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View Full Version : Chemicals attacks against tribal leader opposed to Al-Queda sicken hundreds Iraqi's



ManchesterFolk
03-18-2007, 12:51 AM
BAGHDAD - Three suicide bombers driving trucks rigged with tanks of toxic chlorine gas struck targets in heavily Sunni Anbar province including the office of a Sunni tribal leader opposed to al-Qaida. The attacks killed at least two people and sickened 350 Iraqi civilians and six U.S. troops, the U.S. military said Saturday.

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There is a mounting power struggle between insurgents and the growing number of Sunnis who oppose them in Anbar, the center of the Sunni insurgency, which stretches from Baghdad to the borders with Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. The Anbar assaults came three days after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, a Shiite, traveled there to reach out to Sunni clan chiefs in a bid to undermine tribal support for the insurgency.

The violence started about 4:11 p.m. Friday when a driver detonated explosives in a pickup truck carrying chlorine at a checkpoint northeast of the provincial capital of Ramadi, wounding one U.S. service member and one Iraqi civilian, the military said in a statement.

Two hours later a dump truck exploded in Amiriyah, south of Fallujah, killing two policemen and leaving as many as 100 residents with symptoms of chlorine exposure ranging from minor skin and lung irritations to vomiting, the military said. Iraqi authorities said at least six people were killed and dozens wounded when the truck blew up in a line of cars waiting at a checkpoint. The U.S. did not confirm the Iraqi report.

Ahmed Kuhdier, a 32-year-old taxi driver, said the blast sent up a plume of white smoke that turned black and blue.

"Minutes later, we started to smell nasty smells. I saw people coming form the explosion site and they were coughing and having trouble breathing," he said.

Another suicide bomber detonated a dump truck containing a 200-gallon chlorine tank rigged with explosives at 7:13 p.m. three miles south of Fallujah in the Albu Issa tribal region, the military said. U.S. forces found about 250 local civilians, including seven children, suffering from symptoms related to chlorine exposure, according to the statement. Police said the bomb was targeting the reception center of a tribal sheik who has denounced al-Qaida.

Four other bombings have released chlorine gas since Jan. 28, when a suicide bomber driving a dump truck filled with explosives and a chlorine tank struck a quick-reaction force and Iraqi police in Ramadi, killing 16 people. The U.S. military has warned that insurgents are adopting new tactics in a campaign to spread panic.

The most recent such attack occurred Feb. 21 in Baghdad, killing five people and sending more than 55 to hospitals, a day after a bomb planted on a chlorine tanker left more than 150 villagers stricken near Taji, 12 miles north of the capital.

A previously unannounced suicide car bombing in Ramadi involving chlorine killed two Iraqi security officers and wounded 16 other people, including 13 civilians, on Feb. 19, the military said Saturday.

The military said last month that U.S. troops found a car bomb factory near Fallujah with about 65 propane tanks and ordinary chemicals it believed the insurgents were going to try to mix with explosives. Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the chief U.S. military spokesman, called it a "crude attempt to raise the terror level."

Chlorine, which irritates the respiratory system, eyes and skin at low exposure and can cause death in heavier concentrations, is easily accessible. It is used for water purification plants, bleaches and disinfectants.

The primary effect of the chlorine attacks has been to spread panic. Although chlorine gas can be fatal, the heat from the explosions can render the gas nontoxic. Victims in the recent chlorine blasts died from the explosions, and not the effects of the gas.

Friday's strikes underscore the increasingly violent struggle for control of Anbar — a center for anti-U.S. guerrillas since the uprising in Fallujah in 2004 that galvanized the insurgency. In the past year, some major Sunni tribes have broken with the al-Qaida-linked insurgents — a move that has led to a new sense of optimism among U.S. officials in Anbar.

Al-Maliki on Tuesday made his first trip to Anbar province, meeting with influential clan chiefs whom the U.S. and the Iraqi government are cultivating. He expressed optimism the violence could be stopped and promised the area would not be forgotten as U.S. and Iraqi forces focus on a security sweep to stop the sectarian violence in Baghdad.

Bombings and shootings targeted police patrols elsewhere in Iraq Saturday, killing five policemen, including two who died after a suicide car bomber struck the checkpoint they were manning near a Sunni mosque in western Baghdad.

At least 34 other Iraqis were killed or found dead in attacks throughout the country, including five civilians shot to death in separate attacks in Diyala province northeast of the capital. Officials also said the director of the Sunni Endowment for mosques in Diyala, Fouad Mahmoud Attaya, was abducted earlier this week by gunmen in Baqouba and an investigation was under way.

A U.S. soldier was shot to death in fighting in the provincial capital of Baqouba, the military said. On Friday, a roadside bomb killed a soldier and wounded three others on a foot patrol south of Baghdad, the military said.

Gunmen abducted a radio newscaster and his driver in a predominantly Sunni neighborhood in western Baghdad, the station's director said.

Karim Manhal, a newscaster with Radio Dijla, and his driver were seized by four masked men in the Jami'a neighborhood near the station's headquarters, director Karim Yousif said. A female staffer who was with them in the car was released, he said.

Radio Dijla, named after the Arabic name for the Tigris River, was created in 2004 as Iraq's first independent talk radio station.

Protesters angry about U.S. policy in Iraq marched by the thousands in Washington and in smaller numbers in other U.S. cities and overseas ahead of Tuesday's four-year anniversary of the Iraq invasion.

"Too many people have died and it doesn't solve anything," said Ann O'Grady, who drove to Washington through snow with her family from Ohio. "I feel bad carrying out my daily activities while people are suffering, Americans and Iraqis."

Australian Prime Minister John Howard, meanwhile, declined to commit to a timeline for withdrawing the country's 1,400 troops from Iraq.

"Great progress has been achieved, but there is still work to be done," Howard said during a news conference with al-Maliki. "As you know, I don't set speculative dates. There is nothing to be achieved by that."

Howard, a staunch U.S. ally, arrived in Baghdad after his plane was forced to make an emergency landing in southeastern Iraq because it filled with smoke, according to the Australian Associated Press. No one was injured.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070317/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
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ManchesterFolk
03-18-2007, 01:08 AM
I wonder if Al-Queda attacked "the office of a Sunni tribal leader opposed to al-Qaida". Hmmm... so anyone going to shout praise at a group who blew chemicals to kill and get sick hundreds?
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SilentObserver
03-18-2007, 02:34 AM
Uncivilized savages. There is no excuse for these kind of barbaric actions.
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ManchesterFolk
03-18-2007, 03:27 AM
Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Uncivilized savages. There is no excuse for these kind of barbaric actions.
I know they are disgusting.
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Joe98
03-18-2007, 05:45 AM
The Americans should have done something beforehand to stop this happening
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Woodrow
03-18-2007, 06:01 AM
reopened by request. Somebody has some pertinent words to add.
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shible
03-18-2007, 06:17 AM
Indeed The American's Should have done something to help Iraq Out.


America should have done something before thinking of war on an unarmed country

America should have done something when three Lawyers who appreared for the Late Saddam Hussain were killed....


America should have done something before hanging a Ruler of a nation without taking him into world court


America should have done something when they discovered the Nasty action performed in Abu Garib Prison


America should have done something when they saw an american soldier plead guilty for his rape on an Iraqi Child.


America should have done something when they took over the Oil wealth of a Nation Which is still under Terror and yet not returned to it's normal life


America should have done something when they kill more and more innocents in the name of Friendly Firing



Due you still think America should have done something ................


Instead America was the one that did All these things and still continuing their Services on Sucking down a nation and it's people.


Where even the So Called rights of a nation was totally ambushed


And yet it's thirst Grows more and more like some kind of Monsters Thirst for Blood


I knew the Constitution is not just a bunch of Power people who work around

but it was a constitution made by the people so Who Really need to do something is the citizens of America

By trying to help those people in Iraq in any means.

At the same time forming their unity against this Ruthless administration and starting to think to vote for the right guy and also to protest the Criminals in the shield of Politicians
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Joe98
03-18-2007, 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by shible
America should have done something before hanging a Ruler of a nation without taking him into world court

Errrrrr the US protested against the hanging but Iraq went along with it anyway.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-18-2007, 12:10 PM
Would I be wrong to think that US may have had a hand in the insurgent attacks from the start? So it would justify them remaining there as long as possible? I speak the truth.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-18-2007, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Errrrrr the US protested against the hanging but Iraq went along with it anyway.
LOL - LMAO - I've heard it all now! - Iraq is another state of the US, and they employ puppets to ''run'' Iraq. So cut the bull dude! :D
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Malaikah
03-18-2007, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
The Americans should have done something beforehand to stop this happening
Yeh, very true, they should have used their brains and stayed our of Iraq.
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shible
03-18-2007, 03:50 PM
:sl:

Wat we do here is judging the nations by the current issues

But how many of us over here realize wat was the reason for all these Mess?



Last week i saw a survey on a Weekly Journel and it was about

how far the Iraqi citizens feel Secured about the current situation over there

and it was 95% of the total Survey participants who said they feel insecured and said they are moving each day with Fear

Which was 45-50% during the time of Late Saddam Hussein's Regime



Let me get it straight If a house you live is abducted by a stranger and the law say they couldn't help you wat will be your next move

Will you leave the house just like that and earn once again from the scratch to build your new home.


Since giving opinion is not an issue in today's world Unless and Until it is not based upon you.


So What we must do now is try to help those people to regain their rights and not jus commenting and giving ideas and thought on Isuues that we don't see in person the Media Does Make up many stories

Even they knew they can't stand against a Government

:w:
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don532
03-18-2007, 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Yeh, very true, they should have used their brains and stayed our of Iraq.
Right. Maybe the Americans should have stayed out of Kuwait, too. Then left Saddam Hussein in power to continue to destabilize the mideast.
Right. The Americans must have something to do with the insurgency that is killing Americans, too. Unbelievable someone would think that.
And the Americans should have done something to prevent the Sunni against Shiite violence every time it happens. What do you suggest? Locking all Iraqis in their homes so no one can get out?
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ManchesterFolk
03-18-2007, 04:28 PM
America should have done something before thinking of war on an unarmed country
Unarmed? That is what you call the gases used to gas Kurds by your beloved Saddam?

America should have done something when three Lawyers who appreared for the Late Saddam Hussain were killed....
What could have the USA done? It was not they who killed them.


America should have done something before hanging a Ruler of a nation without taking him into world court
The USA did not. It was Iraqi courts who did so, and the Iraqi people suffered, not the world so they have the right to hang him if they wish.

America should have done something when they discovered the Nasty action performed in Abu Garib Prison
How could they have known? Americans condemned that, and the people responsible are in jails themselves now.

America should have done something when they saw an american soldier plead guilty for his rape on an Iraqi Child.
What could they do? They jailed him, that is all they can do. They punish there soldiers when they break law, unlike Iraq militants who reward them.

America should have done something when they took over the Oil wealth of a Nation Which is still under Terror and yet not returned to it's normal life
I pray it is fixed soon.


America should have done something when they kill more and more innocents in the name of Friendly Firing[/B]


Due you still think America should have done something ................

"Due"? Huh?

Instead America was the one that did All these things and still continuing their Services on Sucking down a nation and it's people.
No they did not.


Where even the So Called rights of a nation was totally ambushed


And yet it's thirst Grows more and more like some kind of Monsters Thirst for Blood
Your insane.
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shible
03-18-2007, 04:48 PM
Justice is not a word that should be used to to Gain power and eliminate your enimies

Instead Justice is a word which is used to help the people to regain their rights.

Do u say America Helped Afgan for justice which is now a world's first wealthy nation to produce Illegal Drugs under the indirect Insight of American Landlords and Mob's

Do u say America helped Kuwait for justice which was once a really devoted religious country where now women are moving out with western cultured Dressing and Prostution has been rooted and most who indulge in these are Western nation's Woman.


Do u say America helped Iraq for justice where the Son of Soil are already Burried in the same soil and wat is left there is poor people who cannot even defend their own lives.


Do u say America helped Japan for Justice by Dropping an Atomic Bomb and also made Japan sign a treaty that it would never be allowed to produce nuclear weapons.


Do u say America helped Thailand for Justice which was condemned not just by it's allies but by all the nations around the world.


Come on Bro Wake-up

Wake-up From the Flashy Lifestyle and Look down on the other side your Beloved nation.

If there was an Issue in your home you will be one taking care of it and why do u don't intend to do it with your beloved nation.


Don't you understand the difference that's happening around you.

Please Do a research before answering any Question.


These things discussed over here are not just statements from any story books or dialogues from Movies that you Enjoy.

Instead they are the Real Incidents happening around you.

Can't you hear the Cry and Blood bath of So many innocent Childrens who are the future of each and every nation.


Can't you hear the Cry of Harrassed women before their own family.


Don't you really knew the life history so the So-Called Terrorist Osama bin Laden to Whom America first Gave Weapons to eliminate their Enemies....


Pretending that nothing happened never really helps anyone....
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don532
03-18-2007, 05:07 PM
So the drug trade is under the running of American landlords. Right.
We went into Kuwait because Saddam Hussein invaded it. Did you not see the reports of what the Iraqi army was doing after they went in there?
We went into Iraq and took out Saddam's oppressive governement. And now some people there are vying for power for their little groups rather then taking advantage of the opportunity to install a government that will be on people can live under without fear.
We dropped the bomb on Japan rather than more people losing their lives as the allies would have island hopped into Japan and finally conducted an invasion.
The US is certainly not perfect. On that we agree. But the US is not the great evil you portray it to be.
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don532
03-18-2007, 05:11 PM
"Don't you really knew the life history so the So-Called Terrorist Osama bin Laden to Whom America first Gave Weapons to eliminate their Enemies...."

I am very aware of the US support of the Afghan resistance against Russia. However, there is nothing "so-called" about bin laden's terrorist activities.
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habibti4allah7
03-18-2007, 06:14 PM
wow that is ourageous! all this need to stop...
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ManchesterFolk
03-19-2007, 12:22 AM
Amen!
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shible
03-19-2007, 03:35 AM
Originally Posted by don532
The US is certainly not perfect. On that we agree. But the US is not the great evil you portray it to be.
I never Said the US is Evil My Brother u took me All wrong.

If a few fishermen drown on sea then thus that mean the sea is Evil.

It's not like that...



The Country that was formed in such a way to help the people in any means.

This way one of the points held on the U.S. Legilature when a set of laws were created...

The point is the Government which is Ruling takes it in that way.


U can see the movies and Serials Potray Texas People as Cowboy's alsways with guns and who wish to fight . Do u feel it in that way i really don't think so...


and the same thing also happened to us Muslims.


when one group of people where fighting to refrain their home town and

One was indulging in some terror activities and

one set who strictly followed the rules of the religion in all aspects and lived peacefully


And when the casualties of the Terror group was great the world clubbed all the muslims into one category as terrorist and they started to attack us in all means.


U know what happened after 9/11 in India the people who were interested in social welfare and who were political threat to some politicians were grouped as Muslim terrorists and Jailed

This is not the case with just India but with all Muslim's all over the world.

yet we still survive.

and when it was a work of an terrorist group why didn't they aimed on that specific group but on one specific community.

and did any of our Muslim brothers aimed on any specific group of people for the fault of a certain state or country.


U can still see the people who fight with U.S Force in Iraq really would Appreciate U.S if it would help those people to reconstruct Iraq without it's armed men but by employing some non profitable associations and organisations in such a way to employ Iraqi people build their own town

so the people in Iraq will get work and also they could also reconstruct the whole country.

How do u think the people will return to normal life when there are Armed men and Battle Tanks roaming around their country.


Peace was never achieved in Gun point and that's the reason why the used flowers and birds to reflect peace.


All i ask don't make Iraq as a Historical place by burrying more and more graves on that land instead let it once again Bloom.


Do u think if a set of armed men are roaming on your streets will really make u feel secured. will your children play in roads and will they all feel free and independent on such a condition.....
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snakelegs
03-19-2007, 05:31 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Would I be wrong to think that US may have had a hand in the insurgent attacks from the start? So it would justify them remaining there as long as possible? I speak the truth.
here's a real eye-opener on the many different games u.s. is playing in the middle-east.
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...terrorism.html
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don532
03-19-2007, 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by shible
I never Said the US is Evil My Brother u took me All wrong.

If a few fishermen drown on sea then thus that mean the sea is Evil.

It's not like that...



The Country that was formed in such a way to help the people in any means.

This way one of the points held on the U.S. Legilature when a set of laws were created...

The point is the Government which is Ruling takes it in that way.


U can see the movies and Serials Potray Texas People as Cowboy's alsways with guns and who wish to fight . Do u feel it in that way i really don't think so...


and the same thing also happened to us Muslims.


when one group of people where fighting to refrain their home town and

One was indulging in some terror activities and

one set who strictly followed the rules of the religion in all aspects and lived peacefully


And when the casualties of the Terror group was great the world clubbed all the muslims into one category as terrorist and they started to attack us in all means.


U know what happened after 9/11 in India the people who were interested in social welfare and who were political threat to some politicians were grouped as Muslim terrorists and Jailed

This is not the case with just India but with all Muslim's all over the world.

yet we still survive.

and when it was a work of an terrorist group why didn't they aimed on that specific group but on one specific community.

and did any of our Muslim brothers aimed on any specific group of people for the fault of a certain state or country.


U can still see the people who fight with U.S Force in Iraq really would Appreciate U.S if it would help those people to reconstruct Iraq without it's armed men but by employing some non profitable associations and organisations in such a way to employ Iraqi people build their own town

so the people in Iraq will get work and also they could also reconstruct the whole country.

How do u think the people will return to normal life when there are Armed men and Battle Tanks roaming around their country.


Peace was never achieved in Gun point and that's the reason why the used flowers and birds to reflect peace.


All i ask don't make Iraq as a Historical place by burrying more and more graves on that land instead let it once again Bloom.


Do u think if a set of armed men are roaming on your streets will really make u feel secured. will your children play in roads and will they all feel free and independent on such a condition.....
I see your point now. Thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding.
However, it is not the US that is killing all the Iraqis that are dying. We are not the ones blowing up the markets, planting IEDs and assasinating Iraqis based on their sect.
When our forces rebuild a pipeline, the insurgents blow it up.
Non-profit organizations would not be wise to be there now because their people will be killed or kidnapped.
If the armed coalition men all leave now, those that do terror against their own countrymen to strive for power would continue unabated.
The thought is the US provides security while the Iraqi government gets formed and able to provide security for its people and then we leave. A noble goal, but doing that is certainly proving difficult.
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shible
03-19-2007, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by don532
The thought is the US provides security while the Iraqi government gets formed and able to provide security for its people and then we leave. A noble goal, but doing that is certainly proving difficult.
I can Clearly understand that.

But to achieve that we first need to gain the trust of those residents in Iraq.

But in case if the people are not in favor of the present condition and if they tend to leave then for whom will the government and the U.S. Forces construct the nation.

We knew many histories of many kind of kings and i fear there are some kings who came to thron by killing most number of people.

And i don't wish to see that happen again.

I agree the terrorist will try to root in and use this time to plant their terror. But can't you see till now the overall number of people killed there and in them about 10 - 20% are said to be activists and the remaining 70 - 80% are all innocent people.

A government should be formed for the welfare of those people and not to plunder the people and make the nation as a living Graveyard.

We can still see the Big oil gaints of U.S. are right now on a bid for those oil wells in Iraq.

Is this what the welfare of people means.


How much did the U.S. helped the Afghan after the war. Do u think that U.S.
achieved their goal and finally helped the nation.


While they were Bombing on Iraq they destroyed several Hospitals, Schools, Research Societies and many more of those resident homes.


Do u think that the U.S. will help them in building all these things.


Can't you see the reality Before your Eyes and


finally they accepted there was no weapons of mass destruction.

Now what will be the Sentence given to U.S. Administration which killed so many of those innocent people..................

Jus try to Apply yourself on that state what do u think will be your decision after your house is burnt and your closest family member is dead ( " May God forgive me for using such words Astagfirullah" ).

Will you still be in a mindset of accepting the help of those who did this to you
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MTAFFI
03-19-2007, 03:16 PM
I find it absolutely irresponsible and ridiculous some of the responses that have come about on this particular thread. Here is a thread about Al-Qaeda insurgents poisoning Iraqi air, sickening other Muslims in a barbaric chemical attack, and the majority of the Muslim responses on this thread are "Well the US should have done something" or "It is the US's fault". I simply cannot understand this logic, it is almost like anything that happens can be justified, by some, by blaming the US. This is just sick and misguided, it is not the US's fault that this happened it is those that blame it on the US, it is their fault. By justifying what these groups are doing by simply blaming it on the US you are empowering and supporting these groups. WAKE UP, many Muslims are creating an enviroment that is affecting Muslims everywhere, stop blaming everyone else, take responsibility and stand against these heinous and cowardly acts of violence, then and only then will your lands be free and your people will live in peace. Until you realize that it isnt the US that is causing you problems and that it is your own people you will live in a state of war, and any group or organization that has ever acted this way is only destined for one thing, annihilation.
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don532
03-19-2007, 03:17 PM
Who is killing the 80%....the innocents?
So should the US leave and let those that do terror have the country?
If the Iraqis could govern themselves they would have done so by now.
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don532
03-19-2007, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by shible
I can Clearly understand that.

But to achieve that we first need to gain the trust of those residents in Iraq.

But in case if the people are not in favor of the present condition and if they tend to leave then for whom will the government and the U.S. Forces construct the nation.

We knew many histories of many kind of kings and i fear there are some kings who came to thron by killing most number of people.

And i don't wish to see that happen again.

I agree the terrorist will try to root in and use this time to plant their terror. But can't you see till now the overall number of people killed there and in them about 10 - 20% are said to be activists and the remaining 70 - 80% are all innocent people.

A government should be formed for the welfare of those people and not to plunder the people and make the nation as a living Graveyard.

We can still see the Big oil gaints of U.S. are right now on a bid for those oil wells in Iraq.

Is this what the welfare of people means.


How much did the U.S. helped the Afghan after the war. Do u think that U.S.
achieved their goal and finally helped the nation.


While they were Bombing on Iraq they destroyed several Hospitals, Schools, Research Societies and many more of those resident homes.


Do u think that the U.S. will help them in building all these things.


Can't you see the reality Before your Eyes and


finally they accepted there was no weapons of mass destruction.

Now what will be the Sentence given to U.S. Administration which killed so many of those innocent people..................

Jus try to Apply yourself on that state what do u think will be your decision after your house is burnt and your closest family member is dead ( " May God forgive me for using such words Astagfirullah" ).

Will you still be in a mindset of accepting the help of those who did this to you
I think my previous reply was unclear.

So who is killing the 80% who are innocent? Is it the US or is it the insurgents that blow themselves up in the marketplace and kidnap to assasinate other Muslims?

Should the US just leave so those that do terror may have the country?

If the Iraqis could govern themselves, they would have by now.

Believe me, we would love to not be there militarily.
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shible
03-19-2007, 05:11 PM
Since u need some proofs i am posting a few proofs for your better understanding


Pessimism 'growing among Iraqis'
A new survey paints a pessimistic picture of Iraqis' confidence in their own government and in coalition forces.
Only 18% of Iraqis have confidence in US and coalition troops, while opinion is almost evenly split on whether to have confidence in Iraq's government.

About 86% of those questioned expressed concern about someone in their household being a victim of violence.

More than 2,000 people were polled, which was commissioned by the BBC, ABC News, ARD German TV and USA Today.

The survey was conducted by D3 Systems.

The latest findings contrast strongly with the outlook among Iraqis in 2005, when respondents to a similar survey were generally hopeful about the future.

Asked whether they thought reconstruction efforts in Iraq had been effective, some 67% said they felt they had not.

Religious divide

The poll paints a picture of an increasingly polarised Iraq, with acutely diverging views between Sunnis and Shias - Sunnis appearing more pessimistic.

Pessimism is most keenly felt across central Iraq, including Baghdad, where Sunnis are most numerous.

the link



Poll Results Source info




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Four years after he began the Iraq war, a diminished President George W. Bush has sacrificed much of his domestic agenda and eroded U.S. credibility abroad in pursuit of the sort of nation-building he once scorned, analysts say.

The president's job approval ratings have fallen from 90 percent shortly after the September 11 attacks to just over 30 percent.

He forfeited the dream of cementing Republican control over Congress and his administration is increasingly under fire from Democrats and Republicans alike.

"There is simply no question in my mind that the Iraq war has substantially undercut Bush's ability to get other things done domestically or internationally," said Richard Eichenberg, a professor at Tufts University who has studied Bush's approval ratings.

"When he was re-elected in the fall of 2004 he interpreted the election ... by saying that 'I have political capital. I'm going to spend it.' But the fact of the matter is he's spent it all on Iraq and he's got precious little left," Eichenberg said.

After the Iraq invasion, Bush's approval ratings became linked to casualty figures and less tied to traditional factors like the economy, Eichenberg and Richard Stoll of Rice University found in researching the president's poll numbers.

"It resembles in a lot of ways what happened with President (Lyndon) Johnson in Vietnam," Stoll said. The war "sort of looms so large that it pushes almost everything else off the agenda."

In his initial years in office, Bush pushed an 11-year, $1.35 trillion tax cut through Congress, overhauled the nation's education law and added a drug benefit to the health insurance program for the elderly.

the source

Bush's Iraq-related woes...




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"One way to look at the situation in Iraq is to try to identify variables, elements that could change. Without change, the war is likely to end with troops having to fight their way out, if they can.

The military situation in Iraq is not a variable. All that can change is the speed of our defeat. Some actions might slow it, although the time for such actions, such as adopting an "ink blot" strategy instead of "capture or kill," passed long ago.

Other actions could speed our defeat, an attack on Iran chief among them. It now looks as if the Bush administration may have realized that an out-of-the-blue, Pearl Harbor-style air and missile attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is politically infeasible. Instead, the White House will order a series of small "border incidents," pinpricks similar to last week's raid on an Iranian mission in Kurdistan, intended to provoke Iranian retaliation. That retaliation will then be presented as an Iranian attack on forces, with the air raids on Iranian nuclear targets called "retaliation." Fabricated border incidents have a long history as casus belli; perhaps the Bushies can dress some German soldiers up in Polish uniforms.

As Bush made clear in last Wednesday's speech, his policies are not a variable. He will pursue the neocons' dreams all the way to Hell, where they originated.


the link

US Sins and Bitter Options in Iraq





View 4



When it comes to Iraq, there are two kinds of presidential candidates. The disciplined ones, like Hillary Clinton, carefully avoid acknowledging reality. The more candid, like John McCain and Barack Obama, sometimes blurt out the truth, but quickly apologize.

For many presidential aspirants, the first unspeakable truth is simply that the war was a mistake.

A second truth universally unacknowledged is that American soldiers being killed, grotesquely maimed, and then treated like whining freeloaders at Walter Reed Hospital are victims as much as "heroes."

the source

4 Unspeakable truth





View 5





Perhaps this explains why most Americans seem to think places like Abu Graib, Gitmo are acceptable to the civilised world. It's seems torture is an accepted practise even inside the USA.

Torture Inc. Americas Brutal Prisons


Savaged by dogs, Electrocuted With Cattle Prods, Burned By Toxic Chemicals, Does such barbaric abuse inside U.S. jails explain the horrors that were committed in Iraq?

By Deborah Davies

They are just some of the victims of wholesale torture taking place inside the U.S. prison system that we uncovered during a four-month investigation for Channel 4 . It’s terrible to watch some of the videos and realise that you’re not only seeing torture in action but, in the most extreme cases, you are witnessing young men dying.

the source

Torture Inc. Americas Brutal Prisons


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shible
03-19-2007, 05:14 PM
the last view has a video coverage too
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don532
03-19-2007, 05:22 PM
So what do you think the US should do?
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shible
03-19-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by don532
So what do you think the US should do?
Well do i have to start again from the begining Bro

U already knew what i was about to say and i have already told it to you and these are jus a few pebbles that describes the Flaws with the Administration

I never made any comment or suggestion on any citizen of America since i can still see so many people who wish to help Iraq in any ways.

even the latest poll results should have made clear about the intention and thought that the American citizens have in mind
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MTAFFI
03-19-2007, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by shible
Well do i have to start again from the begining Bro

U already knew what i was about to say and i have already told it to you and these are jus a few pebbles that describes the Flaws with the Administration

I never made any comment or suggestion on any citizen of America since i can still see so many people who wish to help Iraq in any ways.

even the latest poll results should have made clear about the intention and thought that the American citizens have in mind
What does the administration have to do with these attacks?
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shible
03-19-2007, 06:50 PM
I hope you don't really understand Bro

if few teachers in a college are not good with the subjects then who holds reponsible for them.
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MTAFFI
03-19-2007, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by shible
I hope you don't really understand Bro

if few teachers in a college are not good with the subjects then who holds reponsible for them.

what is it exactly you hope i dont really understand?
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shible
03-19-2007, 07:04 PM
Check on my previous post so that u may understand wat u really don't till now.
Reply

MTAFFI
03-19-2007, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by shible
Check on my previous post so that u may understand wat u really don't till now.
I agree with your earlier post, no religious group, ethnic group or otherwise should be labeled for something that others that particular group do. However the problem here is that certain groups are claiming that they do what they do on behalf of Islam, like in this case Al Qaeda. And instead of Muslims all over the world condemning these actions, many make excuses for them, like on this thread claiming it is the US's fault. It is no ones fault except the individuals involved, it is not Islam or the US, however because of the typical reaction of blaming it on someone else it appears as though many followers of Islam accept this behaviour and indirectly endorse it. These insurgents could be stopped with the help of the Muslim world, the Iraqi war and the war against these terrorist groups could be stopped with the help of Muslims relatively quickly. Muslim lands would then be left to the Muslims as there would be no need for occupation, and if they werent the rest of the world would condemn the US's actions and force the US to leave (even though it would not come to that).

My point to all of this is Muslims are causing the trouble for themselves by speaking against the very people that are trying to help them, Al Qaeda in Iraq is basically one in the same with the groups that wish to overthrow the current government and establish their own, they used chemical weapons against their own people, what would be the difference between these groups that are labeled by many in this forum as "freedom fighters" and Saddam Hussein? There is none, if the US leaves many many many more Iraqis will die horrible deaths and the country that is Iraq will be controlled by a terrorist organization that cares nothing about the people and only about destruction, not only against the west but as shown on this thread against their own people as well.
Reply

shible
03-20-2007, 10:29 AM
In deed i never said that we should support any specific Terrorist group .

Even the people of Iraq are not now in a position to support any specific groups or people but all they want is their home back.


but how far is this goal achieved is my point.


Whether some say them as Freedom fighters or any i am not concerned about the way the people think. but all i think is for a global Peace.

Which can be achieved by those who understand the current state of those people.

This is all what i meant. U can give compensation for anything but not a human Life, Try to think this as words of a human being and not as words of a Muslim or christian or someone.
Reply

MTAFFI
03-20-2007, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by shible
In deed i never said that we should support any specific Terrorist group .
No I never said you did

Originally Posted by shible
Even the people of Iraq are not now in a position to support any specific groups or people but all they want is their home back.
How can they get it back with these terrorist groups there?

Originally Posted by shible
but how far is this goal achieved is my point.
I am not sure what you are getting at

Originally Posted by shible
Whether some say them as Freedom fighters or any i am not concerned about the way the people think. but all i think is for a global Peace.
Global peace will never be acheived as long as these people are labeled as freedom fighters by some

Originally Posted by shible
This is all what i meant. U can give compensation for anything but not a human Life, Try to think this as words of a human being and not as words of a Muslim or christian or someone.

I personally dont care much about a persons religious or ethnic orientation when I am talking to them, good words of advice though. :D
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shible
03-20-2007, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
How can they get it back with these terrorist groups there?
the groups that you say don't exist when they come to know they have no issues to raise at and more over the people over there knew what exactly to do once they achieve their true freedom and they also know how to eridicate such group of people

Originally Posted by MTAFFI

Global peace will never be acheived as long as these people are labeled as freedom fighters by some
They were also labeled as Terrorist once and when they started helping the people in some means from the injustice happened to them (God knows the truth, Even i could be wrong, If i am wrong then i seek forgiveness from my Creator).

Some people doesn't really come into account with all people.

If there are few thousand people who feel that way then don't you think this many of the rest can help those few thousands to realize the real identity of these terrorists and Mobs.

Well what do u say Bro
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MTAFFI
03-20-2007, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by shible
the groups that you say don't exist when they come to know they have no issues to raise at and more over the people over there knew what exactly to do once they achieve their true freedom and they also know how to eridicate such group of people
I suppose that you are saying that if the US were to leave that there would be no more issues and these groups would dissipate? Perhaps some, but definitely not the majority (in my view at least, I know this is all just speculation). The majority in Iraq killed are not Americans or foreign troops it is Iraqis, which is why I dont think the violence will stop even without foreign presence. I also dont think that the Iraqi people could eradicate such a group, why should anyone believe they could look at how long Saddam stayed in power and they could never remove him


Originally Posted by shible
They were also labeled as Terrorist once and when they started helping the people in some means from the injustice happened to them (God knows the truth, Even i could be wrong, If i am wrong then i seek forgiveness from my Creator).

Some people doesn't really come into account with all people.

If there are few thousand people who feel that way then don't you think this many of the rest can help those few thousands to realize the real identity of these terrorists and Mobs.

Well what do u say Bro
I would hope that they could establish in the Iraqi peoples minds the true nature of these people, and I think many already know it, the problem is that if you dont agree with these "mobs" they will kill you, it is almost like a kill or be killed mentality, sad really. This is why the Iraqi people need to unite and state that they have had enough of this sectarian violence, they are the only ones who can stop it, however I think that these mobs and terrorist organizations have instilled the same fear that Saddam did and the people have simply become submissive over the years to this sort of oppression.

I really think all we can really do is hope and pray for peace in that land
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shible
03-20-2007, 04:43 PM
In deed there are many other Mob and terrorist groups available around the world from different casts and nations and religions and many

Why was Islam and Muslim men taken as a Bait.

Don't you really feel that the media and the government officials are Exagerating the details and informations.

Due to which a Muslim Bro with his head covering (kufi, like a cap or turban) is identified as a Terrorist.

And a muslim women who wear Hijab (covering whole body) are seen with a disgusting look on most of those Western countries.

Why isn't a Sister who works for a hospital not seen in that way. Don't you feel kind of hatred going even on innocent peoples.

why was this happening only to muslims?
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wilberhum
03-20-2007, 04:48 PM
why was this happening only to muslims?
Only to Muslims? Discrimination has been part of humanity since the beginning.
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shible
03-20-2007, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Only to Muslims? Discrimination has been part of humanity since the beginning.
yet no one else had this huge aggression when we view the past.

Either it was left with one part or half of the world.

But here is goes for muslims in each and every country.
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wilberhum
03-20-2007, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by shible
yet no one else had this huge aggression when we view the past.

Either it was left with one part or half of the world.

But here is goes for muslims in each and every country.
Just as a start. African Slavery. Who had it worst? Yes, and Muslims were a big Part of the trade. I'm make no justification for any wrong. I don't think a wrong is ok because there is a bigger wrong. I have been saying for decades,
"If you think you have it bad, just look around". I pass that advise on to you.
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MTAFFI
03-20-2007, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by shible
In deed there are many other Mob and terrorist groups available around the world from different casts and nations and religions and many
Very True
Originally Posted by shible
Why was Islam and Muslim men taken as a Bait.
Islam is not the bait and neither is Muslim men, it is the Muslim men who use Islam as an excuse to invoke violence that is the real target

Originally Posted by shible
Don't you really feel that the media and the government officials are Exagerating the details and informations.

Due to which a Muslim Bro with his head covering (kufi, like a cap or turban) is identified as a Terrorist.
I dont feel the media or the government is exaggerating, a group of terrorist who used Islam as an excuse attacked and killed 3000 innocent people in the US. This is why I am saying Islam needs to unite and condemn all of this violent behavior because the fact is it is no other group other than this group of Muslim extremist that is attacking and threatening the US right now. It isnt racial profiling or a war on Islam, it is just that the people that are committing these atrocities are from a specific religious or ethnic orientation, and because of this certain people are looked at extra carefully because of the obvious.

Originally Posted by shible
And a muslim women who wear Hijab (covering whole body) are seen with a disgusting look on most of those Western countries.
I do not look at these women with disgust and I know many Americans do not, I think the only issue with this is the men that disguise themselves in this way to cross borders, etc.

Originally Posted by shible
why was this happening only to muslims?
Because Muslims are doing nothing substantial to save themselves
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shible
03-20-2007, 05:45 PM
If we were to start a debate there are lot of those uneven incidents going on around the world with each country, religion, people and government.

Yet i give you the proofs and then you do the same where we without knowing that we have fallen into an ultimate never ending loop.

But how far can we get this job done should be the best realistic output Bro..

Well we have to wait and see what would happen as the time goes onnnn.....

All we do is comment on what we see and hear rather than briefly analyzing since we know there are many incidents around the world where innocents where charged with false cases in such a way that the real Criminal gets out freely.

We shall see how far our Calculations work with the Calculations of Time
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Ninth_Scribe
03-22-2007, 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
I know they are disgusting.
That's a very judgmental tone you're taking there. True, chlorine bombs are crude, but if that's how you rank "disgusting" America should top the honors list. Can't think of anything more hideous than the white phosphorus U.S. troops used, or the cluster bombs Israel used. I suppose you have good reasons for all that?

Ninth Scribe
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MTAFFI
03-23-2007, 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
That's a very judgmental tone you're taking there. True, chlorine bombs are crude, but if that's how you rank "disgusting" America should top the honors list. Can't think of anything more hideous than the white phosphorus U.S. troops used, or the cluster bombs Israel used. I suppose you have good reasons for all that?

Ninth Scribe
I think I would respond to this with "I didnt know we were talking about the hideous attacks" made by americans here, also I would like to add, we didnt use those weapons against our own people. These people are disgusting and are not fit for the world we live in today.
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Ninth_Scribe
03-24-2007, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
I think I would respond to this with "I didnt know we were talking about the hideous attacks" made by americans here, also I would like to add, we didnt use those weapons against our own people. These people are disgusting and are not fit for the world we live in today.
Well, it's a natural side-effect, equally comparable in nature to New Orleans, which has just become the "murder capital" of America (Americans killing Americans), without war. Destruction always forces men to attack their own "weaker links" but I suppose human nature doesn't interest you much.

In my opinion, Iraq's Mujahideen have excersized a great deal of restraint considering the facts, as they've come into the light. Also, I disagree with the total 'disconnect'. What America does there will influence what Iraqis do there, in like kind (provocation). For instance, my commentary was meant for Manchester Folk, but you saw fit to answer for him? Not important, just a demonstration of the principle. Humanity is what it is.

Ninth Scribe
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