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Muslim Woman
03-09-2007, 12:54 AM



I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)

&&



How to Make America an Islamic Nation


by Yahiya Emerick


I was born and raised here. This is my land. I'll raise my children here, Insha'allah and probably be buried here as well.


I knew that by accepting Islam I was declaring that America needed to do so too. America, my home, would naturally become an Islamic country one day.


There is no other way to think if you are a truly conscientious believer in Allah.




...The Yemenis formed a master plan and determined to stay together. They set up a fund and slowly bought one house after another, moving Muslim families in and drug-infested kafirs out, until they literally had thousands of Muslims businesses and stores in the heart of the community and bought a huge Catholic church and made it into a beautiful masjid. They even made a small community health care center!


When we were leaving our meeting and walking to the masjid for salat, it was the most beautiful sight: from all directions, men, women and children, of all races, were going to their masjid as a community.



I've never been to Muslim country before, but I'll tell you this much, I felt as if I were in an Islamic country. And this wasn't Egypt or India or Turkey. It was right here - in America


http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/america.html

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snakelegs
03-09-2007, 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

How to Make America an Islamic Nation

Ouch!!!!
Reply

Yanal
03-09-2007, 01:00 AM
sorry i don't get this thread can you explain it to me
Wa Salaam
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-09-2007, 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
Ouch!!!!


Salaam/peace,


:giggling: :giggling: :giggling:


in another forum , a Christian became so angry , he threated to complain to FBI / related org about our revert American bro.

:p


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NoName55
03-09-2007, 01:21 AM
’Europe is pregnant with Islam and will give a birth to an Islamic nation’
Thursday, May 19, 2005
KurdishMedia.com - By Aland Mizell
Europe is pregnant with Islam and will give birth to an Islamic Nation (Saidi Kurdi 1908)

Since September 11, the word Islam has become familiar words around the world. Some Muslims see this phenomenon as an open door for spreading Islam globally. Some even interpret this tragedy as fortuitous because they say Allah will bring good news out of bad news. Others argue that in the future Islam and the message of the Qur’an would have prevailed in any case. Also, some Muslims go further to provide what they perceive as clear proof that this victory will occur.

For example, students of Mola Saidi Kurdi refer to his writings to provide such evidence. Saidi Kurdi, an Islamic theologian, born in 1876 in the Kurdish city of Bedlîs in Northern Kurdistan (Southeastern Turkey), predicted a long time ago that Islam would, in what he deemed the near future, gain ascendancy. Because Islam
holds that everything happens for a reason, some Islamists interpret the World Trade Center attack as a means of spreading Islam. In this view the event advanced the early twentieth century prophecy of the Bediuzzamans [holy man].

In 1908, Saidi Kurdi foretold that Europe would become an Islamic nation. He wrote that his followers should take with pleasure the advantages of Europe - like technology and industry - that would assist them in their progress toward their goal and in the development of their civilization. However, he admonished them that they should forbid the sins and evils of Western civilization from entering the boundaries of their freedom and their culture. With the sword of the Sharia, the Quran, young people in his civilization would be protected by the pure, cold spring of life of the Sharia. He advised that they must imitate the Japanese in acquiring civilization, for by taking only the virtues of civilization from the Europeans, they would preserve their national customs, the leaven of every nation’s continuance, but leave behind the undesirable.

Believing that the most effective tool to defeat the enemy is to shoot the enemy with his own weapon, Muslims see the enemy’s weapon as democracy, rule of law, and particularly freedom of expression. Technology and higher education are also to be appropriated to use against infidels. In their home countries, most Islamists cannot exercise freedom of expression, but in the West they seize the benefits of democracy to spread Islam. Ironically, the airplane hijackers lived in the United States under the rule of law as ordinary members of the community until they executed their plan to crash the planes into the buildings and kill so many occupants. By this strategy of assessing the most advantageous tools of the Western world, Islamic organizations with a mission to revive an international Islamic state take hold of every means of achieving their goal, especially the benefits of the enemy’s society. Academic freedom, freedom of assembly, sophisticated technology, as well as values of tolerance, equal access, and freedom of speech have permitted Islam to become the most rapidly growing religion in both the United States and Europe.

At the turn of the twentieth century, Saidi Kurdi recognized that through their own technology Europeans could be conquered. His early writings predict this conquest. In the autumn of 1908, one of the leading members of the famous el-Ezher University in Cairo, and at one time Grand Mufti of Egypt, Seyh Muhammed Bahid visited Istanbul. The Istanbul ulema, inferior to Bediuzzaman in argument and debate, asked Seyh Bahid if he would meet him for an intellectual exchange. The Seyh accepted, and one day after prayers in Aya Sophia, a contest began. Bediuzzaman was seated in a tea-house with other ulema present. Seyh Bahid approached Bediuzzaman, and questioned him: "What is your opinion concerning Freedom and the Ottoman State, and European civilization?" Bediuzzaman unhesitatingly replied with insightful comment. "The Ottoman State is pregnant with Europe, and it will give birth to a European state one day. And Europe is pregnant with Islam; one day it will give birth to an Islamic state (Tarihe-i Hayat, shf. 45).

In his early writing he explained, "Europe and America are pregnant with Islam. One day, they will give birth to an Islamic state. Just as the Ottomans were pregnant with Europe and gave birth to a European state." He addressed his followers and those who would come, "O my brothers who are here in the Umayyad Mosque and those who are in the mosque of the world of Islam half a century later! to foretell of a worldwide Islamic empire.

He forecast that it is only Islam that will provide true moral and spiritual rule in the future and only Islam that will lead those under its State to happiness in this world and the next. He believed that true Christianity, stripping off superstition and corrupted belief, would be transformed into Islam; following the Qur’an, it would unite with Islam (Hutbe-i Samiye, 19-28.) Saidi Kurdi argued that Islam’s progress and supremacy in the future would prevail, because European civilization is founded on the negative virtues of "lust and passion, rivalry and oppression," rather than on virtue and guidance, as he believed Islam is. Secular Europe has cast off its Judeo-Christian values and the culture derived from them leaving a moral vacuum for Islam to rush in. Researchers studying Europe today note that church attendance has dropped and, for example in France, is at approximately five percent. As one cardinal noted, Europe has become a pagan continent. It is this secular paganism that has created the void.

Saidi Kurdi questioned his followers, "How is it that while there are such powerful and unshakable ways and means for the material and moral progress for the believers and people of Islam, and the road to future happiness has been opened up like a railway, you despair and fall into hopelessness in the face of the future and destroy the morale of the Islamic world?.... Since the inclination to seek perfection has been included in man’s essential nature, in the future truth and equity will show the way to a worldly happiness in the world of Islam, God willing, in which there will be atonement for the former errors of mankind (Hutbe-i Samiye, 28-32.) He asked them how they could be losing hope with such a potential for expansion.

In considering the expansion of his movement, Saidi Kurdi noticed that one of the sicknesses that had entered heart of the world of Islam was despair. In his interpretation of Said Nursi’s writings, Fethullah Gulen, a Turkish Islamic spiritual leader of a worldwide movement today, remarks: "He says that it was despair that had destroyed the morale of Muslims, so that the Europeans had been able to dominate them and make them their captives for the preceding four hundred years. And it was despair that had killed their high morality, and caused them to abandon the public good for personal benefit. And despair had even caused them to use the indifference and despondence of others as an excuse for their own laziness, and to abandon the courageousness of belief, and neglect their Islamic duties. He says that despair is the quality and pretext of cowards, the base, and the impotent. It cannot be the quality of the Arabs in particular, who are famous for their tenacity (Hutbe-i Samiye,
37-9).

Setting aside Saidi Kurdi’s Kurdishness, his successors capitalized on his Islamic theology and presented him as Said Nursi in his writings and in his reputation. Instead of remaining in a post-Ottoman despair, Saidi Kurdis followers were encouraged to spread Islam diligently, particularly through education. Said Nursi tells a parable of his movement: When Saidi Kurdi was on his way from Batum to Van he claimed that, "the future shall be Islam’s and Islam alone." In Tbilisi, today the capital of Georgia, Saidi Kurdi climbed the hill known as Shaykh Sanan Tepesi, which views the city of Tbilisi and valley of the river of Kura. When a Russian policeman approached him, the policeman asked him, "Why are you studying the land with such attention, Saidi Kurd?" Saidi Kurdi replied: "I am planning my medrese," and the conversation went on as follows:

Where are you from?
I’m from Bedlîs
But this is Tbilisi!
Bedlîs is one of Tbilisi.

The policeman was bewildered:
What do you mean?

Saidi Kurdi explained that three lights are beginning to be revealed one after the other in Asia and in the world of Islam. Three layers of darkness will start to recede, [ meaning that the Caucasian and Central Asian countries would become independent and take on Islam.]

This only increased the policemans bewilderment. I’m sorry for you he said. I’m astonished that you should entertain such a hope. And I am astonished at your lack of understanding! replied Bediuzzaman. Do you think it possible that this winter will continue? Every winter is followed by spring, and every night by day. But the Islamic world is all broken up and fragmented. They have gone to study. It is like this: India is an able son of Islam; it is studying in the high school of the British. Egypt is a clever son of Islam; it is taking lessons in the British school for civil servants. Caucasia and Turkestan are two valiant sons of Islam; they are training in the Russian war academy. And so on. You see, after these noble sons of Islam have received their diplomas, each will lead a continent, and, waving the banner of Islam, their just and mighty father, on the horizons of perfection, will proclaim the mystery of pre-eternal wisdom inherent in mankind in the view of pre-eternal divine determining and in the face of obstinate fate (Said Nursi. Kastamonu Lahikasi, 121-32).

Although written several decades ago, this narrative clearly sets forth the goals as well as the strategy of the Nur movement. Taking this prophecy to heart, Fethullah Gulen, the leader of the Fetullahci world wide educational system, Interfaith Dialogues, and the Rumi Organization, has raised up an army of young Islamists armed with a good education and the code of secrecy and unwavering allegiance to him, to go as missionaries to spread Islam and in so doing ensure the birth of Islam in Europe, and then in the United States. These youth are today’s noble sons who have waved the banner of Islam to bring about the obstinate fate of a global Islamic movement. Fethullah seemingly offers an alternative voice to radical Islam but behind the guise of tolerance and ecumenicalism lies Said Nursi’s injunction to bring about a European Islamic polity.

Gulen encourages his followers to leave their Islamic country to spread Islam and economically to be independent of the western countries. By infiltrating the most prestigious universities in Europe and in the United States, among other regions, they can gain not only an excellent education but through that means gain access to power, influence, and wealth. Receiving major scholarships, grants, and influential academic positions from teaching assistants to chairs of departments, they have made great inroads to influence the minds of the youth from the classroom lecture to the numerous articles in scholarly journals and leading newspapers.

Writing as supposed secular academicians, journalists, and independent players, they critique Islam and its tenets with seeming objectivity, while advancing their message in each seminar, symposium, article, or cultural event. A concerted effort to orchestrate Saidi Kurdi’s goals underlies the movements today. The success of this orchestration in Europe results from Saidi Kurdi’s oath to teach the Quran, so that it became the religious, social, and political foundation for a worldwide empire. Believing that the task of
Muslims was to spread the revelation of the Quran until the entire world accepted it, he applied this mission to Europe. Saidi Kurdi pledged to conquer through the Quran.

One time an Ottoman Pasha showed him an article about Islam in a London newspaper. It argued that as long as the Muslims had the Quran in their hands, they [the Europeans] could not colonize them [the Muslims]. It proposed, "We needed to take the Quran away from the Muslims, and then we can colonize them." Today Muslims
believe that once Muslims get away from the Quran, they will become inferior to non- Muslims; also, they believe that Islam will otherwise not be defeated but will instead prevail. From then on Saidi Kurdi believed their strength lay in the Quran and took an oath that he would prove to the world that the Quran is like a sun and would not disappear but would instead shine forever.

As of April 2005, the CIA Factbook categorizes the religious affiliations in Germany as 34% Protestants, 34% Catholic, 3.7% Muslim and 28.3% unaffiliated, but many of those labeled Protestant or Catholic are nominal while most of the Muslim hold to their faith in part because of their immigration to a host country. Approximately 3.4% of the population in Germany is Turkish. Other variables are the 0% population growth rate and the 2.18 per 1000 immigration rate. Indigenous Germans are having fewer children while immigrants are having many. Today, Germany has 2600 mosques, in England there are 900 mosques and many Islamic schools, and in France almost every city has at least one mosque (Yeni Asya newspaper 3 Nov. 2005). Clearly, Europe has a tremendously growing Muslim population.

According to the German Federal Foreign Office, there are about 3.2 million Muslims from forty-one different countries with Turks and Kurds being the most represented group. They came forty years ago trying to get the jobs that the Germans did not want like Mexicans today in the United States. Leaving much of the hard labor for immigrants, Germany allocates this work to the Turks today, but they have dominated almost all of the textile industry in Germany and have an Islamic bank, schools, and even a voice in politics. The Islamic scholar Fethullah Gulen encouraged his follower to go to Europe to spread Islam and to prove that Saidi Kurdi was right.

Fethullah Glen believes that the Islamic nation would begin with the German people. He claims that if Muslims are to be successful, first they have to be independent of Europe economically, and then be superior economically and socially. He argues that they cannot be a super nation if they are still begging from Europe or from the infidels (Fasildan Fasila 3). Muslims in Turkey advocate Turkey’s accession to the European Union more than secular people in Turkey for several reasons. First, Muslims will freely increase their missionary activity in Europe. Secondly, they will not have any pressure from the Turkish military, a long-term check on Islamic activities, because the role of the military will decrease. Thirdly, the unsolved problems, such as wearing the headscarf, will be solved because the EU’s value of freedom of religion will overcome the threat to secularism that the scarves pose today. If we look at the AK Party, Erdogan is following exactly the same line that Fethullah Gulen is using, pressing Turkey to join the European Union. He uses a secular cloak to disguise his fundamental Islamic spirit characterized by his pre-prison poem.

In an article in the Cumhuriyet newspaper, Ahmet Arpad claims that since September 11 Muslim organizations have conquered Germany. He explains that they took advantage of the lacuna of Islam in the West; they know how to use this advantage by infiltrating into intellectual circles, churches, liberal organizations, and other institutions to present a different face of Islam by using Interfaith Dialogue. In the early 90s, Fethullah sent young businessman and students to Germany to open schools and to start businesses. The schools were mostly the elementary level; education was free and very successful. Arpad says that Gulen’s followers were never associated with him. He admits, "If you try to associate them with any kind of religious organization, they threaten you by suing you. This is their kind of trick to counter the charges. Fethullah has spent an enormous amount of unaccounted Euros, but still leaders in the schools deny that they are associated with him" (Cumhuriyet 13 Mar. 2005).

Also, the data presented in an article in Ozgur Politika, notes that Fethullah Gulen’s aim is to start a new Islamic university in Germany besides the high schools, elementary schools, and preschools. He has sent hundreds students overseas to get their Masters and Doctorates in Germany. According to the Ozgur Politika newspaper, Fethullah has sent 500 students to the U.S. since 2001 to get Ph.D.s and Masters degrees (Ozgur Politika 29 Jan. 2001). This estimate is very conservative. In addition, most of those students are getting funds or scholarship from the U.S government.

The noted Middle Eastern historian from Princeton University, Bernard Lewis, ignited the European world when he commented on July 28, 2004, to the conservative Hamburg-based daily Die Welt that Europe would be Islamic by the end of this century "at the very latest" (Qtd. in Caldwell 1). Agreeing with Lewis, a Syrian immigrant and prominent Muslim in Germany, Bassam Tibi, refined the opinion in Welt am Sonntag, "Either Islam gets Europeanized, or Europe gets Islamized." He believes that Europe cannot defend itself against Islam nor steer its direction, but merely can chose between two forms: "The problem is not whether the majority of Europeans is Islamic," he added, "but rather which Islam--sharia Islam or Euro-Islam--is to dominate in Europe" (Qtd. in Caldwell).

Many Muslims recognize Said Nursi for his religious leadership rather than for his Kurdishness. Said Nursi even offered a solution for the Kurdish question to the Ottoman sultan, but the sultan rejected it. Said Nursi wrote a letter to Sultan Abuldulhamid, proposing a solution by suggesting that he open a university in Wan, in Northern Kurdistan (southeastern Turkey), and suggested that the language should be in Turkish, Kurdish, and Arabic because the majority of people who live in Wan are Kurds; Arabic was the language used for religion, and Turkish was the language of government affairs, but the Sultan failed to understand Mullah Saidi. Today the Turkish government seems to be returning to his solution, but whether these initiatives are motivated by Muslims in the current administration who understand Saidi Nursi’s ideology or by the pressure of the European Unions criteria remains unanswered. Even though there is no such Kurdish language in academia in Turkey yet, in the near future the recommendations of Said Nursi will be implemented.

Said Nursi gained his reputation, not for his Kurdish identity, but for his Islamic writings and for his message of spreading Islam over the world, so that first Europe and then the United States would give birth to Islamic nations that would merge into a transnational empire in the future. His prediction from 1908 is becoming a reality with thirty million Muslims living in Europe, with Islamic websites linked to the official national homepages of, for example, Germany’s Federal Foreign Office, and with Fethullah Gulen’s Abant Journalists and Writers Foundation advocating the accession of Turkey into the EU at the European Parliament meeting in Brussels. Europe is close to delivering an Islamic nation.

Works cited

Arpad, Ahmet. Fethullahcilar Almanya’da emin adimlarla... Cumhuriyet 13 Mar. 2005

Germany. CIA Factbook. Apr. 2005.

Christopher Caldwell. Islamic Europe? The Weekly Standard. 10.4

From the 4th Oct. 2004 article, When Bernard Lewis Speaks. (4 Oct. 2004).

CIA World Factbook. Apr. 2005.

Federal Foreign Office.

Gulen Almanya’da Universite Kuruyor. Ozgur Politika. 29 Jan. 2001.

Gulen, Fethullah. Fasildan Fasila 3 .

Saidi Kurdi. Hutbe-i Samiye, 28-32.

---. Kastamonu Lahikasi, 121-32

---. Tari.he-i Hayat, shf. 45.

Yeni Asya, 3 Nov. 2005.

Aland Mizell,
University Of Texas at Dallas
School of Social Science
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Muslim Woman
03-09-2007, 01:23 AM


Salaam/peace,


Originally Posted by Yanal
sorry i don't get this thread can you explain it to me
Wa Salaam


will u pl. visit the link & read the whole article ?


our revert US bro is giving suggestion how it will be possible to make the only Super power an Islamic Nation.......sounds impossible ? May be not if we try hard & if it's a will of Allah . Who ever thought that after 9/11 , many Americans will embrace Islam ? :D

u/we can think more about this possibility & try , try , try :statisfie


....I was attending a meeting of the newly-formed local ICNA group and had never been exposed to the place before. What I saw amazed me. I was elated, in fact!


Children were saying salaams to me on the street and women (in hijab) were walking around and going places leisurely and confidently.


I saw Muslims who were Arab, Black and Bengali. But what took the cake for me was when out of nowhere I heard the adhan outdoors over a loudspeaker. They fought the city council and won the right to do adhan five times a day in the community!

http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/america.html
Reply

NoName55
03-09-2007, 01:24 AM
Europe's Hatred Against Islam
First of all, we should not label someone from the geographical point of view. But every common Muslim believes due to many innocent deaths today that Europeans and Americans hate Muslims and Islam. What is behind this hatred? I tried to dig deep into history to find out the answer but as history has been corrupted, I dig deep into the autobiographies of many who had some background related to Europe and Islam. I found many interesting statements and views of not just common Europeans but many European heads of state.

I am presenting this book (http://qurango.com/europe.html) as a historical and a true logic behind the European hatred against Islam and Muslims. This book was origianlly written by Allama Jalal-ul-Alam and translated by Qazi Abu Salman Mohammad Kafayatullah alongwith Mohammad Tahir Naqqash. My purpose here is not to flame the hatred as the popular saying "hate begets hate, love begets love". In my own quest of finding out the true purpose behind such European hatred, I found none of them to qualify as GOOD one. All of them are usual historical and religio-political lies that got not much logical grounds. Hence all such crimes against humanity committed by European Forces on Muslim lands are based upon the normal historical truth of "might is right" irrespective of its wrong-doings. Since Islam has a built-in Defensive system called "Jihad", hence instead of succeeding in shutting down Islam, Europe's hatred has done a great benefit to raise the ranks of Muslims and the awareness inside Europe and many have started to believe that Europe's biggest religion will be Islam within next 2 or 3 decades whenever someone looks at the short history of Islam in Europe. Islam is not only the fastest growing religion in USA but in Europe too. And since the European identity is at the risk of being taken away by the universal appeal of Islamic ideology, hence the heads of European states have decided to use the Americans and Israelis to suppress Muslims wherever they are worldwide. And they call it a "war on terror" and never admit on public that it is actually a "war on Islam".

Thanks to the Islamic principles, there is no way that Muslims will hate the Europeans in the same way that they hate Muslims. However, Islam is being protected by the "Jihad" against such hatred which is a pillar of Islam. And in performing that Jihad, Islam does not permit its followers to hate the Non-Musilms in return. Instead, it asks Mujahideen to protect the families, wealth, women, children, and elderly of the European, American or Israelis fighting against Islam. The principles of war in Islam are clearly established and peaceful and no such massacres of innocent human beings are allowed as currently being committed by the Europeans and Americans worldwide, especially in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine.

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Skillganon
03-09-2007, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
America, my home, would naturally become an Islamic country one day.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/america.html

Inshallah.
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-09-2007, 01:48 AM


Salaam/peace,

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Sinner
03-09-2007, 01:50 AM
The rise of Islam in America is almost entirely due to immigration. The number of Muslims entering America, will never exceed the number of non-Muslims entering the US, legally or not. America will never become a Islamic country.
Reply

NoName55
03-09-2007, 01:54 AM
someone told me that if we use maths it could take a mere 5 thousand years or so based on current trends of migration
Reply

Count DeSheep
03-09-2007, 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
...The Yemenis formed a master plan and determined to stay together. They set up a fund and slowly bought one house after another, moving Muslim families in and drug-infested kafirs out, until they literally had thousands of Muslims businesses and stores in the heart of the community and bought a huge Catholic church and made it into a beautiful masjid. They even made a small community health care center!

When we were leaving our meeting and walking to the masjid for salat, it was the most beautiful sight: from all directions, men, women and children, of all races, were going to their masjid as a community.

I've never been to Muslim country before, but I'll tell you this much, I felt as if I were in an Islamic country. And this wasn't Egypt or India or Turkey. It was right here - in America
WOW. :uuh:

But I haven't heard a thing about that new alcohol law...Strange. Very odd indeed. What, do they have cops hiding now that jump out and say, "Gotcha!" every time someone tries to buy a beer from the gas station? O.o

How recent is that article?
Reply

Abdul-Raouf
03-09-2007, 01:59 AM
either by immigiration or by conversion ..(anyway good news).....
America will surely become an islamic country one day for sure.........

and its a fact that the conversion of non muslims to islam is at a high rate.......
Reply

Count DeSheep
03-09-2007, 02:00 AM
Originally Posted by NoName55
someone told me that if we use maths it could take a mere 5 thousand years or so based on current trends of migration
Then stop being silly and use Islam instead of math. :statisfie
Reply

Count DeSheep
03-09-2007, 02:03 AM
Originally Posted by Muzammil
either by immigiration or by conversion ..(anyway good news).....
America will surely become an islamic country one day for sure.........

and its a fact that the conversion of non muslims to islam is at a high rate.......
The way America is now makes me thinks that the Islamic Republic of America is far away...>.<
Reply

snakelegs
03-09-2007, 02:10 AM
god save me from theocracy of any kind!
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-09-2007, 02:10 AM


Salaam/peace,



Originally Posted by Count DeSheep
The way America is now makes me thinks that the Islamic Republic of America is far away...>.<
---but not impossible :D

But I haven't heard a thing about that new alcohol law

---it's our brother's hope about future :statisfie

here is the 2nd para.......Sound like fiction? It may be fiction now, but the future is ........
Reply

NoName55
03-09-2007, 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by Count DeSheep
Then stop being silly and use Islam instead of math. :statisfie
had I spoken to you like that I would already have recieved a PM from Admin or a mod

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20th Century Essay:

Islam in America: From African Slaves to Malcolm X
Thomas A. Tweed
University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
©National Humanities Center
When students think of Islam—if they do at all—they might summon an image of Denzel Washington playing a stern and passionate Malcolm X in Spike Lee's 1992 film, or maybe they imagine Louis Farrakhan on the speaker's platform at the Million Man March in 1995. Some might have encountered Middle Eastern Muslims on the nightly news, mostly as "fundamentalists" and "terrorists." A few have met immigrant Muslims in their neighborhood. Muslim students might be among their classmates. But Muslims are more diverse than popular images allow, and American Muslim history is longer than most might think, extending back to the day that the first slave ship landed on Virginia's coast in 1619. It encorporates two groups—Muslims from other countries who migrated to America by force or by choice, and African Americans who created Muslim sects in the twentieth century. Thus, a consideration of the Islamic presence in America provides a new perspective on several important (and familiar) issues that will be used to organize this essay:
  1. What is the history of slavery in the United States?
  2. How have immigrants resisted and accommodated American culture?
  3. What were African Americans' experiences in the northern cities after the Great Migration?
  4. How has African-American Islam addressed race relations since the 1960s?
  5. Is America a Christian nation?
At first, you will need to introduce Islam to your students, and a helpful way to do this is to invite their responses to the word "Muslim." What comes to mind when they hear the word? Write their responses on the board without comment, and then use the list to establish the dominant images of Muslims—for example, as militants, extremists, newcomers. Then you can begin to contest these impressions and establish that Islam is a diverse and long-standing American religion—one that has had a significant presence in the United States.
At this point you will need to introduce the basic beliefs and practices of the world's one billion Muslims, most of whom live in Asia, not in the Middle East as most Americans presume. As in Christianity and Judaism, Islam (which is second only to Christianity in worldwide adherents) includes a number of communities or branches. The two major groups are Sunni Muslims, who constitute about 85 percent of Muslims, and Shii (or Shiite) Muslims, who account for 15 percent of the world's Islamic population. All traditional groups are represented among the five million Muslims in the United States, along with some new movements that have been cultivated on American soil.


Muslims in prayer, Long Island, New York Courtesy Islamic Center of Long Island

Despite their diversity, Muslims have a good deal in common. They look to the Qu'ran— the sacred book that records the message of Allah [God] as it was revealed to his final prophet, Muhammed (A.D. ca. 570-632), and they seek to follow the example (sunna) of the prophet. All accept the Five Pillars of Islam, the basic beliefs and duties of Muslims:
  1. A profession of faith (shahada). All Muslims must proclaim "There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his prophet." Note here that Muhammed is not God in Muslim theology but rather a spokesperson or mouthpiece for the divine.
  2. Prayer (salat). All Muslims pray five times daily while facing the holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia.
  3. Alms (zakat). Faith also means outreach. To give thanks and follow the example of Muhammed, Muslims with the economic means must give alms to those who are less fortunate.
  4. Fasting (sawm or siyam). Muslims who are physically able are to fast from dawn to dusk during the ninth month (Ramadan) of the Islamic calendar.
  5. A pilgrimage (hajj) to Mecca. At least once in their lives, all Muslims who are able must make a pilgrimage to the Great Mosque in the holy city of Mecca, toward which they have knelt while praying five times daily during their lives. (Chapter seventeen of The Autobiography of Malcolm X offers a vivid account of this pilgrimage, which was life-transforming for him. It was on hajj, he recounts, that he first glimpsed the possibility that people of different races could get along.)
Slavery and Islam

A small but significant proportion of African slaves, some estimate 10 percent, were Muslim. You might tell the story of Omar Ibn Said (also "Sayyid," ca. 1770-1864), who was born in Western Africa in the Muslim state of Futa Toro (on the south bank of the Senegal River in present-day Senegal). He was a Muslim scholar and trader who, for reasons historians have not uncovered, found himself captive and enslaved. After a six-week voyage, Omar arrived in Charleston, South Carolina, in about 1807. About four years later, he was sold to James Owen of North Carolina's Cape Fear region. In 1819 a white Protestant North Carolinian wrote to Francis Scott Key, the composer of The Star Spangled Banner, to request an Arabic translation of the Bible for Omar, and apparently Key sent one. Historians dispute how much the African Muslim leaned toward Christianity in his final years, but Omar's notations on the Arabic bible, which offer praise to Allah, suggest that he retained much of his Muslim identity, as did some other first-generation slaves whose names have been lost to us. (Omar's Arabic bible, which has recently been restored, is housed in the library of Davidson College in North Carolina.)


Muslims and Immigration, 1878-1924

Most history courses cover the immigrants who changed America's population throughout the nineteenth century. You might point out these immigrants were not all European or Christian. Many were Chinese and Japanese migrants who practiced Buddhism and other Asian traditions. Thousands of Muslims came as well, and most of these first Islamic immigrants were Arabs from what was then Greater Syria. These Syrian, Jordanian, and Lebanese migrants were poorly educated laborers who came seeking greater economic stability. Many returned, disenchanted, to their homeland. Those who stayed suffered isolation, although some managed to establish Islamic communities, often in unlikely places. By 1920, Arab immigrants worshiped in a rented hall in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and they built a mosque of their own fifteen years later. Lebanese-Syrian communities did the same in Ross, North Dakota, and later in Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Michigan City, Indiana. Islam had come to America's heartland.

The first wave of Muslim immigration ended in 1924, when the Asian Exclusion Act and the Johnson-Reed Immigration Act allowed only a trickle of "Asians," as Arabs were designated, to enter the nation.


African-American Islam in the Urban North

A Euro-American, Mohammed Alexander Webb (1847-1916), proclaimed himself a Muslim at the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago in 1893, but converts have been more prominent among Americans of African descent, especially those who followed the mass migrations of southern blacks to northern cities beginning in the early decades of the twentieth century. Noble Drew Ali established a Black nationalist Islamic community, the Moorish Science Temple, in Newark, New Jersey in 1913. After his death in 1929, one of the movement's factions found itself drawn to the mysterious Wallace D. Fard, who appeared in Detroit in 1930 preaching black nationalism and Islamic faith. Fard founded the Nation of Islam there in the same year. After Fard's unexplained disappearance in 1934, Elijah Muhammed (1897-1975) took over, and he attracted disenchanted and poor African Americans from the urban north. They converted for a variety of reasons, but, for some, the poverty and racism in those cities made the Nation of Islam's message about "white devils" (and "black superiority") plausible.


Race Relations since the 1960s

Elijah Muhammed won an important convert when Malcolm Little (1925-1965) joined the faith in a prison cell. Malcolm X, the name he took to signal his lost African heritage, became a public figure during the 1960s, although he separated himself from the Nation of Islam before his death. After Elijah Muhammed's death in 1975, the movement split. One branch, under the leadership of the fifth son of Elijah Muhammed, moved closer to the beliefs and practices of Islam as it is practiced in most of the world. This group, which would later change its name to the American Muslim Mission, is the largest African-American Islamic movement. The much smaller Nation of Islam, which the American Muslim Mission and other Islamic groups condemn as racist and unorthodox, is much more familiar to most Americans. Many American Muslims would claim that the Nation of Islam, led by Louis Farrakhan, is not representative of either immigrant or convert Islam in the United States.
As you teach the Nation of Islam, you might ask students what the history of African-American Islam since the Great Migration tells us about race relations. Why were Malcolm X and others in northern cities so willing to believe that European Americans were "white devils"? In what sense, you might ask, is the Nation of Islam's sacred story about the origin of whites as the mistake of a black scientist a "truthful" representation of many African Americans' experience?


Muslims and the New Immigrants after 1965

If you are able to reach the post-1965 period in your class, you might reintroduce Muslims in a discussion of demographic changes in contemporary America. Palestinian refugees arrived after the creation of Israel in 1948. More important for the history of American Islam, the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952 relaxed the quota system established in 1924, thereby allowing greater Muslim immigration. The gates opened even more widely after the 1965 revisions of the immigration law. Since then, Muslim migrants have fled oppressive regimes in Egypt, Iraq, and Syria; and South Asian Muslims, as from Pakistan, have sought economic opportunity. By the 1990s, Muslims had established more than six hundred mosques and centers across the United States.


Islamic Cultural Center of New York

Islamic Center of West Virginia

Islamic Center of Long Island Courtesy Muslimsonline.com, the Islamic Cultural Center of New York,and the Islamic Assn. of West Virginia



Is America a Christian Nation?

Toward the end of your discussion of Islam in America, you might raise this final issue concerning religion and national identity. Islam may soon be the second largest American faith after Christianity, if it is not already. Estimates vary widely, and a moderate estimate is five million American Muslims in 1997—more than Episcopalians, Quakers, and Disciples of Christ. When recounting this to students, and recalling the history of Islamic slaves and the early debates about the First Amendment, you might ask students whether America is a Christian nation as some have proclaimed. Could we, you might ask to focus the discussion, elect a Muslim president? If so, would she (while we are imagining, let's get bold!) view this land as a New Israel or take her presidential oath on a Christian Bible, as has been traditional?
Thomas A. Tweed holds a Ph.D. from Stanford University in Religious Studies and is currently the Zachary Smith Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Dr. Tweed is the author of Our Lady of the Exile: Diasporic Religion at a Cuban Catholic Shrine in Miami (Oxford University Press, 1997) and the editor of Retelling U.S. Religious History (California University Press, 1997). He most recently co-edited, with Stephen Prothero, Asian Religions in America: A Documentary History (Oxford University Press, 1999).

Address comments or questions to Professor Tweed through TeacherServe "Comments and Questions."
Reply

Count DeSheep
03-09-2007, 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by NoName55
had I spoken to you like that I would already have recieved a PM from Admin Muhammad.

talk about being consistent :( :cry:
What? Why? Now I feel bad...=(
Reply

Count DeSheep
03-09-2007, 02:15 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
here is the 2nd para.......Sound like fiction? It may be fiction now, but the future is ........
Argh...Next time I should actually read the whole thing...:-[

Originally Posted by snakelegs
god save me from theocracy of any kind!
XD!
Reply

Sinner
03-09-2007, 02:22 AM
and its a fact that the conversion of non muslims to islam is at a high rate......
Where?
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-09-2007, 02:32 AM


Salaam/peace,

Originally Posted by Sinner
Where?
almost everywhere :)

Fast-growing Islam winning converts in Western world

The second-largest religion in the world after Christianity, Islam is also the fastest-growing religion. In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years.

Some scholars see an emerging Muslim renaissance as Islam takes root in many traditionally Christian communities.



Islam has drawn converts from all walks of life, most notably African-Americans. Former NAACP President Benjamin Chavis, who joined the Nation of Islam recently, personifies the trend.

"In societies where you have minorities that are discriminated against, I think they may find an appeal in Islam," said Waleed Kazziha of American University in Cairo.



http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam

Islam the Fastest Growing Religion

50,000 French Accepted Islam In 50 Years: Intelligence - IOL

Thousands Of British Elite Embrace Islam: Study

America: Islam is finding a niche in the West

Islam spreading in Christian South Africa

Islam Attracting Many Survivors of Rwanda Genocide - Washington Post

Mohammed's religion finds a place in Haiti

Islam fastest growing faith in Australia


Where the Moors Held Sway, Allah Is Praised Again - NY Times


http://www.islamawareness.net/Fastest




Reply

AbuAbdallah
03-09-2007, 02:37 AM
salaam,

who joined the Nation of Islam recently
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't count.
Reply

syilla
03-09-2007, 04:41 AM
More U.S. Hispanics Drawn To Islam
Marriage, Post-9/11 Curiosity, Shared Interest In Issues Are Key Reasons


ORLANDO, Fla., Sept. 18, 2006

The trend is a sign that Islam is becoming more Americanized and more indigenous to the country, Bagby says. As Republican positions on issues such as immigration push Muslim Hispanics and blacks in a less conservative direction, Islam could move in the same direction. Muslim Hispanic and black involvement in American politics could demonstrate to Muslims worldwide the virtues of democracy, eventually softening fundamentalists. He believes the Osama bin Ladens of the world are a small minority, and that most fundamentalists are moving toward engagement with the West.

"The more Hispanics and other Americans [who] become Muslim, the stronger and wider the bridge between the Muslim community and the general larger American community," Bagby says. "Their words and approach have some weight because they are a source of pride for Muslims throughout the world."
source
Reply

shible
03-09-2007, 05:08 AM
But i heard that there was more number of muslim converts only after the 9/11 attack.

from our area a muslim brother went for tour on American states for a research on Islam

after his way back he gave us a description of his experience.

and told that on his tour on U.S
he saw about 4 to five people converted to islam.

i asked him whether it was their own will or was it happening due to other reasons, but he said it happened since most of them on the outskirts of US had no knowledge about Islam except what is shown on TV or on radio.

so when they realized the facts the got converted
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-09-2007, 07:08 AM



Salaam/ peace :)



After September 11 - Jewish And Catholic Women Become Muslim - AlJazeera



AlJazeera Interviews some American New Muslim women who became Muslim after 9/11. Aljazeera and FoxNews both interviewed Angela Colins, an ex-Catholic from sunny California.


Safiya, who used to be an American Jew... Lost 8 of her relatives in September 11, however, this did not make her blame Islam for the actions of the perpetrators of September 11.


Instead, she loved Islam and became Muslim. Having studied Islam and the Quran both women found out, that it has little to do with the extremist actions of a few lone people.....


but it gives true meaning to worshipping God alone and not associating any partners with him. It is God's true message to mankind.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1948


.....
For downloading those videos go here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ngela+colin s
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...angela+collins
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...gela+colli ns


Reply

Muslim Woman
03-09-2007, 12:06 PM


Salaam/peace,


A Wave of Conversion to Islam in the U.S. Following September 11


Excerpts from "Muslim American Leaders:



"On Saturday, September 15, I went with my wife and children to the biggest church in Boston, [Trinity Church in] Copley Square, by official invitation of the Islamic Society of Boston, to represent Islam by special invitation of the senators of Boston.


Present were the mayor of Boston, his wife, and the heads of the universities.



There were more than 1,000 people there, with media coverage by one of Boston's main television stations.


We were received like ambassadors. I sat with my wife and children in the front row, next to the mayor's wife. In his sermon, the priest defended Islam as a monotheistic religion, telling the audience that I represented the Islamic Society of Boston."




"After the sermon was over, he stood at my side as I read an official statement issued by the leading Muslim clerics condemning the incident [i.e. the attacks].


The statement explained Islam's stance and principles, and its sublime precepts. Afterwards, I read Koran verses translated into English...



These were moments that I will never forget, because the entire church burst into tears upon hearing the passages of the words of Allah!!"






"Emotion swept over us. One said to me: 'I do not understand the Arabic language, but there is no doubt that the things you said are the words of Allah.'


As she left the church weeping, a woman put a piece of paper in my hand; on the paper was written:


'Forgive us for our past and for our present. Keep proselytizing to us.' Another man stood at the entrance of the church, his eyes teary, and said, 'You are just like us; no, you are better than us.'"



.......The phenomenon of sincere Christians shedding tears as they recognize the truth and beauty of Islam is mentioned in the Qur'an:





And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians.


That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud. When they listen to that which hath been revealed unto the messengers, thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of their recognition of the Truth.


They say: Our Lord, we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses

[Qur'an 5:82-83]



http://sultan.org/articles/convert.html

Reply

Sinner
03-09-2007, 06:56 PM
Misperception #6: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA

I don't know who came up with this phrase. I have not seen any research paper about it. However, what I have seen is its obnoxious usage by the unwise. In fact, 70 percent of converts leave Islam within a few years as documented by Prof. Ilyas Ba Younus.

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/soci...erceptions.asp

Two new studies have found that Muslims in America may number no more than 2.8 million, a figure more than 50 percent lower than what is commonly cited by the media and many Islamic organizations.

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_islam_usa.html

Six million African Muslims leave Islam per year

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...uslims_le.html

More Muslims converted to faith in Jesus Christ over the past decade than at any other time in human history. A spiritual revolution is underway throughout North Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia. As a result, a record number of ex-Muslims are celebrating Christmas this year, despite intense persecution, arrests, assassinations, and widespread church bombings.

http://livingjourney.wordpress.com/2...e-middle-east/

By 2025, nearly half of all Christians will in the world will live in Africa or Latin America, and two-thirds of all Christians will live in Africa, Latin America, or Asia:

http://www.stjohnadulted.org/worldchrist1.htm

The Muezzin call to prayer. But here in France it is no longer reaching all Muslim ears.

Around 15,000 Muslims each year are converting to Christianity - around 10,000 to Catholicism and 5,000 to Protestantism.

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/article...352375&sid=ZNS

2 million ethnic Muslims adopted baptism in Russia while only 2,5 thousand Russians converted to Islam
-
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=513


"More than 10,000 muslims accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour throughout India during the last year"


"There were only 17 christians from Islam in Afganistan on 2001. But there are more than 10,000 believers at present. Every week dozens of baptisms being held there."

"In 1990, there were only three known Christians in Kazakistan and no christians in Uzbekistan, but now more than 15,000 in Kazakistan and 30, 000 in Uzbekistan. There were only 500 Christians in Iran on 1979, but more than one million Iranians believing Jesus Christ today, most of whom meet in underground house churches."

"In Sudan, more than one million have converted since 2000, and some 5 million have become Christians since the early 1990s, despite a radical Islamic regime and an on-going genocide that has killed more than 200,000.

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2006/12/31/...-christianity/

Christianity is also the fastest growing religion in China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China

China observers were surprised this week when they learned a Chinese government religious affairs official estimated the number of Christians in China at 130 million. Up until now, the best guess was about 50 to 80 million Protestants, 20 million Catholics.

http://www.cbn.com/blogs/cwn/011207C...x?option=print
Reply

wilberhum
03-09-2007, 07:27 PM
God save me from America becoming an Islamic Nation.
Muslims can’t even get it right in Muslim countries.
Reply

Sinner
03-09-2007, 07:49 PM
God save me from America becoming an Islamic Nation.
There is no hard evidence that shows Islam is growing in America to any great extent other then by the immigration of Muslims into the US. Studies indicate most converts to Islam in America, leave Islam within two years. Since the Nation of Islam and Islam are lumped together whenever anyone talks about Islam in America, it is impossible to know how many converts actually are converted to Islam instead of the religion invented by one Wallace Dodd Ford.

http://www.answers.com/topic/wallace-fard-muhammad
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/4222/noi.html
Reply

wilberhum
03-09-2007, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Sinner
There is no hard evidence that shows Islam is growing in America to any great extent other then by the immigration of Muslims into the US. Studies indicate most converts to Islam in America, leave Islam within two years. Since the Nation of Islam and Islam are lumped together whenever anyone talks about Islam in America, it is impossible to know how many converts actually are converted to Islam instead of the religion invented by one Wallace Dodd Ford.

http://www.answers.com/topic/wallace-fard-muhammad
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/4222/noi.html
I have no fear of America becoming an Islamic Nation. If the US becomes a Theocracy, it will be a Christian Theocracy. And God save me from America becoming a Christian Theocracy. Like Muslims, there are some Christians that think a theocracy would be wonderful, but they are a minority. (I hope) I don’t want to move to Canada or Mexico.
Reply

snakelegs
03-09-2007, 09:35 PM
actually, as an american, i worry a lot more about the christians than the muslims.
Reply

Sinner
03-10-2007, 12:38 AM
some Christians that think a theocracy
I do not know of a single American Christian who wants a theocracy. For decades the Christians in the US have sat back and did nothing as religious liberty in the country has been eroding. Now that some Christians are fighting back to regain what has been lost, human secularist, gay activist, feminist, people offended by the merest suggestion of the word "Christ" or "God" in the public forum, are crying like babies that some sort of theocracy is being put into place. Nothing of the sort is happening.

http://www.aclj.org/
Reply

wilberhum
03-10-2007, 01:03 AM
I do not know of a single American Christian who wants a theocracy.
Neither do I. That doesn't mean they are not out there. A while back I heard of a group that had a stated agenda of creating a Christian Theocracy.
as religious liberty in the country has been eroding.
Religious Liberty? You mean Religious prevliges?
the merest suggestion of the word "Christ" or "God" in the public forum,
Distorting the facts don't change chage them. It is called seperation of church and state. The further the seperation the better.
Reply

Sinner
03-10-2007, 01:46 AM
Distorting the facts don't change chage them. It is called seperation of church and state. The further the seperation the better.
This is not what the Founding Fathers believed, you should know better then that. Todays courts have greatly distorted the original concept of the "separation of church and state" but this is not the place to get into a debate about it either.
Reply

ManchesterFolk
03-10-2007, 01:56 AM
At the same time the Islamic youth are falling so fast into assimilation and secularism (at least where I am from I see many of them drinking and smoking) that I do not know how Islamic it will be, :p.
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snakelegs
03-10-2007, 02:11 AM
christians are slowly but surely chipping away at our constitution and are infinitely more scary than muslims. they have already made many inroads and are working on others.
we have "faith based inniative" which is gov't give away of $ to christian churches.
we have a president who claims god told him to attack a sovereign nation.
never mind about the muslims - they are not taking over our country any time soon.
oh yeah and thanks for the link. from their website:
"As a non-profit organization, the ACLJ does not charge for its services and is dependent upon God and the resources He provides through the time, talent, and gifts of people who share our concerns and desire to protect our religious and constitutional freedoms."
Reply

Sinner
03-10-2007, 02:20 AM
christians are slowly but surely chipping away at our constitution
Only trying to regain the freedom we had in the past, nothing more.

we have a president who claims god told him to attack a sovereign nation
Proof please.
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-10-2007, 02:34 AM


Salaam/peace,


Originally Posted by Sinner
Misperception #6: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA

mainstream media is anti-Muslim ; so why u think , world media is spreading a positive lie ( if yes it's really a lie ) about Islam ?




WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS



"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..."


HILLARY RODMAN CLINTON, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3


Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. ABCNEWS,

Abcnews.com



"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country." NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4



"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States..." NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1


"Moslems are the world's fastest-growing group..." USA TODAY, The populationreferance bureau, Feb. 17,



1989, p.4A



"Muhummed is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities. " Encyclopedia Britannica


"There are more Muslims in North America then Jews Now." Dan Rathers,

CBSNEWS


"Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America." TIMES MAGAZINE



"Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!" CNN, December 15, 1995




"The religion of Islam is growing faster than any other religion in the world." MIKE WALLACE, 60 MINUTES



"Five to 6 million strong, Muslims in America already outnumber Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Mormons, and they are more numerous than Quakers, Unitarians, Seventh-day Adventists, Mennonites, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christian Scientists, combined.



Many demographers say Islam has overtaken Judaism as the country's second-most commonly practiced religion; others say it is in the passing lane."


JOHAN BLANK, USNEWS (7/20/98)




"In fact, religion experts say Islam is the second-largest religion in the United States... Islam has 5 million to 6 million members, followed by Judaism, with approximately 4.5 million.....


And Islam is believed to be fastest-growing religion in the country, with half its expansion coming from new immigrants and the other half from conversions."

By ELSA C. ARNETT Knight-Ridder News Service



http://www.islamherald.com/html/expl...s_excerpts.htm

Reply

Muslim Woman
03-10-2007, 02:44 AM


Salaam/peace,







America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem.


Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam.


I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color.



...During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept on the same rug - while praying to the same God - with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white.


And in the words and in the deeds of the white Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana.


..With racism plaguing America like an incurable cancer, the so-called “Christian” white American heart should be more receptive to a proven solution to such a destructive problem. Perhaps it could be in time to save America from imminent disaster - the same destruction brought upon Germany by racism that eventually destroyed the Germans themselves.



Malcolm X’s (al-Hajj, Malik al-Shabazz) Letter from Makkah *


Reply

snakelegs
03-10-2007, 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by Sinner
Only trying to regain the freedom we had in the past, nothing more.

Proof please.
in the past, there was no such thing as government cash giveaways to churches for "faith based inniative".
as for bush saying that god told him to attack - i don't have proof at my fingertips, but bush's piety is no secret. neither is his willingness to kill. (i don't really mean to personalize this - the problem is bigger that bush). i don't want to hijack this thread. but i am not alone in objecting to the inroads chrisitans are making to my government.
muslims are not influencing the gov't. - christians are.
and so they are a much much more immediate threat.
Reply

Sinner
03-10-2007, 02:46 AM
Misperception #6: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/soci...erceptions.asp

mainstream media is anti-Muslim
That site is an Islamic one, hardily a mainstream one.


The fastest growing religion (in terms of percentage) is Wicca

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
Reply

Keltoi
03-10-2007, 02:49 AM
Actually, the words "separation of church and state" don't actually exist in the Constitution. America was designed for people to have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. While the framers of the Constitution were purposely vague in reference to a Creator, they were just as, if not more religious, than George W. Bush. The faith-based initiative is not government endorsing a particular denomination of religion, but giving the religious community the support and funds to become more active in social work. If this program was designed exclusively for Christian churches, which it isn't, that might infringe upon the "no establishment of religion" section of the Constitution.
Reply

wilberhum
03-10-2007, 03:00 AM
America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem.
Standard we have the answer to everything. Like Saudi has no problems.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-10-2007, 03:30 AM
No Muslim country can be considered Islamic. Only the heart of a Muslim. The day that ALL Muslims accept an Islamic state in their hearts will such one come about, maybe.
Reply

snakelegs
03-10-2007, 04:23 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Actually, the words "separation of church and state" don't actually exist in the Constitution. America was designed for people to have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. While the framers of the Constitution were purposely vague in reference to a Creator, they were just as, if not more religious, than George W. Bush. The faith-based initiative is not government endorsing a particular denomination of religion, but giving the religious community the support and funds to become more active in social work. If this program was designed exclusively for Christian churches, which it isn't, that might infringe upon the "no establishment of religion" section of the Constitution.
i know it is freedom FROM religion. about the other things you wrote, i would need to do some research.
offhand, i am inclined to think it is much more likely that you are correct and i am wrong because i know that you are much better informed than i am on these things. i've learned quite a bit from your posts.
if my fears are unfounded, that would be great news!
Reply

Asyur an-Nagi
03-10-2007, 04:55 AM
as long as the american govt treat their muslims equally, the idea of them being an islamic nation is not important let alone urgent. (i suppose)
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-10-2007, 07:26 AM


Salaam/peace,


Originally Posted by snakelegs
...
as for bush saying that god told him to attack - i don't have proof at my fingertips......

well , the following statement is available in many forums but i did not look for Bush's official website if he has any....

The Religious Fanatic:

God told me to strike at al Quaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did



Reply

Sinner
03-10-2007, 01:35 PM
America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem.
It appears some Islamic countries have race problems of their own, probably more serious ones then in America -

"Slaves in Saudi

...Anyone who has visited Saudi Arabia knows the racism with which ordinary Saudis treats the brown and black-skinned masses that come for Hajj. Like hundreds of Bangladeshis every year, my parents endured these indignities during their recent pilgrimage. When he returned from Mecca, my father told me, "To them, we will always be miskeen (beggar). Doesn't matter what we do, or where we come from. They see our skin and don't need to see more." If this is how pilgrims are treated, imagine how much worse is the plight of the "Guest Worker." Yet, we Muslims remain silent on these abuses -- after all the Saudis are the keepers of Islam's holiest site, so they cannot possibly be racist!"

http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/07/27/d40727150297.htm


Saudi blogger "The Religious Policemen" on racism:

....up until now, we've been one of the most rabidly racist countries in the world, and totally unconcerned about it. Walk down any Saudi street and ask anybody who looks as though they come from points East, how do the Saudis regard and treat you? Ask the Pakistani taxi driver. Ask the Bangladeshi street-cleaner, in his orange jump-suit, sweeping up the tissues and fast-food boxes that we thoughtfully throw out of our car window as we pass. Best of all, if you get the chance, ask our Indonesian housemaids.

Pakistani blogger Isaac Schroedinger adds:

The "All Muslims are Equal" rhetoric is completely hollow in Saudi Arabia. Non-Saudis in the country don't have a right to own property. The Saudis treated them (labors from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, or the Philippines) with contempt. The Saudis would rather bark at them than speak to them like civilized people. These squalid workers would never utter a word in protest because they knew that in Saudi Arabia it doesn't take much to deport a foreign worker. My dad worked in Saudi Arabia with many Arab colleagues. He often worked on the weekend to show his dedication (read: pick up the slack for incompetent Saudis). Yet, he got paid around half of what the company gave the Saudis. You see, at the very heart of Islam, some Muslims are more equal than others.

http://rezwanul.blogspot.com/2005/11...i-blogger.html
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-10-2007, 02:02 PM


Salaam/peace,


Originally Posted by Sinner
It appears some Islamic countries have race problems of their own, probably more serious ones then in America -
....
Islam is more than 100 % perfect :statisfie , unfortunately we Muslims are not :cry:

In Quran , u won't find any racist verse. In Bible , u will find that Jesus (p) told his comanions NOT to go to gentiles. Jesus (p) called us
( gentiles ) as pig or dog ( i read Bible long ago ....forgot the exact words ).

In OT , it's hard to find any verse that commands soldiers to be kind to war prisoners , women , children . In Quran , u will find that even in war time , if enemies want to hear the words of God , Muslims must allow them that chance & then ' escort' them to a safe place.

If u want to understand Islam , pl. read Quran , don't misunderstand Islam by watching us ( today's horrible bad ' Mozlems )


Reply

Sinner
03-10-2007, 02:14 PM
Muslim woman, good that you brought up the passage in Matthew concerning a woman of Canaan ( Greek by birth according to Mark 7:26 ) being called a "dog". I hope that I can set you straight that Jesus was in no way trying to insult the woman in question.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshiped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not right to take the children's bread, and cast it to dogs.
Mat 15:27 And she said, True, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is your faith: be it unto you even as you will. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Jesus ministry was first to the house of Israel so that prophecy would be fulfilled, but this did not mean He only ministered to Jews.
The word usually translated as "dogs" in this passage, in the original Greek, refers to small animal or a puppy. Because this particular dog had a master, it should be obvious to all that a loved family pet is being referred to so that the term is not being used insultingly. This all begs the question, what did Jesus do? IF Jesus ministry was ONLY to the Jews, He would of sent her away empty handed, but what actually happened? He cured the daughter, and complimented the woman for her great faith. Only two times in the Bible is it mentioned that Jesus compliment anyone on their faith - this Greek woman and a Roman Centurion.
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-10-2007, 02:42 PM


Salaam/peace,



Originally Posted by Sinner

........ but what actually happened? He cured the daughter, .

--- Jesus (p) cured the duaghter after the woman begged more than once , she begged ----- yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. So , she was considered as a dog.....is it racism or not ?


Are Christians allowed to preach their reilgion to gentiles ?

..Only two times in the Bible is it mentioned that Jesus compliment anyone on their faith - this Greek woman and a Roman Centurion.
---umm, what about the companions ? Jesus (p) never praised them ? Anyway , that will be off topic here .
Reply

Bittersteel
03-10-2007, 02:50 PM
US an Islamic nation?God,someone seemed to have lost it.
close this thread,this forum might be targeted for some sort of an extremism.well this is extremism,making the US Islamic.
Reply

Sinner
03-10-2007, 02:52 PM
Jesus did what the lady asked, according to her faith, not account of her begging.

umm, what about the companions ? Jesus (p) never praised them ?
Only once that I can remember but not because of their faith -

Mat 16:15 He said unto them, But whom say you that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
03-10-2007, 04:03 PM
LOL - It'll never happen. Just as the UK won't be an Islamic state either!

Gur Fateh
Reply

Liibaan
03-11-2007, 09:32 PM
Only time will tell, but I see Canada becoming an Islamic state before any other country.
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wilberhum
03-11-2007, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by Liibaan
Only time will tell, but I see Canada becoming an Islamic state before any other country.
You are going to have to wait till the country has a vast majority of Muslims first.
Reply

Keltoi
03-11-2007, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
You are going to have to wait till the country has a vast majority of Muslims first.
Plus, Canada wouldn't be Canada anymore.
Reply

Liibaan
03-11-2007, 10:20 PM
That's OK, whatever it's called, it's still my home.
Reply

Keltoi
03-11-2007, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by Liibaan
That's OK, whatever it's called, it's still my home.
I assume by an "Islamic state", you mean one that is fair and just in its application of theocratic government. Unfortunately, one must be careful what one asks for. The history of theocracy hasn't been a good one.
Reply

don532
03-12-2007, 11:30 PM
Why would even Muslims want the US to be a Muslim state? Does Islam need political domination to survive? The record of theocracy in history, and today, is not good for the people.
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-14-2007, 01:18 PM


Salaam/peace ,




Originally Posted by don532
Why would even Muslims want the US to be a Muslim state? Does Islam need political domination to survive? The record of theocracy in history, and today, is not good for the people.

----To survive , Islam does not need USA , we all need Islam to survive in this world & the life hereafter :) :statisfie



I guess , our revert bro wants to see his country ( US ) as an Islamic nation , so that more non-Muslims can know about Islam & they can be saved.

It will be easier for Muslims to practise Islam openly , US foreign policy will change towards Muslim nations , Palestine will get a chance to live in peace as US's unconditional support for Israel will be stopped etc , etc.




Reply

don532
03-14-2007, 06:09 PM
"It will be easier for Muslims to practise Islam openly , US foreign policy will change towards Muslim nations , Palestine will get a chance to live in peace as US's unconditional support for Israel will be stopped etc , etc."

Muslims already practice openly in the US. I used to live in Indiana. From my back porch, I had a view of a huge mosque built at the intersection of old Indiana 267 and I-70.

The people of the US elect the government here. We believe in freedom of religion. I know the representatives I help elect in the government do not base US policy on a country's religion. It's based on a country's behavior.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-14-2007, 06:30 PM
I think its kinda unfair to change it. Actually id be more than happy if it became Islamic but we are able to practice our religion. So as long as our deen is not interrupted, theres no need. If US was to become one, it will itself. How can we think to make US an Islamic country when our own cant even run as one properly with stupid leaders in power. Think about it.
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-15-2007, 02:36 AM


Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by don532
.....Muslims already practice openly in the US... .


--- haha , i guess , they are not enjoying it in US plane.....so , they want it there , too. :)




6 Imams filed cases against US airlines . They are complaining that to perform prayers , they were held & humiliated .



http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout


I used to live in Indiana. From my back porch, I had a view of a huge mosque
--that's great :statisfie

ever visited the mosque ? :p



The people of the US elect the government here. We believe in freedom of religion. [/QUOTE]

---in many cases , Muslims were treated as criminals until proven innocent.


I know the representatives I help elect in the government do not base US policy on a country's religion. It's based on a country's behavior


--sorry , did not understand it. If a single Israeli kid is murdered by Palestine bombers , it's a world news when many Palestine kids death go unnoticed. Many US leaders believe only Americans & Israelies lives are precious .......palestines are less than human being.


Reply

don532
03-15-2007, 04:16 AM
We were not invited to the mosque, but socialized with some of the Muslims and their children that lived in homes on the property. Our children went to school and played together. Some of them were nice people. Some spent their time criticizing the US.

On the statement about US leaders believing Palestinians are less than human. Please don't associate what is in the press with a US legislator's beliefs. In the US we have a free press. It is not controlled by the government. They tend to report sensational stories that sell papers and magazines. That does not relate directly to the beliefs of the authors of our foreign policy.
Reply

Woodrow
03-15-2007, 04:41 AM
How to Make America an Islamic Nation

Ingredients:

Qur'an
Prophets
Iman


Handle all carefully and mix with love and knowledge. Stir with full submission to the will of Allah(swt)

nurture carefully and truthfully, allow to rise in accordance with the will of Allah(swt).

Serve, with trust and truth. Do not attempt to force feed to anyone.
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-15-2007, 06:29 AM


Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by don532
We were not invited to the mosque ..
--too bad :cry:



but socialized with some of the Muslims ......Some spent their time criticizing the US.
---hahaha, may be nobody told them to ' love it or leave it ' :p



In the US we have a free press. It is not controlled by the government.

uhhh, free press , free press .

U mean the press that told us about WMD in Iraq ? I don't remember any apology from the free press to lied to the world . Journalists of the free press acted as paid liar..... i wanted to write PRO -- but they have some ethics & responsibilies. Mainstream media failed to show any of these.

Reply

justahumane
03-15-2007, 07:35 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

Salaam/peace,



almost everywhere :)

Fast-growing Islam winning converts in Western world

The second-largest religion in the world after Christianity, Islam is also the fastest-growing religion. In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years.

Some scholars see an emerging Muslim renaissance as Islam takes root in many traditionally Christian communities.



Islam has drawn converts from all walks of life, most notably African-Americans. Former NAACP President Benjamin Chavis, who joined the Nation of Islam recently, personifies the trend.

"In societies where you have minorities that are discriminated against, I think they may find an appeal in Islam," said Waleed Kazziha of American University in Cairo.



http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam

Islam the Fastest Growing Religion

50,000 French Accepted Islam In 50 Years: Intelligence - IOL

Thousands Of British Elite Embrace Islam: Study

America: Islam is finding a niche in the West

Islam spreading in Christian South Africa

Islam Attracting Many Survivors of Rwanda Genocide - Washington Post

Mohammed's religion finds a place in Haiti

Islam fastest growing faith in Australia


Where the Moors Held Sway, Allah Is Praised Again - NY Times


http://www.islamawareness.net/Fastest




A piece of very sincere advice for my brothers and sisters out here.

Inspite of being indulge in day dreaming and writing provocative articles plz try to make, ur own so called muslim bretherns and nations, muslims. I remind U the bitter truth that majority of ppls who call themselves muslims are munafiqeen. Convert them first and bring them on true path of Islam. Try to show them the beauty of Islam rather than wasting ur time in producing more munafiq.

I have strong faith that once existing so called muslims leave the path of munafiqism and turn back to Islam..........not only America but all kuffar nations in the world will automatically convert to Islam.

Once muslims themselves start following holy quran, things will become better for them and they wont have to migrate to kuffar nations to find peace and freedom of religion. Holy quran promises it all. But alas, the most read and parroted book has been abandoned by same ppls who swear faith in it. What a grand show of hypocricy.

First make already so called Islamic nations Islamic than explore ways to make America Islamic. U wont have to work hard on it when U are done from ur original job. I assure U all. But can U? Will U? lets see :) .

May ALLAH show U all the true path of Islam. AMEEN.

Thanks and regards.
Reply

Muslim Woman
03-15-2007, 10:40 AM


Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by justahumane
...I have strong faith that once existing so called muslims leave the path of munafiqism and turn back to Islam..........not only America but all kuffar nations in the world will automatically convert to Islam. .

---we ( born Muslims ) are horrible :cry: ; so it's better to invite good non-Muslims to Islam :D so that we ( bad Muslims ) can learn from them :statisfie




they wont have to migrate to kuffar nations to find peace and freedom of religion.
-----ummmmm, many Muslims go to the west to earn more ......i don't think they go there for freedom of religion......in same cases may be .......not in most cases.


Holy quran promises it all. But alas, the most read and parroted book has been abandoned by same ppls who swear faith in it. What a grand show of hypocricy.
--:cry: :cry: :-[ +o(



First make already so called Islamic nations Islamic than explore ways to make America Islamic.

---- hehe , what's wrong if we try to make only Suerpower an Islamic nation ? :)

i liked the recipe of bro woodrow ( uhhhh, so hard to remember the spelling )

Ingredients:

Qur'an
Prophets
Iman

May ALLAH show U all the true path of Islam. AMEEN.

--Ameen............ errrrrrrrrrrrr, u r a Hindu ? Do Hindus say Ameen ?

Reply

cali dude
03-15-2007, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Sinner
The rise of Islam in America is almost entirely due to immigration. The number of Muslims entering America, will never exceed the number of non-Muslims entering the US, legally or not. America will never become a Islamic country.
I sure hope so. But you don't realize that Muslims have lots of kids. So their population rises faster than other. Just compare a family having someone having 5 kids to someone having 2 kids per generation. In 2 generations for example, the first family will have 30 people and the second one would have only 6.

But if US ever became Islamic state, it would be the best reason to leave America.
Reply

Tiger_Stripes
03-24-2007, 04:54 AM
America is not even a Christian nation. So drop your dreams of making America "Islamic."
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-25-2007, 06:30 PM
^^What a nub...:giggling:
Reply

- Qatada -
05-07-2007, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by achnod
A large portion of 'reverts' in the U.S. are prison inmates. Many, I suspect, 'find Islam' solely to change their names to something 'cool' like Shabaaz or Raheem. They know next to nothing about the religion they are 'reverting' to.

And you know that because you've asked them or done some research right? :)
Reply

Amadeus85
05-07-2007, 10:56 PM
America will be muslim nation just after Saudic Arabia will be christian nation ! LOL !
Reply

- Qatada -
05-07-2007, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
America will be muslim nation just after Saudic Arabia will be christian nation ! LOL !

lol :) i think there is no christian nation at all, and its been that way for a few centuries now maybe.
Reply

England
05-07-2007, 11:11 PM
Before that happens I think the right wing parties' popularity will grow.
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-08-2007, 12:09 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
And you know that because you've asked them or done some research right? :)
haha :statisfie

a question came in to mind......why Muslims prisoners are not becoming Christians ?

America will be muslim nation just after Saudic Arabia will be christian nation

LOL , is there any slightest indication of that possibility ?

BBC , CNN ---these are anti-Muslim media , still they have shown news on how Islam is the fastest growing religion in the west ( i m sure , they did not like it at all )........how so many western people ( most of them are women & many religious figures ) became Muslims etc.

I don't remember any single news of Muslims prisoners or Imams in the west or SA are becoming Christians ....why is that ?

Yes , in poor countries many Muslims are becoming Christians because of ....what do u call it '' rice bowl ' ?

**
They know next to nothing about the religion they are 'reverting' to.


--------I know, many bad born Muslims like me have not studied about Islam like our revert bro did in the prison.


Physically Confined but Spiritually Free:

An American Prisoner's Journey to Islam


As I learned the Prayer, a whole new world opened up to me that I had never seen before.



In this world was peace, contentment, and most importantly, a sense of completeness. The lessons that I was learning about Tawheed (Unity and Oneness of God) touched my soul. By the Grace of Allah, and with the help of the Muslims that were in the cellblock with me, I learned very quickly.


...... started using an Arabic/English dictionary to understand the Arabic text of the Qur'an. I had been misled and duped by the translators of the Bible my whole life, so I was highly skeptical of someone else’s translation of the Holy Qur'an.



My goal became to not only read and write Arabic, but also to be able to understand and translate the Book on my own. I had no instructor, but I did have determination, faith in Allah’s Power, and a will to succeed.



I would spend up to 10 hours a day learning the words of Surah 2. As I familiarized myself with the words, I would commit the verses to memory. It was a hard and long process that definitely took its toll on me physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.



I would often pray to Allah to lighten the load of my intensive studies. I did this until I came across the verse in which Allah tells the believers that He has imposed no difficulty upon them in their religion (22:78). This greatly lifted my spirits and gave me the strength to carry on. So, within six months after taking my Shahadah, I was teaching the beginning Arabic class. Al-Hamdu lillah li dhalik (Praise be to Allah for that).

As I became more spiritually aware, I began to see the value of true Islamic knowledge. It is reported in a Tradition: "Seek knowledge even as far as China." Thus, my immediate task became to acquire all of the Islamic knowledge that I could obtain through my limited resources.



I started studying the books of Hadeeth. I became familiar with the different authors of the major canonical books of Traditions. Next, I sought out a deeper and better understanding of the fundamentals of faith.


I strove to recognize the spiritual meanings of the physical acts of worship that we perform everyday. I also turned my attention to the science of Qur'anic exegesis. I studied the works of Ibn Kathir and Jafar As-Saddiq in order to get a richer understanding of the different schools.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...am%2FDIELayout
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thirdwatch512
05-08-2007, 01:45 AM
i don't think islam will ever become majority in america until a Liberal brand of islam is formed. i have a homosexual friend who won't convert to islam simply because he's gay.. but he has told me that if there was a liberal islamic denomination that accepted homosexuals, he would join. so, obviously, people who have been opressed by islam won't join. but if a liberal brand was founded.. it might be different.
Reply

thirdwatch512
05-08-2007, 01:52 AM
in my opinion, they should build one huge shariah nation somewhere where nothng is right now.. maybe khazakistan. seriously here. maybe a chunk of russia, since they have more resources. or maybe somewhere in arabia. who knows, but it needs to have a good economy. then any muslim who wants to live under the shariah can live there. that way the muslims will be happy, and so will the non muslims.

i know a muslim dude from denmark who tells me that if a true islamic nation were established, europe would lose at least 70% of its islamic population, because they would move there. so why is it so hard for an islamic nation to be started!!

i must say though.. malaysia is an ideal shariah for many people. it's more liberal, which i LOVE about it
Reply

Chiteng
05-08-2007, 04:53 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I assume by an "Islamic state", you mean one that is fair and just in its application of theocratic government. Unfortunately, one must be careful what one asks for. The history of theocracy hasn't been a good one.
There is no chance. I would rather die than live in a Theocratic state.
And I am hardly alone. In addition, you may have noticed that the
VAST majority of immigrants to the USA are CATHOLIC. ROMAN CATHOLIC.

You truely imagine they will simply convert?

Your desire would cause civil war.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-08-2007, 07:44 AM
The probality that USA ill ever become islamic country is the same as probability that Saudic Arabia ever boceomes a christian majority country.
Let's better stop this funny dreams and wishfull wishes.
Lets be more realistic people.
Regards to all you.
Reply

Muezzin
05-08-2007, 08:23 AM
Just deleted a buttload of off-topic posts. Iran, Iraq and WMD have about as much in common with the topic as Neo does with Mr T.
Reply

yigiter187
05-08-2007, 08:25 AM
Of Course Vİa Educatİon Vİa Founding So Many Muslİm Schools In Amerİca
Reply

Skavau
05-08-2007, 08:36 AM
BBC , CNN ---these are anti-Muslim media , still they have shown news on how Islam is the fastest growing religion in the west ( i m sure , they did not like it at all )........how so many western people ( most of them are women & many religious figures ) became Muslims etc.

I don't remember any single news of Muslims prisoners or Imams in the west or SA are becoming Christians ....why is that ?
I'm not sure about you, but if I was a Muslim in Saudia Arabia and then converted - I'd keep my mouth shut about it and make plans to leave as soon as possible.

And much of the increase of Islamic numbers is due to high birth rates.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-08-2007, 08:36 AM
Originally Posted by yigiter187
Of Course Vİa Educatİon Vİa Founding So Many Muslİm Schools In Amerİca
In Saudi Arabia there are already 1 million christians and growing :thumbs_up
Reply

- Qatada -
05-08-2007, 12:43 PM
We don't need to 'give up' our morals like the people of the other religions did, sorry. :) Because it ended up that they lost their religion in the process, and threw the scripture behind their backs.


Islaam means submission to God, and Islaam does not submit to the people - rather the people submit themselves to God.



Regards.
Reply

NobleMuslimUK
05-08-2007, 02:06 PM
:sl:
Very soon InshAllah the whole western hemisphere will submit to Islam. As it happens the elders in the western society are very neglected or not acknowledged at all. When they die their ideals of westernism or christianity die with them. Leaving the younger generations in complete jahiliyah (state of ignorance), how long before that ignorance destroys them, and Allah willing most of them seek peace in the only place it can be found and thats in Islam.
I have seen white/black (non-muslims) people from school that I never really met after school until I saw a few of them turn up in the local mosques Mashallah. Islam is flourishing in the land of ignorance and social breakdown, the west.

Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

- Qatada -
05-08-2007, 02:10 PM
:wasalamex


That's really kool, and the praise is for Allaah due to that. Whoever is sincere to find out the purpose of their life - Allaah will guide them.


It reminds me of this hadith:


Allaah Almighty said:

“O My slaves, all of you are astray except those whom I guide, so ask Me for guidance, and I will guide you. O My slaves, all of you are hungry except those whom I feed, so ask me for food and I will feed you. O My slaves, all of you are naked except those whom I clothe, so ask Me for clothing and I will clothe you. … O My slaves, if the first of you and the last of you, your humans and your jinn, were to stand on a single plain and ask of Me and I were to give each one what he asked for, that would not cause any loss to Me greater than what is lost when a needle is dipped into the sea.”

Narrated by Muslim (2577).
Reply

Amadeus85
05-08-2007, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
:sl:
Very soon InshAllah the whole western hemisphere will submit to Islam. As it happens the elders in the western society are very neglected or not acknowledged at all. When they die their ideals of westernism or christianity die with them. Leaving the younger generations in complete jahiliyah (state of ignorance), how long before that ignorance destroys them, and Allah willing most of them seek peace in the only place it can be found and thats in Islam.
I have seen white/black (non-muslims) people from school that I never really met after school until I saw a few of them turn up in the local mosques Mashallah. Islam is flourishing in the land of ignorance and social breakdown, the west.

Allah SWT knows best.
You just miss that nowadays western christians make up minority among whole Christian Church. It is estimated that in 2025 western christians (USA,Europe,Australia,) will make up just 20 % of all christians in the world. The majority of christians will be those from Africa,Asia and Latin America.
Christian beliefe comes back to the place where it was born -to Asia, and also expanding fast in Africa( where is the biggest religion nowadays).
So christianity will survive without Europe, but will Europe survive without christianity? I am pessimist about that.
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
You just miss that nowadays western christians make up minority among whole Christian Church. It is estimated that in 2025 western christians (USA,Europe,Australia,) will make up just 20 % of all christians in the world. The majority of christians will be those from Africa,Asia and Latin America.
Christian beliefe comes back to the place where it was born -to Asia, and also expanding fast in Africa( where is the biggest religion nowadays).
So christianity will survive without Europe, but will Europe survive without christianity? I am pessimist about that.
I've seen the type of missionary work being done in asia and africa. You don't get true believers when you give food and aid in exchange for their faith.

A lecturers once said it best. These christians are going there to convert them while these people here are converting by themselves. Pretty soon we'll have poor, uneducated , provety based christians (africa/asia) and educated, well estabalished Muslims (west). So with these exchange for population of faiths, who comes out head?
Reply

TABS19
05-08-2007, 03:51 PM
I really don't understand this.

Spend your time praying to Allah for the life he has given you instead of thinking how to make America an Islamic country.
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by TABS19
I really don't understand this.

Spend your time praying to Allah for the life he has given you instead of thinking how to make America an Islamic country.
Perhaps you should go read the very first article...
Reply

Amadeus85
05-08-2007, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
I've seen the type of missionary work being done in asia and africa. You don't get true believers when you give food and aid in exchange for their faith.

A lecturers once said it best. These christians are going there to convert them while these people here are converting by themselves. Pretty soon we'll have poor, uneducated , provety based christians (africa/asia) and educated, well estabalished Muslims (west). So with these exchange for population of faiths, who comes out head?
Ohh believe me that without western christians Europe won't be well established and powerfull, and educated. We created Europe's power. Without us it will be gone as well.Without us Europe will look like nowadays Pakistan, Morroco or Algeria.
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Ohh believe me that without western christians Europe won't be well established and powerfull, and educated. We created Europe's power. Without us it will be gone as well.Without us Europe will look like nowadays Pakistan, Morroco or Algeria.
I think you are a bit mistaken. Europe power rose becuase of Islam and Muslims. while Europe was in the dark ages, Muslims were in golden era. Europeans burned books while Muslims translated them from greek and other languages as well as make advancements of their own. Islam helped europe get out of the dark ages. And US, well it is a child of europe, where else would it usher from?

Ever read A is for Arabs?
Reply

wilberhum
05-08-2007, 04:26 PM
Europe power rose becuase of Islam and Muslims
Exactly, Europe became powerful so they could throw out the invading Muslims.
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Exactly, Europe became powerful so they could throw out the invading Muslims.
you're joking right?
Are you going to throw out your own citizens, do you even know Muslims are from all color and nationalities, including europeans and americans?
Reply

Chiteng
05-08-2007, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
you're joking right?
Are you going to throw out your own citizens, do you even know Muslims are from all color and nationalities, including europeans and americans?
Yes that really helped against the Serbs
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 04:40 PM
Some interesting vidoes of your everyday citizens....

Turning Muslim in Texas

Turning Muslim in Australia!?!

British Woman Turns To Islam

Americans Turn To Islam

Originally Posted by Chiteng
Yes that really helped against the Serbs
I guess you support genocide...
Reply

Amadeus85
05-08-2007, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
I think you are a bit mistaken. Europe power rose becuase of Islam and Muslims. while Europe was in the dark ages, Muslims were in golden era. Europeans burned books while Muslims translated them from greek and other languages as well as make advancements of their own. Islam helped europe get out of the dark ages. And US, well it is a child of europe, where else would it usher from?

Ever read A is for Arabs?
Well well i heard this story for dozens of time, but i am afraid that in this point you are mistaken dear islamirama.

First of all you pay too much attention to muslim influence on Europe, while it was more than 1000 years ago !
Of course Arabs translated Aristotle works from greek, and brought numbers invented in India(!) to Europe, but only this didnt make Europe such succesfull and well established nowadays.
Muslim influence on Europe took time more than 1000 years ago ! It wasnt greater than for example indian or chinise influence.
Its true that in very early medievel europeans were quite barbaric and not educated, but dear mister just look how those barbarians developed during the next ages !
You only look at what hapenned in very early middle ages, but see what hapenned in next years.
See that since 12 th and 13 th century europeans developed much more than muslim civilization.
Just look how dynamic and rich Europe was in 15 th, 16 th, 17 th, 18 th, 19 th century ! And what was the condition of muslim civilization then? Poor Rather.
I dont want to be rude but please remind me what muslims invented sighnificant during the last 1000 years? Why their development stopped so quickly?
And since middle ages, we westerners invented-

-Planes,
-Computers,
-Ships,
-Television,
-Radio,
-Internet,
-Laser,
-Cars,
-modern medicine and cures (we can transplant heart now!)
-Mobile phones,
-CD's,
-modern weapon( tanks,machine guns, rockets,),

Western world is represented by such people like-
Einstein,Beethoven,Mozart, Shakespeare,Leonardo da Vinci,
Michael Angelo,Bach,Copernicus,Dante,Machiavelli,Rafaello, Thomas More,Galileo Galilei,John Locke,Voltaire,Rousseau,Charles Darvin,Giuseppe Verdi,Pasteur,van Gogh !

It wasn't muslim people, they were all christians, europeans.

We sent man at Moon ! We flew to space !

We created modern science and philosophy.

Without us, Europe would never be such succesfull.
Reply

Chiteng
05-08-2007, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Some interesting vidoes of your everyday citizens....

Turning Muslim in Texas

Turning Muslim in Australia!?!

British Woman Turns To Islam

Americans Turn To Islam



I guess you support genocide...
No. But I certainly would fight if the choice was theocratic vs secular.
Reply

Chiteng
05-08-2007, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Sinner
There is no hard evidence that shows Islam is growing in America to any great extent other then by the immigration of Muslims into the US. Studies indicate most converts to Islam in America, leave Islam within two years. Since the Nation of Islam and Islam are lumped together whenever anyone talks about Islam in America, it is impossible to know how many converts actually are converted to Islam instead of the religion invented by one Wallace Dodd Ford.

http://www.answers.com/topic/wallace-fard-muhammad
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/4222/noi.html
And if they insist on being obnoxious, we can always close the borders
to Islamics. Just like we did to the Japanese in the 30's.

If you cant play nice in my home, you are not welcome.
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Well well i heard this story for dozens of time, but i am afraid that in this point you are mistaken dear islamirama.

First of all you pay too much attention to muslim influence on Europe, while it was more than 1000 years ago !
Of course Arabs translated Aristotle works from greek, and brought numbers invented in India(!) to Europe, but only this didnt make Europe such succesfull and well established nowadays.
Muslim influence on Europe took time more than 1000 years ago ! It wasnt greater than for example indian or chinise influence.
Its true that in very early medievel europeans were quite barbaric and not educated, but dear mister just look how those barbarians developed during the next ages !
You only look at what hapenned in very early middle ages, but see what hapenned in next years.
See that since 12 th and 13 th century europeans developed much more than muslim civilization.
Just look how dynamic and rich Europe was in 15 th, 16 th, 17 th, 18 th, 19 th century ! And what was the condition of muslim civilization then? Poor Rather.
I dont want to be rude but please remind me what muslims invented sighnificant during the last 1000 years? Why their development stopped so quickly?
And since middle ages, we westerners invented-

-Planes,
-Computers,
-Ships,
-Television,
-Radio,
-Internet,
-Laser,
-Cars,
-modern medicine and cures (we can transplant heart now!)
-Mobile phones,
-CD's,
-modern weapon( tanks,machine guns, rockets,),

Western world is represented by such people like-
Einstein,Beethoven,Mozart, Shakespeare,Leonardo da Vinci,
Michael Angelo,Bach,Copernicus,Dante,Machiavelli,Rafaello, Thomas More,Galileo Galilei,John Locke,Voltaire,Rousseau,Charles Darvin,Giuseppe Verdi,Pasteur,van Gogh !

It wasn't muslim people, they were all christians, europeans.

We sent man at Moon ! We flew to space !

We created modern science and philosophy.

Without us, Europe would never be such succesfull.
It is true that the west has made great thrives and achievements. But lets not forget who laid the foundation for them to build on. Here's a few words from a CEO of HP on this very topic.

As for showing you Muslim advancements in the last 1000yrs. Perhaps you should limit that to 400yrs only. Becuase here's some from The Islamic World to 1600

2007 - 1600 = 407yrs

so the question now is, show you something Muslims have advanced in, in the last 400yrs?

Have you heard of a little city called Dubai? It has brokent just about every record in the world with their mega projects and that's just one tiny little city with less a million population. I'm sure if you look a bit harder, you will find advancements in many fields by Muslims. These Muslims are not just limited to muslim world only.

I think you'll find this interesting as well - 1001 inventions
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by Chiteng
And if they insist on being obnoxious, we can always close the borders
to Islamics. Just like we did to the Japanese in the 30's.

If you cant play nice in my home, you are not welcome.
It's amazing how people can be so blind and ignorant to the facts in front of them....


Turning Muslim in Texas

Turning Muslim in Australia!?!

British Woman Turns To Islam

Americans Turn To Islam
Reply

Amadeus85
05-08-2007, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
It is true that the west has made great thrives and achievements. But lets not forget who laid the foundation for them to build on. Here's a few words from a CEO of HP on this very topic.

As for showing you Muslim advancements in the last 1000yrs. Perhaps you should limit that to 400yrs only. Becuase here's some from The Islamic World to 1600

2007 - 1600 = 407yrs

so the question now is, show you something Muslims have advanced in, in the last 400yrs?

Have you heard of a little city called Dubai? It has brokent just about every record in the world with their mega projects and that's just one tiny little city with less a million population. I'm sure if you look a bit harder, you will find advancements in many fields by Muslims. These Muslims are not just limited to muslim world only.

I think you'll find this interesting as well - 1001 inventions


Ok ok but you must admit that only Dubai is rather nothing much in comparission to the western inventions that i mentioned before. :)
And as i said before, the fundaments for western civilizations are- christian religion, ancient greek philisophy and roman law. And islam was only a small incident in Europe history, lets dont pay too much attention to muslim contribution to european civilization.It is not bigger that chinese or indian influence.
It's hard to believe for me that without muslim occupation of Spain we would not have Einstein, Shakespeare, Mozart, van Gogh or Copernicus:)
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Ok ok but you must admit that only Dubai is rather nothing much in comparission to the western inventions that i mentioned before. :)
And as i said before, the fundaments for western civilizations are- christian religion, ancient greek philisophy and roman law. And islam was only a small incident in Europe history, lets dont pay too much attention to muslim contribution to european civilization.It is not bigger that chinese or indian influence.
It's hard to believe for me that without muslim occupation of Spain we would not have Einstein, Shakespeare, Mozart, van Gogh or Copernicus:)
You have to admit the western inventions you mentioned would not have been made possible had those people not had something to build upon. Just imagine how much the world could do without algebra, how go to space without astronomy. I"m not saying Europe was a dumb kid that had to be taught everything, just that give credit where its due. Islamic civlization gave Europe the building blocks to get to where they are today. The CEO of HP makes that quite clear. And now the west is well advanced in the technology, so Muslim world is taking from the West what they can in addition to their own contributions. It's wrong on anybody's part to think they are in the world today on their own. We all are here today by borrowing from each other.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-08-2007, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
It's wrong on anybody's part to think they are in the world today on their own. We all are here today by borrowing from each other.
Thats right, i agree with you as alghebra and astronomy were studied also in ancient Mezopothamia ( pre-islamic times) and ancient Egypt ( pre islamic times)

:)
Reply

islamirama
05-08-2007, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Thats right, i agree with you as alghebra and astronomy were studied also in ancient Mezopothamia ( pre-islamic times) and ancient Egypt ( pre islamic times)

:)
astronomy yes, algebra no. The word itself stems from the arabic word "al-jabr," :)
Reply

Muezzin
05-08-2007, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by Chiteng
And if they insist on being obnoxious, we can always close the borders
to Islamics. Just like we did to the Japanese in the 30's.

If you cant play nice in my home, you are not welcome.
First, that was uncalled for in light of the post you quoted.

Second, if you insist on being xenophobic, at least get the noun right. It's 'Muslims' not 'Islamics'.

Also General Notice

This topic is going off on a tangent and will be locked if it continues on it for any significant amount of time.
Reply

guyabano
05-09-2007, 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
This topic is going off on a tangent and will be locked if it continues on it for any significant amount of time.
:? again mathematic expression ? :D
Reply

rania2820
05-09-2007, 08:46 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

Salaam/peace,


:giggling: :giggling: :giggling:


in another forum , a Christian became so angry , he threated to complain to FBI / related org about our revert American bro.

:p


LOL!
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-09-2007, 12:31 PM
:sl:


Originally Posted by rania2820
LOL!
hehehe , ya , funny :p

someone suggested here why bother about make America an Islamic nation......why not ? If only super power in the earth becomes as Islamic nation , surely it will be a great help for Muslim ummah.

At least , hopefully no one will attck Muslim majority countries one by one.
Reply

islamirama
05-09-2007, 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:




hehehe , ya , funny :p

someone suggested here why bother about make America an Islamic nation......why not ? If only super power in the earth becomes as Islamic nation , surely it will be a great help for Muslim ummah.

At least , hopefully no one will attck Muslim majority countries one by one.
:w:

US probably will be like turkey before it becomes like saudi. Turkey is 98% muslims but ruled by few secular extremists. Besides, US president always has been anglo-saxon white male. Never a colored man and never a woman, heck Muslim countries like paki and bengal have had PMs already. And Allah is the source of All power, and kuffars attack Muslim lands becuase Allah has allowed it. He promised us victory when we return to him, and humiliation and defeat when we abandon this deen.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-09-2007, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
:w:

US probably will be like turkey before it becomes like saudi. .

LOL !

Saudi Arabia probably will be like France, before it changes into such conservatine christian nation like USA. :D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-09-2007, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
LOL !

Saudi Arabia probably will be like France, before it changes into such conservatine christian nation like USA. :D
and bin laden will probably turn into a fat dumb man before turning into bush?

lol ;D
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-09-2007, 03:57 PM
^^:lol:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply

Amadeus85
05-09-2007, 03:59 PM
Hehe, good jokes .
Reply

abdil han
05-14-2007, 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
See that since 12 th and 13 th century europeans developed much more than muslim civilization.
Just look how dynamic and rich Europe was in 15 th, 16 th, 17 th, 18 th, 19 th century ! And what was the condition of muslim civilization then? Poor Rather.
Without us, Europe would never be such succesfull.
how can u say that in 12th ,13th cen europeans were developed much more than muslims?! there was no (even) toilet in Versaile Palace till 17th century...n they were killing sick people,be coz they didnt know micro organisms who makes people ill...europe learnt how to heal sick people from muslims in andulus and in seljuck/ottomans...

an easy example;Ottomans began to use guns in 1390s,europeans began much later,they tried to protect their cities by city walls till 1453! (15th century)...

about the 15th,16th ,17th centuries development; yes thats right,europeans discovered far lands and invaded those lands,killed n slaughtered those people,enslaved them,brought their resources to europe n became rich...this is ur development truth...and now you are talking about human rights,democracy,and such things...

u enslaved more than half of the world...and now africa is dying of hunger,
just be coz of your ancestors...and tried to enslaved us (ottomans) in the end but thank God you couldnt...dont you know how we won all those battles in ww1 n war of independance? europeans were developed n they had the most developed weapons to use against us,but our poor soldiers who had old,less developed arms, won those battles,,,

thats true that we were poor in late times,but the main reason for this poor conditions were just europeans again,it s hard to fight against all of them,they were attacking not as 1 country,we fought against britain(with ANZACs n Indians too),france,russia,greece,serbs,bulgarians,italian s at the same time and it was not easy...

and
we saw how human you are in serbia,in the middle of europe,100 000 muslims were killed by christian serbs...but developed n human care europe didnt do anythng to stop serbs for 2 years...but 3000 people died in 9/11 and developed world attacked afganistan first n irak after immediately! without certain proofs...(dont get me wrong,i m not approving that 9/11 attack,i care people without looking their religion or nationalities and i felt sad for them)...

anyway,i m little angry for all these i guess,,

peace all
Reply

Muezzin
05-14-2007, 10:36 AM
As fascinating as this stuff about inventions is, it doesn't really have much to do with the topic, though there are existing threads discussing the subject.
Reply

Keltoi
05-14-2007, 01:44 PM
The U.S. won't be an Islamic nation, and if it ever, theoretically, turned into one, it wouldn't be the U.S. anymore. I'm not saying this because I'm xenophobic or have some dislike of Muslims. The foundation of the U.S. is in secular representative government. People call the U.S. a Christian nation sometimes, but the truth is that it isn't. There is a Christian majority in the voting population, but that doesn't equate to being a "Christian nation". Let us say for the sake of argument that in 200 years, Islam is the dominant faith in the U.S. voting population. If that were the case, and if the integrity of the secular nature of the government and its institutions remained intact, I wouldn't have a problem with it. What I would have a problem with is probable transformation of the U.S. from a country of secular law to one of theocracy. In that case it wouldn't be the U.S. any longer.
Reply

islamirama
05-14-2007, 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
The U.S. won't be an Islamic nation, and if it ever, theoretically, turned into one, it wouldn't be the U.S. anymore. I'm not saying this because I'm xenophobic or have some dislike of Muslims. The foundation of the U.S. is in secular representative government. People call the U.S. a Christian nation sometimes, but the truth is that it isn't. There is a Christian majority in the voting population, but that doesn't equate to being a "Christian nation". Let us say for the sake of argument that in 200 years, Islam is the dominant faith in the U.S. voting population. If that were the case, and if the integrity of the secular nature of the government and its institutions remained intact, I wouldn't have a problem with it. What I would have a problem with is probable transformation of the U.S. from a country of secular law to one of theocracy. In that case it wouldn't be the U.S. any longer.

I have to disagree. Whether you become a priest, a serial killer, or a jungle man, you still are “bob”. US will still be US (united States) and that is a fact. As for what kind of US it will be depends on it’s residents. Today it is a Christian nation regardless of what one may say. All the holidays are Christianity based, Christmas, Good Friday, and Easter just a few example. The assemblies in D.C always start with a prayer from the Bible. The people that take oat or are sworn in put their hands on the bible. Look at all the specials of promoting Christian via movies and cartoons during holidays. How many other religions get such viewing? Any special done Ramadan? Bush himself claims to be talking to God and calls himself a strong Christian believer. Every person in congress is Christian (and jews). So it is a Christian nation by every sense of it. And inshallah it will become a Muslim nation one day, and not by Muslims invading and taking over it. But the very citizens that are Christians will convert to islam more and more till the majority of Americans are Muslims rather then Christians or other faith. It will still be the same US and the same people, but the dominate faith will not be the same. Perhaps maybe foreign policies will be more friend and unbias towards Muslims and others that are not “allies” of the US. And perhaps then we won’t see turmoil in the world as much.
Reply

Keltoi
05-14-2007, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
I have to disagree. Whether you become a priest, a serial killer, or a jungle man, you still are “bob”. US will still be US (united States) and that is a fact. As for what kind of US it will be depends on it’s residents. Today it is a Christian nation regardless of what one may say. All the holidays are Christianity based, Christmas, Good Friday, and Easter just a few example. The assemblies in D.C always start with a prayer from the Bible. The people that take oat or are sworn in put their hands on the bible. Look at all the specials of promoting Christian via movies and cartoons during holidays. How many other religions get such viewing? Any special done Ramadan? Bush himself claims to be talking to God and calls himself a strong Christian believer. Every person in congress is Christian (and jews). So it is a Christian nation by every sense of it. And inshallah it will become a Muslim nation one day, and not by Muslims invading and taking over it. But the very citizens that are Christians will convert to islam more and more till the majority of Americans are Muslims rather then Christians or other faith. It will still be the same US and the same people, but the dominate faith will not be the same. Perhaps maybe foreign policies will be more friend and unbias towards Muslims and others that are not “allies” of the US. And perhaps then we won’t see turmoil in the world as much.
As I said, the U.S. is a system of government. People that serve in the government are majority Christian, but they aren't placed their to rule over the nation with a theocracy. If Muslims somehow became a majority in the U.S., it would be highly unlikely that the government would remain devoted to the same principles of individual freedom that America was founded upon. Yes, that is partly because of the Christian nature of the founding fathers and their political philosophies, but I also believe a Muslim majority would more than likely push for more law based on Muslim faith. I could be wrong, perhaps a Muslim majority would be content to adhere to the limits of the Constitution. Somehow I doubt it though.
Reply

islamirama
05-14-2007, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
As I said, the U.S. is a system of government. People that serve in the government are majority Christian, but they aren't placed their to rule over the nation with a theocracy. If Muslims somehow became a majority in the U.S., it would be highly unlikely that the government would remain devoted to the same principles of individual freedom that America was founded upon. Yes, that is partly because of the Christian nature of the founding fathers and their political philosophies, but I also believe a Muslim majority would more than likely push for more law based on Muslim faith. I could be wrong, perhaps a Muslim majority would be content to adhere to the limits of the Constitution. Somehow I doubt it though.
These muslims wont' be coming from another place or something. It'll be the same americans who once were christians (the intial statement of the article). We already have laws based on christianity. Laws based on islam won't be much different. Look at muslim nations, they have islamic laws and democracy. Even if laws are made to be more Muslim friendly, that doesn't mean non-Muslims will be forced to obey them (like no alcohol vs 21 age). Also, i don't think it would matter at that point becuase a nation is representative of it's people, and what the majority want will take place...choice of the people, democracy?

besides, if there's a 3 day weekend (friday off also for Muslims), i don't you would be complaining :)
Reply

Keltoi
05-14-2007, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
These muslims wont' be coming from another place or something. It'll be the same americans who once were christians (the intial statement of the article). We already have laws based on christianity. Laws based on islam won't be much different. Look at muslim nations, they have islamic laws and democracy. Even if laws are made to be more Muslim friendly, that doesn't mean non-Muslims will be forced to obey them (like no alcohol vs 21 age). Also, i don't think it would matter at that point becuase a nation is representative of it's people, and what the majority want will take place...choice of the people, democracy?

besides, if there's a 3 day weekend (friday off also for Muslims), i don't you would be complaining :)
If the U.S. still recognizes the authority and limits granted to government by the U.S. Constitution I wouldn't have a problem with it. We aren't simply a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.
Reply

islamirama
05-14-2007, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
If the U.S. still recognizes the authority and limits granted to government by the U.S. Constitution I wouldn't have a problem with it. We aren't simply a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.
It'll be whatever American Muslims make it, only future will tell.
Reply

Muezzin
05-14-2007, 07:15 PM
What Keltoi is saying is that the US is fundamentally about the separation of church and state. Thus, while certain religions might dominate through sheer quantity, if they legislate according to religious edicts, the US will lose its essence and in that sense will cease to exist.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just trying to clarify it.
Reply

Keltoi
05-14-2007, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
What Keltoi is saying is that the US is fundamentally about the separation of church and state. Thus, while certain religions might dominate through sheer quantity, if they legislate according to religious edicts, the US will lose its essence and in that sense will cease to exist.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just trying to clarify it.
Yes, that is what I'm trying to say. U.S. laws and legislation are limited by the authority given to Congress and the president in the Constitution. As a consequence we aren't simply a "mob rules" democracy, but one based on the foundation of secular law and limited government.
Reply

islamirama
05-14-2007, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Yes, that is what I'm trying to say. U.S. laws and legislation are limited by the authority given to Congress and the president in the Constitution. As a consequence we aren't simply a "mob rules" democracy, but one based on the foundation of secular law and limited government.
I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is that despite it being secular in nature, it is still heavely influenced by christian based rulers at all levels. What laws are made and policies dictated and what not is done from a christian based perspective. And when that group is replaced by Muslim. Then the gov't can still be the same secular gov't with secular law and limited gov't but it will have more american muslim influence then american christian do to this majority faith shift.

For example, Maybe US will stop giving israel billions in aid every year and hi tech weapons and turn blind eye to everythig israel does. Maybe their policies will be more clear and fair rather then bias and prejudical. Maybe they will introduce stipends for new mothers and longer time off to be with the baby. I"m not talking about gov't change here, same gov't can still be in place but the people representing it will bring new and different ideas to run it.
Reply

Keltoi
05-14-2007, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is that despite it being secular in nature, it is still heavely influenced by christian based rulers at all levels. What laws are made and policies dictated and what not is done from a christian based perspective. And when that group is replaced by Muslim. Then the gov't can still be the same secular gov't with secular law and limited gov't but it will have more american muslim influence then american christian do to this majority faith shift.

For example, Maybe US will stop giving israel billions in aid every year and hi tech weapons and turn blind eye to everythig israel does. Maybe their policies will be more clear and fair rather then bias and prejudical. Maybe they will introduce stipends for new mothers and longer time off to be with the baby. I"m not talking about gov't change here, same gov't can still be in place but the people representing it will bring new and different ideas to run it.
Well, besides the political statements that I don't particular agree with, I don't really find anything about your theory that I disagree with. I'm sure if Muslims did become a majority in the U.S. there would be obvious changes in political and civil direction. As long as it stays within the bounds of constitutional law it would still be the U.S., regardless of the changes.
Reply

islamirama
05-14-2007, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Well, besides the political statements that I don't particular agree with, I don't really find anything about your theory that I disagree with. I'm sure if Muslims did become a majority in the U.S. there would be obvious changes in political and civil direction. As long as it stays within the bounds of constitutional law it would still be the U.S., regardless of the changes.
Most of the Constiution is based on christianity, and most of the christianity agrees with Islam. Bill of rights, i dont' think you'll see them disappear. Today you can't even whisper that somebody should kill bush without having the secrete service giving much room to breathe. During Islamic rule, you could get away directly threatening the ruler in his face with such a thing. So I think lot of changes will take but i think it will be all for good. Some may not like it like but many will.
Reply

Keltoi
05-15-2007, 03:24 AM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Most of the Constiution is based on christianity, and most of the christianity agrees with Islam. Bill of rights, i dont' think you'll see them disappear. Today you can't even whisper that somebody should kill bush without having the secrete service giving much room to breathe. During Islamic rule, you could get away directly threatening the ruler in his face with such a thing. So I think lot of changes will take but i think it will be all for good. Some may not like it like but many will.
Just to clarify things, the U.S. Constitution isn't based on Christianity in any way whatsoever. It was formed by committee as the blueprint for how our government functions, including no establishment of religion, two legislative branches, one judicial, one executive, and blah blah. The only American political document which directly makes mention of God, more specifically the "Creator", is the Declaration of Independence.
Reply

islamirama
05-15-2007, 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Just to clarify things, the U.S. Constitution isn't based on Christianity in any way whatsoever. It was formed by committee as the blueprint for how our government functions, including no establishment of religion, two legislative branches, one judicial, one executive, and blah blah. The only American political document which directly makes mention of God, more specifically the "Creator", is the Declaration of Independence.
I know dude, i grew up here too. I mean by christian perspective, after all thomas jefferson was a christian. Anyways, like i said before. People represent a nation, what people decide is what the nation will be like. Whethe it's american christians or american muslim majority, it is their home and they will make it the society they want to live in. personally i like to see more conservative and home values than liberalism like gay marches and all that mumbo jumbo. Did you know my countries in europe are like that, where family comes first and money/job 2nd.
Reply

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