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Hashim_507
03-12-2007, 08:12 AM
As a muslim brother i am not nationalist i chose to live that way . Therefore i am wondering whats your opinion.
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vpb
03-12-2007, 11:01 AM
there's no nationalism in Islam.

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). Surah (Chapter) AL-HUJRAAT, Ayat (Verse) 13


And the type of nationalism people have, just creates problems and bring the world to more destruction. As we see today :skeleton:
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-12-2007, 11:07 AM
nationalism is haram in islam and according to a hadith the one who calls for assabiyah is as though he has bit his fathers genitals *whoah :eek:* therefore i doubt any true muslim who understands his religion will ever be for nationalism.


:)
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lolwatever
03-12-2007, 11:14 AM
far from it. alhamdulilah.
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Maimunah
03-12-2007, 11:18 AM
Nationalism is HARAM because the Prophet Mohammad (saw) said in the following Hadeeths:

"Leave it. It is Rotten " [Bukhari & Muslim] refers to all forms of Asabiyah, nationalism, racism, and patriotism.

Also, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Undoubtedly Allah has removed from you the pride of arrogance of the age of Jahilliyah (ignorance) and the glorification of ancestors. Now people are of two kinds. Either believers who are aware or transgressors who do wrong. You are all the children of Adam and Adam was made of clay. People should give up their pride in nations because that is a coal from the coals of Hell-fire. If they do not give this up Allah (swt) will consider them lower than the lowly worm which pushes itself through Khara (dung)." [Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi]

:w:
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iqbal_soofi
03-12-2007, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by Hashim_507
As a muslim brother i am not nationalist i chose to live that way . Therefore i am wondering whats your opinion.
What do you really mean by nationalism? Every nation has its own national identity. Arabs are proud to be Arabs and most of the Arab traditions were permitted in Islam. Do you mean that we should forget about our national identity and adopt those Arab traditions which were included in Islam? For example many non-Arab Muslim don't like polygamy or marrying with the daughters of their friends. How can they give some of their good tradions and become like Arabs in all respects?
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NoName55
03-12-2007, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Hashim_507
As a muslim brother i am not nationalist i chose to live that way . Therefore i am wondering whats your opinion.
:sl:
I am, for I don't want Pakistan to turn in to a Gujaarat, chechna, kashmir and I can go on naming more places forever. I need a place that can become a fortress of Islaam, from where Muslim can reach out and help the oppressed. There is NOT going to be a khilafah anytime soon esp. if you listen to those enemies of Pakistan the pseudo scholars and ranting moolas.

more comment to come later
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iqbal_soofi
03-12-2007, 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
nationalism is haram in islam and according to a hadith the one who calls for assabiyah is as though he has bit his fathers genitals *whoah :eek:* therefore i doubt any true muslim who understands his religion will ever be for nationalism.


:)
U sure this kind of language was used in the Hadith?
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FBI
03-12-2007, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
U sure this kind of language was used in the Hadith?
why whats wrong with the language that's the scientific term for the organs
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iqbal_soofi
03-12-2007, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by FBI
why whats wrong with the language that's the scientific term for the organs
So what that organ has to do with nationalism? Wasn't there any decent way to warn?
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FBI
03-12-2007, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
So what that organ has to do with nationalism? Wasn't there any decent way to warn?
Don't ask me, I'm not the one reporting the hadith, and I don't see why u have a problem with the word anyway
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NoName55
03-12-2007, 06:10 PM
I'm not the one reporting the hadith
Is a "hadith" a hadith if the post is contrary to rule 18?
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FBI
03-12-2007, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
Is a "hadith" a hadith if the post is contrary to rule 18?
well I don't see what rule 18 has to do with this, I mean if u wanna see the source of the hadith just ask the bro who posted it
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- Qatada -
03-12-2007, 06:16 PM
:salamext:


I don't think this ideas going down a good road, but anyway this is the thread the brother got it from:

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ism-islam.html
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Hashim_507
03-12-2007, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
What do you really mean by nationalism? Every nation has its own national identity. Arabs are proud to be Arabs and most of the Arab traditions were permitted in Islam. Do you mean that we should forget about our national identity and adopt those Arab traditions which were included in Islam? For example many non-Arab Muslim don't like polygamy or marrying with the daughters of their friends. How can they give some of their good tradions and become like Arabs in all respects?

You are confusing with culture, everyone have culture. My topic is not about arab tradition or whoever. Separate culture from islam, they dont go along. I am talking about nationalist. The definition is;nationalism refers to patriotism and loyalty to a person's own country or nation. Like i said before i am not nationalist. Lets hear your opinion about my question, most people have excellent opinion.
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NoName55
03-12-2007, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by FBI
well I don't see what rule 18 has to do with this, I mean if u wanna see the source of the hadith just ask the bro who posted it
Okay! Thanks, but I shan't bother asking him since its not in any of my collections (of Authentic Sunnah) or my computer databanks.

Ma'asalaama

edit:

Best among you is the person who defends his tribe till they do not commit a sin.” [Sunan Abu Dawood, , hadith # 5130]
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NoName55
03-12-2007, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Hashim_507
You are confusing with culture, everyone have culture. My topic is not about arab tradition or whoever. Separate culture from islam, they dont go along. I am talking about nationalist, the definition is;nationalism refers to patriotism and loyalty to a person's own country or nation. Like i said before i am not nationalist. Lets hear your opinion about my question, most people have excellent opinion.
I would prefer not to be a cowardly scoundrel who hides behind this idea, when he is asked when Pakistan is under attack;

why don't you help defend it?

"oh you faasaq I'm waiting for khilafah"
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- Qatada -
03-12-2007, 06:27 PM
:salamext:


Lets not argue inshaa Allaah please. Jazaak Allaah khayr.
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iqbal_soofi
03-12-2007, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
Is a "hadith" a hadith if the post is contrary to rule 18?
Are U sure it's a haidth in which "biting one's fathers genitals" was said?
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NoName55
03-12-2007, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Lets not argue inshaa Allaah please. Jazaak Allaah khayr.
:wasalamex
I am sorry that I get emotional, I shall keep out of it.

Thank you for the reminder.

Ma'asalaama

edit:

Assabiyah (Prejudice/racism):
*Imam Ja’far al‑Sadiq* reported from the Prophet (P.B.U.H) who said: "Whosoever
possesses in his heart 'asabiyyah even to the extent of a mustard seed, God will raise
him on the Day of Resurrection with the Bedouins of the Jahiliyyah.”

[Al‑Kulayni, al‑Kafi, vol. 2, bab al ‘asabiyah, p. 308, hadith # 3]

*
Ja'far al-Sadiq* = sixth Shi'a imam = fifth Ismaili imam
"respected by Sunnis for his contributions to the Sunni scholarship"
Al‑Kulayni, al‑Kafi = Shia hadith collection
"There is within it sayings, who's chains of narration contain known
ignorants, liars and fabricators"
"al-Kafi, in its entirety, is not false, as it still contains many authentic narrations"
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FBI
03-12-2007, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Are U sure it's a haidth in which "biting one's fathers genitals" was said?
it's reported here
Hadith recorded in
Mishkat al-Masabith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"He who calls for `Asabiyyah is as if he bit his father's genitals"
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-12-2007, 06:43 PM
Nationalism = a disease of the heart! I despise it...
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FBI
03-12-2007, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
Okay! Thanks, but I shan't bother asking him since its not in any of my collections (of Authentic Sunnah) or my computer databanks.

Ma'asalaama
I don't get what u mean bro, u saying since it aint in the books u got u aint gonna bother with the hadith?
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Ismahaan
03-12-2007, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
What do you really mean by nationalism? Every nation has its own national identity. Arabs are proud to be Arabs and most of the Arab traditions were permitted in Islam. Do you mean that we should forget about our national identity and adopt those Arab traditions which were included in Islam? For example many non-Arab Muslim don't like polygamy or marrying with the daughters of their friends. How can they give some of their good tradions and become like Arabs in all respects?
Arabs are definitely proud to be Arabs but they shouln't be. They should be proud to be be Muslims. There isn't honour in anything but Islam. Arabs often say proudly "Ana 3arab!"as if Arabs are superior to other people. I hate hearing "Ana Sa3udi/Misri". I'm like so what?
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iqbal_soofi
03-12-2007, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Hashim_507
You are confusing with culture, everyone have culture. My topic is not about arab tradition or whoever. Separate culture from islam, they dont go along. I am talking about nationalist, the definition is;nationalism refers to patriotism and loyalty to a person's own country or nation. Like i said before i am not nationalist. Lets hear your opinion about my question, most people have excellent opinion.
I understand that culture is different than nationalism, but I assumed from your first post that you were trying to say that as Muslims we shouldn't be loyal or pariotic to our nations. You confirmed my assumption in clear words in this post.

Now let me give my point once again that we as Muslims should not only be loyal or patriotic to our respective nations but we should also save the good tradtions and values of our national cultures that are endangered due to the promotion of sentimentalism in the name of Islam. The royal family of Saudi Arabi and the fundamentalist regieme in Iran are spending billions for setting up madrisas in other countries that are trying to change our national cultures their way. We shouldn't let them destroy our national identities.
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FBI
03-12-2007, 06:49 PM
:sl:

countries that are trying to change our national cultures their way.
How so?
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Hashim_507
03-12-2007, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
:wasalamex
I am sorry that I get emotional, I shall keep out of it.

Thank you for the reminder.

Ma'asalaama

edit:

Assabiyah (Prejudice/racism):
Imam Ja’far al‑Sadiq (a) reported from the Prophet (P.B.U.H) who said: "Whosoever
possesses in his heart 'asabiyyah even to the extent of a mustard seed, God will raise
him on the Day of Resurrection with the Bedouins of the Jahiliyyah.”

[Al‑Kulayni, al‑Kafi, vol. 2, bab al ‘asabiyah, p. 308, hadith # 3]
I am not coward, i would defend any muslim nation under attack. But muslims needs to unite under one banner. Also muslim ummah needs to fixed internal problem like bringing back the shariah way of life.
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Hashim_507
03-12-2007, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
I understand that culture is different than nationalism, but I assumed from your first post that you were trying to say that as Muslims we shouldn't be loyal or pariotic to our nations. You confirmed my assumption in clear words in this post.

Now let me give my point once again that we as Muslims should not only be loyal or patriotic to our respective nations but we should also save the good tradtions and values of our national cultures that are endangered due to the promotion of sentimentalism in the name of Islam. The royal family of Saudi Arabi and the fundamentalist regieme in Iran are spending billions for setting up madrisas in other countries that are trying to change our national cultures their way. We shouldn't let them destroy our national identities.
If a government of muslim nations building madrasas or masjids, its good idea. Nationalism is a desease that destroys muslims way of life. No muslim should die for flag that will give them no benefits. Our identity is muslim, today muslims are not united because the impact of nationalism. No doubt the muslims should value the Sunnah and Quran. Culture should be separated from religion of islam.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-12-2007, 07:07 PM
Nationalism should never be put at the same line of Islam, in my opinion. Your country is in trouble, protect it. But if I had to choose between my people and my country, I think u could guess which one is better.
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England
03-12-2007, 07:18 PM
I'm a nationalist. I'm proud to be British/English but at the same time I'm not proud OF my country at present. Britiain is a dump. So much crime, so much political correctness so much this so much that. Criminals are getting away with murder, thugs are getting away with anti-social behaviour, paedophiles let loose. This is country is soft... TOO SOFT. It's getting worse.
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vpb
03-12-2007, 07:24 PM
nationalism has brought the world where it is now.

WW2, cold war, nuclear stuff....bla bla bla

islam's da best , full stop :P lol

:threadclo
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England
03-12-2007, 07:36 PM
I believe Iran is a Nationalist country....?
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vpb
03-12-2007, 07:39 PM
I believe Iran is a Nationalist country....?
i hope the thread will not diverge here.


i closed the thread, how did u post ? :P :D loll
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Hashim_507
03-12-2007, 08:22 PM
Well i hope people will benefit the thread..:)
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iqbal_soofi
03-12-2007, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by FBI
why whats wrong with the language that's the scientific term for the organs
What kind of rocket science is this? Do you call it scientific using such phrases to teach some lessons? At least I can't teach my daughter or even my son using this kind of terminology. I don't know what kind of parnets send their children to madrisas to learn this rocket science?
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Maimunah
03-12-2007, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
What kind of rocket science is this? Do you call it scientific using such phrases to teach some lessons? At least I can't teach my daughter or even my son using this kind of terminology. I don't know what kind of parnets send their children to madrisas to learn this rocket science?
man do u have problem with a hadith?? cant u at least take it n be quite. its the saying of the messenger of Allah muhamed sallalahu aleyhi wasalaam. its not right for u to argue over such thing. beware of Allah plz.

this thread should be closed inshaAllah.

:w:
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