you're saying? Westerners didnt wake up one day and say "Hey, lets go to Dubai and develop it, spending our own money."

Dubai Muslims fortified what was desert and worked hard to develop it. The Western people saw job opportunities in Dubai, an opportunity to make money and live in high standard, hence the immigration. Muslims created the jobs that non-Muslims applied to take. Of course many Muslims also took those jobs.

This is an interesting article highlighting even further development projects in an already highly developed and technological city of Dubai:

Dubai construction boom powers ahead
Dubai has always been a building site, but there are more large projects under construction now than ever before. This is a city in transition to a bigger future.

The biggest trade show in Dubai this year will not be the huge Gitex computer exhibition, but the Index furniture and interior design show that opens this Wednesday.

For construction, and not IT, is the boom industry in the Middle East today. Index will occupy all eight halls of the, appropriately enough, just refurbished Dubai International Exhibition Centre, as well as two temporary halls and the Al Multaqa Ballroom.

'Furniture and interior products imported into the Gulf rose by six per cent last year and 10% in 2000,' said organizer Joe Berger of dmg Index Exhibtions. 'Within the past 10 years this exhibition has grown six fold.'

There are two factors explaining the current construction boom: high oil prices and demographics.

The increase in oil revenues in the GCC states, up from $61 billion in 1998 to a current level of $150 billion per annum explains where the money is coming from. From the demand side, one of the world's fastest growing and youngest populations is pushing construction forward.

At the present time, the centre of the construction boom is undoubtedly Dubai. In the hotel sector alone there are plans to build 150 more hotels over the next five to seven years, expanding the number of hotel rooms from 20,000 in 1990 to 55,000.

Other new projects underway in Dubai are the $2 billion Dubai International Financial Centre, a huge office complex rumored to include a major skyscraper; the $2.5 billion expansion of the Dubai International Airport; the $3 billion Palm Island project; $1.6 billion Dubai Marina leisure and residential development; $1.6 billion Festival City mixed-use development; further phases of the Dubai Internet City and Media City; and the new Convention Centre at the Dubai World Trade Centre.

In addition, Emaar Properties is developing the Emirates Hills/Emirates Lakes into a massive residential new town, and Majid Al Futtaim has a massive shopping mall and indoor ski resort under construction on a nearby site.

Around the Gulf region shopping malls are under construction all over the place. But for now the focus of building activity is Dubai, and all these new offices, homes and hotels will need furniture and interior design. No wonder Index will outshine Gitex this year in Dubai.
http://www.ameinfo.com/16488.html

And you seem to have forgotten Malaysia, a developed Muslim country, along with many ares of Pakistan. Pakistan was cited by Harvard researches as the model of economic growth in the 1960s, and in the financial year 2005, Pakistan's growth was the second highest among in the world, first being China. Pakistani Muslims are working hard to develop their country. One example is a project in the city of Lahore, Defense area phase 8, where construction is going to develop that area in highly technical housing, infastructure, sanitation, technologically advanced theme parks, very high standard of living, etc. All this is going throughout Pakistan and Insha'Allah Pakistan will be fully developed soon.

Theres other examples of similar development in Muslim countries, particularly in UAE and Indonesia. You need to drop the hate for Muslims and think logically.


Dude you must be living in another dimension because I know for a fact that just in the U.K most muslims live by leeching off wellfare... Are there some that do work for a living? Sure there are but are few by comparison. And where I live most do not work hard for a living at all. They are instead mantained by some foreign overseas interest which is probably the same who built their mosque just as they have built most mosques around the world nowadays Saudi Arabia...
Dude, I live in UK, you live in Purto Rico, you know wot for a fact? Do you know, UK and other Western countries offer scholarship schemes for international countries, where the top students in a foreign country get a scholarship to work and study in UK, EU or US. They skills of these top students are utilised in economic development, and many of those top students are Muslims. As for other foreign students, Muslim and non-Muslim, to study in UK they have to pay very big fees, which they work to earn money to pay, plus they need to pay for living expenses such as accommodation, bills, food etc. The University fees alone are between £8,000-£24,000 a year, a lot of money, convert them to your currency to see how much they are. And thats the fees alone, excluding any living expenses. Muslims work very hard to pay them and study as well. Plus more people=more potential customers for businesses, Muslims pay for services which go towards economic development and add to a wider multiplier effect, that is one reason why Western countries have immigration, which means more man power, work power, and consumer spending, plus attracting the top students from around the world.

As for your area, I dont know why they came, but ever thought that they need to pay for living expenses and food, paying local businesses for their services= more cash flow.

My advise to you is, approach them in a polite manner, dont make it seem like they're not welcome. Imagine if you move to a predominately white area and some local whites approach you with angry forwns and demand to know why you're here, what you're doing here.....not very pleasent. Ask them in a polite and fitting manner as to their motivations, although i dont see any hidden agenda for their presense.


I know what they are but in despite of it all it all looks like is intended to avoid the locals and other working inmigrant groups at all costs especially when in combination to the other facts I've brought to bear on this thread and you and just about all your fellow muslims here consistenly ignore...
We're not ignoring you, read my last paragraph and read Woodrow's post. They are not trying to avoid locals, they need time for people to get into the Mosque for Friday prayer. Prayers are held in a congregation, and Friday prayers usually attract a lot of people, because of the importance put i congregation prayer/praying in a group, in unity.
Reply

ABWAN
03-05-2007, 01:28 AM
Soy,
Based on your comment about how evangelical christians dont drink and smoke, I had a good opinion about you guys... but just a 5 min google search showed me that
- you had posted this same message in another forum
- the picture you have in your initial message is that of PONCE MOSQUE and here is their contact info:-
ISLAMIC CENTER AT PONCE
#29 Luna St., Ponce,
Ponce, Puerto Rico 00731, Puerto Rico
Tel.: 787-842-9562
- That Palestenians have settled in Puerto Rico since 1958. That would only mean you didnt say the truth when you said they cant speak english or spanish. I dont think it would be possible for people to stay in a country for 50 years and still not learn the native language
- if you need further information about this mosque, you could always send an email to this id- falu3pr@hotmail.com, instead of spamming all the forums asking the same question
- and this is from wikipedia - "There is a relatively small but diverse Jewish community in and around San Juan with a Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox house of prayer. There is also a Muslim community with worship places in different parts of the island. The three main mosques are located in Rio Piedras, Ponce, and Vega Alta."

And finally I would suggest you to go check this website and ask the puerto rican office any/all the questions you have instead of wasting your time online, trying to find answers from people of other countries who hardly know anything about puerto rico
http://www.al-amana.org/contactus.php
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-05-2007, 01:52 AM
Originally Posted by ABWAN
Soy,
Based on your comment about how evangelical christians dont drink and smoke, I had a good opinion about you guys... but just a 5 min google search showed me that
- you had posted this same message in another forum
- the picture you have in your initial message is that of PONCE MOSQUE and here is their contact info:-
ISLAMIC CENTER AT PONCE
#29 Luna St., Ponce,
Ponce, Puerto Rico 00731, Puerto Rico
Tel.: 787-842-9562
- That Palestenians have settled in Puerto Rico since 1958. That would only mean you didnt say the truth when you said they cant speak english or spanish. I dont think it would be possible for people to stay in a country for 50 years and still not learn the native language
- if you need further information about this mosque, you could always send an email to this id- falu3pr@hotmail.com, instead of spamming all the forums asking the same question
- and this is from wikipedia - "There is a relatively small but diverse Jewish community in and around San Juan with a Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox house of prayer. There is also a Muslim community with worship places in different parts of the island. The three main mosques are located in Rio Piedras, Ponce, and Vega Alta."

And finally I would suggest you to go check this website and ask the puerto rican office any/all the questions you have instead of wasting your time online, trying to find answers from people of other countries who hardly know anything about puerto rico
http://www.al-amana.org/contactus.php
I said most do not speak either English or Spanish not all there's a difference and a huge one at that. As for those that came back in '58 they settled in Rio Piedras those are now fully integrated citizens and they are not the ones I'm concerned with, but the latest batch of Palestinian/Jordanian inmigrants are operating very differently from those that came that long ago...

In regards to the ID I doubt he will reply as he was not very friendly from the onset and subsequently blocked me when I mentioned the peaceful Vieques protests and how it culminated in Viequez no lonnger being used as a target range for the U.S navy and as such they could also apply it to ther native Palestine...
Reply

ABWAN
03-05-2007, 02:04 AM
So you think a puerto rican muslim who had given his id to be contacted wouldnt reply to you, and you expect people from other countries who know nothing about puerto rico to give you an answer?

If you are so much concerned (which is valid if those people are up to something), why dont you just go talk to the police in your area? perhaps they might be more useful than anyone in this forum.
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-05-2007, 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by ABWAN
So you think a puerto rican muslim who had given his id to be contacted wouldnt reply to you, and you expect people from other countries who know nothing about puerto rico to give you an answer?

If you are so much concerned (which is valid if those people are up to something), why dont you just go talk to the police in your area? perhaps they might be more useful than anyone in this forum.
First of all the guy is not Puertorrican he is a Palestinian and he told me so himself...

I cannot go to the police just based on a suspicion! Just suspicious movements in and out and even the fact that a whole lot of them live being mantained by overseas funding would not be considered enough evidence to warrant an investigation on them and I was hoping that you guys could help me instead of having to resort reporting what me and quite a few others have observed to Homeland security.
And there's more: According to those that work nearby: The local mosque has remained close for at least 2 weeks, maybe more!
Reply

Goku
03-05-2007, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
First of all the guy is not Puertorrican he is a Palestinian and he told me so himself...

I cannot go to the police just based on a suspicion! Just suspicious movements in and out and even the fact that a whole lot of them live being mantained by overseas funding would not be considered enough evidence to warrant an investigation on them and I was hoping that you guys could help me instead of having to resort reporting what me and quite a few others have observed to Homeland security.
And there's more: According to those that work nearby: The local mosque has remained close for at least 2 weeks, maybe more!
OK mate, can you clarify one thing about this Mosque, was it built recently? Or bought and converted? Are your suspicions aroused simply because they are Muslim or due to some other factor?
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-05-2007, 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by Goku
OK mate, can you clarify one thing about this Mosque, was it built recently? Or bought and converted? Are your suspicions aroused simply because they are Muslim or due to some other factor?
Well It was probably built no less than 4 to 5 years ago tops so it is pretty recent. And no my suspicions are not based on that "Oh they are muslims" but plenty of other facts i've already given plenty of times accros this thread and on top of that when one considers what has happened all over the world with people blowing themselves up and beheading left and right in the name of your religion yes I do have more than a legitimate concern as to what their intentions might be...

The facts are:
a) Not only we have this mosque and just about all other mosques in the Island having being built with Saudi money but it seems they are also supprting the muslims they are bringing from overseas to fill those mosques financially as well paying for their housing, clothing and food!

b) The structure itself looks more like a fortress than a house of prayer...

c) Most of the Palestinians/Jordanians that currently go to the local mosque and the others in the Island do not speak either English nor Spanish I know because just after 9/11 I called the phone number listed for it (now that number is no longer in service incidentally) and the one that first answered spoke neither of the Island's main languages... The same I have noticed of those that ocassionally visit the gas station where I work at...
Reply

ABWAN
03-05-2007, 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
First of all the guy is not Puertorrican he is a Palestinian and he told me so himself...

I cannot go to the police just based on a suspicion! Just suspicious movements in and out and even the fact that a whole lot of them live being mantained by overseas funding would not be considered enough evidence to warrant an investigation on them and I was hoping that you guys could help me instead of having to resort reporting what me and quite a few others have observed to Homeland security.
And there's more: According to those that work nearby: The local mosque has remained close for at least 2 weeks, maybe more!

Oh thats only for non muslims... Muslims are considered "special" in usa. all you need to do is just tell police. It wouldnt matter if those people are innocent or are indeed part of something fishy. If not Police....then your local news agency (or Fox news at the worst case)....the next day even if what you suspect doesnt turn out to be true, you will be in the news headlines and front page of CNN, Fox and BBC!!! thats one slick trick to get you so famous and would also increase awareness amongst your community and they would all keep an eye on these palestenians in future instead of just you!
Reply

Woodrow
03-05-2007, 02:57 AM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
First of all the guy is not Puertorrican he is a Palestinian and he told me so himself...

I cannot go to the police just based on a suspicion! Just suspicious movements in and out and even the fact that a whole lot of them live being mantained by overseas funding would not be considered enough evidence to warrant an investigation on them and I was hoping that you guys could help me instead of having to resort reporting what me and quite a few others have observed to Homeland security.
And there's more: According to those that work nearby: The local mosque has remained close for at least 2 weeks, maybe more!
Perhaps there has been some misunderstanding all around here. Just because we are Muslim does not mean we are from the mid east and speak fluent Arabic. I doubt if we have more than a handful of members from the Mideast.

We have as much difficulty in uinderstanding them as you would have in communicating with a Lithuanian Muslim as to why Polish Christians are moving into his predominantly Muslim town.

Although we do share the same religion we do not have the same cultures nor languages, as those arrivals in Puerto Rico.

As for the Mosque being closed it is very possible that because of the small Muslim population it is more practical to just keep one or 2 centraly located mosques open. It does not make much sense to keep a building open in an area where it is only going to be used 1 or 2 hours a week. Peurto Rico is only half the size of Connecticut. A central Mosque would be within 50 miles from everybody on the Island. Also there are less than 6,000 Muslims in all of Puerto Rico. Most Mosques have more members than that.

When I lived out side of Austin, the closest Mosque to me was further than that. I doubt if many Muslims would consider having to travel 50 miles much of a sacrifice for Jummah.
Reply

Goku
03-05-2007, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
Well It was probably built no less than 4 to 5 years ago tops so it is pretty recent. And no my suspicions are not based on that "Oh they are muslims" but plenty of other facts i've already given plenty of times accros this thread
I see, well at least one thing you can say is that outsiders are carrying out construction projects on your Island, good or bad thing? Usually good but you'd know more in this case for your Island.

and on top of that when one considers what has happened all over the world with people blowing themselves up and beheading left and right in the name of your religion yes I do have more than a legitimate concern as to what their intentions might be...
We could have long winded discussions on this topic, but i dont think u'd like that in this thread, you're welcome to open up an appropriate thread for the above topic, put simply, most of them are to do with material conflict rather than religion.

The facts are:
a) Not only we have this mosque and just about all other mosques in the Island having being built with Saudi money but it seems they are also supprting the muslims they are bringing from overseas to fill those mosques financially as well paying for their housing, clothing and food!
The Saudis finance Mosque building around the world, but i havent heard any cases of them financing people's living, maybe the Palestinians in question are Palestinian refugees who had to flee from Israeli aggression and land grabs, which the Saudis are helping them out until they can manage themselves? Just a suggestion.

b) The structure itself looks more like a fortress than a house of prayer...

c) Most of the Palestinians/Jordanians that currently go to the local mosque and the others in the Island do not speak either English nor Spanish I know because just after 9/11 I called the phone number listed for it (now that number is no longer in service incidentally) and the one that first answered spoke neither of the Island's main languages... The same I have noticed of those that ocassionally visit the gas station where I work at...
I see. I dont know maybe since they're new they're planning to learn the local language. I dont see any reason why they'd move to cause trouble. Being Muslims, our religion teaches us to love God and His creations and live in peace. For God loves those who are kind and just. You could approach someone who visits the Mosque if not those who run the Mosque? Although they probably dont have hidden motives, nothing wrong with being cautious if you suspect suspicious activity.
Reply

جوري
03-05-2007, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by ABWAN
Oh thats only for non muslims... Muslims are considered "special" in usa. all you need to do is just tell police. It wouldnt matter if those people are innocent or are indeed part of something fishy. If not Police....then your local news agency (or Fox news at the worst case)....the next day even if what you suspect doesnt turn out to be true, you will be in the news headlines and front page of CNN, Fox and BBC!!! thats one slick trick to get you so famous and would also increase awareness amongst your community and they would all keep an eye on these palestenians in future instead of just you!
^^^ yup ... (just saw a see something... say something) ad ... (wink wink.)..

I think soy here is lacking some action in his gas station and just wanted to dream an elaborate story. It is great to be part of something so clandestine and important... might even be declared a local hero... should start it yourself soy just to hasten the whole thing along.

unhappy if they are on well-fare :rollseyes and unhappy if they get their money from else where :enough!: ... ****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't I guess! This topic has had more than 15 mins of fame.
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
03-05-2007, 03:03 AM
Islam in Puerto Rico: 2004 official data estimated there are 5,091 Muslims in Puerto Rico, representing about 0.13 percent of the population, although many Muslims on the island claim the numbers are much larger. The early Muslim community largely consisted of Palestinians who arrived between 1958 and 1962. At the time, the vast majority of Puerto Rico's Muslims lived in Río Piedras – a crowded suburb of San Juan – where they operated restaurants, jewelry stores and clothing outlets. For years a storefront mosque on Calle Padre Colón served the entire community. Today there are mosques and Islamic Centers in Aguadilla, San Juan, Hatillo, Ponce, Arecibo, and Río Piedras. The American Muslim Association of North America (AMANA) also has an office in Cayey. Similar to their counterparts in the United States (particularly New York), large numbers of indigenous Puerto Ricans are becoming interested in Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Puerto_Rico

may Allah (swt) guide these interesting group of people to Islam Insha-allah
Reply

tomtomsmom
03-05-2007, 03:20 AM
Ok so I admit, this may be a dumb question but, how do you know that they are getting all this money from Saudi's?
Reply

Woodrow
03-05-2007, 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Ok so I admit, this may be a dumb question but, how do you know that they are getting all this money from Saudi's?
Good Point.
Reply

ABWAN
03-05-2007, 03:51 AM
My guess (and purely mine)

Those people dont speak english or spanish..which means they only speak arabic...Saudi people also speak arabic...besides, saudi supports Palestine financially

This is how people see it I guess

Muslims -> Arabic -> suspicious -> Saudi -> Usama
Reply

Woodrow
03-05-2007, 03:59 AM
Originally Posted by ABWAN
My guess (and purely mine)

Those people dont speak english or spanish..which means they only speak arabic...Saudi people also speak arabic...besides, saudi supports Palestine financially

This is how people see it I guess

Muslims -> Arabic -> suspicious -> Saudi -> Usama
Sad but true. Refusal to accept or understand; results in fear and that leads to assumptions to justify the fear.

I guess nobody every thought that because many Palestinians came to PR in 1958 and now have their own business that they can bring over family that they have never seen and now help them achieve freedom and share in the family businesses.
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-05-2007, 04:08 AM
Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
Islam in Puerto Rico: 2004 official data estimated there are 5,091 Muslims in Puerto Rico, representing about 0.13 percent of the population, although many Muslims on the island claim the numbers are much larger. The early Muslim community largely consisted of Palestinians who arrived between 1958 and 1962. At the time, the vast majority of Puerto Rico's Muslims lived in Río Piedras – a crowded suburb of San Juan – where they operated restaurants, jewelry stores and clothing outlets. For years a storefront mosque on Calle Padre Colón served the entire community. Today there are mosques and Islamic Centers in Aguadilla, San Juan, Hatillo, Ponce, Arecibo, and Río Piedras. The American Muslim Association of North America (AMANA) also has an office in Cayey. Similar to their counterparts in the United States (particularly New York), large numbers of indigenous Puerto Ricans are becoming interested in Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Puerto_Rico

may Allah (swt) guide these interesting group of people to Islam Insha-allah
Dude I dare you to show me just how many converts to Islam hAnd pleaave they gotten in the Island in at least the last 3 years and I guarantee you will be hard pressed to find more than 2!

And plz do not use Wikipedia as a refference because that article is so full of exagerations is not even funny! I mean 5091 muslims in the Island I can categorically tell you that at best they number between 2000 to 3000 tops and 3000 is probably stretching it quite a bit.

Your scare tactics will not work with me...
Reply

Woodrow
03-05-2007, 04:15 AM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
Dude I dare you to show me just how many converts to Islam hAnd pleaave they gotten in the Island in at least the last 3 years and I guarantee you will be hard pressed to find more than 2!

And plz do not use Wikipedia as a refference because that article is so full of exagerations is not even funny! I mean 5091 muslims in the Island I can categorically tell you that at best they number between 2000 to 3000 tops and 3000 is probably stretching it quite a bit.

Your scare tactics will not work with me...
Which makes it even more logical that the Mosque in Ponce is not very active and has been closed for 2 weeks. Each of the 6 mosques here in Austin has nearly 2,000 members Each and Austin has a minimum of 6,000 Muslims, probably closer to 12,000. And we are just one small city in Texas.

All of Puerto Rico does not need more than one Mosque at this time. Perhaps with prayer Puerto Rico can be saved and there will be more of a need for Mosques.
Reply

ABWAN
03-05-2007, 04:18 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Sad but true. Refusal to accept or understand; results in fear and that leads to assumptions to justify the fear.

I guess nobody every thought that because many Palestinians came to PR in 1958 and now have their own business that they can bring over family that they have never seen and now help them achieve freedom and share in the family businesses.
Reality is FEAR SELLS.... its amazing to see some people claiming to have gotten away from fear of God, only to find themself in fear of life and terror! ABC had a program about terror, where they said the average no. of people who die from hitting a deer is far more than terror attacks! They showed one guy who sold his wealthy car dealership business in manhattan right after 9/11 and move with his family to Florida.. He is scared to take flights, so he drives with his family to NY!!!

Soy, regarding the wikipedia article, I believe you can edit the article if you have proof that the article is incorrect.
Reply

edil
03-05-2007, 04:31 AM
Do you think thats a good question to ask here and what makes you think we can do anything about it and if you dont feel comfortable with where their at then why dont you move and get far away from them as you can cause youre not the one who brought them here nor can you kick them out so if you cant beat it then be it....Hope you can resolve your problem with the government not with us.
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-05-2007, 04:48 AM
Originally Posted by edil
Do you think thats a good question to ask here and what makes you think we can do anything about it and if you dont feel comfortable with where their at then why dont you move and get far away from them as you can cause youre not the one who brought them here nor can you kick them out so if you cant beat it then be it....Hope you can resolve your problem with the government not with us.
Well in favor of this board as opposed to many other Muslim boards I've been most of the posters (not all though) have been extremely well manered in all the other ones the response I would get would have been something along the lines of "Were going to conquer and kill you all dirty Kuffar... "

In regards to why ask this here the answer is easy! You are muslims yourselves and as such who else can be qualified if not people that practice the same religion as they do...

In regards to moving out hah! If you think you muslims are going to kick me and and all my fellow Boricuas out of our country all I have to say is you are sorely mistaken!
Reply

Woodrow
03-05-2007, 04:58 AM
In regards to why ask this here the answer is easy! You are Muslims yourselves and as such who else can be qualified if not people that practice the same religion as they do...
At the moment I do not think we have a single Palestinian member. so we do not have any views as to what the Palestinian thoughts are.

Islam has no ordained clergy. we have no central figure that dictates protocol to us. Our Religion is based simply what we read in the Qur'an and the Hadith.
No person has authority between each Muslim and Allah(swt)

I know what they will do as Muslims but I do not know what they will do as Palestinians.
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
03-05-2007, 06:36 AM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
Your scare tactics will not work with me...
:D now hold on chuck i wasn't trying to scare you! , did you just expose yourself? :D

let's be honest, the real reason you made this topic has nothing to do with the muslims fleeing from oppression to your kind people who accepted them, it has nothing to do with the muslims who have business connections in Jeddah, it has nothing to do with that mosque that according to you looks like a fortress

it's those heavy metal doors you fear it's the realization that your compatriots might be one day walking in and out with Allah (swt) book in their hearts

it's ok friend i understand :) continue
Reply

SATalha
03-05-2007, 10:00 AM
Oh yeah its the immigrants going mad and commiting all the crimes, My Dad's been a criminal since he came. What a bunch of bananas, my Paps has been working from day one. We immigrants have done so much for your country and contributed to the economy greatly.
Reply

Idris
03-05-2007, 11:07 AM
You should move to Poland. They're 95% Roman Catholic.... I've spoken to alot of Poles and they've said they're shocked at the amount ethnics there are and that it's rare in Poland. One of a few countries that keeps borders closed!
LOL how many poles are coming to the UK?
I always read in newpapers how the poles are taking the jobs lol.
It's not that Poland keep it's borders closed it's cuz is it soo poor no1 want's to go to it.

The Uk had it's time sucking all the money out of other country now it's our time. We will go back then we are done sucking the last £ out of this country.
Reply

afriend
03-05-2007, 07:31 PM
Look at it this way, your ancestors must have been immigrants some time or another. I mean, there have been several periods in British history where there have been invaders and settlers, such as the Anglo Saxons, Celts, Normans, Romans...Your ancestors must have been among them, they can't have been here since the start of time.

And yes, I've studied your country's history very well...Just doing my part to clean the plate which I eat out of. Are you going to throw me out?
Oh, and England, I think you forgot to address this point....It's something to think about!

To everyone else in here, the thread starter is just another guy who is too scared to do anything in real life, hence he is resulting to ranting on a forum...Like he said before he can't go to the police or anything because he would probably get looked at in a funny way for acting paranoid.

:w:
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SoyBoricua
03-05-2007, 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
:D now hold on chuck i wasn't trying to scare you! , did you just expose yourself? :D

let's be honest, the real reason you made this topic has nothing to do with the muslims fleeing from oppression to your kind people who accepted them, it has nothing to do with the muslims who have business connections in Jeddah, it has nothing to do with that mosque that according to you looks like a fortress

it's those heavy metal doors you fear it's the realization that your compatriots might be one day walking in and out with Allah (swt) book in their hearts

it's ok friend i understand :) continue
Dream on chuck dream on! We Puertoricans are on to you and your tactics of moving in and then claiming dominance over all when sufficient strenght in numbers exist. We saw it happened in Lebanon decades ago, we see it happening in the Philiphines, Thailand and even the U.K where is no secret that your fellow muslims seek to impose sharia law on the country despite it being overwhelmingly Secular/Christian etc...

Do not confuse our kindness and friendliness with weakness as you have in those other countries who opened their doors to you only to see their own citizens blown up, beheaded, murdered etc. in the name of your religion...
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Woodrow
03-05-2007, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
Dream on chuck dream on! We Puertoricans are on to you and your tactics of moving in and then claiming dominance over all when sufficient strenght in numbers exist. We saw it happened in Lebanon decades ago, we see it happening in the Philiphines, Thailand and even the U.K where is no secret that your fellow muslims seek to impose sharia law on the country despite it being overwhelmingly Secular/Christian etc...

Do not confuse our kindness and friendliness with weakness as you have in those other countries who opened their doors to you only to see their own citizens blown up, beheaded, murdered etc. in the name of your religion...
Peace,

Fear is a vicious enemy to all of mankind. Irrational fear is even more frightening. Going back into our American History Muslims have been here since the days of Cristobal Colon, There were Muslims aboard the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria.

Some of the Early settlers of Puerto Rico from the conquistadors were Muslim. There have been Muslims in Hispanola since the Days of the Conquistadors. You probably grew up living next door to Muslims without knowing it.

Islam has spread way beyound the Arabian Peninsula so that today over 85% of the worlds Muslims are not Arabic. We are all flavors. I am basically a Lithuanian that was born in Hartford, Connecticut. The members of this Forum are an odd mixture, we are Australian, Malaysian, American, Canadian, German, Finnish, Pakastani, Somalian, British, and many other things, but we are Muslim.

The country with worlds largest Muslim Population is Indonesia, There is a very large number in the US and Mexico. We are in all of the European countries. Although we all have different color skin, hair and eye colorings we are all Muslims and we are world wide.

Now if your fears were true and valid, your words:

Do not confuse our kindness and friendliness with weakness as you have in those other countries who opened their doors to you only to see their own citizens blown up, beheaded, murdered etc. in the name of your religion.
Would be daily occurances world wide in every Country and State.

If you don't listen to us, at least listen to the wise words of FDR "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself."

There is no reason for the world to fear Muslims. The Truth is we honestly are a religion of Peace, no matter what the world's media has shown.
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AmarFaisal
03-05-2007, 09:22 PM
Soy started this argument for the sake of an argument!!
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Woodrow
03-05-2007, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by AmarFaisal
Soy started this argument for the sake of an argument!!
I agree with that. But, I think it has given all of us some food for thought so we can get a real understanding of the misconceptions many people have towards us.

with that said and since the only place this thread can go is downhill. Only one final word needs to be said

Peace

I said all I can here
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Maidah
03-05-2007, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
Dream on chuck dream on! We Puertoricans are on to you and your tactics of moving in and then claiming dominance over all when sufficient strenght in numbers exist. We saw it happened in Lebanon decades ago, we see it happening in the Philiphines, Thailand and even the U.K where is no secret that your fellow muslims seek to impose sharia law on the country despite it being overwhelmingly Secular/Christian etc...

Do not confuse our kindness and friendliness with weakness as you have in those other countries who opened their doors to you only to see their own citizens blown up, beheaded, murdered etc. in the name of your religion...
I can't understand as to why u think it's ok for u to speak on behalf of everyone. Get one thing clear u never asked these ppl to come, therefore there is nothing you can do to kick them out. I'm sorry to say but i find u to be a bit sad, who for the sake of attention would randomly drop in such a question that has nothing to do with us. What makes you think we're answerable to u?:rollseyes These matters are handled based on advance govermental levels, not on some random individuals opinion.

If something bothers you, one does something about it, but since you're only in the position to pose an opinion and not act, then how about accepting it and moving on?:X
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SoyBoricua
03-05-2007, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Peace,
Fear is a vicious enemy to all of mankind. Irrational fear is even more frightening. Going back into our American History Muslims have been here since the days of Cristobal Colon, There were Muslims aboard the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria.
Some of the Early settlers of Puerto Rico from the conquistadors were Muslim. There have been Muslims in Hispanola since the Days of the Conquistadors. You probably grew up living next door to Muslims without knowing it.
Prove it! I dare you to prove one single muslim conquistador! ;D
You see I do know plenty about history and I know for a fact that when Columbus was commisioned by Spain to find a new Route to the Indies which led to the discovery of this hemisphere, Spain had freed themselves of Moorish Islamic rule. The moors as the muslims in Spain where called back then would have never been welcome on board any spanish vessel at that time...

Originally Posted by Woodrow
Islam has spread way beyound the Arabian Peninsula so that today over 85% of the worlds Muslims are not Arabic. We are all flavors. I am basically a Lithuanian that was born in Hartford, Connecticut. The members of this Forum are an odd mixture, we are Australian, Malaysian, American, Canadian, German, Finnish, Pakastani, Somalian, British, and many other things, but we are Muslim.
The country with worlds largest Muslim Population is Indonesia, There is a very large number in the US and Mexico. We are in all of the European countries. Although we all have different color skin, hair and eye colorings we are all Muslims and we are world wide.
Most muslims in the U.S are in fact located in Deaborn Michigan and most of them are very much of Arab decendency. As Mexico is concerned there's a significant mulsim population that is relegated mostly to a group of natives that used to follow a very legalist pseudochristian cult...


Originally Posted by Woodrow
Now if your fears were true and valid, your words:
Do not confuse our kindness and friendliness with weakness as you have in those other countries who opened their doors to you only to see their own citizens blown up, beheaded, murdered etc. in the name of your religion.

Would be daily occurances world wide in every Country and State.

If you don't listen to us, at least listen to the wise words of FDR "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself."

There is no reason for the world to fear Muslims. The Truth is we honestly are a religion of Peace, no matter what the world's media has shown.
Oh but they are they very much are! Now thankfully there are muslims who do recognize their religion is in trouble and are trying to do something about it such as Kamal Nawash and his Free Muslims Coalition organization...
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Woodrow
03-05-2007, 10:25 PM
Prove it! I dare you to prove one single muslim conquistador! ;D
You see I do know plenty about history and I know for a fact that when Columbus was commisioned by Spain to find a new Route to the Indies which led to the discovery of this hemisphere, Spain had freed themselves of Moorish Islamic rule. The moors as the muslims in Spain where called back then would have never been welcome on board any spanish vessel at that time...
For beginners check your history books and see who Columbus's navigator was.



Most muslims in the U.S are in fact located in Deaborn Michigan and most of them are very much of Arab decendency. As Mexico is concerned there's a significant mulsim population that is relegated mostly to a group of natives that used to follow a very legalist pseudochristian cult..
The estimated numbers of Muslims in the US ranges from 6 to 20 Million.

For Muslim Populations in the US The States with the Highest Muslim populations are CA. NY and TX. Here in Austin I am aware of at least 6,000 Muslims and the estimated Muslim population is much higher.



I believe here in Austin we have a larger Muslim Population than Dearborn has.

One caution to watch in the US, The NOI also calls themselves Muslim They are not an Islamic group and they are a very radical group..
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Liibaan
03-05-2007, 10:32 PM
This Boricua guy has already proven he knows nothing about us or about Islam, he's just arguing because of his skewed outlook on us and our diin, and our apparent goal of "dominating the world". Our leader is prophet Muhammad SAW, not Dr. Evil. We'd be better off just to ignore this guy.
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Keltoi
03-05-2007, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
For beginners check your history books and see who Columbus's navigator was.





The estimated numbers of Muslims in the US ranges from 6 to 20 Million.

For Muslim Populations in the US The States with the Highest Muslim populations are CA. NY and TX. Here in Austin I am aware of at least 6,000 Muslims and the estimated Muslim population is much higher.



I believe here in Austin we have a larger Muslim Population than Dearborn has.

One caution to watch in the US, The NOI also calls themselves Muslim They are not an Islamic group and they are a very radical group..
Could you provide a link to any credible source for the Muslims aboard Columbus's ships? It isn't that I don't believe you. I've studied alot of history, but Columbus wasn't really an important subject for me. Sorry, I know it's off topic....but it's better than the point of the thread in my opinion.
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islamistheway
03-05-2007, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Perhaps for the same reason so many have come here to Texas. They came because of opportunity to advance and to fulfill all themselves to their highest Potential.

You may have noticed that Palestine and Jordan and not exactly conducive to people who have good business skills and the like. Does it not make more sense for them to go to areas where they can utilise their skills, earn higher income and use that to help their country men to the best of their ability.

It also makes sense for people to go to an areas where there is high tolerance for Muslims, which apparantly the people of your country shaow and I would assume your country has no laws that would prevent them from living as Muslims.

Yes, some will come for the purpose of helping our religion. However we do not advocate spreading Islam by force or obnoxious Evangelism. We believe that the best way is by example and to let people see that we truly are people of peace and it is our desire to live in Harmony with all people.
i second what brother woodrow has written.. :) also, Muslim's, like everyone else are human beings and they have an equal right to go to which ever country they like. :) even if they do not know the language of the country it should not be a hinderence for them living there.
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Woodrow
03-05-2007, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Could you provide a link to any credible source for the Muslims aboard Columbus's ships? It isn't that I don't believe you. I've studied alot of history, but Columbus wasn't really an important subject for me. Sorry, I know it's off topic....but it's better than the point of the thread in my opinion.
I'm going to do things backward and start with one of the strongest refutations against Muslims being with Columbus, then come back with the rest of the stories. Might as well get the refutation out of the way first.

September 15, 2004, 5:56 a.m.
Christopher Columbus, Multicultural
Politics, not history, is behind this new tale.

By Robert Spencer

Not too many years ago, I witnessed a small band of angry protesters stalking down a Manhattan street chanting, "Columbus! Did Not! Discover! America!" I remember how quickly Columbus became a symbol of all that was wrong with the West: racism, imperialism, colonialism — and don't forget smallpox and cholera.




But now the old sea dog can come in from the cold, though an unlikelier candidate for a multicultural poster child could hardly be found. In a press release issued late last month titled "Islamic Influence Runs Deep in American Culture," Phyllis McIntosh of the State Department's Washington File burbles that "Islamic influences may date back to the very beginning of American history. It is likely that Christopher Columbus, who discovered America in 1492, charted his way across the Atlantic Ocean with the help of an Arab navigator."

Source: http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...0409150556.asp
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wilberhum
03-05-2007, 10:53 PM
I think this part must have been over looked.
Unfortunately for State and the schoolchildren of Massachusetts, there is not a shred of historical evidence for this
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Keltoi
03-05-2007, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think this part must have been over looked.
I'm going to wait for Woodrow's additional posts before I come to that conclusion. I must admit I find the idea unlikely, but Columbus has never been one of my areas of study.
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Woodrow
03-05-2007, 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think this part must have been over looked.
Nope that part was not over looked, that is the reason I stated I was starting with the refutation.



Some of the states are now using Text books backing the Islamic claim that there was a Muslim navigator. that was what prompted that refutation.

I am searching now for a Non-Islamic link about that. From My early days in the 40s and 50s we were taught way back then that Columbus had an Arab navigator. I want to find some of the old sources as they do not show any bias.
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Liibaan
03-06-2007, 12:57 AM
I read the article that Woodrow posted, and found this about the author:

Robert Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch, author of Onward Muslim Soldiers and Islam Unveiled, and editor of the forthcoming essay collection The Myth of Islamic Tolerance.
Not the kind of person I would trust to say anything good about Islam. If you can, Woodrow, please find an article written by a non-partisan author.
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Woodrow
03-06-2007, 01:22 AM
Not the kind of person I would trust to say anything good about Islam. If you can, Woodrow, please find an article written by a non-partisan author.
I agree, but that article is also the refutation that would come up as it is published in a number of magazines. Mr. Spencer got around.

There have been many claims that Muslims were with Columbus and many not by Muslims. It is the Non-Muslim ones I am looking for. Although The Text books from the mideast support their being Muslims with Columbus, the ones here in the US also made mention back in the 1940s and 50s
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SoyBoricua
03-06-2007, 05:26 AM
Oh please you muslims not only claim that Columbus came along with Muslims but that you Muslims where the first to discover the new World even before the Vikings set foot in it!
Not only that some claims go as far as saying that Islam was spread and practiced all thru out the hemisphere long before 1492 and that there ruins of mosques all over the hemisphere as well from North America to South America and all accross the Caribbean Islands look:
Muslims allegedly dicover the new world and spread Islam long before 1492!:rollseyes

By the way I had made a harmless thread in what allegedly is the general chat forum about which TV shows here people like to watch only to be canned which showcases perfectly as to why Co-existence is all but impossible!

In any event someone there mentioned the shoiw Sleeper cell and is worth mentioning because the irony is that not only is the main character and here a muslim but the producers themselves are muslim!
The saddest thing of it all though is the fact that their own fellow muslims see them as Zionists, Heretics and traitors of the worst kind! And why?
Because a muslim plays a hero defending his country but off course what he should be loyal is to the Ummah and the Ummah alone right?:rollseyes
Another example as to why co-existence is all but a dellusion...
I can show a few links from Ummah.com to showcase how your fellow muslims feel about the show and those that produce it!

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...t=Sleeper+Cell

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...t=Sleeper+Cell

Here's a clip from the show itself:

Is this truly the greater Jihad or what

In Ummah.com they said that the Immam was wrong and the shmuck that killed him right what do you say?

While you are at it what do you say about this:

http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index...=355&Itemid=55


http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index...=566&Itemid=26


And this:
http://bloghi.com/

So do not tell me or try to convince me that your religion is one of peace. When the reality is quite another...
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AbuAbdallah
03-06-2007, 09:30 AM
Because a muslim plays a hero defending his country but off course what he should be loyal is to the Ummah and the Ummah alone right?
Correct.
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Idris
03-06-2007, 12:11 PM
SoyBoricua do you mind make a new thread.. on your attack on Islam?

Your hate for Islam had blinded you. I see that your not here for any constructive learning. If you have something on Islam then say it, however we (Muslims) are not going to defend other Muslims.
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Woodrow
03-06-2007, 05:09 PM
It is somewhat paradoxol that you would start a thread like this.



Oddly Back in the 1950s my family in NY, Connecticut and Massachusets was wondering the very same thing about Puerto Ricans.

If the internet had been around, there probably would have been questions asked like:

"What are your fellow Puerto Ricans exactly doing in my State?"

It is odd that you started this thread as in the 1950s your people were doing the very same things as you see Muslims doing in Puerto Rico. We as Americans gained from it. For the most part we have discovered that most Puerto Ricans are very hard working industrious people with high standards of morality. We discovered that in spite of the attack on the US congress by a group of militants, Puerto Rico was not out to overthrow the US. We discovered that because most of them were very religious they were not out to evangelize NY and CT. We managed to cast our fears away and have learned that Peurto Ricans are Just as American as those of us who were born in the lower 48.

Perhaps if you could set your hate aside you will see that Muslims in Puerto Rico are no different than the Puerto Ricans in MA, CT and Ny. Facing the same hardships, fears and bigotry your people faced in the 1950s
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Keltoi
03-06-2007, 05:27 PM
Hopefully there will come a day soon when the Muslim immigrants to the U.S. and elsewhere are accepted as willing participants in the governmental and economic system of which they have joined. As a fairly new wave of immigrants, there will always be those who look upon them with distrust and animosity. It has happened with all waves of immigrants, whether from Ireland, Italy, Japan, etc. Eventually the currect conflict will end, and these immigrants will no longer be viewed in the context of conflict.
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Woodrow
03-06-2007, 05:57 PM
Very True, when my parents came here from Lithuania, it was the same thing. Every wave of immigrants have been hit with the same problems. People all over need to remember that at one time their ancestors were treated in the very same manner they are now treating new immigrants.

If a persons parents or grandparents did not come and overthrow the country, why pass judgement on other new comers.

I will have to make one special distinction about Puerto Ricans. Most of their ancestors are native Americans so many do not have ancestors that came from other Countries. However the Peurto Ricans that moved to NYC and CT did get treated as immigrants. Some ways Peurto Ricans were treated worse than immigrants. They are and have always been US citizens. But, they were treated as immigrants when they decided to move North.

But, with that in mind, the topic starter should have some empathy towards new comers and not fear or hate.
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aamirsaab
03-06-2007, 07:36 PM
:sl:

Which confirms also what you teach your children no less too..
You know, I really do hate sweeping statements.

I believe this thread requires a clean up.

(p.s; I don't have moderation power in this section, so am unable to do so myself)
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chacha_jalebi
03-06-2007, 07:53 PM
lol :p

bless you, you cant take the fact that muslims have come in your country and built a mosque, and your sittin in your own country probably livin off pensions :p

ethanol? woh blud atleast you know one scientific word good on ya :D did the muslims teach you that then:p

if your a real man, why dont you go to the mosque and ask why the muslims are here :D saddo :D

lol typical :p sittin behind a computer and actin tough, you are obviosly showin signs of stress i suggest you take a swim in your island :p
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SoyBoricua
03-06-2007, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:


You know, I really do hate sweeping statements.

I believe this thread requires a clean up.

(p.s; I don't have moderation power in this section, so am unable to do so myself)
You mean like one of your mods removing the pictures and links I've provided as they always do in all Islamist boards?

Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
lol :p

bless you, you cant take the fact that muslims have come in your country and built a mosque, and your sittin in your own country probably livin off pensions :p

ethanol? woh blud atleast you know one scientific word good on ya :D did the muslims teach you that then:p

if your a real man, why dont you go to the mosque and ask why the muslims are here :D saddo :D

lol typical :p sittin behind a computer and actin tough, you are obviosly showin signs of stress i suggest you take a swim in your island :p

I've gone but it has been closed for 2 weeks or so...
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aamirsaab
03-06-2007, 08:01 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
You mean like one of your mods removing the pictures and links I've provided as they always do in all Islamist boards?
Actually, the idea behind my post was to get your thread back on track. I imagine you still would like an answer to your question(s).
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Keltoi
03-06-2007, 08:29 PM
Posting images of radicals holding up signs isn't a good way to prove a point about the whole of the Muslim world. It is no more effective than posting images of neo-nazis and claiming that represents the whole of the "white" race. I understand your concern(Soy) about some of the Muslim community in the West, but attacking the faith isn't going to get you constructive responses....if that is what you are indeed looking for.
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tomtomsmom
03-06-2007, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:


You know, I really do hate sweeping statements.

I believe this thread requires a clean up.

(p.s; I don't have moderation power in this section, so am unable to do so myself)
Yes it does. Or just be closed all together. This is just a thread for people to fight and sling insults which in my opinion isn't very Islamic or Christian.

In hopes of getting this back on topic I will ask the same question again because it has still gone unanswered.........how do you know they are getting all of their money from the Suadis?
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SoyBoricua
03-06-2007, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Yes it does. Or just be closed all together. This is just a thread for people to fight and sling insults which in my opinion isn't very Islamic or Christian.

In hopes of getting this back on topic I will ask the same question again because it has still gone unanswered.........how do you know they are getting all of their money from the Suadis?
I never said they are getting all of their money from the Saudis I said most of the money that supports them come from there the rest probably comes from thr few wealthy palestinians that live here but only a fraction at best.

I see that you have a quote from Edmund Burke in your SIG which happens to be my favorite quote.

The truth is Islam is a religion in deep, deep trouble and the sooner muslims realize this the better is for everyone. And if you cannot see this you are as much part of the problem as they are as long as they do not accept this...
You have that quote but you do not live by it, I on the other hand do...

Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...steastmoms.jpg

How is this image supporting his stand? lol you have a Western Mother teaching her kid western superiority over other groups and you have a Eastern mother teaching her kid so-called ''terrorism''

we all know this is ridicilous since the majority of Western mothers don't teach their kids to look down on other groups regarding bloody historical incidents and the majority of Eastern Mothers don't teach their children to grab a grenade and throw it at non muslims

i wonder why this ''garbage'' is even allowed on here, it really lowers the standard of this forum
You should really look again because what the western mother is actually telling her kid is to remember what they did in the past to all thiose groups so that he should be mindful and tolerant toward them in contrast to what the muslim woman is teaching her son...:rollseyes
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Keltoi
03-06-2007, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
I never said they are getting all of their money from the Saudis I said most of the money that supports them come from there the rest probably comes from thr few wealthy palestinians that live here but only a fraction at best.

I see that you have a quote from Edmund Burke in your SIG which happens to be my favorite quote.

The truth is Islam is a religion in deep, deep trouble and the sooner muslims realize this the better is for everyone. And if you cannot see this you are as much part of the problem as they are as long as they do not accept this...
You have that quote but you do not live by it, I on the other hand do...
Are you equating Islam with evil? If you are you should be ashamed for doing so. As an American I'm as concerned with terrorism as you are, but I've been around the world enough to know that Islam isn't evil, people are.
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SoyBoricua
03-06-2007, 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Are you equating Islam with evil? If you are you should be ashamed for doing so. As an American I'm as concerned with terrorism as you are, but I've been around the world enough to know that Islam isn't evil, people are.
No what I'm saying is that what is happening nowadays within Islam, it's current curriculums being spread around mosques worldwide from Saudi Arabia is evil.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Dont say Islam, say Muslims. There is nothing wrong with Islam, it is Muslims who need a serious shape up. Current curriculums or old. Its ideas do not change. If change comes in anything, it is the Muslims themselves.
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جوري
03-06-2007, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
No what I'm saying is that what is happening nowadays within Islam, it's current curriculums being spread around mosques worldwide from Saudi Arabia is evil.

Hmmmmmmmmmn fascinating... as are your other posts!
Why don't you enlist and go fight in Iraq or Afghanistan? better than working in a gas station and reducing yourself to shameless insults on a forum? I am sure you'll be declared as celebrity or a local hero for your efforts!

Might also prove to be a humbling experience, we also hope it will improve your vocabulary (its) not (it is) as well as your other ill conceived world views?...

There is 1.8 billion Muslims and if we are all in deep trouble we'd want one soy burrito telling us live, instead of hiding behind the sour cream!

I think this post has meandered all over the place and it is time on of the moderators closed it. I must admit however that I have never seen a member to have a negative reputation beneath their name.... which has been the single most interesting factor in his posts thus far

I really don't understand why other members still continue to humor this fellow?
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tomtomsmom
03-06-2007, 09:32 PM
I never said they are getting all of their money from the Saudis I said most of the money that supports them come from there the rest probably comes from thr few wealthy palestinians that live here but only a fraction at best.
Ok so how do you know where they are getting money from?


The truth is Islam is a religion in deep, deep trouble and the sooner muslims realize this the better is for everyone. And if you cannot see this you are as much part of the problem as they are as long as they do not accept this...
Islam is a religion of peace. SOME people have distorted that and turned it into something it is not. If these are the only people you know then I am very sorry for the fact that you haven't seen the other side that is really beautiful. All of the muslims I know personally and many here on this board know this. It is the same you go anywhere, some people will be good and some will be bad. But to herd them all under one banner that says terrorist on it is very closed minded.


You have that quote but you do not live by it, I on the other hand do...
You have no idea how I live so please do not assume that you do. Thanks!
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Woodrow
03-06-2007, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by SoyBoricua
I cannot because it's the top religious leadership that is driving all this madness around. Say what you will about your religion not having a central figure like Roman Catholics do but Saudi Arabia and it's Grand Mufti in Mecca along with it's huge wealth in oil exerts an enormous influence in the overall practices of your religion and we are witnessing the results of that influence just about every day in the news..

This is no different from what Christianity went thru in the dark ages...

The truth is no religion can be above criticism. Without it the results are always catastrophic!
Please PM the Grand Mufti that us Muslims in the US seem to be missing this support he is supposed to be sending us Muslims. Also us US Muslims seem to be missing out on the oil royalties also. OOOps, Puerto Ricans are US Citizens. Odd that the Grand Mufti would be supporting some Americans.

The only money I am aware of that Saudi Arabia has sent to the US was for support of the NON-MUSLIM victims of Hurricane Katrina.
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tomtomsmom
03-06-2007, 10:12 PM
I know for a fact it is not the government because if that were the case they would be living in public housing projects instead of the suburbs where most of them live...
But that doesn't mean that it is Saudi money. It could be from anywhere...



But the fact is and remains that Islam is in trouble. Just as much trouble as Christianity was during the dark ages but with the added problem of modern weaponry including nukes thrown in...
Humanity is in trouble. It isn't just muslims that are killing people ya know:cry:
Reply

SoyBoricua
03-06-2007, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Please PM the Grand Mufti that us Muslims in the US seem to be missing this support he is supposed to be sending us Muslims. Also us US Muslims seem to be missing out on the oil royalties also. OOOps, Puerto Ricans are US Citizens. Odd that the Grand Mufti would be supporting some Americans.

The only money I am aware of that Saudi Arabia has sent to the US was for support of the NON-MUSLIM victims of Hurricane Katrina.
The mosques you have around have been for the most part built with Saudi money. The curriculums that are thought are theirs as well...

Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
But that doesn't mean that it is Saudi money. It could be from anywhere...
Well it cannot be the Colombian Cartels, Nor Castro or Chavez so that only leaves the Saudi's who are the only ones that have not only the means but the interest that if they built mosques they need to bring people to fill them with now don't they?



Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Humanity is in trouble. It isn't just muslims that are killing people ya know:cry:
But they are the only ones killing in the name of their religion especifically...
Reply

IB-Staff
03-06-2007, 10:45 PM
I think this thread has served its purpose. Thread closed.
Reply

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