format_quote Originally Posted by
Pygoscelis
It is a matter of degree. I am sure that you follow many rules and behaviours not because they make indepent sense, but because your religious programming tells you to.
Not really. I wouldn't like to disclose why on a public forum, though.
However, I doubt that you are so programed that you would obey an order from a perceived higher power to commit attrocity, but others more far gone have done just that.
True.
I'm afraid that just isn't so.
As the post below yours correctly states, brainwashing is rarely recognized by the brainwashee, and social programming often goes unrecognized as well.
Come on, that's a cop out. So you're saying I'm in denial? I
recognize that there are certain social norms and pressures. Sometimes, I choose to break them intentionally (mostly to get a laugh). Most times, I
choose to follow such norms, again, because I've seen for myself that behaving in a manner which is considered rude or inconsiderate leads to distrust and hatred. For instance, I choose not to say something borderline offensive in a job interview, because I know full well it could jeapordize my chances of getting the job, but among friends the same comment may well have them in stitches. You might say 'well, that's proof that you're brainwashed and don't realise it', but it really isn't. What it is, is me being realistic and weighing up options rather than being an unthinking reactionary zombie.
We are ALL subject to some social programming, be it religious or non. The subject of this thread is the non religous sort, and it is common (just look at teenagers and the groups they form often even with dress codes and languages), but the religious sort is one of the strongest and most identifiable.
That's true. There are those of us who choose not to conform but to be ourselves. And I'm not talking about fake 'I say I don't conform but I actually conform to another group'. I'm talking about genuine individualism. You seem to be discounting this option, unless I misunderstand you.
This I believe. I believe this is so with most human beings. We are all subject to empathy. This is our default state. The programming of religions and other social forces are sometmes used to enforce our empathic it and sometimes to subdue it.
Fair enough.
It may not be as easy to leave as you may think. Most apostates have a lot of conflicted feelings about their apostacy. There are a lot of psychological issues you may have to deal with if you ever went apostate. There is also the community you now belong to who may react badly and treat you differently (this may or may not be the case in your particular situation but it is common).
In the past, I've considered all that and have come to the conclusion that, should I choose to become apostate, it really wouldn't be too difficult in my case, even the potential community troubles. But crucially, I choose to
stay, because I
choose to believe in my religion. I've looked at both sides of the equation and come to my own conclusion, which is realistically the best anyone can do when it comes to things like this.
Applying this to teenagers, if they actively see both sides of the coin and decide
for themselves which one they prefer, or decide they'd like a bit of both, I don't think that's brainwashing. I think it's an informed decision.