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NoName55
03-19-2007, 06:09 AM


Many people today are looking for a way to establish a way of life that will bring them contentment, inner certainty and peace. Some of these seekers believe they will find the happiness and peace of mind they are looking for in religions such as Hinduism or Buddhism. Many people have been influenced by these eastern religions because of their aura of mystery and mysticism, and because they make use of techniques such as meditation, and because of the unusual attitudes, dress, manner of speech and religious practices of those who follow them. However, these religions espouse many beliefs and practices that conflict with reason and logic.

The belief in karma is one such characteristic of these religions that are currently attracting interest in our countries. Although it encourages people to adopt certain positive moral qualities, the philosophy of karma also contains several erroneous and superstitious beliefs. It is not possible for these superstitions, which form the basis of the belief in karma, to become a way to freedom for humanity or to bring people genuine inner certainty and peace of mind. On the contrary, they cause even greater spiritual confusion.

The way to ensuring real happiness and peace of mind in this world is the religion of Islam and its source, the Quraan which our Lord, Allah, the One and Only Lord of the universe, chose for humanity in order to restore the truths previously revealed to Prophets and Messengers among all peoples on earth but forgotten and corrupted to some extent almost everywhere.

This deals both with those aspects of the belief in karma that concern good ethical practices that accord with the teachings of the Quraan, and with those erroneous aspects that accord neither with the Quaran, nor with human reason and nor with human conscience.





continued ....
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Trumble
03-19-2007, 07:17 AM
Sadly, life (or at least this one) is far too short to respond to a whole website. Perhaps if you posted regarding particular issues that concern you then some sort sort of sensible comparative religion discussion might be possible?

Most here, I think, have some idea what to expect from Harun Yahya when it comes to comment on other religions! For those who may have a serious interest in the subject, though, the Wikipedia article is very good, particularly in that it makes clear the differences between Buddhist, Jainist and Hindu concepts - and they are different.

THIS is an excellent introduction to the specific Buddhist perception of karma.


On a more general point, of course both karmic concepts and Buddhism in general are in "error" from a muslim perspective. Likewise, Islam is an example of 'ignorance' (that word has a very specific meaning in Buddhism) and delusion from a Buddhist prespective. Nobody (who knew what they were on about) has ever claimed the religions are compatible, and they most certainly are not. However it is my belief that, despite wildly differing perspectives, both muslims and Buddhists (and Christians, and Jews, and Hindus) are ultimately seeking the same thing. Sensible discussion and a genuine search from truth about what others think can help all those involved in such a search. You come to understand and respect their position, and oddly that can lead to clarification and reinforcement of your own beliefs. Your approach to this forum, however, achieves absolutely nothing.
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wilberhum
03-19-2007, 06:52 PM
these religions espouse many beliefs and practices that conflict with reason and logic.
As do all religions.
The way to ensuring real happiness and peace of mind in this world is the religion of Islam
Standard I'm right and every one else is wrong. My way is the only way.
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NoName55
03-19-2007, 07:32 PM
part 2

Karma is a superstitious belief that attracts people because of its mystical and mysterious air. It is an offence to human reason, conscience and creation in a great many ways.



Belief in karma is an important element in superstitious eastern religions such as decadent Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. Karma is a Sanskrit word meaning "action" or "movement". In Indian religions, karma is conceived of as "the law of cause and effect". According to those who believe in karma, in the future people will experience the consequences of whatever they have done in the past. Good comes from good, and evil from evil. It therefore follows that the situation they are in today is the result of the past.


No matter how much the philosophy of karma appears to encourage people towards ethical behaviour, it is in fundamental conflict with belief in the hereafter and a great many matters of faith described in the Qur'an.

According to this belief, however, what is meant by "the past" is the life that a person lived before their current life; what is meant by "the future" is their next life back on this Earth that will begin (or so it is claimed), after death. The reason for this is that the belief in karma is based on a belief in reincarnation-the belief that after death, people return to the world in a different body, and that this process of death and rebirth is continuous. It therefore follows that someone who believes in karma believes that in the so-called life they will have after death, whatever successes they have, whatever position in society they occupy and whatever way of life they enjoy will have been determined by how they behaved in their previous life and on their degree of morality in that life.

For example, someone who is rich and successful in this life is being rewarded with wealth for having been a good person in their previous life. In the same way (according to the concept of karma), someone who is poor, crippled or a failure in this life will have done bad things in their previous life and is now reaping the reward for those actions. In fact, it is claimed by those who subscribe to this superstitious belief system that people may take the form of plants or animals in their successive lives, depending on the nature of the evil they have done. Later in this book we will demonstrate in detail that belief in reincarnation is mere superstition.


According to the belief in karma, someone who is rich and famous has become so in return for the good deeds he performed in a previous life. Many people who believe in karma, however, also think that there is no Creator who might bring this justice about. The proponents of this philosophy believe that karma is a self-maintaining system.

At first sight it might appear that a belief in karma would provide a strong incentive for people to adopt attractive moral qualities, since they will want to enjoy the best possible conditions when they are reborn into this world. However, the belief in reincarnation and other superstitious concepts fostered by religions which espouse karma (such as Hinduism and decadent Buddhism), are contrary to human logic, human nature and the human conscience. Thus, the laws and practices of these religions cannot possibly endow people with good moral qualities; they cannot bring individuals peace of mind, inner confidence or happiness. The poor living conditions and the injustice prevalent in those countries where these religions are common or where they have, in fact, been adopted as the national religion, quite clearly demonstrate the truth of this.

One of the main reasons why some of the teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism attract attention is the interest shown in them by certain world-famous film stars and musicians. Some of these famous people have their photographs taken wearing Buddhist robes in Tibet, or they claim to have found peace of mind in meditation. Another thing that makes people interested in these religions is the aura of mystery and mysticism with which they are associated in the mind of the public.


This is a communication to be transmitted to mankind so that they may be warned by it and so that they will know that He is One God and so that people of intelligence will pay heed. (Surah Ibrahim: 52) But the great majority of people who are influenced by this mystical aura and who make a belief in karma the foundation for their way of life do not carry out any detailed investigation into these philosophies and do not think about them carefully enough. This is because they are too focused on the positive spiritual and moral aspects to see that these religions in their decadent conditions contain many beliefs that are inconsistent, illogical, and contrary to human nature and conscience, or perhaps they simply prefer to ignore these anomalies altogether.

However, anyone who wishes to escape from the difficult and depressing life they are leading and who sincerely wants all humanity to be able to live a life full of happiness and inner tranquility ought to make an effort to find the right way. Therefore, they should carefully investigate the philosophies by which they are influenced and should be inwardly certain which path is the most correct, the wisest and the one that best accords with their conscience.

The purpose of this book is to show people whose quest for the truth has led them to adopt the positive messages of the karma philosophy, that it is not the best path since it is derived from a religion based on myths, superstitions and practices that defy reason. The only way for people to live happily and enjoy peace of mind in this life and in their eternal life after death is for them to have faith in Allah and to act in accordance with the dictates of the Qur'an. The Qur'an is the book of truth revealed by our Lord, Allah, for the sake of thinking people; it is our only guide to salvation, bringing people from darkness into light. The only true way is to put into practice the ethics of the Qur'an and to fear Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who keeps people from wickedness, discord, cruelty, oppression, intolerance, despair, pessimism, unhappiness and every kind of reprehensible act, and to live in accord with the Sunnah of His Noble Messenger, Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.

continued ...
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wilberhum
03-19-2007, 07:39 PM
It is an offence to human reason, conscience and creation in a great many ways.
I think this statement applies to EVERY Religion.
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Trumble
03-19-2007, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
continued ...
If you must. But I would like to point out, again, that Harun Yahya really doesn't have the slightest clue what he is talking about. If his is the only perspective you are willing to absorb, then you will never have a clue either.

Trust me on that, or not, it's up to you. Let's just say my hopes aren't high. BTW, if I posted a series of articles in relation to Islam that are as distorted as Yayha's are about Buddhism I would be banned and out of here before I could say "dependent origination", and rightfully so. Just something for you to ponder on between cuts and pastes. :)
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wilberhum
03-19-2007, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
If you must. But I would like to point out, again, that Harun Yahya really doesn't have the slightest clue what he is talking about. If his is the only perspective you are willing to absorb, then you will never have a clue either.

Trust me on that, or not, it's up to you. Let's just say my hopes aren't high. BTW, if I posted a series of articles in relation to Islam that are as distorted as Yayha's are about Buddhism I would be banned and out of here before I could say "dependent origination", and rightfully so. Just something for you to ponder on between cuts and pastes. :)
Harun Yahya distortes better than Craig Winn.
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abena
05-23-2007, 08:06 AM
I thought karma was the concept that "what goes around comes around" which is a concept that is present in Islam, Chritianity, Judaism and most philosophies and religions. AS you sow, you will reap.
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Pygoscelis
05-23-2007, 06:16 PM
My Karma ran over your Dogma.
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NoName55
05-23-2007, 06:26 PM
I wish I was able to continue with the book but alas was told by an admin to discontinue for it upsets the kuffaar and causes them to insult our dear Brother Harun.

Since he, himself is not here to defend his works and I don't make a good job of defending him and end up upsetting them even more, so it was reccommended that I discontinue. :(

Ma'asalaama

P.S In my lexicon comparative does not mean debate or argument and personal abuse against me and the Ulemaa
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Kittygyal
05-23-2007, 06:34 PM
Salamualikum.
Harun wrote this? when?
ma'assalama
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NoName55
05-23-2007, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by Kittygyal
Salamualikum.
Harun wrote this? when?
ma'assalama
:wasalamex

I don't quite remember when but here is the link to the whole book:
Islam and Karma

Ma'asalaama

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Kittygyal
05-23-2007, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
:wasalamex

I don't quite remember when but here is the link to the whole book:
Islam and Karma

Ma'asalaama

Salamualikum.
Oh i thought Harun *me nephew* from here lol. Shilli me going on one again.
Anywho just to clear up and to know if i'm on the right track and not waffling along AGAIN you mean Harun Yahya ya? :D
Ma'assalama
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NoName55
05-23-2007, 07:19 PM
you mean Harun Yahya ya?
:) yes
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Kittygyal
05-23-2007, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
:) yes
Salamualikum.
Inshallah. Shukran
Ma'assalama
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Trumble
05-23-2007, 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
I wish I was able to continue with the book but alas was told by an admin to discontinue for it upsets the kuffaar and causes them to insult our dear Brother Harun.

The point is, I think, that forums like this are for the purpose of debate. If, for example, you had read Yayha's book and maybe a few other articles on the subject, and wished to present your own case against Buddhism I would be quite happy to address any points you raised. What it is simply unfair to do, IMHO, is to post something so critical of another religion that is far too large for adherents of that religion to respond to in any meaningful way. All you did was cut 'n paste, with no attempt to understand; anyone replying would need to put in substantial time and effort. Far more time than I consider justifiable when my assessment of the only person likely to read that response - you - is that you are unwilling to consider the matter remotely objectively, and so I would just be wasting my time.

To me that is the whole point of a comparative religion forum. While posters are certainly not obliged to accept anybody else's point of view I think they do have a certain obligation to at least try and understand it, consider it objectively, and give others a chance to respond. If you don't do that you are not debating, you are just preaching or, at the extreme, just 'Buddhism bashing' in a fashion that amounts to no more than propaganda. I can only suggest to anyone else passing through the thread that they try reading some 'neutral' and even Buddhist-written articles as well as Yahya and form their own opinion rather than just adopting his. If, for some strange reason, people actually enjoy reading Buddhist-bashing propaganda, I would certainly endorse Yahya as the place to go. :)
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NoName55
05-23-2007, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by Kittygyal
Salamualikum.
Inshallah. Shukran
Ma'assalama
You are most welcome wasalaam alaikum
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Curaezipirid
05-23-2007, 10:29 PM
My knowledge of Karma is that there are four sorts of karma.

I can not now remember the sanscrit words for the four sorts, so an apology in that.

But the four sorts related very directly to the real absolute density of matter at which it is experienced.

There is a karma of the physical bodily function, which can be understood to have reference to the nature of your body and its true story, or the ley line you are born within attunement to in the bones.

Then there is karma of the conscience, or emotion body.

A karma of Spirit.

And one overiding any other of Soul.

Each sort of karma is distinct but is the account in that density of matter of every part of what has been which is yet not acquitted in full in Allah.

I like the term karma because here in Australia many folk, whom otherwise are not at all religious, use it accurately.
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Curaezipirid
05-23-2007, 10:38 PM
The only real difficulty that I find in the modern Buddhist context is perhaps also not at all the fault of any Buddhist.

That is in respect of what is being taught by the shayteen in the name of Buddhism, of how they suppose to avoid their own karma.

I have witnessed such often enough being related in public meetings of the Theosophical Society, whose use of did truly scare me. But perhaps that is because I have witnessed the Rosicrucian path through the Theosophical Society, advocating to promote Buddhism directly at the expense of Australian Aboriginal belief and culture.

However, since I am witness to the inseminating events, and know how insidiously the sihr was worked against Buddhism, perhaps everybody ought to remember not to blame the Buddhists.
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