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AHMED_GUREY
03-19-2007, 11:54 PM
:sl:
A week ago i started a topic ''If women ruled'' promising a long reply but i just noticed it was reduced to ''another one of..'' and therefore ''merged''. My premature start of the topic with the smiling emoticons might have projected the wrong image of the subject in question since my intention behind it was ''serious'' and not ''halal fun'' so i'm requesting that the mods allow this thread to remain in it's unique ''seperate'' status:)

Ok let's get back to the issue at hand, ''Female rule'', usually when i make the statement Female rule is superior to Male rule i get the response be quite son (<-my pops and uncles ) or Women will eventually make the same decisions as Men in whatever platform there in <-- this is true..but why? because of the subconcious believe women have of having to proof themselves to the other gender or the society as a whole(<-true), that is why you will have both females and males feeling more comfortable working under a male as their boss or manager because they are more laid back than a female boss who is more strict( yet makes her company very happy[1]). If this could be rooted out of their system and they started feeling more in place in their surroundings instead of feeling the pressure of emulating their male counterparts they would return to their ''pure state'' and if we at the same time handed over power we would prosper like never seen before.

A man only wants to rule, divide and conquer, this is true there many countries if i had the means would love to teach a lesson but that is just the barbaric side of ''men'' that flows through my veins, a woman on the other hand doesn't have this weakness (if the beforementioned subconcious sociological pressure'' (i called it S.S.P) is rooted it that is), She wouldn't send her sons and daughters into unnecessary wars that kills other peoples sons and daughters aswell as hers, she wouldn't steal 300 billion $ from the bank and transfer it to overseas accounts while her children are dying, she wouldn't arm crazy rapists to wipe out a whole region for oil and many destructive things currently done globally by men wouldn't have taken place under a female dominated society

With ''female dominated society'' i mean every high ranking government seat in the world is hold by a woman, just so there isn't any danger of women suffering from the S.S.P syndrome.(:D ). But i know this will never happen since Allah swt didn't make this world so it could be transformed into a paradise cause if Allah swt wanted that, he would have put his female creations in power, no Allah swt decided men should rule which would create the perfect enviroment for a muslim to show his loyalty to his creator through hardship and barbaric suffering!

ok? :D

:w:
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iqbal_soofi
03-20-2007, 12:20 AM
Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
:sl:
A week ago i started a topic ''If women ruled'' promising a long reply but i just noticed it was reduced to ''another one of..'' and therefore ''merged''. My premature start of the topic with the smiling emoticons might have projected the wrong image of the subject in question since my intention behind it was ''serious'' and not ''halal fun'' so i'm requesting that the mods allow this thread to remain in it's unique ''seperate'' status:)

Ok let's get back to the issue at hand, ''Female rule'', usually when i make the statement Female rule is superior to Male rule i get the response be quite son (<-my pops and uncles ) or Women will eventually make the same decisions as Men in whatever platform there in <-- this is true..but why? because of the subconcious believe women have of having to proof themselves to the other gender or the society as a whole(<-true), that is why you will have both females and males feeling more comfortable working under a male as their boss or manager because they are more laid back than a female boss who is more strict( yet makes her company very happy[1]). If this could be rooted out of their system and they started feeling more in place in their surroundings instead of feeling the pressure of emulating their male counterparts they would return to their ''pure state'' and if we at the same time handed over power we would prosper like never seen before.

A man only wants to rule, divide and conquer, this is true there many countries if i had the means would love to teach a lesson but that is just the barbaric side of ''men'' that flows through my veins, a woman on the other hand doesn't have this weakness (if the beforementioned subconcious sociological pressure'' (i called it S.S.P) is rooted it that is), She wouldn't send her sons and daughters into unnecessary wars that kills other peoples sons and daughters aswell as hers, she wouldn't steal 300 billion $ from the bank and transfer it to overseas accounts while her children are dying, she wouldn't arm crazy rapists to wipe out a whole region for oil and many destructive things currently done globally by men wouldn't have taken place under a female dominated society

With ''female dominated society'' i mean every high ranking government seat in the world is hold by a woman, just so there isn't any danger of women suffering from the S.S.P syndrome.(:D ). But i know this will never happen since Allah swt didn't make this world so it could be transformed into a paradise cause if Allah swt wanted that, he would have put his female creations in power, no Allah swt decided men should rule which would create the perfect enviroment for a muslim to show his loyalty to his creator through hardship and barbaric suffering!

ok? :D

:w:


I think female domination is something different than female rule. Any female can become the leader of the house in a democratic country, but she has to follow the same constitution. In non domecratic countries, the female rule is not possible, because the undemocratic rule is always imposed through sword (military power and force). Religion is used only to justify the undemocratic rule. That's why there's no concept of a female rule in the religions.
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
03-20-2007, 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
I think female domination is something different than female rule.
A government dominated by women only would be considered ''female rule'' equivalant to the popular James Brown song ''this is a mans world'' today

Any female can become the leader of the house in a democratic country, but she has to follow the same constitution.
Yet will she abuse it for sinister gains? i doubt it

In non domecratic countries, the female rule is not possible, because the undemocratic rule is always imposed through sword (military power and force).
What is happening today in the middle east?? were they allready democratic? did i miss something?:D

Religion is used only to justify the undemocratic rule.
Shariah law is supreme!

That's why there's no concept of a female rule in the religions.
What about the East African female queen Sheba? she is mentioned as a just ruler
Reply

Muezzin
03-20-2007, 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
What about the East African female queen Sheba? she is mentioned as a just ruler
So are the first caliphs, and they are men.

I'm all for women in politics and everything, but I don't subscribe to the thinking that 'oh, if only a woman was in charge, she'd do everything better than men'. That's an inversion of the inequality women experience - instead of saying 'men are not better than women, they are both equal', it is saying 'women are better than men', and you end up with a reflection of what you started with. That's the problem with positive discrimination. It doesn't promote equality, it reverses the inequality. Big difference.

I think gender has little to do with justice and wisdom. Men and women both offer different, complementary perspectives on things. Justice comes from a way of thinking rather than a chromosone.
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iqbal_soofi
03-21-2007, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Justice comes from a way of thinking rather than a chromosone.
Very well said.
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
03-22-2007, 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
So are the first caliphs, and they are men.
Brother i never denied the fact that in History there were just men, if you trace back the part you quoted you will notice it was a reply to Iqbal's claim of there not being a concept or example of a Just female ruler in Religious text

I'm all for women in politics and everything, but I don't subscribe to the thinking that 'oh, if only a woman was in charge, she'd do everything better than men'.
then why is the universal and religious ''thought'' of a woman being a better carer of a ''child'' compared to her male counterpart seen as truthfull and correct? Shouldn't a father a ''man'' not be equal to a mother or a ''woman''? Why was she made responsible with the task of raising a child?(yeah i know she gave birth) and ( i know a man has his duties but still nothing compared to what a mother goes through)

Why should a woman somehow lose these superior qualities of resillience and patience when she becomes a leading figure?

That's an inversion of the inequality women experience - instead of saying 'men are not better than women, they are both equal', it is saying 'women are better than men', and you end up with a reflection of what you started with. That's the problem with positive discrimination. It doesn't promote equality, it reverses the inequality. Big difference.
I agree i might come of as a bit biased towards our sisters but can you blame me? look at all the stuff that is going around this planet all have the hallmarks of male destruction and greed:exhausted

I think gender has little to do with justice and wisdom. Men and women both offer different, complimentary perspectives on things. Justice comes from a way of thinking rather than a chromosone.
And you are aware that certain hormones like testosterone that men possess in greater numbers than women can change their whole view of the environment there in and in some cases in a negative way? are you saying this doesn't effect their decision making?
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
03-22-2007, 12:20 AM
:sl:
Brother Muezzin i will be busy the coming days so if you decide to reply, i will do the same when i have a break :) sorry!
:w:
Reply

Muezzin
04-05-2007, 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
then why is the universal and religious ''thought'' of a woman being a better carer of a ''child'' compared to her male counterpart seen as truthfull and correct? Shouldn't a father a ''man'' not be equal to a mother or a ''woman''? Why was she made responsible with the task of raising a child?(yeah i know she gave birth) and ( i know a man has his duties but still nothing compared to what a mother goes through)

Why should a woman somehow lose these superior qualities of resillience and patience when she becomes a leading figure?
I'm not saying she should lose those qualities. I'm just saying that Man and Woman are two sides of the same coin; they complete each other. One is not better than the other. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you are saying that women are superior and men are inferior, which I disagree with. I think they are complementary - two jigsaw pieces that fit together.

I agree i might come of as a bit biased towards our sisters but can you blame me? look at all the stuff that is going around this planet all have the hallmarks of male destruction and greed:exhausted
Destruction and greed are not exclusively male vices, unfortunately. Similarly, justice and wisdom are not exclusively female virtues.

And you are aware that certain hormones like testosterone that men possess in greater numbers than women can change their whole view of the environment there in and in some cases in a negative way? are you saying this doesn't effect their decision making?
Testosterone can affect men's decisions. Oestrogen can affect women's decisions. A just leader, of either sex, doesn't pander to their emotions or hormones, they do what is objectively fair. Just leaders (and good people) have to transcend baser instincts in order to do what is right. But anyone can be a fair person, man or woman.

I disagree with your assertion that women are somehow superior to men. I truly believe men and women complement each other, which is a beautiful thing.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
04-05-2007, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I disagree with your assertion that women are somehow superior to men. I truly believe men and women complement each other, which is a beautiful thing.
That's very right.

Any leader (man or woman) can lead the nation to the destination where the nation wants to go. That's is only possible if reins of the leader are in the hands of the nation. Otherwise, any ruler (man or woman) can mislead a nation to the grave if the reins of the nations are put into the hands of the ruler.

Unfortunately we're moving at a very fast speed to the grave of Ummah because many fanatics want to give the reins of Muslims into the hands of those who can take us nowhere but to our collective grave. Good thing about them is that they prepare us mentally for that destination.
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Allah-creation
04-05-2007, 02:15 AM
i really dont think any human being can rule better then omar al katab except Muhammed (SAW) of course.
Reply

atha
04-07-2007, 09:55 PM
Assalam-u-alaikum

I agree with brother. I used to be all angry about how men have more rights in certain aspects than women in Islam. Later, my Fiance discussed how these more rights mean more responsibilities. In a way, its a double edged sword. The way he described it, it made sense, Alhamdulillah.

But, still I have a mind of my own. So, after discussing this with him, I sat down alone and thought about it. Still some doubts lingering.

I gave it some time. And one day, I just realized something.

It kind of made sense. Men and women are complementary. If I wanted to argue that men are superior than women then the argument would be highly flawed b/c I can find counter-examples to the thesis. If I were to argue that women are superior than men then again, I can find several counter-examples. So, the truth must be that they are neither. They are in fact spiritually equally. What differences are in b/w them in this world are temporary and it all comes down to the fact that the differences b/w them are to create a balance b/w them.They are supposed to balance each other out inshaAllah. Its like when you have a broken locket and one piece is missing. The locket will be complete when the two pieces come together. Then it will be complete and beautiful (given we can make it look unbroken) hehee. Not a good example. But you get what I am trying to say right. Men and women are complementary to each other inshaAllah. So, all those people who talk about men being superior to women are women being superior to men are deluded and far away from truth. As taught in Quran, nobody is superior to each other except by way of piety.

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-alaikum


Originally Posted by Muezzin
I'm not saying she should lose those qualities. I'm just saying that Man and Woman are two sides of the same coin; they complete each other. One is not better than the other. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you are saying that women are superior and men are inferior, which I disagree with. I think they are complementary - two jigsaw pieces that fit together.

I disagree with your assertion that women are somehow superior to men. I truly believe men and women complement each other, which is a beautiful thing.
Reply

iqbal_soofi
04-07-2007, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by atha
Assalam-u-alaikum

I agree with brother. I used to be all angry about how men have more rights in certain aspects than women in Islam. Later, my Fiance discussed how these more rights mean more responsibilities. In a way, its a double edged sword. The way he described it, it made sense, Alhamdulillah.

But, still I have a mind of my own. So, after discussing this with him, I sat down alone and thought about it. Still some doubts lingering.

I gave it some time. And one day, I just realized something.

It kind of made sense. Men and women are complementary. If I wanted to argue that men are superior than women then the argument would be highly flawed b/c I can find counter-examples to the thesis. If I were to argue that women are superior than men then again, I can find several counter-examples. So, the truth must be that they are neither. They are in fact spiritually equally. What differences are in b/w them in this world are temporary and it all comes down to the fact that the differences b/w them are to create a balance b/w them.They are supposed to balance each other out inshaAllah. Its like when you have a broken locket and one piece is missing. The locket will be complete when the two pieces come together. Then it will be complete and beautiful (given we can make it look unbroken) hehee. Not a good example. But you get what I am trying to say right. Men and women are complementary to each other inshaAllah. So, all those people who talk about men being superior to women are women being superior to men are deluded and far away from truth. As taught in Quran, nobody is superior to each other except by way of piety.

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-alaikum


A master have to fulfill more responsiblities than a slave. Can you justify slavery in the same way you justified the domination of women?

No man would like that his wife marries another man at the same time. Similarly no woman likes the same for her husband. Majority of Muslim men respect the good wishes of their wives and don't go for polygamy. Only a very small fraction of Muslim men took advantage of the liberty given by Islam to marry as many women (four at a time) and kept many slave women for sex.
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atha
04-12-2007, 04:44 AM
Hi

I think I gave the wrong impression. I didn't intend to justify the domination of women. All I was saying is that there are subtle differences b/w them and that these differences are only there to create harmony b/w the opposite sexes. I believe you misunderstood the message I was trying to convey.

By the way, women domination is something I won't allow in my presence. If I were to see a woman unjustly treated, I would do something about it even it includes kicking that guy's behind. I mean, Islam has made me into a very strong woman and I won't allow anyone to dominate or oppress me. When I choose to wear hijab I do so out of my own free will. When I listen to my parents or when I will (in the future) listen to what my husband's advice, I will do so out of my own free will. And yes, I will not agree with him on each and everything he says or suggests b/c I have my own mindset. The only things I am sure I will agree with him are the Quran and the Sunnah. Other than that, if he asks me oh Arzoo, kindly make sure to water the plants in my absence, given that I am busy elsewhere, I will just tell him to it himself, b/c I am busy man. But then again, I might fall in love and do his every bidding as he shall do mine. :-) So, when I will obey him (in the future) I will do so out of fear of Allah Subhannah Wa Taalah and not out of fear of the guy. Fear of the guy!! Hehehe, a believer and a martial arts student like me doesn't fear men alhamdulillah. True, Islam assigns different duties and rules to men and women but these aren't supposed to subjugate one sex and allow the other sex to dominate. The only domination is that of Allah Subhannah Wa Taalah. And know that the greater rights of men over women are only due to their greater responsibilities. As my Fiance puts it, the "greater right thing" is a double edged sword in that in the Hereafter Allah will account one for one's duties which allowed such rights to exist in the first place. For example, in Islam men are responsible for providing food, clothing, shelter etc. to the women and the kids. (Jee! aren't the ladies given a big break in Islam.) I mean if they decide to chill and relax or perhaps dedicate their entire life to learning martial arts and taking care of the family, they can do so. They have it neat and easy. Other way around, they can take a job, take care of the family and won't have to spend a dime on the family. (Yes! more money for her own clothing and make up :-) )We muslimahs have it so easy. But just b/c the guy does more work, he does have more rights, for example the guys get a bigger share in inheritance. Why??? When I didn't understand Islam properly, I used to get annoyed about such different rulings. But now that I see the bigger picture, it makes more sense. They get more share b/c they have to spend their stuff on their wives and children. Its their duty. (poor guys; tut, tut :-), hehehe, didn't mean to be mean brothers) Now, we women we get our parents to take care of us, our brothers and our husbands to take care of us. What do we need to worry about. We do have a share in property, We do work outside, we get to keep the money to ourselves b/c we aren't obligated to spend it on our family and we do have our freedom in doing any other halal activity that interests us including sports. Yes, there are differences in rulings pertaining to men and women but these differences don't oppress or dominate either sex but are rather a recognition of their biological and psychological differences.

I hope I didn't rant too much. The above is a passionate subject. See, I have this very interesting history which makes me very very passionate about this subject and also very pro for rights of women. You are lucky that you got away so easy by stating that I justified domination of women. I mean the moderators would have deleted my other post where I would have been more so passionate about answering your statement. So, sorry if I went on and on and strayed from the actual question.

Now, I shall cover your question about slavery in the next post inshaallah.

Take care
Kind Regards

Peace Out.


Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
A master have to fulfill more responsiblities than a slave. Can you justify slavery in the same way you justified the domination of women?

No man would like that his wife marries another man at the same time. Similarly no woman likes the same for her husband. Majority of Muslim men respect the good wishes of their wives and don't go for polygamy. Only a very small fraction of Muslim men took advantage of the liberty given by Islam to marry as many women (four at a time) and kept many slave women for sex.
Reply

atha
04-12-2007, 06:11 AM
So, with regards to slavery, I found this fatwa that says it all quite well. Kindly view inshaAllah.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title:
Concept of Female Slaves in the Qur'an

Question:

I have recently started reading Quran with its translation and there are a few issues that disturb me. Firstly, the concept of slaves in Quran is a very disturbing one, especially considering how our religion promotes freedom and submission to Allah only. Secondly. Where Quran mentions the prohibition of illegal sexual intercourse, the only exceptions are with a person's wife or SLAVES/ CAPTIVES that their right hand possesses. Don't you think this again is a violation of basic human rights?

I understand that what I am asking may be considered blasphemic, but I am honestly looking for an answer to such questions and I also understand that my knowledge of Islam is limited. Please guide me.

Thanks


Answer:

I can tell that you are only trying to understand and that your question is not meant to be a criticism against the Almighty nor against His Divine Revelation. The Almighty knows this better than anyone. Therefore, I feel that you have nothing to worry about in this regard, Inshallah.

You write:

"Firstly, the concept of slaves in Quran is a very disturbing one, especially considering how our religion promotes freedom and submission to Allah only."

We must remain conscious of the fact that the Qur'an was revealed in an environment in which slavery was accepted as a normal social custom. This custom was around for so long that everybody accepted it. Had you and I been living there at the time, we too would have seen nothing wrong with it. Therefore, it should be cleared up at the outset that the Qur'an neither created this practice nor encouraged it in any way, shape or form. It only accepted that this has been deeply rooted in that society and would not be eradicated easily. So, a simple demand to free all slaves was unrealistic. Besides, the slaves; many of which were elderly poor people, had nowhere to go and would therefore probably end up becoming beggars and only further the burden upon society. As such, a gradual approach had to be taken for the eradication of this vice. Please remember that the steps toward this taken by the Qur'an would have been seen as abnormal to the people of the time, as keeping slaves feels to you and I. It should be recognized that slavery was a social phenomenon of an international nature, Islam could not have completely abolished slavery, while the world culture remained the same.

So let us take a look at the approach by the Qur'an toward eradicating this custom. It is well known that the Qur'an declared from the very beginning that freeing slaves is amongst a believer's acts of virtues which illustrate most beautifully, his compassion and kindness toward fellow humans. It commended and encouraged this while condemning those who were against it:

"But he has made no effort on the uphill path. And what will make you know the uphill path? It is freeing a slave, or giving food on a day of hunger, to the orphan near of kin, or to the poor person down in the dust - then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patient perseverance, and enjoin kindness and compassion." - Al Balad 90:12-13

It goes yet further by declaring that those who see any goodness in their slaves should free them and even if the slaves do not have the ability to pay for their own freedom, they should be helped towards it. Furthermore, people were forbidden from treating their slaves inhumanely and forcing them into prostitution:

"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if you are aware of any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you. Force not your slave-girls to prostitution merely that you may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, while they would actually like to remain chaste. And if one forces them, then, after being compelled, Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful (to these slaves)." - Al Nur 24:33

Alms were only to be for certain good purposes, among which freeing slaves is again one of them:

"The alms are only for the poor and the needy, and those who collect them, and those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free the slaves and the debtors, and for the cause of Allah, and for the wayfarer; a duty imposed by Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise." - Al Tawbah 9:60

If a person committed a sin, freeing a slave was a noble form of expiation or atonement or penance:

"Allah will not take you to task for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will take you to task for the oaths which you deliberately make. For expiation is the feeding of ten of the needy with the average of that wherewith you feed your own families, or the clothing of them, or the liberation of a slave, and for him who does not find the means should fast for three days. This is the expiation for the oaths you have sworn. But keep your oaths. Thus Allah clarifies unto you His verses in order that you may be grateful." - Al Ma'idah 5:89

Prisoners of war were not to be taken as slaves but rather released as a favour or for a ransom. Historically speaking, enslaving prisoners of war was a primary mode through which a free man was made a slave, by abolishing this mode, Islam closed the doors for Muslims to add to the existing slave population in the world:

"So when you meet the rejecters in battle, smite their necks until you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favour or let them be ransomed until the war lays down its armour. That (is how it shall be); and if Allah had pleased He could have punished them (without you), but (He did not do so in order) that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never allow their deeds to be worthless." - Muhammad 47:4

From the Seerah of the Prophet (pbuh), we know that he worked in accordance to the Qur'anic verses, freeing slaves and also providing the best example of how compassionately they should be dealt with. He (pbuh) would advise people to use terms like "my son" and "my child" rather than "my slave" when referring to them. He wanted them to be considered as part of the family and thus be treated well. For this reason, the Prophet (pbuh) took the ill-treatment of slaves very seriously as can be seen from many narrations such as the following:

Abu Mas'ud al-Ansari reported: "When I was beating my servant, I heard a voice behind me (saying): Abu Mas'ud, bear in mind Allah has more dominance over you than you have upon him (i.e. that slave). I turned and (found him) to be Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). I said: Allah's Messenger, I set him free for the sake of Allah. Thereupon he said: Had you not done that, (the gates of) Hell would have opened for you, or the fire would have burnt you." (Sahih Muslim, Book 15, Hadith number 4088)

Narrated Al-Ma'rur: At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet (pbuh) said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names? You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity and if you do so, then help them.' (Sahih Bukhari Book 2, Hadith number 29)"

Abdullah Ibn Umar narrated that a man came to the Prophet (pbuh) and asked: "Messenger of Allah! How often shall I forgive a servant?" He gave no reply, so the man repeated what he had said, but he still kept silent. When he asked a third time, he replied: "Forgive him seventy times daily." (Abu Dawud, Book 36, Hadith number 5145)

The Prophet (pbuh) was narrated to have said; "He who slaps his slave or beats him, the expiation for it is that he should set him free" (Sahih Muslim, Book 15, Hadith number 407)

Considering all of this, I really cannot see how the Qur'an displays a "disturbing concept" in regards to slaves. Actually, I reckon that the Qur'an provided the best groundwork toward the actual abolition of slavery itself. Had the Qur'an decided to declare slavery forbidden immediately rather than gradually removing it while giving a set of rules for their better treatment in the mean time, then it would have caused various problems on different levels. In the world at the time, there were such a huge number of slaves that releasing them would have left them without food, money, jobs and care. Many of them were already very vulnerable and would therefore never have been able to cope with such a thing. The societies would never have been able to provide for them all and they may as a result have turned to illegal means to earn a living (e.g. brothels may have been opened etc). Thus, there was wisdom behind the decision to abolish slavery gradually rather than immediately.

You write:

"Secondly, where Quran mentions the prohibition of illegal sexual intercourse, the only exceptions are with a person's wife or SLAVES/ CAPTIVES that their right hand possesses."

Having explained what the social customs were at the time, it should be understood that sexual intercourse with one's slave was considered part of the norm. The slaves too saw nothing wrong in this. In fact, before the advent of Islam the slaves were considered no more than their master's possessions and therefore absolutely anything could be done with them. In other words, they could even take their slaves' lives when and as they pleased. Islam removed such vices and raised them to the position of fellow humans with similar rights. However, as long as slavery was not completely removed, having sexual relations remained part of the master-slave relationship.

I hope this enables you to get a better grasp and appreciation of the issue.

Regards,

Hischam Khan

Source:http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...97&sscatid=451

Very tired now. Going to go sleep now. I have to go to work tommorrow.

Take care everyone
Bye/Peace Out/Assalam-u-alaikum

Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
A master have to fulfill more responsiblities than a slave. Can you justify slavery in the same way you justified the domination of women?

No man would like that his wife marries another man at the same time. Similarly no woman likes the same for her husband. Majority of Muslim men respect the good wishes of their wives and don't go for polygamy. Only a very small fraction of Muslim men took advantage of the liberty given by Islam to marry as many women (four at a time) and kept many slave women for sex.
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
04-22-2007, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I'm not saying she should lose those qualities. I'm just saying that Man and Woman are two sides of the same coin; they complete each other. One is not better than the other. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you are saying that women are superior and men are inferior, which I disagree with. I think they are complementary - two jigsaw pieces that fit together.

Destruction and greed are not exclusively male vices, unfortunately. Similarly, justice and wisdom are not exclusively female virtues.

Testosterone can affect men's decisions. Oestrogen can affect women's decisions. A just leader, of either sex, doesn't pander to their emotions or hormones, they do what is objectively fair. Just leaders (and good people) have to transcend baser instincts in order to do what is right. But anyone can be a fair person, man or woman.

I disagree with your assertion that women are somehow superior to men. I truly believe men and women complement each other, which is a beautiful thing.
:sl:
you convinced me:)

:clever:

still i got strange theories racing through my head:unhappy: don't be suprised with more weird topics in the future:D

:w:
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