What will we Muslims lose if there is no GOD ???

[Hemoo]

What will we Muslims lose if there is no GOD ??? :?

In here I will deal with this question from a probability and statistically point of view

So keep reading

What will we lose if there is no GOD ,as a matter of fact we didn’t lose and will not lose a big deal you know why ?

Because if there is no GOD then when we all die it will be the end ,no one will be punished and no one will be awarded as well ,so this will be the end of it and we will not lose any thing .

No one has lost any thing because if that is so then we are all equal , we are all just died ,we will be all vanished…


We Muslims didn’t have any trouble by worshiping one GOD alone with no partners .

We can eat every kind of food except a few things (like pork and non slaughtered animals and every thing that is harmful)
We can drink any kind of syrup except a few types of drinks (like wine and impure drinks and blood and every thing that is harmful )

So we Muslims are worshiping GOD and also are enjoying our life
Both males and females can get married and enjoy our marriages.(we don’t have to do prohibited adultery).
We can make journeys and enjoy traveling
We can work and get money and spend it to gain physical allowed enjoyments (like eating the allowed ,drinking , marrying , traveling , reading books , studying and becoming scientists and so on)
We are being kind to others and we help people and treat out fathers and mothers well and obey our parents for Allah’s sake .

But if there is a GOD then

any one who haven’t believed in that or didn’t worship him will surely lose a lot especially after he dies because all sorts of punishments will be waiting for him and he will enter eternal Hell with no chance to get out of it and you know what he deserved it.


More to say that :

FIRST :- If Jews will go to paradise because they worshiped one GOD and believe in all God’s prophets including Moses (peace be upon him) and the holy scriptures sent by GOD and because Jews obey the ten commandments ..

Then Muslims is more worthy to go to paradise because they worship one GOD and they believe in all the prophets send by GOD including prophet Moses (peace be upon him) and they believe in all the original scriptures came with those prophets with the addition that we also believe in the last messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) and believe in God’s last send book named the Qur`an and Muslims also have commands and orders that is mainly better than the ten commandments.

SECOND : if Christians will go to paradise because they believe in all previous prophets and specially in Jesus (peace be upon him) and his miraculous birth and be cause they love Jesus and his virgin mother and they admire both of them.

Then Muslims is more worthy to go to paradise because they believe in all the previous prophets and we never denied the miracles of them (like prophet Moses stick and prophet Jesus healing the diseased and prophet soleman having the jinn obeying his orders and prophet Joseph’s visions that came true and so all other prophets) and we love and admire prophet Jesus and his mother and we believe in his miraculous birth
And in addition we believe in the prophet Muhammad and we love and admire him and we affirm his miracles and obey his orders.


So a conclusion of all that is above Muslims will never lose a thing if they persist to be Muslims till they die.

If there is a GOD we will go to paradise and if there is not we will not suffer in our after life..

But there is a scary probability that atheists will lose every thing in there future after death and this loss will be for eternity
And the same thing can be said to Jews and Christians and all other current false religions

Then all those who have not believed in Islam will say the following :

In the Qur`an translation chapter 6:


006.027
If thou couldst see when they are set before the Fire and say: Oh, would that we might return! Then would we not deny the revelations of our Lord but we would be of the believers!

006.028
Nay, but that hath become clear unto them which before they used to hide. And if they were sent back they would return unto that which they are forbidden. Lo! they are liars.
006.029
And they say: There is nothing but our life of this world, and we shall not be raised

006.030
And could you see when they are made to stand before their Lord. He will say: Is not this the truth? They will say: Yea! by our Lord. He will say: Taste then the chastisement because you disbelieved.

006.031
They are losers indeed who reject the meeting of Allah; until when the hour comes upon them all of a sudden they shall say: O our grief for our neglecting it! and they shall bear their burdens on their backs; now surely evil is that which they bear.

006.032
What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will ye not then understand?





And finally I say peace on those who follow their Creator’s guide ..:thumbs_up


************************************************** *****

[------]

:salamext:

Very nice post, Jazak Allâh Khayr for sharing, may Allâh swt reward u!

['Abd al-Baari]

:sl:

Nice post
Jazakallah for sharing

[Hemoo]

sister muj4h1d4 & brother abdullah2907

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركانه
and jazakum allah khayran for your nice words

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Zone Maker]

Wow…………..I never saw it this way!:thumbs_up
Thanks.

:w:

[Pygoscelis]

It is amazing how often Pascal's Wager pops into the minds of theists. We've had numerous threads about it on this very forum. It is flawed in many ways.

Pascal's Wager is that its safer to believe in God than not to believe in God, because you lose nothing if you believe and there is no god, but lose everything if you do not believe and there is a god.

1. Can you control if you believe or not? Can you do it for a selfish reason like this reward/punishment dynamic? Would belief motivated by this be genuine and rewarded by God?

2. Maybe the real God (not the one you picked) will be more upset with you worshiping a false God than worshiping no God. Many holy books seem to hint at this.

3. Following the logic of the wager, you should believe in and worship the God with the worst imaginable punishment for not doing so. And even then, there could be an infinite number of other possible Gods with that same punishment.

4. Maybe God doesn't want to be worshiped, and punishes anyone who annoys him by worship.

4. THe wager shows a complete lack of morality. Bowing down to a God based soley on how he may torture you if you don't.

5. You most certainly DO lose by worshiping. You waste time that could be spent more constructively. You accept a bunch of dogma that usually includes negative things. You may even cut yourself off from friendship with entire groups of other people due to the dogma you follow due to their worldview or even gender.

[Hemoo]

1. Can you control if you believe or not? Can you do it for a selfish reason like this reward/punishment dynamic? Would belief motivated by this be genuine and rewarded by God?

in islam we are supposed to obey Allah and mainley do the five pillars of islam to become muslims

and islamic texts say that the faith does increase by doing the obedience and that faith lessens after doing a Sin


and we are really worshiping ALLAH between two mental cases
between Fearing of Allah and loving of ALLAH and so desiring all that ALLAH can give us.


if we do that and we are being sincere and do it for the sake of ALLAH then we are granted the reward from ALLAH.

2. Maybe the real God (not the one you picked) will be more upset with you worshiping a false God than worshiping no God. Many holy books seem to hint at this.

there is only one True GOD and I am sure that i am worshiping him..there is no "maybe's" in this situation.

and let me rephrase what you said "if there is a GOD then i am sure i am worshiping him"


and its ridiculous that you say its better to deny god than worshiping a false one ..that is nor really a logical conclusion..

3. Following the logic of the wager, you should believe in and worship the God with the worst imaginable punishment for not doing so. And even then, there could be an infinite number of other possible Gods with that same punishment..

as i said he is only one GOD , so i ask you to try to obey him as possible as you can or else :raging:

4. Maybe God doesn't want to be worshiped, and punishes anyone who annoys him by worship..

that is the funniest "Maybe" that i have ever seen , the religions say that GOD created us to worship him ,
God did not create all this for vain ..

if you say this it means that you don't know what is the meaning of a creator


and i will say to you why did humans create computer ,did they created computer to be used or to be only created for one purpose that is of just creating a computer
and so on every invention we do , why did we invent it ???

4. THe wager shows a complete lack of morality. Bowing down to a God based soley on how he may torture you if you don't..

okay you say that you are willing to be thrown for ever in hell fire ,that's your choice and this is not my choice.

5. You most certainly DO lose by worshiping. You waste time that could be spent more constructively. You accept a bunch of dogma that usually includes negative things. You may even cut yourself off from friendship with entire groups of other people due to the dogma you follow due to their worldview or even gender.

the best time to spend is to worship your creator and not to play or sleep or eat , etc


wasting times is when you do something for nothing but based on the stastical theory we muslims are working for the best possibilities.



in islam there is no worshiping is to be called as negative thing because islam is mainly looking for all benefits (advantages) and to rule out any damages (disadvantages)




and finally salam on those who follow the true path of ALLAH

[IbnAbdulHakim]

1. Can you control if you believe or not? Can you do it for a selfish reason like this reward/punishment dynamic? Would belief motivated by this be genuine and rewarded by God?

Yes, your actions impact your heart, and its your heart through which faith must enter.

2. Maybe the real God (not the one you picked) will be more upset with you worshiping a false God than worshiping no God. Many holy books seem to hint at this.

Dont worry, we have the Quran, find a book more fit for God then that and let me know.

3. Following the logic of the wager, you should believe in and worship the God with the worst imaginable punishment for not doing so. And even then, there could be an infinite number of other possible Gods with that same punishment.

The punishments are not imaginable. Every other acclaimed religion has been proven wrong to the point where questioning is not allowed and blind faith is encouraged apart from Islam.

4. Maybe God doesn't want to be worshiped, and punishes anyone who annoys him by worship.

Do not completely ignore the messengers, if you believe in a God then know that he has sent messengers to instruct mankind and we have been instructed to worship him. Would you create a gizmo without a manual? i dont think so! Would school children be told to go to school and just sit there? i dont think so! They will have a teacher, like us we have our prophets!

4. THe wager shows a complete lack of morality. Bowing down to a God based soley on how he may torture you if you don't.

this shows pride and arrogance, if the creator has instructed us to bow then only the stupid will resist knowing that the fire is their recompense. Satan was surely one of the stupid.

5. You most certainly DO lose by worshiping. You waste time that could be spent more constructively. You accept a bunch of dogma that usually includes negative things. You may even cut yourself off from friendship with entire groups of other people due to the dogma you follow due to their worldview or even gender.

worshipping not only enlightens us but fills us with peace, a peace you cant attain with all the riches in the world. If the kings knew they would take out their swords to rob this peace from us.


so i say


P
E
A
C
E

[Hemoo]

this shows pride and arrogance, is the creator has instructed us to bow then only the stupid will resist knowing that the fire is their recompense. Satan was surely one of the stupid.

first of all Thank you my brother for supporting and it was nice the example of the school . i say jazak Allah khayran.

and yes my brother IbnAbdulhakim you are right

it's pride and arrogance that makes the unbelievers don't want to accept the truth and they blinds their eyes and minds so that they don't see the clear Facts,

they even wants to works their arrogance on their Creator and Sustainer

on the one who can make him now ill and can grant him the cure

your whole body and life and soul is under the capability of ALLAH

[Pygoscelis]

and islamic texts say that the faith does increase by doing the obedience and that faith lessens after doing a Sin

That is rather circular. It only works if you already believe and hold the Quran to be a holy book and true. When I was a kid I tried to be Christian like my parents and it simply didn't take - I was being dishonest when I said I believed. I doubt pretending to believe in Islam would make me become muslim either (not that I'd want to).

There is only one True GOD and I am sure that i am worshiping him..there is no "maybe's" in this situation.

You have abandoned logic and and leaped to faith.

and its ridiculous that you say its better to deny god than worshiping a false one ..that is nor really a logical conclusion..

I don't know about the Quran, but the bible has entire chapters dedicated to God killing off people who worhiped false Gods. Much more about this in the bible than about atheists.

That God would punish misbelievers more than nonbelievers may not be a for sure conclusion, but it seems more likely as the opposite.

as i said he is only one GOD , so i ask you to try to obey him as possible as you can or else

lol! You are making cute little threats now.

No there isn't "only one GOD". There are no Gods. See? I can make bold assertions too. They don't get us anywhere.

that is the funniest "Maybe" that i have ever seen , the religions say that GOD created us to worship him

Couldn't they be wrong? Do you believe everything you hear?

God did not create all this for vain

We don't know that. Maybe he did. Maybe he was playing around one day because he was bored and decided to create us, and then like a kid with an anthill, poke at us for a while with floods and famines and locuts and other crazy biblical things, and then he got bored and went on to other things - and thats why we don't see those huge events anymore. Could be. And maybe if we pray too much we'll get his attention and distract him from his current project and he'll destroy us out of annoyance.

You can't prove otherwise. So given what we know, it is just as likely as your religious claims.

and i will say to you why did humans create computer ,did they created computer to be used or to be only created for one purpose that is of just creating a computer

You mean in the lab or once they were released to market? The machines in the lab were created exactly for the sole purpose of being created. Its called a prototype. And anyway, why assume the universe is like a computer? Maybe its more like a painting - important to God only for aestheticsr? Or maybe its like a doodle - something God made when he was bored and places zero importance on? Or maybe its even a mistake God hasn't noticed and corrected yet.

okay you say that you are willing to be thrown for ever in hell fire ,that's your choice and this is not my choice.

I find it a little disturbing that you'd follow this part of Pascal's Wager. Surely there are other reasons to obey God than that he will strike you down if you don't, like a tyrant? Pascal's Wager omits them completely. Obedience based on fear isn't something to be commended.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

No there isn't "only one GOD". There are no Gods. See? I can make bold assertions too. They don't get us anywhere.

I think someone will be really surprised when they die...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

You have abandoned logic and and leaped to faith.

did you read my post? do you think i also abandoned logic?

[Pygoscelis]

Every other acclaimed religion has been proven wrong to the point where questioning is not allowed and blind faith is encouraged apart from Islam.

Every other religion has been proven false? That is an awfully bold claim to be casually tossing around. Awfully arrogant to just think others would accept because you say so too. Christians think the only way to God is through Jesus Christ. Muslims think Islam is the path. There is no reason beyond faith to accept either claim, and certainly no reason to accept one over the other (or the other hundreds of possbible god beliefs).

Do not completely ignore the messengers, if you believe in a God then know that he has sent messengers to instruct mankind and we have been instructed to worship him.

Men certainly have claimed to speak for God. The Pharoah even claimed to BE God. Its a nice way to get people to live their lives they way you tell them to. Of course there is no way to know if these people actually ARE gods or messengers from Gods, but I certainly doubt it.

Why would God need messengers? A real God could just have you know what he wants you to know.

this shows pride and arrogance, if the creator has instructed us to bow then only the stupid will resist knowing that the fire is their recompense. Satan was surely one of the stupid.

Why must God always be potrayed as a mad tyrant? I see no reason why a real God would care if her creation worshiped her.

[Pygoscelis]

:sl:



I think someone will be really surprised when they die...

Indeed. You will be quite alarmed when you face Anubis as he discovers you have been worshiping a false God claiming to be the only God.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Every other religion has been proven false? That is an awfully bold claim to be casually tossing around. Awfully arrogant to just think others would accept because you say so too. Christians think the only way to God is through Jesus Christ. Muslims think Islam is the path. There is no reason beyond faith to accept either claim, and certainly no reason to accept one over the other (or the other hundreds of possbible god beliefs).

Its not bold at all, whenever i hear christians speak all i hear is "BELIEEVE!! YOU WIILL BE SAVED", it escapes all logic, their bible has corruptions according to 32 scholars of the highest eminence backed up by 50 denominations. It has grave errors, it has scenes of incest!

Men certainly have claimed to speak for God. The Pharoah even claimed to BE God. Its a nice way to get people to live their lives they way you tell them to. Of course there is no way to know if these people actually ARE gods or messengers from Gods, but I certainly doubt it.

find ONE thing any of the messengers have gained through claiming to be the prophet if not pain and tragedy! Why would anyone just do this for no reason. Also why do you overlook all the facts clearly pointing towards prophethood, get over this intellectual boastful exterior and look deeper within. Anyone who studies the lives of any of these prophets will realise the truth.

Why would God need messengers? A real God could just have you know what he wants you to know.

Do you not know the story of Adam and the Satan. Im sure you've heard it many times but this life is a test! and my friend, you arent passing. A test isnt easy, you must strive to find the truth, if you wallow in ignorance you will only beget the fire....

Why must God always be potrayed as a mad tyrant? I see no reason why a real God would care if her creation worshiped her.

mad tyrant? audhubillah, without even trying to understand if there is a God and without even trying to understand the attributes of God you make such a claim, may Allah guide you!

[wilberhum]

Is it just me being me or what? I find it quite odd. A thread titled

What will we Muslims lose if there is no GOD ???

And then the poster bases all there arguments on the basis that there is a god.
But as Pygoscelis pointed out, the argument is just another Pascal's Wager

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
After reading several posts on this, I decided I might as well join in (my apologies in advance if you think I and/or my opinions suck).

You have abandoned logic and and leaped to faith.

Indeed, but that is what religion is all about: faith.

Couldn't they be wrong? Do you believe everything you hear?

Remember that five letter F word I mentioned a couple of sentences above?

We don't know that. Maybe he did. Maybe he was playing around one day because he was bored and decided to create us, and then like a kid with an anthill, poke at us for a while with floods and famines and locuts and other crazy biblical things, and then he got bored and went on to other things - and thats why we don't see those huge events anymore. Could be. And maybe if we pray too much we'll get his attention and distract him from his current project and he'll destroy us out of annoyance.

You seem to have such a negative view on God.

You can't prove otherwise. So given what we know, it is just as likely as your religious claims.

Valid point.

And anyway, why assume the universe is like a computer? Maybe its more like a painting - important to God only for aestheticsr? Or maybe its like a doodle - something God made when he was bored and places zero importance on? Or maybe its even a mistake God hasn't noticed and corrected yet.

The assumption that is being made here is that God has similarities to man - this is incorrect. If one has an understanding of the concept of God, one would not make this assumption.

I find it a little disturbing that you'd follow this part of Pascal's Wager. Surely there are other reasons to obey God than that he will strike you down if you don't, like a tyrant? Pascal's Wager omits them completely. Obedience based on fear isn't something to be commended.

I and many muslims do not obey God based on fear, thank you very much. I obey Him as I would my parents: unconditionally and with the utmost respect. If there is a contributing factor to me carrying out a good deed it is that the action will be rewarded in the afterlife.

Relating to the orginal question: well, we would just die in it? No heaven no hell. Just 6 feet of earth.

[Pygoscelis]

I and many muslims do not obey God based on fear, thank you very much. I obey Him as I would my parents: unconditionally and with the utmost respect.

I can respect that. I imagine there are additional reasons people believe and follow as well. But Pascal's Wager's logic (which I was addressing) is about the punishment/reward dynamic.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Aamirsaab you dont ever think (omg if i do this sin Allah will punish me?) or (omg if i miss dis prayer i might end up in hell for 80 years) etc etc.

of course lets not be dum we also think (Alhamdulillah for this beautiful wife which God bestowed) and (Alhamdulillah for these great gifts given only by God out of mercy) we love and fear him!

[NoName55]

What will we Muslims lose if there is no GOD ?

As a Muslim,it is a none-question for me so what am I doing replying to it ... I'd better get out of it before I say some thing

[noodles]

Here is my little Tid-Bit somewhat logical take on some of the things we are discussing in this thread.

I find that most people be it Muslim, Christian, Atheist or any other religion try to find a purpose. They question themselves and in doing so very much limit their thinking. Anyway, My point is that everything serves a purpose in this world. Or multiple purposes.

Pygoscelis compared us to a painting, well let me ask you, what purpose does a painting serve? Is it not for your entertainment?

I ask you, so what? What if god created us for his own entertainment, the point is that he created us for a purpose, and that is his entertainment.

Likewise, what's the purpose of an actor? Is it not to entertain?
What's the purpose of a fly? It is the one of the most annoying critters according to us, yet they too serve a purpose. [Now I dont know what it is, but surely they do something to help the environment]

Similarly, what is the purpose of a flower? it is for us use for certain ailments, foods or perfumes. But wait, it also serves another purpose, to look beautiful.

Us humans also serve multiple purposes. However, we get so involved in trying to find the proof of these claims that we make that we lose sight of the objective.


As a side note, I ask you people who are on the other side of the argument that why is so hard for you to believe?

You are so quick to believe scientists when they hypothesize their theories, and because they are so knowledgeable, you believe them even though you've got no proof on your hands. However, when someone shows proof to you, and you know the person had no knowledge of it and claims it is the word from god, you doubt him?

I may be bringing myself into one heck of an argument, but I felt the need to participate.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

I can respect that. I imagine there are additional reasons people believe and follow as well. But Pascal's Wager's logic (which I was addressing) is about the punishment/reward dynamic.

I understand the falicies of pascal's wager. It's important to remember though Islam is not a complete manifestation of this. (I would go into detail but it is off topic)

Aamirsaab you dont ever think (omg if i do this sin Allah will punish me?) or (omg if i miss dis prayer i might end up in hell for 80 years) etc etc.

With regards to sinning, it is usually only a minor one (swear word or something your average 19 year old muslim does :p) that I commit. In which case, I do not think about Allah's punishment, what I do think about is how it will affect others around me - will screaming insults at random people offend them? If yes, don't do it. That is the 'logic' I work on.

of course lets not be dum we also think (Alhamdulillah for this beautiful wife which God bestowed) and (Alhamdulillah for these great gifts given only by God out of mercy) we love and fear him!

Indeed. There is however a common misconception about fearing Allah; the fear in this context is similar to how one would fear a lion. e.g. one would not do anything to provoke that lion from say eating you. However, the utmost and honest respect is given to the lion.

[Pygoscelis]

Anyway, My point is that everything serves a purpose in this world. Or multiple purposes.

Sure, and purpose is subjective so changes according to perspective. My dog would declare my purpose to be to walk and feed and play with him. My clientswould deem my purpose to be to serve their needs. An alligator would see my purpose as a quick meal should I fall into its swamp. Not sure if this is on topic at all, but I do agree.

As a side note, I ask you people who are on the other side of the argument that why is so hard for you to believe?

Extraordinary claims and extraordinary demands on behaviour (adherence to seemingly arbitrary and sometimes damaging dogma) require extraordinary proof.

[snakelegs]

i just skimmed through this. but to answer your thread title question:
nothing whatsoever! i say, go for it - be the best muslim you can be!

[Skavau]

What will we Muslims lose if there is no GOD ???

You don't know. Could be another basis for punishment after life where no God is involved. You could lose lots of things.

Because if there is no GOD then when we all die it will be the end ,no one will be punished and no one will be awarded as well ,so this will be the end of it and we will not lose any thing .

To rephrase, do you mean: If there is no afterlife of any description we'll lose nothing? I don't see how no God automatically rules out the possibility of an afterlife.

We Muslims didn’t have any trouble by worshiping one GOD alone with no partners

Good for you. However not everyone feels this way.

We can eat every kind of food except a few things (like pork and non slaughtered animals and every thing that is harmful)
We can drink any kind of syrup except a few types of drinks (like wine and impure drinks and blood and every thing that is harmful )

So we Muslims are worshiping GOD and also are enjoying our life

Yes. That's fine if it makes you happy.

Both males and females can get married and enjoy our marriages.(we don’t have to do prohibited adultery).

Excuse me, but just where do you get the idea that Non-Muslims have to engage in adultery? Proof please.

We can make journeys and enjoy traveling

So can ANYONE.

We can work and get money and spend it to gain physical allowed enjoyments (like eating the allowed ,drinking , marrying , traveling , reading books , studying and becoming scientists and so on)
We are being kind to others and we help people and treat out fathers and mothers well and obey our parents for Allah’s sake .

So can ANYONE.

But if there is a GOD then

any one who haven’t believed in that or didn’t worship him will surely lose a lot especially after he dies because all sorts of punishments will be waiting for him and he will enter eternal Hell with no chance to get out of it and you know what he deserved it.

I do not recognise the "Well you've got nothing to lose" argument because it does not underpin people's basis for NOT believing. It ignores all other reasons and just spouts utter drivel.

First of all, the hole in the argument is that what if Thor is true? What if the FSM is true? What if Zeus is true? What if Hinduism, Sikhism, Christianity, Jainism, Baha'i is true? That argument doesn't work considering all the other faith systems out there that are possible. Why single out Islam? Oh yeah, because YOU believe it is the only way. And we reach your real motive, not the attempt to rationalise it.

Secondly, 'We have nothing to lose'? You fail to recognise for some that Islam is a huge life change. It would be for me. I love my music and would not be willing to give it up for a start.

And I am going to quote John Stuart Mill, to address the condemnation to hell point:

Whatever power such a being shall have over me, there is one thing
which he shall not do: he shall not compel me to worship him. I will
call no being good, who is not what I mean when I apply that epithet
to my fellow-creatures; and if such a being can sentence me to hell
for not calling him so, then to hell I will go. - John Stuart Mill

Continuing onwards, though:

But there is a scary probability that atheists will lose every thing in there future after death and this loss will be for eternity

But YOU uphold that. Not me or other Atheists.

A terrible post with a weak argument, and that is my brutally honest opinion.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i just skimmed through this. but to answer your thread title question:
nothing whatsoever! i say, go for it - be the best muslim you can be!

whoah, i really respect you!

[Skavau]

as i said he is only one GOD , so i ask you to try to obey him as possible as you can or else

I just noticed this. Your true motivation comes out. Making threats is childish and means nothing to us.

okay you say that you are willing to be thrown for ever in hell fire ,that's your choice and this is not my choice.

No no. No-one wants to be in a hell fire. What Pyco was saying that if God wants someone to worship him or be tortured, then he is evil and no more different than a dictator in a totalitarian state who hunts down those who go against the state ideology.

IdnAbdul:
[/quote]this shows pride and arrogance, if the creator has instructed us to bow then only the stupid will resist knowing that the fire is their recompense. Satan was surely one of the stupid.[quote]
That doesn't justify the action of sending someone to eternal torture just for resisting the wrath of a creator. Why would a God care if we believe in that God or not? Surely moral virtues are far more important than constantly affirming your belief in a deity that does not require it?

If Allah existed, and I resisted - it would be a STUPID action based on logic, but it wouldn't make what that God does to me because of it morally correct.

worshipping not only enlightens us but fills us with peace, a peace you cant attain with all the riches in the world. If the kings knew they would take out their swords to rob this peace from us.

Worshipping in any religion gives anyone 'peace of mind'. There are lots of techniques. It is not just limited to Islam.

[Trumble]

Every other acclaimed religion has been proven wrong to the point where questioning is not allowed and blind faith is encouraged apart from Islam.

'Proven' wrong to who, muslims? And by who? It certainly hasn't been proven to the three billion or so who follow other faiths. And that's not including the atheists and agnostics, all of whom would think Islam falls squarely in that category as well.

Yet again, nothing has been 'proven'. It almost certainly never will be. If it had been everyone would be either muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or whatever depending on what that 'proof' was. But Islam has no more to offer in that respect than any other faith unless, of course, you are already a muslim.

[Hemoo]

well i have seen most of your responses and i Don't has the time to make replies on all what has been writen ..

so its enogh what my beloved brothers in islam has said

but i want to add some opinions :

it seems to me that the main cause of some people becoming atheists is their background religion.

i mean that most of the athiests now in the world used to be christians and jews or lived in a christians or jewish areas

and what happened is that when they where educated that christianity is the true relegion and then they seen many contradictions between both altered bible ,torah and between logic and science they thought that all the religions are the same and so they chose to take this anti relegion attitude

(and you all may have heared of what did the christian churches used to do to scientist before and it used to burn them to death just because they said something that does not go along with the biblical text)

so i say again and for the last time islamic texts has not been altered or changed from the time this texts where revealed to the Prophet muhammad (peace be upon him) and till now .

so for all of you athiests who had a nightmaric christianity background i tell you that Islam is not like christianity

so give your selves a second chance and try to sincerly learn about Islam to see if it is really bad like you may think or no


and i wish to all of you to be granted the guidance of ALLAH ...say Amen you will not lose a thing if you say it (Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeen)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

'Proven' wrong to who, muslims? And by who? It certainly hasn't been proven to the three billion or so who follow other faiths. And that's not including the atheists and agnostics, all of whom would think Islam falls squarely in that category as well.

Yet again, nothing has been 'proven'. It almost certainly never will be. If it had been everyone would be either muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or whatever depending on what that 'proof' was. But Islam has no more to offer in that respect than any other faith unless, of course, you are already a muslim.

But there is much error with the bible, as i mentioned before (which i dont wish to mention again), i dont know much about judaism however i have heard that they dont allow their religion to be spread which i find very strange.

Honestly i have grown up in london, i went to primary/secondary/college and am now working in a university yet i havent met one commited person of another faith.

I find this strange.. i thought i found a christian once but after questioning a bit it turned out he doesnt really believe. So it seems to me that only muslims widely truelly believe in God.

What is your view?

[wilberhum]

So it seems to me that only muslims widely truelly believe in God.

You base this astounding conclusion based on one Christian?
How can anyone ever come to such narrow mindless thought.
There are strong and weak believers in every religion.
Muslims have nothing special in this area.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

You base this astounding conclusion based on one Christian?
How can anyone ever come to such narrow mindless thought.
There are strong and weak believers in every religion.
Muslims have nothing special in this area.

lol i based it because throughout my life i have come across countless and i say COUNTLESS dedicated and commited muslims, and i have had many MANY non-muslim friends, so why not even once, not even once have i come across a dedicated non-muslim.

however your right it was narrow-minded.

Perhaps i have yet to see him, i cant wait to have discussions with him :)

[wilberhum]

lol i based it because throughout my life i have come across countless and i say COUNTLESS dedicated and commited muslims, and i have had many MANY non-muslim friends, so why not even once, not even once have i come across a dedicated non-muslim.

however your right it was narrow-minded.

Perhaps i have yet to see him, i cant wait to have discussions with him :)

Go to church some Sunday. :D :D

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Go to church some Sunday. :D :D

wont i find them there if i go on a saturday :?

[wilberhum]

wont i find them there if i go on a saturday :?

I think you will find them anytime you go. :thumbs_up But don't presume that church is the only place that Christians pray. :?

[ManchesterFolk]

5. You most certainly DO lose by worshiping. You waste time that could be spent more constructively. You accept a bunch of dogma that usually includes negative things. You may even cut yourself off from friendship with entire groups of other people due to the dogma you follow due to their worldview or even gender.

REPS!

[Hemoo]

as a Closing to what i have said i wanted to clarify two things :

first :when i made this article i made it as a probability on the current state ,i mean that muslims who are a true believers will not lose a thing any way , and i didn't do it for atheists to become muslims for just this probability case and i think that "snake legs" has understood me on that.

second : that in Islam any worshiping or prayer must have two conditions to be right

1- is to be a good deed with the following of the prophet muhammad (or else it will be bid`a or inventioned )

2- is to be clearly and sincerly FOR Allah's sake not for any thing else (you can see that in the first hadith mentioned in Authintic Sahih Bukhary it says -Narated By 'Umar bin Al-Khattab : I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he emigrated for." )

hope you all get what i meantioned ...

[England]

If there's no God then your lives are wasted with all those restrictions...

But if there is a GOD then

any one who haven’t believed in that or didn’t worship him will surely lose a lot especially after he dies because all sorts of punishments will be waiting for him and he will enter eternal Hell with no chance to get out of it and you know what he deserved it.

If there is a God, which there is I don't believe anyone will go to eternal hell and face punishments just because they didn't worship him. That would portray God as evil. He isn't evil. I believe God judges a person by the person he is. I personally feel God is happy about the person I am, the way I live my life. As I've said before, God has helped me in my life..

God will send us to eternal hell... :blind: That's surely an insult to God..

[queenmuslimah]

all i can say is allahu akbar........allahu abkar.........allah is the greatest........allah is the best mashallah...........may allah guide us all to the right path ameen..............

[England]

all i can say is allahu akbar........allahu abkar.........allah is the greatest........allah is the best mashallah...........may allah guide us all to the right path ameen..............

Stay out of trouble, be a decent human being, live life peacefully then we are no doubt on the right path...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Stay out of trouble, be a decent human being, live life peacefully then we are no doubt on the right path...

yes friend but you've forgotten to say that we should also enjoin the good and forbid the evil :)

then we are on the right path :)

[Pygoscelis]

[B]it seems to me that the main cause of some people becoming atheists is their background religion.

As there are few if any places in this world where the people are predominantly atheistic, we're pretty much all going to be coming from a society with a religion, be it Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddist, whatever.

I myself was never a Christian. My mother was a presbeterian. My father was a coseted agnostic (he never talked about religion but went along with my mother). I have been atheist since as long as I can remember. I did go to church in the early days, but it was far more a cultural experience than a religious one. I never prayed myself (though I sat while others did) and never expected anybody was listening to prayers.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

Stay out of trouble, be a decent human being, live life peacefully then we are no doubt on the right path...

That's the same path I follow :).

[England]

:sl:

That's the same path I follow :).

It's the same path I follow too :)

[lavikor201]

not even once have i come across a dedicated non-muslim.

Go to:
Mea Shearim, Israel,
Boro Park, NY
Williamsburg, NY
Bnei Brak. Israel

Just to name a few. You will be suprised how your Muslims match up.

[جوري]

sounds like a fantastic tour du monde to validate a subjective view of yours... will we first encounter these dedicated non-Muslims at Israeli check points? I will go with you on this one and say Yes!

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Honestly i have grown up in london, i went to primary/secondary/college and am now working in a university yet i havent met one commited person of another faith.

I'm a committed atheist. Pleased to meet you!

I find this strange.. i thought i found a christian once but after questioning a bit it turned out he doesnt really believe. So it seems to me that only muslims widely truelly believe in God.

I can see why you've had some misunderstandings over this post, due to the way you've phrased it, but at the same time I think I can see what you mean.

The average Muslim that I have met has thought of god in a much more vivid and real sense than the average Christian. Many people who are labelled 'Christian' aren't remotely interested in religion of any kind. In Britain, many of these nominal Christians get slightly embarrassed when asked if they believe in god.

Peace

[Pygoscelis]

Visit the southern US, the bible belt. They have people just as fundie. Frankly, they scare me.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Visit the southern US, the bible belt. They have people just as fundie. Frankly, they scare me.

Good point, I'd forgotten about them. People have been known to believe ludicrous things down there. Check these guys out.

Peace

[lavikor201]

sounds like a fantastic tour du monde to validate a subjective view of yours... will we first encounter these dedicated non-Muslims at Israeli check points? I will go with you on this one and say Yes!

Most likely not, however, you will find the studying the Torah and Talmud about 21 out of the 24 hours of the day. You wouldn't want to get into religious discussions because many of them have already memorized the majority of your holiest scriptures (christians, muslims, mormans) and know how to refute missionaries quickly and accuratly. And they may become very angry if your not modestly dressed.

After that, then yeah, come to Israel, and I would love to take you on a tour!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Greetings,


I'm a committed atheist. Pleased to meet you!

i said of another faith, atheists have no faith, you live for the sake of living.

[lavikor201]

i said of another faith, atheists have no faith, you live for the sake of living.

Atheism is pretty much a faith, I would say. There faith is in the scientific theories like "evolution" and there prophets are Darwin.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Atheism is pretty much a faith, I would say. There faith is in the scientific theories like "evolution" and there prophets are Darwin.

Darwin was a racist, he was also a man who worked without any evidence. To take this man as a prophet is insanity!

Science has been revealed to our prophets aswell in the religious scriptures in a far more accurate way (it didnt require changing due to recent discoveries).

I will never understand aethiests, honestly if you leave an isolated man to grow up for himself only giving him the necessaties (food/shelter) do you think he will grow up to be a disbeliever? No, that is the most unlikely thing, he will recognise that there must be a source that has been providing for him and guiding him through his life and submit.

[wilberhum]

I will never understand aethiests

May be that is because you think

Science has been revealed to our prophets

Religion never made a scientific discovery.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Religion never made a scientific discovery.

http://www.islamicity.com/science/


please dont reply if you disagree. I dislike blatent and complete arrogance.

[wilberhum]

http://www.islamicity.com/science/


please dont reply if you disagree. I dislike blatent and complete arrogance.

With those remarks I just have to. :D

Bend and twist any way you want. After scientists discovered facts, the ones that theists like, said "See, it is in my Holy Book". :rollseyes The others they just deny. :?

Any way, I have no dog in this hunt. I’m going to back into my corner and just look. :skeleton:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

After scientists discovered facts, the ones that theists like, said "See, it is in my Holy Book". :

i just have one statement,

anything science may discover which controdicts with the quran and sunnah i will blatently and confidently reject, and i am equally confident that you will later find the quran and saheeh sunnah to be more true then the scientific theories.

I can give you examples over examples such as the shape of the earth and the reflection of the moon etc but you yourself claim kufr (disbelief) so thats what you will do in what is so blatently obvious.


may Allah guide you. I mean it, you have some intelligence, subhanAllah i wish you would just consider what many orientalists themself have found, islam borrows NOTHING from nowhere, its all from God, and anything which controdicts us (islam) will eventually fade for falsehood is bound to fade!

[------]

i just have one statement,

anything science may discover which controdicts with the quran and sunnah i will blatently and confidently reject, and i am equally confident that you will later find the quran and saheeh sunnah to be more true then the scientific theories.

I can give you examples over examples such as the shape of the earth and the reflection of the moon etc but you yourself claim kufr (disbelief) so thats what you will do in what is so blatently obvious.


may Allah guide you. I mean it, you have some intelligence, subhanAllah i wish you would just consider what many orientalists themself have found, islam borrows NOTHING from nowhere, its all from God, and anything which controdicts us (islam) will eventually fade for falsehood is bound to fade!

:salamext:

Beat me to it....lol....agreed :thumbs_up

[wilberhum]

i just have one statement,

anything science may discover which controdicts with the quran and sunnah i will blatently and confidently reject, and i am equally confident that you will later find the quran and saheeh sunnah to be more true then the scientific theories.

I can give you examples over examples such as the shape of the earth and the reflection of the moon etc but you yourself claim kufr (disbelief) so thats what you will do in what is so blatently obvious.


may Allah guide you. I mean it, you have some intelligence, subhanAllah i wish you would just consider what many orientalists themself have found, islam borrows NOTHING from nowhere, its all from God, and anything which controdicts us (islam) will eventually fade for falsehood is bound to fade!

Why don't you start a thread titled "Things science discovered Because they were in a holy book" and give us your long list.

Now just let me go back into my corner and just look.
:enough!:

[جوري]

Most likely not, however, you will find the studying the Torah and Talmud about 21 out of the 24 hours of the day.!

This affects me how?

You wouldn't want to get into religious discussions because many of them have already memorized the majority of your holiest scriptures (christians, muslims, mormans) and know how to refute missionaries quickly and accuratly.

I am sure that would prove interesting! I tend to find that jacks of all trades are masters of none!

And they may become very angry if your not modestly dressed.

You make this assumption why? Yes I forget they ask people to strip at checkpoint!

After that, then yeah, come to Israel, and I would love to take you on a tour!

Again assuming I haven't already been there-- but thanks for the offer!

[Pygoscelis]

Atheism is pretty much a faith, I would say. There faith is in the scientific theories like "evolution" and there prophets are Darwin.

This could not be more wrong, and I think you know better.

Atheism is NOTHING more than a lack of belief in Gods. Some atheist may be evolutionists. Others are not. Darwin is by no means a prophet (unless he's one of yours).

[Chuck]

What will we Muslims lose if there is no GOD ???

Basically, nothing. But I can speak only for myself.

[Woodrow]

:sl:

My own feeling is this is a moot question and of no concern. To a Muslim I believe the question is meaningless. That is like asking "What will We Muslims lose if the year had no days?" You can not have a year if you do not have any days. Like wise there would be no Muslims if there was no God(swt).