Deploy troops in Iran...!

[England]

UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Fifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says.

The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.

The Royal Navy said it was doing everything it could to secure the release of its personnel, who are based on HMS Cornwall.

It added that the men had been carrying out a routine patrol in Iraqi waters.

The Ministry of Defence said: "The group boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.

"We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level.

"The British government is demanding the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment."

It is understood the men being held are safe and well.

Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett has summoned the Iranian ambassador in London to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, in an attempt to get the men released as quickly as possible.

In a statement, leader of the Liberal Democrats, Sir Menzies Campbell, also called for their immediate release.

"Whatever the rights and wrongs of military action, British forces in Iraq are now there with the authority of a UN security council resolution... and the Iranian government should be left in no doubt of the serious implications of their action," he said.

The incident comes as British Army Colonel Justin Masherevski, who is based in Iraq, says most of the violence against UK forces in Basra is being engineered by Iranian elements.

Col Masherevski said Iran was providing "sophisticated weaponry" to insurgents and "Iranian agents" were paying local men to attack British troops.

In 2004, Iran detained eight British servicemen for three days after they allegedly strayed over the maritime border.

The UK claimed the men were "forcibly escorted" into Iranian territorial waters.

While they were being held, the men were paraded blindfold and made to apologise on Iranian TV before their release was agreed.

The BBC's diplomatic correspondent James Robbins said the difference this time, and a cause of concern, is that the present Iranian government under President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was much more hardline.

"The political climate is worse with Britain among those confronting Iran over its controversial nuclear programme," he added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6484279.stm

[ManchesterFolk]

Iran are a bunch of idiots, the UK has every right to bomb Iran.

[ummAbdillah]

Iran are a bunch of idiots, the UK has every right to bomb Iran.

what good will war do?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Iran are a bunch of idiots, the UK has every right to bomb Iran.

hold your fish!

we dont know why the iranians did this, perhaps they had a reason? come on im pretty sure they didnt mean it to be a provocation for war!

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Muslim Knight]

Iran are a bunch of idiots, the UK has every right to bomb Iran.

Well, go bomb them. I'm sure we can appreciate every little bit of peace UK can offer the world. Like what the US is doing right now in Iraq. I'd enjoy so much peace in Iraq that I'm packing my stuff right now to migrate there and live in the middle of the peaceful warzone!!

[SATalha]

Iran are a bunch of idiots, the UK has every right to bomb Iran.

Wat a nice generalisation, giv some thought to your post b4 u post it. I dont appreciate stupid remarks like that. Your user name suggests ur from the north? Why are u making the stereotype of northern people being dumb, true.

[Keltoi]

Iran is either holding the hostages to secure some kind of leverage against the international community or just made a bumbling error. Either way, the Iranian government needs to crawl back into reality and realize the limitations of their bite compared to their bark.

[snakelegs]

bet bush is happy - i hope this does not provide an extra excuse for him to attack iran.

[akulion]

seeing how they have been acting so hostile towards iran, i think Iran had a right to arrest those men

after all usa and uk and famous for their spies (ESCHLON)

[SATalha]

humm intresting how these incidents r taking place now. Anyway iran must have good reason 4 this.

[DaNgErOuS MiNdS]

Iran claims they were spies, just hope it doesn't turn out to be another war.

[SATalha]

I can smell it. But prey 2 allah that it doesnt lead 2 war.

[akulion]

well the war mongers are known by all
so i wouldnt be surprised if bush, blair and their minions start 1

[Sami Zaatari]

they confessed to being in iranian waters, hence they were rightfully arrested. or do you westerners doubt the confessions? hmmmmmmm just last week you were bringing up khalid sheikh muhammads confession as proof that he did sep 11, well we use ur criteria now, these sailors also confessed to being in iranian waters.

and england go on and bomb iran, you think your so strong HA! you cant even beat iran through a proxy war against light armed shia millitias in lebanon or iraq lol imagine what they will do to you in a direct confrontation.

[Sami Zaatari]

you bomb iran and iran will wipe the floor with your british bases in the gulf so go on, an arrogant enemy always falls, you think you can easily bomb iran and have no consequences lol it seems iraq didnt teach you a lesson, then again your country never seems to learn. even with all the tough talk, usa and uk will NEVER bomb iran, why? folks to fight a huge war which is what it will be against iran you actually have to be ready and in a position to do so, NEITHER usa or uk are in a position to bomb iran or make war with iran, both countries are held up in 2 different countries, and the nationals of those 2 countries will not accept another war.(although a few extremists like manchester folk will support)

another war will basically bankrupt america, and another war for uk would basically leave their army in tatters.

now not only doesnt the usa and uk have the means to make a war with iran, the consequences of making a war are too much that they wont do it. if iran is attacked, as iran said, they will bomb us interests world wide and that isnt a bluff, and the us doesnt want that. secondly if iran is bombed iran will attack every single us and uk base in the region which will completly break the western millitary presence in that region, and also its very easy to break american british moral, if they lose 100 soldiers in one day their moral will be broken and thats a fact, and both countries will literally lose up to a thousand soldiers in one week by simple iranian bombings of their bases.

thirdly ppl seem to forget iraq, iran has more power and influence in iraq than the US does! do you know half the politicians in the iraqi goverment are friends with the iranian goverment and were working with the iranians prior the invasion? a war with iran will make the iraqi iranian backed millitias also go on a rampage against american and uk personal in that country, basically attacking iran will not make the war limited within the iranian border, it will involve the ENTIRE REGION and the US and UK have no way in controling that, lol they cant even control anbar province in iraq. what will they do when they are bombed in bahrain, uae, qatar, and iraq all at once? not to mention fighting in iran as well!

fourthly if iran is attacked you can bet hezbollah will not stay quet and they will respond by attacking israel, and iran will also attack israel too, and then thats another front in this war and israel wont be able to fight both hezbollah and iran togethor they couldnt even fight hezbollah alone!

fifthly iran will be looking for israel to attack iran, why? well when israel reacts to iran attacking it it will esstentially mean that USA UK and ISRAEL all togethor are bombing a muslim country, and iran will know that this will play in their hands in terms of how the arab muslims will view it and this will gain iran the support of the entire mid-east and the US sure as heck doesnt want that.

fifthly with a war with iran the econamy and oil and patrol prices will literally sky rocket which will cripple the western econamy.

so therefore to all westerners who say yeahhhhhhhh bomb iran! i think you should start using your brains abit because iran isnt iraq, but go ahead and make war with iran, you will lose not iran, even your own thinkers have said the consequences of going to iran would be a complete disaster. but its up to you. :)

[NoName55]

Anyone know an entity called N.A.T.O

BTW I am alway praying that world powers would one day see sense and stop attaking Muslims and go to the source of terror that is Hizb-al-shaitan both in lebanon and Iran

[Woodrow]

:sl: Brother,

If I recall correctly you are Iranian. I don't want to hijack the thread, but could you recommend a good Iranian Newspaper that has editions in either Arabic or English?

sadly the English edition of Sobh-e Eghtesad that I find seems to be very much Americanised.

[NoName55]

:w:I'm sure you are adressing someone else since I'm pakistani
but anyhow do know this one Iran daily? http://www.iran-daily.com/1385/2806/html/

:w:

list of all iranian online papers
http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/iran.htm

[wilberhum]

you bomb iran and iran will wipe the floor with your british bases in the gulf so go on, an arrogant enemy always falls, you think you can easily bomb iran and have no consequences lol it seems iraq didnt teach you a lesson, then again your country never seems to learn. even with all the tough talk, usa and uk will NEVER bomb iran, why? folks to fight a huge war which is what it will be against iran you actually have to be ready and in a position to do so, NEITHER usa or uk are in a position to bomb iran or make war with iran, both countries are held up in 2 different countries, and the nationals of those 2 countries will not accept another war.(although a few extremists like manchester folk will support)

another war will basically bankrupt america, and another war for uk would basically leave their army in tatters.

now not only doesnt the usa and uk have the means to make a war with iran, the consequences of making a war are too much that they wont do it. if iran is attacked, as iran said, they will bomb us interests world wide and that isnt a bluff, and the us doesnt want that. secondly if iran is bombed iran will attack every single us and uk base in the region which will completly break the western millitary presence in that region, and also its very easy to break american british moral, if they lose 100 soldiers in one day their moral will be broken and thats a fact, and both countries will literally lose up to a thousand soldiers in one week by simple iranian bombings of their bases.

thirdly ppl seem to forget iraq, iran has more power and influence in iraq than the US does! do you know half the politicians in the iraqi goverment are friends with the iranian goverment and were working with the iranians prior the invasion? a war with iran will make the iraqi iranian backed millitias also go on a rampage against american and uk personal in that country, basically attacking iran will not make the war limited within the iranian border, it will involve the ENTIRE REGION and the US and UK have no way in controling that, lol they cant even control anbar province in iraq. what will they do when they are bombed in bahrain, uae, qatar, and iraq all at once? not to mention fighting in iran as well!

fourthly if iran is attacked you can bet hezbollah will not stay quet and they will respond by attacking israel, and iran will also attack israel too, and then thats another front in this war and israel wont be able to fight both hezbollah and iran togethor they couldnt even fight hezbollah alone!

fifthly iran will be looking for israel to attack iran, why? well when israel reacts to iran attacking it it will esstentially mean that USA UK and ISRAEL all togethor are bombing a muslim country, and iran will know that this will play in their hands in terms of how the arab muslims will view it and this will gain iran the support of the entire mid-east and the US sure as heck doesnt want that.

fifthly with a war with iran the econamy and oil and patrol prices will literally sky rocket which will cripple the western econamy.

so therefore to all westerners who say yeahhhhhhhh bomb iran! i think you should start using your brains abit because iran isnt iraq, but go ahead and make war with iran, you will lose not iran, even your own thinkers have said the consequences of going to iran would be a complete disaster. but its up to you. :)

Why am I not surprised that Sami wants a war. That way he can issue more hate messages towards the West.
Well this old Western War Munger would like to see a peaceful resolution.

[Woodrow]

:w:I'm sure you are adressing someone else since I'm pakistani
but anyhow do know this one Iran daily? http://www.iran-daily.com/1385/2806/html/

:w:

list of iranian papers
http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/iran.htm

:w:

Sorry, I was late in hitting the post button I was trying to see if Brother Sami new of any that he would consider representative of the Iranian people..

I'm familiar with onlinenewspapers.com and for most countries I'm happy with the papers. But, sadly for the Iranian papers it seems that the only news that gets through is the society news with little mention of the Iranian view of world news.

[Trumble]

they confessed to being in iranian waters, hence they were rightfully arrested. or do you westerners doubt the confessions?

There are no "confessions", just a report that an Iranian general said they made them. And yes, I "doubt" them; the British authorities would know precisely where they were.

and england go on and bomb iran, you think your so strong HA!

Nobody is going to bomb anybody. This whole incident is just an attempt to tweak the lion's tail, the lion in this case being the United States, and everyone concerned is perfectly well aware of the fact. The Iranians just don't have the nerve to take on the US directly as they tend to be rather less 'restrained', shall we say. The Brits they know they can talk to.

[akulion]

well quite frankly this is in direct retaliation of when the allied forces raided an Irani embassy in Iraq and arrested the diplomats. and furthermore they arent letting them go, which is against international laws that all diplomats have immunity.

So these soldiers being arrested is just a 'tit for tat' treatment

[SATalha]

Why am I not surprised that Sami wants a war. That way he can issue more hate messages towards the West.
Well this old Western War Munger would like to see a peaceful resolution.

I think my brother is just pasSionate in describing the reaction of iran, if a war is started. So i dont think he realy wants war. Come on guys this isnt enough 4 war.

[Keltoi]

The U.S. isn't going to react violently against Iran over British hostages unless the hostages are killed or otherwise not returned home, in which case the British will take the lead no doubt.

I also see people calling Bush and Blair "warmongers", which is fine if that is your opinion, but the Iranian president hasn't exactly been a force for peaceful resolution either. I see this coming to a confrontation, I just hope it stays on the diplomatic front.

[akulion]

lets face it they cant

with the support for the war vanishing
the power being taken out from under bushes feet
and their grand plan to 'rebuild iraq' and thus fueling the american economy failing
they arent going to take the risk really

plus the thing about iran is its not a rag tag nation like iraq (with no arms or ammunition)

plus by attacking Iran they risk China getting involved since their border is right next door
and im sure china isnt going to sit by letting planes fly over their airspace or their borders being bombed

[Trumble]

plus by attacking Iran they risk China getting involved since their border is right next door
and im sure china isnt going to sit by letting planes fly over their airspace or their borders being bombed

Erm.. I don't think that would be an issue. I suspect even the American military's knowledge of geography is rather better than yours! :D

[Trumble]

Update on this story.

Seems where this might be where the claim the troops were in Iranian territorial waters came from;

However, Professor Sadaq Ziba-Kalam, of Tehran University, told BBC News 24 he did not think they would be charged with spying. "That part of the water between Iran and Iraq where the incident happened has been disputed for decades," he said. "So it is very difficult to draw the line and say this is the Iranian side of the border and this is the Iraqi side of the border."

i.e. the Iranian perception of where their territorial waters end is rather different than everybody else's.

BBC

[*Hana*]

Erm.. I don't think that would be an issue. I suspect even the American military's knowledge of geography is rather better than yours! :D

They might know where the borders are but they can't accurately hit the broadside of a barn. (Just ask all the Canadian and British soldiers "accidently" killed by "friendly" fire at the hands of the American geography specialists).

I doubt China is going to accept "oopsy" as a valid excuse should yet another American bomb miss its intended target and land anywhere near their border.

[Hashim_507]

Why do you think about war for this situation? Violance does not solve the problem for this kind of hostage crisis. This kind of problem can be solve in a diplomatic ways.

[Trumble]

They might know where the borders are but they can't accurately hit the broadside of a barn. (Just ask all the Canadian and British soldiers "accidently" killed by "friendly" fire at the hands of the American geography specialists).

I doubt China is going to accept "oopsy" as a valid excuse should yet another American bomb miss its intended target and land anywhere near their border.

Has anybody taken the trouble to look at an atlas? :?

Iran is nowhere near China. Indeed, both the whole of Afghanistan and the Himalayas are between the two.

Why do you think about war for this situation? Violance does not solve the problem for this kind of hostage crisis. This kind of problem can be solve in a diplomatic ways.

I don't think war is an option; it wouldn't achieve anything. The only reason the troops allowed themselves to be "arrested" in the first place was that their orders were to go 'softly, softly' in the event of such an incident in order to prevent something that might spiral out of control. It's just a shame the Iranians can't behave as responsibly.

The worry I have is that the rules of engagement will now be changed to prevent a repeat of such a stunt. When the next suspected smuggler is inspected in the Gulf there will be full air support throughout, and any Iranian craft coming within five miles is likely to get warned off, then if necessary blown out of the water. Then things could get unpleasant.

[Hashim_507]

I believe the real story behind this crisis is not been reported by the media. Iran has every right to protect its harbor from danger. Most media demonize Iran as a monster. This is a political drama; for bush and its allies. Bush will make move to demonize Iran and justifie a war.

[Trumble]

Iran has every right to protect its harbor from danger.

It does, but that is totally irrelevant to this situation. Exactly how was it's 'harbor' supposed to be in 'danger' from fourteen guys and a gal in a couple of small boats in the middle of the Gulf? They were inspecting a ship suspected of smuggling.

Bush will make move to demonize Iran and justifie a war.

If the Iranians keep acting as irresponsibly as they are here, Bush won't need to bother. Iran is doing a nice job of demonizing itself.

[England]

The Iranians keep changing their stories.. They're blatantly making things up. It is clearly provocation for war. I'm not talking about land invasion like Iraq because I don't think it will be an Iraqi-style war. The attacks will come from the skies. They're building nuclear reactors which they cannot be trusted with especially with their threats towards Israel. They are handing their weapons and arms to Iraqi militias, they're paying them to attack British and US troops.

Now this...

They're taunting...



"Afisherman on the Shatt al-Arab who witnessed the incident said the British had definitely been in Iraqi waters."

Reported http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/t...name_page.html

[Trumble]

They're building nuclear reactors which they cannot be trusted with especially with their threats towards Israel. They are handing their weapons and arms to Iraqi militias, they're paying them to attack British and US troops.

They're taunting...

Of course they are, but simply because it's all they can do. Their nuclear ambitions are completely stalled now the Russians won't play ball... how long that will stay the case remains to be seen, but the continual refusal to comply with the Security Council resolution is hardly likely to endear them to Moscow. And they have been caught with their trousers down in Iraq providing weapons to and supporting Shi'a militia groups.

That's why it's not worth getting too steamed up about at present, it's really just a temper tantram they need to get out of their system.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Iran are a bunch of idiots, the UK has every right to bomb Iran.

Yes lets eh...:rollseyes

US. Have Iranians lets bomb US too? I'd love to see that. - Why should they release them, when we and us are playing games with iran. It's tit-for-tat. And I hope iran stand by what they are doing. It's named the Persian Gulf for a reason. - You go spying, you get caught!

[AvarAllahNoor]

lets face it they cant

with the support for the war vanishing
the power being taken out from under bushes feet
and their grand plan to 'rebuild iraq' and thus fueling the american economy failing
they arent going to take the risk really

plus the thing about iran is its not a rag tag nation like iraq (with no arms or ammunition)

plus by attacking Iran they risk China getting involved since their border is right next door
and im sure china isnt going to sit by letting planes fly over their airspace or their borders being bombed

I think Russia would join in too. China, Russia against the US. Yes I like that idea too. :D

[AvarAllahNoor]

Of course they are, but simply because it's all they can do. Their nuclear ambitions are completely stalled now the Russians won't play ball... how long that will stay the case remains to be seen, but the continual refusal to comply with the Security Council resolution is hardly likely to endear them to Moscow. And they have been caught with their trousers down in Iraq providing weapons to and supporting Shi'a militia groups.
.

Why is that a shock? No different from US funding the taliban against russia years ago. I'm glad Iran is tormenting the west, because I hate nothing more than big bullies. Let US back down first.

[Darkseid]

Well, go bomb them. I'm sure we can appreciate every little bit of peace UK can offer the world. Like what the US is doing right now in Iraq. I'd enjoy so much peace in Iraq that I'm packing my stuff right now to migrate there and live in the middle of the peaceful warzone!!

Going to Anbar, eh? :thumbs_up

[AvarAllahNoor]

Also....The fact that the british personnel could actually be seized proves they were inside Iran's water.

[noodles]

I find if very amusing that many nationalists living in America and England and a whole lot of other countries are willing to believe the reports of their own government, where as once the Iranian government makes reports, you claim them false.

Get it through your heads people, all governments lie.

Remember when U.S invaded Iraq on a claim that there were weapons of mass destruction? well a whole lot of truth that was. England supported them too if I remember correctly. Anyway that's besides the point.

It is your nationalistic attitudes that prevent you from hearing the truth.

One other thing about their nuclear program, I find it very hypocritical that U.S and England [among others] do not want Iran to build nuclear weapons when both those countries itself have these missiles for protection. And yes I realize that it has made threats against Israel but do they not have a right to defend their fellow muslims just like Americans and the English want to defend their fellow keen[Israelis] against palestinians?

You people[North american nationalists] justify your arguments by saying its for peace efforts, when the very thing you are doing is for your own benefits and not for others.

This situation of the soldiers being found in Iranian waters is very unstable, but they must have a reason for it. Plus, have you ever thought that there are also Muslims in England that are taken into custody for crimes they have not commited, yet you don't find the muslims' home countries dropping bombs on England do you?

Just because England has nuclear power, they've become arrogant.

This scenario is very much similar to a school playground, where America and England are the school bullies and trying to rule the playground by stripping every other nation of their ammunition so as to not make them prospective enemies.

[Hashim_507]

The Iranians keep changing their stories.. They're blatantly making things up. It is clearly provocation for war. I'm not talking about land invasion like Iraq because I don't think it will be an Iraqi-style war. The attacks will come from the skies. They're building nuclear reactors which they cannot be trusted with especially with their threats towards Israel. They are handing their weapons and arms to Iraqi militias, they're paying them to attack British and US troops.

Now this...

They're taunting...

First of all Iran is not threat to world peace; Bush admistration is a threat. Why? Lets compare U.S,Israel and Iran; since Islamic Republic took over Iran government Iran only had one war with Iraq. The United States was behind the Iran and Iraq war; those years Saddam was a puppet.

Ok lets jump to U.S and Israel; I'll start with U.S government. The U.S is the only nation that drop nuclear bomb. Look at the world now since ww2; many nations hope wars would stop after the second world war but u.s continue its wars. I can name many wars and conflicts; many of those wars so many lives was lost. U.S is becoming the leading nation using bombs towards civilians during wars.

Also Israel is a threat too; they are the only nation in the middle east arm with nuclear bomb. Why not Iran arm with bomb? Dont you think its unfair policy? I know you believe your government is not trusting Iran with nuke. Well Iran does not trust Israel since they hear news about palestinians are being bombarded with airstrikes.

The records of Iran being involve in a war and comflict is very little compare to U.S or Israel.

[noodles]

As a side note, I'm not a Pro-Arab, nor am I Pro-American. Although it does make me sound a bit like a hypocrite.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Mugabe has slaughtered hundreds of thousands and no one even talks about invading Zimbabwe.

[Keltoi]

I expect the hostages to be released sometime in the next week. Probably with a public apology.

[Trumble]

You go spying, you get caught!

Please read the reports. Nobody was 'spying'. How do you 'spy' on Iran from a small boat in the middle of the Gulf?! They were inspecting a ship suspected of smuggling.

It's tit-for-tat.

'Tit-for-tat' is fine as long as they don't moan about the inevitable 'tit' that is likely to follow their 'tat' if they keep this nonsense up.

Mugabe has slaughtered hundreds of thousands and no one even talks about invading Zimbabwe.

Actually it has been mentioned, but regarded as impracticable as it would require support from the African countries, particularly South Africa, that would not be forthcoming. Unbelieveably they still seem to buy Mugabe's spin about some sort of on-going colonial war, or though at last attitudes seem to be changing a little. Sometimes, though, you wonder if it will take the whole of the Zimbabwean population to cross the border into SA before they get of their backsides and do something.

[abdil han]

Iran are a bunch of idiots, the UK has every right to bomb Iran.

this has been said before iraq war,,ur politicians claimed saddam has chemical weapons...nonsense...!!

what were the british soldiers doing there?!!
as i know britain doesnt have a land there,,,am i wrong?

try to stay in ur own country,,,if iranians are idiots,you are more than them...

go ahead bomb iran....if you can! but dont think that iran is so weak as irak...

you are worrying for ur 15 soldiers,,but 660 people,avarage,(not soldiers,babies,women,innocents) are dying in irak everyday...try to worry about them a little too...dont be sooo selfish..

.................

[Keltoi]

If the U.K. or the U.S. wanted to "spy" on Iran, I think they could think of something more effective than a pair of binoculars in the gulf.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Please read the reports. Nobody was 'spying'. How do you 'spy' on Iran from a small boat in the middle of the Gulf?! They were inspecting a ship suspected of smuggling.

'Tit-for-tat' is fine as long as they don't moan about the inevitable 'tit' that is likely to follow their 'tat' if they keep this nonsense up.

They tremble at such threats....:rollseyes & Inspecting is another word for spying isn't it eh.

UK should never have got in this mess, joining forces with US was the biggest mistake this country has made for many years. How would we feel if Iranian boats were patrolimg the Channel. Can't image we would sit back and take it, why should the Iranians be any different :D

[AvarAllahNoor]

Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk

Iran are a bunch of idiots, the UK has every right to bomb Iran.

Of course they do, but don't sit back and enjoy all the fun, because they will retaliate. It's what happens when you attack anohter nation.

[noodles]

I expect the hostages to be released sometime in the next week. Probably with a public apology.

Are you serious?

Honestly what about those your government takes into custody without any evidence and release them WITHOUT an apology? You can be sure that there have been alot more that 25 taken into custody and I haven't seen an apology ever.

You're government has their honor and pride and Iran likely has his too. You're asking very much if you want an apology when you yourself aren't willing to do it.

[Keltoi]

How has Iran evolved into the Muslim "hero" nation all of a sudden? Those who dislike George Bush and Tony Blair for their politics should despise the Iranian president for the same reason.

[Keltoi]

Are you serious?

Honestly what about those your government takes into custody without any evidence and release them WITHOUT an apology? You can be sure that there have been alot more that 25 taken into custody and I haven't seen an apology ever.

You're government has their honor and pride and Iran likely has his too. You're asking very much if you want an apology when you yourself aren't willing to do it.

Just watch the news in coming week. I would expect the hostages to be released with either a public statement at the U.N. apologizing for the "misunderstanding", or a written statement to the same effect. You don't have to risk your pride if you characterize the situation as a misunderstanding.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Are you serious?

Honestly what about those your government takes into custody without any evidence and release them WITHOUT an apology? You can be sure that there have been alot more that 25 taken into custody and I haven't seen an apology ever.

You're government has their honor and pride and Iran likely has his too. You're asking very much if you want an apology when you yourself aren't willing to do it.

Don't worry. Iran did the same in 2004, and did you see the aplogy? They paraded the men blindfolded live on TV, Nothing could be done. That's the apology they'll get!

[Trumble]

Inspecting is another word for spying isn't it eh.

No. Perhaps you should invest in a good dictionary?

Spying is a covert activity. There is nothing covert about stopping and searching a merchant ship. Neither is there anything covert about leaving it and allowing it to go about it's business.

How would we feel if Iranian boats were patrolimg the Channel. Can't image we would sit back and take it, why should the Iranians be any different

If they stayed in international waters and (or indeed or) were operating in accordance with a UN mandate that is exactly what we would do!

[AvarAllahNoor]

How has Iran evolved into the Muslim "hero" nation all of a sudden? Those who dislike George Bush and Tony Blair for their politics should despise the Iranian president for the same reason.

Well I'm a Sikh not a muslim (No we're not the same....)

The only resentment I have is how U.S and UK bully people/nations that do not agree with their ways. Is this right? Not in my book. I'm British and proud. And would defend this country against invasion or attack of any sort. But what i don't agree with as stated above, us forcing our way on others. So I knwo you think my posts are in favour of Iran and war. But no, I'm for peace yet, I can't stand the bully nations dicating. And I won't apologise for this view either.

[noodles]

I didn't say it wouldn't happen did I now?

It most probably will. However, what I'm trying to get through to you is that you everyone makes mistakes, they have their honor too, Infact England has made more mistakes than any other country itself. Have you forgotten colonialism? Has the British nation apologized to trying to colonize other nations? You tell me who is being the arrogant one here expecting an apology?

[Hashim_507]

I expect the hostages to be released sometime in the next week. Probably with a public apology.

Why not the british government apoligize for the Iaq war? Ok what about british colonization and slavery from the past; did you forget about those apologies?

[AvarAllahNoor]

If they stayed in international waters and (or indeed or) were operating in accordance with a UN mandate that is exactly what we would do!

UN have no credibilty! - They serve no purpose, the defiance of the Iraq invasion by the US proved it.

[Keltoi]

Well I'm a Sikh not a muslim (No we're not the same....)

The only resentment I have is how U.S and UK bully people/nations that do not agree with their ways. Is this right? Not in my book. I'm British and proud. And would defend this country against invasion or attack of any sort. But what i don't agree with as stated above, us forcing our way on others. So I knwo you think my posts are in favour of Iran and war. But no, I'm for peace yet, I can't stand the bully nations dicating. And I won't apologise for this view either.

Fair enough, but if you are truly being objective you should also realize that those "bully nations" aren't fully to blame for the state of affairs with Iran at the moment. The Iranian president is just as if not more responsible for the current situation.

[Keltoi]

Why not the british government apoligize for the Iaq war? Ok what about british colonization and slavery from the past; did you forget about those apologies?

I'm not sure what colonialism and slavery have to do with the political standoff with Iran in 2007...

[Hashim_507]

I'm not sure what colonialism and slavery have to do with the political standoff with Iran in 2007...

Its 2007 Britain and its allies are colonizing Iraq and occupying it. Well U.S, Britain and its allies are planing to colonize Iran just like Iraq. However they want to justifie there war by using this situation.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Fair enough, but if you are truly being objective you should also realize that those "bully nations" aren't fully to blame for the state of affairs with Iran at the moment. The Iranian president is just as if not more responsible for the current situation.

Yes to an extent he is BUT, it's only because we're syaing you should not have nukes, why? Because they made a comment about annihalating Israel? Things are said, but that does not mean it will take place. It's hypocrisy Keltoi.

They are entilteld to protecting their country from attack by what ever means neccesary. I don't see the problem with them being a nuclear power. We are you are. It's a case of ''You Do As We Say'' Nope it isn't correct. Assist them to use the power in a good way, don't make them. It never works!

[Keltoi]

Its 2007 Britain and its allies are colonizing Iraq and occupying it. Well U.S, Britain and its allies are planing to colonize Iran just like Iraq. However they want to justifie there war by using this situation.

Planning to colonize Iran just like Iraq? C'mon, at least stick to a half way realistic script.

[Hashim_507]

Planning to colonize Iran just like Iraq? C'mon, at least stick to a half way realistic script.

Who's behind the sanctions against Iran? U.S, Israel and britain are all behind it. After sanctions there will be a war afterwards and then colonization. Look what happen to Iraq now; after gulf war Iraq was sanction for false reason. In 2003 a war was declare using lies.

[Trumble]

UN have no credibilty! - They serve no purpose, the defiance of the Iraq invasion by the US proved it.

No 'credibility' with who? While the UN may certainly have its faults it is essential to remember that it is the sum of of its members, particularly with regard to the Security Council. If a resolution is adopted by the Security Council it means it has not been vetoed, and has usually been agreed (as is the case here) by the US, Russia and China, among others. Whether you, or the Iranians, may think the UN is 'credible' or not is irrelevant. Iran is quite at liberty to ignore the UN and the expressed will of those countries, but must accept there may well be be unpleasant consequences in doing so. That does not necessarily involve military action, which is extremely unlikely in this instance.

Quite apart from which, if that is the approach you advocate for the Iranians, perhaps they should resign from the UN? No point in staying members if it has no 'credibility', surely?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Quite apart from which, if that is the approach you advocate for the Iranians, perhaps they should resign from the UN? No point in staying members if it has no 'credibility', surely?

Oooh get you...:D

They failed to stop US from an illegal war. US, should be held accountable then maybe the world will take it's role seriously. US are members they too should leave, no? Of course not, you can only see the wrongs of others but not your own....:rollseyes

[SATalha]

All iam gónna say is what was the first job of the u.s army in iraq? To libirate the people? 2 fight saddams men? 2 fight n locate terrorist? Nope it was 2 secure the oil pumps n reservs

[England]

Britons detained in Iraqi waters, says fisherman

basra, Iraq • An Iraqi fisherman who said he saw Iranian forces detain British sailors and marines on Friday in a waterway between Iraq and Iran said yesterday the ship British forces were searching was anchored in Iraqi waters.

Iran has condemned what it called the illegal entry of 15 British naval personnel into Iranian waters as a “suspicious act”, the official Irna news agency said yesterday.

Britain says they were detained in Iraqi waters on a routine search operation and has demanded their immediate return.

The fisherman, the same one who said he witnessed the sailors being detained several hours before it was confirmed by the British government, said the line between Iranian and Iraqi waters was not marked by buoys but was well known.

“We’ve been working in this job for many years and because of our experience we can distinguish which is the Iraqi and which is Iranian side,” he said, adding that Iraqi boats never venture across because of tight security by Iranian coastguards.

He said the ship the British forces were searching was among several that had been anchored for a week or more, waiting to unload or take on cargo at an Iraqi port. “The ship was in Iraqi waters,” said the fisherman, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of security concerns.

Brigadier Hakim Jassam of the Iraqi coastguard said the incident happened at the entrance of the Shatt al-Arab waterway, where the open waters of the Gulf narrow into a channel that marks the southern border between the two countries. “We don’t know whether it happened in Iraqi or Iranian waters, we don’t have exact information,” Jassam said.

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Dis...7032534322.xml

[AvarAllahNoor]

Lets see what happens next.

[Trumble]

US are members they too should leave, no?

They have actually seriously considered it, which as far as I'm aware is more than can be said for Iran.

Of course not, you can only see the wrongs of others but not your own....

You still don't you get it? 'Rights' and 'wrongs' have nothing to do with it. Nobody cares, Bush, Blair, Ahmednejad, whoever. They should care, but they don't. It's all about power and how it is used.

Unanimous UN resolutions carry power to some degree or other, and just standing there saying the UN has no 'credibility' doesn't stop sanctions biting or even, in extreme cases, the bombs dropping. Iran doesn't have that power in the same way. It can tweak the tiger's tail, but sooner or later the tiger is likely to turn around and bite. It's a dangerous game; far too dangerous for the level of possible reward.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Unanimous UN resolutions carry power to some degree or other, and just standing there saying the UN has no 'credibility' doesn't stop sanctions biting or even, in extreme cases, the bombs dropping. Iran doesn't have that power in the same way. It can tweak the tiger's tail, but sooner or later the tiger is likely to turn around and bite. It's a dangerous game; far too dangerous for the level of possible reward.

All well, but it'll not be like Iraq or Afghanistan, don't make that mistake.

[Keltoi]

All well, but it'll not be like Iraq or Afghanistan, don't make that mistake.

You are right about that. Any military action against Iran will be focused on damage, period. Don't buy into Iran's bark. Iran and Iraq fought each other to a standstill, and look how well Iraq faired in the two Gulf Wars. Unless you are referring to terrorist cells, which is a concern obviously. Neither the U.S. nor the U.K. is too concerned about Iran's military capability, the concern is the effect on the region and its politics. Nobody in the West wants a war with Iran, but it seems Iran is going to push those buttons until they get what they wished for.

[Sami Zaatari]

Why am I not surprised that Sami wants a war. That way he can issue more hate messages towards the West.
Well this old Western War Munger would like to see a peaceful resolution.

thanks for showing your true hate for muslims you say i want a war and i hate? that is funny since manchester was calling iran idiots and calling for them to be bombed! and you didnt say anything about that, but you claim i hate and want war, lol how typical of you, thanks for showing your true colors, you see folks this guy thinks its ok for a westerner to call iran idiots and to bomb them, yet if i mention the consequences of what would happen he claims i hate and i want war, wow.

but it is good since you couldnt even refute any of my points of what would happen if a war breaks out because everything i said was true, america and uk have no chance of bombing iran since they cant deal with the consequences of what would happen. :) anyways thanks for showing your true hate for muslims.

[England]

thanks for showing your true hate for muslims you say i want a war and i hate? that is funny since manchester was calling iran idiots and calling for them to be bombed! and you didnt say anything about that, but you claim i hate and want war, lol how typical of you, thanks for showing your true colors, you see folks this guy thinks its ok for a westerner to call iran idiots and to bomb them, yet if i mention the consequences of what would happen he claims i hate and i want war, wow.

but it is good since you couldnt even refute any of my points of what would happen if a war breaks out because everything i said was true, america and uk have no chance of bombing iran since they cant deal with the consequences of what would happen. :) anyways thanks for showing your true hate for muslims.

What aload of coswollop. No chance of bombing Iran?? It's brewing and if Iran continue to step out of line then Iran will face the consequences. Yeah it will increase terrorism against the west and that would breed Islamophobia which would also mean muslims living in the west would also get the thick of it. Islamophobia helps right wing parties grow...
War isn't a laughing matter. You lot are going "haha you'll face the consequences blar-de-blar" but so will you...
But if Iran continue then there's obviously no alternative. They're not the people you can just sit down and talk with...

[Sami Zaatari]

so will we? lol go ahead and attack muslims in europe, we are not scared like you, there are 100 million muslims in europe and even if you attack us in europe you will face consequences so go on and do what you want, you can never break our moral, but your moral is very easy to break, as i said if you lose 100 soldiers your moral is gone, and when you lose up to a thousand soldiers in one week your whole nation will call for the end of the war and you will see.

and you say you will attack us in your countries, dont forget that your people also live in our countries: egypt, uae, bahrain, turkey, morroco, tunis, indonesia, and manyyyyyyy others and you can bet that if you westerners go and attack muslims on a wide-scale in your countries that muslims in their countries will not sit by and let your ppl live peacefully in theirs, so therefore again you lose, so as they say 'bring it on' :)

[Curious girl2]

Will you people just listen to yourselves? Way too much testosterone going on here.......

Peace
CG

[England]

so will we? lol go ahead and attack muslims in europe, we are not scared like you, there are 100 million muslims in europe and even if you attack us in europe you will face consequences so go on and do what you want, you can never break our moral, but your moral is very easy to break, as i said if you lose 100 soldiers your moral is gone, and when you lose up to a thousand soldiers in one week your whole nation will call for the end of the war and you will see.

and you say you will attack us in your countries, dont forget that your people also live in our countries: egypt, uae, bahrain, turkey, morroco, tunis, indonesia, and manyyyyyyy others and you can bet that if you westerners go and attack muslims on a wide-scale in your countries that muslims in their countries will not sit by and let your ppl live peacefully in theirs, so therefore again you lose, so as they say 'bring it on' :)

Are you thick or just very young? That response like many of yours aren't worth me putting in the effort.. LOL

P.S

but your moral is very easy to break

lol you know nothing about the British obviously. Many will disagree... :) Just refer back to both world wars for starters :)


Now back on topic....

[Sami Zaatari]

the thick one seems to be you as you once again cant actually respond to what i say since you know its true, but go on and blow your hot air since thats all you have, we still have your 15 soldiers lol all you have is hot steam and empty threats you CANT DO ANYTHING you cant even beat iraqi millitias and you wanna make yourself look strong lol plz who are you kidding? go to your local pub and have yourself a beer and get drunk and sing for your queen lol. lets hope iran sentences the 15 british terrorists :)

[England]

the thick one seems to be you as you once again cant actually respond to what i say since you know its true, but go on and blow your hot air since thats all you have, we still have your 15 soldiers lol all you have is hot steam and empty threats you CANT DO ANYTHING you cant even beat iraqi millitias and you wanna make yourself look strong lol plz who are you kidding? go to your local pub and have yourself a beer and get drunk and sing for your queen lol. lets hope iran sentences the 15 british terrorists :)

Do you know why nobody is putting in the effort with their responses to you? lol think about it :D I've given you a couple of clues in the posts I've sent you :) Your responses are full of anger and desperation..

Work it out, then move back on topic...

[Sami Zaatari]

you dont reply because you cant dispute what i said, everything i said is true and you cant stand it, you brainwashed yourself into thinking that your so strong and superior, i bring you back down to earth to let you know that you cant boss us muslims around and get away with it safe and sound.

but anyway using your criteria, muslims are justified if they bomb your country, because you say bomb iran for unjustly arresting britians, well you and your allies have arrested many innocent muslims and many are held in cuba by you thugs, hence if muslims bomb your country dont complain since it will be justified according to you :) thanks.

[samah12]

Perhaps it was a blunder on Irans part or maybe a counter to the Iranian nationals taken by America last week (what is good for the goose is good for the gander). Either way war is never the answer.

[England]

you dont reply because you cant dispute what i said, everything i said is true and you cant stand it, you brainwashed yourself into thinking that your so strong and superior, i bring you back down to earth to let you know that you cant boss us muslims around and get away with it safe and sound.

but anyway using your criteria, muslims are justified if they bomb your country, because you say bomb iran for unjustly arresting britians, well you and your allies have arrested many innocent muslims and many are held in cuba by you thugs, hence if muslims bomb your country dont complain since it will be justified according to you :) thanks.

The first paragraph again isn't worth putting in the effort in. It's just a childish response. It doesn't mean I "can't dispute what" you said. It basically means I'm not going to lower myself to who's more superior, who had a better morale, who has better this and that because basically what you've said has come out of your backside :)

The last paragraph however is more like it.
There is a difference between Iran and Britain. Iran is building nuclear weapons but at the same time they have threatened "to wipe Israel off the map" which we should prevent from happening. Britain threatens nobody to be wiped off the map. Then the Iranians are funding and handing weapons to Iraqis to attack British troops, which in itself is a declaration of war. Then the kidnapping of Iranians in Iraqi territory and then the taunts..

Tut tut tut

[Sami Zaatari]

lets say for instance they werent in iranian waters, who cares? how many innocent muslims in iraq have been held in by uk troops? how many innocent muslims in uk have been arrested and held in prison for weeks? why dont these british ppl stop being hypocrites, they arrest hundreds of innocent muslims and they dont say a word, they act like its okay, but now when 15 of their men are arrested they go all mad, once again showing the british arrogance which will lead them nowhere.

[samah12]

Sorry did I read your comment correctly Sami? "Muslims are justified if they bomb your country". I am Muslim and this is my country. The original comment about bombing Iran was clearly made to provoke, so will you now be provoked and show the world that Muslims want to bomb everyone (as the west believes). Surely this issue is political, not religious?

[Sami Zaatari]

The first paragraph again isn't worth putting in the effort in. It's just a childish response. It doesn't mean I "can't dispute what" you said. It basically means I'm not going to lower myself to who's more superior, who had a better morale, who has better this and that because basically what you've said has come out of your backside :)

The last paragraph however is more like it.
There is a difference between Iran and Britain. Iran is building nuclear weapons but at the same time they have threatened "to wipe Israel off the map" which we should prevent from happening. Britain threatens nobody to be wiped off the map. Then the Iranians are funding and handing weapons to Iraqis to attack British troops, which in itself is a declaration of war.

lol you make me laugh, talk about being thick as you say, you say iran are BUILDING NUCLEAR bombs, last i checked england have nuclear bombs!

britian threatens to not wipe ppl off the map, yeah, they just invade them and bomb the heck out of that country all based on a lie, such as iraq, where is saddams wmd which you went to iraq for? so your goverment are liars, invaders, and innocent hundreds of innocent muslims, therefore a country like you is no better with such weapons lol you act like your country is so innocent and a great example to rest of the world NOT!

and iran said they would wipe israel off the map? as usual just like your goverment you lie, i suggest you go learn farsi but since your an arrogant british man i dont expect you to understand farsi which is the iranian language, instead of relying on a mis-translation i suggest you go read the actual statement and learn farsi but its ok your always following lies i dont expect much more from you. :) gosh no wonder your country is so messed up i mean lol just look at you and your responses sums england up very well.

[noodles]

Will you people just listen to yourselves? Way too much testosterone going on here.......

Peace
CG

I do believe she is correct.

People I do believe this is meant to be discussed politely and with manner. If you do want to state your opinion, do so in a polite fashion.

It seems many of us are forgetting how act in a civil manner.

and lastly, do continue the discussion. :statisfie

[Sami Zaatari]

Sorry did I read your comment correctly Sami? "Muslims are justified if they bomb your country". I am Muslim and this is my country. The original comment about bombing Iran was clearly made to provoke, so will you now be provoked and show the world that Muslims want to bomb everyone (as the west believes). Surely this issue is political, not religious?

i said USING HIS CRITERIA, if we use his criteria then yes muslims are justified in bombing england since england holds many innocent muslims hence muslims would be justified in bombing england, as he said britian should bomb iran for illegally holding britians :) so he cant complain if muslims bomb UK for illegally holding muslims, im using his criteria this isnt my criteria, it is his. :)

[England]

lets say for instance they werent in iranian waters, who cares? how many innocent muslims in iraq have been held in by uk troops? how many innocent muslims in uk have been arrested and held in prison for weeks? why dont these british ppl stop being hypocrites, they arrest hundreds of innocent muslims and they dont say a word, they act like its okay, but now when 15 of their men are arrested they go all mad, once again showing the british arrogance which will lead them nowhere.

Britain is in constant terror alert. Mistakes will be made. Do you know how much terrorist activity is being monitored today? It's a certain group of people amongst your religion that is putting our people at risk, in danger so we are on high alert and must stop such activity from taking place. Iran however isn't on terror alert. In fact they are funding terrorist organisations to attack the British, they are threatening other countries, they are giving their ammunition to the enemies of the British.

[Sami Zaatari]

Britain is in constant terror alert. Mistakes will be made. Do you know how much terrorist activity is being monitored today? It's a certain group of people amongst your religion that is putting our people at risk, in danger so we are on high alert and must stop such activity from taking place. Iran however isn't on terror alert. In fact they are funding terrorist organisations to attack the British, they are threatening other countries, they are giving their ammunition to the enemies of the British.

*yawn* thanks for showing your arrogance, you seem to think you only arrest innocent muslims in your country, but i said in iraq too but oyu ignored that. your country has NO RIGHT to be in iraq and they want u out of their country, so why are you arresting many innocent iraqi muslims in their own country when you have no right to be there in the first place. so your arrests on muslims isnt limited to inside england only, its taking place in a muslim country in which you have no right to be in.

[England]

lol you make me laugh, talk about being thick as you say, you say iran are BUILDING NUCLEAR bombs, last i checked england have nuclear bombs!

britian threatens to not wipe ppl off the map, yeah, they just invade them and bomb the heck out of that country all based on a lie, such as iraq, where is saddams wmd which you went to iraq for? so your goverment are liars, invaders, and innocent hundreds of innocent muslims, therefore a country like you is no better with such weapons lol you act like your country is so innocent and a great example to rest of the world NOT!

and iran said they would wipe israel off the map? as usual just like your goverment you lie, i suggest you go learn farsi but since your an arrogant british man i dont expect you to understand farsi which is the iranian language, instead of relying on a mis-translation i suggest you go read the actual statement and learn farsi but its ok your always following lies i dont expect much more from you. :) gosh no wonder your country is so messed up i mean lol just look at you and your responses sums england up very well.

It's allllllllllll down to translation... always the case lol :giggling: Same with Nick Griffin. His speeches have been misinterpreted by the media. He's not racist :)

Oh and about Britain with nuclear weapons... we haven't threatened other nations, we haven't used them, we aren't loony like the Iranians are. You're whining about the "hundreds of muslims" that have been killed? That death rate is nothing in comparison to the death rate of 2 million during saddam Husseins regime... http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html
You should be thankful :D

[samah12]

Sami. Yes you used his criteria but having read your earlier comments your criteria doesnt sound too far from his. Of course we cannot accept the 'confessions' of the captured british, in the same way we cannot accept the 'confessions' of the tortured (admitted by America) Muslims held in Guantanamo. Anyone will confess anything if tortured or afraid of being tortured. However, I go back to my point that this is a political issue and not a religious one, that is why Islam has such a bad reputation in the west because some people cannot seperate the two issues. We all have to admit that terrorism does exist and some people use our religion to further their cause.

England. I think some of your comments are ill informed and offensive but I would like to thank you for your understanding that it is just a certain group of people amongstout religion causing these problems.

[Sami Zaatari]

who brought nick griffin up? typical you run around the bush, again go learn farsi and read what he did actually say instead of running around in circles bringing up BNP when i didnt bring them up, say bnp arent racists, lol like i care, i say insurgents who attack uk troops in iraq and afghanistan arent terrorists neither.

[samah12]

"England don't threaten to use their nuclear weapons on other countries". I would certainly hide under the bed if Iran obtained nuclear weapons but we cannot be hypocrites, all countries should destroy these weapons or allow all countries to have them. Who are we to say who should and who should not have them?

[Sami Zaatari]

Sami. Yes you used his criteria but having read your earlier comments your criteria doesnt sound too far from his. Of course we cannot accept the 'confessions' of the captured british, in the same way we cannot accept the 'confessions' of the tortured (admitted by America) Muslims held in Guantanamo. Anyone will confess anything if tortured or afraid of being tortured. However, I go back to my point that this is a political issue and not a religious one, that is why Islam has such a bad reputation in the west because some people cannot seperate the two issues. We all have to admit that terrorism does exist and some people use our religion to further their cause.

England. I think some of your comments are ill informed and offensive but I would like to thank you for your understanding that it is just a certain group of people amongstout religion causing these problems.

go learn Islam abit instead of bringing ignorant statements up, if any muslim is killed or has his land stolen by a non-muslim it becomes the duty of every single muslim to help the muslim, even if he isnt killed for a religous reason even if he killed for a political reason it changes nothing at all but it is still a duty for every muslim to help the other fellow muslim.

secondly, the prophet even said jihad can be made if a mans land is stolen, so evem if they dont attack you for religion and simply steal your land you can make a jihad against them. you seem to think muslims are held by borders, wrong, muslim are one community, a kaffir hurting a muslim in indonesia makes it incumbent upon a muslim in alaska to help his fellow muslims, we are not bound by borders or any of that.

so again if any muslim is killed by a kaffir on such a wide scale like now and the past 20 years by non muslims it does become a religou matter even if the enemies who are killing us isnt religously motivated, so plz dont make these ignorant comments which have no basis in Islam.

[England]

"England don't threaten to use their nuclear weapons on other countries". I would certainly hide under the bed if Iran obtained nuclear weapons but we cannot be hypocrites, all countries should destroy these weapons or allow all countries to have them. Who are we to say who should and who should not have them?

If every other nation scrapped their nuclear weapons I too would be in favour of scrapping them here. That though is very unlikely therefore nuclear deterrents are needed to warn off those with nuclear capabilities. Iran though should not be trusted with nuclear weapons especially after carrying out those threats. The Iranian government have lost a screw. A member of that same government came out and claimed that Adolph Hitler was a Jew, the thread can be found somewhere in these forums. That just shows you how mentally unstable they actually are.

[noodles]

Oh Sami, lets not go around being offensive to anyone. If you feel you must correct someone, do so in a better fashion instead of putting them down.

Oh England, I do believe many of your arguments are invalid too. And once again, no need to blame Sami for decision that the Iranian government has made, and that goes for you too Sami.

It seems you loose all sight of politeness once discussions start about your country. If you have to be nationalistic, then do so in a manner others will listen to you if you talk.

[Sami Zaatari]

i said dont make ignorant statements, how is that offensive? go learn what being offensive means instead of making an ignorant statement like that. thank you very much.

[England]

i said dont make ignorant statements, how is that offensive? go learn what being offensive means instead of making an ignorant statement like that. thank you very much.

I think somebody has been affected by this debate... Go to bed and sleep it off :D

sleep tight.

[samah12]

Sami. I understand that Muslims are to protect each other, see my earlier comment that I am Muslim and British so I think I understand that Muslims are international not just middle eastern better than you do. An example of what I was trying to say is that if a man steals from a bank and he is Muslim should we all go to protect him? No, he has committed a crime. So if someone is arrested for terrorist offences (as long as he is not tortured and given opportunity to defend himself) then this is a political/legal issue not a religious one. Or do you feel that he should not be arrested simply because he is Muslim? The British people taken were either in the wrong waters (disputed between Iran and Iraq for centuries) or were taken as a political tool. How is this a religious issue?
If you call me ignorant again I shall simply not discuss with you.

England. There are a number of european historians that believe the grandfather of Hitler was a jew and this fuelled his hatred of the jews.

[AvarAllahNoor]

You are right about that. Any military action against Iran will be focused on damage, period. Don't buy into Iran's bark. Iran and Iraq fought each other to a standstill, and look how well Iraq faired in the two Gulf Wars. Unless you are referring to terrorist cells, which is a concern obviously. Neither the U.S. nor the U.K. is too concerned about Iran's military capability, the concern is the effect on the region and its politics. Nobody in the West wants a war with Iran, but it seems Iran is going to push those buttons until they get what they wished for.

Hey it's US and UK wanting the war. They are full of lies and deciet WMD's in Iraq are proof of this. They doctored the reports and whatnot. Then took out Saddam because he didn't play ball with the US.

And yes terrorist cells will be the next best thing, that is why I'm saying don't provoke them. Unless you want america to be like Isreal is, bombs going off in marketplaces and cities randomly. Be dimplomatic. DO NOT BULLY YOUR WAY INTO A SITUATION TO INFLICT YOUR WAY UPON OTHERS. This is why i'm stongly against all this US ''might'' - You'll regret it. Iraq is ruined, and Afghanistan, well they've been there how long? And they can't defeat a few mountain insurgents LMAO.Yup how great is your military eh, my how great they are.....

*S n i g g e r s*

[mohammed farah]

theyre something fishy about this, the uk sailers who were in theyre boats should have been able to see the iranian ship from over 20 miles away or so and also why did the helicopter who was hooovering over the sailers not intervene and stop the iranian taking the sailers.

[AvarAllahNoor]

I do believe she is correct.

People I do believe this is meant to be discussed politely and with manner. If you do want to state your opinion, do so in a polite fashion.

It seems many of us are forgetting how act in a civil manner.

We are having out little online war.....:p

[England]

Sami. I understand that Muslims are to protect each other, see my earlier comment that I am Muslim and British so I think I understand that Muslims are international not just middle eastern better than you do. An example of what I was trying to say is that if a man steals from a bank and he is Muslim should we all go to protect him? No, he has committed a crime. So if someone is arrested for terrorist offences (as long as he is not tortured and given opportunity to defend himself) then this is a political/legal issue not a religious one. Or do you feel that he should not be arrested simply because he is Muslim? The British people taken were either in the wrong waters (disputed between Iran and Iraq for centuries) or were taken as a political tool. How is this a religious issue?
If you call me ignorant again I shall simply not discuss with you.

England. There are a number of european historians that believe the grandfather of Hitler was a jew and this fuelled his hatred of the jews.

I know nothing about Adolph Hitler's Grandfather but to call Adolph Hitler a Jew is INSANE... :giggling:

[samah12]

I do not agree that UK or US should have gone to war in the Middle East and yes our governments lied to us. We had to do something to protect the Kurds and Kuwaiti's, (as we protected the Muslims in Bosnia) but this probably could have been done through diplomatic means rather than bombing and killing. As a Brit I am truly ashamed of my country for the destruction and civil war it has brought to Iraq over oil but I do not think that makes the British bad people, it just means we have a bad government.

However, I now live in the middle east and believe me the governments there lie as well, torture in police stations is normal and bribes rule the country. So who has the perfect system?

[samah12]

No, to call Hitler a jew is an insult to the millions of jews he murdered. Just thought I'd point out it isn't just the loony in Iran that says that.

[AvarAllahNoor]

I do not agree that UK or US should have gone to war in the Middle East and yes our governments lied to us. We had to do something to protect the Kurds and Kuwaiti's, (as we protected the Muslims in Bosnia) but this probably could have been done through diplomatic means rather than bombing and killing. As a Brit I am truly ashamed of my country for the destruction and civil war it has brought to Iraq over oil but I do not think that makes the British bad people, it just means we have a bad government.

However, I now live in the middle east and believe me the governments there lie as well, torture in police stations is normal and bribes rule the country. So who has the perfect system?

Indeed. But still does not mean we can throw our weight around. If we do, expect retaliation it's the only thing for it.

[samah12]

The helicopter would not intervene or this would be an act of aggression and the start of something even worse than we have now. The British would know the Iranian boat was 20 miles away but if they believed they were in Iraqi waters why should they worry about it?

I agree avar, unfortunately it is the ordinary people that always suffer, women buying oil at the market in Iraq, people on the bus going to work in London and workers and tourists enjoying the sun in sharm. Maybe we should make our leaders get in a boxing ring and slug it out instead.

[Keltoi]

Hey it's US and UK wanting the war. They are full of lies and deciet WMD's in Iraq are proof of this. They doctored the reports and whatnot. Then took out Saddam because he didn't play ball with the US.

And yes terrorist cells will be the next best thing, that is why I'm saying don't provoke them. Unless you want america to be like Isreal is, bombs going off in marketplaces and cities randomly. Be dimplomatic. DO NOT BULLY YOUR WAY INTO A SITUATION TO INFLICT YOUR WAY UPON OTHERS. This is why i'm stongly against all this US ''might'' - You'll regret it. Iraq is ruined, and Afghanistan, well they've been there how long? And they can't defeat a few mountain insurgents LMAO.Yup how great is your military eh, my how great they are.....

*S n i g g e r s*

Diplomacy only works if diplomacy works. You can play the diplomat all day long, but if the other side doesn't have any intention of negotiating a resolution, then its all for nothing.

It won't be quite as easy for Iran to use terrorist agents to carry out attacks overseas, especially in the U.S. or U.K. Homegrown terrorists are more difficult to pinpoint, but foreign agents inside a country are easier to find and stop. Especially after the reality of 9-11. Unless of course you are assuming all Muslims are terrorists? Didn't think so.

As for defeating a few "mountain insurgents". It would be one thing if these "mountain insurgents" actually engaged in conventional warfare, but of course they don't. They set bombs and run away. That is hard to deal with, especially with a large army mostly standing around all day. The Iranian army doesn't really factor in, since any hypothetical war would be primarily air based.

[Keltoi]

Indeed. But still does not mean we can throw our weight around. If we do, expect retaliation it's the only thing for it.

Same goes both ways. If you grab a bull by the horns..well.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Diplomacy only works if diplomacy works. You can play the diplomat all day long, but if the other side doesn't have any intention of negotiating a resolution, then its all for nothing.

.

Telling iran to give up nuclear power is not negotiating. So that;s one off the table....

Also you don't get to choose who the other side defends itse;f, it itsn't a game of poker you know. You invade, you get attacked in any way possible.

I demand you leave the countries right now!!:D

[Keltoi]

Telling iran to give up nuclear power is not negotiating. So that;s one off the table....

Also you don't get to choose who the other side defends itse;f, it itsn't a game of poker you know. You invade, you get attacked in any way possible.

I demand you leave the countries right now!!:D

Nobody is demanding Iran give up nuclear power, they are demanding that Iran stop uranium production for nuclear weapons.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Same goes both ways. If you grab a bull by the horns..well.

Even the bull is alarmed now, look at the past mistakes I've spoken of in previous posts....

[Keltoi]

Even the bull is alarmed now, look at the past mistakes I've spoken of in previous posts....

The bull is alarmed? You mean by the difficulty in Iraq? The politicians are alarmed by the expense and the length of time this fiasco in Iraq has taken. Don't mistake a difficult occupation with conventional war.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Nobody is demanding Iran give up nuclear power, they are demanding that Iran stop uranium production for nuclear weapons.

They won't comply, and neither should they.

BTW - I'm in favour of UK re-newing Trident too. We should not give it up. But the right for other nations should be practiced to have the same is required.

[deen_2007]

They tremble at such threats....:rollseyes & Inspecting is another word for spying isn't it eh.

UK should never have got in this mess, joining forces with US was the biggest mistake this country has made for many years. How would we feel if Iranian boats were patrolimg the Channel. Can't image we would sit back and take it, why should the Iranians be any different :D

exactly!!! now i fear this will turn into a big wave. UK have done thebiggest mistake joining US...i bet all this spying buisness was USA 's plan!! :raging: ...and as usual UK 's being used in the middle.

[AvarAllahNoor]

The bull is alarmed? You mean by the difficulty in Iraq? The politicians are alarmed by the expense and the length of time this fiasco in Iraq has taken. Don't mistake a difficult occupation with conventional war.

Does that not speak volumes? Do not invade for selfish needs. i e Your own.

Les go into Mugabes territoy, I'll be in favour of that. But hey i'm not a fan of white people though am I, I'm asian.... :rollseyes

[Keltoi]

Does that not speak volumes? Do not invade for selfish needs. i e Your own.

Les go into Mugabes territoy, I'll be in favour of that. But hey i'm not a fan of white people though am I, I'm asian.... :rollseyes

So why would you support going into Mugabe's territory?

[samah12]

Surely a countries past actions should be taken into account, because of Irans aggresive past of course the world doesn't want it to have nuclear weapons and I pray they never get them but the countries that hold nuclear weapons should agree to destroy theirs if they are going to go around demanding that other countries don't have them. I know it will never happen but I am seriously conflicted because Iran should NOT have them but if I say it's ok for us then I am being a hypocrite.

Look at Libya, they have a history of violent acts, yet an agreement with the west stopped the violence. It is SHAMEFUL that the Lybians have complied and the US and UK have failed to hold up their end of the bargain. What incentive is that to other countries to make peaceful agreements?

[Yanal]

Asalam alkum warkmatulah wabrkatuh my brothers and sisters i think bush is just a showoff to be all that but i don't like bush to attack iran or iraq sorry if i am wrong forgive me if i am wrong and May Allah (swt) bless us and let us go to paridise AMEEM :w:

[Keltoi]

Surely a countries past actions should be taken into account, because of Irans aggresive past of course the world doesn't want it to have nuclear weapons and I pray they never get them but the countries that hold nuclear weapons should agree to destroy theirs if they are going to go around demanding that other countries don't have them. I know it will never happen but I am seriously conflicted because Iran should NOT have them but if I say it's ok for us then I am being a hypocrite.

Look at Libya, they have a history of violent acts, yet an agreement with the west stopped the violence. It is SHAMEFUL that the Lybians have complied and the US and UK have failed to hold up their end of the bargain. What incentive is that to other countries to make peaceful agreements?

What was the US and UK's end of the bargain?

[Hashim_507]

The U.s,Israel and its allies are wanting a big war with Iran. Its clear majority of them have history of wars and uccupation from there past and present. U.S and Israel are being hypocritical trying to disarm Iran from building weapons. Iran does not have history of wars like U.S or U.K and, also Iran never use nuke bombs on innocent civilians.

[AvarAllahNoor]

So why would you support going into Mugabe's territory?

Erm is it not obvious....? Or Sudan for that matter, I believe it's arabian mlitias killing Africans, but we don't want to stop that do we.....

[Keltoi]

The U.s,Israel and its allies are wanting a big war with Iran. Its clear majority of them have history of wars and uccupation from there past and present. U.S and Israel are being hypocritical trying to disarm Iran from building weapons. Iran does not have history of wars like U.S or U.K and, also Iran never use nuke bombs on innocent civilians.

Iran doesn't have a history of wars? Might want to look at a history book again.

[AvarAllahNoor]

News just in....

Iran's government says it will reduce cooperation with United Nations nuclear inspectors in response to new sanctions imposed by the UN Security Council.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said separately that the sanctions were illegal and Iran would not stop its nuclear work "even for one second".

The sanctions block Iranian arms exports and freeze assets of anyone involved in nuclear and missile work.

Iran denies seeking nuclear weapons, insisting its work is peaceful.


:p

[Keltoi]

News just in....

Iran's government says it will reduce cooperation with United Nations nuclear inspectors in response to new sanctions imposed by the UN Security Council.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said separately that the sanctions were illegal and Iran would not stop its nuclear work "even for one second".

The sanctions block Iranian arms exports and freeze assets of anyone involved in nuclear and missile work.

Iran denies seeking nuclear weapons, insisting its work is peaceful.


:p

If the nuclear technology they seek was intended for peaceful purposes, that would be easy enough to prove. Allow inspections by the IAEA and continue with the peaceful pursuit of nuclear power.

[Hashim_507]

Iran doesn't have a history of wars? Might want to look at a history book again.

I am sure i read the history book well; as for 2007 the U.S and Israel have alot of war compaigns plans. Also i am sure U.K have notorious for there past and present colonization. Did you ever witness Iran bombing innocent civilians for no reason? Look now the u.s is leading for bombing innocent civilians and also its allies.

[AvarAllahNoor]

If the nuclear technology they seek was intended for peaceful purposes, that would be easy enough to prove. Allow inspections by the IAEA and continue with the peaceful pursuit of nuclear power.

Why should they prove anything? I don't like hypocrisy, neither do they.

BTW - You ignored my Mugabe and Sudan post......? :D

[Keltoi]

Why should they prove anything? I don't like hypocrisy, neither do they.

BTW - You ignored my Mugabe and Sudan post......? :D

I didn't ignore anything, I asked you why you would support action against Mugabe.

[SATalha]

what ever the case do we need another war in the m.east? And if it is going 2 b nations like the u.s and britain doing, why dont they look at themselves first. Can u really tell me that the u.s doesnt have one of the most curupt guvernment? And the u.k? Why shuld they be fighters of justice, they dont evan have that in their own lands!!!!

[Keltoi]

I am sure i read the history book well; as for 2007 the U.S and Israel have alot of war compaigns plans. Also i am sure U.K have notorious for there past and present colonization. Did you ever witness Iran bombing innocent civilians for no reason? Look now the u.s is leading for bombing innocent civilians and also its allies.

I can't quite understand what you are trying to say, but characterizing Iran as somehow being morally superior to the U.S. or the U.K. is your right, still doesn't deal with the situation we find ourselves in now, just throws out a red herring.

[Keltoi]

what ever the case do we need another war in the m.east? And if it is going 2 b nations like the u.s and britain doing, why dont they look at themselves first. Can u really tell me that the u.s doesnt have one of the most curupt guvernment? And the u.k? Why shuld they be fighters of justice, they dont evan have that in their own lands!!!!

Any conflict with Iran isn't going to be about "justice", it will be about Iran pushing the status quo to the point where violence is inevitable.

[deen_2007]

what ever the case do we need another war in the m.east? And if it is going 2 b nations like the u.s and britain doing, why dont they look at themselves first. Can u really tell me that the u.s doesnt have one of the most curupt guvernment? And the u.k? Why shuld they be fighters of justice, they dont evan have that in their own lands!!!!

true say...arrgh...what is UK doing? soon we will have WAR here (UK)...won't we?..i mean their messing with too many countries...and one day someone will backfire bad. Iran is strong...:raging:

[AvarAllahNoor]

I didn't ignore anything, I asked you why you would support action against Mugabe.

Well I did think it was self explanatory, but obviously not....

My concern is for the people of Zimbabwe and the dictatorship it's under. But then no oil for us and you is there. Forget Sudan too, why go and help those that need it when we can target other countries that don't want invading.

[Keltoi]

true say...arrgh...what is UK doing? soon we will have WAR here (UK)...won't we?..i mean their messing with too many countries...and one day someone will backfire bad. Iran is strong...:raging:

Iran is strong?:rollseyes Yeah, so strong its war with Iraq ended in a stalemate with millions of deaths.

[samah12]

I only know the general outline from the BBC World news interview with Gaddafi. Libya agreed to stop terrorist actions against the west and in return US and UK would provide financial aid and technology for i believe it was their power industry. Some of the money was forthcoming but the technology wasn't. I was astonished at the interview, having spent years believing Gaddafi to be a loony of the first order he was actually rather reasonable and I ended up nodding in agreement. My apologies if I have misunderstood the terms of the agreement but my point was if we make agreements we should stick to them as a good example for future negotiations.

[noodles]

I do believe that if the sanctions block Iranian arms exports and freeze assets of anyone involved in nuclear and missile work, that Iran will turn into another North Korea? Am I right?

They seem to be doing fine. Sure there is poverty here and there, but illegal imports and exports are always there to feed the country.

I do believe that nothing will happen about the nuclear weapons, Iran will continue with its plans to acquire more nuclear power.

As for those British folks in Iran, nothing will happen. They will be kept as hostages. [That is just my prediction, don't twist and mold it into anything else]

[Keltoi]

Well I did think it was self explanatory, but obviously not....

My concern is for the people of Zimbabwe and the dictatorship it's under. But then no oil for us and you is there. Forget Sudan too, why go and help those that need it when we can target other countries that don't want invading.

Forget the oil, that is a red herring and not even based in reality.

The reasons for lack of action in Rwanda, Sudan, and elsewhere comes down to what happened in Mogadishu. Ideally the U.N. should be taking responsibility for strictly humanitarian efforts. Unfortunately, the corruption in the U.N. has damaged its effectiveness. Hopefully the new secretary-general will take the humanitarian role of the U.N. more seriously.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Iran is strong?:rollseyes Yeah, so strong its war with Iraq ended in a stalemate with millions of deaths.

Well technically Ieaq should have won, because it was the US backing them. They can't even do that right. hehe

[Keltoi]

Well technically Ieaq should have won, because it was the US backing them. They can't even do that right. hehe

More lack of history. The U.S. backed both parties in the Iran/Iran War. If Iraq was starting to get the advantage, the U.S. would give aid to Iran, and vice versa. The interest of the United States was to keep the war going. Bad policy? Maybe, but the U.S. was far from Iraq's honest ally in that conflict.

[SATalha]

iam sick of seeing that red-neck president yabbering on about freedom, liberty and justice. The man cant evan spell the words let alone uphold them. Iran will be a more dificult opönant, trust me they have been prepering 4 this.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Forget the oil, that is a red herring and not even based in reality.

The reasons for lack of action in Rwanda, Sudan, and elsewhere comes down to what happened in Mogadishu. Ideally the U.N. should be taking responsibility for strictly humanitarian efforts. Unfortunately, the corruption in the U.N. has damaged its effectiveness. Hopefully the new secretary-general will take the humanitarian role of the U.N. more seriously.

Corruption?? My word delete this before Trumble sees this and has an heart attack, because she thinks they are SO credible....

BTW - Using Somalia as an excuse is wearing a bit thin. If it was right, you'd have learned not to torment iran by now, having failed twice already in iraq and afghanistan.

[Keltoi]

iam sick of seeing that red-neck president yabbering on about freedom, liberty and justice. The man cant evan spell the words let alone uphold them. Iran will be a more dificult opönant, trust me they have been prepering 4 this.

Preparing for what? You can't prepare for the amount of destruction the U.S. and U.K. airforce can inflict on a conventional army. There will be no occupation, just war. That is a terrible thought, but don't confuse Iran's bark with their limited bite.

[AvarAllahNoor]

More lack of history. The U.S. backed both parties in the Iran/Iran War. If Iraq was starting to get the advantage, the U.S. would give aid to Iran, and vice versa. The interest of the United States was to keep the war going. Bad policy? Maybe, but the U.S. was far from Iraq's honest ally in that conflict.

And this makes the world want to trust the US?. Wow the US are decietful. - Now you can see why I have no support for you lot and even the UK. - Viva Iran I say...

*Does a Jig*

[Keltoi]

Corruption?? My word delete this before Trumble sees this and has an heart attack, because she thinks they are SO credible....

BTW - Using Somalia as an excuse is wearing a bit thin. If it was right, you'd have learned not to torment iran by now, having failed twice already in iraq and afghanistan.

The two issues aren't even related. Bill Clinton pulled out of Somalia because of political pressure and the lack of an effective partner in the U.N. Iran and Afghanistan were successful with the initial goals, the removal of the Taliban and the removal of Saddam Hussein. It is the nation building element that has caused the problem. My dislike of George W. Bush stems from the lie he told the voters during the campaign, which was that he was opposed to nation building.

[AvarAllahNoor]

iam sick of seeing that red-neck president yabbering on about freedom, liberty and justice. The man cant evan spell the words let alone uphold them..

I agree. Bring back Clinton.... (Hillary is hopeful too)

[SATalha]

I dönt want it 2 come 2 war. But if it happens expect freak bombings on civilians. Oh it was an accident...how many times av we heard that 1

[Keltoi]

And this makes the world want to trust the US?. Wow the US are decietful. - Now you can see why I have no support for you lot and even the UK. - Viva Iran I say...

*Does a Jig*

I'm glad you think this is all so funny. I wonder how the Iranian people will feel when their president drags them into armed conflict with the U.S. or the U.K., or both? Think you will see many "jigs" in Tehran?

[don532]

I can smell it. But prey 2 allah that it doesnt lead 2 war.

Amen. Let's hope and pray cool heads on all sides prevail.

[AvarAllahNoor]

My dislike of George W. Bush stems from the lie he told the voters during the campaign, which was that he was opposed to nation building.

You dislike him? I must say this is not visiible from your posts.

[SATalha]

You dislike him? I must say this is not visiible from your posts.

Do i hint sarcasm?

[AvarAllahNoor]

I'm glad you think this is all so funny. I wonder how the Iranian people will feel when their president drags them into armed conflict with the U.S. or the U.K., or both? Think you will see many "jigs" in Tehran?

I'm commending their defiance against bullying tactics. - If killing innocents makes you lot so proud, well just remember we all will be held accountable for our sins in the Court higher than any on this earth.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Do i hint sarcasm?

Hint? I couldn't emphasise it any more if I tried....

[Keltoi]

You dislike him? I must say this is not visiible from your posts.

I have problems with George W. Bush, and he is far from my favorite president. On the issue of Iran, I don't believe George Bush is doing much of anything to make a war with Iran, his legacy is based on Iraq. It is the Iranian president, not Mr. Bush, who has brought us to this stand-off.

[SATalha]

Joker, ur right every 1 will be held accountable. I the people in the west are in a state of denial. You are as currupt as ur enemy!

[Keltoi]

I'm comending their defiance against bullying tactics. - If killing innocents makes you lot so proud, well just remember we all will be held accountable for our sins in the Court higher than any on this earth.

You're commending the defiance of Ahmedinijad, the same guy who has threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the map and says this at the same time he is seeking nuclear weapons. I doubt those sane Iranians, probably a very silent majority, want anything to do with their leader's "defiance".

[AvarAllahNoor]

I have problems with George W. Bush, and he is far from my favorite president. On the issue of Iran, I don't believe George Bush is doing much of anything to make a war with Iran, his legacy is based on Iraq. It is the Iranian president, not Mr. Bush, who has brought us to this stand-off.

I loathe dubya....

We all know that Blair and Bush now want to bomb Iran to terminate their nuclear activity. To get the public on their side all they have to do is generate a few crisis situations where Iran can be portrayed as the bad guys. This one will be the first of many.

[SATalha]

Wow what an extreme comment he made. I think he ment re-locate! Bullies need 2 be stood up 2.

[AvarAllahNoor]

You're commending the defiance of Ahmedinijad, the same guy who has threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the map and says this at the same time he is seeking nuclear weapons. I doubt those sane Iranians, probably a very silent majority, want anything to do with their leader's "defiance".

Change the record....

Only thing I do reject that iran has said is their denial of the holocaust of the Jews.

[snakelegs]

iam sick of seeing that red-neck president yabbering on about freedom, liberty and justice. The man cant evan spell the words let alone uphold them. Iran will be a more dificult opönant, trust me they have been prepering 4 this.

you're not the only one! he has made the words "freedom" and "democracy" almost obscene.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Wow what an extreme comment he made. I think he ment re-locate! Bullies need 2 be stood up 2.

He was letting off steam I think. It rustled a few feathers though.

[AvarAllahNoor]

you're not the only one! he has made the words "freedom" and "democracy" almost obscene.

Hasn't he just. People in the US are protesting against him and his policies. Yet people like Keltoi fail to see that. He has blinkers on.

[samah12]

Joker, ur right every 1 will be held accountable. I the people in the west are in a state of denial. You are as currupt as ur enemy!

Nice comment and so true. Someone tell me which government in the whole world is not corrupt and out to further only their own interests.

As for Iran saying they want nuclear weapons - did I miss something on the news? They have never said this, we may assume that is what they want but without proof it can only be an assumption.

Of course most Iranians don't want a war, the same as most Brits dont want a war. Most people just want to have enough to pay the gas bill, have a healthy family and not pay too much tax. Not necessarily in that order!!

[deen_2007]

I HATE WARS!!! when will bullies like Bush & Blair stop creating unessesary wars?????
:'( :'( :'(

[AvarAllahNoor]

Keltoi is offline...who's next eh....?

*Pulls up sleeves*

[snakelegs]

Hasn't he just. People in the US are protesting against him and his policies. Yet people like Keltoi fail to see that. He has blinkers on.

i have been opposed to everythng this administration has done, from the beginning until today. i do not have much hope for the future either.

[deen_2007]

^^^ oh.....not war online in LI pls....only kidding....im with u...*gets a saucepan*

[samah12]

I'm commending their defiance against bullying tactics. - If killing innocents makes you lot so proud, well just remember we all will be held accountable for our sins in the Court higher than any on this earth.

Me next!!!! lol

For one moment leave the killings by US and Uk aside, which I do not deny are shameful and wrong. Isn't it Muslim brother killing Muslim brother & sister in Iraq now.

[AvarAllahNoor]

^^^ oh.....not war online in LI pls....only kidding....im with u...*gets a saucepan*

lol - Kitchen utensils are the equivalent of nukes....

[samah12]

lol - Kitchen utensils are the equivalent of nukes....

Wouldn't like to try your cooking then. :D

[deen_2007]

^^ yes sadly...but it is all created by US & UK!

u no..sometimes i wish all the muslims will just get on with each other and help defend their neibouring countries! i mean if iran helped (i no ther was no way) iraq...or saudi helped afgan etc...then US & UK...couldnt hav gone as far as they did!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Wouldn't like to try your cooking then. :D

Haha - I can cook a mean pizza.

I do agree, even though I'm not a muslim, I still do not agree with brutality and forcing upon other people. I should know. The Sikhs are oppressed in a country they saved and got freedom for. Including saving their religion.

[noodles]

Me next!!!! lol

For one moment leave the killings by US and Uk aside, which I do not deny are shameful and wrong. Isn't it Muslim brother killing Muslim brother & sister in Iraq now.

If you think that its bad in Iraq, take a look at Darfur. The killings go at a much larger scale than the Palestine/Israeli conflict.

What is worse is that it is Muslims killing Muslims.

Research that topic and look into it, you'll understand that the commotion people make over 25 people is nothing compared to this.

Ofcourse I'm not saying that the 25 hostages aren't valued, but when you do make the comparison, you'd understand.

[SATalha]

^^ yes sadly...but it is all created by US & UK!

u no..sometimes i wish all the muslims will just get on with each other and help defend their neibouring countries! i mean if iran helped (i no ther was no way) iraq...or saudi helped afgan etc...then US & UK...couldnt hav gone as far as they did!

Very true. But you c sis as anOther sis has already pointed out each nation has its own intrests. Thats why we need 2 get bak 2 da days wen we had people like Uthman, Ali, Abu Bakr dealing with our affairz. And these people are out there we jus need 2 help them get 2 da top.

[deen_2007]

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ^^ oh...all this(muslim killing muslims & WAR) makes me more upset...i should stop visiting such threads....i feel helpless in these situations:'( :'( :'(

[SATalha]

We share ur grief muslim or non muslim, as avarallahnoor has said.

[samah12]

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ^^ oh...all this(muslim killing muslims & WAR) makes me more upset...i should stop visiting such threads....i feel helpless in these situations:'( :'( :'(

Oh no sister don't feel helpless. The history of the world is covered in bloodshed, it is our duty to learn from this and teach our children a better way. Unfortunately we seem to lack on the learning part!

[SATalha]

Ameen 2 that

[samah12]

Very true. But you c sis as anOther sis has already pointed out each nation has its own intrests. Thats why we need 2 get bak 2 da days wen we had people like Uthman, Ali, Abu Bakr dealing with our affairz. And these people are out there we jus need 2 help them get 2 da top.

Surely this is the crux of the problem in Iraq now, there are no good strong leaders coming forth to unite and lead the nation back to stability. And lets be honest who would come forward, they would be assassinated within a week by one side or the other. My worry is that US wants to 'help' select and approve of a new Iraqi leader - why? Are the Iraqi people not capable of choosing their own? It really is time for US and UK to butt out.

[deen_2007]

Oh no sister don't feel helpless. The history of the world is covered in bloodshed, it is our duty to learn from this and teach our children a better way. Unfortunately we seem to lack on the learning part!

your right sis...but...we may learn and teach our children....but its the opposite that create conflict & force war! i still feel we all r helpless....wat exactly can we do? .... muslims dnt even stick by muslims (countries)...so what will us individuals do? :'( :'( :'(

[Khan-Ghalgha]

By the way Ahmadinejad didnt exactly threatened to wipe Israel of the map, if you read the full text(you dont need to know Farsi) you'll see, I dont have the link atm, but just google it if you dont believe me(I'm lazy to do that).

If USrael and Co wants to destroy Iran they can do it without even setting a foot on their soil, but the consequencies of that would be anywhere between very bad and catastrophic, economically and psychologically USrael cant afford a full blown war right now.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Surely this is the crux of the problem in Iraq now, there are no good strong leaders coming forth to unite and lead the nation back to stability. And lets be honest who would come forward, they would be assassinated within a week by one side or the other. My worry is that US wants to 'help' select and approve of a new Iraqi leader - why? Are the Iraqi people not capable of choosing their own? It really is time for US and UK to butt out.

Like you say, but it's pointless untill the occupation leave. It'll be conflict no matter what. Though call me a pessimistic sod, but I do sometimes wonder if the US have fuelled the shia sunni rivalry to use it to their beenfit so as to claim they have to remain as long as possible.

Food for thought that.

[SATalha]

Our people will find a solution inshallah. And yes i dont think war in with iran is possible.

[Khan-Ghalgha]

We individuals should start with our own personal sins before pointing out sins of others, get knowledge(not only of Islam), practice Islam, then turn to your closest family, friends and so on, after that we can talk about resurecting The Caliphate, atm muslims are as far away from Islam as they've probably ever been.
I see no point trying to push for Sharia in muslim countries if the majority of population lacks basic knowledge of Islam or just generally ignorant. We should push for islamic knowledge foremost, dawaah brothers and sisters, especially among ourselves, defeat jahiliya(spelling?) and then defeat your enimies.

And stop playing blaming games, when you're weak - there're always gonna be parties wanting to take advantage of your self-inflicted weakness.

sorry for my english

[samah12]

your right sis...but...we may learn and teach our children....but its the opposite that create conflict & force war! i still feel we all r helpless....wat exactly can we do? .... muslims dnt even stick by muslims (countries)...so what will us individuals do? :'( :'( :'(

We will pray, we will try to live good lives and provide good lives for our children. On the day of judgement we will stand alone and only be accountable for ourselves.

Of course we can also email our governments and tell them enough is enough, elected governments are answerable to the people but they have forgotten that, maybe it is time we reminded them.:)

[deen_2007]

We will pray, we will try to live good lives and provide good lives for our children. On the day of judgement we will stand alone and only be accountable for ourselves.

Of course we can also email our governments and tell them enough is enough, elected governments are answerable to the people but they have forgotten that, maybe it is time we reminded them.:)

thanks sister...i needed that push to know what to do. ..... government wise. and as for the 1st statement...true...we need to think about things we will be asked about on judgement day...

[samah12]

Like you say, but it's pointless untill the occupation leave. It'll be conflict no matter what. Though call me a pessimistic sod, but I do sometimes wonder if the US have fuelled the shia sunni rivalry to use it to their beenfit so as to claim they have to remain as long as possible.

Food for thought that.

You are a pessimistic sod!!!!

I can agree in part, yes the west have poured fuel on the fire but I personally don't think it is so they can stay there longer, it is to destabalise the ummah so it is up to us not to let that happen. I can't agree that it is pointless until the occupation finishes, because the country need to see a strong leader emerge before the civil war will end. If a strong leader came forward it would be reason enough to make the occupation finish. Bit of a catch 22 really.

[samah12]

We individuals should start with our own personal sins before pointing out sins of others, get knowledge(not only of Islam), practice Islam, then turn to your closest family, friends and so on, after that we can talk about resurecting The Caliphate, atm muslims are as far away from Islam as they've probably ever been.
I see no point trying to push for Sharia in muslim countries if the majority of population lacks basic knowledge of Islam or just generally ignorant. We should push for islamic knowledge foremost, dawaah brothers and sisters, especially among ourselves, defeat jahiliya(spelling?) and then defeat your enimies.

And stop playing blaming games, when you're weak - there're always gonna be parties wanting to take advantage of your self-inflicted weakness.

sorry for my english

BRAVO. I couldn't agree more and your english is wonderful.

[samah12]

thanks sister...i needed that push to know what to do. ..... government wise. and as for the 1st statement...true...we need to think about things we will be asked about on judgement day...

I had never even thought to email the government until the Lebanese Israili conflict last year. I was so upset by it I sent emails to anyone I could find addresses for in the government. Did it change anything, no but I felt better because I knew I had a voice and if enough people use their voice governments eventually have to listen.

[AvarAllahNoor]

You are a pessimistic sod!!!!

I can agree in part, yes the west have poured fuel on the fire but I personally don't think it is so they can stay there longer, it is to destabalise the ummah so it is up to us not to let that happen. I can't agree that it is pointless until the occupation finishes, because the country need to see a strong leader emerge before the civil war will end. If a strong leader came forward it would be reason enough to make the occupation finish. Bit of a catch 22 really.

Well the only leader who will be accepted would have to be a US puppet. So a ''strong'' leader in that sense would never prevail, unless he formed his own government. But then look at what happened to Saddam (even though he was a brute) he stopped playing ball with the yanks, and he got booted out.

[Darkseid]

If should establish a caliphate. It should be used as a multi-regional advisory body. But other than that you shouldn't use it to attack or seclude people from around the world.

Since a world government is going to be established and Allah will forbid the entire Earth to be controlled by a single faith (unless they freely and not forced to follow that faith). And still he wouldn't them to be controlled by a faith. He would want them if they follow the same faith, to follow the same faith as individuals. When god sees you. He sees you as you, not as a group of people, but as you. You are you to god and no more. Believe what you will. You are free to do that by god. But god would want you to be you. Just as you should want god to be god.

Anyways like I said there will be a global government in the future. And that government will be federal and divided into sections. The one pertaining to the Middle-East can be called the new Caliphate if the people there wish it.

But I believe the caliphate would better serve as a democratic judicial society to better serve justice and international security like the christian international laws used by the U.N. Think of it as means to establish the foundation of Islamic law jurisdiction for each judicial branch in the region to follow. Sort of like supernational unit, but it pertains to law practices rather than the union of faith. You can still associate as a union of faith, but it is rather a union of justice.

[Khan-Ghalgha]

like the christian international laws used by the U.N. Think of it as means to establish the foundation of Islamic law jurisdiction

We(muslims) really lack that, thank God for UN christian-based laws

[barney]

If Iran has captured the Sailors to exchange them for the Revolutionary Gaurds the Yanks captured in Iraq last week. They'll be waiting a long time.

Britain isnt Italy or Spain. We dont respond to that sort of behaviour.

[MTAFFI]

I find this incident to be truly amusing, Iran as usual attempting to provoke a western country. I am not the least bit worried about any of it, Iran will release the hostages because they know that it would be an act of war not to, these men were not in Iranian waters, and have not been proven to admitting so, unless you want to trust the Iranian state run television. Iran is basically a disgrace to the world and will show once again they they just like to antagonize when they release the hostages soon I am sure, if they dont then they would recieve the paralyzing effect of the US, UK and the EU, I would be suprised if they would even be able to respond militarily

[SATalha]

Why do u refer 2 the men as hostages? They are prisoners.

[England]

They are hostages. They were kidnapped from Iraqi waters at gunpoint.

[noodles]

Its just a difference of opinion.

England refers to them as hostages because according to England, the sailors were no where near Iran. Where as according SATalha, they are prisoners because the sailors had no business conducting investigation in Iranian waters.

Both country's media want to justify their actions to their own people, so it doesn't matter what you call them. Until there is definite proof of why Iran took those sailors you can't call them either, or you'd just be making a guess.

[England]

'Escalation' fear

Dr Ali Pahlavan, the executive editor of Iran News - the only independent paper in Tehran - told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the "ultra conservative" Revolutionary Guard believed that Britain and the US needed to be challenged.

"This could be part of the strategy to challenge British and American supremacy in this part of the world - which is troubling, because this could lead to confrontation and this could be a trigger and could lead to escalation".

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has backed the British call for the personnel to be released, as has the EU.

The capture took place as the UN Security Council voted unanimously in favour of further sanctions against Iran for its refusal to suspend its nuclear enrichment programme.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6495761.stm

[MTAFFI]

They are hostages. They were kidnapped from Iraqi waters at gunpoint.

exactly

[Cognescenti]

These were servicemen acting in a lawful fashion with the consent of the elected government of Iraq and the express permission of the UN Security Council. If the hostages are "tried" in a kangaroo court, the political pressure to do something about it in the UK will become enormous. If they are harmed, then it is hard to see how anything less than a military resposne would be acceptible to the British electorate. This isn't child's play. The Revolutionary Guards will be making a big mistake if they push this past the tipping point.

Perhaps they are angry a former Al Quds commander defected to the Americans? That is just too bad. This isn't going to fix that..nor is it going to reverse the UN sanctions. If they aren't careful, we will have another Archduke Ferdinand incident.

[AvarAllahNoor]

I see a pattern. Sadly all the caucasians are ganing up on one side. But you fail to see the whole situtation.

[Keltoi]

I see a patern. Sadly all the caucasians are ganing up on one side. But you fail to see the whole situtation.

All the caucasians? How do you know what their ethnicity is?, and why does that matter in the context of this discussion?

[AvarAllahNoor]

They are hostages. They were kidnapped from Iraqi waters at gunpoint.

Prove it.

[AvarAllahNoor]

All the caucasians? How do you know what their ethnicity is?, and why does that matter in the context of this discussion?

It's obvious. You don't seem to be seeing how false our governments are. You just see iran iran kill kill.

[SATalha]

Ah not this. Hey guys stik 2 da topic plz or i will close the thread.... Oh wait iam not a mod. Lol

[Keltoi]

It's obvious. You don't seem to be seeing how false you governments are. You just see iran iran kill kill.

I suppose "you" meaning all the caucasians? Since I'm not caucasian can I assume that comment wasn't directed at me? As for how "false" our governments are....this was an act by Iran, not "our" governments. If we see Iran Iran kill kill....whatever that means...shouldn't we have been "kill killing" by now?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Ah not this. Hey guys stik 2 da topic plz or i will close the thread.... Oh wait iam not a mod. Lol

It's all connected though . Plus you need more reps to be a mod :D

[AvarAllahNoor]

I suppose "you" meaning all the caucasians? Since I'm not caucasian can I assume that comment wasn't directed at me? As for how "false" our governments are....this was an act by Iran, not "our" governments. If we see Iran Iran kill kill....whatever that means...shouldn't we have been "kill killing" by now?

You've done nothing but torment them. Now you're acting all innocent?

[Keltoi]

It's all connected thoigh. Plus you need more reps to be a mod :D

What is connected? Caucasians and what? It doesn't even make any sense.

[Keltoi]

You've done nothing but torment them. Now you're acting all innocent?

Who is tormenting who here? You're tormenting me with your inability to explain your own posts.

[AvarAllahNoor]

What is connected? Caucasians and what? It doesn't even make any sense.

OK enough of the Caucasians. I didn't mean any offense. But it appear this is how this seems. Yes they've taken Brirish soldiers, why did they have recording equipment?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Who is tormenting who here? You're tormenting me with your inability to explain your own posts.

:rollseyes

[SATalha]

:phew is it me or is getting hot. Anyways iran in my opinion av the right 2 hold these men. Lets hope they find nothing and release them

[Cognescenti]

Avar;

Even if it were true that they had strayed into Iranian waters, do you believe for a second that armed Royal Marines would give themselves up willy-nilly? Did the Revolutionary Guard hail them with bullhorns and serve them with a Revolutionary arrest warrant? Get real.

Will most Americans, brown, black, white etc., etc, side with the British on this? You bet they will. Any Americans old enough to remember the Iranian hostage crisis will feel a certain resonance. And, by the way, Jimmy Carter isn't President any more. Were 15 US sailors in Iranian hands the steam would be coming out of the Pentagon right now. The only reason for keeping this low key is a recognition that this foolish move harms the Iranian cause internationally and likely strengthens moderates within Iran.

Here is hoping some cooler head in Iran steps in and slaps the Revolutioanry Guard upside the head.

[Keltoi]

Avar;

Even if it were true that they had strayed into Iranian waters, do you believe for a second that armed Royal Marines would give themselves up willy-nilly? Did the Revolutionary Guard hail them with bullhorns and serve them with a Revolutionary arrest warrant? Get real.

Will most Americans, brown, black, white etc., etc, side with the British on this? You bet they will. Any Americans old enough to remember the Iranian hostage crisis will feel a certain resonance. And, by the way, Jimmy Carter isn't President any more. Were 15 US sailors in Iranian hands the steam would be coming out of the Pentagon right now. The only reason for keeping this low key is a recognition that this foolish move harms the Iranian cause internationally and likely strengthens moderates within Iran.

Here is hoping some cooler head in Iran steps in and slaps the Revolutioanry Guard upside the head.

I still expect the hostages to be released by the end of the week, probably with a public apology in the way of a "misunderstanding".

[AvarAllahNoor]

Avar;

Even if it were true that they had strayed into Iranian waters, do you believe for a second that armed Royal Marines would give themselves up willy-nilly? Did the Revolutionary Guard hail them with bullhorns and serve them with a Revolutionary arrest warrant? Get real.

Will most Americans, brown, black, white etc., etc, side with the British on this? You bet they will. Any Americans old enough to remember the Iranian hostage crisis will feel a certain resonance. And, by the way, Jimmy Carter isn't President any more. Were 15 US sailors in Iranian hands the steam would be coming out of the Pentagon right now. The only reason for keeping this low key is a recognition that this foolish move harms the Iranian cause internationally and likely strengthens moderates within Iran.

Here is hoping some cooler head in Iran steps in and slaps the Revolutioanry Guard upside the head.

I agree with what you''ve said. Honestly I do But if you read my previous posts you'll see my objection, and WHY. - It's one thing afer another. And it's all going one way. Surely you can see that?

[AvarAllahNoor]

I still expect the hostages to be released by the end of the week, probably with a public apology in the way of a "misunderstanding".

Expect away...

[Cognescenti]

OK enough of the Caucasians. I didn't mean any offense. But it appear this is how this seems. Yes they've taken Brirish soldiers, why did they have recording equipment?

They were boarding a merchant vessel to conduct a search for contraband according to the mission assigned to them under a UN resolution. Does it really seem odd they might have a video camera to document their search? What do you think they were doing on the Shatt al Arab...looking for Iranian uranium enrichment plants in order take pictures with their secret James Bond cameras?

[Muezzin]

Situations like these are why I get seasick.

Possibly.

[AvarAllahNoor]

They were boarding a merchant vessel to conduct a search for contraband according to the mission assigned to them under a UN resolution. Does it really seem odd they might have a video camera to document their search? What do you think they were doing on the Shatt al Arab...looking for Iranian uranium enrichment plants in order take pictures with their secret James Bond cameras?

Despite the claims by the M.O.D. and the British government, there is absolutely NO evidence to suggest that the British forces were in Iraqi or International waters.

what would be the consequences if 15 iranian servicemen enter British waters?would the British coast guard just let them trespass their teritory without paying the price?

[barney]

They carry cameras to film contraband. (in this case weapons and explosives and jihadists being transported by Iran to kill iraqi civilians).

I guess that Iran might say that they are spying on the layout of the interior of Iranian merchant ships in order to learn how better to sink them....but its a long shot.

[Muezzin]

Despite the claims by the M.O.D. and the British government, there is absolutely NO evidence to suggest that the British forces were in Iraqi or International waters.

The way the waters are divided is murky to say the least. Nobody really knows, objectively speaking, whether they were in Iraqi or Iranian waters. The two countries seem to have an 'understanding' over that particular area of water, rather than a concrete map defining the borders.

[barney]

Despite the claims by the M.O.D. and the British government, there is absolutely NO evidence to suggest that the British forces were in Iraqi or International waters.

And no evidence to prove otherwise.

[Cognescenti]

I agree with what you''ve said. Honestly I do But if you read my previous posts you'll see my objection, and WHY. - It's one thing afer another. And it's all going one way. Surely you can see that?

You mean its all going one way vis a vis Iran? I would say generally that is true. The Iranians have offended, or worried, almost every potential ally they had. They now have both the Chinese and the Russians supporting sanctions. Quite a diplomatic coup by the Iranians, eh? The two chief opponents of tough sanctions have now come around because of Iranian intransigence. This stupid stunt isn't going to work either.

[barney]

But for 4 years, Iranian navy vessels have entered iraqi waters by accident and the Royal Navy has turned them away. For 4 years Royal Navy boats have accidently entered Iranian waters and the Iranians have turned them away.

Last week a dozen or so Iranian revolutionary gaurds were arrested after accidently going 250 miles inside Iraq and accidently joining Terrorist groups in order to accidently slaughter Iraqi civvys.

No coincidence honest.

[AvarAllahNoor]

You mean its all going one way vis a vis Iran? I would say generally that is true. The Iranians have offended, or worried, almost every potential ally they had. They now have both the Chinese and the Russians supporting sanctions. Quite a diplomatic coup by the Iranians, eh? The two chief opponents of tough sanctions have now come around because of Iranian intransigence. This stupid stunt isn't going to work either.

They did this the last time sanctions were made. It's nothing new and they know which side their bread is buttered!

[AvarAllahNoor]

But for 4 years, Iranian navy vessels have entered iraqi waters by accident and the Royal Navy has turned them away. For 4 years Royal Navy boats have accidently entered Iranian waters and the Iranians have turned them away.

Last week a dozen or so Iranian revolutionary gaurds were arrested after accidently going 250 miles inside Iraq and accidently joining Terrorist groups in order to accidently slaughter Iraqi civvys.
No coincidence honest.

Never happened before the illegal invasion....

[AvarAllahNoor]

In the last few years Iran has seen its neighbouring countries to the east and west invaded and occupied, they have been repeatedly threatened by the Bush/Blair Axis of aggression, and are now the victims of a media hate campaign aimed at discrediting them in advance of military action against them, Now they have to put up with US/UK warships doing god knows what in THEIR waters

[Muezzin]

And no evidence to prove otherwise.

So basically, nobody knows what the heck is going on.

[snakelegs]

this could be solved peacefully, but there are madmen on all sides. who knows what will happen?

[Muezzin]

this could be solved peacefully, but there are madmen on all sides. who knows what will happen?

In an ideal world, comedy would ensue. Alas, it might just be construed as an act of war, which falls on the wrong side of the tragedy-comedy spectrum.

[barney]

Never happened before the illegal invasion....

So are you saying that It's Britains fault that Iran is killing Iraqi civvys? Or did you just not have anything else to say about the timing and purposes of this kidnapping?

[AvarAllahNoor]

So are you saying that It's Britains fault that Iran is killing Iraqi civvys? Or did you just not have anything else to say about the timing and purposes of this kidnapping?

If these Sailors and Marines were inside Iraqi waters then the onus is on Britain to prove that they were, But Britain has refused so far to release any geographical data regarding the location where the arrest happened

Don't enter their waters, stop threatening them, and stop telling them they can't have what we have!

[Cognescenti]

If these Sailors and Marines were inside Iraqi waters then the onus is on Britain to prove that they were, But Britain has refused so far to release any geographical data regarding the location where the arrest happened

Look. If a country "arrests" foreign soldiers operating on a foreign-flagged vessel perhaps they should make a case why it is justified.

A dispassionate observer would have to agree there is a plausible explanation of why British Marines might have legitimately been in the area. The Shatt al Arab is a confusing area. It is possible both sides believe they are right, however, the inflammatory nature of the Iranian actions is alarming:

1) No representative of the UK government has been allowed to visit them
2) Press reports suggest a trial.

This reminds me of Hussein taking Western toursits hostage before GWI. That sure worked out good for him, eh?

[barney]

There is these possibilitys.

1) They were on the Iranian side and the brits are lying to try and weasel out of admitting fault.
2) They were on the Iraqi side, but cant prove it.
3) They were on the Iraqi Side and can prove it. They are not proving it because they dont want to stir up the incident more than neccessery. (I know US ships and UK subs carry tapes of radar coverage..which might or might not have recorded the positions of the boats.)

Last Time we had this sort of incident we admitted that we had got lost and it was settled peacefully, with the iranians merely throwing our soldiers blindfolded into a desert ditch and cocking their weapons in a mock excecution.

We are insisting we were on the correct side of the border this time. Why lie now?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Well I'm in need of my beauty sleep, hope to catchup with you lot tommorrow Goodnight......sweet dreams my sweeties.....

Gur Fateh

[Cognescenti]

this could be solved peacefully, but there are madmen on all sides. who knows what will happen?

Wait a minute. You can't possibly argue that Tony Blair is a madman? His government is being very restrained here. They are deliberately not inflaming the situation.

[barney]

Night avar. Sleep well. :)

[Keltoi]

Tony Blair mentioned today that he hoped the situation would be resolved in the next couple of days. If that doesn't happen, then there will be little choice but to return to the U.N. and pass more sanctions and more resolutions. If, by some reason of unexplained insanity, the Iranians refuse to return the hostages, we could see the rhetoric and the action heat up really fast. However, I expect the hostages to be returned within the week.

[snakelegs]

as far as i know, sanctions never hurt the rulers - just the people who suffer under them.

[Woodrow]

as far as i know, sanctions never hurt the rulers - just the people who suffer under them.

That is what I have seen happen in the past. The big fish in the tank never go hungry as long as there is at least one smaller fish left.

[guyabano]

this has been said before iraq war,,ur politicians claimed saddam has chemical weapons...nonsense...!!

what were the british soldiers doing there?!!
as i know britain doesnt have a land there,,,am i wrong?

try to stay in ur own country,,,if iranians are idiots,you are more than them...

go ahead bomb iran....if you can! but dont think that iran is so weak as irak...

you are worrying for ur 15 soldiers,,but 660 people,avarage,(not soldiers,babies,women,innocents) are dying in irak everyday...try to worry about them a little too...dont be sooo selfish..

.................

Well, try to stay in your own country? Duh...so what the heck are doing all the iranians who live in Germany, UK, and so on? Will you tell them also to go back to their countries? They will call you a racist !

And for the people dying in Iraq everyday, sorry mate, but most of them don't die by US neither UK guns, but they get killed by their own fellowpeople, the suicidebombers !

[AvarAllahNoor]

Tony Blair mentioned today that he hoped the situation would be resolved in the next couple of days. If that doesn't happen, then there will be little choice but to return to the U.N. and pass more sanctions and more resolutions. If, by some reason of unexplained insanity, the Iranians refuse to return the hostages, we could see the rhetoric and the action heat up really fast. However, I expect the hostages to be returned within the week.

You do alot of expecting.

Do you think the Iranians will be waiting there with their spears and catapults?

Iran are using the situation to mess with the wallets. Wait till we're waiting in petrol-lines like back in the 70s.... :D

[abdil han]

Well, try to stay in your own country? Duh...so what the heck are doing all the iranians who live in Germany, UK, and so on? Will you tell them also to go back to their countries? They will call you a racist !

And for the people dying in Iraq everyday, sorry mate, but most of them don't die by US neither UK guns, but they get killed by their own fellowpeople, the suicidebombers !

you got me wrong,,i meant uk n us soldiers,,not the people who lives there,,,if they are fighting against you,ok,,send them to their own countries...

beside,before you,,was there any suicide bomber?you invade there n destroyed all of their lifes n made them enemies to eachother....dont say that you brought democracy there,,,ur democracy killed millions of people in irak,,n in many other countries...

by the way,all the people know why are you in irak,,,oil! money! power!! you dont care about lifes ,,,

before you ,irak was better than now,,,

[AL_]

What do brittish have to do with anything, i mean whatever Americans do brits are always behind them, in the shadow. Now i remember when the brits beat up a couple of kids in Iraq and a disgustin Brit was filming it and hoping they would die, many brits are prejudice, so i think they should just stay in their country.

[AvarAllahNoor]

The whole situation has been created to increase the tension and pressure on Iran. These are the games the US/UK usually play to incite the enemy. I am not at all surprised by this, in fact it was expected. US policy is to protect Israel at any cost. The public should wake up to the reality of the situation as a lot of us do not fuly understand the machinations of the covert operations and situations crated the by CIA?Mossad etc; Expect more problems with Iran. Iran will be nuclear

[Keltoi]

You do alot of expecting.

Do you think the Iranians will be waiting there with their spears and catapults?

Iran are using the situation to mess with the wallets. Wait till we're waiting in petrol-lines like back in the 70s.... :D

Iran isn't messing with anyone's wallet. They need to sell as much oil as they have while they have it, to cover the cost of the nuclear technology they are trying to deveolop. Not to mention the effects of the sanctions on their already less than stable economy. In any event, the U.S. doesn't even get the majority of its oil from Iran. Hugo Chavez is more dangerous in that department.

[Keltoi]

The whole situation has been created to increase the tension and pressure on Iran. These are the games the US/UK usually play to incite the enemy. I am not at all surprised by this, in fact it was expected. US policy is to protect Israel at any cost. The public should wake up to the reality of the situation as a lot of us do not fuly understand the machinations of the covert operations and situations crated the by CIA?Mossad etc; Expect more problems with Iran. Iran will be nuclear

Wow, so it is the CIA and Mossad that is making the Iranian president do the things that he does?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Wow, so it is the CIA and Mossad that is making the Iranian president do the things that he does?

It is carefully planned to allow / tempt the Iranians into doing this so that the World would back another war, this time against Iran. Joe public mustn't forget the last reasons given for going to war with Iraq - the so-called long range missile capabilties. :rollseyes Why should we believe this then? AND, why are the exact map co-ordinates such a big a secret of where the incident took place? That proves what water they were in and who's at fault.

Russia and China will get an opportunity too, you think you can take them on too? Thiink again

[samah12]

Are we forgetting the bombs in London, bombs in Sharm el Sheikh, the 6 french muslim men on hajj shot in Saudi last month because of their nationality, airoplanes flying into buildings, women bombed buying oil in the market in Iraq:

Hands up if your country is innocent..........I bet nobody put their hand up!
:cry:

[Keltoi]

It is carefully planned to allow / tempt the Iranians into doing this so that the World would back another war, this time against Iran. Joe public mustn't forget the last reasons given for going to war with Iraq - the so-called long range missile capabilties. :rollseyes Why should we believe this then? AND, why are the exact map co-ordinates such a big a secret of where the incident took place? That proves what water they were in and who's at fault.

Russia and China will get an opportunity too, you thibk you can take then on too? Thiink again

There is no secret about the map coordinates. This area has been in dispute for quite awhile. British and Iranian vessels see each other all the time. There haven't been any incidents until now. The question is why now?

Why should you believe what? Iranians took British soldiers hostage. It doesn't matter if you "believe" it, it happened, even according to the innocent Iranians. Are you suggesting the British sent soldiers out there to get kidnapped to start an international incident that would justify war? Yeah, that sounds like something Tony Blair would be very interested in doing...:rollseyes